Tigers Will Listen On Edwin Jackson

come back to LAD???

if the yankees got him that'd be great. they wouldnt need to buy a 4 starter, and he could be there 3, depending on what petitte decides to do.

sabathia
burnett
jackson
petitte
hughes/joba

I don't think the Yankees have given up on Wang yet and why should they. He won 19 games back to back years and was well on his way to doing it for a 3rd year until he got hurt and then he came back last year but wasnt quite the same and was placed on the DL for almost the whole year. He still has that potential to be a 17+ game winner, he just needs to get healthy.

i'm not sure, i haven't heard anything about him form the actual yankees, not just fans. i like garland as a number 4 though. That's if jackson isn't actually available.

I just though of a 3-way trade between the dodgers,red sox,and brewers. Sox trade some prospects for chad billensgliy and them we include him in a package for prince of the brewers.

Depends. Do they think EJax's 2009 was a career year? This could be an interesting sell high. But then, EJax is young enough that it could've been a legitimate breakout.

Not just the bad contracts, some of which are absurdly stupid, but how the economic crisis has hit Detroit markedly worse than it has hit pretty much every other metropolitan area in the US. Payroll issues are expected.

I don;t see the point now anyways...as GoingHome mentions they have a ton of $$ coming off the books after 2010 and he is not gonna lose much value if they wait until the allstar break. A team trading for him would still get 1+ years. If anything it sends a flag, buyer-beware that they are concerned about his abilities, health or mental make-up

His second half stats probably deteriorated due to pitch count. Leyland is abusive on his pitchers.

hope so. it would make the White Sox a solid favorite to win the Central.

Posted by: 2HeadedBoy | November 10, 2009 at 07:16 PM

Now that makes me laugh. The DEFENDING AL Central Champs did it without Slowey, Neshek, Bonser and Morneau. Who are all back. Plus add JJ Hardy to it all now.

Seems like the Twins are the favorites for the Central.

You're right. With all the horrendous contracts tied up in bad players on the Tigers, and if the White Sox can't fill most of their holes in the offseason, the Twins will be the favorite for the Central.

Scary thing is the Twins are unoffically linked to bringing O-Cab back to play second, and having interest in Beltre and Harden. All said and done, this could actually be a scary team. Still think the Tigers gives the Twins the most run though. WSox got Peavy, which was a great move, but Rios is gonna make them regret that move ALOT.

Not to mention, i'm VERY iffy on trading Getz, and Magglio cannot be as bad as he was for the majority of last year..

I think the Mets will make a play at him. If they can bring in lackey, jackson, and someone like marquis, their rotation is no longer a weakness.

The Twins have to be considered the favorite. They always have the best coaching and play the best team ball. If they can pick up a decent starting pitcher this offseason such as Rich Harden that will help put them over the top.

I simply don't see the Tigers as major players in the Central with Verlander and Porcello as the only reliable pitchers. Even if they were to trade Ejacks for something of need, chances are it would be a vet already making money. It's not like the Tigers are dealing from a position of stength with regards to their pitching.

Tigers are in an odd situation and I feel bad for the city. They're a major market that has a loyal fan base. The Tigers make efforts to field a good team each year but they are just handcuffed due to the economy specific to the automotive industry which hits them the hardest.

It just amazes me that in Bonderman, Willis and Robertson they have $34 mil tagged for 2010 and they are likely to get ZIPPO type of return on them in terms of performance. Then take into account the $31 mil they have invested in Maggs and Guillen next year, both two players probably on the down slope of their careers. That's $65 mil put towards 2010 salary that would probably struggle to earn $15 mil in the open market if they were FA this year.

"Um. I dunno bout you, but i would trade Billz for King Felix straight up and laugh my way to the bank. Felix is younger, more proven AND had his proof on the AL. He would dominate the NL."
Not to mention he won 19 games on a mediocre team. I agree 100% with that statement.
King Felix >>> Billingsley.

"Pizza! Pizza!"

Just raise prices a dime each.

Presto.

"I simply don't see the Tigers as major players in the Central with Verlander and Porcello as the only reliable pitchers. Even if they were to trade Ejacks for something of need, chances are it would be a vet already making money. It's not like the Tigers are dealing from a position of stength with regards to their pitching.

Tigers are in an odd situation and I feel bad for the city. They're a major market that has a loyal fan base. The Tigers make efforts to field a good team each year but they are just handcuffed due to the economy specific to the automotive industry which hits them the hardest.

It just amazes me that in Bonderman, Willis and Robertson they have $34 mil tagged for 2010 and they are likely to get ZIPPO type of return on them in terms of performance. Then take into account the $31 mil they have invested in Maggs and Guillen next year, both two players probably on the down slope of their careers. That's $65 mil put towards 2010 salary that would probably struggle to earn $15 mil in the open market if they were FA this year."

Very well said. I want the Tigers to succeed just for the sake of Detroit. It has been a tough time for those living there so hopefully guys like Magglio and Guillen will bounce back and help return these Tiger's to the playoffs. The bad thing is though it is highly unlikely.

If the Padres or Mariners go ahead and offer Felix or AGonz for Billingsley (who DOES have the stuff to become an ace, but hasn't had nearly as much as success as those two) than the Dodgers would be stupid to reject.

However, Jack Z and I'd assume Jed Hoyer are both smart enough to not make those deals.

Payroll considerations? Home attendance was the 5th highest in team history with a lousy economy in Detroit. Cut salaries and watch attendance drop big time.

Um. I dunno bout you, but i would trade Billz for King Felix straight up and laugh my way to the bank. Felix is younger, more proven AND had his proof on the AL. He would dominate the NL.

"The Dodgers wouldnt trade Billz for Halladay or Agon or probably Felix. Why would we do it for uggla or Sox prospects?"

Maybe not Halladay but I am pretty sure the Dodgers would trade him for Adrian Gonzalez and im 100% sure that they would deal him for Felix. But I get your point it was a dumb trade rumor but he has posted a lot of these lately so you should probably just try to ignore them."

Sorry there are two different posts, but they relate. I would trade Billingsley straight up for Felix, but the Dodgers said they wouldnt. Now, this was after the trade deadline and there were any more talks at that point, but I was saying what they stated.

Regarding Agon, the Dodgers immediately turned down Agon for Billz because they didnt want to face him. They felt the Dodgers would overpay if they gave up both Loney and Billz but wouldnt have enough time before the deadline to deal Loney. I doubt theyd do it now for Gonzalez or Halladay.

The problem with Felix is that Sea wouldnt want just Billingsley, but Billz plus top prospects...

mets should try to trade for him. forget about lackey, hes overrated.

Payroll considerations? Home attendance was the 5th highest in team history with a lousy economy in Detroit. Cut salaries and watch attendance drop big time.

Posted by: skatehack | November 10, 2009 at 07:52 PM
-----------

Dude...no disrespect, don't think of it as cutting payroll as much as cutting dead weight. $57 mil spent in 2009 got you.....

3-8 record, 89 IP and an ERA waaaayyyyyyyy above 5.00

and 20 hrs w/ 91 rbi,

That's abysmal. Tiger fans have to really hope that somehow Ordonez and Guillen will bounce back and have all-star caliber years. As for Robertson, Willis and Bonderman, I seriously doubt they'll contribute anything simply because Veralnder, EJakcs (if not traded), Porcello, and Galarraga deserve to start ahead of any of the three. That's at least $20 mil invested in at least two guys who may not even get a chance to start next year.

Sell Inge for a bag of chips, and sign Figgins.
---------

Hmmm..what would that take? Seems to me he would be someone they would want to hold on to. He's only owed around $6 mil I think. Are there any in-house replacement?

"I hate Tigers fans and how arrogant they are, because they got Cabrera. I think that trade might be what screwed them."

Really? Most Tigers fans I've talked to don't like the Cabrera trade at all.

You're right about the choking, this team can't play win playoff spot unless they have a 20 game lead entering September.

"The Dodgers wouldnt trade Billz for Halladay or Agon or probably Felix. Why would we do it for uggla or Sox prospects?"

The important thing here is that lakersdodgersyankees never calls out other fans for overvaluing their players.

Smell that? It's sarcasm...

i'm glad so many of you took the bait. here's some more red meat:

Here's what Vegas says right now
(11/9/09):
ODDS TO WIN THE 2010 WORLD SERIES:
Team
N.Y. Yankees 3/1
Boston 13/2
Philadelphia 13/2
St. Louis 8/1
L.A. Angels 17/2
L.A. Dodgers 9/1
Tampa Bay 11/1
Chi. White Sox 12/1
Atlanta 12/1
Chi. Cubs 14/1
Colorado 20/1
Detroit 20/1
N.Y. Mets 20/1
Texas 30/1
San Francisco 30/1
Florida 30/1
Minnesota 30/1

E. Jackson and Miggy to the BO-Sox for a bunch of spects

Yanksfan- No. There is absolutely nothing in the pipeline for the Tigers at third base. Nothing. Their AAA guy at the hot corner figures to be Mike Hollimon, who was a promising young infielder until he spent most of the last season on the DL. They just taked Danny Fields (Bruce's kid) out of going to Michigan, and paid him way over slot. He's a SS who figures to be moved to 3B, but the kid just graduated H.S. and doesn't even shave every day yet. Inge's 6.6 mil contract is up after 2010. He has a gold caliber glove, but hit under .190 in July, and August, and September, and he's pulled this stunt before.
Figgins is exactly what the Tigers need in the lineup, and he's probably the best fielding 3B in the AL now. It'll take unloading Inge and another contract to make room, but it can be done if there is a taker for Inge coming off his surgery. If not, they'll have to go through another year with him. I'd never have moved Guillen away from third, mediocre though he is in the field.

Does anyone see them maybe trading Granderson inorder to fill some of their needs? I always thoug he was a decent defender until I saw him misplay several balls that either went over his head or dropped in front of him but would've normally have been outs. Was that just me watching at the wrong time or does he get a bad jump/read on balls hit to him?

"Bring back Polanco, Rodney and Lyon. Upgrade the shortstop. Sell Inge for a bag of chips, and sign Figgins."

I'm not sure Polly will be back. He should be, but it comes down to $. Most likely it's one of Lyon or Rodney, but not both. I like Figgins, but Inge's contract is reasonable by MLB standards. I'd be surprised if he goes anywhere until some of the bad deals come off the books.

Lynn Henning of the Detroit News suggested trading Granderson, which necessarily means that he won't be traded. The single greatest predictor of what the Tigers won't do is what Henning says they will do.
Curtis had a bad year at the plate and in the field. He can be gold glove caliber, and he can be an All Star, but he put a loop in his swing to hit more homers, and was misjudging balls in the field. Maybe he spends too much time blogging and being an ambassador for the game on other continents, but he should have a nice rebound season and a fine career.
The Tigers don't need to trade any of the few solid ball players that they can build a club around. Keep Verlander, Jackson, Porcello, Cabrera, and Granderson. Let the $ 65 million for Ordonez, Willis, Bonderman, Robertson, and Inge come off the books. Get a legit lead off man, a couple guys to turn the DP, and a starter for the back end of the rotation until Turner and Oliver are ready to step in. They'll be fine.
AND- if they're really in a payroll bind, how stupid does it look for Leyland to end the platoon for Ordonez, when he was hitting .220 against RHP's in July? How stupid does it look that they let his $ 18 million option vest because Dombrowski didn't get anyone better than Aubrey Huff at, no AFTER, the deadline? $ 18 million is enough to keep Rodney, Polanco, Lyon, AND get a decent shortstop.
Payroll mismanagement at it's finest.

I meant "I could careless about the Dodgers..."

Ok, I think I've got it;

Tigers get;
Weeks
Gamel
Stetter
Bush

Brewers get;
Jackson
Inge
Willis

Brewers have a great offense, they just need some pitching. Gallardo and Jackson is a good 1/2 and they can sign a mid level FA pitcher. Tigers get some young guys with tallent that have yet to break out, and get out from under the Willis contract early. You heard it hear first folks, haha.

Yeah but I think the Tigers need pitching just as much as the Brewers do. They would not be dealing from a position of stength.

Whether or not they feel Buchholz is overrated is immaterial. Buchholz himself will settle that matter on the mound. But more important, just how exactly is the Sox fans enthusiasm any different than yours towards Billingsly or Kershaw? Or wait, those guys ARE the greatest prospects in history.

But saying things like Kevin Youkilis is a "30yo who just made the majors" and Dustin Pedroia had "an average year" is, to say the least, blatant homerism. (And thta is called "being kind".) Especially considering all the "Matt Kemp is the most amazing baseball player ever" drivel, which is a bit of a shock considering he only beat "average" Pedroia by .014 OPS points last year. Apparently the dividing line for average and the Hall of Fame falls somewhere between .828 and .842.

The whole "Matt Kemp just started playing baseball yesterday afternoon" angle is a bit overblown, especially since you actually seem to think his novelty is actually an advantage.

Don't pretend Sox fans' enthusiasm is preventing you from having an intelligent baseball discussion. THAT is not what is holding you back..."

Who's calling Billingsley 'the greatest prospect ever'? Please, do tell. And if you consider me saying that the Dodgers werent willing to trade Billingsley for Agon or Felix people considering him the greatest prospect ever, then you need help.

Once again, I said Id trade Billingsley straight up for Felix, but the Dodger organization wont.

And if you dont think Kershaw was one of the best prospects in at least the last ten years, then you need to do some research. Ask about any poster on this site and they will say that Kershaw is expected to be in the Felix/Lincecum class, and soon.

Oh, and Billingsley and Kershaw arent prospects, they are both established MLB pitchers.

Youk has been in the majors for 5 years. However, he only started getting a large number of ABs three years ago, at age 27. To feel he was a late bloomer, even if it was because of how the Sox organization treated him is not a stretch.

Now Pedroia. For most 2B, he had a great year. For the class that many feel he is in, he had an average year. He hit 296 this year. Here's something to think about. If you take out his career year in 08, his career average is 297. Is he a bad 2B, hell no. Is he the best 2B in the majors, no. Is that what you wanted to hear?

And please, when Did I say Matt Kemp was the most amazing baseball player ever? Please, do tell.... thats what I thought, never.

And when have I said I: "think his novelty is actually an advantage"

Oh, Im waiting for your responce

is this not perfect for the mets? He is young and cost controlled for 2 more years. If you can get him for holt and havens, which is definitley reasonable, then they deffinetley have enough to go after holliday/bay and jackson would be the top pithcer available on the free-agent market besides lackey if he was a FA

"Now Pedroia. For most 2B, he had a great year. For the class that many feel he is in, he had an average year. He hit 296 this year. Here's something to think about. If you take out his career year in 08, his career average is 297. Is he a bad 2B, hell no. Is he the best 2B in the majors, no. Is that what you wanted to hear?"

That's actually a pathetic example of double talk.

"Oh, when I said he was average, I meant average for an elite player."

Ummm no.

Bottom line, you get too worked up simply because some fans have a different view of their prospectsthan you do. Well DUH!! They're FANS! That's what FANS DO.

And whether or not Billingsley or Kershaw are established MLB pitchers - and why is Kershaw an established MLB pitcher with 278 IP and Buchholz a prospect with 190 IP? - is immaterial.
Every fan has biases towards their own team, and thinking you are taking the high ground by calling out any single fan base when you are clearly jus tas guilty is the issue here...

" and why is Kershaw an established MLB pitcher with 278 IP and Buchholz a prospect with 190 IP"

because Buchholz has never pitched more than 92 innings in any one year in the majors. kershaw has pitches 107 and 171. Kershaw has posted an ERA under 2.7 as a starter for a full year in the majors, Buchholz's lowest for more than 4 games is 4.2, and that was in just 16 games.

Pretty sure the only person I have seen on this site call Kershaw overrated is Red Sox Dynasty.

I'm not sure why you think the Dodgers would be the team to turn down a Felix/Billingsley deal. Sure, Felix is going to be quite pricey soon (especially beginning in 2012), but for 2010, I'd probably wager Felix will make around $9 million and Billingsley $2 million. Not a big difference considering performance.

The Tigers projected rotation for 2010 is supposed to be:
1)Verlander
2)Jackson
3)Porcello
4)Bonderman
5)Robertson - the only lefty

Bonderman was our #2 until he had a freak injury, so hopefully two years will be enough time to recover. If an emergency starter is needed there is:
Galarraga - good in 08/bad in 09, but cheap
Bonine- looked good but only in limited starts
Miner- average starter, but will usually in the bullpen

As a Braves fan living in L.A., i have the severe displeasure of being surrounded by dodger fans. Billingsley is a mess. At the beginning of the season, I thought he was an ace, no doubt. So far he's just really let the Dodgers down. This season is make or break really, if he can't pull it together, i don't see him bouncing back. Kershaw, on the other hand, is an absolute stud. If he can just cut down walks, he's going to be one of the best pitchers in the majors without a doubt in my mind.

Whether or not they feel Buchholz is overrated is immaterial. Buchholz himself will settle that matter on the mound. But more important, just how exactly is the Sox fans enthusiasm any different than yours towards Billingsly or Kershaw? Or wait, those guys ARE the greatest prospects in history.

But saying things like Kevin Youkilis is a "30yo who just made the majors" and Dustin Pedroia had "an average year" is, to say the least, blatant homerism. (And thta is called "being kind".) Especially considering all the "Matt Kemp is the most amazing baseball player ever" drivel, which is a bit of a shock considering he only beat "average" Pedroia by .014 OPS points last year. Apparently the dividing line for average and the Hall of Fame falls somewhere between .828 and .842.

The whole "Matt Kemp just started playing baseball yesterday afternoon" angle is a bit overblown, especially since you actually seem to think his novelty is actually an advantage.

Don't pretend Sox fans' enthusiasm is preventing you from having an intelligent baseball discussion. THAT is not what is holding you back...

Posted by: notin | November 10, 2009 at 08:49 PM

LOL

Nice job, taking shots at the best center fielder in baseball this year, and a 21 year old who put up a WAR in the mid 4s and struck out over 9.5 batters per 9 innings this year. Forgive me, but the only thing you can say bad about Kershaw is the fact that he walks a cr@p ton of a people. The thing about that, though, is that he allowed the least amount of hits per 9 innings in all of the MLB. Call me crazy, but that seems very special to me.

Kershaw>>>Buchholz
Kemp>Ped this season.

I'm not sure if you were trying to make a case for Ped being better than Kemp this year, but he really, really was not.

As a Braves fan living in L.A., i have the severe displeasure of being surrounded by dodger fans. Billingsley is a mess. At the beginning of the season, I thought he was an ace, no doubt. So far he's just really let the Dodgers down. This season is make or break really, if he can't pull it together, i don't see him bouncing back. Kershaw, on the other hand, is an absolute stud. If he can just cut down walks, he's going to be one of the best pitchers in the majors without a doubt in my mind.

Posted by: Ray King's KFC Leftovers | November 11, 2009 at 03:04 AM

You saw what Billingsley did from the beginning of the season till mid-June, it was no fluke, he is studly. But he is just 25 and he is returning from a broken leg, so he wore down and let relative inexperience get to him in the 2nd half. I'm not saying it wasn't his fault he was bad in the 2nd half, because it was, and he was terrible at points. But I am very confident he will have a very good season in 2010 and return to 2008-mid 2009 form.

What's with all this Dodgers/Red Sox noise in here? Who cares? This is a Tigers thread. You LA/Boston guys go get your own space.

I think the Tigers need to bite the bullet in 2010 as well but as '09 proved you can be mediocre and still compete for a division title. Their recent history of bad contracts (Willis, Robertson, Bonderman, Sheffield, Ordonez etc,) is reason alone to let Polanco go and hopefully they'll let "the crooked hat" take his overrated 37 saves elsewhere too. Keep Lyon to close and give Sizemore some rope at 2B. I'd love to see them get Figgins to push Inge off 3B or fill the hole in LF. Guillen is a DH at best now. Keep EJack (unless someone blows them away with an offer) and concentrate on bullpen depth and possibly an upgrade at SS. How cool would it be to steal OCab from the Twinkies for a year or two?

I'm not giving up on the 2010 Tigers just yet.

Edwin Jackson obviously had a great year last year, but he was inconsistant before then. He struggled towards the end of last year, and maybe that will continue. He would be a good pick up,but you might have to give up a lot to get him.

Sticking by the Pirates being a dark horse to get them. Don't underestimate Huntington.

Capps and Jaramillo would be the focus of the trade. Capps would give Det the depth they may be losing with Lyons, Jaramillo is an upgrade and cheaper than Laird.

I realize this wouldn't be enough for E-Jax. The pirates would include a mid-level prospect like Gorkys Hernandez or Daniel McCutchen.

Curious what Tigers fans would think of the return.

Capps does have value.

But trading Capps, Jaramillo and prospects for a starter that they will only have for two seasons in which they don't expect to contend anyways just doesn't make much sense.

I think that you're more likely to see Capps and Duke get dealt than the Pirates adding much more beyond Iwamura.

"Capps does have value.

But trading Capps, Jaramillo and prospects for a starter that they will only have for two seasons in which they don't expect to contend anyways just doesn't make much sense.

I think that you're more likely to see Capps and Duke get dealt than the Pirates adding much more beyond Iwamura."

If Capps does have value, its not very much. The guy had a 5.8 era last year. To give an example of his value just look at the J.J. Hardy trade. The Brewers decided to take an underachieving center fielder with great defense and no hitting over Capps. If Capps had any value the Pirates would have dealt him at the deadline last year. If he comes to the AL that era could raise another run or two.

I wouldn't mind getting a deal done that would net us McCutchen, but Capps and Jaramillo have little value overall for the Tigers.

Capps's ERA, Whip, and opponents average is a cause for concern.

Jaramillo is a good player, but we've got Alex Avila battling for the starting spot already. In 2-3 years more likely then not Avila will be the Tigers catcher. Jaramillo is just a stop gap solution, if any solution, for the Tigers.

They would be better served hanging on to Jackson, or picking up different players then Capp and Jaramillo.