Roy Halladay Rumors: Sunday

Kind of funny coming from Olney, who (like most writers) was singing the Twins' praises when the Santana trade occurred. They got the Mets top prospect in Gomez(who is still developing), and a couple solid pitcher prospects who are still working out in the minors.

Wasn't a package of Masterson, Lowery, and either Lester or Ellsbury also on the table?

Didn't the Tribe get the Brewer's top prospect, plus another top guy in Brantley, as well a a high ceiling reliever in Rob Bryson, as a deadline deal for Sabathia?

The idea that top talent will disappear from the table for Halladay is pretty silly.

It's a case of writers trying to stir the pot, and have a big story to write about.

Just double checked, Guerra was ahead of Gomez at the time:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/265152.html

"Either Halladay goes to the Yankees or he doesnt get traded. There arnt any teams other than the yankees that will give up the prospects and take on $$.

NO chance, Yankees or nooone."

Your pretty stupid, just because the yankees seem to spend a lot more money than a lot of other teams doesn't mean that no one else could make a offer.

A lot of clubs have good farm systems and major league ready talent they can give up.

Look at the brewers last year for Sabathia , look how the White Sox went for Peavy this year. Halladays not going to the East but the Phillies and White Sox are the Front runners IMO

The return Minnesota got back for Santana was awful. The only player who has actually put an impact for the Twins was Gomez, and yet he hasn't done well this year. Wouldn't it have been better if the Twins just waited until Santana was a free agent so they could get 2 first round picks? The Twins would have made the playoffs last year if they had Santana since they just barely missed the playoffs.

Olney is a moron. Can we stop bringing up the Santana deal, where Johan demanded an extension, in relation to Halladay?

The Jays should learn from the A's, O's, and the Indians to an extent. Not the Twins.

I still think White Sox and Phillies are frontrunners IMO. My hunch is ChiSox, if he's traded.

Jake, I didn't say the yankees have bad prospects but how many times are you going to hear that the Jays GM called the Yanks and Red sox and told them he won't be traded to the AL east. Yankees don't needs Wells or Rios anything the yankees would want would probably be there bullpen. I don't think the yankees can handle another big contract like this

jake,

stop sounding like a typical yankees fan.

what of the two below packages do you honestly think the Jays take (especially considering that the yankees are in their division)

Happ, Drabek, Brown or Taylor, Marson, Donald

or

Hughes or Joba, Kennedy, Montero, AJax.

Right now Happ is better than either Hughes or Joba, Drabek is absolutely better than Kennedy, Montero is much better than Marson and Jackson and Taylor or Brown is pretty much a wash.

considering they don't want to see halladay in their division, they'd absolutely take the phils offer over the yankees.

You can buy him in a couple of years after we've won another championship with him.

The whole Yankee thing is moot regardless of the package. If JP traded Halladay to the Yankees, the Blue Jay fans here in Toronto would literally slaughter him. Won't happen.

philsWSchamps, I would definitely take the Phils offer of those two. Joba can't be considered a front line prospect anymore given his struggles in the rotation and his playing time status, Kennedy sucks and I wouldn't bet on him being anything more than a decent No. 4 or 5 starter throughout his career. AJax and Montero are intriguing but significantly less polished than the Phils guys and therefore a much larger risk.

Halladay is NOT going to another team in the AL East, unless they greatly overpay.. and that is unlikely to happen. some say the Jays are asking for alot as it is, it would be alot worse coming from another team in the AL East.

the Yankees COULD take back Wells contract, but in doing so would want to offer alot less value in prospects.. and for the Jays to trade Halladay without getting numerous top prospects back in return is ridiculous, even to get rid of Wells.

BeanoCook, Gomez is not the best defensive CF in the game. He was great last year but has come back down to earth this year with a UZR/150 of 4.1, whereas Colby Rasmus has a UZR/150 of 26.1 in 68 games in CF this season.

Also, if the Yankees dealt Hughes, Cabrera, and 2-3 good prospects, then they could have gotten Santana. If the Yankees acquired Santana, then they would have had no doubt a better chance to make the playoffs.

Posted by: It's Giant's Time! | July 19, 2009 at 12:45 PM
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The Yanks would've had a better chance making the playoffs in 2008 if they had Santana but you can't sell your future for a playoff opp. The rotation still would've sucked as it would've been Johan, Mussina, Pettite and who else? Wang was out for the year, Pettite had a horrible second half and Joba was back in the pen after coming off the DL. So while a team CAN make a playoff runs with 3 pitchers I still think we would not have gone far w/ Santana in 2008. Now going into 2008 winter, I don't know for sure if the Yanks would've gone after CC or not. Certainly it would not have been CC and Burnett. So IF the Yanks had obtained Johan then you're looking at a rotation of Johan, AJ, Wang, Pettite and Joba.

It would've been either Johan or CC. I doubt it would've been both.

IMO, CC + $161 mil

beats

Johan + $132 mil plus $25 mil option or $5.5 buyout + Hughes, IPK, Cabrera and probably Jackson.

Yanks are a better OVERALL team and have more depth not making that deal.

I know the demand is WIN #27, but we have to temper the end game with what's best for our future. Hughes, Joba, MOntero and Ajax can be very good players in the near future.

"It was quote from fans and fan sites, I know a yank official never said that and I never said any official said that. Don't put words in my mouth.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | July 19, 2009 at 01:59 PM"

You really shouldn't complain about people putting words in your mouth, when you're doing the exact same thing. You clump all Yankee fans together by saying "The highest payroll team, loaded with talent, and they're talking about needing the best pitcher in baseball. It's just sad."

THEY'RE, is what you said. When most people read that, they will think of the Yankee front office and the entire fan base.

YanksFanSince78 - the part you're missing though is that the Yanks would have definitely made the playoffs last year. Not only that, they would have been arguably the best team in the game. If it cost the 08 club a ring are you still fine with passing on Santana?

There were a lot of games started in 08 that would have been Johan. How about the 20 starts to Rasner, the 7 from Pavano, the 15 from Ponson, 8 from Hughes, and 9 from Kennedy. That's nearly 60 starts by pitchers who sported an ERA higher than 5.25. You swap out 35 of those starts with Johan's performance and easily make up the 6 games necessary to pass Boston in the standings.

CG good job Doc!

Up goes the price!

the Jonathan,

Arroyo, you mean Bronson Arroyo? No friggin way. This is a solid 5 tool player. He's got 30 HR 100+ RBI, 100R and 30 SB written all over him. I don't do that for a pitcher like Arroyo. that's way too much of a price.

The answer to me at this point is barring a Met-like collapse (sorry nrmax i almost had to!) we're in the playoffs. We've got to me then a 50/50 shot to get to the WS. If we get there with what we have now, we likely lose to the AL team.

if we go out and get halladay and sacrifice the future, we up that chance to say 60/40 or 70/30.

I'm on the fence but seeing some of the kids below Drabek, Taylor et al I'd probably do it.

Rufus,

I also agree they won't go that far to get him but was mainly comparing what the max the Yankees could offer as to what we would. I do think you're not offering enough though for the best pitcher in baseball who just pitched a CG against the Sox.

I'd give Happ, Drabek, Brown and then filler around that.

Oh and filler isn't taylor or Knapp. Its Marson, donald, Savery, Worley maybe even gose but i love his speed (50 SB already in Low A)

rufus, you ACTUALLY think that Brown, Carrasco, Donald, D'Arnaud would net you Halladay, the best pitcher in baseball? I can't stop laughing

"I say if the Phillies do get him they give up at most 1 of Drabek, Brown, or Taylor. Happ is going nowhere.

I think a deal of Brown, Carrasco, Donald, D'Arnaud(who I saw somewhere that TOR likes)+ maybe 1 other guy is the max deal they make. And I don't think it will take that."

Hahhaha. You're joking right?

Drabek, Brown/Taylor, Marson, Donald and Knapp is a STARTING POINT IF JP will make this trade. Otherwise, forget it. If the Jays aren't completely blown away, it's not happening. Sorry.

Very impressive start from Halladay today. Completely shut down the Sox. Any team getting this guy is getting an absolute stud.

After watching Roy's game today it's going to be an incredibly sad day if he does get traded.

Drabek, Brown/Taylor, Marson, Donald and Knapp is a STARTING POINT IF JP will make this trade. Otherwise, forget it. If the Jays aren't completely blown away, it's not happening. Sorry.

Posted by: Jays24 | July 19, 2009 at 03:03 PM
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So......

Drabek @ 21- 2.83 ERA, 111 ko in 114 IP @ A+/AA.

Happ @ 26- 6-0, 2.90 in 87 IP at the mlb level.

Michael Taylor @ 23- .329/.405 w/ 16 hrs and 19 SB @ AA/AAA.

Marson @ 22- A catcher hitting .301/.381 @ AAA.

and

Jason Donald @ 24 who's on the DL but still a good player w/ potential at a premium position

.....would just be a starting point??? Should they just transfer over their AA team to you? Would you like then to harvest the DNA of Grover Cleveland Alexander, Chief Bender and freakin' Nap Lajoie as well? Maybe they can clone a new crop of players...you may have to wait on them for 20 years or so but the good news is you won't have to place them on the 40 man roster.

I think Jays fan are confusing being "pleased" by a prospect package with being "flabbergasted" by one as well. Obviously, the Jays are not forced to trade him, but I would hate (laugh) if all they get are a 1st round and a comp pick. No guarantee that the 1st round pick will even be a top 20 player and really, if a bottom 15 team signs him then ALL they would get would be a comp pick which would come after all 30 teams have chosen their picks already (see AJ Burnett comp). What did the Jays get..a 2nd or 3rd rnd pick or something?

Halladay dominated the Nation today. I want him!!!
and if Joba can do what he did today and keep it up the rotation would be incredable.

Halladay
Sabathia
Burnett
Chamberlain
Pettite

you cant improve much from that..accually u cant improve it at all

Jeter is already earning $20 mil. At his age and in this ecomy (baseball economy) there's no way he gets extended at $20 mil per.

Look what the Twins got for Santana, whose numbers are better than Halladay's over the past few yrs. Look what the Indians got for Sabathia. What Schilling was traded for. A lot of these deals are done for less than what you'd think it should take.

We'll see what happens. As far as Toronto, they're in bad shape. With the Red Sox, Yankees and Rays they pretty much have no chance at all to make the playoffs for the next decade at least. So whatever they do won't really matter. Roy's been there a while and I think they want to give him a good chance to win, instead of wasting his career on a mediocre team.

So they'll end up taking a good package even if it's not a mindblowing package. Whoever gets him will get him for less than most of the names bandied about. If the Phillies get him they'll only give up one of Happ, Drabek, Taylor or Brown(at the most).

We'll know soon enough.

rufus your an idiot, you can't compare the Sabathia and Santana trades to Halladay at all. He has 1.5 years left on his contract, while CC was a half season rental.

did my last comments get deleted?

guess the truth hurts, lets try again.

did anyone see Halladay's line today?
9 IP, 6 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 7 K
thats what you can expect from Halladay on a consistent basis.
there arnt very many pitchers in baseball that can give you than consistently.

the Halladay situation is DIFFERENT. the Jays dont have to trade him. Halalday has said many times before he loves Toronto and would gladly sign an extension to remain there.

enough of this GARBAGE the Jays are asking for too much. Halladay is one of the few elite pitchers. if you want him the price is high.

if you want another players comparison, Mark Teixeira. he had 1 1/2 seasons left before free agency. the Braves traded to the Rangers- Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison and Beau Jones.
if you want Halladay, the package has to be similar.
..and dont cry but but Teixeira is an every day player. Halladay can help just the same pitching every 5 days.

Drabek, Donald, Taylor, plus 2 more prospects.
dont like it? Halladay stays in Toronto.

I really don't think anyone will give up what the blue jays want for Halladay.......

Speaking of lines today:

Joba, 6 2/3 IP, 3 hits, 8 walks. Still needs to cut down on the walks though as he allowed 3 and ran a lot of full counts.

Hughes has now struck out 8 in his last 3 IP.

Again, a perplexing issue with Joba. Why does he start out w/ his FB anywhere from 90-94 mph but is able to throw 95-97 mph 70 pitches later into the game? He was just filthy once he settled into the game.

This website is going downhill.

The maintenance used to be MUCH better. Now we see 4-5 new Halladay threads a day. It gets confusing because you don't know which post is the most current, esp. when they refute one another.

Is there another baseball rumor site around the web?

if your going to be throwing out some numbers, you should really use more than a handful.

Kyle Drabek
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/D/Kyle-Drabek.shtml
A+.. 2.48 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 74 K in 61.2 IP.
AA.. 3.25 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, 37 K in 52.2 IP
minor league career- 3.62 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, 187 K in 224 IP
scouting- Control: 44, K-Rating: 41, Efficiency: 75

Jason Donald
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/D/Jason-Donald.shtml
i think he was injured?
2009- 50G/ 204AB- .230 AVG/ .293 OBP/ .324 SLG/ .617 OPS/
minor league career- 343G/ 1280AB- .285 AVG/ .369 OBP/ .435 SLG/ .804 OPS/
scouting- Power: 79/ Speed: 52/ Contact: 33/ Patience: 58

Michael Taylor
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/Michael-Taylor.shtml
2009- 86G/ 318 AB- .333 AVG/ .408 OBP/ .569 SLG/ .977 OPS/
minor league career- 287G/ 1053 AB- .314 AVG/ .385 OBP/ .518 SLG/ .903 OPS
scouting- Power: 82/ Speed: 53/ Contact: 62/ Patience: 45

JA Happ
lets not go giving this guy the cy young yet ok. his numbers this season are good, but hes also had games out of the bullpen.
as a starter- 3.03 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, 44 K in 65.1 IP
as a reliever- 2.49 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, 17 K in 21.2 IP
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/H/james-happ.shtml
he wasnt very impressive at AAA in 2008/2007, but his career line- 3.34 ERA/ 1.22 WHIP, 542 K in 528 IP
scouting- Control: 53/ K-Rating: 96/ Efficiency: 89

then theres Lou Marson. i personally dont see the Jays going hard after Marson. the Jays #2 prospect is a catcher at AAA named JP Arencibia.

with the current Phillies team Donald/Drabek/Taylor wont be in Philadelphia anytime soon. Rollins is at SS, and their entire OF just went to the all star game.
the Phillies are built to win right now, they can afford to give up the prospects it would take to add Halladay and have a great chance at not only winning the World Series this season but also next season.

SpecialFNK: I can't believe you used baseballcude's scouting system. Means didly.

i love the information this site gives from all over, but i do think its a problem where EVERY DAY there is a new Halladay thread where alot of the same things getting said over and over.
there are other websites/forums with ONE Halladay thread that just keeps going and going with new posts every day, but its the same thread.

"Happ, Drabek, Brown or Taylor, Marson, Donald

or

Hughes or Joba, Kennedy, Montero, AJax."

I take the Yankees offer with Joba. Drop Kennedy and demand Romine as insurance for Montero.

Joba's ceiling is higher than any of the names above.

I want Joba to take over for Rivera when he retires, but that is for another time.

"Drabek, Brown/Taylor, Marson, Donald and Knapp is a STARTING POINT IF JP will make this trade. Otherwise, forget it. If the Jays aren't completely blown away, it's not happening. Sorry."

If JP didn't take that I would be upset as a Jays fan..

I think Halladay moving is 60/40

no less halladay threads than peavy threads
difference is not a 100 billion cubs fans weighing in

doc IS the best pitcher in baseball

and worth it to any on-the-border team looking for a ring in next couple years

would be more than worth it for angels but those stubborn idiots still think brandon wood is cal ripken yet can't see they don't need him

to people who think the red sox are so great and the yanks wont make the playoffs you guys are wrong. the yanks are 1 game behind them and are winning the wild card to. yanks have plenty of prospects to get halladay:

Jesus Montero, Austin Jackson, Austin Romone, Ian Kennedy,Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Francisco Cervelli, Andrew Brackman,Shelly Duncan(whos hitting .280 with 23hr and 72rbi) Ramiro Pena, and plenty of others.

cashman said he wasn't going to get halladay but hey he said he wasn't going to get Alex Rodriguez and Mark Teixeria either. we have the guys lets make it happen!

man, some of you guys must be new to baseball.

the rumor-mill is like this EVERY SINGLE YEAR. get over it.

"x player possibly going to x team".

geezus christ, you're on a 'rumor' blog. the sooner you all realize this, the sooner you can stop posting whiny posts.

J.P. Ricciardi, Tony LeCava, Alex Anthopolous & Paul Beeston. If any of you gentlemen are reading this (!), you absolutely MUST aquire Kyle Drabek if you are going to trade Roy to Philly. Surely you already know that. Public perception will already be unpleasant but not getting that particular prospect will be seen as a failure & make things much uglier.
Good luck.

Why not trade Drabek? Happ looks like a solid #3 which coupled the hamels and halladay would be quite formidable for the next couple years, asummuning halladay is resigned. With a solid 1-3 like that what is the need for drabek?

s17, did the bitter cold that makes it too cold to play in October up there spill over to your personality?

You're the polar extreme of what the Phils fans' weak packages are. These trades for superstars almost never end up netting the high- or low-end extremes. Get over it.

And if you really don't like what people are saying about a potential Roy Halladay trade, don't read a thread about Roy Halladay getting traded.

for Roy Halladay sorry forgot to put that in last post

seems like a good deal for both

Look at the Phils now. Rollins has struggled all yr and could be past his time. And the OF, HAHAA. Victorino and Werth both shouldnt have been all stars before Kemp. Look at the numbers.

I know the Phils want Halladay, but it may be smarter to develop guys that can help out in the majors.

I wouldnt consider the 5th starter spot a guarentee that your pitching prospects wont help put at. Remember, Pedro will be your 5th starter, who knows what he'll do

Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | July 19, 2009 at 08:24 PM

uh don't look now but JROLL's batting over .350 in July and has an OPS approaching 1.000

Most Dodger fans I know are scared to death that Halladay with the Phils will mean a repeat of 2008. And come the postseason, the 5th spot doesn't mean a thing.

Tim Alderson, Angel Villalona, Nick Noonan, Kevin Frandsen, Scott Barnes, Ari Ronick, and Brett Pill

============

Booo haaaaaa....!!!!

Jesus Montero, Austin Jackson, Austin Romone, Ian Kennedy,Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Francisco Cervelli, Andrew Brackman,Shelly Duncan(whos hitting .280 with 23hr and 72rbi) Ramiro Pena, and plenty of others.

yes, we know how good the yankees are... you remind
us of your 26 rings every 15 minutes... curious, how old
is shelly duncan, 37?
37 years old?

the Yankees could have great prospects, the best prospects in the world, but are they willing to overpay to get Halladay? some are saying what the Jays are asking for is too much, would the Yankees be willing to give up even more than that? because thats what it would take for Toronto to send Halladay to another team in their own division.

'Look at the Phils now. Rollins has struggled all yr and could be past his time. And the OF, HAHAA. Victorino and Werth both shouldnt have been all stars before Kemp. Look at the numbers.

I know the Phils want Halladay, but it may be smarter to develop guys that can help out in the majors.

I wouldnt consider the 5th starter spot a guarentee that your pitching prospects wont help put at. Remember, Pedro will be your 5th starter, who knows what he'll do

Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | July 19, 2009 at 08:24 PM

uh don't look now but JROLL's batting over .350 in July and has an OPS approaching 1.000

Most Dodger fans I know are scared to death that Halladay with the Phils will mean a repeat of 2008. And come the postseason, the 5th spot doesn't mean a thing.'

Yea, he is hitting 350 in July. However, DeWitt hit about 320 in May last yr. He could be coming out of his funk, or he could be doing well for 20 days. All Im saying is we dont know which it is.

Also, with the 5th starter, I wasnt talking about the postseason, but rather the push into the playoffs. If the Mets get healthy and acquire another pitcher(like a Pavano, not a Halladay) or the Braves get hot, with their pitching living up to the potential, or even the Marlins, who are young but VERY talented. Halladay will help, but at least the 4 young guys who could be in the deal could help the club in more spots

Mets getting into contention u gotta be kidding me...they cant score runs if they tried. reyes is out so is degato and beltran and wright has 5hrs melky has 8. look this season is a lost one for them they will not get into contention even if 1 of the 3 came back today

im not saying right now, not by a long shot. Remeber, it has been close to a month that these guys have been out and they didnt bury them. If they can stay in contention, and get a starter to pair with Santana, why not? I dont think it will happen, but it could, the Phils havent been great this yr...

"im not saying right now, not by a long shot. Remeber, it has been close to a month that these guys have been out and they didnt bury them. If they can stay in contention, and get a starter to pair with Santana, why not? I dont think it will happen, but it could, the Phils havent been great this yr..."

I'm pretty sure they buried them this weekend. Check the standings. And you said it, they HAVEN'T even hit their groove yet (even though they appear to just have). Our bullpen is now healthy, RAULLL is back and rollins is tearing it up. Look out!

I wouldnt call a 22 yrs old a AAAA 2B. I was just saying anyone can get hot for 20 days.

That is what Id be worried about if I was a Philly fan. The fact that the mets have been hurt, but they are still kinda close... The Braves cant score, but they have been involved in Holliday talks, and the Marlins are young, and will go into ruts, but still could make a late season run...