The Angels and Jered Weaver have opened talks about a long-term contract extension according to team owner Arte Moreno, reports Mark Saxon of ESPN Los Angeles. Moreno also commented on the reported bad blood between the team and Weaver's agent, Scott Boras…
"My mother always told me, 'If you don't have something nice to say about somebody, don't say anything,'" said Moreno. "I don't have to deal with anybody I don't have to deal with. That's the way I live my life."
Weaver filed for $8.8MM in salary arbitration last week while the team countered with $7.37MM, as our Arbitration Tracker shows. Ben Nicholson-Smith called his case one of ten arbitration cases to watch just a few days ago.
The 28-year-old Weaver finished fifth in the Cy Young voting and made his first All-Star Game in 2010, pitching to a 3.01 ERA in 224 1/3 innings. He struck out 9.3 batters per nine innings and walks just 2.2 per nine. The 2010 AL strikeout king is scheduled to become a free agent after the 2012 season. GM Tony Reagins told Saxon that it's too early predict if a deal will be reached, but he did say "Any time you have dialogue, it's positive."
Begin* talks?
I hope something can be worked out. It has been a difficult relationship between Boras and the Angels, so i am not sure how the talks will go. I love Weaver, he is a really competitive guy with an edge to him that the angels need to have around. Plus he is a local guy, so it would be a great all around situation.
Hah I saw that too
If a deal gets done, it would take the edge off the miserable off season the Angels have had.
hahahah says a Mets fan
Does anyone have any faith that Reagins can get this one right? He’s got a giant hole to dig himself out of.
4/88 sounds about right!
No doubt he could get it done. Whether he overpays is an entirely different question. Weaver is good but he isn’t Verlander or Hernandez good.
They had better do something soon… Lock him up now And don’t wait till after 2012! If they let him go to free agency he’s gonna walk…we have been through and seen all this before!
best thing i’ve heard in a while
Hopefully something can be worked out, but it’s not likely the Angels will be getting much of a hometown discount obviously with Boras especially given his not so great reputation with dealing with the Angels, at least from rumors anyways.
Maybe they’re trying to solidify something while Weaver still has two years left so there isn’t as much tension and rushed feeling to getting things done.
“I don’t have to deal with anybody I don’t have to deal with. That’s the way I live my life.”
Tautology’s are dumb (and so is Moreno for allowing one of the worst trades in history to go down)
If dumb = billionaire I’M IN!
touchez
*Begin
Come on guys. It’s the headline. 😛
Weaver is borderline elite, if hes not already. This won’t be easy me thinks.
More like he had one borderline elite season with career numbers in basically every statistical category, and Boras will exploit that fact to no end in negotiations comparing him to Cliff Lee’s contract and etc. You’re right in that this won’t be easy, for the Angels that is.
I’m in agreement with you. I’m not sure that Weaver is an elite pitcher. If you can’t strike a reasonable deal this off-season then wait until the next one. Odds are he won’t repeat his 2010 campaign. If you pay for the 2010 version of Weaver there is a great chance that you will be very disappointed.
This should be an easy extension, its not like the Angels gave $80MM away for no reason recently…..oh wait
The Angels better fix this with Boras, Im not saying hes a great guy or anything, but just fake it till you make it with him. Like it or not, Boras represents some of the best talent in this league.
Maybe they can use him to pry Zito away from the Giants. Get it done Reagins!
If it doesn’t get done Angels fans will be pointing to the Wells trade. Reagins better get it done.
Next Headline: Angels Swap Weaver for Mitre, Chamberlain, and Nunez.
That just about made me throw up
Let’s make Weaver a franchise guy! Overpay him if you have to Arte! At least you are overpaying for homegrown, elite talent…
Homegrown? The guy had 28 starts in the minors. He was handed to us as a super developed college player.
Overpaying is overpaying. Doesn’t matter who it is. Overpaying is always bad.
I would be shocked if Boras advised Weaver to sign anything more that a 2 year deal, unless Weaver insisted on being an Angel for longer.
What? Angels would better off go to arbitration than a two year deal. Also, why wouldn’t Weaver want to be an Angel for longer.
Hes gotta surf man. Where else better?
Yeah… what’s the point in buying out his two last arbitration years without extending him past that. No advantage for the Angels in doing that, and endless negotiating room for Weaver given his phenomenal season last year.
Why would they be better of going to arbtration w/o having no idea what kind of deal they might strike? Certainly, an extension that covers free agent years makes THEE most sense, but in this case, a deal like 2/$15 total would be a great move for the Angles. Considering they are offering $7.3 mil and Weaver is requesting $8.8 mil it’s a nice compromise. There’s a slight risk involved but considering it’s a risk for only 2012 it’s a small one.
If Weaver were to get either the $7.3 or his $8.8 reason stands that another decent year would net him upwards of $7.5 in 2012.
Obviously, FA buyouts are much better for the organization.
As for whether or not he wants to be an Angel, I have no idea? Simply stated that unless he wanted to forego testing the market because he loved being an Angel then I doubt he would sign beyond his FA years because of his agent.
Speaking of Boras and his clients, Weaver’s case boils down to, who is he closer to being…..
Carlos Gonzalez or Prince Fielder? Does he sign early or test the market?
I dunno about Weaver wanting to be an Angel. Tex wanted to be an Angel. CC wanted to be an Angel. Hopefully Weaver is different, but don’t hold your breath.
And please Torii, I love you bro, but don’t try to be a salesman again. I don’t know what you showed CC and Tex, but that did not work out.
not to mention to torii….quit trying to be a GM and play baseball while your getting paid to do so…
try to GM hand later when your old
If the Angels hate Boras so much (which they obv do), they should take away his season tickets. If they refuse to deal with him, I shouldn’t have to see him when I watch Angels’ games.
It’s amazing to compare Weaver’s 2010 numbers with King Felix’s. The only reason I give Felix the Cy Young over Weaver is Felix’s #s against the Yankees.
But hey, as long as CC didn’t win, I’m happy.
Theres a reason why CC, Felix, Lester, and Buchholz finished ahead of Weaver for the Cy Young. They were all better pitchers than him last year!
What evidence do you have for each of them?
i can’t agree with Buccholz, but Felix nearly won the strikeout title last year. He was one less than Weaver. Literally, 1 less. He beat him in everything else if i remember right.
CC was the most valuable overall pitcher IMO. without him, Yankees don’t make the playoffs. Note i didn’t say he was the best pitcher.
Lester was flat outstanding. 6+ WAR season.
i’d like to hear your case for Weaver. I’m sure you’ll use the strikeout title as the centerpiece, that whopping 1 strike out advantage.
Why try to remember what Felix beat him in when you can do a quick Google search?
Weaver vs Felix vs CC
Innings: 224.1 vs 249.2 vs 237.2
Wins: 13 vs 13 vs 19
Losses: 12 vs 12 vs 7
ERA: 3.01 vs 2.27 vs 3.18
Games Started: 34 vs 34 vs 34
Quality Starts: 27 vs 30 vs 26
Strikeouts: 233 vs 232 vs 197
Walks: 54 vs 70 vs 74
Hits: 187 vs 194 vs 209
Runs: 83 vs 80 vs 92
Earned Runs: 75 vs 63 vs 84
It’s quite obvious that outside of wins and losses, CC is in 3rd place here.
As far as Weaver and Felix, the similarities are astounding. They had the same number of wins and losses; basically the same number of strikeouts; same number of games started; and basically the same number of runs. What is significantly different, however, are innings pitched and earned runs. The earned runs suggest that Seattle’s defense let Felix down. Of course, he also plays in a pitcher’s park.
Considering all of the similarities, I don’t see how you can say Felix is leaps and bounds ahead of CC, Buchholz, and Lester and then say Weaver was 5th best. The only statistic I’m interested in is how they faired against dominant offenses. I’m not going to bother doing more research for you, so you can check it out yourself. Felix single handedly destroyed the Yankees in Yankee Stadium, whereas Weaver did not. That is why I give the nod to Hernandez.
If you want to say that CC’s efforts some how carried the Yankees to the playoffs, you’ll have to explain why Felix failed to carry his team to more than 61 wins (Weaver “carried” his team to 80). This business about one pitcher somehow making or breaking it for a team is moot. Of course CC was the difference for the Yankees. What other player wasn’t the difference? Why does it matter if one player put a team over the top? It doesn’t make them the Cy Young – especially when their numbers aren’t even 2nd best.
HAHAHA Ferrariman, you just got destroyed.
Seriously though, the evidence to support Weaver’s case agaisnt CC’s or even Lester’s is overhwelming.
And here’s something Aaron didn’t mention. It has nothing to do with stats but consider this. The Red Sox and Yankees had a powerful lineup that provided them with pretty decent leads. Trust me, as a high-school pitcher, I know it is easier to pitch when you know you have a little lee-way. Both Felix and Weaver on the other hand, repeatedly pitched with a small lead, or even no lead. The pressures on them every inning to go out there to keep their team ahead or in the ballgame. Basically, easy games were few and far between for them, and they had to be sharp game-in game-out.
Like I said, stats don’t show that, but the fact is both Felix and Weav played in more high intensity games than Lester and CC. For them to get the win, they had to be and were perfect everygame, no off-games. That right there is an ace.
Oh and to your point that CC was their team’s most valuavle pitcher overall, think about this. Without Weav, the Angels would have to play catch-up in many games with their paltry offense. They also called on Weav to stop losing streaks and start winning steaks numerous times throughout the season. And anybody watching Angel games last year, ( WHOA someone outside the West Coast watching a non-Red Sox non-Yankee game? *GASP* good lord!) can tell Weaver’s pitching rubbed off positively on Santana and even Haren.
but CC pitched 13 more innings than Weaver…making pretty much all of your information useless because its not based on per 9.
When considering Cy Youngs, it’s better to look at totals than rates. Regardless, your point hurts you more than helps. In 13.1 more innings, CC had
20 more walks
22 more hits
11 more runs
36 less strikeouts
All that in 13.1 innings? wow
Buchholz was superior to Weaver in just about every
way other than strikeouts! Not even close!
Please post the numbers.
EDIT: I posted the numbers in an above reply. You’re either ignorant, a troll, or a fan who will back his players for no good reason.
Clay Buchholz: 17-7, 2.33 era!
Jered Weaver: 13-12, 3.01 era!
Not even close!
I’ll be nice and post Buchholz’s numbers for you:
Weaver vs Felix vs CC vs Buchholz
Innings: 224.1 vs 249.2 vs 237.2 vs 173.2
Wins: 13 vs 13 vs 19 vs 17
Losses: 12 vs 12 vs 7 vs 7
ERA: 3.01 vs 2.27 vs 3.18 vs 2.33
Games Started: 34 vs 34 vs 34 vs 28
Quality Starts: 27 vs 30 vs 26 vs 19
Strikeouts: 233 vs 232 vs 197 vs 120
Walks: 54 vs 70 vs 74 vs 67
Hits: 187 vs 194 vs 209 vs 142
Runs: 83 vs 80 vs 92 vs 55
Earned Runs: 75 vs 63 vs 84 vs 45
Why are we discussing Buchholz? He has so few innings compared to the others that you’d have to resort to rates in order to get a clear comparison. Whenever you have to resort to rates, you know a pitcher isn’t qualified to win the Cy Young.
No pitcher with less than 20 quality starts in a season (lest it be a reliever) deserves an award.
The fact that the baseball writers in America voted so, oh yeah, and they all had superior stats to Weaver as well!
The same ones who gave Derek Jeter a Gold Glove?
More numbers and less words would help your case.
Superior stats?
Get rid of defense, offensive support and strand rate. Here is what the PITCHERS actually did.
Weaver – FIP – 3.06 / xFIP – 3.51 / 5.9 WAR
Hernandez – FIP – 3.04 / xFIP – 3.26 / 6.2 WAR
Sabathia – FIP – 3.54 / xFIP – 3.78 / 5.1 WAR
Lester – FIP – 3.13 / xFIP – 3.29 / 5.6 WAR
Buccholz – FIP – 3.61 / xFIP – 4.20 / 3.7 WAR
The irony in this discussion is that you are busy spouting off nonsense about the top pitchers and you ignore the BEST 3 in the AL.
Lee – FIP – 2.58 / xFIP – 3.23 / 7.1 WAR
Verlander – FIP – 3.01 / xFIP – 3.68 / 6.6 WAR
Liriano – FIP – 2.66 / xFIP – 3.06 / 6.0 WAR
I don’t think most people have any idea how absolutely filthy Liriano was last year. The guy ranked 2nd in K/9, 2nd in FIP, 1st in xFIP.
If it were up to me the rankings would be (1) Lee, (2) Liriano, (3) Hernandez, (4) Verlander, (5) Weaver, (6) Lester. However, ALL of those guys could easily be debated as being the best pitcher in the AL last year. The differences between them are very, very small.
Not really.
Great comeback!
correction, those guys were ahead in voting because they play on east coast big market teams. If Weaver was a Yank or a Red Sux then he would have won hands down. King Felix won because he deserved it.
Big time sour grapes! Everyone feels bad cuz Reagins is doing his best to ruin your team but don’t take it out on the 4 pitchers who were head and shoulders better than Weaver last year!
king felix won because he deserved it, despite the east coast bias..
but weaver came in fifth because of the east coast bias…
ohhh… I get it now
Weaver has never had a bad year and has put up decent innings totals along the way. Also he’s young. And despite some FA signings and trades, the Angels are pretty good about keeping home grown players for a long time. Weaver is a perfect candidate to be locked up. I’d say for his sake start at 2 years/$20MM but for the Angels’ sake maybe talk 6 years/$72MM. It’s a lot of money for him, but you avoid paying a premium a couple years down the road if he keeps this up.
weaver would never do 6 yr $72 mil. I say 4 yr $48-51 mil
Hey- in an era of inflated contracts I was just trying to be pragmatic- make the player ridiculously wealthy but leave room for error for the team in case he fell off or got badly injured. Yeah, I could have suggested 6 yrs/$120MM but I guarantee you that would seem like an overprice at some point. So perhaps something in the middle would make more sense. 6 yrs/$90MM seems more reasonable. But 6/$120 is insane, even for Weaver.
6/72MM would be gladly accepted if this was a few years back, but the market has changed. If Beltre gets 6/96MM, no way a legit ace like Weav gets 6/72. I still don’t understand why Weaver did not get more CY attention last year. He proved he could battle with King Felix, and he had no problem pitching in Fenway or Arlington. This guy is an Cy-caliber pitcher, he knows it, and more importantly that sly devil Boras knows it.
Weaver’s never had a “bad” year but he also hasn’t been outstanding like he was in 2010 either. You are looking at a guy who will give you between 3.5 and 4.0 WAR. On the open market that’s about $20m/year.
He’s got 2 years of arb left. At the most you are looking at $18m for those years. After that … I’d give him $18m/year over the next 4 seasons. That leaves you at 6/$90. No great bargain BTW but certainly a reasonable contract for both sides.
perhaps the Wells trade has Weaver, a fly ball pitcher, stoked on staying in Anaheim a few more years given the excellent outfield he will be pitching pepper to. Wells’ UZR rating seems rather low to me, and perhaps a move to an open air ball field with real grass and the move to LF will help improve that stat.
“I don’t have to deal with anybody I don’t have to deal with. That’s the way I live my life.” Moreno better remember that many elite MLB players are Boras clients including a certain 1B by the name of Kendry Morales who would be in their best intrest to extend. Not a very wise comment by Moreno
I know right? Ya know when Manny Ramirez would sometimes do crazy things, we would say “well, that’s just Manny being Manny”. I think whenever anything comes up with Boras or his clients, Arte says the most bizarre things… I guess now we can say “well, that’s just Arte being Arte”. Someone needs to muzzle him… please…
If they really did just start to negotiate with Weav, this is just another disappointment with the offseason. If they really wanted him long term and he is the ace of the staff, you get it done (or not) BEFORE you make a trade for VW. If no long term deal can be reached, you bite the bullet and trade him now at his highest value and possibly meet your needs in LF and or 3B… sigh…
I wouldn’t be opposed to trading Weaver except the team is committed to being all-in now that Wells has been added. You can’t rebuild your farm system while at the same time paying your corner outfielders $40m.
I completely agree at this stage. It just seems that it would have made more sense to request Weav and K-Mo (both Boras clients) if they were interested in negotiating a long term deal before the winter meetings to make a determination of how the club would proceed at that event and afterwards if those plans didn’t work out. The timing of this event just seems odd to me… if in fact now is the time they really just started negotiations.
34 MM
Hmmm….while I love Jered Weaver, I was really hoping to get Kendry locked up first. Weaver is a great pitcher but Kendry Morales is that kind of player you need in the middle of the lineup and the type of player that you bring your young guys up around. But hey! If you get Weaver locked up, thats a great move too….just save some money for Kendry 😉
i agree and disagree
I agree that Morales is a great player and the angels would benefit from locking him up. he plays every day (unlike Weaver), and is important for the lineup
I disagree in a way because Weaver has a more proven track record than Morales. Weaver has consistent numbers over a span of more than a season or two… while morales has only really played 1 1/3 seasons
Cookmeisters got it right. Morales had one MVP-caliber season in 2009, and looked good before he went down with the injury. Make no mistake, I’m a huge Morales fan, but one more good year out of him would prove he wasn’t a one year guy (which I hope and don’t believe he is) or at the very least shows he has recovered from the injury. But yeah, I’m hoping we lock him up too because once Torii and Co. is gone, it’s up to Morales to lead this offense. Bourjous/Trout/Morales/Good Aybar/ Good Howie has me salivating.
BUT, Weaver is more important. He is the team ace, and is proven. I truly believe last year is just the start of something big. For example, Ulbado Jimenez had that dazzling first-half, but really faltered in the 2nd. That should cause worry. That should make people question Jimenez on whether he is a great pitcher, or just a good one. Maybe Weaver dominated game in- game out. He stopped losing streaks, he took on the Rangers, the Red Sox, the Yanks. He is a legit ace.
But hey why lock up one player, when you can lock up both! Weaver and Morales are the future of Angels baseball, i hope Reaigins understands that.
You don’t have to lock up Morales until like 3 years from now.
My biggest fear with the Wells debacle was that he was given money that would be needed for Weaver and Morales. Signing both (or even either at this point) of them to a five year deal would be huge. Sadly, I haven’t been this pessimistic about the chances of something being done right with this team for many, many years.
I know. I can’t believe the offseason that you guys have had. I’m a Giants fan but I gotta say, despite what happened in 2002 (it was more Dusty’s fault), I like the Angels for some reason. You guys have a great pitching staff. That Dan Haren trade was brilliant back in July. But I still don’t understand why Vernon Wells? Bourjos at the very least is super fast and a great fielding CFer and you guys have the best prospect in the majors who also is very good in CF. I (like everyone else) can’t see the point of trading for Vernon Wells. I wish you guys the best of luck in everything working out.
Trout won’t be making regular appearances in the bigs until at least the end of the 2012. Hunter is off the books then. You would have an outfield of Wells, Bourjos and Trout.
6 years 90 million sounds like it would get this deal done. That’s 15 million a year for 6 years two of which buy out his arbitration. In 2 years, when Weaver hits FA you know he’s going to get 15-20 million a year.
AFter that, go to Kendry and offer the same thing 6 years 90 million.
Woot, the real Reagins finally wakes up from his winter hibernation. Buh-bye fake Reagins.
This is weird, the Angels are finally giving a long term extension to someone, what’s next Kendry Morales, no that’s not right. haha
5/80 sounds good
The Angels can offer both Weaver and Morales big contract extentions because they had money to offer crawford and beltre which didn’t work.
Even if Reagins gets Morales and Weavers extensions done, they still would have found room for Beltre/Crawford, but not both. If I am an Angel Fan, I am fine with not signing Crawford. But here’s how I would have approached this offseason.
Sign Beltre 6/95MM-Invest the 80MM you were willing to spend on Beltre and the 15MM you spent on Downs.
Make the Vernon Wells Trade, even for Napoli and Rivera, but get about 15MM back as well, instead of 5MM. That makes his contract understandable at 4 years 65MM, considering they subtract 25MM if you include the 10MM from the salaries of Napoli and Rivera.
Then they have spent a total of 150MM, 3MM more than it would have cost to sign Crawford and added 2 30 homer bats with exceptional defense at LF and 3b
With the 8MM coming off the books from Piniero after this season, that’s 8MM a year more to commit to Weaver for 2012 season and beyond. Plus Hunter, Abreu and possibly Haren’s contracts end after 2012 so if they want to extend Morales they could easily do so after that point. They are better off waiting it out this season and going year to year with Kendry for 2012 season, to see if he can regain his footing and further decide if they want to give him the big bucks.
2011 lineup
DH Abreu
RF Hunter
1b Morales
3b Beltre
LF Wells
C Conger/Mathis
2b Kendrick/Callaspo
CF Bourjos/Trout
SS Aybar/Izturis
That’s a very good looking lineup for 2011 and 2012. And after 2012, they still have an OF set with Wells, Bourjos, and Trout.
“And fans don’t have to spend a weeks pay check to bring their family to a ball game which is ultimately completely meaningless in peoples lives”