Cubs Acquire Matt Garza

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Eight player trades don't come along very often, but the Rays and Cubs finalized one today. Tampa sent Matt Garza, Fernando Perez, and minor leaguer Zach Rosscup to Chicago in exchange for Sam Fuld and prospects Chris Archer, Brandon Guyer, Robinson Chirinos, and Hak-Ju Lee.

Garza, 27, posted a 3.91 ERA with 6.6 K/9, 2.8 BB/9 and a 35.8% ground ball rate in 204 2/3 innings for the Rays last year. He heads to arbitration for the second time this winter and is set to receive a raise from the $3.35MM salary he earned in 2010.

Garza joins Ryan Dempster, Tom Gorzelanny, Randy Wells, Carlos Zambrano and Carlos Silva in a crowded Chicago rotation. It wouldn't be surprising to see Cubs starters appear in trade rumors before long. If any team could afford to spare a starter, it was the Rays, who still have David Price, James Shields, Jeff Niemann, Wade Davis and Jeremy Hellickson. The return from the Cubs doesn't impact Tampa's Opening Day roster, but it adds depth to the Rays' already impressive farm system.

Baseball America ranked Archer first among Cubs prospects this offseason while Lee placed fourth and Guyer placed tenth. Archer, a 22-year-old right-hander, made it as high as Double-A last year. The starting pitcher posted a 2.34 ERA with 9.4 K/9 and 4.1 BB/9, limiting opponents to 6.4 H/9. The Cubs acquired him from the Indians just over two years ago in the Mark DeRosa trade. Jim Callis of Baseball America notes that Archer is a year away from the majors and could be a closer in the future (Twitter link).

It's not a great time to be an up-and-coming shortstop in the Cubs organization, as Starlin Castro figures to be the team's shortstop for years. Lee, who was born seven months after Castro, is also a highly-regarded shortstop. The native of Korea has a .299/.370/.375 line with 57 stolen bases in two pro seasons. When Baseball America ranked Lee sixth among Cubs prospects before the season, the publication described him as a gifted hitter with the tools to make difficult defensive plays.

Guyer, who turns 25 this month, posted a .344/.398/.588 line in 410 plate apperances at Double-A last year. He has played all three outfield positions in his four-year minor league career.

Chirinos, who turns 27 this month, has infield experience, but has primarily been a catcher in 2009-10. He hit .326/.416/.583 with 18 home runs in the upper minors last year.

Fuld, 29, has a .252/.368/.344 line in 155 big league plate appearances spread over three seasons. The outfielder has spent most of his six-year pro career in the minors, where he has a .285/.372/.405 line.

Perez, 27, has a .234/.301/.351 line in 107 big league plate appearances. He hit .223/.280/.299 in 426 plate appearances at Triple-A last year.

The 22-year-old Rosscup was the Rays' 28th round selection in 2009. Last season, he registered a 2.64 ERA with 8.3 K/9 and 1.8 BB/9 for the Rays' Gulf Coast and Single A affiliates.

ESPN.com's Buster Olney hears from a talent evaluator that the Rays' haul gives them depth, but not necessarily impact players (Twitter link). MLB.com's Jonathan Mayo agrees and notes that Archer and Lee have some good upside (Twitter link).

ESPN Chicago's Bruce Levine first reported that the deal was in place, though he and Bruce Miles of the Daily Herald both reported that the deal was close. Miles later added Perez's inclusion, both Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports and Gordon Wittenmyer of The Chicago Sun-Times added details (via Twitter).

Photo courtesy of Icon SMI.


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510 Comments on "Cubs Acquire Matt Garza"


Martin M.
4 years 7 months ago

Will he win the World Series with the Cubs? Never!

WrigleyTerror37
4 years 7 months ago

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I HATE THIS TRADE!!!!!!

Cubs lose Lee, Archer,Guyer, there goes the ss of the futer with CASTRO GOING TO 2B. AND WE JUST TRADED AWAY EVERYONE FORM THE DeRosa trad besides Stevens. Not to mention Sam Fuild the Fan fav :(
I like Garza but not for the price of what they gave up.

ClarkAddison
4 years 7 months ago

Are you seriously upset about the Cubs trading “fan favorite” Sam Fuld? This is a solid move by the Cubs and should set up another deal moving a SP like Gorzelanny or Wells to get a prospect or two in return.

Garza, Dempster, and Zambrano make a competitive starting three

jwsox
4 years 7 months ago

you will get one prospect of value in return for either of those guys if its a multiple prospect deal it will be 1 good guy and some fillers

bobbybaseball
4 years 7 months ago

Who the hell cares about Fuld?

4 years 7 months ago

I would play Fuld over Fukudome or Byrd.

burtonbball88
4 years 7 months ago

Byrd is an all-star, Fuld has never been close to owning a starting job with any major league team. Ever.

4 years 7 months ago

Someone give Jon a Brain because this is dumb as hell.

4 years 7 months ago

Someone give Jon a Brain because this is dumb as hell.

4 years 7 months ago

I agree one player is not worth all those good prospects

genxhumanist
4 years 7 months ago

I love this trade…because I’m a Reds fan. You guys move from 75 up to 80 wins next year while trading away all those prospects. Good move for the future of the Rays.

Jntg4
4 years 7 months ago

And your Reds, wow. They played 53 games against teams that were .500 or above and went 20-33. You played 109 games against below .500 teams. Right, you guys are so good.

galloway84
4 years 7 months ago

This was the same Cubs team couldn’t beat the immortal Pirates. The Rays have a deep rotation in Price, Niemann, Davis, Shields and Hellickson. They moved Garza salary to clear up space to upgrade the bullpen help and a proven DH. The Rays theory is that since their starting pitchers that I mentioned all from the Rays system, Garza wasn’t in their system; they don’t know what will happen if he will break down in the near future. See Scott Kazmir trade in 2009. Rays are very patient with their farm system and have players develop the right way. This is a win-win trade for both teams.

ophaq2
4 years 7 months ago

The Reds have fans?

The_Silver_Stacker
4 years 7 months ago

Quality SP is at an all time high in terms of demands, as alot of teams are locking up young arms

4 years 7 months ago

I feel like the Cubs gave up a lot. He is a good pitcher, but I was under the impression we needed more offense. Carlos Pena has been the only offensive pickup, and he “may” be an upgrade, but I just openly wonder if it’s enough with so many swing and miss hitters and the slowness of the team on the basepaths.

MB923
4 years 7 months ago

I think the Rays won this trade

Edited. I removed “easily”, but nontheless, I think the Rays still won the trade, at least certainly in the long run.

4 years 7 months ago

Man, talk about giving away the farm. Hendry needs to go.

BlueCatuli
4 years 7 months ago

He did not give away the farm. They still have Brett Jackson, Chris Carpenter, Reggie Golden, DJ Lemehieu and Josh Vitters. The guys they gave up were good, but the Cubs still have several good prospects. The best part about this trade is that Sam Fuld will stop being mentioned as the lead off man.

cubs223425
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah, he only traded the #1 SP prospect, the #1 MI prospect/leadoff hitter, the #2 OF prospect, the #1 C prospect, and a good defensive 4th OF for a guy that is probably going to top out about where Archer will.

4 years 7 months ago

If those are really the organizational ranks by position for those guys then the Cubs system is in dire trouble. Archer’s put up good stats at a young age, but I doubt you ever miss the rest of those guys.

jb226
4 years 7 months ago

Really? We’re not going to miss Hak-Ju Lee, who a scout said basically has the potential to be Jose Reyes with better defense and slightly less (home run) power?

We’ll just turn to one of the many other options for a leadoff… oh, we haven’t had one in four years or for four years before that?

BillB325
4 years 7 months ago

Ever heard of Tony Campana? look at his numbers in AA I think he be a pretty good base-stealer

jayrig5
4 years 7 months ago

How many errors did Lee have in the minors last season? 34. The most Reyes ever had at any level was 18. Reyes has no real power to speak of, so it’s not like Lee having slightly less power is a positive.

Lee is a long way away. And he’s only a few months younger than Castro. Granted, Castro needs to improve defensively as well, but still. The Cubs shortstop of the future is playing at Wrigley this year. Chirinos…he’s only slightly younger than Soto. Those are two prospects that the Cubs were able to deal because of organizational depth at certain positions. They happened to match up well with the Rays needs. Archer is the top pitcher, yes, but a lot of things have to go right for him to be as successful as Garza has proven to be…

I have no issue with this at all, especially after the various reports that have come out stating that the Rays didn’t get any superstar prospects, with Olney also saying that other scouts told him the Rays were picking from one of the worst systems in baseball. I’m personally glad the Cubs are done overvaluing certain guys. (The infamous Felix Pie “We wouldn’t trade him for DiMaggio” story comes to mind.)

In the end, you still have one of the best young players in the majors at short, a relatively young catcher coming off a very underrated bounceback season, and a rotation that at the very least should be competent, and potentially good. So trading a catching prospect, a shortstop prospect, and two filler outfielders doesn’t bother me at all. I mean, in all seriousness, when has Hendry ever, ever looked bad for trading prospects that came back to haunt him? (Nolasco for Pierre, probably, right?) His history is the opposite, he hangs on to guys far too long.

4 years 7 months ago

Well put. I only wish they could’ve sent Smardj and Vitters instead of Archer and Lee. Maybe Lee could’ve played second but you’re looking at 2 years down the road. I have to give Hendry, Ricketts and company credit for trying to put a winning team on the field now. They could easily throw in the towel for 2 years until some of the bad contracts come off the books. I agree with trying to win now, thats what you paid these guys for!!

4 years 7 months ago

Do you know what “potential” means?

4 years 7 months ago

Do you know what “potential” means?

BornRed
4 years 7 months ago

Just no. Fuld is a non-factor. He’s a 29 year old that wasn’t going to make the major league club. Wellington Castillo is a better catching prospect than Chirinos. Archer is far from a sure thing to top out as a #2 starter. Garza already is that.

cubs223425
4 years 7 months ago

Yeah, but Garza’s got half the service time left and will be MUCH more expensive. Castillo MIGHT be better defensively as a C, but Chirinos has played all 5 IF position and OPSed over 1.000 in his short AAA stint last year.

4 years 7 months ago

Fuld is NOT a solid #4 OF or he would’ve been on the roster last year. He is a career minor leauger.

cubs223425
4 years 7 months ago

Fuld just has a slightly above-average UZR of 2.8 for his career and an OPS+ of 85, with his only half-season being that of a 112 OPS+. He is about replacement-level. He’s decent as a #4 defensive replacement late in games, and he has stolen 20+ bases in each of the last 2 seasons at AAA.

I’m not calling him a GREAT 4th OF or a great player, but he does his job.

jwsox
4 years 7 months ago

vitters who more and more people on blogs, fans, and even baseball prospects are projecting to do nothing in the bigs

BlueCatuli
4 years 7 months ago

Vitters is still too young to cast aside, and before he got her last year he was starting to come around. Look for him to have a big year in 2011.

bobbybaseball
4 years 7 months ago

Vitters absolutely refuses to take a walk. I doubt he will ever amount to much.

BlueCatuli
4 years 7 months ago

If that’s the biggest knock on him then he will be fine. Patience can be learned.

jwsox
4 years 7 months ago

seriously giving up 4-5 of your top ten prospects for a #2 pitcher thats not a very good move…its not bad but not good..

4 years 7 months ago

Look at it this way.

Two years ago, the top pitching and hitting prospects in the Cubs’ system were Josh Vitters and Jeff Samardzija, and everyone would have been freaking out if they were traded. In retrospect, it would have been wise to shop them around because neither looks like panning out. Similarly, trading Archer and Lee may not be all that bad.

4 years 7 months ago

Look at it this way.

Two years ago, the top pitching and hitting prospects in the Cubs’ system were Josh Vitters and Jeff Samardzija, and everyone would have been freaking out if they were traded. In retrospect, it would have been wise to shop them around because neither looks like panning out. Similarly, trading Archer and Lee may not be all that bad.

DickAlmighty
4 years 7 months ago

I’m not sure how you make say that. The Cubs are apparently acquiring two minor-leaguers along with Garza in this deal (an OF and a P), and we don’t even know who those guys are yet. Little premature to declare an “easy win” for the Rays when you don’t even know two of the guys the Rays are giving up.

That said, I’m not sure I would deal Archer for Garza straight up if I were the Cubs. Garza isn’t an ace; he’s not even a Shawn Marcum. He’s a flyball pitcher with a better-than-average K-rate, who will probably be a 3.50-4.00 ERA guy. Archer had some upside, and according to Baseball HQ, he jumped his velocity last year and “keeps getting better and better.” I’d take six years of cost-controlled Archer over Garza’s last two arb years… at least if I wasn’t deluding myself into thinking I had a chance to win the NL Central in the next two years.

If the Cubs make some other moves to bring them up to par with the Cards, Brewers, and Reds, this makes some sense. Otherwise, this seems like a waste of a young trading chip (Archer).

jwsox
4 years 7 months ago

the cubs got a 27 year old OF guy who is bad and dont know on the pitcher yet but it probably wont amount to anything more than a projected middle relief guy

JTT11
4 years 7 months ago

sorry jwsox. you forgot to finish your last sentence.

the cubs got a 27 year old OF guy who is bad and dont know on the pitcher yet but it probably wont amount to anything more than a projected middle relief guy in AAA.

kdawg89
4 years 7 months ago

Perez is under rated…He is coming off a shoulder surgery and is just now getting back to form. He is an excellent defender with great speed. If he hadn’t gotten hurt he’d probably be patrolling CF for the rays instead of Upton. He may end up surprising you and al ot of other Cubs fans.

MB923
4 years 7 months ago

“Garza isn’t an ace; he’s not even a Shawn Marcum. He’s a flyball pitcher with a better-than-average K-rate, who will probably be a 3.50-4.00 ERA guy.”

Tell that then to basemonkey who apparently thinks Garza is without a doubt an ace.

“If the Cubs make some other moves to bring them up to par with the Cards, Brewers, and Reds, this makes some sense. Otherwise, this seems like a waste of a young trading chip ”

That’s one of the reasons why I said the Rays win the trade. Maybe I should have said why, and I apologize for not doing that.

diesel2410
4 years 7 months ago

Agreed. It also gives the Rays financial flexibility this year to sign a DH/closer

FNDomination
4 years 7 months ago

I absolutely love this trade for the Cubs! The Rays did not win this trade.

grownice
4 years 7 months ago

Yet… with that massive cropp 1 or 2 is bound to be stars lol

gunsnascar
4 years 7 months ago

lee has alot to prove at the big leagues and archer is a big fish in a small pond in the minors.
Is that your futre starts for the rays?
They may be but Ive seen many cubs highly touted prospects go bust so I do like the trade from the cubs side on paper.

gunsnascar
4 years 7 months ago

lee has alot to prove at the big leagues and archer is a big fish in a small pond in the minors.
Is that your futre starts for the rays?
They may be but Ive seen many cubs highly touted prospects go bust so I do like the trade from the cubs side on paper.

4 years 7 months ago

really? the cubs gave up their whole farm system and the rays scouting team is top notch. they wouldn’t have given him up for nothing!

NorthSideIrish
4 years 7 months ago

That’s what scares me…the TB scouting department seems to be much smarter than the Cubs. But I’m hoping it’s a good deal for both sides.

NorthSideIrish
4 years 7 months ago

That’s what scares me…the TB scouting department seems to be much smarter than the Cubs. But I’m hoping it’s a good deal for both sides.

4 years 7 months ago

Their whole farm system? Archer is a talent, but the rest were B/C prospects who were hopelessly blocked on the Cubs. I actually think they deserve kudos for getting value on guys like Chirinos before they turned back into pumpkins.

baseballz
4 years 7 months ago

This seems like such a salary dump for Tampa. I know your trying to lower your payroll but was this the best you could do ? The only way this could be worse for Tampa was if they were forced to take Yuniesky Betancourt.

Every team has these AAAA 27-29 year olds who tear up the minors and can’t stick in the bigs. Even though there in the same divison, I would much rather have seen the Rays get Montero from the Yanks and have to face Garza more often then get a Santanaeque package for one of your best trade chips.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

No way the Yankees would have even considered dealing Montero in a Garza deal. No. Way.

JTT11
4 years 7 months ago

ummmmm …..Yeah they would. In a heartbeat.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

Are you serious? Why in the world would the Yankees do anything but laugh at the idea of trading a guy who is in the top five on all of the major prospect rankings, for a guy who would be, at best, a #3 in their rotation? The Yankees have only been willing to even talk about including him in trades for Lee and Halladay, the only thing Garza has in common with those two is the fact that he wears a hat.

4 years 7 months ago

Because he can’t play in the field?

baseballz
4 years 7 months ago

I think he means they all had three years of control left … oh whoops no they don’t. They were willing to trade Montero for a few month rental of Lee and Halliday, whereas Garza would be with them till 2013.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

They weren’t going to trade Montero for Lee or Halladay just to let them walk at the end of the year.

Even if Montero ends up as a DH, his hitting abilities (plus many, cheap, years under control) will make him more valuable to the Yankees than 3 years of a decent pitcher.

baseballz
4 years 7 months ago

I don’t think we can draw any conclusions on how players will respond to being traded for especially when it comes to Cliff Lee. We know the Yanks would have traded him for a rental; anything else is pure speculation on your part.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

It was an assumption on my part so I should have said so. But I think it is pretty safe to assume that the Yankees would have asked for a window to negotiate an extension with either pitcher and could have backed out of the deal if they couldn’t agree on an extension.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

The Yankees still seem to think he can.

JTT11
4 years 7 months ago

hes not athletic at all. he cant throw the ball. hes not consistant. we have Austin Romaine, Gary Sanchez, and JR Murphy. All of which are consistant, have above adverage power, can call a game, and play better defense.

Defensively, there isnt much difference between having montero behind the plate and having a toothless bear play catcher.

baseballz
4 years 7 months ago

Sorry I was using Yankees for Montero as more of an ‘example’ of trading a known quantity in Garza for a sure fire top prospect like Montero. I don’t like this trade because, like the Santana trade, your getting the top of a weak farm system plus a few AAAA guys for one of your best trade chips.

That said though, how would Garza not be the #2 on the Yankees ? Who’s gonna be placed over him ? Burnett ? If he repeats last year he’ll be lucky to stay out of the pen. Unless of course you buy into the rhetoric about him training extra hard in his barn to try and be in the … wait for the cliche… best shape of his life !

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

Unless he bombs next year Hughes is a much better pitcher than Garza. Particularly since Garza is a fly-ball pitcher and would be pitching in the launching pad known as Yankee stadium, I don’t think that would be pretty.

bobbybaseball
4 years 7 months ago

Hughes>Garza

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

garza >hughes!

baseballz
4 years 7 months ago

Sorry I was using Yankees for Montero as more of an ‘example’ of trading a known quantity in Garza for a sure fire top prospect like Montero. I don’t like this trade because, like the Santana trade, your getting the top of a weak farm system plus a few AAAA guys for one of your best trade chips.

That said though, how would Garza not be the #2 on the Yankees ? Who’s gonna be placed over him ? Burnett ? If he repeats last year he’ll be lucky to stay out of the pen. Unless of course you buy into the rhetoric about him training extra hard in his barn to try and be in the … wait for the cliche… best shape of his life !

kdawg89
4 years 7 months ago

Obviously you’ve never seen him pitch..The kid has ELECTRIC stuff and once he matures a little more (He’s only 26) he will be a dominant starter. BTW he went head to head with Lee when Lee was with the Mariners and out pitched him both times….

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

He’s only 26, and has been pitching in the majors for 5 years (full time for 3). If he hasn’t figured it out yet, the chances of him doing it are getting pretty small. Guys don’t usually pitch consistently OK for several year and suddenly “figure it out”. He’s a good pitcher but he is by no means an Ace.

Pitchers don’t go head to head unless it’s an NL game and one is batting. Garza doing well pitching against the Mariners while Lee pitched well going against the Rays means absolutely nothing. Have you looked at Garza’s numbers? He hasn’t pitched as well as either of Beckett or Lackey over the past three years and people are down pretty hard on those two, so what makes worse numbers better for Garza?

DickAlmighty
4 years 7 months ago

Agree — most pitchers either have it when they gets called up, or they don’t. Pitchers’ career performance curves don’t follow a nice upslope-and-downslope like most hitters’ curves do, where the speed peaks early, the power peaks around 27-32, and the plate discipline peaks in the 30s. Most ace pitchers are ace pitchers when they arrive on the scene, and many of them burn out early. The late-bloomers (e.g., a Cliff Lee, who became an ace after a few years in the league) are rare. Garza probably is what he is — he’s not suddenly going to “figure it out.” If anything, he’s settling into being more of a pitch-to-contact guy — his K/9 rate dropped from 8.4 to 6.6 last season, while his BB/9 rate dropped from 3.5 to 2.8. The lower BB-rate is a good thing, but the lower K-rate suggests his “stuff” isn’t as “devastating” as the stuff of most “aces.”

kdawg89
4 years 7 months ago

Maybe not “figure it out” suddenly, but you can actually learn how to pitch instead of just going up there and trying to blow everyone away with 96 mph fastballs. That’s where he is at now, much like the entire Rays staff. They have to figure out how and where to locate, change speeds,trust pitch selection, hitter tendencies etc. As they mature they will make adjustments. I think Garza will do better in the N.L. as well. I wish him the best of luck and we will miss him as a player and a genuine “team” guy. If nothing else he’ll have the Cubs clubhouse a lot looser, the guy is hilarious….

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

He very well may (even probably will) learn to locate pitches better, and will as a result become a better pitcher, but it is very hard to see him progressing in leaps and bounds to the point where he becomes an Ace. He already is a good pitchers and going to the NL will likely only help, but it’s hard to say that some one who is decent in the AL and good in the NL is an Ace, a true Ace would be one whether he was in the AL or NL.

kdawg89
4 years 7 months ago

I agree, but I don’t recall ever using the word “ACE” to describe him. Right now I’d say he’s a good #2 or even #3 starter on some teams. He may or may not become a staff ace, but being as I said, a “dominant starter” doesn’t mean you’re the Ace, it just means you have stuff to dominate hitters with any given start…The Phillies have 4 dominant starters but I’d only consider Halladay and Lee “Aces” and Lee has even been inconsistent at times other than never walking anyone. I think he’ll do well, but I iwould have rather seen the Rays keep him and trade him at the deadline to give Hellickson some more time as a spot starter and long reliever. Guess this is best trade for both clubs right now so more power to them. Hope it works out for both.

kdawg89
4 years 7 months ago

The Rays would have NEVER considered it…You really think they would have gave the Yankees even more strength in the SAME division…SERIOUSLY?? Catchers are NEVER a sure thing unless you’re Joe Mauer…Garza’s a proven arm. It’s bad enough they lost Crawford to the Sox, I doubt they’d do any trade that buried them more in the division. Only way they’d have done that trade was if it was Montero AND Gardner to take over for Crawford and Yankees wouldn’t have done that no matter how bad they need pitching.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

I hope this is a joke but sadly I don’t think it is. Montero AND Gardner for Garza? No.

kdawg89
4 years 7 months ago

That’s what I said..apparently you didn’t get that the trade WOULD NEVER HAPPEN WITHIN THE DIVISION!!! Maybe the Sox can trade Youk to the Rays for a really good prospect to help the Rays out with the hole at 1st base….That’s what good teams do, help the competition improve while weakening themselves.

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

An all-star middle of the order position player is a little bit different than a middle of the rotation pitcher. A better comparison would be “Maybe the Sox can trade Lackey to the Rays for a really good prospect to help the Rays out”, the Sox would certainly do that.

kdawg89
4 years 7 months ago

Nah…not Lackey, we don’t need starters…Tell you what, I’ll give you Shields, BJ Upton, Kelly Shoppach and Justin Ruggiano for Youk, Papelbon and Nava..lol

MaineSox
4 years 7 months ago

Not saying that that is what the Rays would need, only that it is a more reasonable comparison.

kdawg89
4 years 7 months ago

OK..was trying to joke with ya but I guess it got lost in translation…

Vmmercan
4 years 7 months ago

The Yankees offered Montero for Soria, Lee and Halladay straight up. There is no chance the Rays would get him for any player on that team except Price and Longoria or one of their top prospects. But that would never happen. Nor should it.

JTT11
4 years 7 months ago

Teams dont swap top prospect for top prospect.

and they most certainly offered other prospects in addition to montero in each one package offered for lee and halladay. the yankees have not offered anyone for soria. They have just been listening to what it would take. big difference.

bobbybaseball
4 years 7 months ago

Not true. Lee is actually my #1 prospect over Archer.

BlueCatuli
4 years 7 months ago

Not even close to giving up the whole farm.

Sniderlover
4 years 7 months ago

Bunch of average prospects isn’t the whole farm. Archer and Lee are really the only decent prospects they got.

Good deal for the Cubs IMO. Gave quantity over quality.

jwsox
4 years 7 months ago

average prospects? they are all top rated guys except for fuld who is a solid 4th of

baseballz
4 years 7 months ago

Really ? Are any of these guys top 100 prospects ? Im not being facetious, I can’t find any top 100’s which are recent. From what I can tell all these guys have well respected tools, but their is no concensus that they will be above average. Archer was rated a fourstar prospect which is the best that i’ve seen.

jb226
4 years 7 months ago

They’re among the best prospects in the Cubs’ farm system. Archer was quite probably our top pitching prospect and Hak-Ju Lee was our top infield prospect and, more importantly, had a real chance to be the leadoff hitter that the Cubs’ have had only one year of in the last decade–a guy named Juan Pierre, who we also got fleeced in a trade for and who, like every other person the Cubs bring in for the position, absolutely refuses to take a walk and steals bases more by decent speed and trying to steal bases a lot than actually being good at it.

Whether or not they’re top 100 prospects is largely irrelevant. The Cubs traded away half of their prospect depth and two of their best. There is a very real risk that they are back to having to do everything through free agency. Back to hoping to hell they don’t make a mistake in free agency or they’ll have to sit on their damn hands for years waiting those contracts out like they’re already doing because there’s no cushion waiting, cheap and controlled, on the farm.

And they did all of this… what? With a belief that they’re truly going to leapfrog the Reds, Cardinals AND Brewers to win the division with virtually their entire pitching staff a question mark and aging, under-performing players on massive contracts occupying most of their power positions? Or is it because Jim Hendry realized that another 75 win season costs him his job?

jwsox
4 years 7 months ago

if the brewers didnt add marcum and oh right that guy named greinke this would have beena great move that might have put the cubs back close to the top but the brewers did make bigger and better trades this move puts them closer to the brewers but not past. lets not forget the brewers offense was very good, i believe better than the cubs and they added one ACE and another #2 to their team to go along with yovanni and moving wolf to the bottom of the order. The reds won the central last season and didnt get any worse. and the cards are the cards untill albert moves away(if he does) they will always be the team to beat in the central

kdawg89
4 years 7 months ago

Archer was their #1 prospect and their minor league pitcher of the year….

Ferrariman
4 years 7 months ago

yes, Lee is a top 100. Archer might be depending on the list. Lee seems like a slam dunk top 100 and should be on just about every list.

jwsox
4 years 7 months ago

i was not talking about top 100 in baseball i was talking top rated guys in the cubs system…i believe it was 4 of the top 10 cubs farm hands

gulfcoastbiased
4 years 7 months ago

It was 3 of the top 10. Archer was #1, Lee was #4, and Guyer was #10. Guyer is a 25 year old OF playing in AA and Chiniros is 27 playing in AAA. The deal was centered around the development of Archer and Lee. Archer could end up being a frontline starter or closer and Lee could end being a poor man’s Jose Reyes.

kdawg89
4 years 7 months ago

A lot of the scouts are saying Guyer could be a late bloomer and last yr. was just the start of what he may be capable of. He could end up in LF in place of Crawford. He has speed, some power and is an excellent defender according to what I just read from Tampa’s scouting notes.

okbluejays
4 years 7 months ago

It says a lot that you’re saying they’re average prospects, yet they were ranked top 10 for the Cubs.

4 years 7 months ago

really? the cubs gave up their whole farm system and the rays scouting team is top notch. they wouldn’t have given him up for nothing!

crunchy1
4 years 7 months ago

Let’s not get too carried away. It’s not the whole farm system. The Cubs best “prospects” Castro and Cashner are already in the majors and they still have Jackson, Carpenter, McNutt, and Vitters. The Cubs did deal from some depth. They have Soto at catcher, they consider Jackson a much better prospect than Guyer in CF, they have Castro at SS, and they have many more good arms in the system, though Archer was likely their best arm outside of Cashner. But they’re getting a good young arm in return in Garza, so it isn’t devastating.

But there’s no doubt here. The Rays did well very well. They got more for Garza than the Brewers got for Greinke. Great, great trade for the Rays and only a so-so one for the Cubs.

4 years 7 months ago

Yes, but is Garza the best you could use that depth on? I think they could have gotten Adrian G for this haul.

4 years 7 months ago

Um, no.

4 years 7 months ago

The prospects might have made the Adrian Gonzalez deal work but the key point is A-Gon would only be guaranteed for 1 year then you still have to commit to a ~20 mil/season extension. We get salary controlled Garza through 2013 at least.

That said I don’t like this deal at all for the Cubs, I like Garza but it looks like we’re giving up way to much. Archer is our best pitching prospect, Lee is a good OBP SS with excellent Defense about 1-2 years from being ready. I think it would have made more sense to keep him and shift Castro to 2B. It would have given us two decent sticks and an incredible defense up the middle for about 5 years. Sam Fuld is a good defensive outfielder with great OBP (~.370 career in both minors and majors) with speed to get 15-20 SB/year. I think its a good time to sell high on Chirinos and Guyer but If this deal goes through as reported I’m not going to be happy with it as a Cubs fan

4 years 7 months ago

How did they get more for Garza than the Royals got for Greinke? It’s not directly comparable because it’s five for three, but the Cubs package in terms of prospect quality is no better, and the Royals got major leaguers as well.

crunchy1
4 years 7 months ago

I think Archer is much better than anyone the Royals got. And I’m just not sold on Escobar — even had doubts when he was being hyped. The Cubs prospects are all disciplined hitters, which tends to translate better when projecting future success. It’s just my opinion, but I can see an argument for the Royals doing better since Escobar and Cain have had some level of success in the majors already.

crunchy1
4 years 7 months ago

I wouldn’t go that far. It’s not the whole farm system. The Cubs best “prospects”, Castro and Cashner, have already been called up to the majors. They still have Carpenter, McNutt, Jay Jackson, Brett Jackson, Hayden Simpson, and Vitters. The Cubs dealt from some depth. Lee is a nice prospect but they already have Castro. The Cubs have Soto at catcher, so Chirinos was blocked — and they consider Brett Jackson a better CF prospect than Guyer. Archer looks like a future #2 starter and was probably our best young arm outside of Cashner, but Garza is a #2 starter now and hes only 27.

There’s no doubt here. The Rays did very, very well on this deal and the Cubs did so-so. They overpaid, but at least they paid from depth. There’s still a lot left on that farm.

basemonkey
4 years 7 months ago

The Cubs had to pay more than the Greinke trade because, even though Greinke is a more proven pitcher, Garza has yet to hit Free Agencyand Greinke was openly disgruntled and wanted out. So that translates into more talent being traded.

crunchy1
4 years 7 months ago

I definitely think that had a lot to do with it, basemonkey. The Rays had some leverage too in that Garza was easily the most talented pitcher left on the market and were in no hurry to trade him. My feeling is that the Cubs had to give in a little (With Archer probably being the one they had to concede). If Garza can become a consistent top of the rotation pitcher, than I think the Cubs will have done okay. But it’s scary when you have to give up that much talent. I think I’m going to root for the Rays and Orioles now in the East because they each have a few of my favorite ex-Cubs!!

basemonkey
4 years 7 months ago

Haha. Yeah.

niched
4 years 7 months ago

Also, I believe Greinke hits free agency in two years while Garza hits FA in three, so the Cubs get Garza for a year longer than the Brewers get Greinke.

crunchy1
4 years 7 months ago

I wouldn’t go that far. It’s not the whole farm system. The Cubs best “prospects”, Castro and Cashner, have already been called up to the majors. They still have Carpenter, McNutt, Jay Jackson, Brett Jackson, Hayden Simpson, and Vitters. The Cubs dealt from some depth. Lee is a nice prospect but they already have Castro. The Cubs have Soto at catcher, so Chirinos was blocked — and they consider Brett Jackson a better CF prospect than Guyer. Archer looks like a future #2 starter and was probably our best young arm outside of Cashner, but Garza is a #2 starter now and hes only 27.

There’s no doubt here. The Rays did very, very well on this deal and the Cubs did so-so. They overpaid, but at least they paid from depth. There’s still a lot left on that farm.

4 years 7 months ago

really? the cubs gave up their whole farm system and the rays scouting team is top notch. they wouldn’t have given him up for nothing!

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 7 months ago

i agree! Garza could easily win 20 next year in the NL! Why give up a young no.2 starter proven in the AL East without at least seeing how 2011 unfolds? Terrible move by the Rays and their fans cant blame ownership since they failed to support a winner for the last 3 years! Thus the need to shed salary.

AthleticsFan
4 years 7 months ago

Garza win 20!! That’s absurd over my dead body.

4 years 7 months ago

He won 15 this year in the AL East. It’s not likely, but it is possible.

4 years 7 months ago

He won 15 with one of the best teams in the AL. Now he is with probably the 4th best team in the NL Central

Lunchbox45
4 years 7 months ago

Yes, but that team didn’t have a particularly good offense, in fact probably the 4th best in that division. Not that the cubs have a great offense, but you can’t say his 15 wins last year weren’t hard fought

4 years 7 months ago

At the begininng of the year the rays could have closed their eyes and swung and the ball was going out of the park. They also had a fantastic defense that would inflate Garza’s numbers a bit. I just don’t see him getting 15 wins with the cubs this year, maybe 12-14

Ferrariman
4 years 7 months ago

at least the rays had stellar defense all year round. Can you say that about the cubs?

FrankTheFunkasaurusRex
4 years 7 months ago

the Rays as a whole had a bad batting line, but they still scored 3rd most runs in mlb

4 years 7 months ago

I agree – going from the AL to the NL should, at a minimum, decrease his ERA by half a run, and he won’t be pitching against the Yankees or Red Sox. The NL central made Carlos Silva look like a #1 starter. Garza’s performance will hinge on handling Chicago fans and media – he has had attitude problems before, and after seeing Zambrano break down in ’10 and the Milton Bradley debacle, bringing Garza to Chicago is a risk. I hope it works out.

basemonkey
4 years 7 months ago

I don’t see why not? He pitches enough innings at a quality pace to do so. He’s a future #1.

kdawg89
4 years 7 months ago

It could happen.. If he doesn’t it won’t be because HE isn’t capable, it will be because of the teams he plays for.

PennMariner
4 years 7 months ago

They’re clearly in a rebuilding mode of sorts. Why hang on to him with that logjam of young, talented starting pitchers when you can just get Jim Hendry to hand over his entire farm?

4 years 7 months ago

As a Rays fan I’m happy but also sad, We love Garza but we’ve accepted the fact that it isn’t impossible to compete but very hard. We still have a nice core of players but we are stacking the prospects and stacking draft picks. When will the Rays seriously compete again? Maybe in a few years? We’ll see. We’ll miss you Garza.

But also, we are happy we get to see Hellickson in a full role this year..

Rays rotation: Price, Shield, Niemann, Davis, Hellickson. Again thank you Matt Garza!!

4 years 7 months ago

Both teams won this trade, it works well for both sides. Like Marcum for Lawrie.

4 years 7 months ago

I think the Cubs gave up to much for him, but I give them credit for making a run at it this year.

venom4789
4 years 7 months ago

i hope your not talking about making a run at a world series, this team still isnt even a playoff team.

Wrek305
4 years 7 months ago

the only run they will make is to catch the Pirates for 6th place.. i am hoping for that it will be the only way Hendry gets fired

BlueCatuli
4 years 7 months ago

His year? He is under team control for another three years and the Cubs should be able to retain him when he hits free agency. That is assuming he is worth retaining.

gunsnascar
4 years 7 months ago

I reserve judgement untill I see who the minor leaguers are that show up with garza.

4 years 7 months ago

agreed, with those guys the cubs are giving up there has to be something else coming with garza

JTT11
4 years 7 months ago

Guys – you got your big present – its Garza. The minor leaguers are not going to be prospects or likely to ever sniff the majors. they will only be depth to your AA and AAA teams. More than likely you are going to get 1 player whos minor league depth and the other will be some Low A coach’s project that was given up on. Its not something to get excited about. Fillers. low minor league versions of Scot olsen and troy glaus.

JTT11
4 years 7 months ago

Guys – you got your big present – its Garza. The minor leaguers are not going to be prospects or likely to ever sniff the majors. they will only be depth to your AA and AAA teams. More than likely you are going to get 1 player whos minor league depth and the other will be some Low A coach’s project that was given up on. Its not something to get excited about. Fillers. low minor league versions of Scot olsen and troy glaus.

kdawg89
4 years 7 months ago

One of them is OF Fernando Perez. He’s 27. Good defender with excellent speed but had major shoulder surgery and not sure he’ll ever be same. Used to be decent hitter..now, not so much.

4 years 7 months ago

Wow. Good for both teams. Moreso for the Rays because of the caliber and number of prospects, and good more for the Cub fanbase. I think Garza will do well for the scrubbies and maybe be the jolt that the team needs.(that, and ARam and Soto to get it together) The Rays farm is just scary at this point, hopefully they pan out in the coming years

4 years 7 months ago

i think Soto “got it together” last year, leading all catchers in OPS and all, but agree this trade is good for both teams as long as Garza moving from the AL East works out as it has for many before him.

BlueCatuli
4 years 7 months ago

Soto did get it together last year.

crunchy1
4 years 7 months ago

Too much given up by the Cubs. Archer and Lee alone makes this a steal for the Rays. Chirinos and Guyer are two nice under the radar prospects on top of that. At least I don’t have to hear Cubs fans ranting about how the Cubs should start Sam Fuld all the time.

penpaper
4 years 7 months ago

Depends on who else the Cubs get. Right now, its one sided to the Rays.

JTT11
4 years 7 months ago

Well cubs got perez….Thats a win for the rays. addition by subtraction. Perez was a bust in 06.

4 years 7 months ago

the rays just got some good players, archer, lee, and guyer. but garza is going to help the cubs now as archer would be a year or two away from the majors. lee is blocked by castro, and guyer would still be a couple years away. fuld and chirinos are in their older twentys and they wouldnt have spots on the opening day roster anyways

monkeyspanked
4 years 7 months ago

That’s a good deal all around I think. And Garza is gonna be monster in the NL.

BlueCatuli
4 years 7 months ago

If he put up those numbers in the AL East, imagine what he can do in the NL Central.

4 years 7 months ago

I feel like this is dumb for the Cubs. They aren’t going to win a world series anytime soon, and their team still has some very old parts. So they take a big chunk out of their system for one player? Rays win this trade.

grownice
4 years 7 months ago

you realize its a 5 for 3 swap right….

4 years 7 months ago

I realize it’s a 5 for 3 swap, but until we know the other parts, I’m assuming they are middle tier players that most likely will only make a small impact at the majors level.

grownice
4 years 7 months ago

well theres 2 middle tier prospects that the cubs gave up also, ya know.

JTT11
4 years 7 months ago

Yes. and they were actually named at the time of the trade. Perez was selected lated. Sorry cubbies.

William S
4 years 7 months ago

As a Cubs fan its hard not to get excited about this trade. But from a purely objective stand point it seems like it may have been a bit expensive and a bit premature. Hopefully the minor parts coming back are interesting and surely better fits.

4 years 7 months ago

Leave it to the Cubs to do a 5 for 1 swap. I hate this trade because it makes TB’s farm that much better getting 3 of the Cubs top 10 prospects. This is a great trade for TB but a bad one for the Cubs because they are not going to win now with Garza their team has way to many holes and with the resurgence of the Reds it will be tough to even get wild card. Gutting the farm is not the answer, it reminds me of the Yankees under George.

4 years 7 months ago

Nevermind I didnt realize it was a 3-5 swap, the last sentence was worded confusingly.

William S
4 years 7 months ago

Per espn

“Tampa for Garza, a minor league pitcher and minor-league outfielder Fernando Perez.”

BaseballRulez252525
4 years 7 months ago

Considering the Cubs got this Archer guy for DeRosa(WTF were the Indians thinking?). For them to turn him into a proven stud pitcher in Garza who is only 27. And you know they will re-sign him. I will say both teams got what they wanted.

dbreer23
4 years 7 months ago

At the time of the trade, Archer was barely a ‘C’ prospect. He made some real strides once coming over to the Cubs’ system, including a substantial increase in velocity (likely tinkering in mechanics). I remember the Cubs were panned for making this trade, the general thinking that they gave up DeRosa for nothing to save a few bucks.

4 years 7 months ago

“a substantial increase in velocity”

So Tommy John is in Archer’s future then?

dbreer23
4 years 7 months ago

I understand the risk when jumping more than 1-2 mph in a single season and the immediate stresses on the arm/shoulder, so yes, it is entirely possible. I’d say with the way the Rays system handles their pitching prospects, that really minimizes that sort of injury – they are VERY methodical when developing pitchers.

BlueCatuli
4 years 7 months ago

He was a big maybe when he was with the Indians.

mister_rob
4 years 7 months ago

Lately I’ve been reading that Archer may project better as a closer. Cubs have a great young closer already
Lee might be a good young SS. Cubs already have one of those already.
Guys like Guyer are a dime a dozen. Fuld is worthless
As far as Garza, take note of all the established starters the last 10 years who have gone from the ALE to the NLC. EVERY SINGLE one of them saw a huge bump in their numbers from the previous season. Clemens, Pettite, Arroyo, Lilly, etc

Realistically Garza’s 3.90era and 1.250 whip in the ALEast probably translates to 3.20era and a 1.170 whip at worst in the NLC. The competetition just isnt nearly the same. look at the CArds (one of the better nlc teams). Sure they have Pujols, Holliday, and Rasmus. And maybe Berkman bounces back. But the other 4 guys dont scare any pitcher and you have the pitcher on top of that. 5 worthless hitters in one lineup

firealyellon
4 years 7 months ago

How does it translate for a flyball pitcher in one of the top 3 most hitter friendly parks in the game?

vtadave
4 years 7 months ago

Cubs will reportedly get Desmond Jennings and Matt Moore in the deal.

Ok, kidding obviously, as I can’t imagine the other 2 players will be anyone of consequence.

Nice deal for both sides. I think Archer could be a future closer and Lee will battle Brignac come 2012.

4 years 7 months ago

I’m thinking that he’d replace brignac once he starts to become expensive, but the ray’s have to be sure he’s ready before the insert him into the regular lineup and flip brignac

Wrek305
4 years 7 months ago

Garza and two minor league players who will never make it to the ML Level.. It sucks seeing Sam Fuld go but he never really had a chance of playing.. good hearted kid..hope he does well he will be a starter for the Rays by the end of the year if not sooner..
The trade honestly doesn’t make sense too bad Garza couldn’t veto a trade to chicago and a 5th place team

Ben_Cherington
4 years 7 months ago

Im not a cubs fan by no means, however they have a chance. The rotation become extremely better today. IF Z can put together a good year, and IF silva can do what he did again, and IF soriano can hit the ball, and IF pena doesnt k 200 times, and IF ramirez plays better than last year, they could be a good ball team.

I know there are a lot of IFs here but so are there on every other team in the NL Central.

Im just saying theres a chance they could sniff the playoffs

Wrek305
4 years 7 months ago

Ramirez Washed up.. Z too myuch of a headcase to do good. Silva fluke starting 8-0 and then finishing like 12-10 or something.. Soriano needs to be a PH at best he should not start over Colvin ever

The Cubs have a very good chance at 6th place

Ben_Cherington
4 years 7 months ago

Oh I agree, they could end up in the basement! I was just saying if a lot of their guys perform up to expectations of the contracts handed to them then they could very well content next year.

Wrek305
4 years 7 months ago

none of their big contract guys have stepped up yet.. Lilly was their best signing and he was their best pitcher the last 3 and half yrs.. they might get 12 wins from Z and Silva Wells will bounce back, Garza will lead the team with 14-15 wins and will have equal amount of losses and also Z will have more loses then wins again this year. I hope they at least make Garza the opening day starter Z is 0-4 the last 4 yrs

Ben_Cherington
4 years 7 months ago

Oh I agree, they could end up in the basement! I was just saying if a lot of their guys perform up to expectations of the contracts handed to them then they could very well content next year.

hardcoreforhardcore
4 years 7 months ago

Uh, right. About that…

gunsnascar
4 years 7 months ago

Dude step away from the crack pipe.

4 years 7 months ago

The Cubs certainly don’t look like a good team this year but to say they’re going to finish worse than THE PIRATES is just ridiculous. The Pirates are improving but they’re at least another 2 years before they see a 500 year. I see the Cubs fighting with Astros for the 4th spot in the division but it wouldn’t surprise me if the Brewers get off to a slow start they may decide to sell Fielder at the deadline then they could drop out of the top tier of the division as well.