Braves Could Add Bat; Won't Mortgage Future

"If not, the Braves will look to improve the team next year and beyond."

Sound like if they don't think they can win, Vazquez might be traded for prospects.

i hope were still in it, but if not lets trade some of these players who would get us some good young help. I like the Vazquez, he could bring us quite a bit in return.

Scott Hairston for Cole Rohrbough and Edgar Osuna. Get it done.

"Scott Hairston for Cole Rohrbough and Edgar Osuna. Get it done."

You're crazy. No way I'd give up a pitcher of Rohrbough's ceiling for Hariston.

"could Swisher be expendable with Duncan doing well in AAA?"

I think the Hinske acquisition makes Duncan available, if anything. But they're counting on Swisher as their every-day RF. So probably not.

Jose Guillen for Francouer.

johns,
we all want atlanta to acquire some hitting (actually i would be just fine if we were to just dfa francoeur and put diaz in right), but they are making a wise move in waiting. price tags drop. also, dont forget the braves have already made a trade to get mclouth. saying the braves dont make moves is false. the braves have a few options:

1.package francoeur and kj together to a team that wants salary relief and are willing to take a chance on the 2 players finding success in a new organization(personally i think st. louis would trade ankiel or ludwick since they are both having down years).

2. trade one of their 5 starters once the 6th starter (tim hudson) proves healthy.

3. trade escobar, who has fallen on hard times with the organization.

something else that has not been mentioned around here is the braves have a loogy surplus, which i know was a hot item last year at trade deadline. maybe one of o'flaherty or logan can be added to one of the packages to sweeten the deals.

any of those options could probably net a good to great hitter, but only time will tell what atlanta will do.

on a personal note: i think trading escobar is downright ludicrous so i do not support my #3 scenario.

Let me first say that I'll believe Wren wont mortgage the future to stay in the race when I see it. The past few years have been difficult as a Braves fan as we see our team struggle to stay afloat while trading many highly talented prospects in a failing effort to keep our amazing string of success going.

That said, I think we actually do have a shot to make a couple of moves and be in a good position for a stretch run. Not necessarily because we have the best team but because the whole damn division sucks at the moment. The only thing I hate is that players like KJ and Francoeur have seen their value dip so low I'm afraid we wont be able to get much in return. The Braves seem willing to deal one of Soriano/Gonzalez (both could close for a lot of teams), KJ, Escobar, Vazquez, Francoeur, and some prospects to get improvements. That is a lot of value on the market so I think teams will come calling. Depending on whether we can get multiple deals in line (which is why I'm not so sure they wont mortgage the future away again), I think we could win the division.

The real question is, should we try? It's possible we fall short again and certainly possible we give up to much to try and stay in the race again. If we keep the current course, by 2011 I think we could be the best team in the division again if the players continue to develop. This is really a matter of philosophy, is it better to get into the playoffs now at the cost of a brighter future or do you want consistent 85-90 win seasons and a few playoff runs?

Hairston would be a perfect fit for the braves only if they moved McLouth to RF, since Hairston plays LF/CF, or I guess that could just play him in LF. Padres wouldnt say no to Cole, but they want near ready MLB pitching, the lower farm system was vastly underrated prior to the season, but the upper farm is as barren as predicted. So I think if the Braves had a mid level arm (better then Jojo Reyes) in the upper system they would love that more then Rohrbough.

I agree with that ,Airman, but the problem is the Braves have no top of the system arms worth it. They obviously wouldn't trade Hanson. I guess the Padres could get Parr or Marek, bu those guys are back end of the rotation pitcher's, and the Padres have a ton of those. The only guy that would fit is Kris Medlen, but I saw his first 2-3 starts before they moved him to the bullpen and was very unimpressed. He couldn't find the zone and was very shaken and flustered.

I think you are overvaluing Hairston their Future619, he is good, but not good enough to warrant a top prospect. I think a solid projected 3 pitcher in return would be what should be expected. But they dont seem to have one like that in the minors, unless I missed someone.

I dont know if he's availible or what he could cost cause he's having a breakout year but, what about Choo from the Indians.

You're crazy. No way I'd give up a pitcher of Rohrbough's ceiling for Hariston."

Silly of me to think the Braves would want a 29 year old MLB LF who mashes lefties and is under control for a year and a half and hitting .317 with a .924 OPS this year for a 22 year old minor league pitcher with a 5.27 ERA in A ball, especially when Atlanta's rotation and farm is already filled with quality starters.

Posted by: Future619 | July 02, 2009 at 04:37 PM

Two things, Hairston is hitting .309 with a 904 OPS and is NOT signed through next year, so you would be trading those guys for a few month rental and giving up on a pitcher based on A Ball stats is about as wise as heralding a A ball pitcher as the next Nolan Ryan...Hairston for Rohrbough and Osuna? I'll pass

Choo will cost have a feeling James, at least much more than Frenchy and what mid level guy the Braves might be thinking of including possibly.

Choo, at 401 OBP, 10HR and 46 RBI is middle of the order material and under club control for 4 more years beyond 2009. I would not rule out the Tribe asking for Hansen even.

I want Choo in Atlanta. He will be expensive, but we need his everyday output. The Indians may request Gonzo and a position/pitching prospect in return. The fact that he is cheap and thier 4 hole hitter (I believe) he won't come cheap.

Rohrbough is a potentaial #3 and isn't a top prospect. He wasn't ranked in the top 100 by BA or ESPN coming into the year, and that was before he got rocked as a 22 year old pitcher in pitcher friendly high A ball in the FSL. Rohrbough was ranked as the Braves 6th and 8th best prospects by BA and ESPN. He has major questions about his 3rd pitch which is a change up, he drops his arm slot causing his slider to flatten out and lose velocity on his heater.

I'll consent that Medlen might not be as awful as the #s, but he has yet to find his control. 16 walks to 25 Ks in 26 innings for a guy without great stuff and who relies on throwin strikes. He was also rated lower than Rohrbough.

What a great package put together by BravesFan. Lets take all of ATL's trash and give it to SD for one of the better first basemen in the game. I applaud you BravesFan.

Rohrbough is a potentaial #3 and isn't a top prospect. He wasn't ranked in the top 100 by BA or ESPN coming into the year, and that was before he got rocked as a 22 year old pitcher in pitcher friendly high A ball in the FSL. Rohrbough was ranked as the Braves 6th and 8th best prospects by BA and ESPN. He has major questions about his 3rd pitch which is a change up, he drops his arm slot causing his slider to flatten out and lose velocity on his heater.

I'll consent that Medlen might not be as awful as the #s, but he has yet to find his control. 16 walks to 25 Ks in 26 innings for a guy without great stuff and who relies on throwin strikes. He was also rated lower than Rohrbough.

Posted by: Future619 | July 02, 2009 at 05:31 PM

In 2007, when Tommy Hanson was at Myrtle Beach, where Rohrbough is now, Tommy Hanson wasn't rated in the Braves top 10 prospects. In fact, Jo-Jo Reyes and Matt Harrison were in that top 10. Not saying Rohrbough is in Hanson's league, but basing minor league talent on Baseball America or ESPN's rankings is pretty faulty, especially when it comes to pitching.

Here is why talking to Braves fans is so frustrating. They overrate every player they have. That deal wouldn't get you Heath Bell, let alone a top 3 first baseman who is 27 and hits 40 home runs with GG defense.

Maybe because around 15 years ago you guys traded an All Star, Silver Slugging 1st baseman who led the league in HR's the previous season for Vince Moore, Donnie Elliot and Melvin Nieves....How did that work out for ya?

Future619,

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. First of all, Rohrbough's best breaking pitch is a knucklecurve and I've never heard anything about him throwing a slider, so I don't know where you're getting that from. Second, I think its become pretty clear to anyone who has watched him that Medlen was incredibly underrated coming into the season because no one realized he had added a great change-up during the offseason. You keep pointing to his major league numbers as if they are the only thing that matters, but Medlen completely tore up the International League to the tune of a 5-0 record, 1.19 ERA, .796 WHIP, 10.5 K/9, and 4.4 K/BB. This coming off a great performance in AA and the AFL last season. Your contention that he doesn't have great stuff is also clearly ill-informed. He's always been a strikeout pitcher, he's throws 5 different, and he gets great movement on all of them. I'm trying to find the chart I saw of his average horizontal movement of each pitch, but rest assured its very impressive.

Also, Hanson was a 20 year old kid in 2007 who still had a lot of projection. Rohrbough is 22 with no projection. Hanson put up much better #s as well as a 20 year old.

@Bravesfan: Thats the kind of thing that gets fans bashed. And I will figure you were joking.

@Future: Rohrbough is having a tough time, but if you look at scouting reports about him you would be shocked, he has good stuff, just needs time to refine it. Its too early to make a call on him for what is upside/ceiling is. But at the same time I will say again, the Padres are in desperate need of arms in the high minors not low minors.

@Tomahawk: I agree, low minors are a crap shoot no matter the prospect, they are a prospect until they prove it in the majors.

Bell's the ML saves leader with a 1.34 ERA who has great stuff. Trading him for a train wreck in Francouer, a first baseman with no power who has a career .269 avg and .742 OPS in Kotchman, a 33 year old expensive pitcher when the Padres won't compete for awhile and have no payroll, and maybe a prospect. Oh, or Medlen, a guy who is far from a sure thing. No way.

No prospects are sure things. Oh, and Medlen just got ranked as the #43 prospect in all of baseball yesterday by
Project Prospect. You're getting way too hung up on preseason rankings.

Project Prospect? LOL do I even have to say something about some site no one's heard of? I could go make a site right now and my site would probably be as recognizeable and known as Project Prospect.

@nixa37: I havent seen that list yet, do you have a link?

@future: There is no point in making that kind of statement about Bell. The Padres are looking for pitching, and are not likely to trade Bell, so its irrelevant about package for him.

@tomahawk: And the Padres got Adrian for Adam Eaton, whats your point. It doesnt mean the Padres are going to give him away.

This is the first year Hairston has gotten regular playing time. But if Braves fans are content with Garrett Anderson and Matt Diaz over Scott Hairston, then why are we even having this conversation?

@ Kevin Mitchel is Batman

Braves already have there 1st baseman of the future in 19yr old Freddy Freeman, the RF of the future is another 19yr old Jason Heyward, and possibly the LF of the future is 21yr old Cody Johnson. The Braves don't need OF, pitching, or 1B prospects but they have nothing up the middle especially 3B.

Posted by: bravoboy10 | July 02, 2009 at 06:12 PM

That's alot of faith in a bunch of low level minor leaguers...the Braves don't need to look at prospects to fill needs, they just need to get the best talent available to them. The odds are very good that no more than one of those guys will ever be an above average major leaguer.

Haha at the guy suggesting Medlen wouldn't be worth Hairston. You are joking right? He had a rough go in start #1 but the guy is a bona fide #3 pitcher in the future. No way the Braves trade him unless they get a stud back, and no Hairston is not that stud.
Then as for as Rohrbough how about you bother to read a scouting report and then you would know why we don't want to just hand him over. You said Hanson was projectable, so is Rohrbough. Doubt he turns into an ace but he has an extremely high ceiling and trading him now is selling low

Austin, Francoeur has NO VALUE...he's mentioned in every Braves fans package because even they don't want him.

@jfish: I havent once said that he is worth a Hanson, in fact I am sure that I said that he isnt worth a top prospect, just a solid projected 3 pitcher. A 3 isnt a top prospect.

@future: They feel find with them if it cost too much to acquire Hairston, cause they dont see Hairston as the player to push them over the top. He would be a nice addition and upgrade but not push them over the top. If they could get him without giving up a high ceiling prospect they more then likely will do it. But if cost too much they wont. Its about value this year vs value over time. The Braves are another mid market team like the Padres and have to protect their farm as such.

Morton would have been ideal for Hairston before he was traded. Not a upside arm, but a solid 3-4 arm that is major league ready. But I dont know the Braves system well enough to say if there are any other like him in the upper minors.

In other words the Padres and Braves are not a great match up for this trade.

Rohrbough is an excellent prospect. Let's take a look at someone who actually knows what he's talking about thinks about him. Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus:

7. Cole Rohrbough, LHP
DOB: 5/23/87
Height/Weight: 6-3/205
Bats/Throws: L/L
Drafted/Signed: 22nd Round, 2006, Western Nevada Community College
2008 Stats: 4.94 ERA at Low-A (58.1-55-31-76), 8.70 DERA; 3.41 at High-A (31.2-27-8-28), 6.90 DERA
Last Year's Ranking: 9

Year in Review: A high-ceiling left-hander who struggled early in the year due to a number of minor but persistent injuries, he showed the kind of stuff late in the year to retain his prospect status.
The Good: It's hard not to get excited about Rohrbough's combination of size, athleticism, and power stuff from the left side. He sits at 90-93 mph with a boring, heavy fastball, but his best pitch is a hard curve that is equally effective whether he drops it into the strike zone or buries it in the dirt. He's aggressive, likes pitching inside, and has a good feel for setting up hitters.
The Bad: While Rohrbough flashes a good changeup at times, he can also lose the feel for it in either direction—either overthrowing the pitch or tipping it off with slow arm action. He can rush his delivery and get his arm ahead of his leg drive, which leads to an inconsistent release point and control issues.
Fun Fact: Only eight players have ever been selected out of Western Nevada Community College, and five of those have been selected by the Braves in the last three years.
Perfect World Projection: A solid number-three starter with some star potential.
Glass Half Empty: It's possible that the changeup doesn't come around and some minor shoulder issues become a bigger issue, relegating him to the bullpen.
Path To The Big Leagues: It's a good time to be a starter in the Braves system, although Rohrbough is probably at least two years away.
Timetable: Rohrbough will return to High-A Myrtle Beach this year, but the Braves feel he could be ready for Double-A by midseason if he continues to progress.

86 mets,
why are you trolling a braves conversation? and the only counterpoint you have in your argument is i got the name wrong?.....rich. make a real point or dont bother typing.

a few teams have asked about francoeur. while i agree that he has no trade value, that doesnt mean he cant be packaged in a trade. there have been much worse players traded by the braves (tony pena, jr).

rosterbation feels good and any braves fan would be an idiot to not rosterbate without francoeur in their mind (and his turkey underwear).

Apparently you don't know what projectable in the scouting world in terms of body size means. It means guys that have projectable bodies have a good chance to add velocity and develop a better fastball.

Posted by: Future619 | July 02, 2009 at 06:29 PM

So a 6'3" Lefty wouldn't be "projectable"? I guess he can't develop any more because he's not 6'6".

Projectable Body: It means they have a frame that still allows size (ie muscle) to be added. It doesnt imply size in general, but say a player is 6-2 and 180, but the average person 6-2 is 205 or something, he would have a projectable frame.

Sorry 86, I should clarify. He's projecable in the terms of developing into a good ML pitcher but not projectable in adding MPH to his fastball. If you're tall and lanky when young, you have a good chance to add velo when you add strength and fill out. The lankiness gives you more room for muscles and strength.

@Nixa: Thanks for the link, I hadnt seen it yet. But its basically the same as all other.

@Bravesfan...the escobar/frenchy trade actually makes some sense, as Frenchy is being packaged with a much more valuable piece. I don't think the Sox would take frenchy and give up drew in the same deal though, espescailly if you have them giving up Bard and Lowrie already.

I'd trade for Willingham before Hairston to be honest, when you factor in trade value and consistency I like Willingham.
Also future you should have said he doesn't have a projectable body because his arm is very much projectable, there is a difference. And to knock him for the negatives is dumb, all A ball pitchers have question marks going forward even the best pitching prospects

Braves could try to get V-Mart from the Tribe, but then they would actually have to open up with top prospects and maybe work a 3 way trade with someone else to involve Kotchman.

V-Mart would be a brute at 1B and give some decent backup catcher for Atlanta and allow them to move Ross for maybe a decent haul since Ross seems to have re established his value quite nicely this year with the bat.

Vasquez is only 32, with his arsenal he could have 8 good years left in him easily.

Posted by: bravoboy10 | July 02, 2009 at 06:47 PM

Where did Vazquez come into conversation? No chance the Braves trade him, he's an ace and signed for next season already. The only reason he was acquired so cheaply is his basic stats (era, w-l record) have been average at best the past couple of years but his peripherals have always been excellent. I was mocked during the off-season when I said he would be an ace lite this year due to improved defense behind him, playing for cox, and pitching in turner instead of the cell. Well looks like i was right

Don't see the Indians moving VMart and I wouldn't want to trade the prospects needed to get him

Bard isn't going anywhere have a feeling, barring a blockbuster move for a young impact bat, like Hanley Ramirez, Adrian Gonzalez etc.. Bard is the closer of the Sox future and hedge against Papelbon in future contract negotiations.

"Don't see the Indians moving VMart and I wouldn't want to trade the prospects needed to get him"

Also, another important thing to consider is that the Tribe is going to (rightfully) price him as a catcher, while the Braves are going to use him as a 1Bman because of McCann. Catchers are worth more than 1B of equal offensive production because of positional advantage. No dice IMO.

"If it's just Lowrie and a prospect, it has to be Bowden not a RP"

Yeah, I have to agree with this.

"but you didnt answer the question: why are you trolling a braves post? stirring the poop pot i guess."

Not every non Braves fan who comments on a Braves post *on a site who covers all 30 teams* is a troll.

Some people like baseball and trade rumors as a whole,and don't only read rumors concerning their own team, myself included.

"'86 METS,
you're just wrong. and the last point you made is absurd. if the braves were to deal escobar, it's most definitely NOT looking to next year (considering escobar is under team control for quite some time). why would that be looking to next season?"

Most teams that are trying to reach the playoffs in the current season don't trade their starting SS at the deadline...espescially if they don't have a guy lined up as a replacement. That would be more of an offseason move. If they trade away Escobar, it certainly would be a sign that they are building towards the future and not trying to compete this year.

Trading Dye for Frenchy and KJ is a "fantasy" as you say. If even you realize that it will never happen, why waste the time typing it. It's just stupid to even bring it up.

I guess I didn't realize only braves fans are allowed to read this post since it mentions the Braves. "Trolling" in my opinion would be done on a Braves site. I don't post an DOB's blog or Talking Chop, as that would be "trolling". This blog is for fans of every team, a neutral blog if you will, and gives fans of all teams an opportunity to discuss legitimate rumors (not Dye for Frenchy). If you only want to talk to Braves fans, find a Braves blog. If you want to talk about fairy tale trades, find an elementary school.

'86 METS,
you're just wrong. and the last point you made is absurd. if the braves were to deal escobar, it's most definitely NOT looking to next year (considering escobar is under team control for quite some time). why would that be looking to next season?

and, like i said, the dye scenario was strictly a scenario (or a fantasy) and just mirrored my point. in no way do i think the whitesox would do that deal (which i stated in the post).

but you didnt answer the question: why are you trolling a braves post? stirring the poop pot i guess.

Posted by: ryan c | July 02, 2009 at 07:07 PM

If the Braves made any trade to the White Soxx, I would like to see it involve Gordon Beckham in return. Frenchy, KJ, Escobar, and Prospect for
Beckham and Podsednik.

ORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR,

get back Adam Laroche from Pittsburg. He used to be my next door neighboor when he played for Atl. The pirates would probably take Kotchman and Frenchy for him cuz they suck at trades. Laroche is a low salary guy, GG calibar, and a solid hitter.
P.S. He also wants out of Pittsburg

agreed melonis. just speaking to 86 mets. he seems to be here just to start mess.

Posted by: ryan c | July 02, 2009 at 07:17 PM

I guess I'm just starting a mess since I think Dye for Frenchy is unrealistic.

this was 4 86 mets
(msg)

Posted by: Austin | July 02, 2009 at 07:18 PM

Austin Dohrn why are you so retarted

whos austin dohrm

@ bravesfan22193

I know Vasquez isn't going anywhere, i hope very much that he doesn't. My comment was in response to someone who said he was getting old and wasn't a long term guy.