NL Central Notes: Votto, Cardinals, Carpenter

Let's take a look at a few items out of the National League Central…

  • Rival executives are getting signals that the Reds won't shop Joey Votto, but the club is fully prepared to listen to offers this winter, tweets Buster Olney of ESPN.com.
  • We could see some changes to the Cardinals' coaching staff, writes Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.  The Athletics have expressed interest in assistant hitting coach Mike Aldrete and he is believed the leading candidate for the position.  Meanwhile, pitching coach Dave Duncan may choose to step away from baseball as his wife is suffering from a brain malignancy.
  • Before the Cardinals inked a two-year extension with Chris Carpenter in September, they internally discussed whether the veteran's stuff had regressed, according to Buster Olney of ESPN.com.  Ultimately, they decided that even though his surface-level stats had taken a dip, Carpenter was still capable of throwing well.
  • Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus (via Twitter) expects the Cubs to name their next GM before the start of the World Series.


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58 Comments on "NL Central Notes: Votto, Cardinals, Carpenter"


dansaint
3 years 10 months ago

If Dave Duncan does decide to step away…Cards have a pretty nice option at Double A….El Presidente-Dennis Martinez. He’s been doing great things with the young pitchers (Miller, Martinez, Swagerty, Kelly)

EdinsonPickle
3 years 10 months ago

I hope Dave’s wife is alright. It’d be an awful shame to see him walk away, but he’s got to do what’s best for his family.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 10 months ago

Anyone else think the Blue Jays might try to make a serious run at Votto?

Kendall Adkins
3 years 10 months ago

The Blue Jays are a long way from being competitive, so I don’t see them spending that kind of money. They aren’t terrible, but .500 ball in the AL East just isn’t going to cut it. 

BVHjays
3 years 10 months ago

Well, it’s not the money that’s the issue I don’t think, it would be the price in terms of prospects/players if anything. Votto’s deal over the next two years is very reasonable for that kind of talent.

BVHjays
3 years 10 months ago

Well, it’s not the money that’s the issue I don’t think, it would be the price in terms of prospects/players if anything. Votto’s deal over the next two years is very reasonable for that kind of talent.

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

the 6th best offense in baseball with down years from several bats is not that far off. they need pitching, though, and votto won’t solve that problem

3 years 10 months ago

Nope, doesn’t solve it.  But I don’t see why he wouldn’t help mitigate it.  Better offense can shield a weaker staff (see 2000s New York Yankees).  And the Jays absolutely have the depth to make a big offer

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

unless he can get a third team involved and find a way to keep the price down, doesn’t sound like anthopolous to spend prospects for 2 years of a not-cheap 1B when his team hits well but can’t pitch

doing so would force them to either deplete the system with subsequent trades for pitching, pay through the nose in free agency for pitching, or waste a year of votto & bautista prime out of contention. it’s possible, but none of these seem very New Jays to me

stl_cards16
3 years 10 months ago

To me the thing is, if the Jays really feel like they are a stud 1st baseman away from contending, why not sign Prince Fielder?  He doesn’t cost any prospects and Votto will be just as expensive two years from now.

3 years 10 months ago

Because Votto actually offers defensive value and is much more likely to age well

BVHjays
3 years 10 months ago

The Jays/Anthopoulos seem to hate the idea of signing big-money free agents. It seems like they’re last resort.

xthetouristx
3 years 10 months ago

I don’t understand why.  Pujols on the Jays would be a murderer.  It’s not as though the Jays can’t up their payroll.  Pujols and Wilson.  Make it happen AA!  I’m not even a Jays fan, but I’d love to see someone cut the heads of that 2-headed dragon in the east!

3 years 10 months ago

The Blue Jays are not cutting the head off of anything….. might finish dead last next season. Orioles might get them. 

xthetouristx
3 years 10 months ago

Yeah… uh… right.

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

unless he can get a third team involved and find a way to keep the price down, doesn’t sound like anthopolous to spend prospects for 2 years of a not-cheap 1B when his team hits well but can’t pitch

doing so would force them to either deplete the system with subsequent trades for pitching, pay through the nose in free agency for pitching, or waste a year of votto & bautista prime out of contention. it’s possible, but none of these seem very New Jays to me

3 years 10 months ago

Nope, doesn’t solve it.  But I don’t see why he wouldn’t help mitigate it.  Better offense can shield a weaker staff (see 2000s New York Yankees).  And the Jays absolutely have the depth to make a big offer

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

the 6th best offense in baseball with down years from several bats is not that far off. they need pitching, though, and votto won’t solve that problem

3 years 10 months ago

AL East are sitting in front of the TV as we speak….. Lot of high payrolls in the East & that is it.  Does not make them great. Just over rated.

BVHjays
3 years 10 months ago

Take a run, for sure (and I don’t just say that because of my username!) – there have even been a few media reports of the Jays preparing to take a big shot at acquiring him. That said, there’s going to be a lot of teams doing so, and the Reds are obviously and rightfully going to have a high, high price, so I’m trying not to get too excited about the possibility.

Gunner65
3 years 10 months ago

I have to agree. The Jays would be the “home coming” story that the local media and fans would love … but the reality is that the Reds, in the really off chance they decide to seriously consider moving him, would be selling to the highest bidder and a young, potential #1-2 starting prospect would have to be the first part of that deal.

3 years 10 months ago

Well, I’d say the Jays have some of those.  Alvarez or Drabek have to make that cut in the NL, don’t they?  And if not, a deal with one of them and one of Hutchison, Nicolino, Syndergaard or Molina plus whatever other pieces (Hech, Marisnick, etc.) could be reasonable. Not to mention Thames could help fill that constantly empty LF slot in Cincy.

Gunner65
3 years 10 months ago

Yes they do … but like notsureifsrs said, offense isn’t really the Jays problem … pitching is … so i figure they would be reluctant to give up the pitching prospects they have to improve an already good offense

Andy Mc
3 years 10 months ago

Henderson Alvarez + Jake Marisnick + Drew Hutchison = Joey Votto?

3 years 10 months ago

Keep dreaming. The reds have no reason to move Votto, and if they did, it would have to be for a king’s ransom. They will be looking for no less than 2 controllable studs at premium positions. For Toronto, the opening bid would have to be something along the lines of Drabek, Rasmus, B prospect in upper minors, and an A prospect in the lower minors. Otherwise, why move an MVP?

Andy Mc
3 years 10 months ago

Marisnick and Hutchison will both be A prospects. Alvarez has Ace stuff and is a B+ at least. I’d even add Drabek to the mix. That would be a king’s ransom. 

3 years 10 months ago

I know nothing about the Jays system. In a quick search, I see Alvarez as the #10 prospect in his league, that certainly doesn’t equate to B+ prospect status. While a 3.18 ERA across 2 leagues is respectable nothing is off the charts…especially a 6.5 k/9. Hutchison seems to have some good numbers. I would be surprised if he were an A prospect, but high B/B+ appears reasonable, certainly a good name to throw around. Marisnick…he had better cover two outfield spots at once to be an A prospect. Although an .888 OPS is solid, that was his second time in the league where he was sub .700 the year before. I would be shocked if that drew ratings of above C. 

Of those three guys, Hutchison sounds interesting, throw him in with Drabek and Rasmus with a B/B+ prospect in the upper minors and you might get Walt to stay on the line. Please provide a reasonable (non-biased) argument to attempt to salvage your rating claims

Andy Mc
3 years 10 months ago

Look deeper. Weird thing is, Marisnick may be the highest rated of the three. I guess we’ll have to wait until Keith Law and others’ rankings come out. But I’ll eat my shirt if Marisnick isn’t widely regarded as a B+ or better. True 5 tool talent, .888 OPS CF with 37 SB. I would bet AA wants to hold onto him anyway.

Gunner65
3 years 10 months ago

I have to agree. The Jays would be the “home coming” story that the local media and fans would love … but the reality is that the Reds, in the really off chance they decide to seriously consider moving him, would be selling to the highest bidder and a young, potential #1-2 starting prospect would have to be the first part of that deal.

camisadelgolf
3 years 10 months ago

The Reds could use a middle-of-the-lineup hitter who could play third base and/or outfield.  Do the Blue Jays have anyone under contract who could do that?

camisadelgolf
3 years 10 months ago

The Reds could use a middle-of-the-lineup hitter who could play third base and/or outfield.  Do the Blue Jays have anyone under contract who could do that?

dansaint
3 years 10 months ago

tell me your joking? If his wife is in that bad shape….I don’t need him with his mind elsewhere. Let him take care of his wife…and focus his time on her getting better.

3 years 10 months ago

The only way Votto gets moved is if someone says here have our farm system.  Here’s our best starting pitcher and our best outfielder and our best shortstop prospects. 

Johnny
3 years 10 months ago

Jay.. I’m sorry but you are wrong there.  I love Joey as our 1st baseman and will be highly upset if he is moved.. but a rumor circled the city of Cincinnati shortly after the July 31st Trade Deadline that there was talk of the Jays acquiring Joey Votto & Daniel Corcino for Jose Bautista.  I think the Reds believe Yonder Alonso is a player who is stuck at 1st base and feel stuck with the two of them.  This allows the Reds to replace one Superstar with another and place a solid prospect in Votto’s place.  I think Bautista and Alonso provides more offense then Votto.  The Reds also have to conjure up a solution for the surplus of young arms that they have.  If the season would start now the rotation would be:

Johnny Cueto
Mike Leake
Aroldis Chapman
Edison Volquez
Bronson Arroyo
Homer Bailey
Travis Wood

That’s a lot; plus the surplus of ready major league prospects with positions filled like 3rd baseman Juan Francisco, 2nd/3rd/LFer Todd Frazier, & OFer Chris Heisey & Dave Sappelt.  Walt is going to be wheeling and dealing this winter and he has a lot of needs to fill.  He has stated to the Reds beat writers that they are looking for a top of the rotation guy and a middle of the line-up hitter.  This team saw a rise in ticket sales so a payroll boost wouldn’t surprise me especially after winning the division in ’10 and not finishing above .500 in ’11.

Jose_Bautista
3 years 10 months ago

At 15 MM for 6 years, forget about getting me!

3 years 10 months ago

With how tight lipped Jocketty is who knows what is going to happen. Heck even the players have admitted that they have no clue what the front office plans on doing this winter.  I am hoping to Fill LF and a top notch starter.  I don’t mind if they keep Cordero if its at a reduced price and hoping Phillips wont cost an arm and leg to the team. I know he wants to be paid fairly but who knows what that is going to cost and I think they should pay him pretty well consider how good he is for a 2B. Not much out there replaces him in my book.

As for the Rotation I see it shaping out like this. This is based on if we dont get a new top not starter.

Cueto
Leake
Bailey
Arroyo
Chapman ( I put him here cause this will allow him to keep his innings down)

Wood will be in the bullpen probably or at AAA ready if someone stinks. and Volquez if he is still with the team will become a reliever or get the boot.

I think the next two years are key for the Reds if they want to try and win the division again.  I Think Alonso and one of our stud catchers is going to have to go Mesoroco was ok though he did fairly well calling games and defensively. He didn’t hit too well during his cup of tea in September.  That does not mean I don’t think he wont hit at the major league level. I am simply basing on what I saw so far. The Reds better have some kinda deal in place for him to reject arbitration cause if he is around next year that really backs us up at Catcher.

Personally I like Stubbs but I think he is going to split time with Heisey next year again unless we pick up some leadoff hitter that plays center.  If that happens Stubbs could see time in LF with Heisey if that hole has not been filled either.  

Like I said this team has a lot of tough decisions to make this winter and each decision has a big impact on what will happen for the rest of the team.

Here is hoping for the best Cashtellini open your wallet and give Cincy back some magic. Oh almost forgot the attendance boost this year will only equate to about 5 million more money and most of that will probably go to arbitration raises.  The owner is going to have to put his money where his mouth has been. 

If the Reds do nothing this winter there are going to be a lot of empty seats next season unless that magic and luck we had last year somehow comes back. Not going to count on that.

Johnny
3 years 10 months ago

Jay.. I’m sorry but you are wrong there.  I love Joey as our 1st baseman and will be highly upset if he is moved.. but a rumor circled the city of Cincinnati shortly after the July 31st Trade Deadline that there was talk of the Jays acquiring Joey Votto & Daniel Corcino for Jose Bautista.  I think the Reds believe Yonder Alonso is a player who is stuck at 1st base and feel stuck with the two of them.  This allows the Reds to replace one Superstar with another and place a solid prospect in Votto’s place.  I think Bautista and Alonso provides more offense then Votto.  The Reds also have to conjure up a solution for the surplus of young arms that they have.  If the season would start now the rotation would be:

Johnny Cueto
Mike Leake
Aroldis Chapman
Edison Volquez
Bronson Arroyo
Homer Bailey
Travis Wood

That’s a lot; plus the surplus of ready major league prospects with positions filled like 3rd baseman Juan Francisco, 2nd/3rd/LFer Todd Frazier, & OFer Chris Heisey & Dave Sappelt.  Walt is going to be wheeling and dealing this winter and he has a lot of needs to fill.  He has stated to the Reds beat writers that they are looking for a top of the rotation guy and a middle of the line-up hitter.  This team saw a rise in ticket sales so a payroll boost wouldn’t surprise me especially after winning the division in ’10 and not finishing above .500 in ’11.

Jose_Bautista
3 years 10 months ago

Did that happen when they traded away Roy Halladay? Adrian Gonzalez? Miguel Cabrera?

Point is, Votto is getting expensive, moving him might bring them some good prospects but giving away the entire farm system is a bit farfetched.

2 top 10 prospects and 2 #10-30 prospects should do it. 

I would go as far as giving away McGuire/Drabek + Cecil + Thames/Snider + Hechavaria. Anything more would be an overpay imo.

Andy Mc
3 years 10 months ago

Henderson Alvarez + Jake Marisnick + Drew Hutchison = Joey Votto?

BVHjays
3 years 10 months ago

That is one hell of an offer. Two guys looking to be #2 starters (with Alvarez having the potential for more) in the near future, and a five-tooler in Marisnick.

Ferrariman
3 years 10 months ago

absolutely not.  epic lowball.

Tools_of_Ignorance
3 years 10 months ago

Epic fail. It’s natural to overvalue your own players.

Ferrariman
3 years 10 months ago

my own players?  I’m not a reds fan.  at all.  actually, i hate the reds. don’t  talk out of your  hind quaters bro.

Andy Mc
3 years 10 months ago

You obviously know nothing about those three prospects.

Gunner65
3 years 10 months ago

We’ll give you Votto & Phillips … and take Lawrie, Alverez & Marisnick … that will give us the payroll flexibility we need :)

3 years 10 months ago

The difference in these situations is that the Reds have a chance to win in 2012. They have holes and need a big trade, but giving away an MVP isn’t a move to fill that hole unless it brings in guys who can offer the same impact. Although Alonso may be hyped as a prospect, there is a huge drop in value from Votto to Alonso. For the blue jays, they weren’t going to the playoffs, so moving Halladay brought in future blood that offered greater value than the picks when he left. For San Diego, who knows. they obviously knew something about their team in 2011 that they were not in win now mode. I have no idea. For the Marlins, it is tough to maintain a guy like Cabrera on a $30-40 Million payroll.

The Reds have the chance to make the playoffs in 2012 and 2013 with a couple pieces, so they won’t move Votto unless they believe it not only helps the current team by bringing in an impact bat or arm at a position of need, but also someone who is cost controlled that can push that window beyond 2013.

If someone calls about prospects who have never seen the majors, unless it is the nationals waving around Harper, the Reds have no reason to even listen.

3 years 10 months ago

The only way Votto gets moved is if someone says here have our farm system.  Here’s our best starting pitcher and our best outfielder and our best shortstop prospects. 

stl_cards16
3 years 10 months ago

Watching Carpenter all year, he is starting to lose a little bit, but he can still be a good #2 over the course of the season.  That said, after watching him last Wednesday and last night, he is still on a very short list of guys you want on the mound in a must win game.

dansaint
3 years 10 months ago

Cards could have a very nice 1,2,3 next year with Waino coming back…Carp as the 2 and Jaime as the 3. Lohse is a nice 4 and Westbrook is a decent 5. Rotation looks solid again.

gunsnascar
3 years 10 months ago

very solid and if the can resign pooholes they will be a better team than this year

DrHMD
3 years 10 months ago

Keep the Duncan family in your prayers

John
3 years 10 months ago

What team do you recommend I “convert” to?

Scott Layne
3 years 10 months ago

I honestly don’t care.

gunsnascar
3 years 10 months ago

chicago cubs ……………………………….lol

3 years 10 months ago

Blur Jays are a below average team. Always have been & always will be. And the fan base is clueless. Just saying……

Ferrariman
3 years 10 months ago

that excuse doesn’t fly anymore.  Rays can do it with an even smaller payroll/market than toronto, so why can’t they?

3 years 10 months ago

If its so tough… How come you are whole division is watching the playoffs. No… you think the East is the best. The rest of the country disagrees.

3 years 10 months ago

 They are a big city with an average baseball team that likes to make tons of excuses……… Its really pathetic.