Yankees Not Pursuing Lee Yet

2:58pm: An official tells Marc Carig of the Star Ledger that the Yankees have yet to discuss trading for players at the deadline, including Lee.

THURSDAY, 2:07pm: ESPN.com's Buster Olney hears (via Twitter) that the Mariners and Yankees have had "zero" discussions about Lee. That doesn't mean that they won't discuss the lefty in the future, but we now know that talks have not begun. Olney reminds us (via Twitter) that the Yankees have passed on the chance to trade for top pitchers before.

WEDNESDAY, 5:49pm: A rival executive tells Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports that, despite the Yankees' effective rotation, he expects the team to be "undeterred in their pursuit of Lee on the trade market." According to Rosenthal's sources, the Phillies discussed Lee with the Yankees last winter prior to trading the left-hander to the Mariners. The Yankees had been willing to include Montero in a package for Lee, but that was before both the Vazquez trade and the emergence of Hughes.

3:56pm: A Yankees official told Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News that the team has no urgency to do anything with their rotation, which isn't necessarily at odds with King's report below.  In other words, the Mariners might like the Yankees to get involved on Lee, but so far they're not.

More interesting is the team official's suggestion that only three players have been made available across baseball so far, and Lee is not among them.

8:03am: The Mariners are preparing for the Yankees to pursue ace lefty Cliff Lee, reports George A. King III of the New York Post.  King says the Mariners have already scouted the Yankees' Low A and Double A clubs and aim to watch their Triple A squad soon.  King spoke to a "person familiar with Seattle's thought process" who believes Jack Zduriencik will seek Triple A shortstop Eduardo Nunez as well as one of the Yankees' minor league catchers.  King suggests that the Yankees would need assurances that they could sign Lee to an extension if they're required to surrender Austin Romine or Jesus Montero.

King believes renting Lee would hold appeal to the Yankees despite their strong rotation.  The Yanks' boast a front five of C.C. Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Andy Pettitte, Phil Hughes, and Javier Vazquez, and it's not clear who they'd bump for Lee.  The most likely candidate, Vazquez, has a 2.73 ERA in 33 innings since returning from a break on May 12th.  Trading Vazquez to clear a spot for Lee seems convoluted to me.

With Nick Johnson potentially out for the season, an offensive addition would be more fitting.  To that end, King says the Yankees have scouts following the Astros in case Lance Berkman becomes available.  Berkman is still owed $11.2MM heading into today's action, however.


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225 Comments on "Yankees Not Pursuing Lee Yet"


101andCounting
5 years 2 months ago

The Yankees don’t need Cliff Lee anywhere near as much as they need to make a big offensive move, either from within the organization or at the deadline. Konerko, maybe? He’d make a nice fit at DH/1B.

I think it’d be incredible if the Rays were to get Lee, though. Talk about giving the AL East a run for its money. It’s anybody’s division this year… well, except Baltimore.

5 years 2 months ago

Yeah man. I think Paul Kornerko would be a good move for the Yanks.

Zack23
5 years 2 months ago

You are away the Yankees are #1 in MLB in Runs, #1 in MLB in OBP, and #3 in the AL in SLG.
But they “need” a big offensive move?

Fangaffes
5 years 2 months ago

Well, yeah. Sometimes despite all that, they get outscored sometimes. They should increase the payroll to 1/4 billion and make sure no one EVER has a chance against them. It’ll be great for baseball.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

It certainly wouldn’t be BAD for baseball.

5 years 2 months ago

yankees cant give up their future especially with jeter and posada are getting older

5 years 2 months ago

yankees cant give up their future especially with jeter and posada are getting older

jumbletron
5 years 2 months ago

The last thing the Yankees need is another DH/1B-type player. Besides Tex, who will heat up btw, they have an aging Posada and at some point Jeter will slow down and have to move positions. Both of them will be DHing in the future.

5 years 2 months ago

Aww geez. I really don’t like the idea of the Yanks giving up Montero, Romine, or Nunez for Cliff Lee. These are kids who are potentially the future of the Yankees. Montero has Piazza power. Romine is Posada Jr. with better defense. And Nunez is a hitting machine and a .300 hitter with speed and good defensive tools for a shortstop.

If I had to choose to keep one I would choose Montero because raw talent is a commodity. Although I would love Cliff Lee as our new #1 or #2, I think the Yanks should be wise and either give up very little or wait until the offseason and save our prospects.

5 years 2 months ago

Good defensive tools? Nunez had 33 errors according to the link, last year in AA. Montero I would love to have, but a LT deal would have to be signed first I think. Jesus is V-Mart…fair outlook?

ellisburks
5 years 2 months ago

You might as well give up Nunez, isn’t Jeter going to be your SS until 2020?

5 years 2 months ago

Jeter will be playing ss on a wheel chair in 2020 like that kid from the video game Backyard Baseball

TheAlmighty
5 years 2 months ago

KENNY GAMAGUCHI IS THE MAN!

Just_MLB
5 years 2 months ago

didnt the yankees learn already, u must build from within?

jeter/posada/mariano/bernie/petitite all came from inside the farm system…

lee is already 33 years old…this team seems built to collapse very soon…and its gonna be very ugly…

yankee stadium is going to look like wrigley field minus the loyal fans

Guest
5 years 2 months ago

That’s an absurd comment. Cliff Lee is currently 31 and he will be 32 in August.

Just_MLB
5 years 2 months ago

yes…absurd…i was off by a year and 2 months…

5 years 2 months ago

Oh please.

The Yankee farm is making a comeback. Phil Hughes/Joba/Cervelli/Gardner. And soon you’ll see Jesus Montero, our hitting prodigy.

And our “old guys” are players who age gracefully. I know all the Yankees haters only dream of an aging ineffective Yankee team but I can tell ya that it ain’t gonna happen anytime soon.

Cubs are poo poo.

Just_MLB
5 years 2 months ago

out of that whole pack, Hughes is the only real deal…
joba’s velocity has gone from 100.5 mph in 2008…to 95 mph in 2010..of course there was the surgery he had, which i think really affected him…they completely destroyed that kid’s arm…whats his ERA now ?
gardner may become a damon-lite…
its far too early to say that cervelli is going to stick around…his glove is good and he has a good arm…

the point is…those old guys…namely jeter/mariano/posada…need replacements…and dealing montero nunez, or romine is not a good solution…

the yankees just dealt 2 of their 3 top prospects ( jackson, vizcaino ) and the year before dealt jose tabata….

of course ur going to sign carl crawford and/or jason werth…so who needs a 21 year old learning the ropes…

Zack23
5 years 2 months ago

“of course there was the surgery he had”

Except he didnt have surgey

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Dealing those prospects for Lee, we can all agree, is not a good move. They are not short pitching, and Lee will be available for purchase without any loss of prospects in 6 months.

The rest of your superstitions about young talent and building from within? Not so much.

5 years 2 months ago

to begin with i dont think the yankees will pursue crawford or werth

brett gardner is doing excellent. i mean hes better than jacoby ellsbury in his first full season

pretty damn good…huh?

ah how the times change since march

1. dodgers will pick up an ace at the deadline
NOT HAPPENING
2. red sox will aquire adrian gonzalez at the deadline
NOT HAPPENING
3. yankees will get werth or crawford during offseason
APPEARING NOT HAPPEN

5 years 2 months ago

by age gracefully, you mean, they are ahead of the game on the roids front, right?

rangers_rule
5 years 2 months ago

they age well from a little help from medicine (roids). The best money can cover up.
At least they were sorry.

bbxxj
5 years 2 months ago

I don’t buy the “Yanks won with their homegrown players last year” arguement. Sure Jeter, Mo, Posada and Petitte all came up with the Yanks but all were resigned as FA or given FA sized extentions. The Yanks get to keep their own stars forever and buy other team’s stars at the same time (CC, Tex, Burnett, Damon, etc). To win a WS the Yanks had to use a three man playoff rotation only for the first time in history and all three were signed as FA the previous offseason. Not a single under team control, traded for, or even extended pitcher got a start in the playoffs. Only two lineup regulars were under the team’s 6 year control period and one was arguably their worst player (Melky)

So please, the Yanks NEED free agents (even their own that they sign after their control period is over) and large contracts assumed in trades (Swisher, A-Rod) to win. When you look at what is actually happening it is fairly obvious that the Yanks aren’t and haven’t in a decade won with home grown players in a building from within sense.

Not that it will really matter to lose their prospects but it doesn’t make any sense to trade for Lee when your rotation is fine for ’10 and you are a lock to sign Lee in the winter if you do in fact want him.

Zack23
5 years 2 months ago

So basically when Yankees resign their own guys it doesnt count as homegrown players, and when they make good trades it doesnt count either.

The 22m left on Swisher’s contract was so unbearable only the Yankees could trade for him. How about you just say Cashman made a good deal and Kenny Williams is a moron?

bbxxj
5 years 2 months ago

“So basically when Yankees resign their own guys it doesnt count as homegrown players”
-They are still homegrown players but isn’t really a building from within type efficiancy because they are now paying full price.

“and when they make good trades it doesnt count either.”
-Sure they count and yes they were good trades.

“The 22m left on Swisher’s contract was so unbearable only the Yankees could trade for him.”
-22m was a ton of money for a guy who was struggling at the time like Swisher.

“How about you just say Cashman made a good deal and Kenny Williams is a moron”
-Ok, Cashman made a good deal and Kenny Williams is a moron.

Look, I’m not saying that the Yankees did anything wrong or they have built a team the wrong way. Heck if I were the Yankees I would be doing things the exact same way. However, just because the Yankees are paying full free agent price to veterans who came up in their system it does not mean they are building from within with home grown talent. The Yankees won the WS with the best free agents money could buy and the ability to keep the best Yankees around to play with them, and it was perfectly legal and obviously successful.

Zack23
5 years 2 months ago

Again, why does paying guys who you drafted or who were signed as IFA doesnt count as home grown guys?

And yes Swisher was struggling, that’s why good teams look at tools such as BABIP, LD%, etc, and make good buy-low deals instead of giving Adrian Beltre a contract after he blows his previous years out of the water.

bbxxj
5 years 2 months ago

They are home grown guys obviously and I said that. They cease being ‘built from within’ when you have to pay to retain them durring their free agent years. There is a difference in a team with home grown players and a team built by a farm.

5 years 2 months ago

That’s just stupid. EVERY team that develops players on their farm system has to pay them REAL salaries once they’re established. Or didn’t Smoltz, Glavin and Maddux count as home-grown players for the Braves? Every one of them signed a contract comparable to a free agent contract.

Fangaffes
5 years 2 months ago

Agreed. A homegrown player is homegrown until they play for somebody else, regardless of how many times you have to sign them to a new contract.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Sure that’s true by one standard, but that standard is irrelevant to the context of this discussion – SPENDING. The Yankees are set apart by their ability to BUY talent.

“Homegrown” in this context is using a different standard UNRELATED to spending. Do you see why?

“The Yankees don’t just buy all of their talent; these players are homegrown”. Sure, Jeter was brought up with NY, but most other teams couldn’t RETAIN HIM after 6 years service time. They Yankees could because of their SPENDING.

So, leaving aside whether or not the Yankees spending is even a valid criticism (IT ISNT), this man’s distinction about homegrown talent is still completely correct.

“They have homegrown talent that they paid $20m to keep” is NOT a sound counterargument for a criticism that they just BUY talent. Not hard to figure out.

ellisburks
5 years 2 months ago

Maddux nor Smoltz count as “homegrown” as neither of them were drafted by the Braves nor did either of them spend a significant time in the minor leagues of the Braves. Maddux was a free agent and Smoltz was traded for Doyle Alexander.

manes86
5 years 2 months ago

This is just dumb. So you’re saying a team’s farm system basically has to come together within consecutive years for a team to be built within. Yea, that’s real practical. It’s near impossible. No matter how good a team’s farm system is, they need to fill holes with trades and free agency. And that ‘paying for home grown talent’ viewpoint is absurd. I guess you can count the Cardinals out, since they had to pay ‘market’ for their ‘home-grown’ Albert Pujols. The same will go for the Braves when they have to pay Heyward. Your argument fails. Zack23 is right on.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

You need to be more precise. The argument that they Yankees are bad/stupid/unfair/whatever because they spend more is wrong and stupid, plain and simple.

The argument he’s currently making is correct: that it makes no sense to call Jeter et al “homegrown” as opposed to BOUGHT because Jeter WAS bought after 6 years and that makes the distinction moot.

As soon as he or anyone tries to make the connection from that second argument to some version of the first one, they are dumb and should be told so. But not before then.

bj82
5 years 2 months ago

BS argument, teams that win the WS do it with a mix of players. Do you think the Marlins won having a low payroll. When they won in 97, they went out and bought around 5 players. (Alou, Sheff, Lieter, ect) If you want to win in a consistence basis you need to spend money, in either you own players of free agents or both.

You leave out and forget that almost the whole bullpen have home grown, but that doesn’t matter, Yankee haters are all blind.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

This person is correct that “homegrown talent” in the context of these discussions means players who were developed by the organization and either have fewer than 6 years service time or are playing out a contract they signed when they had fewer than 6 years service time. The homegrown distinction is about money.

One cannot correctly connect this to any criticism of the Yankees M.O. re: free agents or money spent, though, and shouldn’t try.

5 years 2 months ago

But would you agree that the core/backbone of the Yankees is mostly built from within? I understand where you are coming from, though I like to use the term homegrown talent more generally than you do.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Sure, I don’t think there’s any room for disagreement about the composition of their roster; anyone can look it up.I don’t have any problem with the term homegrown per se either. The problem I was clarifying is that “homegrown” is being used to denote two different things in this discussion which makes people look like they’re disagreeing when they’re not.”Homegrown” is what players like Jeter are, but they are not useful examples of “homegrown” when one is trying to make the argument that the Yankees don’t just achieve their success by outspending others. (Because players like Jeter COST big money, so homegrown no longer means “inexpensive”.)That’s all.

5 years 2 months ago

Now that I agree with.

RogerNDB
5 years 2 months ago

3-man rotation? First time in history? Sorry, but you are wrong on that one. Several teams have employed 3-man rotations and the first one that comes to mind is the ’84 Tigers (Morris, Petry and Wilcox).

Don’t make stuff up to justify your comments.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

…Except that when it “collapses”, they can just buy more top talent. Which is why it is not true that they must build from within. And they’ve proven that over and over.

Good that you cited Bernie Williams, though. I’M convinced!

Guest
5 years 2 months ago

Cashman better have his (A) game if the Mariners propose a trade. I’m not keen on the Yanks trading their minor league strengths for someone who in theory, is a 3 month rental. However, I remember MLB Trade Rumors doing a round of the 2011 free agent pitching class and it ain’t looking too hot. Pettitte is having a dominant year and you have to wonder if he departs like Mussina did a few years ago. Pettitte appears to be on pace for a 20 win season or something close to it. Javy, should be an interesting piece at the end of the season. Likely will not resign, but I am interested to see what happens with him from here. CC and AJ will be entering year 3 of both their contracts.

In theory, in 2 years, the Yanks will have CC and Hughes. With more than half of the leagues top young arms locked up to extensions, there will be limited top pitching available for the next few years.

I’d like to see the Yanks look at Grienke before anything. The Royals are not going anywhere.

I’m not sure how I feel about Konerko or Berkman. Great players indeed, but for the Yanks, despite public opinion, could be a waste of money.

PRKnight
5 years 2 months ago

My thoughts exactly. I feel Montero, and Romine are too important for the yanks right now especially with Jorge in his later years. If the yanks wanted, i would have them trade preferably j.r. murphy with a bunch of others the M’s might want and then trade Javy. In my opinion i would only dangle Montero for Grienke or any other young dominant SP

East Coast Bias
5 years 2 months ago

Haha Greinke going to a big market will destroy him. New York especially!

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

Yeah Greinke has that anxiety disorder or something, I don’t think he’d be able to handle the scrutiny of NY very well.

Although I am on board with keeping our top prospects, I read recently that Montero’s defensive skill look improved this year, and if he can pan out to a average-below average defensive C, then his bat will look all the better. (I know he’s struggling offensively right now but I fully expect him to turn it around)

BravesRed
5 years 2 months ago

Lets compare Lee to Peavy. Peavy was in the once horrible NL West, and he did good. He went to the AL Central and he’s getting destroyed. Lee is in the weakest division in baseball, the AL West, where he is doing good. Put him in the AL East with the Rays, BoSox, and rarely said Jays, and he will get eaten alive. I think spending money and prospects on Lee is a waste of time.

Don’t worry NL West fans, I did put the “once horrible” in that statement.

5 years 2 months ago

Dude he’s proven himself. He owned the Yankees in Game 1 of the WS. And plus he’s pitched excellent this season in all his starts. He’s a solid pitcher, almost if not better than CC. He’s a confidence pitcher though. He pitches to his full potential only when the team he’s playing for is having a good year.

BravesRed
5 years 2 months ago

Your statement is irrelevant, and here’s why: He’s in the worse division in baseball, the AL West, so he will be a good pitcher, but put him in the AL East and he will be eaten alive. Put CC in AL West and he’ll probably have an ERA below 2. And what does pitching against the Yankees in the WS have to do with playing for them?

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

If he can dominate the Yankees, and if the Yankees were the best in the AL East, then it stands to reason he can dominate the AL East. Even if he didn’t do well against Boston, he did pitch very well against Toronto and TB the last 3 years.

BravesRed
5 years 2 months ago

Just because you can dominate against one team doesn’t mean you can dominate against another team, so that makes your statement irrelevant also.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

Again, it wasn’t just one team. He dominated TB and Toronto too.

BravesRed
5 years 2 months ago

Besides this year, Toronto hasn’t been good for many years, and Lee hasn’t faced Toronto yet. Besides this year and and 2008, Tampa Bay haven’t been good, and I forgot, Lee is 0-2 against the Rays this year. Thank you for letting me disprove your statement.

KCUF914
5 years 2 months ago

Yeah he’s 0-2… with a 3.38 ERA and a complete game.. .238 BAA.. Thank you for letting me disprove your statement.

BravesRed
5 years 2 months ago

You just contradicted yourself on your own statement. In the same statement, you tried proving me wrong, when you’re wrong yourself.

R_y_a_n
5 years 2 months ago

Um, those are pretty good numbers.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

Nice try but no cigar. Is the AL East the best division in baseball or not? If so, why is it the best (and give the years and teams). No matter how you answer, I can show you how Lee did very well against those teams (except for perhaps the RS). What I originally said is that he dominated the Yankees, TB, and Toronto the last 3 years (2007-2009). Except for TB in 2007, all those teams those years were good to very good. So you are wrong. This year, he is dominating Baltimore (of course), and very good against Tampa (3.38 ERA in 16 IP despite an 0-2 record). He has yet to pitch this year vs. the Yankees or Red Sox (which is why I used last 3 years). So, no, thank YOU, for letting me disprove your statement. BTW, name me one starter, besides Halladay, who has a better record against the AL East from 2007-2009. Your original statement that Lee will be “eaten alive” in the AL East is patently ludicrous. The stats say otherwise.

BravesRed
5 years 2 months ago

The reputation of the AL and NL East division are the dominate ones of the MLB, AL and NL Central are the second strongest, and the AL and NL West are the weak ones. That is reputation, you know it, I know it, and these people know it.Everyone can be the Orioles, I bet the Royals can go into Baltimore and sweep them. He’s pitched 8 innings in each start, but he is also averaging 3.5 runs in each start, which by my calculations isn’t even a quality start.Not Cliff Lee, especially going 7-6.He might be eaten alive this season. I don’t know and you doesn’t know, so that makes both of our statements ludicrous.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

“he is also averaging 3.5 runs in each start”

Huh, what time period are you referring to there? Are you talking about his two starts against TB this year? If so, he averaged 3 ERs/8IP per game, which certainly constitute quality starts.

“Not Cliff Lee, especially going 7-6.”

Huh? What are you responding to? I asked for starters better than Cliff Lee against the AL East the last 3 years. How is that answer relevant? And are you going by wins and losses, one of the most misleading ways to judge an individual starter? Use ERA, WHIP, but if you fallback on W-L record, then you are in the dark ages.

“He might be eaten alive this season. I don’t know and you doesn’t know, so that makes both of our statements ludicrous.”

Of course anything is possible. But the stats are clearly against you and support the opinion that at the very least he’ll be good overall vs the AL East. “Eaten alive” implies failing spectacularly and there’s nothing over the last 3 years to suggest he would do that. So the record is against you.

5 years 2 months ago

Seriously dude your argument is rediculous. Cliff Lee was a late bloomer coming up in 2003 and was great for the Indians In the AL Central. Won a Cy Young. Was traded to the NL East and brought his team to the World Seriese dominating and winning every game through the playoffs up until his last game in the WS. Again, was traded to the AL West. Started the year with and injury and is now pitching great. What merrit do you have saying he would be eaten alive in the AL East? He’s been a amazing pitcher since day 1. Go back to crying about the yankees not having home grown players. (Posada, Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Cano, Gardner, Cervelli, Melky, Hughes, Joba, Nick Johnson, Pena, Robertson,…..)

BravesRed
5 years 2 months ago

Before calling someones statement ridiculous, learn to spell it. If you call I believe an ERA of around 5ish as great, then you need to stop coming on this site. I’m not exactly sure what a World Seriese is, but I guess you mean World Series. If you call averaging over 4 points a game as great, once again, you need to leave. Of course he would do good in a division like the AL West, they are the weakest. By the way, it’s merit and you should look up what it means before you use it in a sentence. I’m not the one that cried over anything about the Yankees. And Melky is a Brave now and the only one earning their paycheck out of that list is Cano. Rivera makes I believe $16 million a year, and no reliever needs that much, let alone be worth that much. If you think what Jeter is doing now is worth $22 million, then leave. I forgot, Hughes deserves what he is making, plus more.

5 years 2 months ago

RULE #59: An argument is lost once the participant reaches for spelling and grammar attacks.

So it is written.

Seriously dude, everyone else is backing up their arguments with stats and facts while you keep repeating yourself by saying “well… uhhhhhh… the AL East is better the the AL West.” Great. Wonderful. Terrific even. Just give it a rest please.

Zack23
5 years 2 months ago

Funny how you mention he owned teh Yankees in Game 1, but didnt say he gave up 5 runs to them in his next game.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

He actually pitched very well in his second game vs. the Yankees, not giving up the last 3 runs till the 8th inning when his team already had a big lead. He beat the Yankees in both those games too.

Boz
5 years 2 months ago

this is beyond the most ridiculous argument I have ever seen. do you even follow baseball?

the AL West is a better hitting division than the NL West or the AL central, with facing the lineups of the Rangers and Angels (7th and 8th most runs scored in baseball this year).

and to top it off, Lee used to dominate the AL Central (referring to your comparison with Peavy) when he was with Cleveland.

getting Lee for a rental is foolish for this year but if we can lock him up (like Tim stated) then it is more than worth it. (especially with the futures of Vazquez and Pettitte unknown)

getting a bat is what we need. I think Berkman would be a great fit. he had a slow start and his cost would be down. (he has started to turn it on this year, so we know he still has plenty left in the tank). Konerko would be a great fit as well.

BravesRed
5 years 2 months ago

You don’t have to agree with my statement on them being the worse division in baseball, but frankly, I don’t care. I stick by my statement.He dominated the AL Central one year, which would be a CY Young award year.Why give up a top-5 prospect plus more for 3 months, when you can sign him in the off season and not give up any prospects? I rather give up two draft picks instead of giving up a top-5 prospect.Yankees don’t need hitting, they’re in the top-10 for each category on offense. What they do need is another decent arm for that bullpen, especially when only two of them have an ERA below 3. We all know Mitre isn’t going to keep that ERA below 3.

5 years 2 months ago

Citing ERA as a reliable stat this early in the season for a reliever is….bad. In general, it’s just a bad idea (one bad outing could ruin your ERA for the rest of the year.)

Take Joba for example. He has 20 scoreless appearances on the year. In the 7 in which he has given up runs, he has given up more than a run in 4 of them. (2 once, 3 two times, 4 once). If you ask me, I think Joba has been very good, overall, for the year.

BigKev88
5 years 2 months ago

and people say basebasl is broke.

soxfan0928
5 years 2 months ago

Please, please, go get Cliff Lee, Yankees. Boston would love absolutely nothing more. Since 2007, Lee has thrown 4 games vs the Sox, going 0-3 and posting a 5.76 ERA. Boston will be licking their chops to have another go at Lee, especially in the division! In his majestic 2008 campaign, he gave up 5 runs in 7 innings vs the Sox. So please, go get him Yankees.

Guest
5 years 2 months ago

This is coming from a fan who’s team signed a guy to an $85mm contract that has a perpetual sub 5.00 ERA in Lackey.

soxfan0928
5 years 2 months ago

Do you know what you just said? You just said he’s got a constant below-5.00 ERA. That doesn’t seem too bad to me…let the grown ups use the big words buddy.

Maaaac
5 years 2 months ago

who cares what century said, you know what he meant

lackey has absolutely been a disappointment so far this season

soxfan0928
5 years 2 months ago

Yeah he’s been a disappointment, I can’t argue that, but if you’re going to talk trash at least know what you’re saying. And Lackey’s success has nothing to do with Cliff Lee’s success in NY, which is what my original comment was about, but typical Yankee fan to avoid the topic and bring up something irrelevant just to try to get a swing in.

Maaaac
5 years 2 months ago

you don’t know me

i was simply pointing out the fact that he clearly meant lackey has been pitching just under a 5 ERA for the season, which for someone who is getting paid 85million and typically pitches just under a 4ERA, is somewhat of a disappointment. Though with a hot stretch, that can all be changed quickly, his 6 wins ain’t to shabby

Going back to your original post…..it is silly to say you would prefer the Yanks have Cliff Lee based on his short sample size of pitching against the Sox. Most of of which came before he really broke out as an elite pitcher.

soxfan0928
5 years 2 months ago

What do you mean I don’t know you? I was talking about Century talking garbage, not you. Why would it be silly for me to say Go ahead and drop extra money on Cliff Lee? I’d much rather see them pick up a pitcher who the Sox have a great history against than to have 2 players who are cheap and going to be great hitters one day. He is much less of a threat to the Sox than Montero is.

Maaaac
5 years 2 months ago

“typical Yankee fan to avoid the topic and bring up something irrelevant just to try to get a swing in”

that was in reply to my post, so excuse me if you did not intend it to be

But i suppose we disagree. Cliff Lee is a big time pitcher and you are basing his ability to pitch against the Sox off 5 starts and 30 innings, which is ludicrous. Montero has yet to prove anything, has shown he probably won’t be capable of being a catcher in the majors, and is batting .216 in AAA right now. So if I were a Sox fan i would be much more concerned about the Yanks gaining a second Ace.

soxfan0928
5 years 2 months ago

I mean I can only go off of what I have seen, and thus far I’ve only see the Sox rake against Lee. Whether or not that holds consistently in the future, who knows, I’m just saying that the team that we have right now has been successful vs C. Lee. Lee is throwing well now, so who knows. But as a Sox fan, I wouldn’t at all mind seeing Lee in pinstripes. He reminds me of Burnett in that he does well outside of Boston, but against the Sox he struggles. Halladay is the same way. In the last 3 years, he’s 6-7 with a 3.74 ERA, and that’s not taking into consideration his 9.53 ERA this year vs the Sox, overall in his last 3, he’s 53-28 with a 3.08 ERA

5 years 2 months ago

Yes…his 9.53 ERA, which came from a single start.

Stop making yourself look stupid, buddy. Over the last three years, 53-28 with a 3.08 ERA? I will take those numbers 11 times out of 10.

Guest
5 years 2 months ago

Seems like you said too much yourself, but I still don’t see how my use of wording was incorrect, that is, to you. Sub 5.00 = below or around 5.00. I didn’t say a close 4.00 or a consistent 3.75. I didn’t say 5.00 even, because that would have been incorrect and too high ultimately. Sub was not the key work in my comment. Perpetual and the number 5.00 were.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

“Sub 5.00 = below or around 5.00.”

Mmm, nope. Just means below. Why even try to talk your way out of it? You misspoke. Big deal.

ellisburks
5 years 2 months ago

I would rather have Lackey who has a proven track record of winning in the AL and in big games than Vazquez who has a 4.59ERA in the AL over 5 years and a 5.07 ERA with the Yankees over 43 games.

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

Except you’re trying to use 4 starts vs. 1 team as your topic, it’s a bit ignorant to try to use that small of a sample size to make a prediction on how he’s do in the future.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

“It is not a bad idea to trade for Cliff Lee because John Lackey sucks.”

Right-o.

Boz
5 years 2 months ago

lets pick apart those 4 games you are referring to
4/27/09 8IP 0ER 5 hits (most recent…lol)
9/23/08 7IP 5ER 8 K (not a great start)
7/26/07 4IP 7ER (this was the last of 4 straight losses right before he went on the DL for a month during an injury plagued year where he pitched only 97 innings) not to mention Manny was the one that did the most damage going 3 for 4 with 4 RBI.
5/28/07 5IP 3ER (see above about injuries this year. and what do you know many hit a HR against him)

considering the most recent outing was against the team that most resembles the current red sox I am sure the Yankees would gladly take that.

Cliff lee career vs current red sox team
ellsbury .125 avg
scutaro .333 avg(decent avg with a good number of ABs, no power)
pedroia .364 avg(see scutaro)
vmart (no ABs)
youk .200 avg
papi .238 avg
beltre .154 avg
cameron 1 for 3
drew 2 for 4

soxfan0928
5 years 2 months ago

That’s fine. Go get him!! We’ll rip him to shreds just like we have the past 4 outings. You can make an excuse for 1 outing, but you can’t make an excuse for 0-3 with a 5.76 ERA. That’s 4 outings over 3 years. Give me a break. Pull the wool from your eyes, the Sox own Cliff Lee.

Maaaac
5 years 2 months ago

4 outings over 3 years and you consider that a large enough sample size to say the Sox “Own” him?

Hahaha, keep living in your nonsensical baseball dream world if it makes you feel better about yourself

Maaaac
5 years 2 months ago

felix hernandez has a 4.59 ERA against the Yanks in 5 starts and i am not saying the Yanks own him or that i want him to go to the Sox

hahaha

Boz
5 years 2 months ago

what numbers are you looking at? obviously you are just spewing out your @$$. if you actually looked at the stats i wrote you would realize how stupid you sound right now.

soxfan0928
5 years 2 months ago

By the way. Lets look at your “stats”, ok? Lets just take a quick look.

Scutaro – Avg .353, OPS .860
Pedroia – Avg .500, OPS 1.181
Ortiz – Avg .222, OPS .652
Youk – Avg .250, OPS 1.104
Drew – Avg .500, OPS 1.500
Beltre – Avg .154, OPS .423
Hermida – Avg .333, OPS 1.000
Ellsbury – .250, OPS .750.

What happened with those “no power” numbers? I guess Scutaro’s .860 OPS and Pedroia’s 1.181 OPS shows no power at all, huh?

Get a clue, dude. Get a clue.

Boz
5 years 2 months ago

not sure where you made up your stats from but….

pedroia has a career .364 avg (4 for 11) and .871 ops (1 double, no triples or HRs) vs lee, not sure what stats you are looking at
scutaro has a career .333 avg (7 for 21) and .869 OPS (2 doubles, no triples or HRs.

like i said…no power.

source: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7026/batvspit;_ylt=AhfctnnYZJnk9NrCFiAqkA.FCLcF?year=career&type=Pitching

5 years 2 months ago

Drew is OPSing 1.500 against Lee in 2 at bats!!!!! Two words “Sample Size”!!!!

alphakira
5 years 2 months ago

Yet another reason for a cap. This needs to happen yesterday, this is getting ridiculous.

Zack23
5 years 2 months ago

Yet another reason for a floor. Owners stashing money in their pockets is getting ridiculous.

(Bot side can play this game)

5 years 2 months ago

Actually, I agree with both of you. I think there ought to be a cap and a floor, so there!

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

As bad as a cap would be, a floor would be even worse. I think I’ve learned my lesson trying to talk economics on this board, tho.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

I don’t mind a floor. As long as there is a cap. And I believe most owners would agree.

The idea that the owners of small-mid sized clubs are putting money in their pockets instead of into the team is unfounded.

Just_MLB
5 years 2 months ago

how about we get transparency ?
i wanna know how much money these small town owners are putting in their pocket..

not a yankee fan but i can respect the Boss trying to win as opposed to just trying to make a buck

dickylarue
5 years 2 months ago

So the Yankees spend money and we need a cap, but there’s no outrage over all the money ownership is pocketing and refusing to reinvest in their teams?

Get off the high horse. The Yankees and Red Sox are the only teams in baseball willing to pay these guys what they are worth and both teams still make profits.

The reason the so called “small market” teams don’t spend is they don’t want to spend. They could all lock up their homegrown stars and keep them from hitting the market but they don’t. They rather keep as much of the money they have coming in as possible.

What they haven’t realized is they could make more money by fielding winning teams and keeping their stars than by playing baseball welfare.

Except for Tampa, who has the worst fans in the history of baseball. How that team with that talent can’t get more than 20 thousand people to show up every night for a home game is a disgrace.

That team should be ripped from that area immediately.

Washington DC just proved last night that if you give the fans a product to come see, they’ll fill the stadium to standing room only levels.

5 years 2 months ago

Not a Rays fan, but get off your high horse there buddy. Lets see them sell out his starts there for the rest of the year, and then you can talk. One game doesn’t mean squat. Wow! They came out to see his MLB debut! Big deal. And you won’t see that stadium full again, the rest of the year. Bank on it.

dickylarue
5 years 2 months ago

Every Strasburg home start will be sell outs. Bank on that.

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

Except Strasburg is one of the most hyped (and rightfully so) players of all time, of course more people are going to show up to his starts if he’s getting more media attention.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Yeah, no. You don’t need to compare Tampa to any other park to know it is embarrassing. Washington being embarrassing too (it isn’t) wouldn’t change the facts in Tampa.

Guest
5 years 2 months ago

Have to agree with you dickylarue. Its a bit of a disgrace that the Rays can only get btw 7,000 and 10,000 seats filled on an average night. I’ve been thinking about this all season. It’s a damn shame and those turds(fans) down there, don’t deserve that team.

dickylarue
5 years 2 months ago

The Yankees aren’t going to trade for Cliff Lee. Cashman is adamantly against “paying twice” which is why they didn’t seriously attempt to trade for CC or Johan when they were on the trade blocks. He’s against paying in prospects and then offering the guy a huge extension and he’s right.

They waited out CC to hit free agency and it worked. I don’t see him doing an about face for Cliff Lee when they have 5 healthy and effective starters right now.

What I sense this article is, is a love letter to Cliff Lee to remind him that the Yankees will pursue him and offer him big money in free agency in the off season and that he shouldn’t sign an extension with a team that acquires him via trade this year.

The Yankees have sent similar missives through the press and back channels to Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth already.

They’re just reminding these guys that if they want top dollars for their skills and want to be Yankees, the Yankees will be there waiting at the end of the season for them.

Just as Javier Vasquez starts to go on a roll and pitch how the team thought he would/could, I doubt they are going to trade Lee, stuff Javy in the pen and ruin the chances of getting 2 draft picks for Javy since he would surely lose his type A status as a long man in the bullpen.

The only thing I could see them doing is a 3 way trade where they send Javy packing and picking up pieces the M’s want for Lee.

If that happens, Cashman deserves GM of the year for turning Melky and prospects into Vasquez and then into Cliff Lee.

Outside of that, I think this is a lot of noise intended to remind Lee and his agent that the Yankees are waiting and their checkbook is ready this off season.

Bernaldo
5 years 2 months ago

Not a chance that the Yankees have sent anything through “back channels” to any pending free agent like Crawford or Werth. Mr. Cashman is way too smart to risk any tampering charges and there is no reason whatsoever for him to engage in stupid behavior like that. The Yankees privately may be interested in either or both players if they become free agents but you can be absolutely certain that they are not in contact with the players or their agents – “back channel” or otherwise – because they are stupid enough to do that. The Phillies and the Rays would be able to claim damages (players, monetary penalties) that would even make the Yankees cry uncle and MLB would no doubt levy stiff penalties in fines and lost draft picks that would cost the Yanks dearly.

dickylarue
5 years 2 months ago

By back channels, I meant through the media. There was a ton of press when Reggie Jackson went out to lunch with Werth this spring. I’m not saying Reggie told him the Yankees will sign him, but teams use the press to alert pending free agents that there is interest.

It’s subtle, but it’s done often. This article today tells Lee and his agent the Yankees are interested and also helps the M’s tell the Yankees, you have what we’re looking for in a trade.

Guest
5 years 2 months ago

I agree again. However, Jason Werth will not be playing on the Yankees. I’ve said this countless times. My buddy went to school with him and Uggla. Werth has 2 or 3 places he prefers. All of those need a guy like Werth. I’ll give a hint on one…SF Giants.

Maaaac
5 years 2 months ago

100%

that checkbook is going to be signing checks for Jeter, Mo, and pitching to replace Pettitte/Vasquez

i don’t see them throwing the money at crawford or werth

Mitch_Cole173
5 years 2 months ago

Don’t be surprised to the the Red Sox make a play for him. Wakefield’s terribly inconsistent, Lackey’s been a bit of a dissapointment, and Dice-K is, well, dice-K. I only wonder what Seattle would ask for. I pray not Kelly, Westmoreland, or Buccholz. Anderson, maybe if the deal’s right, but other than Westy he’s our only power hitter in the system.

dickylarue
5 years 2 months ago

No one is asking for Westmoreland. The kid just had brain surgery. His concerns far exceed a career in baseball at the moment.

Mitch_Cole173
5 years 2 months ago

Good point. Wasn’t thinking about that. But still, I can’t thinkof who Seattle would want in exchange for Lee. Maybe Doubront and Anderson, Kalish, or Reddick would be a starting point?

dickylarue
5 years 2 months ago

The Red Sox may have to put up Kelly if the M’s are seriously asking for Romine or Montero from the Yankees.

The only reason the M’s would trade Lee is if they can recoup what they feel is better than the 2 1st round picks they would get for Lee when he leaves as a free agent.

Reddick’s a non prospect to anyone in the know. He’s a 4th OF at best.

I could see some interest in Lars and Kalish though since they project offensively and the M’s are a team that is in desperate need of offense.

I still don’t think those 2 guys get you Cliff Lee though.

Mitch_Cole173
5 years 2 months ago

So, unless the yanks start offering Montero and/or Romine, an offer may look like this:

To SEA: Felix Doubront, Lars Anderson/Ryan Kalish, Che-Hsuan Li, Alex Wilson
To BOS: Cliff Lee

Doubront has really heated up this year. He earned himself a promotion to Pawtucket after playing all of last year in Portland. he’s continued to tear it up since his arrival, and projects to be a solid 3-5 starter. Anderson and Kalish are the main offensive threats in the package, and the Mariners would probably like a chance to have these guys in their system seeing as their an offense starved team. Li is a guy you may not know about. The kid has great fielding ability, reads the ball well, and has some pretty good speed. He’s got some petty good ofensive potential, as long as fixes his swing a little bit (he tends to lunge at balls, causing him to minimize his bat speed and he therefore tends to chop the ball). Wilson is one of those guys who may or not make it, but is a decent pitcher to have in your system.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

You are a crazy person. Or, if any trade for Lee is made, Theo is. If he’s resigned, it’s a crazy amount of money to lock up in an 30+ rotation. If he isn’t resigned, it’s way too high a price for a rental.

BentoBox
5 years 2 months ago

Put down the Kool-Aid.
Per SoxProspects, those are the
Doubront (6)
Anderson/Kalish (2/3)
Lin (11)
Wilson (18)
Your giving up THAT much for oh about 2 months of Lee ?

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

However unlikely it is that the Yanks will trade for Lee, it’s about half as likely the Sox will.

They’ve got an overpaid over-30 staff already, and if they weren’t willing to part with prospects for Adrian Gonzalez et al, they’re not going to part with them for 2 months of Cliff Lee.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

I’ll say it again, if the Yankees “buy” Cliff Lee over the winter, they will have bought the top 3 free agent starters over the last several years, and it will be the biggest argument for some sort of effective salary cap.

Hopefully Pettitte continues to pitch well so the Yankees feel compelled to resign him and make it less likely they pursue Lee.

dickylarue
5 years 2 months ago

So the Red Sox buying Lackey, Beckett and Dice K (for over 100 million) is okay though, right?

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

It’s not the buying of big free agents per se that’s the problem. It’s being able to spend 50-70 million more than any other team in baseball. That’s the problem. The buying of Lee (after having just bought Sabbathia, Burnett and Teixeira) is a symptom of that problem.

dickylarue
5 years 2 months ago

Every team in major league baseball can spend. The owners, in most cases, are billionaires.

They choose not to spend to increase their revenue.

How about knocking off the small market violins until baseball actually shows you revenue numbers for these so-called small market darlings who barely survive and have to have fans pull them up their bootstraps to support the local team.

That’s a myth. Baseball makes a lot of money. Ownership is cheap.

You don’t think Seattle could afford to lock up Cliff Lee long term right now?

You don’t think the Phillies could afford to lock up Lee and Hallyday?

Give me a break. Both teams had/have the revenue to sign him. They just don’t want to cut into their profits.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

“Every team in major league baseball can spend.”

Of course they all can spend. If they couldn’t they wouldn’t be in existence. But they all can’t spend near an equivalent amount. Some can spend 200+ million a year. Some can only spend maybe 25% of that. That is the problem.

dickylarue
5 years 2 months ago

How do you know some can only spend 25% of 200+ million? Where are your facts and figures to back that claim up?

The only advantage the Yankees have are ownership willing to spend what it takes to keep their star players and sign free agents and a fanbase willing to pay some of the highest prices in the game like the Boston fanbase does.

If a team like the Padres, for instance, who are often called small market yet exist in one of the most expensive areas to live in the country, started investing in their team and kept Adrian Gonzales and stopped dealing away their stars, they might actually create a powerhouse team there that the city would sell out on a nightly basis thus turning them into a large market team overnight.

They have a brand new ball park. They have a rabid fanbase that wants to know the team will be built to win and not exist to be torn apart every trade deadline.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

“How do you know some can only spend 25% of 200+ million? Where are your facts and figures to back that claim up?”No one has facts and figures to back up their position on either side of the argument. You don’t nor do I because the owners don’t make the numbers public. What we do have is circumstantial evidence — the fact that teams go under or go into debt while spending relatively little on payroll … and the fact that the commissioner’s office goes through the finances of all clubs before spreading around revenue sharing money.”The only advantage the Yankees have are ownership willing to spend what it takes to keep their star players and sign free agents and a fanbase willing to pay some of the highest prices in the game like the Boston fanbase does.”Absolutely wrong. As I was trying to tell ReverendBlack in another discussion, it has nothing to do with willingness but everything to do with geography and demographics. The Yankees can spend so much more because they operate in a huge demographic market with a huge cost of living and a built-in large corporate base that can afford to pay the high ticket prices and other costs necessary for the Yankees to sustain such a large payroll. “If a team like the Padres, for instance, who are often called small market yet exist in one of the most expensive areas to live in the country”You are so wrong there it’s not funny. Not only does the SD area lack the corporate base that NY has, but its population is about 1/6th the size of the NY metropolitan area. The cost of living is also significantly lower than the NY City area.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Pearls to swine, dicky. Good luck talking any sense into this guy.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

Maybe if you took the time to read what I say instead of always trying to come up with a lame abrasive comeback and play semantic games, what I say would make sense to you.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

=*(

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

Wow, lame abrasive attempts at wit … semantical games … now pure keyboard gibberish? What’s next?

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Another dozen unnecessary comments from you, I’ll bet!

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

Another stab at personal insults — your specialty since you have nothing better to say. (And no real answers.)

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

11 to go.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

And for every comment I’ve made, you’ve made a useless one.That’s 1 more for you.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

10 to go.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

Another for you.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

; )

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

; )

ellisburks
5 years 2 months ago

I agree with you CaseyB. You have to realize that the Yankees have quite a few advantages. First is that they have the largest population in the US. Then the highest standard of living. The huge amount of tax payers money that went into the new stadium that frees up money. The money that they get through The Yes Network and then dump into the team helps out. As well as the other things you mentioned in your post.

It is not to say that the other teams don’t have money to spend but The Yankees have way more revenue streams than most teams and that allows them to outspend them.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

That’s how markets work, hoss. The greatest demand for the greatest talent ends up with the greatest payroll. Go figure.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

And sport is not meant to be based on pure unfettered economics. That’s your problem. You don’t understand that.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Right, because it’s “not fair”. And it’s “not fair” because “it wasn’t meant to be”. And it “wasn’t meant to be” because it’s “not fair”. Spare this thread your shenanigans.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

Tsk-tsk. You flunk reading comprehension.

It’s not meant to be based on pure unfettered economics because it’s meant to be played on an even playing field. Now repeat that 50 times to yourself since you can’t ever remember that I’ve said it a gazillion times.

You are not circular. You are just blind and repetitive.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

“It’s not meant to be based on pure unfettered economics because it’s meant to be played on an even playing field.”

Why is it meant to be played on an even playing field?

“Because that’s what the NFL and NBA do”

Why do they do that?

“Because it’s not fair to have an uneven playing field”

Why is that not fair?

“Because that’s not how sport is meant to be played”

Welp.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

Again, jr. You flunk reading comprehension. I’ve never said it’s meant to be played on an even playing field because the NFL and NBA do it that way. Why doh’t you go back, read my posts a couple of dozen times, then come back to me when you’ve got my position straight. OK? And if you don’t understand anything, ask. Don’t just make it up. That makes you look foolish which you are doing a great job of!

Guest
5 years 2 months ago

Fact 40% of the owners in Baseball have higher net worths than the Steinbrenner organization.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

And show me where relative net worth is relevant to this discussion. Do you honestly believe Steinbrenner uses his own pocket money to run his team? I don’t think anyone believes that but some misguided fans.

The Yankees wouldn’t be spending money like this if their demographic market couldn’t sustain it.

Guest
5 years 2 months ago

So then what’s your point. You seem to be bitching about the Yanks spend to much, but then go on to say the market we’re in supports the payroll?

And net worth is relative in some regard. Meaning there are many wealthy owners who have profitable businesses outside of baseball. They need the money as much as I need an ulcer. Steinbrenner may not go to the hip for funding the team, but his baseball operations, including the YES network are incredibly profitable. He could line his pockets like many others or drop what appears to be, most of the revenue back into the team. So yes, net worth does apply. None of these owners are broke. Well, except for the gold digging witch over in LA right now. That lady is going to put the Dodgers out of business. I wouldn’t call the Rangers broke either, not at this point. Quite frankly, I have no idea what the hell is going on with that team and ownership down there.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

“So then what’s your point. You seem to be bitching about the Yanks spend to much”

The point is the system. It’s broken. My issue isn’t so much with the Yankees spending what they have, it’s with a system that allows one team to spend so much more than any other.

“Meaning there are many wealthy owners who have profitable businesses outside of baseball.”

Yes, and so does Steinbrenner. But no owner including Steinbrenner regularly takes from other businesses to feed their baseball operations. That’s not how you run a baseball franchise.

“…his baseball operations, including the YES network are incredibly profitable.”

Yes, and Steinbrenner is a smart businessman. No denying that. But all the smarts couldn’t make a regional sports network work the same way in a market like KC or MN the way it works in NY. Not even close.

“He could line his pockets like many others or drop what appears to be, most of the revenue back into the team.”

Yankees fans like to say this all the time. I guess it makes them feel better. But there is no evidence that the owners of the small-mid sized market teams do that any more than those who run the Yankees do (ie, big salaries and compensation).

The idea that the Steinbrenners dip into their personal wealth to fund the likes of Sabbathia and Teixeira (and Jeter, Rivera etc etc) is ludicrous. They don’t. So why should the owners of the other teams?

5 years 2 months ago

Reports are released yearly on how much revenue a team makes, so yes, there is evidence that small-mid sized market teams do do that. You can infer from that how much is spent on the team. You’d be shocked to see some of the numbers. I think the Padres have the largest disparity between the revenue they make and the amount of money they spend on the team.

link to tartans.blogs.cbssports.com

These are the 2008 revenue values. Take a look and compare some salaries. I know it was back in 08, but a point can still be made.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

Jon, that person is using Forbes numbers which I am well aware of. You do know that Forbes doesn’t have access to the real numbers, don’t you? And that they don’t even include the numbers for regional sports networks there. Their numbers are at best guesstimates with major holes, therefore. Since the RSNs are a major source of the economic disparity, any source that doesn’t even include them is pretty much useless.

5 years 2 months ago

They’re numbers are very close to the actual values. When I can find the MLB figures, i’ll get back to you.

And, it’s been written and said time and time again about revenue sharing and revenue in general-owners are pocketing much more money than they should be.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

“That’s a myth.”

You really don’t know what is a myth and what is not a myth. You just like to say it because it fits your argument.

dickylarue
5 years 2 months ago

I do know that the supposed small market Twins, owned by one of the richest men in the country, suddenly found the money to spend on Mauer when faced with losing him.

I also know that the Cardinals found the money to sign Holliday for more than he was offered by anyone else and will find even more to sign Pujols.

The money is there. The tightwad owners don’t like spending it.

The Yankees may make more revenue than other teams, but you cannot be suggesting that baseball turn to communism/socialism so every team makes the same amount of money every season and divide it equally. Or are you suggesting such a ridiculous concept?

All a salary cap will do is put less money in the players pockets and more money in the owners pockets.

You think the owners will cut their prices if a cap is introduced and give back savings on player salaries to the fans?

Not likely.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

“The money is there. The tightwad owners don’t like spending it.”Yes, the money is there to take on one or two big contracts. Here’s the difference between the Twins and the Yankees: The Twins sign Mauer to a big contract but in order to do so have to be economical elsewhere and couldn’t have afforded to also retain Santana. The Yankees would sign Mauer to a big contract PLUS do whatever it took to retain Santana. And the Cardinals can give Holliday and Pujols big money but then that’s about it. The Yankees can give a Holliday and a Pujols big money BUT they can then throw mountains of cash at Jeter, A-Rod, Sabbathia, Burnett and Rivera as well. No other team can do that. That’s the difference.”you cannot be suggesting that baseball turn to communism/socialism so every team makes the same amount of money every season and divide it equally.”Of course not. I am suggesting they adopt some form of effective salary cap like the NFL and NBA have. “All a salary cap will do is put less money in the players pockets and more money in the owners pockets.”Incorrect. It will do a lot more than that. It will help to make small-to-mid market teams more competitive, and revitalize baseball in some of those areas.

5 years 2 months ago

While I agree that these teams will become more competitive, I still think that, year in and year out, with the occasional year or two of mediocre play, the Yanks, Red Sox, Dodgers, Phillies, etc. will all still be at the top. I just don’t see a cap changing that.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

Oh, wow. Do you really think that if the Yankees were limited to spending like most teams today (about 150 million) they would have won the WS last year or even come close? Do you really think if teams like the Royals and Pirates could spend 150 million a year, they wouldn’t be perennial contenders themselves (thereby reducing the competitiveness of those other teams you just named?). If so, then we have to agree to totally disagree.

5 years 2 months ago

If that limitation exists, then do you believe that player salaries would look remotely similar in that world to the way they look now? They wouldn’t.

In fact, I argue that, in such a world, the great players would have even MORE incentive to play in places like Boston, LA, and New York. If you’re making less money on your contract, you want to be in a place where it’s an endorsement heaven, no?

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

“You think the owners will cut their prices if a cap is introduced and give back savings on player salaries to the fans?”

What it will do is slow down inflation in baseball so some of the savings will be passed on to the fans eventually.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

“You don’t think the Phillies could afford to lock up Lee and Hallyday?”

I have never suggested otherwise. Please read what I wrote. Not what makes you feel good to say.

Again, the problem is NOT the signing of pricey free agents per se. It’s being able to have a huge payroll advantage over every other team.

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

The Yankees brought in 174MM more than the 2nd place team last year, what would you have them do with all of that extra money?

(and last I checked the Red Sox weren’t “50-70 million” behind in payroll)

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

Maybe the Yankees should lower their ticket prices. They aren’t even selling out this year because the ticket prices are so high. You know, give that money back to their fans, especially the ones who can’t afford to go to the new YS in this economy. That’s just one suggestion. Right now the Yankees are spending roughly 50 million more than the Red Sox. Last year the advantage was around 80 million. So what’s your beef with what I said?

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

Lowering ticket prices is a good suggestion, I don’t really see them doing that though, and I apologize for my parentheses in my last comment, I thought the Red Sox were closer to the 175MM mark, but further research shows they are ~44MM behind the Yankees.

Guest
5 years 2 months ago

You’re right Dicky, Red Sox fans oddly don’t count their own signings or players.

Guest
5 years 2 months ago

Really there were some pretty large contracts handed out over this past winter break. Don’t remember the Yanks participating in any of that.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

…I don’t know if you should really bother pretending the Yanks don’t outspend by an impressive margin the rest of the league. You should just say “damn right and they also win championships”.

caseyB
5 years 2 months ago

So one winter when they didn’t go hog wild mitigates the fact they bought the three most expensive free agents over the last couple of years??? I don’t get it.

5 years 2 months ago

Tigers could be a major player for Lee if they are still in the race, especially considering the left-heavy Twins, and assuming Tigers willing to part with one of Casey Crosby or Jacob Turner. Big assumptions but I see it far more probable than the Yankess trading for Lee given their pitching depth.

Maaaac
5 years 2 months ago

I agree there needs to be some changes in baseball, I am just not sure if a “cap” is the way to go. More incentives for players to stay with their current teams when they become free agents, more revenue sharing or penalties for spending over a certain amount of $$, possibly even giving small market teams more ways to get draft picks.

There is no easy answer, but the financials of baseball are very different than in the NFL and NBA.

5 years 2 months ago

Just more evidence that the NY Post is worthless toilet paper. There’s no way the Yankees are in any way interested in a trade for Lee. Hernandez, maybe. He’s worth making room for, especially with the Mariners not going anywhere soon, and Pettitte, despite his performance this season, pushing the age bracket and a possible retiree at the end of the season.

Guest
5 years 2 months ago

I think there is one thing everyone on here can agree on regarding Lee. The team he currently plays for has been a huge disappointment this season. I’m a Yank fan and I was thoroughly impressed with their GM’s bold and ruthless moves this offseason. I was definitely a fan and expected way more from the team on the field. They have the pieces, they have the right manager. You have to wonder if voodoo Bradley has something to do with this. It still just makes no sense to me. Yeah, they need a bat or two, but they shouldn’t be this bad.

Ferrariman
5 years 2 months ago

i love how yankee fans get so defensive whenever people accuse their team of being a large market team that buys players. THAT IS A FACT

Yankeefan4life
5 years 2 months ago

Starting pitching for the Yankees has been excellent for them and is getting even better with Vazquez starting to come around. The Yankees don’t need Cliff Lee during the season. The Yankees need another quality Bullpen arm.

levendis
5 years 2 months ago

what the Yankees need is bullpen help. They have one of the best rotations, and lineups in baseball. Joba, Robertson, etc. have not got the job done.

Jonathan Gallo
5 years 2 months ago

Joba and Robertson seem to be good looking at non-traditional stats like WAR and FIP

BentoBox
5 years 2 months ago

Are you talking about David Robertson ? Dude has a -0.1 WAR this year although SSS. His FIP is 4.91.
Joba has an insane FIP of 2.21 and a WAR of 0.8.