10:48am: Derrick Goold of The St. Louis Post-Dispatch has some more from Mozeliak…
"We haven't played a game yet, that throws a wrench into a little bit," said the GM. "Internally we don't want to have a knee-jerk response to this. We certainly feel we have some players in camp that can fill this role."
10:14am: Now that Adam Wainwright will officially be out for the entire 2011 season, the Cardinals need to begin thinking about potential replacements. GM John Mozeliak told Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports that the team will not look outside the organization for help initially, but they "have to be open-minded." (Twitter link)
The Cardinals won't find a pitcher of Wainwright's caliber on the market, but there are plenty of options that could give them innings. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch broke down the internal candidates today, and I took a look at external candidates yesterday.
Heads up superfans: Pujols vetoes trades, Rasmus won’t be traded.
Think he’ll just be out for 2011, or will he also miss part of 2012?
Usually many of pitchers that had Tommy John surgery take about a year and a half. Probably July 2012, but that is only what I expect.
Depends on the pitcher, really. Expected time is anywhere from 12-18 months, some have TJ and are back in a year with no ill effects, some take years to fully recover everything they had (see: Francisco Liriano)
See Chris Carpenter, Mark Prior, Kerry Wood
Did Mark Prior have TJ? I thought it was mainly is shoulder that was the issue. I might be wrong about that.
the problem with Prior and Wood were their shoulders, not their elbows.
lol that was coming from a cubs fan too. impressive
Wood had tommy john. Don’t know about Prior.
Like they said it depends. Also, it seems like pitchers aren’t that good the first year out of the surgery.
Wonder if they would be interested in Andy Sonnanstine and would move him for Fernando Salas or are ready to give up on Alan Craig yet for him? Reliable starter making minimum money. Duncan can work with anyone, no?
Good question. To me moving Salas or Craig for Sonnanstine would be the definition of the aforementioned “knee-jerk” response. On paper the deal isn’t bad at all. But the STL FO and GM really like both Salas and Craig. Both have developed really well. Personally, if they deal, I’d prefer they move a vet rather than a prospect. The farm system is just now being restocked from the depletion of a few years ago. I’d like to see them continue to build from within.
Millwood. Ain’t sexy, but it’ll work.
millwood has no upside whatsoever. he “works” in the sense that he’ll fill the spot, but turning your ace into a fifth starter is not an attractive option
Well good luck finding that ace then. You obviously can be very picky at this point.
yeah, that’s a reasonable response. the point is that you want someone with upside, which millwood doesn’t have
Maybe you want “upside,” maybe not. If the pitcher with upside has too many starts where he gets yanked by the 5th inning, the Cards would be better off with Millwood (150-200IP/season) consistently pitching 6 innings and giving up 3 or 4 runs.
At least Millwood gives your bullpen a fighting chance, whereas a youngster such as Ottavino with potential, or a veteran such as Snell who may catch lightning in a bottle again but probably won’t, may wreck your bullpen and thereby cost the team games even when the “upside” guy isn’t starting.
i have no idea why you think the cardinals would have a fighting chance if adam wainwright pitched 150 innings of 4.50 FIP ball. they would not. they won 76 games with a cy young caliber performance from him a year ago
likewise, 150-200 innings of millwood ball (4.80 FIP) from wainwright’s spot (230 IP 3.0 FIP) in the rotation almost certainly does not give the cardinals a fighting chance. it’s one step up from mailing it in
a starter with upside just won’t be that much worse than millwood when he fails and could potentially give the cardinals a fighting chance if he performs well
They won 76 games with a Cy Young caliber performance from Waino a year ago… and mediocre starts every fifth day from Jeff Suppan or Blake Hawksworth, and at-bats from Aaron Miles, Randy Winn and, at the end of the year, Pedro Feliz.
Obviously Millwood does not replace Waino. But, if the offense is as improved as Mozeliak claims it is, and they have Westbrook for a full year, then Wainwright would not have had to pitch as well this year as he did last year for them to contend.
Admittedly, this is partially wishful thinking, I am well aware the rest of the division is better this year as well. The critical question isn’t what shmuck they use in the rotation instead of Waino, it’s whether the offense brings it – more specifically, does Rasmus show some consistency, can Theriot slap his way on base, and does Berkman have gas left in the tank.
well yeah but they haven’t upgraded last year’s 5th starter slot; they’ve just turned the #1 slot into another #5. and that’s a really big deal. with a bullpen that isn’t anything special, this rotation is going to win more games than the brewers?
carpenter
garcia
westbrook
lohse
millwood
???
i have no problem with the cardinals, so this isn’t hate i’m dishing out. i just have no idea how they can consider millwood as a solution. the offense would have to be significantly improved to compensate for 200 innings worth of sub-3 FIP pitching turning into ~5 FIP pitching
they were 14th in baseball last year in runs scored. how much better will they be this year? this lineup is going to save them?
Ryan Theriot
Lance Berkman
Albert Pujols
Matt Holliday
Colby Rasmus
David Freese
Yadier Molina
Skip Schumaker
???
Bonderman would be better than Millwood. Let Dave Duncan get hold of Bonderman and he could be pretty good in the NL.
Dave Duncan adds upside to any washed up pitcher over the age of 30
Liriano, by the way, might be available at some point. Only signed for a year before free agency, so you could rent him. He be steep permanently. There will be other very good ones available, maybe not Wainright’s equal, but better than any arms Cards have gotten for help in recent memory. Cards should not have to settle for dregs…
Liriano will only be available if the Twins are way out of it, and that isn’t likely to happen. Rob Antony shot those rumors down yesterday.
Perhaps so, but that’s just an example. There will be some good starters available soon enough, might cost a lot, might cost Miller, might be else wise doable. My point is there are and will be very good arms out there, gotta go for it…
Are you reading this article Markey “Mark” Buehrle?
If the mighty Derek Jeter….I mean Albert Pujols is going to bolt after this season – which he probably will – The Cardinals should be going for it trying to get everything and anything they can.
Wade Boggs throws a mean knuckleball.
Wonder what the Cards would be willing to part with to the Rangers for Scott Feldman?
Just off the top of my head, but how about Rasmus for Tim Hudson? He gets 9 mill this year and next, Jon Jay slides into center.
ha
What other proposals for Rasmus can you come up with that make no sense for the Cardinals?
I won’t say the Cardinals have to react quickly and foolishly, but they need to do something. It may have to be something really creative, but they have to show Pujols that they are a viable contender or he’s walking.
One player going down(even if it’s your ace pitcher) should not make you completely fall out of contention. But we see that it has. So when you go to replace that player, you deal from your strengths to fill your weaknesses. CF is where the Cardinals have a viable(even though I hate him) replacement. And it fills a position of need for the Braves while taking on one of their positions of depth. Make sense now?
Time for the Giants to polish that turd, Barry Zito, and give the Cardinals a call.
For Ryan Theriot straight up! Garbage for garbage.
Only a Cubs fan will say that. It be funny if Theriot bat only .250 this year, but bat .400 against the Cubs.
I was thinking the same thing. A turd is about all we can get for him
I think They are going to go with McClellan. He is on the starters program and at this point who knows Duncan could once again catch lightning in a bottle
Buerhle, Dayan Viciedo, Gordon Beckham for Colby Rasmus, Kyle Lohse, and David Freese. Cardinals get 2 young promising power-hitting IFs, a veteran lefty Missouri native who wants to play in St. Louis, rid of Rasmus who doesn’t want to play for LaRussa, and rid of Lohse 12MM due next season that they can put toward resigning Pujols. Cardinals can definitely still contend with a rotation of Carp, Garcia, Buerhle, Westbrook, and McClellan and assuming Beckham and Viciedo fill the offensive production of Rasmus in the IF and Jon Jay plays better than Rasmus defensively in CF, all very possible. Also as a last case scenario, if Pujols leaves after next season, they can try Viciedo at first.
White Sox get one of the most promising young OF’s in the game under team control for the next 3 years, .300 hitting and great defensive 3b young player under team control for 4 years, . They also get a possible contributing pitcher making a little less than Buerhle annually, but for an additional season. White Sox can flip Quentin for an IF or starting/relief pitcher if needed. And White Sox avoid a media blitz of letting Buerhle walk after next season by dealing him to a team “he’s always wanted to play for”. Sounds like a win-win for everybody no?