Odds & Ends: Mets, Inge, Reynolds, Angels

On this date in 1974, the Yankees and Giants swapped Bobby Bonds and Bobby Murcer in one of the many deals that had Bonds packing his bags. Now, the Yankees and Giants are preoccupied with something else entirely: trying to reach the World Series. Here are today's links…


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79 Comments on "Odds & Ends: Mets, Inge, Reynolds, Angels"


BravesRed
4 years 10 months ago

How can Sabathia get $161 million, but Lee will only get $150? I think Lee can become the first pitcher to ever average $27+ million in a season.

Sniderlover
4 years 10 months ago

Which is a ridiculous overpayment especially for a guy that’s already 31 years old at 6yr/150 mil much less 27 million. I can only see Yankees being the only team to bid that much but even then, that’s a huge chunk of payroll he is eating up and you can’t really expect him to pitch how he is pitching right now to the age of 37.

CC got that contract when he was what? 27? They are paying him through 27-33 which are considered prime years.

Hermie13
4 years 10 months ago

FYI, Cliff Lee is actually 32 already

Sniderlover
4 years 10 months ago

Haha even worse but thanks for the correction.

Watch as Lee becomes one of the worst contracts in the league soon.

vtadave
4 years 10 months ago

Pretty simple really. Sabathia was three years younger than Lee will be this offseason when both became free agents. Plus, the “only” $150 million would be $2 million more per season than Sabathia received.

Hermie13
4 years 10 months ago

If Lee gets $27M a season it will be the worst contract in baseball history.

He’ll be 38 at the end of a 6 year deal.

At the end of his 7 year deal CC will only be 35.

HUUUUUUUGE difference because Lee is 4 years older than what CC was when he signed his deal (Lee is 32, CC was 28).

Also, CC has had a better track record with injuries…and his overall career.

Lee has been on the DL 3 of the last 5 years. CC went on the DL once in cleveland.

ToledoFan
4 years 10 months ago

Don’t worry Brandon, they will kick you out when Nick C is ready.

Civilization
4 years 10 months ago

We’re still waiting for Cale Iorg to be ready…

ToledoFan
4 years 10 months ago

But Iorg isn’t a can’t miss hitter like Castellanos has the potential to become.

Hermie13
4 years 10 months ago

Wait what?

“Iorg isn’t a can’t miss hitter like Castellanos has the potential to become” ???

Um….ok? You just said Castellanos has the potential to become a can’t miss hitter.

So do TONS of young players. Andy Marte was a can’t miss hitting prospect at one time

While I do think Castellanos is a better prespect than Iorg, the point that Civilization made is very valid.

Castellanos is just a high school draftee. Could be 4 years before you see him at the hot corner.

Motor_City_Bombshell
4 years 10 months ago

I am beyond intrigued by what Nick C can potentially give to the Tigers when he’s ready, which is why I’m strangely content with Brandon Inge being signed for two years. I think they’ll buy him out and give Nick the third base job in two years, but that all depends on his development I guess.

Hermie13
4 years 10 months ago

While anything is possible….I think 2 years is very, very optimistic on Castellanos being in Detroit. He fell in the draft not just cause of his high bonus demand, but because he’s not a truely elite prospect.

By saying in 2 years he’ll be in Detroit…..you’re basically saying he’ll be up as quick as Jason Heyward. He’s not in that class of player….not even close.

Roy Munson
4 years 10 months ago

Mark Reynolds for the O’s…. Because the Garrett Atkins move worked out so well fort them….

start_wearing_purple
4 years 10 months ago

Awesome, it means Clay Buchholz will bring his strikeout numbers up.

4 years 10 months ago

Here I thought his changeup was good enough to bring his strikeout total up…

4 years 10 months ago

Exactly. Declining numbers in the NL West…

kdub53
4 years 10 months ago

As cool as it would be to see the angels get cliff lee…sorry there is no way that is going to happen…
as far as the 4 players mentioned…there still more then likley going to pursue crawford..I dont see them landing Dunn or Werth

penpaper
4 years 10 months ago

As an Angels fan, I say hell no to Lee. If there is one free agent going after this offseason aggressively, its Crawford; and THAT may be a stretch depending on the contract length he’s given.

4 years 10 months ago

How about Mark Reynolds to the Braves for Brandon Beachy, Hicks and Stephen Marek.

I think in reality Chipper will only be able to play ~100 games and Reynolds could split 1st with Freeman the remainder of the time.

myname_989
4 years 10 months ago

I don’t have Insider, but apparently there was a rumor the other day on ESPN’s Rumor Mill that Cliff would take a pay cut to play for the Phillies, if they could make room for his salary (IE. Moving Joe Blanton.) Jason Churchill isn’t exactly the most reliable of sources though. Just thought it was interesting with all of these “he’ll go to whoever pays him the most” rumors flying around.

Hermie13
4 years 10 months ago

I’m pretty sure that’s BS.

Lee was very ticked the Phillies traded him. My guess is he’d rather play for the Nats than Phillies so he can pitch against them 5 times a year.

Lee is not signing with Philly.

myname_989
4 years 10 months ago

He was annoyed that the Phillies traded him. Who wouldn’t be? I’m sure it wasn’t that they traded him, but that they traded him to the Mariners, who in all honesty, were never in a good position to contend, despite people punching their playoff tickets because of the offseason they had. Cliff has answered to reporters several times that he would come back to play in Philadelphia. If anything, they both have reasons to be ticked at each other. The Phillies offered him an extension, he said no, they restocked the farm system. It’s a part of baseball, and he understands that.

I’m not saying that it’s likely, but the rumor makes sense to me. You can assume whatever you want, but Cliff has stated several times that he’d play for the Phillies again. He’s never across as the type of guy that wants to stuff his pockets, but as the type of guy that wants to win. You’d figure that if they could make room for him, and trade a guy like Joe Blanton, they’d make him an offer for at least 16MM a year, and he may be inclined to accept.

He’d realize as much as the next guy that a rotation of Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Roy Oswalt, and Cole Hamels would be one of the most feared rotations of all time, and would give him the best chance to win, and make money. The notion that he is “ticked” with the Phillies trading him is not true. Not to the point that he wouldn’t resign with them.

4 years 10 months ago

There is no way in hell that he signs a $16M per year deal. Even if you have a sentimental attachment to the Phillies, which I doubt, you don’t leave tens of millions of dollars on the table. He has made like a TOTAL of $17.5 over the past 3 years despite being worth $90M (Fangraphs). He deserves to cash out and he definitely will.

Any team that signs him is going to be a serious contender so he can both stuff his pockets and win.

myname_989
4 years 10 months ago

It boggles my mind how everyone speaks like they know Cliff Lee. I’ll counter that bit of illogical falacy with this: Cliff Lee is a simple guy from Arkansas. 16MM a year to him is like striking gold, and he’d be satisfied with that deal. In all seriousness, I don’t think it’s so ridiculous for a player to take a pay cut to sign with a team. Of course, that was a number I threw off the top of my head.

cubfan4life
4 years 10 months ago

If it boggles your mind how everyone is speaking like Lee is their buddy let me ask you this. Why did you just do it too?

ugen64
4 years 10 months ago

he was joking… when you follow a sentence with “in all seriousness”, that implies the previous sentence wasn’t serious… maybe Cliff Lee doesn’t have buddies like you because he likes people who can read :-). in all seriousness, I think Lee, like pretty much any player, would take a pay cut (not a huge one, but a couple million dollars a year and maybe a year or two less on the contract) to play for a top contender, as opposed to a wild card contender or worse. see: Beltre (had a better offer from the Athletics at least), Teixeira (Orioles), a few years ago Paul Konerko (also Orioles)… I mean heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Orioles made a big offer to Beltre and/or Lee this offseason, just as a formality.

myname_989
4 years 10 months ago

Apparently, you don’t understand phrases like “illogical fallacy” and “in all seriousness.” It’s okay though, I don’t hate. I think ugen64 summed up my thoughts nicely.

slider32
4 years 10 months ago

I don’t know what it is about Cliff Lee, but seasons stats don’t match up with his post season stats.

TwinsVet
4 years 10 months ago

The past 2 years of regular season have been pretty great. Before that… horrible. And we’re looking at 5 postseason outings. If it was 5 regular season starts with a sub-2 ERA, nobody would give it any statistical significance.

Lee could continue to be great. But he also appears to have an ability to be painfully average, and it wouldn’t be a statistical oddity, given his small sample size of success.

Hermie13
4 years 10 months ago

In fairness to Lee….he developed his cutter late in during the 2008 offseason….and he’s taken off since.

So while he was kind of average (and sometimes terrible) before 2008….not sure it holds a lot of weight.

alphabet_soup5
4 years 10 months ago

Think you mean 3 years…remind us who won the AL Cy Young in 08.

ugen64
4 years 10 months ago

it’s because he doesn’t have to face the Orioles in the postseason. this season they accounted for 31% of his earned runs.

woadude
4 years 10 months ago

Cliff Lee wont go back to the Phillies, they gave him away to the Mariners in a trade that made absolutely no sense, it would be one thing for a guy to know they made a move to better their team, but with what the Phillies took for Lee should of been illegal, he has a better chance of going back to Seattle than Philly and it still sucks they didnt even attempt to sign him long term, he said that surprised him most about Seattle…they didnt even try. Enjoy Justin Smoak though Seattle, still came out on top given you gave up Aumont and some other garbage for essentially him.

TwinsVet
4 years 10 months ago

Lee = Most over-rated pitcher in baseball.

He’s only had a sub-4 ERA the past two years. He has 5 great postseason outings – when someone strings together 5 great regular season outings, they’re not in line to be the highest paid pitcher in the game.

This is a guy who could easily become a 4.00 ERA pitcher next year, and it wouldn’t be a statistical surprise. In fact, it’d look alot more like his career average.

He doesn’t deserve to be paid anywhere near CC money. Given his age, he deserves something similar to Doc money – and even then, Doc has a MUCH longer track record of success. Lee *deserves* about $50M/4YR, but the fact he’ll get closer to double that just shows the market irrationality. Short memory spans and the false notion of “clutch” performance.

Hermie13
4 years 10 months ago

Past 3 years his ERA has been under 4. 2008, 2009, and 2010……counting is tough isn’t it? lol
Again, he developed that cutter and he has been at a whole new level ever since.
I do agree, IMO he deserves clsoer to Halladay money than CC….but he’s going to get closer to CC money.
Though easily can say he deserves everything that Santana and Zito got…..

I think 5yr/$110M is what he should get…..definitely getting more though.

Sniderlover
4 years 10 months ago

BTW, Halladay easily could have gotten more but he’s not a guy that’s all about money like Lee is. He just wants to win but if he hit that market, he would easily get a 3-4/25mil per type deal.

ryankrol
4 years 10 months ago

The Angels need to get themselves a leadoff hitter before they go splurging on someone like Adam Dunn.

With a good table setting, Dunn can generate a LOT of runs. He is guaranteed 100 or more RBI, and with his OBP, he creates a lot of RBI opportunities for players hitting behind him.

This is a big reason why I think re-signing Vladimir Guerrero would not have meant much. His OBP was about .345, and without Chone Figgins and Bobby Abreu creating runs at the top of that lineup, the middle of that order is dead in the water.

Even Kendry Morales’ OBP is a little low for a middle of the order power hitter.

cubfan4life
4 years 10 months ago

I agree with you. A high OBP leadoff guy is what the Angels need. CC should be the only big name guy that they go after this offseason. Werth and Dunn would not be as much help as one might think because with guys like Aybar, Izturis, and whoever else at the top of the order arent getting on as much as they should.

However if CC gets too expensive, and he very well could. A cheap option at least for the year might be a combo of Johnny Damon and Ty Wigginton.
Damon cant play LF everyday but can play it some. And who knows how much Morales will be able to play at 1B at least at the start of the year.

So giving Scoscia some options and shuffling 4 guys between LF, 1B, and DH those 4 guys being Damon, Wigginton, Bourjos, and Morales.

Damon still hits for a good average, and has been a high OBP guy over his career.
He wont steal as much but can still get on base. Hit .271 which was down just a bit but still had a .355 OBP and he is durable especially if he DH’s some of the time.

Thoughts?

ze3
4 years 10 months ago

What the Angels need to do is teach Bourjos to bat leadoff ( = get rid of Mickey Hatcher)

kdub53
4 years 10 months ago

i still say that you could stick morales at 3rd, and shop for the big batt first baseman..
you could lead off with bourjos aybar or izturis…(carl crawford too if they land him as well)
either way it would be a speedy 1-2 in the lineup…
then you would have some good power hitters to get the runs across the plate..
waldon is a great bring up as well and will help the pen next year..
still that #5 spot in the rotation is questionable…(be it kazmir or bell) as is the depth in the pen..
its going to require some strategic thinking for the management…they should hire me :)

stovin
4 years 10 months ago

Just because Reynolds had one bad year but still hit 32 homers dosn’t mean he is declining. He is still young and would become the orioles best power hitter. I think we should offer some of our young pitching for him. Not Matusz maybe Tillman. Atkins only hit like 9 homers the year before we signed him. Reynolds is not like Atkins.

Sniderlover
4 years 10 months ago

Might just be Beltre is more valuable due to his position, defense and he provided great production.

vtadave
4 years 10 months ago

Was Beltre a product of Dodger Stadium when he hit 48 home runs? I’d be far more worried about Beltre not putting up numbers in non-free agent years than being a product of Fenway. I mean, all the guy did AWAY from Fenway was bat .327/.370/.583.

ToledoFan
4 years 10 months ago

I hope the Tigers find a way to pay him. 60MM 4 years should do it. Might be overpaying a bit but I don’t see anyone bidding higher that needs a guy like Dunn as much as the Tigers do.

4 years 10 months ago

I don’t necessarily dispute or agree with the rankings, but I warn against anyone signing Beltre long term since the only times he has cleared .300 were in contract years with Boras as an agent.

4 years 10 months ago

Adam Dunn deserves to be paid? What 10+mil a year for the last 3-4 years isn’t enough for the lazy donkey? Yes he hits bombs but what does he do defensively or anywhere else other than a batter’s box? Sorry but if you ask me he is at his max annual salary right now.

He is a career .250 hitter who K’s 173.1 times every year. He had 199 K’s last year. Yes he has 354 career homers but he has 1632 career K’s.

Winning teams simply don’t commit big money to players like that. Reds got better once he left and if the Nationals let him go and stick to fundamental pitching and defense they too will eventually improve.

4 years 10 months ago

If the Angels take Beltre, they will definetly regret it.

cookmeister
4 years 10 months ago

you know that Beltre’s numbers this year were better away than at Fenway right?

TwinsVet
4 years 10 months ago

Still doesn’t explain a “best free agent HITTERS” ranking…

HowdyDoo11
4 years 10 months ago

yeah, Larry. Your team should know!

4 years 10 months ago

Who cares? We all pay to see the results of enhancement, admit it.

4 years 10 months ago

And to top it off Larry, isn’t it possibly more likely that someon like the beloved Roger Maris used enhancement? The guy averaged 19.6HR/yr through his career but hit 61 in 61…? While a guy like Beltre averages 21.3HR/yr over his career but only leaps to a whopping 48 in a single season…? Swallow the pill: enhancement has been around throughout baseball, it just evolves. Nobody ever wants to admit it, but it’s true.

Both seasons can also be considered magical seasons… Think about that.

TapDancingTeddy
4 years 10 months ago

Roger Maris and enhancement? You got pictures of him in a push-up bra?

Numbers anomalies have been seen throughout baseball forever. There’s no reason to expect enhancement every single time something weird occurs.

slider32
4 years 10 months ago

I think that about 60 to 75% of the players took enhancements to play. Heck when I played in the 60s and 70s most of the hitters were using amphetamines regularly. Look what happened this year with no amphetamines. The year of the pitcher. I’m an old pitcher, and I think the use of amphetamines, cut down your reaction time, and when you only have 4 tenths of second to hit a 90 mile and hour fastball that made alot of hiters major leaguers.

slider32
4 years 10 months ago

Sosa, Beltre, and Bautista all from the Dominican Rep. I may be they have some great enhancements available down there – HGH. Its all about the money!

vtadave
4 years 10 months ago

Yep, the Reds got better because Dunn left, not because of Joey Votto, Jay Bruce, etc.

4 years 10 months ago

Lazy Donkey = Classic

Hermie13
4 years 10 months ago

Batting average = useless.

Rays had one of the worst batting averages in all of baseball as a team….yet scored the 4th most runs.

Dunn knows how to get on base with walks. His OBP is always over .380-.390 and even over .400.

4 years 10 months ago

See, that’s just it, as slider32 points out: it may not have been “steroids” but it was something, but let’s not be ignorant and think that Testosterone enhancement or “steroids” weren’t around at the time. Amphetamines, pain killers, etc. As I stated: it evolves.

Teddy, read the last line of my post, I acknowledge anomalies.

It’s interesting to note that Maris 61 in 61 just so happened to be the year that Mantle (in the same dugout) went out for half a season due to an infection in his lower body from injecting PED’s.

4 years 10 months ago

I have posted this on here before: If I am paying you 5-10-20-33mm a year, you better be on steroids.

Cliff Lee, CC, etc. They better be on steroids. I want the highest quality product for my money.

This will be scrutinized, but it’s the truth. I have a son, I was a kid once, I understand the “Hero/Role Model” aspect of the game.

dire straits
4 years 10 months ago

Interesting. I would’ve guessed that amphetamines actually enhanced your concentration and reaction time.

Hermie13
4 years 10 months ago

Um….if amphetamines cut down on your reaction time….and hitters weren’t taken them now, then offensive numbers should have gone UP, not down.

Hitters rely on reaction time way, way, way more than pitchers do. I’m assuming you meant the opposite.

Amphetamines increases reaction time, allows hitters to turn on pitchers quicker and react. Thus why with no amphetamines, you get better pitching results……

Not sure I fully believe that, but what you said is definitely not true.

4 years 10 months ago

Thanks for the honestly Slider, solid post.

4 years 10 months ago

Ok, no. First A-Rod took them while in Texas. Andy Pettitte took HGH, a non-steroid, back in the 90’s. Nobody else took them within the past 10 years who’s been a Yankee or so, except for maybe Clemens. Say that I’m getting butthurt, whatever, but I hate that stereotype so much, nobody has taken them, so just move on. Amazes me, how mature people are these days.

Hermie13
4 years 10 months ago

Jason Giambi admitted to taking steroids when in a Yankee uni.

Every team had at least one on their team, even the pirates. People that dont’ admit that are fooling themselves.

HowdyDoo11
4 years 10 months ago

C’mon, Henry. Do you Honestly think that A-Rod took roids ONLY when he was with the Rangers? Please. The guy is a liar. Even behavior experts stated he was a liar when watching his body language/during one of his infamous “I took Roids” interviews. And, yes, Giambi was hooked so much on the stuff he came down with a nasty case of intestinal parasites because of it. Remember? I mean history is history – I agree, put the past behind us…. but facts are facts.

Hermie13
4 years 10 months ago

Disagree.

Steroids will erode your body. If I’m the Yanks and I gave CC a 7 year contract, I want him as far away from steroids as possible.

Hermie13
4 years 10 months ago

I bet 4 years, $55M is more than enough. 3yr/$40M is probably what he’s looking at. 4th year can probably be an option.

Guy is older than the last time he signed a deal and only got a 2yr/$20M or so deal from the Nats.

alphabet_soup5
4 years 10 months ago

If Albert Pujols has a headache before a game and takes 2 tylenol that’s cheating?

TapDancingTeddy
4 years 10 months ago

Yes, I read the part about anomalies, but it needs to be re-emphasized, not only by me but by everyone who is a fair person. People are raining down hatred on Jose Bautista because he managed to hit 50+ homers this year. I happen not to like him, as he seems quite arrogant for someone with only recently developed big time power, but I wouldn’t accuse him of anything without evidence. I wish it that no one else would do it either.

As for the Mick, I have to note that the PED’s and Mickey Mantle story is in one book, written by one person, and confirmed (as far as I know) by no one credible.You have to remember that by 1961 Mantle was having major trouble with both his knees (one much more than the other) and if he injected anything at all, it could’ve been nothing more than painkillers. Various painkillers are not prescribed by doctors because of long term effects, but athletes tend to not care about that. They will get them illegally and inject themselves to play another year or have a better season.Pete Gent wrote a lot about this type of thing happening when he was with the Dallas Cowboys.As for Slider32’s comments, I’m not going to dispute them, but I also won’t take them too seriously. He could be anyone, and allegations of such rampant PED use should be made where the accuser is not anonymous. This forum is clearly not such a place.

slider32
4 years 10 months ago

By saying they cut down your reaction time I mean that the hitter reacts faster. It’s a proven fact, besides making you more alert. That’s why truck drivers take them to stay awake. By reacting quicker,and being more alert you become a better hitter.

slider32
4 years 10 months ago

It’s like when your driving your car, and it takes you 1 sec. to take your foot off the gas pedel to put it on the brake. If you take your foot off the gas and cover the brake, you cut down your reaction time and will be able to brake faster.

slider32
4 years 10 months ago

There are some great articles on this subject, just google-amphetamines in baseball.

4 years 10 months ago

You, miss the point entirely.

Everyone in “baseball” cries about “steroids” but doesn’t even acknowledge how many players are most likely strung out on pain killers. Coritzone shot = Steroid. Do some research or pour the bowl on your plate and tell me what words are spelled out.

4 years 10 months ago

Excess of anything will shorten your professional life. But, getting a GD scientist and a lab to figure out what you need and being smart about it will prolong the life of any career.

Hermie, be honest, have you done any real research on this subject? John Mccain and the Old Guys in the Steroid committee know nothing about this topic yet they push propaganda into main stream media. Although, any documentary is actually propaganda, watch Bigger Faster Stronger the Documentary and see what’s up. Do some research as to why male children’s brains are developing less. Get some insight as to why Male Test levels are so low in comparison to history. Why do guys in their 20’s get b@#$h tits? Then, compare that to baseball or any sport for that matter.

I just challenge you to do some actual research on this topic.

myname_989
4 years 10 months ago

Although I understand what you’re saying, my joke of Cliff Lee being a “simple guy” was just to show that you can never assume what a player is going to do. Holliday wouldn’t have had the chance to test the open market if Colorado extended him. Lee made the same thing clear with the Phillies, which is why he didn’t sign an extension, which they offered him. After years of bouncing around, he wants to decide where he wants to play. Whether he takes a paycut or not to play there is completely up to him, and none of us readers know what he’s thinking. I’m not saying it’s likely, but that he himself said it would be a possibility.

TapDancingTeddy
4 years 10 months ago

Cortisone is available across the counter in some preparations. It is a steroid allowably injected under the MLB rules today. Many steroids are completely legal and safe for medical treatment.I’m sure you already know that, and know that there are no “enhancing effect” to these, except for the pain relief itself.As for athletes being “strung out” on painkillers that happens to some extent, but it is hard to define a term like “strung out” and separate it from “using.” Also there’s using legal stuff and illegal stuff, and of course, when you abuse the legal stuff it becomes illegal if the prescribing party has any knowledge of the abuse.My thinking there is more along the lines of Heath Ledger and Michael Jackson’s deaths than about athletes.The nature of sports and how fans react to what athletes take to help them is very hard to properly define. I feel there’s a lot to this subject that I can’t get to with my limited writing skills.

4 years 10 months ago

Ya Teddy, so is Insulin… Like I said, do your research on the subject.

4 years 10 months ago

You can dispute Slider’s, but try Sandy Koufax who admitted to pitching more times than he can count on pain killers and amphetamines. How about Willie Mays Red Juice? The Nazi’s were able to pump their soldiers with Testosterone in the 30’s and 40’s, but that couldn’t possibly be available to athletes when large amounts of money is on the line?

Dude, I’m done. I acknowledge what you are trying to aspire for here, but come on, you have access to more information at your fingertips than ever, and… I stand by my statistical analysis of Maris vs Beltre, stats say that Maris was more likely on PED’s than Beltre.

Also, just because someone has a script for things like Oxy and Adderall doesn’t mean it’s not a PED. You can alse get scripts for Test replacement, just so you know. I wonder how many MLB players are “diabetic”? Also a steroid, a VERY powerful one that anyone can get, Federal Law allows that.