NL East Links: Wright, Phillies, Braves

The Nationals are close to bringing back Chien-Ming Wang. Let's now round up some other links from the NL East…

  • “[Mets GM Sandy Alderson] would have to totally be bowled over [to trade David Wright this offseason],” a source told Andy Martino if The New York Daily News. Martino also hears that Wright's representatives have not reached out to the team about a contract extension.
  • ESPN New York's Adam Rubin wonders why the Mets would consider trading Wright this summer rather than wait until 2013 (Twitter links). Wright can opt out of his contract after next season if traded, and keeping him until the following year gives the team another season of their homegrown star while still dealing only a half-season of him.
  • The Phillies believe they need a closer more than they need a shortstop, according to Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com. Philadelphia has interest in re-signing free agents Ryan Madson and Jimmy Rollins.
  • MLB.com's Mark Bowman looks back at the 2008-2009 offseason, when Braves GM Frank Wren added Derek Lowe and Javier Vazquez rather than Jake Peavy and A.J. Burnett.
  • A second lawsuit against Mets owner Fred Wilpon and family related to Bernie Madoff is nearing a settlement, reports Rubin.


36 Responses to NL East Links: Wright, Phillies, Braves Leave a Reply

  1. Phillies_Aces35 4 years ago

    I’d agree with that. If you’re building your team around pitching, that includes a lock down closer. I expect them to sign somebody other than Madson though… they’re not going to play Boras’s games.

    As for Jimmy… I hope they hold the line… Anything more than three years or three + club option is a huge mistake, in my opinion.

    • That is incredibly short sighted.  How are you going to put more emphasis on a guy that might pitch 40 innings per year over a SS who should be expected to play 1200?

      Gold Glove shortstops do not grow on trees, closers on the other hand do. 

      • Phillies_Aces35 4 years ago

        So giving Jimmy Rollins a 5 year contract is a good move? He may be a gold glove shortstop (one who legitimately deserves the award) but he has a long injury history and the Phillies have a prospect a year or two away from being a contributor (who is as good a defender). There’s plenty of defense first guys (Alex Gonzales, Rafael Furcal) who would be good fits to hold down the fort while a guy like Galvis develops.

        Their closing prospects are a year or two away but it’s such an unpredictable position and you have no idea how one’s going to handle it until they’re put in that situation. More importantly, they don’t trust their two big prospects (DeFratus and Aumont) and the one who’s most ready is Bastardo, but they don’t trust him either.

        I prefer having guys back there that I know, it’s game over, not hoping I’m going to catch lightning in a bottle with a guy like Motte. Can they find somebody? Yeah but I think it would be a mistake to just pick any random guy to be the closer, especially with a team that’s built to win and a fan base that expects them to win.

        Is shortstop a more important position? Yes. But I’d rather have that situation figured out first.

        • JohnKruksWaistline 4 years ago

          As long as it’s not a five year deal, I’m pretty carte blanche with Jimmy. He’s been a huge part of what will likely be the best five years of baseball I’ll ever get to watch, still has it in the field, and takes a ton of heat off Utley.

          • Phillies_Aces35 4 years ago

            I love Jimmy Rollins but I think at this point in his career over paying him just for being Jimmy Rollins is a huge mistake. I mean, as important to this franchise as he is, he’s not Derek Jeter. Chase Utley’s the face of this franchise (and even he’s a shell of his former self).

            Is shortstop the most important position for the Phillies? Probably. But I’d address Jimmy after I have my closer situation solved because you have other options if Jimmy finds somebody willing to over pay him.

            I think you just hold the fort with Jimmy and let his market play out and adjust to the market.

          • JohnKruksWaistline 4 years ago

            Utley’s been able to do his thing because Jimmy brings the media to him. I’m not saying over pay, but I’m also not expecting a discount of any sort (especially with Ruben negotiating). The bullpen will get worked out.

          • Phillies_Aces35 4 years ago

            I don’t know if Jimmy takes a lot of heat off Chase though. Chase doesn’t get a lot of heat because the city of Philadelphia thinks he’s some kind of god. I doubt anything would really change if he left. Victorino’s become a lot more vocal and Ryan Howard’s always accountable.

            I just personally would try to fill my bullpen vacancies and let Jimmy’s market dictate that situation instead of overpaying him to get a quick resolution. If he walks, they’ll replace his offensive production with a free agent or a trade for a third baseman or left fielder.

          • NickinIthaca 4 years ago

            I think your logic here is vastly skewed to the side of the closer here.  At what position do you have a better chance filling the void left by the previous player?;

            SS – Jimmy Rollins (Type A) in a free agent class with the following ranked players:
              Jose Reyes (Type A)
              Clint Barmes (B)
              Yuniesky Betancourt (B)
              Rafael Furcal (B)
              Alex Gonzalez (B)
              with Jack Wilson, Jamey Carrol, O-Cab and Edgar Renteria rounding out the unranked household name starters listed on this sit.

            Whereas, at Closer you could replace Ryan Madson (Type A) with any of the following:
              Heath Bell (A)
              Matt Capps (A)
              Francisco Cordero (A)
              Frank Francisco (B)
              Jonathon Paplebon (A)
              Jon Rauch (B)
              Francisco Rodriguez (A)
             
            Plus the following players that are just listed as relievers but have closing experience: David Aardsma, Octavio Dotel, Aaron Heilman, Jason Isringhausen, Brad Lidge, Vicente Padilla, Fernando Rodney, Kerry Wood, Michael Wuertz, Joel Zumaya, Mike Gonzalez & George Sherrill…

            I just get the feeling that it will be harder to replace J-Roll’s production on the free agent market than Madson’s….

          • MetsMagic 4 years ago

            I would LOVE to see Heilman as the Phils closer next year…

          • Do Mets fans always just post ridiculous things?

          • Phillies_Aces35 4 years ago

            Out of those names the only ones i like are Bell, Paplebon, and Madson. Nathan is my fourth choice on a one year deal. The rest are way to inconsistent and I wouldn’t trust any of them.

            My shortstop wishlist would be Reyes, Rollins, Gonzalez
            (who I think isn’t going to be much worse offensively than Raul Ibanez or Pedro Feliz were), Barmes, and Furcal in that order… might as well go with Galvis if none of those guys will sign.

            I don’t think there’s any question that there’s only two shortstops capable of producing like Jimmy Rollins… but there’s no use overpaying him in years or dollars, especially on a team that’s getting older.

            If you upgrade left field with a guy like Michael Cuddyer or upgrade at third base, you could conceivably upgrade the offense as a whole because whoever you add at shortstop is most likely going to equal the production they got out of Ibanez.

          • If I could like this post 1,000,000 times, I would.

            I think this guy could use a refresher in Econ 101.

          • Phillies_Aces35 4 years ago

            Maybe you do. You’re assuming those guys can come in and do a comparable job to one of the big name guys, but you don’t gamble with a $175 million dollar payroll. This isn’t Tampa Bay, the Phillies have the resources to go out and acquire big name talent.

            … you’re right, it’s smart business to go into the season with a guy like Aaron Heilman as the closer… they’re second tier pitchers for a reason.

            Papelbon is probably the 2nd best closer in the game. Are those good fall back options? Perhaps, but they’ve invested so much money on this team, it doesn’t make sense to cheap out on on an important piece.

            I’m liking the idea of them signing Nathan to a 1 year deal + an option for $7-8 million and letting one of the kids take over next year. (In my opinion, it would be a good way to go).

        • Eric Gehman 4 years ago

          that argument hinges on two false claims:
          Claim 1: Freddy Galvis is going to be ready in a year or two – Freddy Galvis is not a sure thing.  He has 1 good year in the minors so far, and even then all he really did was put up a good-but-nowhere-near-great batting average.  He *might* be an adequate SS in a year or two, or (more likely) he might be the same pop-less defensive replacement we all thought he was.

          Claim 2: The RP prospects are a year or two away – Schwimmer has put up K/9’s over 10 in the minors every year since ’08, with good enough control to contribute right now at the major league level.  He has nothing left to prove at AAA, and the only reason the Phils would keep him down there would be to keep his service clock down.  De Fratus has equally impressive numbers over the past 3 years.  Even if one struggles, you have a second, equally capable relief prospect waiting in the wings.  

          Worse, you’re contradicting yourself. If relievers are volatile (which they are), and they are used far more sparingly than starters or offensive guys (which they are), why would you pay one big money?  More risk + less production are a bad combination.  Better to roll the dice with a bunch of talented young guys in the pen and get a reliever at the trade deadline (if needed) than waste an entire season with a crummy shortstop when your core players are on the verge of AARP eligibility.

          Logic: it works.

          • Phillies_Aces35 4 years ago

            Claim 1: Freddy Galvis was never considered anything more than a glove first short stop with a below average bat. I never pretended to say anything different. His offensive season was the result of an increase in strength and a better situational awareness. He’s a premiere defender and anything they’d get out of his bat would be a plus. If he could develop a league average bat, I’d be satisfied with that given his defensive reputation.

            Claim 2: They may pitch in the major leagues next year but they won’t be ready for a big time role on the club for a year or two. Aumont is most likely going to start in AAA and DeFratus is probably going to start in AAA and get called up mid season as a middle reliever. I personally don’t think either are ready for anything more than middle relief work.

            And Schwimer doesn’t have anything else to learn? how about getting left handed hitters out. Check his numbers against lefties… over .300 at the triple A level. They have no reason to keep his service clock down because he’s not going to be much more than a middle reliever at best with those types of splits…

            Schwimer’s not even in the same league as DeFratus or Aumont in terms of stuff or upside. Schwimer’s ceiling is a set up man.

            As for contradicting myself, volitle isn’t really the right word (for the situation I was presenting)… most set up relievers are, but there’s a good number of lock down closers (Papelbon, Madson, Bell, Nathan to some extent) that are going to potentially be on the market. I’ve got to think one of them is worth the multi year risk. I don’t think there’s that much risk in signing Papelbon to a three year contract). There’s enough guys on the market with track records that going with youth or praying that a guy like Kyle Farnsworth can have a decent year doesn’t make a lot of sense with the pitching staff currently assembled.

            The teams that go with a young closer generally aren’t competing or are going with a known commodity (Craig Kimbrel for instance). Aumont and DeFratus are unknown commodities. Last thing I want to see is a rookie coming in and blowing a 1-0 game after Roy Halladay dominated for 8 innings.

            They wasted a year of that roster on that roster with a below replacement level left fielder. In addition to having Pence for a full season, If they can upgrade left field with a better left handed bat to platoon with Mayberry, and sign a complementary third baseman/utility infielder, you aren’t going to lose much, if anything offensively if Jimmy finds a suitor willing to overpay him.

            The best solution is for Jimmy Rollins to come back, I’m not saying any different. It’s not a great solution if it comes at the price of overpaying him based on his reputation versus the production he’s going to give them over the course of the contract.

            Besides, it’s not like he did a whole lot to help them win in 2010.

          • Again, given the time and an index finger that would not form calluses, I would like this post 1,000,000 times..

        • Hey, I want a five year deal too, doesn’t mean I’m going to get it, does it?

          Anyway, my point was not to address the relative merits of a five year deal for Jimmy Rollins, my point is that SS’s, particularly good defensive SS’s are far more valuable to a team in terms of wins/losses than a closer.

          The best SS in the league last year was, Tulo at 6.3 WAR.  The best closer in the game was Kimbrel at 3.2 WAR.  Hypothetically, you are the Braves GM…..if in April 2011 you were to trade Gonzalez AND Kimbrel to Colorado for Tulo, the Braves likely would have make the Wild Card.

          The fact that a trade like that would NEVER occur should tell you how valuable a good SS is. 

          If you want to argue about 5 years for Rollins, be my guest, but you are preaching to the choir regarding that issue.

          • Phillies_Aces35 4 years ago

            I don’t feel comfortable with any of the “closers” out there besides the elite group and I doubt Ruben does so it’s a moot point because there’s going to be a big name closing games for the Phillies next year.

            You can use all the sabrmetric stats you want but the teams that win all have great closers. (Giants, Yankees, Phillies in 08, Red Sox). The Cardinals win their division if they had a great closer the entire season. They caught lightning in a bottle with Motte, that’s fine. It doesn’t always happen.

            It’s a difference in baseball philosophies, nothing more. You don’t value the closer position… that’s fine, I and a lot of people value the position. I’m not saying it’s a more important position than short stop, I’m saying I want that situation figured out first.

            I’m not saying let Jimmy go. They can afford a closer and a shortstop. They can afford both a big name closer and Rollins. What I’m saying is I want the closer situation figured out before I want Jimmy’s situation figured out because nothings going to happen with him until late in the off season.
            I’m just saying that if they’re in a position where somebody DOES offer him a 5 year deal, it’s time to let him walk.

            You can find WAR in other places. If you sign Cuddyer and Gonzalez the combined WAR is greater than Ibanez/Rollins. Doesn’t have to be at short stop. The Phillies win the division last year without Jimmy Rollins. Considering most of that team will be back I’d imagine they’d be in a similar situation.

            Speaking of Kimbrel, btw, if he doesn’t blow the last game of the season and a game against the Cardinals, the Braves win the Wild Card with Gonzalez as their shortstop. (Papelbon did the same thing, I’m aware but if Crawford catches that ball, who knows what would have happened).

  2. Dylan 4 years ago

    I’ll take Cuddy/ARam and Nathan. I think that would improve the offense.

  3. no way – closers are over rated – with their great staff Phils need good d at short and with dwindling offense they need production –waaay more than a guy to get 3 outs – closers are always available at the deadline

  4. diehardmets 4 years ago

    I think the better move would be to just let Bastardo close and sign Cuddyer to be the right handed bat they need.

    • MetsMagic 4 years ago

      Truth is, Bastardo’s a much better pitcher than Francisco Rodriguez and Heath Bell. 

      • NickinIthaca 4 years ago

        Do you only feel that way because the Mets got rid of the latter two? 

        Until Bastardo can do on a regular basis what K-Rod and Bell have done in the 9th inning, I’ll go with one of the proven guys if I have the choice.

        • MetsMagic 4 years ago

          I was just naming the two biggest “name” closers, and for some reason Papelbon escaped me.

          I had completely forgotten Bell came from the Mets. Willie had done such a good job concealing his existence and handing the ball over to other young studs like Heilman, DeJean, and Manny Aybar.

    • Phillies_Aces35 4 years ago

      They don’t trust him. He was the best reliever on the team last year but his September raised some red flags. I think he’d be their guy if they fail on the free agent market, but they won’t give him the job outright.

      In addition, he’s never really profiled as their “closer of the future” prospect. Their organization sees one of Phillipe Aumont or Justin DeFratus as being the closer of the future.

  5. NYBravosFan10 4 years ago

    I think Lowe had more starts than Peavy has innings pitched since he got traded to chicago

    • sportsfan07 4 years ago

      Not exactly true but either way though Wren would have messed up just by adding any of those 4 pitchers then or now.

      • Javy Vasquez was pure gold for the Braves. Then we traded him for a top prospect before he blew up again. No regrets on that one.

        • sportsfan07 4 years ago

          True. Forgot about Vasquez’s very good season with the Braves. That’s why I don’t understand why this guy is even writing about that offseason in hindsight, especially when all 4 of them are not even good this year.

  6. MetsMagic 4 years ago

    Gotta love the Wilpons. For such an uninteresting and bland bunch of people, they make headlines every day based on something that no one cares about. 

  7. Jim McGrath 4 years ago

    If I were the Phillies I would sign Pap to close. Let JR walk, trade Blanton or a number 4 or 5  starter for Scutaro.

    • Phillies_Aces35 4 years ago

      If Boston would trade Scutaro for Blanton I would do that deal in a heartbeat, but I’ve got to imagine Boston would want more.

  8. grownice 4 years ago

    I remember the days when David Wright was relevant.

  9. coolstorybro222 4 years ago

    I love Wren for making 2008 a distance memory.

  10. Metspoop14 4 years ago

    What the phils need is gutters

  11. NickinIthaca 4 years ago

    That’s not the best argument I’ve heard on this site…

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