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By Ben Nicholson-Smith [July 8, 2009 at 1:49pm CST]
Links for Wednesday afternoon...
- WEEI.com's Alex Speier reports that the Red Sox signed two international players named Alcantara to six-figure bonuses, but they are unrelated and neither one is related to former Red Sox player Izzy Alcantara. Mario Alcantara and Raul Alcantara are both right-handed pitchers.
- The Baltimore Sun reports that the Red Sox signed Johns Hopkins graduate Chez Angeloni as a free agent.
- Keith Law tells Patrick Newman of NPB Tracker that Stephen Strasburg has more upside than Yu Darvish, though Darvish has faced better competition.
- Tony Massarotti of the Boston Globe asks Red Sox fans to slow down on the Roy Halladay talk, because Theo Epstein has given no indication that the Red Sox are interested.
- Jorge Says No! suggests the Jays should ask teams to take on a bad contract in any Halladay deal. They have a few overpaid players to choose from, especially Vernon Wells and B.J. Ryan.
- I'll be on ESPN Radio in Madison at 3:40 CST talking trades on The Big 1070. Also, check out my chat with the Benchwarmers on 590 KFNS from last night.
Why would Red Sox fans be so eager to go after Halladay? He's a great pitcher and all, but the Sox don't need him with all the talent they already have. The asking price is too high and it wouldn't be worth it for the Sox due to the amount of talent they would have to give up. Halladay would make them better one game out of every five, but with what they would lose, they would be worse off in the other four games.
Posted by: dgiff84 | July 08, 2009 at 01:58 PM
Anybody know if Yu Darvish will ever play MLB?
Posted by: JPWBRAVESFAN | July 08, 2009 at 02:01 PM
Alright, round 2, Dodgers fans. Stop living in a world where you think you can get Halladay without giving up Kershaw. It ain't gonna happen.
There is no rush to move Doc this year, but should he get moved, I wonder how many other big names from that team will be moved as well. Rolen's value is higher than it's been in a few years. They could move him or they could hope he keeps hitting the way he has been hitting and hope he qualifies for Type A status.
Posted by: BKuGotIt | July 08, 2009 at 02:07 PM
Assuming a team is only trading prospects for Halladay + a bad contract, what teams can actually afford to take on $24M (or $12M over half a year) or more added salary?
Posted by: Victor | July 08, 2009 at 02:11 PM
Anybody know if Yu Darvish will ever play MLB?
Posted by: JPWBRAVESFAN | July 08, 2009 at 02:01
Hard to say. It is his choice, but as i've heard a few times over, he has second thoughts about playing in America. But you never know, imoports have been making alot of green (Kei Igawa, Kenshin, Dice-K).
Posted by: The Atomic Punk | July 08, 2009 at 02:18 PM
Thank you, Mazz. As much as I'd love to have Halladay, there's no way it's happening.
Posted by: 0bsessions | July 08, 2009 at 02:24 PM
I think Yu Darvish would probably be like a Dice K anyway. You know just that average pitcher.
Posted by: JPWBRAVESFAN | July 08, 2009 at 02:25 PM
I love Mazz, even though I frequently disagree with him. But I'm sorry to say that there is a strong probability that only 3 teams are on Doc's radar for no-trade waiver. I can't imagine Doc wanting to go to the West coast. For that reason, the Phils, Yanks and Sox are likely the only viable contenders. I think the Sox have to compete in this sweepstakes if only to keep the Yanks from acquiring him. We certainly can open a roster spot in the rotation by releasing Smoltz (15 inn.; 20 hits; 11 runs; 6.60 ERA; OpBA of .313). I'd say Theo is exploring this as an option as we speak.
Posted by: Steve in MA | July 08, 2009 at 02:41 PM
Dice-K was way above average before this little bout of trouble he hit this season.
Posted by: The Atomic Punk | July 08, 2009 at 02:48 PM
Release smoltz after 15 innings?He hasn't pitched in a year, you're looking at an absolutely tiny sample size when he's first coming back from injury and he's never been anything but dominant when healthy. Not to mention if you treat Smoltz like that you can probably kiss good bye the chance of getting good reclamation projects in the immediate future. Seriously, are you dumb?
Posted by: gfulla | July 08, 2009 at 02:52 PM
" I can't imagine Doc wanting to go to the West coast."
I think he would. The parks out west make poor to solid pitchers look great to fantastic. Going somewhere out west for a year and a half will pad his next payday even more - even an off year for him would result in the same extreme contract he is presently lined up for. If he goes to a place like NY or Boston though, and has a slightly off year or struggles under the pressure, then the payday would be in jeopardy a bit. Would still be high, but not nearly as much as he is set to make now.
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 08, 2009 at 02:52 PM
I don't think it matters what park you stick him in, he's gonna perform as he always has. I believe the deal breaker will be infield defense. I agree that he would have his preferences as to ballparks, but the "D" is where it's at.
Posted by: The Atomic Punk | July 08, 2009 at 03:02 PM
I think Yu Darvish would probably be like a Dice K anyway. You know just that average pitcher.
Posted by: JPWBRAVESFAN | July 08, 2009 at 02:25 PM
Based on what? They're both Asian?
Posted by: bucs_lose_again | July 08, 2009 at 04:07 PM
It's probably good for the Red Sox that neither of those Alcantaras are related to Izzy. Izzy was a NUT!
Posted by: Counciltucky | July 08, 2009 at 04:34 PM
"Dice-K was way above average before this little bout of trouble he hit this season."
Um, no, he wasn't. At all.
Posted by: B3NG4L | July 08, 2009 at 04:36 PM
Yeah, because Dice was so horrible in 08' right? Moron.
Posted by: The Atomic Punk | July 08, 2009 at 04:46 PM
Not horrible, but not above average at all. First off, nice "Moron" - at least you show some class.
Dice-K had a 7.5 HR/F %. That is low, especially for a homepark like Fenway. Along with that, his BABIP against was .258. That again, is very low. He walked the ballpark and had hitters hit into a ton of luck. He has not been a good pitcher in the United Stats. Oh, and in his "above average" '08, he went an incredible 5.75 IP/G. His FIP (Fielding independent pitching) was 4.11. That is not above average.
Dice-K wasn't a good pitcher last year. Any smart baseball fan can see that.
Posted by: B3NG4L | July 08, 2009 at 05:01 PM
"Dice-K was way above average before this little bout of trouble he hit this season." - that's what you said Atomic.
2007 - 4.40 ERA / 1.324 WHIP
2008 - 2.90 ERA / 1.324 WHIP
2009 - 8.23 ERA / 2.200 WHIP
I would say that he has been extremely average over 3 years. His 2008 ERA was a fluke and looking at W/L is just silly. In 2008 his BABIP dropped to an unsustainable 260 average (LUCKY). FIP's bears that out showing an expected score of 4.23 in 2007 (in line with his actual ERA) and a much higher (when compared to ERA) FIP score of 4.03 in 2008.
In 2008 Dice-K was LUCKY. When you remove luck you get a VERY AVERAGE starter. Out of 40 starting pitchers in the AL who threw at least 160 innings, Dice-K ranked 25th in WHIP, 35th in K/BB, 39th in pitches/PA, and was 40th in walks allowed. Granted Dice-K did well in K's but that's really it. He was lucky and every single peripheral shows that.
Going forward, it's entirely reasonable to assume that you will see a pitcher with an ERA between 3.75 and 4.5. A pitcher who might give you 200 innings but probably closer to 180 (due to his high pitch count per inning). I think Dice-K is a solid pitcher on virtually any staff but is worth nowhere close to the $18m or so the Sox have and will spend on him annually. He's a good 3/4 starter on a good team.
In otherwords - he's pretty average.
Posted by: bjsguess | July 08, 2009 at 05:24 PM
Actually B3NG4L, calling Dice-k average when he was 3rd in the cy young voting desrves an emphatic "MORON" for such an ignorant post!
Posted by: RED SOX DYNASTY! | July 08, 2009 at 05:27 PM
Wow, RED SOX DYNASTY, B3NG4L and bjsguess just proved why Dice-K is overrated. Just because you come 3rd in Cy Young voting doesn't automatically make you good.
The stats don't lie. He got very lucky in 2008 and his market correction is rearing its ugly head right now in 2009. He's overpaid and definitely overrated. Bad move by the Red Sox to give him all that money.
Posted by: BKuGotIt | July 08, 2009 at 08:54 PM
SuzysMan, when I said that, I meant that Halladay lives on the East Coast in the off season (Palm Harbor, FL) and lives in Toronto about 7 months. He prefers the East despite being born in Denver. I was not referring to "park preferences." Also, the 3 most viable contenders for the WS are the three teams I mentioned, as both the Dodgers and Angels generally fold in the playoffs, and are the only Western teams able to seriously compete. Now that the Yanks have said they have no interest, that would greatly reduce the Sox' interest in competing for Doc.
Posted by: Steve in MA | July 08, 2009 at 09:17 PM
gfulla, I'm looking at an awful sample, albeit small in the MLB. But I'm also looking at his rehab progress through months of A and AA ball. He's been mediocre at best to downright awful throughout. I gave him 3 outtings before beginning to think he needs to go. Now, I'm strongly leaning toward recommending releasing him and giving Buchholz his well-deserved shot.
Posted by: Steve in MA | July 08, 2009 at 09:23 PM
Although I believe he is really just a troll that we shouldnt waist our time with, this is pretty easy.
Matsuzaka over his career
4.27 FIP, 1.40 WHIP, .305 BAbip
Average over that time
4.36 FIP, 1.39 WHIP, .303 BAbip
You don’t get much closer to Average then that.
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 08, 2009 at 09:37 PM
Steve, Ok. But sorry, I dont believe half the "he lives in so and so area so will only want to be in whatever region", it rarely holds true when players sign FA deals, and almost never when players are traded. I also dont see "generally fold in the playoffs" as any reason any player would ever stay away from any team - getting to the playoffs is a goal of everyone, and past postseason performance is not an indicator of future postseason performance. After all, if "generally fold" held true, neither Sox team would have ever won a WS.
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 08, 2009 at 09:42 PM
SuzysMan, Don't take my word for it. Take Heyman's: http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/2531831657
As for folding, I think that's a key consideration for a guy like Doc. He wants to win it all, right now. He holds ALL the cards with a full no-trade. He can and will dictate where he goes.
gfulla, I forgot to mention how ridiculous your argument sounds about "rehab projects." Releasing Smoltz would not jeopardize our stature one iota. Guys will look at what we did with Penny and still drool to join our program.
Posted by: Steve in MA | July 09, 2009 at 12:06 AM
Red Sox don't need Halladay in ay shape or form. Their strength is in SP and the price would be too high for it to be worthwhile.
I've been saying for ages the Jays should dump Well's in the Halladay deal, which I guess a team like LA would be perfect but if LA think they can steal him without giving up one of Kemp, Eithier, Loney, Kershaw or Billingsley then they're wrong.
I doubt LA will want to part with either pitcher so if I were Toronto I would be aiming for Loney or Kemp and then Dejesus, Broxton, Dewitt and a pitching prospect.
An giving LA Well's and Halladay... hell if I were the Toronto GM I would be willing to take Juan Pierre's contract if it means dumping Well's.
Rios is still VERY tradable so they don't need to think about dumping him, whereas Halladay is the ONE shot Toronto have of getting rid of Well's contract.
Posted by: OhPityMe | July 09, 2009 at 09:03 AM