Cubs Acquire Matt Garza

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Eight player trades don't come along very often, but the Rays and Cubs finalized one today. Tampa sent Matt Garza, Fernando Perez, and minor leaguer Zach Rosscup to Chicago in exchange for Sam Fuld and prospects Chris Archer, Brandon Guyer, Robinson Chirinos, and Hak-Ju Lee.

Garza, 27, posted a 3.91 ERA with 6.6 K/9, 2.8 BB/9 and a 35.8% ground ball rate in 204 2/3 innings for the Rays last year. He heads to arbitration for the second time this winter and is set to receive a raise from the $3.35MM salary he earned in 2010.

Garza joins Ryan Dempster, Tom Gorzelanny, Randy Wells, Carlos Zambrano and Carlos Silva in a crowded Chicago rotation. It wouldn't be surprising to see Cubs starters appear in trade rumors before long. If any team could afford to spare a starter, it was the Rays, who still have David Price, James Shields, Jeff Niemann, Wade Davis and Jeremy Hellickson. The return from the Cubs doesn't impact Tampa's Opening Day roster, but it adds depth to the Rays' already impressive farm system.

Baseball America ranked Archer first among Cubs prospects this offseason while Lee placed fourth and Guyer placed tenth. Archer, a 22-year-old right-hander, made it as high as Double-A last year. The starting pitcher posted a 2.34 ERA with 9.4 K/9 and 4.1 BB/9, limiting opponents to 6.4 H/9. The Cubs acquired him from the Indians just over two years ago in the Mark DeRosa trade. Jim Callis of Baseball America notes that Archer is a year away from the majors and could be a closer in the future (Twitter link).

It's not a great time to be an up-and-coming shortstop in the Cubs organization, as Starlin Castro figures to be the team's shortstop for years. Lee, who was born seven months after Castro, is also a highly-regarded shortstop. The native of Korea has a .299/.370/.375 line with 57 stolen bases in two pro seasons. When Baseball America ranked Lee sixth among Cubs prospects before the season, the publication described him as a gifted hitter with the tools to make difficult defensive plays.

Guyer, who turns 25 this month, posted a .344/.398/.588 line in 410 plate apperances at Double-A last year. He has played all three outfield positions in his four-year minor league career.

Chirinos, who turns 27 this month, has infield experience, but has primarily been a catcher in 2009-10. He hit .326/.416/.583 with 18 home runs in the upper minors last year.

Fuld, 29, has a .252/.368/.344 line in 155 big league plate appearances spread over three seasons. The outfielder has spent most of his six-year pro career in the minors, where he has a .285/.372/.405 line.

Perez, 27, has a .234/.301/.351 line in 107 big league plate appearances. He hit .223/.280/.299 in 426 plate appearances at Triple-A last year.

The 22-year-old Rosscup was the Rays' 28th round selection in 2009. Last season, he registered a 2.64 ERA with 8.3 K/9 and 1.8 BB/9 for the Rays' Gulf Coast and Single A affiliates.

ESPN.com's Buster Olney hears from a talent evaluator that the Rays' haul gives them depth, but not necessarily impact players (Twitter link). MLB.com's Jonathan Mayo agrees and notes that Archer and Lee have some good upside (Twitter link).

ESPN Chicago's Bruce Levine first reported that the deal was in place, though he and Bruce Miles of the Daily Herald both reported that the deal was close. Miles later added Perez's inclusion, both Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports and Gordon Wittenmyer of The Chicago Sun-Times added details (via Twitter).

Photo courtesy of Icon SMI.


510 Responses to Cubs Acquire Matt Garza Leave a Reply

  1. slider32 4 years ago

    Hellickson is a real control pitcher, I don’t think the Rays will be hurting for pitching except in relief.

  2. slider32 4 years ago

    Garza is moving from the AL East to the NL, he could win 18 games for the Cubs. The Cubs problem now is to get better in the field.

    • jwsox 4 years ago

      but he is moving to the NL central where he has to play against 3 of the top offensive 1st basemen in the game in albert, votto and prince…let alone some of the best offensive teams in the game. He is also being thrown into the best pitching league…The AL is the offensive league and the NL is the pitching league…i would be 15 wins max

  3. baseballz 4 years ago

    He’s got great number. His strikeout to walk ratio has improved each of the last three years. He’s a workhorse with a sub 4 era. He’s a flyball pitcher going to a ballpark where flyball pitchers like Ted Lilly do quite well. People complain that the Cubs are not in contention this year, but you have the guy for three years! And who know what the trade market will be next year let alone in three years.

    In exchange for your spare parts (*Archer could be very good I admit, but he could just as easily be a very easily replaced bullpen guy) the cubs could very easily get much much more for Garza after he puts up great numbers which, simply by virtue of him leaving the AL East and facing the pitcher every ninth batter is very likely to happen.

    • renegade24 4 years ago

      A career 7.1 K/9 and 3.2 BB/9 is supposed to impress me? What about that 4.45 xFIP? Garza really isn’t that good. And the #1 and #4 prospects in the Cubs system are spare parts?

      • MB923 4 years ago

        He’s good, but he’s not great.

      • baseballz 4 years ago

        4.45 xFIP good point. But how (I don’t know to be honest) does that indicate his true talent when his career avg on balls in play BABIP – those balls in play which the fielders don’t get to is .264 for his career and his career xFIP is over 4 ? So, even with the Rays fielding his FIP is over 4 then he must have some control over his absurdly low BABIP right ?

        I just don’t see how citing his xFIP score can be relevant when Garza has shown a constant ability to outperform it based on his skills alone and not those of his fielders.

        Though, I am sure there is an error in my logic, I hope someone can point it out to me because I don’t feel like I am using the stats right.

        • MaineSox 4 years ago

          Because FIP (and xFIP) is based on fielder independent pitching, essentially HR’s, BB’s, and K’s while BABIP is only on balls in play meaning it excludes the K’s and BB’s. So most likely what you are looking at is someone who issues quite a few walks, doesn’t strike out a ton of people, and probably gives up a good amount of HR’s. His BABIP can still be low though if lots of the stuff put in play that doesn’t leave the park ends up being an out (true for many fly ball pitchers) he probably also has a good defense behind him.

          That sounds like a good description of Garza so the numbers actually make sense for him.

    • jwsox 4 years ago

      he is a fly ball pitcher who is going to a park that is a very nice hitters park and balls fly out of

  4. Funkhouser Jr. 4 years ago

    Very few Asian positional player prospects excel at the MLB level. Choo for the Indians is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. I’m not including the “big name” players from Japan that come over for large contracts (heck, a lot of them even fail to live up to the hype). I think the Cubs were smart to sell high on Lee, especially with Castro currently blocking his progress.

    Guyer is going to be 25, and Chirinos is going to be 27. I think the Cubs have wasted too much time in the past on “older” prospects until they had little to no value. Fuld is a fairly decent example of this, although he was never really a highly touted prospect. He’s 29 and a 5th outfielder. I’m not really worried about losing any of them at this point, especially with Soto, Wellington Castillo, Tyler Colvin and Brett Jackson in the system. If they succeed, so be it, but I don’t think they’re going to be superstar caliber players by any means. Archer is the only big loss for me, but a lot of scouts have already tagged him as more suited for a relief role than a starting role. Garza is a horse and should only improve by moving away from the AL East and into the NL Central. I think it’s a pretty fair trade for both sides. It could help the Rays down the line, but it will definitely help the Cubs immediately.

    The NL Central is a wide open division. I don’t care what anybody says.

    • Is Ichiro one of the ones that’s excluded? The problem with this trade isn’t about losing players where their is already a young guy blocking him, the problem is that all of them are going towards 1 barely above average pitcher. If these 4 players were used to bring in 2 above average players, that’d be a whole other story.

  5. Rays just got a BOAT LOAD for Garza!! WOW did they clean up!!

  6. What I find interesting is how many people are willing to downplay how well Garza will do as a Cub because they hate Hendry. He’s made some lousy moves here and there, but, outside of Carlos Zambrano’s extension, many, if not most of his starting pitching moves over the last few years have looked pretty good. Dempster’s deal? Looks very solid. Picking up Silva for malcontent Bradley? Something for nothing. Ted Lilly’s four year deal? One of the best value-to-dollars free agent pitching deals in recent memory. Gorzelanny’s acquisition? Seems pretty sharp in hindsight. Rich Harden for Murton, Patterson, et al.? Terrific deadline move for low cost. Fangraphs has even Jason Marquis listed as being worth more than they paid for him his during two years as a Cub.

    I’m all for slagging Hendry when he outbids himself for second-tier guys like Soriano or obsesses over guys like Peavy and Roberts while other players who’d fit are more easily available, but hasn’t he kind of earned a little credit, at least where his starting pitching acqusitions are concerned?

  7. kdawg89 4 years ago

    Rays did well and the big picture here is they did this trade for… 2 reasons.. 1. is obviously to pick up some good prospects and try to develop them to strengthen the big club in 2-3 yrs. but the biggest reason is this. 2. The Rays front office is savvy considering what they work with. They did this to free up more money to sign a good closer and make a run at Vlad or Thome. That extra 3 million free salary will make a huge difference. Their payroll right now is a little less than 30 million. I think they’ll spend another around $10-$12 million since both Friedman and Silverman said they’d like to keep it around $42-$45 million. Bottom line is we won’t know how this trade looks for both teams for probably at least 2 yrs.

  8. MB923 4 years ago

    “All the experts disagree, but apparently you know more than people who watch these players all the time.”

    Define experts please. Hope you aren’t talking about ESPN or Jon Heyman.

    But if you trust them as your sources, then fine, let’s ask the experts what team has the best scouting in baseball, I assure you most will say the Rays. Obviously Rays scouts saw stuff they like.

  9. amhcubby12 4 years ago

    I am really unsure as to whether this trade is a good one for the Cubs. The upside is they acquired a legitimate #2 starting pitcher who is only 27 and under team control for 3 years. No, Garza may not be the Ace to anchor a rotation (a la Halladay, Carpenter, Lee, etc) but he is a very good piece and still young with room to improve. At the very least the Cubs get a solid consistent PROVEN major league pitcher, whose numbers in the NL should improve. You have to give up something to get something and the Cubs got a quality pitcher. The fact is Garza is probably a top 25 pitcher in the majors. Who knows if Archer will ever reach that success. Oh, and Garza is definitely a better pitcher than Shaun Marcum.

    Fernando Perez, from what I understand, has incredible speed and plugs in as the 5th OF (essentially, probably, a slight upgrade from Fuld). So, as far as this year and next year are concerned, barring a Garza catastrophic change in his abilities, the Cubs win this trade.

    As for the future, I am surprised to see the Cubs giving up Lee and Archer, 2 top prospects who the Cubs have been raving about. However, anyone who says this trade is terrible right now for the Cubs because they gave up these 2 prospects is absolutely clueless. Aside from Fuld, not 1 of these guys has played 1 inning in the major leagues. Therefore, they have no track record other than what they’ve done in the minors which as those who follow the Cubs and their prospects essentially means nothing. Outside of Starlin Castro, who does look like the real deal, BA’s #1 prospect for the Cubs the past 10 years have consisted of Corey Patterson, Mark Prior, Brian Dopirak, Felix Pie, Hee Seop Choi, Angel Guzman and Josh Vitters (jury’s still out). Aside from 2 good years (1 incredible) from Prior, none of these guys have panned out as you would expect from a #1 prospect. So, until Lee and Archer prove anything in the majors there is no argument for stating this was a terrible trade for the Cubs. Chirinos is a 26 year old catcher blocked by Soto and Wellington Castillo. Guyer is an OF and the Cubs actually do have some OF prospect depth plus an overpaid LF who they can’t get rid of until 2015 anyways. Fuld – blah.

    However, a lot of what we’ve been hearing is the Cubs plan to grow their major league team from within the farm system and giving up 2 of the top 4 prospects no doubt contradicts that. Perhaps Hendry realized that his past philosophy of holding on to the top prospects who wind up being terrible was not working and that he should gamble on proven major league players when given the opportunity.

    Even if none of those players the Cubs traded pan out for Tampa and this does prove to be a great trade for Hendry, I am still totally in favor of firing him!!

  10. woadude 4 years ago

    HEEEEEY i am waaaaay late and didnt read comments, but how many people mentioned how it just keeps getting better for Boston? The Red Sox killer is out of the AL East, are you kidding me? I read the Yankees secretly coveted Garza and he goes to the Cubs? and wow the Cubs gave up some promising talent to get him, way to go for both teams.

    • yeah man i was thinking the same thing. garza was a red sox killers. he seemed to always pitch good against the sox except for that game where beltre took him deep 2x last year. good thing he is going to the nl. nl welcome the sprinkler.

  11. Abraham Zapruder 4 years ago

    Sternberg is pocketing his Revenue Sharing money. I hope that the Taxpayers of Hillsborough or Pinellas County don’t give the NY Carpetbagger a new stadium.

    • Just_MLB 4 years ago

      in his defense, the rays could have 5 cy young winners in their rotation and murderer’s row and still find more people watching a hs football game than going to see the rays.

  12. I am hearing the pitcher the Cubs acquired in the trade is Matt Moore, Alex Torres, or Braulio Lara. All three are left handed pitchers in the the Rays top 10 prospects for 2011 according to Baseball America. As soon as I can confirm it I will post it. If this is the case you can then argue the Cubs got a better deal than everyone originally thought

    • chance18 4 years ago

      interesting. That could make this deal look more reasonable for the cubs, they sorely lack left handed pitching, probably the biggest hole in their farm system.

    • Or they get none of the above………

  13. Hoosierdaddy92 4 years ago

    As much as I dislike Hendry, he really has made very few poor trades. He didn’t give up anything good for ARAM, DLee, Harden. I have not lost faith in Hendry’s ability to make blockbuster trades. He even got a solid pitcher and money for Milton Bradley! He is really yet to make a poor trade. I am more concerned about the horrendous contracts he dishes out afterwards. Just a thought

    Secondly, the Cubs acquired the best pitcher that is going to be available in the next two years if you think about it. There is garbage on the free agent list next offseason, and not much for 2012, with most of the best pitchers on that list likely to get extensions.

    • chance18 4 years ago

      Juan Pierre trade was awful

      • Hoosierdaddy92 4 years ago

        Pierre was great for the Cubs. Hit nearly .300, stole 58 bases, rarely struck out, played solid d. Yes the Cubs performed poorly, however, Pierre did everything they expected him to as a leadoff hitter. Would I rather have Ricky Nolasco right now? Absolutely, but at the time the Cubs got a very solid player and plus the Cubs have not been short on pitching since 2006 anyway

        • chance18 4 years ago

          wrong. Pierre may have hit for decent average, but it was almost all singles, and had a terrible obp, which is the main quality in a leadoff hitter. I’d much rather have a .400 obp guy who doesn’t steal bases in the leadoff spot over Juan Pierre. Not only that but Pierre has one of the worst outfield arms in baseball, so putting him in centerfield hurt the team defense.

          The trade was terrible at the time because it obviously was not pushing the Cubs over the top. There was absolutely no reason to believe that Juan Pierre would make the team a contender again, so why give up great prospects if that trade wasn’t going to get them to the playoffs anyway? It’s not like they were trading for three years of Pierre, he was going into the last year of his contract. Even if he did have three years left, you don’t give up that much for Juan freakin Pierre. He’s just not a special player, people just think he is because he steals alot of bases. If he didn’t steal so many bases he probably would already be out of baseball. And the myth that he’s a good leadoff hitter is a joke, hes had an opb of .350 just one time over the last six years.

          • Hoosierdaddy92 4 years ago

            he may not know how to take a walk, but he is undisputedly one of the league’s best contact hitters and basestealers. He doesn’t have a great OBP is because he almost always puts the ball in play and rarely takes a walk. Of those three “great” prospects you mentioned, only Nolasco was highly regarded. The Marlins didn’t even keep Mitre and Pinto is not that good. The Cubs could afford to give away those prospects at the time for Pierre. Also, Pierre may have a lousy arm, but he STILL covers a ton of range and at that time he covered the most range of his career.

          • chance18 4 years ago

            But the main goal of a leadoff hitter is to get on base. They are supposed to be able to draw walks. Guys that get on base more are better than ones who do not, no matter what kind of speed they have.

            Not saying Pierre isn’t a good player, but he’s never been great, and was not a good fit for the 2006 Cubs. It was the wrong decision to make at the time, with a team that was more than one move away from competing, and should have been saving it’s young talent. Nolasco was too highly touted of a prospect to give away for one year of a decent cf that doesn’t really do anything for the team.

          • Hoosierdaddy92 4 years ago

            This is where I disagree with you. I do not believe the leadoff hitters job is simply to get on-base; it’s to get on-base AND score runs. Take Nick Johnson for instance. In 2009, he had among the highest OBP in the leauge, but he only scored 79 runs. Juan Pierre, even on the last place cubs, scored 89 runs and a pitiful Cubs team behind him. I understand your point but I value speed as much as OBP for a leadoff hitter.

          • chance18 4 years ago

            Well that’s just one example. And Johnson spent alot of 09 with a not so great Nats lineup. Mark Grace used to score more runs than the cubs top of the order hitters because he got on base more. The way i look at it, the more you get on base the less you get out. Not only does that allow you more chances to score, but also keeps outs of the board, continuing innings and opening it up for the rest of the offense.

            Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t put a guy like Nick Johnson leadoff, I would want someone who had at least decent/average speed. And of course the ideal leadoff guy is someone who gets on base at a high rate and steals a ton of bases. That’s why Ricky Henderson was the greatest leadoff hitter of all time. But agree to disagree

          • Hoosierdaddy92 4 years ago

            Absolutely, it’s only a matter of whats more important speed or OBP. I think it really depends on the team around the leadoff hitter. But you are correct that both are significantly important

    • Just_MLB 4 years ago

      trading Josh Hamilton for cash considerations

      lol

      • chance18 4 years ago

        you shouldn’t comment on things when you don’t know their details. It was a pre-arranged trade because the Cubs had a higher pick in the rule 5 than the Reds. NOBODY expected Hamilton to be anywhere close to the level he is right now, the Reds just thought they mine as well take a flyer on him. If Gm’s expected him to be this good he would have been taken even before the Cubs picked. The only reason Hendry picked him was to get a little free money from the Reds. He had played 15 minor league games in the previous 4 years, it wasn’t like everyone knew he would be a star.

        • Just_MLB 4 years ago

          sorry but if that were cashman or minaya passing up on hamilton the NY
          press would’ve ate them up alive.
          Chicago’s media is much more forgiving. then again, i think the
          expectations are a lil different in NY than Chicago

          • Hoosierdaddy92 4 years ago

            yea I agree with chance on this one, that doesn’t count as Hendry’s fault.

          • Just_MLB 4 years ago

            ….10 years later, Omar Minaya still hears junk about trading Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon.

            at the time, the only prospect that was even rated on baseball america’s top 100 was brandon phillips….Bartolo Colon was the Cliff Lee of his day….

          • chance18 4 years ago

            yes but those were prospects they had develop. Hamilton was a rule 5 pick that most people thought had already flamed out. Maybe the media in NY would have ate up a NY GM (which still wouldn’t be fair to the GM) if he had done the same trade, but that’s not the point I was addressing, I was trying to explain the situation to a poster who cleary knew nothing of it. And even though the Chicago media was never it a mad uproar about that move, plenty of people in the media have wrongly blamed Hendry for swinging Hamilton.

          • Just_MLB 4 years ago

            either way, why would u give up the chance to have a rule 5 player for 50,000 dollars?

            its like he took a page out of the wilpon coupon book of baseball.

          • chance18 4 years ago

            Um plenty of teams pass up that chance, most teams don’t take anyone in the rule 5 draft, and even fewer keep those guys. Sure you can find a Hamilton or a Soria or an Uggla, but most rule 5 picks are fails. Are you happy that Hendry snatched up David Patton in the rule 5 a couple years ago?

            You obviously don’t know much about how the rule 5 works, so maybe you should stop embarrasing yourself and step away from the keyboard. These draft and trade deals happen all the time in the rule 5.

          • Just_MLB 4 years ago

            ” MOST teams don’t take anyone in the rule 5 draft”
            hyperbole does not = intelligent statements.

            how often does the #1 pick in the AMATEUR draft ever hit the RULE 5 draft?

            u should do urself a favor and just discontinue your internet service. this whole information age thing is apparently not for you.

          • chance18 4 years ago

            Just stop. Hamilton had proved nothing for a four year period. No one would have guessed he still would end up being a star. How many times do I have to repeat that until you get it?

          • Just_MLB 4 years ago

            so let me get this straight…

            here is an exert from a LIVE CHAT on BASEBALL AMERICA who covered the draft.

            9:22 a.m. Some musings on the major league phase while the minor league phase progresses . . .

            • Brilliant move by the Cubs on Josh Hamilton; why didn’t we think of that? No one has his upside in this draft, he’s the biggest Rule 5 name Jim Callis or I can recall, and if he can tame his demons, he could produce a big payoff. Perhaps being around big leaguers and a big league atmosphere will bring out the best in Hamilton, and Lou Piniella certainly has been around him from his days in the Devil Rays organization. Same for Tim Wilken, the Cubs’ scouting director. Smart, low-risk move, and maybe it will help the Rays as well. Now they don’t have to deal with Josh Hamilton questions anymore.

            ——————————————————————————-

          • Just_MLB 4 years ago

            so according to the story below, the cubs never intended on picking anyone. that seems to be a FAIL in itself, considering their club in 2007.

            the reds actually had the best setup for josh to succeed.

            although words are like rocks, once thrown, gone forever, I take back all those mean things i said about u.

            ———————————————————————–
            On June 30, 2006, Hamilton was cleared to return to play for the Rays organization. He played 15 games for low Class A Hudson Valley before a knee injury cut short the comeback.

            The best chance ever In the fall, when Major League clubs needed to protect players on their 40-man rosters, Hamilton was not protected by Tampa Bay. It left him exposed to the Rule 5 Draft in December.

            Very quietly, the Reds began doing their due diligence on Hamilton. Senior director of scouting Chris Buckley, who lives in the Tampa Bay area, first tipped general manager Wayne Krivsky. Eventually, the consensus in the organization built.

            “We decided there was no one in the Rule 5 Draft that compared to Josh in terms of raw ability,” Krivsky said. “[And we thought,] ‘Hey, this is well worth the gamble.'”

            It turned out that Narron and Hamilton had a history. Narron’s brother, Johnny, coached Hamilton as a teenager.

            “My brother was saying, ‘You have got to see this guy play. He is outstanding,'” Jerry Narron said. “I show up and I didn’t know I was going to see a left-handed-throwing catcher. You could tell when he was 15 years old that he had tremendous ability and tremendous talent.”

            Krivsky kept the Hamilton discussions to a limited inner circle. Ownership wasn’t notified for permission until two days before the draft. Even Narron wasn’t informed until the night before at the Winter Meetings. Narron’s jaw dropped when he was given the news.

            “[Krivsky] had no idea that I had known him,” Narron said.

            To prevent another club from plucking Hamilton, the Reds made a deal with the Cubs to pick for them, who drafted ahead in line. Chicago wasn’t told until it was handed a piece of paper with Hamilton’s name on it just before the draft began.

            “‘Whoa, good call. I like it,'” Krivsky recounted being told by Cubs scouting director Tim Wilken.

            Chicago selected Hamilton and then sent him to Cincinnati in exchange for cash.

            Since the draft, Narron — also a North Carolina resident — began meeting with Hamilton twice a week and threw him batting practice. Also present at the sessions was Johnny Narron, the same former youth coach. Johnny Narron was recently named the Reds’ video and administrative coach.

        • Just_MLB 4 years ago

          well he was the 3rd pick of the draft, it wasnt like he was the 45th pick….

          he had been clean for 2 years already…

          an article written in 2006 before the draft

          He tried to catch on in April with an Independent League team in Brockton, Mass., but was prohibited from playing by MLB. The commissioner’s office, though, promised to review his case.

          Devil Rays general manager Andrew Friedman got the OK for Hamilton last week. MLB, advised by doctors that a return to baseball might enhance Hamilton’s recovery, granted him “limited privileges.” He is allowed to work with the Devil Rays’ minor leaguers. He will be evaluated again in a week.

          Hamilton hit 12 home runs in batting practice in his first workout, including a towering shot of more than 500 feet.

          sounds like the reds read that article.

          • chance18 4 years ago

            Major League teams don’t make their decisions on what the writer in the local paper says, trust me. They make decisions based on their scouts observations, and the Reds scouts saw something they liked with Hamilton. Sure enough they were right. But it was far from common knowledge, or he would have been picked first in the draft easily.

          • Just_MLB 4 years ago

            not really…joakim soria was selected right before josh hamilton….and the rays had the 1st pick so they couldnt select a player they already had.

            hendry messed up. if not for trading hamilton for cash, then just giving up the chance to have a player in 07 for 50K.

            u cant even get a really hooked up car for 50K.

            that was a bobby brown move. sorry.

          • chance18 4 years ago

            were you really upset the day that Hamilton was drafted and traded by the Cubs? I highly doubt it.

          • Just_MLB 4 years ago

            were expo fans ( all 10 of them ) upset when cliff lee and grady sizemore included in the bartolo colon trade?

            probably not.

            that doesnt stop people from playing revisionist when assessing the trade does it?

          • chance18 4 years ago

            Once again, those were their homegrown prospects, not a rule 5 pick. These type of trades happen all the time, this one just happened to click for the Reds. You look like a fool trying to fault Hendry on this. He’s made plenty of other mistakes, go blame him for those instead

          • Richard Hood 4 years ago

            Actually most “experts” were really upset about the Bartolo Colon trade. It was done to try and keep baseball in Montreal supposedly. But yes fans of the Expos and most every baseball fan in america knew what Grady Sizemore was. Cliff Lee on the other hand a lot like what people are saying about Archer now only younger.

          • Just_MLB 4 years ago

            article one

            CNNSI.com’s John Donovan
            Give the Expos credit. They’re clearly not dead ducks. And they’re no stooges for Major League Baseball, either. General manager Omar Minaya is going for it all, right now, by ransoming the team’s uncertain future. It’s a bold, seize-the-moment trade. It strengthens the Expos, no doubt, giving them one of the best top-of-the-rotations in the business. And with what manager Frank Robinson already has done, these Expos will be heard from before this season is done.

          • Just_MLB 4 years ago

            I challenge u to find any article or video that even said anything remotely bad about that trade.

            that trade if anything is proof positive that all these journalists and media reporters are experts AFTER the fact and are basically F.O.S

    • wheresthehawk 4 years ago

      Hendry has a history of poor trades, poor signings, lousy contracts (except for the player), and just plain inaction. Just the tips and highlights to refresh your memory… >Trading Mark DeRosa to have enough $ to sign Bradley >Signing Milton Bradley >No action on Kerry Wood-Goes to Cleveland > Signed Fukudome > Signed Pena 1Yr $10M > Let Reed Johnson Go because there wasn’t $ in the budget for him >Signed Alfonso Soriano > Threw a boat load of $ at Carlos Zambrano > Signed LaTroy Hawkins > Let Jason Marquis go

      • Hoosierdaddy92 4 years ago

        trading Mark DeRosa, who did nothing that next year anyway, landed them Archer. They wouldn’t have Garza right now if it weren’t for that. He is not a lousy trader, just a lousy signer

      • chance18 4 years ago

        your really complaining about losing Marquis? And what was so special about Reed Johnson? And you do realize that the Cubs got Archer in return for DeRosa, and DeRosa hasn’t done to much since leaving the Cubs right?

  14. wheresthehawk 4 years ago

    Of all the lousy trades and signings that Hendry has pulled off, it just shows that every once in awhile, even a blind squirrel finds a nut. This has a real advantage for Hendry if he can play this intelligently (that being the operative word). Since Hendry thought it made sense to jettison Derrick Lee and literally throw $10M at Carlos Pena and his .241 career average. Loved last years stats, btw… 28 HR, 84 RBI, 87 BB, 158 K’s, .196 BA, .325 OBP. Guess that’s worth $10M. On the other hand, Hendry did get Matt Garza. A no hitter and 200 inn/yr the last 3 years. He goes to Arbitration next season, but we’ve got a Staff now that looks pretty darn good. If Hendry is smart (which I doubt) he can clean up some of his other mistakes pretty quickly by just waving Zambrano out there… You want Z? He comes with Fukidome. You want Z? You have to take Soriano with him. Hell, You take Z, Fukidome, AND Soriano, you can have Silva too! Hello Seattle, Angels, Dodgers, Mets? Have we got a deal for you! Just call 773-404-2827, and ask for Jim!

  15. okbluejays 4 years ago

    I feel this is a solid trade for both teams, the Cubs get a good #2/3 starter who’s under control for the next few years, and is still young enough to improve. While the Rays get 2 good prospects and some depth guys that could help them soon. While I think the Cubs over-payed a bit, I do like Garza and at least the Cubbies got two serviceable prospects in return. Garza might have to get his fly-ball rate down a bit if he wants to be successful in Wrigley, but I think he’ll do fine especially against NL competion rather than the stiff AL East. This also saves TB some money in the short-term to let them try and add another bad potentially, since they are in need of probably a DH after losing a few big pieces in the off-season. You have to give it to TB, they just keep re-stocking that farm system and are likely to be contenders for years to come, bravo.

  16. grownice 4 years ago

    Looks like the unnamed pitcher is just a throw in eh experts? ya thats what i thought!

  17. nebelski 4 years ago

    DANG! That Rosscup hasn’t given up a homer in 2 years of relief in the minors… impressive!

  18. Stl_Great 4 years ago

    I’m liking this new picture thing, makes article’s look better ; On the Cubs acquiring Matt Garza, Another guy Pujols can smash on.

    • studio179 4 years ago

      Ah, but Pujols and Garza will be teammates after 2011…in Chicago. 😉

  19. trollyou 4 years ago

    Cool story, bro.

  20. trollyou 4 years ago

    Cool story, bro.

  21. renegade24 4 years ago

    cacs

  22. renegade24 4 years ago

    cacs

  23. grownice 4 years ago

    umm its for Garza and 2 more… you realize that right?

  24. Lunchbox45 4 years ago

    Archer isn’t their #1.. Jackson, and Mcnutt, Archer #3

  25. grownice 4 years ago

    UMMMMMMMM they just might be of some significance, you cant just assume they arent just “because” … lets just wait and see?

  26. true, but aren’t they are the only publication or person of significance that has ranked him #1.

  27. Lunchbox45 4 years ago

    Well
    MinorLeagueBall has him at #3..

    baseball america spreads itself too thin and often lacks more knowledge than numbers suggest

    I mean last year they had the Jays top prospect as Chad Jenkins, like C’mon

  28. BlueCatuli 4 years ago

    Personally, I’m glad McNutt is not gouge anywhere.

  29. MB923 4 years ago

    Well I’ll say it depends on what players, besides Garza, the Rays gave up. But still, Matt Garza is a number 2 starter. This is something that could have gotten them Greinke it seems. This is of course, assuming these propsects turn out to be good which not always happens. But those are some pretty good numbers those Cubs prospects put up, even if it’s in A or AA

  30. Steve_in_MA 4 years ago

    From what I can tell, they got a world championship High A infield out of the deal. Two to three years from now, they will have a very strong MLB team, built almost entirely on young, cheap, controllable labor. I don’t think Garza was worth as much as the Rays got for him, so in my mind, its a big, lopsided win for the Rays. But if the Cubs goal is to win now, they moved forward in that category, and are probably not big losers.

  31. bobbybaseball 4 years ago

    Are you kidding me? Archer is NOT the only one who isn’t organizational filler. Hak-Ju Lee is actually the prize for the Rays. Sure, he’s 2-3 years away but he looks to be a potential star SS.

  32. grownice 4 years ago

    so its 3 for 1 swap like i expected, 2 middle tier guys from tampa, 2 middle tierguys from cubs , a wash indeed.

  33. Guest 4 years ago

    Touché.

    I do think it’s great that Yankee and Red Sox fans have to fear the Rays. But if I were a fan of either of those clubs, I just don’t think I could be proud of anything my team accomplished unless I knew they were facing the best of competition.

  34. His numbers in that park plus the fact he is fastball pitcher, something young NL hitters feast on, will be a disaster for Garza and the Cubbies.

  35. PennMariner 4 years ago

    Good players are always named immediately. I wouldn’t get my hopes up. This is a win for the Rays.

  36. MB923 4 years ago

    Thank you, misread it. Happens sometimes.

  37. Sniderlover 4 years ago

    I believe it was Stewart but they didn’t update. It would have been Drabek/Wallace/Stewart/D’Arnaud/Jenkins

  38. MB923 4 years ago

    I certainly do not fear the 2011 Rays

  39. Guest 4 years ago

    Who said anything about professional talent scouts? Last I checked, they’re not generally in the habit of making their opinions publicly known, much less are they in the habit of publishing lists of their favorite prospects.

    I was obviously referring to websites that put top-10 and top-100 lists together, based on second and third-hand information. Sure, they’re fun to look at. And I never said that they were total nonsense. But a lot of people take them WAY too seriously. If you can point me to ONE past list that came anywhere close to accurately predicting how all the prospects in it turned out, I would love to see it!

  40. studio179 4 years ago

    McNutt was not going anywhere. He was just drafted last June. PTBNL types when guys were just drafted do not happen often. Besides, McNutt was a selection of Wilken. He is proud he found him so low (32nd round) to rise so quickly.

  41. renegade24 4 years ago

    Because real talent evaluators always accurately predict how prospects turn out too right? Er no they don’t, it’s a pretty big crapshoot.

  42. Guest 4 years ago

    Are you guys having a contest to see who can put the most words in my mouth?

    Of course it’s one big crapshoot. That was my original point! Just because I had to concede that professional talent scouts are obviously a lot more competent than people’s favorite websites, it doesn’t mean that I think they’re all-knowing. Geez. The only reason I even brought them up is because blackcourt missed my point by a mile.

  43. crunchy1 4 years ago

    Thanks for re-instating my comment, MLBTR!!

  44. basemonkey 4 years ago

    Are you kidding me? This tells me you haven’t actually watched this kid pitch in person. Garza is not a #2 starter. He’s a future #1 Ace.

    He only started out the majors performing at a #2 level. He’s only 26. The only team in the majors who might be ok with trading away a pitcher like this is the Rays who have probably a boatload of #1 guys, on which this rotation, Garza by comparison might look like a #2.

  45. kdawg89 4 years ago

    I agree..Once he gets the mental part of the game down (Witness his No-Hitter) he’ll be a threat to win 16+ games every year for a while. His stuff is flat out filthy. Think the Rays did well here for the future, but they just screwed themselves for next 2-3 yrs. to compete for a playoff birth. Wish they would have moved Shields instead.

  46. bobbybaseball 4 years ago

    Garza is not an ace but he has the stuff to be one.

  47. MB923 4 years ago

    Go on FanGraphs, they actually compare Garza to Aaron Harrang. If Garza is an ace to you, then that could make Aaron Harrang an ace if you look at some stats they show.

    They don’t show all the stats below in the article but let me show them assuming you use these type of stats:

    3.97 ERA, 107 ERA+, 7.1 K/9, 3.2 BB/9, 1.31 WHIP

    Good starter? Yes. Ace? No.

  48. MaineSox 4 years ago

    Garza would be a #2 or lower on at least half of the teams in baseball right now.

  49. bobbybaseball 4 years ago

    We already know that Perez is one of the guys and he isn’t going to make anyone’s prospect list and I’m guessing the other guys is just organizational filler or no better that the secondary guys the Cubs are giving up (Fuld, Guyer).

  50. crunchy1 4 years ago

    The article is by Dave Cameron, who couldn’t say enough about how shrewd the Mariners pick-ups were last year. We know how well that went so I’ll take his new comments with a grain of salt. Besides, the article immediately afterward disagrees with Cameron’s assessment on Garza.

  51. basemonkey 4 years ago

    You can pay too much attention to the Internet image of a player here. Harang and Garza might have been compared to each other statistically for fantasy reasons, but the reality is that Garza has a overpowering 92-94 mph fastball (tops at 97 mph) and slider combo that is overpowering. Harang has had good peaks in his career but his game is not to be that kind of pitcher.

    If you think they’re the same kind of pitcher I can see why you might think Garza is a #2, but I am telling you, based on seeing him all the time the last several years, to the eyes, he’s not a #2. If you’re still stuck on that, maybe the case can be made that he’s a Andy Pettitte type of #2, which to me, is a pretty damn good pitcher, and much better than Harang.

  52. Those numbers are American League East numbers……..a far cry from the lineups he’ll be facing in the NL Central (the lineups Harang as gotten to face.

    Instead of comparing a NL Central pitcher’s 2010 stats (or even career stats) to an AL East pitcher’s 2010 stats (or career stats), how about we just wait until 2011?

  53. MaineSox 4 years ago

    You mean when he said “I’m not sure I’d go that far.”? Yeah, striking rebuke…

    I’m sure you know better than a guy who gets paid to know this stuff though.

  54. crunchy1 4 years ago

    Didn’t say it was a “rebuke”. Just said it disagrees, though he does it politely. I know enough to have my own opinion and not take Cameron’s word as gospel.

    And I get paid to write too…just not about baseball. Doesn’t mean somebody can’t disagree with me or think my writing stinks, right?

  55. MB923 4 years ago

    Okay just citing the source of the article and I’m not sure if you go on there or not but it’s a site several fans go on. Of course like most I’d take Garza over Harang, I”m sure anyone would. My point is, Garza is not an ace pitcher. And if you want to compare him to Pettitte, that’s fine, but Pettitte wasn’t/isn’t an ace either.

  56. Ferrariman 4 years ago

    they moved Garza so they could add Hellickson, the best regarded starting pitching prospect in baseball, to there rotation. How does this screw themselves for 2-3 years? Shields had a bad season, but his peripherals were still good and is a bounceback candidate. He also has the more team friendly contract. If anything, adding hellickson and losing Garza helped the Rays for 2011 and they got prospects. I know im making it sound like Hellickson is a sure thing but he is as close to one as you can get to be honest. This is a roll of the dice worth taking every time.

  57. Yeah, Hak-Ju Lee is a prize alright, just look at the “formerly prized” Josh Vitters of years past. Looks like no takers there. He is a long way off, a risk worth taking for a solid #2 GROUND BALL pitcher.

  58. kdawg89 4 years ago

    Another person had posted that they screwed themselves for atleast 2-3 yrs. because none of those prospects were going to be in the majors before then. I was rebutting…As far as Hellickson..he may be a great prospect but he’s also a rookie and will have ups and downs much like Price and any of the other young Rays staff did. I see him putting up similar #’s to what Davis did. Shields needs to bounce back in order for this trade to look good NOW. If he shows the same form as last yr. we will probably win about 85 games and finish in 3rd or 4th place. As far as the contract we would have paid through the nose to keep Garza as where Shields may be signed at a discount if his #’s don’t improve so it was the right thing to do. This team is basically like a college team..they don’t rebuild they reload. This will always be how they do things. Develop good young players then let them go or trade them when they become expensive. Look for Longoria and Price to be gone within next 3-4 yrs….And yes I know they’re under team control longer than that but if they get a good enough offer they’ll move them while the iron is hot.

  59. MaineSox 4 years ago

    You can certainly disagree with him, I do too sometimes.

    I probably came off as snarkier than I should have, but you were essentially dismissing everything he writes because he though that the Mariners were making good moves and were going to be a pretty good team last year, something many people all over baseball were saying not just Dave. You also didn’t give any evidence to back up why you thought the comparison was a bad one, only that he is wrong because he was wrong once before.

  60. MaineSox 4 years ago

    Unless I missed something the only trades he was talked about being part of were for Lee, Halladay, and later on in a Soria swap.

  61. MB923 4 years ago

    I never said Garza wasn’t a good pitcher. I said he isn’t an Ace. How hard is something so simple to understand?

  62. MB923 4 years ago

    He’ll still be pitching against the Cardinals and Reds and Brewers. Now I know there offenses aren’t as good as Yankees and Red Sox, but they still have a pretty good offense and it still won’t be an easy task for Garza.

  63. MB923 4 years ago

    Well said

  64. “World championship High A infield”?????????

    Let me explain something to you about prospects… especially High A prospects. At least 75% of the time, they DON’T PAN OUT. The Rays will be happy with their haul form this trade if just one of the four players becomes a quality major league player.

  65. “World championship High A infield”?????????

    Let me explain something to you about prospects… especially High A prospects. At least 75% of the time, they DON’T PAN OUT. The Rays will be happy with their haul form this trade if just one of the four players becomes a quality major league player.

  66. okbluejays 4 years ago

    When did Garza become a groundball pitcher? Unless this was sarcasm, then I apologize.

  67. way to research bro, Marmol’s 3.25 career ERA is due to his terrible job as a starter in his rookie season, if you look at his stats since he became a full time relief pitcher, he sports a 2.54 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 12.9 K/9. If you don’t think that’s great than I don’t know what game you’ve been watching. As far as turning 29 this year, it won’t be until after the regular season is over, so instead of trying to make 29 sound old you should realize that he’s only going to be 28 during the season and your argument is completely invalid. Unless your closer is Mo, I’d stop myself before trying to take shots at Marmol.

  68. Jntg4 4 years ago

    No, Not at all. My point is that the Reds won’t be having 109 games against losing teams a season, when the schedule gets harder, which it inevitably will, they are bound to have a big decline.

  69. Jntg4 4 years ago

    No, Not at all. My point is that the Reds won’t be having 109 games against losing teams a season, when the schedule gets harder, which it inevitably will, they are bound to have a big decline.

  70. Kwpilger 4 years ago

    Everyone seems to forget that the Cubs were one of the top two teams in the majors in the second half of the season last year. Garza will be going from the AL East to the NL central so just think of how much better he can be. I look for the Cubs second half last year to role over to this year but with even better pitching.
    The Reds will be back at the bottom of the division with Pittsburgh for the next 10 years where they belong. Sorry, that’s just the way it is.

  71. Steve_in_MA 4 years ago

    Thanks, Dan. I’d say less than 10% of them actually pan out as MLB regulars. But the Rays scouting staff are very good talent evaluators. They’ve chosen these prospects because they demonstrate speed and bat discipline. I think there is a very strong likelihood that Lee will become a successful MLB shortstop. I think there’s a 50/50 chance Chiniros will become a journeyman catcher. I’m not impressed with either of the outfielders in the deal, but they might become replacement level fill-ins/bench guys. As for Archer, he’s a huge question mark. He has strong stuff and is starting now, but might be better suited to become a closer. We will have to see how they develop. But combined with the Rays already superlative farm system (top 3), my prediction about their future definitely holds true.

  72. grownice 4 years ago

    Ya rosscup is clearly garbage…

  73. grownice 4 years ago

    ya rosscup, definately a filler

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