Discussion: Livan Hernandez

Let me rephrase.

How he keeps getting major league contracts*

He was really good for a third of the season......He's an ok #5 on a non-contender.

above average FIP last year, though TRA completely disagrees with him being at least average. To answer The Bunk's question, he must possess one of those 'intangibles' coaches love veterans to possess (i.e. helps young pitchers on the staff). 180 innings a year at 1.5 whip, 5 ERA has to be tough to overlook for a lot of teams, but then again most teams don't have 5 legitimate MLB starters

The phrase we always read about with Livan is "he's an innings eater". Okay, so whose innings is he gonna eat? IT's not like he's a good pitcher or anything.

So would you bring him in?
-Absolutely not if i were the Nationals. At this point yeah he eats innings but there are a lot better innings eaters on the market who won't get battered around. I can think of 3 names off the top of my head i can think of free agents this season who are better and won't cost much more. You got, Jon Garland (if nobody is interested you grab this guy as an innings eater) Chris Capuano, and Noah Lowry
Is the ability to stay healthy valuable enough to make up for his performance?
-NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

"On the plus side, he eats innings- hit-filled, run-scoring innings."

This is a great line. And it's very true.

"Okay, so whose innings is he gonna eat? IT's not like he's a good pitcher or anything."

That one guy who should be still in AAA. Seriously, he's not going to be blocking any guy who's wasting away in AAA and signing Hernandez won't exactly change the playoff odds of the Nats (for the viewers playing at home, the odds are zero in both cases). If anything it gives the Nats enough flexibility to leave Strausburg in the minors so he doesn't come up too fast and wreck a potentially great career.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | November 03, 2009 at 10:42 PM

But, then why not just take any pitcher from the minors for half the cost? (League Min.)

"Seriously, he's not going to be blocking any guy who's wasting away in AAA"

Tell that to the 2008 version of Francisco Liriano. :(

Livan is a very strange pitcher. For someone with such poor numbers, he puts up quite a few quality starts (58% of his starts in 2009, 39% in 2008, 58% in 2007, 56% in 2006, 63% in 2005, 54% in his career while 48% is the MLB average).

It seems like Livan always alternates between a great game and an implosion. For a team like the Nats, you can afford to keep a guy who will do that. Zimmermann is out for 2010, Strasburg doesn't need to be rushed and most of the other young starters will be on innings limits anyways...why not give him the ball for 20 starts?

Livan is a very strange pitcher. For someone with such poor numbers, he puts up quite a few quality starts (58% of his starts in 2009, 39% in 2008, 58% in 2007, 56% in 2006, 63% in 2005, 54% in his career while 48% is the MLB average).

Posted by: thehoagster07 | November 03, 2009 at 11:37 PM

Haha, what a great post.. Love it.

Might as well bring him back. It's not like the Nats are going to be competitive any time soon, and you may as well not rush any of the organization's young talent and burn valuable service time in the process. Run bums like Livan out there and get another high draft pick....

I don't care about any of you Livan haters (FIP this TRA that), I love to go to the ballpark and watch Livo pitch. Yes he has his bad outings, but he also has his good ones. He loves being at home and I like having him here. He will teach some of the young guys the tricks of the trade (like that 60 mph Buggs Bunny pitch that fools hitters). I love Livo and hope I get to see him at Nats Park next season.

I am a Nats fan who would prefer to see the yeam sign or trade for better pitchers than Livo. However, we do love him. He starts each year well, and we would all enjoy seeing him play about .500 ball until Steven Strasburg is ready.

If our younger pitchers from the last several years improve in leaps and bounds, then Livo can go with our fond blessing. However, our younger pitchers put games into what started as a patheitc bullpen way too often last year. That really makes the "innings eating" valuable.

It's always a pleasure to watch Livan get pummeled.
It's amazing he's held on as long as he has .Career 156-151.
"Innings eater" isn't that a euphemism for being utterly mediocre ?
My Innings Eater Rotation:
Livan
Silva
Pavano
Nate Robertson
Moeller
honorable mention:
Bret Tomko
Suppan

Livan, and older, hangers-ons' like him just fill slots that younger pitchers with upside should fill. It makes it easier on the coaching staff, to have one or two guys who can't be taught anything new other than to just go out to the mound, throw strikes, and duck.
If the Nats front office plans to put winning baseball on to to the field in DC, some risks, with younger talent, and quality coaching, have to be taken..I hope they do it soon because the novelty of having MLB back in the nation's capital seems to be waning. People want a winner in DC sooner rather than later.

Innings eaters is just another ord for retread with an ERA of 5 or over. I would much rather see some of the older AAA pitchers get a shot rather than Suppan, Hernandez, Lohse, Silva, I could go on and on. Of course fangraphs would say that each of these guys was worth $10 million last season.

"However I could also see them throwing a few million at someone like Lowry or Capuano and hoping for better then replacement level innings."

See, if a team is willing to spend $4-5M, they can probably get guys from the Bedard/Penny/Myers/Duchscherer/Smoltz group of pitchers, rather than settle for a rehab guy with much less upside like Capuano or Lowry, although those guys aren't awful options.

"I'd say just about any warm body they have in the minors would be a better option than paying him well over the league minimum to waste a roster space. His best days are well past him and he's just not very good anymore, can anyone really see him improving enough to be worth a roster spot, much less a spot in the rotation at this point? Given that he's worse than league average he's not going to help them win anything, they might as well see what some of their young guys can do."

Yeah, anything over a few a hundred thousand over the league minimum would be way too much to give to Livan.

Scribbletone, the difference between the rehabbers I listed and the ones you did is that the ones you listed will likely have more opportunities available to them, many of which will be on far better clubs. Even Lowry and Capuano will have more offers and would likely have to be over paid a little to get them to Washington.

Instead of throwing lets say 3 million at some combination of Livan/Lowry/Capuano I agree I rather throw 5 million or so at one of the injured arms and hope for a bounce back make good season. I'm just trying to figure out why this would be even a discussable option for the National brass.

"ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?! Livan Hernandez fits in just fine with the rest of these bums.

Don't get me wrong, I know some of these guys are really young and still have potential... but let's face it: if Hernandez can stay healthy and pitch 200 innings, he probably isn't the worst person in their rotation."

Firstly, all(not some) of those "bums" are either 26 or younger. Secondly, Livan is a veteran presence who is actually well liked in DC who might actually help the young kids out.