Red Sox Discussing Shortstop Options

Well, I guess the Braves candidates are Escobar, Martin Prado, or Diory Hernandez.

I think JJ Hardy would be a perfect fit for fenway. One thing is for sure the Sox need to find a suitable offensive player to put in the lineup. With Drew and Ortiz non existent in the lineup right now the Sox can't afford to have a SS who is just good with the glove. I know its never over in the AL east but the Yanks could pull away real quick and the Rays are still there to play spoilers or even make a run at the division.

The Sox need help though, they just need to man up and pull the trigger with their prospects.

I think j.j hardy would be the best option for both the present and future. What would he cost??

Escobar? Yeah right. I mean i would love to have Dustin Pedroia, but we aren't getting him. Outside of that, idk who would be worth 3 1/2 years of Yunel. The braves have no one else to play SS and Esco is a stud.

MAYBE its Diory Hernandez. Prado can't really play SS.
But its definately NOT Esco.

"Just speculation--could the Braves' shortstop be Yunel"

In the words of Ted Stevens, NO!!!. No way the Braves move Escobar. It could be Diory Hernandez, Brandon Hicks (I have a suspicion it's him), Martin Prado (god I can't imagine how much he'd butcher the position, the Red Sox wouldn't SERIOUSLY consider playing him at short), Omar Infante when he gets healthy, uhhh I have no idea who the mystery SS from the Braves is. Probably Hicks. But it'd take a pretty big return to get Hicks. I have him at our number 9 prospect (behind Gorkys, Hanson, and Locke, so 6th now). Can Van Pope play SS? He's like.. the youngest infielder on our AAA team.

They could get Tejada for nothing.

No, Hick's bat might, i repeat MIGHT, be ready, but his defense is horrible.

I think you're confusing him with Van Pope.
Posted by: bravesfansc | June 08, 2009 at 06:59 PM

Nah, his defense is great. he can run too. He just can't hit at all.

bravesfansc,
You're completely wrong. He plays an above-average major league SS right now. INCREDIBLE defender for being in AA. Van Pope is also defensively talented, but he's a 3B and can't hit worth a lick. If Hicks can cut down on the strikeouts he'll be a pretty damn good MLB shortstop.

Bard, Lowrie, and Penny for JJ Hardy!

I'm a braves fan and I watch them every night I think if they can get anything for yunel take it he has already peaked he isnt getting any better and he is not a stud! He's 26 soon to be 27 sure we have him under control for 3 1/2 years but thats the only good thing. His average has went down every year and he making more and more errors hes just not as great as everyone is making him out to be. Look at his numbers they are comparable to Todd Walker, thats not sayin alot. if the Braves could get Lowrie(when avaiable), Delcarmen, and Aaron Bates to it!

What about Hu on the dodgers? he is a defensive wiz, but cant hit. He isnt going to get a chance in LA. He wouldnt cost a top prospect like Buchholtz, but maybe a pen arm? Im not really sure how high Boston is on Manny Delcarmen, but could that work? I repeat, i dont know their system AT ALL, but i know they were talking about trading MDC.

the red sox are high on jed lowrie, and none of the shortstops (listed/available) are much of an upgrade. they won't take on a big contract(tejeda, wilson, etc.) becasue that money would be added to the 9 million owed to lugo, who would in turn be released (a big grin on my face while typing "lugo released"). i don't know much about escobar of the braves, but looking at his stats/age...he would cost a decent 2-3 prospects. and lowrie would be without a position.

again,(not knowing much about escobar, or the braves ss depth, or their needs)...a trade of maybe jed lowrie, michael bowden, and a third prosect (low-A, hi-A level) for escobar and franceur (spell check?).

and on another front...great news! ortiz got eye drops today! look out american league pitchers!

With Drew and Ortiz non existent in the lineup right now the Sox can't afford to have a SS who is just good with the glove. I know its never over in the AL east but the Yanks could pull away real quick and the Rays are still there to play spoilers or even make a run at the division.

The Sox need help though, they just need to man up and pull the trigger with their prospects.

Posted by: yanks09 | June 08, 2009 at 06:46 PM

Are you serious? The Sox are currently a half game back of the Yanks. Even if the Yanks sweep this upcoming series, they would be 4 games back in early JUNE. No need to panic right now, its not as if the Yanks are some juggernaut. And last I checked, the Yankees have yet to beat the Sox this season.

"With Drew and Ortiz non existent in the lineup right now the Sox can't afford to have a SS who is just good with the glove"

Ummmm...what? Ortiz, given, is useless in the lineup, but have you looked at ANYTHING past Drew's batting average? His OPS is actually higher than Pedroia's right now. He had a really bad week last week, but other than that, Drew's been incredibly productive at the plate this season.

Even in the just "right now" mindset, he's doing well. In the last week, he's posted an OPS of 1.298. With Varitek's inexplicable run of adequacy at the plate, Ortiz and the SS position are really the only serious weak points in the lineup.

Guy on the ajc blog says he talked to his cousin who works in the Red Sox FO and they are NOT looking at Escobar. It's a back-up type. This dude and David O'Brien both agree it's probably Diory Hernandez, who hasn't looked bad in his first MLB stint (but hasn't looked like an every-day player). I doubt he'd cost anything of consequence. Some sort of crappy player or mid-level prospect.

Links:
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/06/08/hanson-flashes-of-brilliance/comment-page-7/#comment-130821

And DOB:
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/06/08/hanson-flashes-of-brilliance/comment-page-7/#comment-130827

i've never heard of diory hernandez. so why trade for a ss who would be 3rd on the depth chart (behind lowrie and nick green).

and it really isn't much fun going on mlbtraderumors and talking the sox trading for a 3rd/4th string shortstop.

0bessions, drew is hitting a solid 261, with an OPS of 870. what a middle of the order bat...

lol at someone thinking an OPS of 870 isnt a middle of the order bat.

also: Jed Lowrie is kind of awesome why the hell would they be looking for a long term replacement?

I also like watching Red Sox fans act like the sky is falling when their team has the most wins in the AL. They apparently never got the memo that its impossible to go 162-0 and act like any kind of losses are season-ending.

Escobar will never see 15 to 20 homers a season he's too impatient he grounds into too many double plays he makes to many errors he is not an A+ def SS he has a A+ arm but he boots the easy plays and hes too much of a hot dog. Sure he hits .300 but only 10 homers to 24 dp's and he is the most impatient hitter in the bigs I just think he's already peaked and isnt getting any better I wouldnt be surprised if he if another one of the players that say they are 27 but hes really 30 to 31......

Justin, have you seen Escobar? No way he's 3 or 4 years older than 27. He actually looks younger than 27 IMO

The Brewers have a young shortstop at AAA named Alcides Escobar who is said to be fantastic defensively but probably won't equal Hardy's power. That said, the Brewers won't let Hardy go cheaply. They still have him for this season and next before he's a free agent. They would probably want a good pitcher (not Brad Penny) who could step into the rotation immediately for a playoff push this season.

how can u say hardy isnt good? He is a .266 average(eh), 20Hrs(fantastic for a SS), 157 hits, 30 2B, 77RBIs, and a 327 OBP. his defense has been above average. he is anything other than a 'crappy shortstop'

bostonbelongstome,

haha. you're not serious are you? the absolute BEST that Lowrie could aspire to would be a AAAA player. maybe a craig counsell type for a couple years.

Hardy's per 162 game avg is .266 with 81 runs, 22HR and 77RBI's and 30 doubles.

Lowrie would be lucky to hit 22HR's in his ENITRE career.

Sometimes some red sox fans just need to be slapped into reality.

Omar Vizquel for Daniel Bard.

if the sox did trade for hardy, that would be his 4 1/2 million this year (plus he is arb. eligible after this year), plus the 9 million this year and next for eating lugo's contract. so that's 13 1/2 million for a shortstop with a .310 obp. in addition, you have to give up a couple prospects. no thank you.

as for hardy's 162 game avg....tell me, what is david ortiz's (ortiz'?) 162 game average? what have you done for me lately...

i'm pretty sure lowrie can do a decent enough job at short. (and i'll take that craig "mr. post-season" counsel type).

course, lowrie is no jason donald....

Rangers want arms? Sox need a ss. How's about......

Penny, Lugo and one of the decent arms prospects (i.e. bowden, brad, ect) for Michael Young.

Sox get rid of Lugo who gets a change of scenary. Rangers get a vet arm whos's fairly cheap and a high end prospect.

Sox also shed enoguh salary with Lugo and Penny to take on Young's and get a good fielding and hitting ss who had issues with management earlier this year.

philsWSChamps... Get over yourself. Hardy is batting 224 w/ a 310 OBP. Bard touches 100 on the radar and is a future closer, Lowrie has been hampered by injuries and is a servicable SS, and Penny is a # 3 starter in the NL."

I watched Penny in LA. his wonderful 08 season, with his 5.85ERA, coming off a 6.27ERA. his WHIP is 1.6, he gives up 11.6 hits/9, his ERA+ is a whopping 82. he is old, washed up, and shouldnt be a starter. Lowrie is nothing special, accept it. Bard looks like a stud, but he needs to do it for a full yr in the majors.

also, you think that Hardys average will be 80 points lower this yr than last? or his OPS+ almost 40 points lower? at age 26? there is a reason you should not work in baseball or anything that has to do with stats. with a young guy, you must look at stats from the previous yr to have a good answer.

lakersdodgersyankee4life...you just contradicted yourself.

jed lowrie is only 25 (a "young guy"). so let's go back to last years stats.

project his 2008 season over 162 games...

.245 avg./.327 obp / 4 hr.

not so great...but wait, there's more...

47 doubles, 87 rbi, and 0 errors.

that's pretty good. (some would even say, something special).

not to mention he was clutch.

don't get me wrong, i would look to see an upgrade at shortstop. i'm not sayin lowrie is a future hall of famer...but jj hardy is not much of an upgrade.

boston belongs to me, think of it this way. Is there any chance that Lowrie has 0 errors? sorry, he isnt jeter when he came up. and if you think that he will drive in 87 runs and have almost 50 doubles? i dont. Hardy has proven over 5 yrs that he can do this consistanly. JJ would be a very high upgrade over Lowrie.

Remember this as you post a responce... Boston fans have been offering Lowrie in every package on this post. However, not one brew crew fan wants JJ to leave. Do you think that is a coincidence?

escobar for bay, that would be the only way that escobar could be traded.

hardy has not put up numbers for 5 years (well, techinally he has). i mean "numbers". he's been the main-stay SS in Mil since '07. so you could say 2 good years, and than what? you can't argue how bad he has been this year, so far. he's not an on-base guy, which the sox covet. he's arb. eligible (approx. 5-6 million for next year?), for a guy with a .669 ops. i can honestly say i have never seen him play. maybe i'm missing something. but having watched lowrie play last year (when he was healthty), i think some of the 'posters' bashing lowrie are missing something. i would prefer him as the utility inf., but the sox brass really like him. and they know more than me...barely, of course.

as for bard, they are not "showcasing" him. he had no competition in the minors. he absolutely dominated. so they promoted him, so he can progress against major league hitters. i do think paps walks in a couple years, and 2 years as a set-up man is perfect grooming. he does need a second pitch, though. reminds me, a little, of k-rod with the '02 angels.

i do, though, think they are showcasing buchholz in AAA. he ,also, is dominating, padding his stats...and his value has never been higher.

As a Braves fan it better not be Escobar no matter what. The RedSox do not have anything that would make it worth while. Looking at it from the RedSox side of the deal I would work on something with the Pirates to bring both Adam Laroche and Jack Wilson to Boston. They would get a good defensive shortstop and a solid first baseman. Move Youkilis to third and let Adam play first. This is all ofcourse if Ortiz really isnt going to pull out of his slump.

"I'm a braves fan and I watch them every night I think if they can get anything for yunel take it he has already peaked he isnt getting any better and he is not a stud!"

If Escobar played in the AL, he'd be the best SS in the AL not named Jeter. And, only a paltry 0.5 WAR separated Escobar and Jeter last year. He's easily better than Hardy. He's the 5th best SS in MLB, behind only Reyes, Hanley, Rollins, and Jeter.

Oh yeah in this plan Lowrie becomes the DH.

Posted by: Phillip_Cannon | June 08, 2009 at 10:18 PM

I meant Lowell

"as for bard, they are not "showcasing" him. he had no competition in the minors. he absolutely dominated. so they promoted him, so he can progress against major league hitters. i do think paps walks in a couple years, and 2 years as a set-up man is perfect grooming. he does need a second pitch, though. reminds me, a little, of k-rod with the '02 angels.

i do, though, think they are showcasing buchholz in AAA. he ,also, is dominating, padding his stats...and his value has never been higher."

Inside info or wishful thinking?

Look, basically, you are saying the Sox are showcxasing Buchholz, whom they have refused to trade, and not Bard, whom they have offered in a trade already, and for a lesser player, too.

Papelbon might walk after 2011. But he also might not. That he hasn't signed the team friendly deal in mid-2009 is completely irrelevant. It's not like he needs ot sign it 18 months in advance or anything.

AS for Bard "dominating", yes he was very effecxtinve in Pawtucket, but we are talking about 16 innings. Not a very telling sample size. It was only two years ago that he looked like he would be a first round bust. He's only faced 58 hitters in AAA ball. A little soon to be deciding he is through with that league. CRaig Hansen looked pretty dominant in his first 15 IP of professional ball, too. Heck, Devern Hansack has been dominating the International League for a couple years now.

Bowden and Buchholz have also dominated in AAA this year, and both have done so for much, much more than 16 innings (58 and 62 respectively). So why didn't they get promoted, too?

"as for bard, they are not "showcasing" him. he had no competition in the minors. he absolutely dominated. so they promoted him, so he can progress against major league hitters. i do think paps walks in a couple years, and 2 years as a set-up man is perfect grooming. he does need a second pitch, though. reminds me, a little, of k-rod with the '02 angels."

I re-read this sentence.

You do realize that Bard would be allowed to work on a second pitch in AAA before trying it out in MLB, right? In fact, it would actually make sense to use it their first and keep his clock down.

And maybe when he is using this new pitch, he wouldn't be so compeltely dominant? ;)

After the McLouth trade, which came out of nowhere, who knows what will happen. I could see the three way deal with Boston and Milwaukee.

Why not Tulowitzki a change would do him some good. I know the Rockies would welcome any pitching.

tulowitzki....interesting. hadnt considered that. wonder what it would take. his value has to be reletivly low now as he has been struggling so far.

Penny is not a #3 starter and there is no way in heck they would trade Hardy for him.

Hardy is one of the more valuable SS in baseball regardless of his slow April. If he were traded to the AL he'd be the best SS in that league having combined for 9.4 WARP over the past 2 seasons.

That trade proposal giving up a potential top of the rotation starter in Bucholz, plus giving Atlanta a closer they dearly need in MDC to Atlanta for amother OF they don't need in McClung, the useless Frnchy and a AAA SS in Escobar that has yet to prove he can hit MLB pitching is ludicrous. Boston would never make that trade, it favors Atlanta all the way, even the Brewers get hammered.

I'm guessing he thought that was Alcides Escobar who is a top prospect of the Brewers.

McClung plays OF? I gues its about time he stopped pitching.

notin,

Funny thing is, the comment you are refering to and the Jason Donald for Brad penny trade proposal was the same user if I remember correctly.

Notin,

Clarification. I meant that he was complaining about how much more value Donald has as a unproven major league player over Penny. I meant how you were talking about the trade value issue.

I know no one is going to believe me but my uncle is good friends with one of Frank Wrens assistants and i had my uncle ask him and he told my uncle that the mystery short stop is Martin Prado. So i guess the braves feel that Prado can play short stop on an every game basis