Matt Garza Talks Heating Up

5:12pm: The Cubs and Blue Jays continue to discuss a Garza deal, Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio and ESPN.com tweets.  The Cubs seem to be prioritizing young starting pitching in talks about Garza, tweets Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com. One executive told Heyman that the Yankees and Blue Jays have what it takes to acquire Garza.

12:53pm: Trade talks for Cubs starter Matt Garza are heating up, writes David Kaplan of Comcast Sportsnet Chicago.  Kaplan says the Blue Jays, Yankees, and Red Sox are involved, but the Cubs' asking price is "incredibly high."

Yesterday, MLBTR's Ben Nicholson-Smith took an in-depth look at Garza's contract situation; he's under team control through 2013.  Cubs president Theo Epstein said on Friday that Garza is "exactly type of pitcher we want to build around," but he'll listen on everybody.  So far this winter trade values have been established for Gio Gonzalez, Mat Latos, and Trevor Cahill, but all of them came with at least four years of team control.


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392 Comments on "Matt Garza Talks Heating Up"


Guest
3 years 8 months ago

Theo is going to lower the boom on somebody….

The_BiRDS
3 years 8 months ago

Kaplan says the Blue Jays, Yankees, and Red Sox are involved, but the Cubs’ asking price is outrageous and Theo must be “incredibly high.”

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

thats pitching now…like i said before what Gm’s are willing to pay for pitching right now makes me think everyone is high!!!

3 years 8 months ago

Jimmy McMillan (Founder of the Rent is Too Damn High Party) is going to get involved and fix Theo’s Wagon!

The Cubs didn’t give up that much for Garza really, so why is Theo thinking he’s going to get some “Princely” Sum here.

All GM’s tell Theo: You’ll get Nothing and Like It!

The Heck with Him!

Rangersfan32
3 years 8 months ago

Didn’t the cubs give the rays what are now 3 of their top 5 prospects?

Patrick Beliveau
3 years 8 months ago

Lee is the only person of significance the Cubs gave up… Archer is ranked all over the place ,as high as 3 on BA, as low as 11 by Sickles… Guyer is #7 according to Sickles, BA doesnt have him top 10… big jumps in those last 2 to accurately say they are top 5 prospects… as i said before, the only thing Chicago gave up thats worth a damn is Lee…

3 years 8 months ago

But, at the time, Archer was the Cubs #1, Lee was #4, Guyer was #10, and the catcher (whose name I am forgetting) was like #14 and rising fast cause he hit like crazy that year at AAA.  Fuld was interesting cause he was willing to run into walls & play like his life depended on it.  So now you want to say only Lee was worth a damn, but that’s bull, you can’t have it both ways.  Prospects in these trades are expected have to be high on the lists, but then when the prospects don’t work out it was a crap deal.  Spoken like a fan.  The Cubs will get a little less for Garza than the Latos/Gonzalez deals though Theo is probably starting there.  Will be more like the Cahill deal.  Here’s what I think: Jays give up Marsinak, Thames, Alvarez, maybe a A-baller pitcher.  Might be too much though.  But I think it’s the Yankees who are the team who are going to deal.  They don’t want to pay Kuroda 12 mil to find out he can’t hack it in the AL East.  Garza is their second choice to Danks who the White Sox most likely blew any chance of dealing him by asking for the moon.  Yankees give up: one of Banuelos or Betances, that OF Williams, and two of Warren, Phelps, Noesi.  Or if it were me, I’d just take Williams & the final 3 pitchers & leave out Banuelos & Betances.  Those three pitchers are ready to go ML starters in my opinion, and then Theo could dump all the former Cubs crap starters like Wells, Dempster, Zambrano, for whatever, and leave the younger arms, like Carpenter, Cashner, Samarzja in the pen to continue to develop.  Williams if he keep progressing will arrive the same time as that new 2b Torreyes and the Cubs own OF Szcuzr in 2014 or so.  I think Theor wants a little for now, and a little for later.  Look sat the Reds trade.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago


ankees give up: one of Banuelos or Betances, that OF Williams, and two of Warren, Phelps, Noesi.  Or if it were me, I’d just take Williams & the final 3 pitchers & leave out Banuelos & Betances”.

Wow….a reasonable trade scenario?

I think Betances +Williams +Warren is a very fair deal. If you wanted to switch out and make it Williams + Warren + Noesi + 2 of someone like Davis Adams/David Phelps/JR Murphy then they would definitely do it as well. I think they would be hesitant in including any more than 3 pitchers in a deal though just for depth purposes.

3 years 8 months ago

I think the Yankees would offer the best talent.  They also have that Yankees mentality that they are a World Series team every year and need to gather talent aggressively.  They are also a little weird about their own players.  They value them when trading them, but using them for themselves is sometimes a different matter.  I think a scenario with Williams, then the crew of pitchers, Warren, Phelps, and Noesi would be a good deal.  The problem is in the perception.  It would look like Theo didn’t get a sure fire top talent to the fans & some media.  In my opinion, getting three guys who have been top 15 ranked for years (Noesi, Warren, Phelps) as they have moved through the system and are ready to pitch in the majors right now, & gambling on a low A ball OF who already has the OBP Theo loves & bats lefty is a great useful deal. It’s a trade with great odds of being successful for the Cubs.  And the Yankees get a AL East tested, solid #2 starting pitcher on the cheap right now with two controlled years & no history of injury who would surely sign up for more years in the pinstripes.  Then again, Theo will probably deal Garza to the Jays…

3 years 8 months ago

Agree for the most part. IMO Garza will go to whoever has the most MLB ready pitching.  I don’t think it makes sense for the Cubs to deal Dempster or Zambrano b/c (1) their value is so low right now; (2) they desperately need pitching; (3) they will be FAs next year, so the dead wood comes off.

The Cubs can’t stop with Garza they also have to deal Soto and Marmol.  If Bailey has as much value as he apparently does, Marmol may bring in a nice catch.

sjd1982
3 years 8 months ago

David Wright, Dillon Gee, Josh Thole,Bobby Parnell and a prospect for Matt Garza, Geovanny Soto and Carlos Marmol

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Wright would make no sense for the same reason that Garza doesn’t. He earns a lof and they aren’t ready to compete right now. They need young and cheep talent that can develop and grow together and once they become competitive then spend on FA’s and star players via trades.

3 years 8 months ago

No it would take the Mets’ whole farm to get those 3

3 years 8 months ago

Oh that will fix the Mets right up! Marmol for Wright!
I realize more is involved, but if I were a Mets fan and we got Marmol and the Cubs got Wright. Mets fans would be outside Alderson’s Office with Pitch Forks and Torches!

chico65
3 years 8 months ago

You’re going to get yourself banned posting the same crap repeatedly…

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Why wouldn’t it make sense to deal Dempster or Z? Demp can probably get you a borderline top 100 prospect. A good scout can still find great prospects not on a top 100 list. Z just needs to go and if they can save some money then do it.

3 years 8 months ago

Think my comment didn’t post. Basically I said if you deal Dempster or Z, yeah you may get something back…something. But then who pitches?  Before Wood they had a 3 pitcher rotation with Dempster, Zambrano, Garza. If they deal Garza the Demps and Z and Wood, which is inadequate for a MLB team

3 years 8 months ago

Mistyped- if you deal Garza they only have dempster, Z, and wood. Good luck filling those holes.

3 years 8 months ago

Are they that high?
I just looked it up

Two players are over 25
While I like Sam Fuld, he’s ok and probable not a prospect.
Lee looks like a player and maybe the other player traded (a pitcher)

I don’t know what Theo can expect here.
Plus, if he trades Garza, who’s left in the rotation, besides Zambrano?

3 years 8 months ago

It doesn’t really matter what the Cubs gave up. They gave up quite a few players they probably wish they could have back. Even if they’re not star prospects, they are all useful players, incl. Guyer and probably Chirinos.

But yeah remember the Mariners gave up less when they got Cliff Lee than when they traded him 6 mos. later?  So it’s a whole new ballgame.

BlueCatuli
3 years 8 months ago

2 of the Rays top 5…

asovermann
3 years 8 months ago

Hak-Ju Lee is good and thats
about it. Brandon Guyer? Was only decent in the minors, 25 yr old 4th or 5th Outfeilder.
Chris Archer? Had a 130:86 K:BB last year, not very good. Robinson
Chirinos? 27 year old backup catcher who hit .259 in AAA last year. Sam
Fuld? Very good defensivly, but he hit .240 for the Rays. The Cubs made
out great in that deal. It was essentially Lee for Garza.  Guys like Guyer, Chirinos and Fuld were all expendalble because they didnt have much of a future with the Cubs since they have some good OF and C prospects still in the minors ala Matt Sczcur and Wellington Castillo.

3 years 8 months ago

No that’s just wrong.  Guyer was ranked 10th for the Cubs and Sczuzr hadn’t even played yet or had less than 100 at bats in that first quarter season.  Chirinos was a hot catching prospect at the time, didn’t do so hot last year.  Archer was a top flight pitching prospect.  Lee was thought to be excellent, but his hitting at higher levels was questioned.  Lee is proving himself, the rest, like most prospects, fell off.  Archer now is said to be a possible future closer for the Rays.  You’re looking at the trade after the fact, a year later.  When it was made, it seemed to everyone that the Cubs gave up a ton.  Don’t rewrite history now that the trade didn’t work out like the way many thought it would..

unamaka
3 years 8 months ago

It doesn’t matter who they gave up when they got him…it matters how well he performed last season and how clubs expect him to perform in the future.

unamaka
3 years 8 months ago

It doesn’t who the Cubs gave up to get him…what matters is his production from this past season and how well clubs expect him to produce in the future.

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

and on the seventh day they said….Amen

3 years 8 months ago

Hey The_BiRDS, I sure your aware of if Your team has what others want,why not ask for the Moon! If you don’t get someone to give you what you want ,you have 2 choices,go to someone else or Keep him ,If the Cubs could scored runnd for him he would have been a-Lot better off ,record wise,now that said ,if I was Garza <I'd Pray for a trade,since Theos "Rebuilding,Looks like SWISS Cheese @ best,Right now,with ,rejects & players just off injury,don't apear Garza will get any better run support for himself next year if he is still there!   So If I was Garza,I'd Diffently Pray for a trade!! A Die Hard Cub Fan,being REALISTIC!!!!

seems2me
3 years 8 months ago

wat the heck was that all about?

joeybw
3 years 8 months ago

Is it me or is it weird that Theo is talking trade with the Sox and Yanks?

Joey E
3 years 8 months ago

why is it weird?

Theo knows the Sox system and the Sox need pitching
the Yankees could use a starter, and have the pieces to get a deal done

NorthSideIrish
3 years 8 months ago

It’s probably a little weird to Theo that he’s finally allowed to talk to the Yankees…he’s never really been gotten to do that before.

chico65
3 years 8 months ago

Hopefully he gets Banuelos, Betances, and more from the Yanks.  I could live with a gutting of their system for Garza.  His spitting doesn’t scare me.

Vmmercan
3 years 8 months ago

Cashman can’t live with that so keep dreaming.

chico65
3 years 8 months ago

I’m counting on Hal getting involved.  He was saying he still wasn’t satisfied with the rotation after CC signed.

McYankee84
3 years 8 months ago

don’t think they would even give up both the B’s for an Ace… which Garza isn’t

nictonjr
3 years 8 months ago

 It would be Banuelos.  Betances is back to walking the park…

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Still a top 30 prospect for a reason (see the low hits/9 and k/9). 

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

The key with Garza is that he only has 2 years of control so they will only get half the package that Gio and Latos were worth.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

The key with Garza is that he only has 2 years of control so they will only get half the package that Gio and Latos were worth.

levendis
3 years 8 months ago

keep hoping. That package would be made for one man, King Felix. Garza, in my eyes, is a solid #3, then again what do I know

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

c.c. and garza would be a very nice 1-2….the yanks would have the best 1-2 in the division{except for maybe devil rays} and boston fans can argue the “chicken bucket boys” all they want but it would be a losing feat……i nominate Robert Andino as mayor of boston

levendis
3 years 8 months ago

Garza is nice, but I wouldn’t trade one of the Bs for him. I think Hector Noesi can do more than hold his own as a starter. I don’t see Garza as a legitimate #2. Price, Shields/ Beckett, Lester is a way better 1,2 punch than CC, Garza. Garza is probably the Rays 4th starter, just shows that hes not a #2

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

i think you may be are underestimating garza a little bit…what im getting at is consistancy…..i think cc/garza would be more of a consistant 1-2….beckett/lester ….you really don’t know….they are kind of odd..its almost like they are awesome and ummmmwtf????? all in the same paragraph

3 years 8 months ago

Not much apperantly

levendis
3 years 8 months ago

i hope Alex the great gives up the farm to land this guy, hes solid but nothing spectacular, well considering what Theo is going to demand.

3 years 8 months ago

Not much apperantly

disgustedcubfan
3 years 8 months ago

Not weird, it’s smart. Two teams that can afford prospects and need starting pitching.
Theo talking to both teams would hopefully drive up the price.  
The only thing that feels weird is having a Cubs GM who has a plan of how to build a winning team.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

It makes sense to me, they have the best prospects and are looking for a pitcher like Garza.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

It makes sense to me, they have the best prospects and are looking for a pitcher like Garza.

3 years 8 months ago

So….. think that Garza could bring us 2 MLB ready players and also prospects?  I’m thinking something like Garza and Brett Jackson for Ellsbury, Daniel Bard, Connor Jackson and a PTBNL?

bigpat
3 years 8 months ago

 Keep dreaming…

catch21_2
3 years 8 months ago

I’m sorry, but Garza is NOT an ace.  He shouldn’t, and won’t, bring anything similar to what you would get for a true ace.

BlueCatuli
3 years 8 months ago

I don’t disagree with your assessment of Garza, but if you don’t think the Cubs are going to get a haul of at least two top ten prospects plus other players you are delusional. The Cubs don’t have to trade him. Either the Cubs make someone over pay or they extend him. They have all the leverage to to start a bidding war between interested teams.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Who says Garza WANTS an extension, especially if Theo has made it clear he is in rebuild mode and will be trading off assetts? Why would Garza want to stay around for that?

let’s be CLEAR. All this talk about Theo wanting to build around a guy like Garza is just talk. Theo has a gameplan to rebuild and he knows that the fastest way to do so is to use his best trade piece to get some impact type prospects. Certainly doesn’t mean he will be able to rob a team but he knows, at minimum, he’ll get a good return. It would make ZERO sense for them to extend Garza because they are at least 3 or 4 years away from being contenders and I don’t see them offering Garza more than a 4 or 5 year deal. What would be the point?

BlueCatuli
3 years 8 months ago

Any reports to the contrary?

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

No reports…just common sense and history.

QCCubsPerspective
3 years 8 months ago

Some in the Chicago media feel by 2014 with the new playoff system in place the Cubs will be competitive enough to have a solid shot at the postseason. That’s less than 3 years from now.

MB923
3 years 8 months ago

I thought the new playoff system was going to take place no later than 2013

QCCubsPerspective
3 years 8 months ago

Yeah you’re right.

joeybw
3 years 8 months ago

Dude, you trade with the Sox, you demand Middlebrooks is in the deal and they will never trade Ellsbury.

The_BiRDS
3 years 8 months ago

HAHAHA you couldnt get Ellsbury for Garza straight up .. I want to be in you Fantasy League

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

What a difference a year makes.

aricollins
3 years 8 months ago

Most fan trade ideas make no sense for one team or another. Congratulations: your trade makes no sense for EITHER team.

East Coast Bias
3 years 8 months ago

haha well said!

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

 No

chico65
3 years 8 months ago

I just literally fell out of my chair laughing

cubsfanraysaddict
3 years 8 months ago

Theo to Ben Cherrington, “That deal is okay, but if you threw in Conor Jackson that might just put it over the top for us”

3 years 8 months ago

Lots of people like Conor Jackson incl. Billy Beane. Maybe will trade Cole for Conor Jackson? 

The_BiRDS
3 years 8 months ago

Did people at work realize you’re not getting anything done today.. because there is nothing funny about work.

chico65
3 years 8 months ago

I did get a strange look from one woman walking down the hall

Oilcanoworms
3 years 8 months ago

no thank you. I like Garza, but would not give up Ellsbury.

nictonjr
3 years 8 months ago

Ellsbury’s next contract:  over Crawford’s deal???

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

 Depends on what he does between now and then

chico65
3 years 8 months ago

He hits another 30+ and keeps around his usual .300 and 40-50 steals and we’re screwed (I’ll gladly take it though).

I hear Boras is referring to Jacoby as his “retirement villa”.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

It wouldn’t surprise me if that were the truth when you’re talking about Boras…

If he hits 9 and has < .360 OBPs again he probably gets extended for just a moderate amount of money.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

You guys were saying the same thing about Lowrie last year.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

 OK?  I don’t even know what you’re trying to imply.  What ellsbury gets paid does depend on what he does between now and when he hits free agency…

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

No way, he’s only had one good year and was injury prone up until last year. The Sox were thinking of trading him last year.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

 He was injured and missed significant time once, and the Sox have said all along that weren’t going to trade it him, it was fans who wanted them to trade him.

But I’ve told you all this before, so I don’t expect it to make any difference to you.

MetsMagic
3 years 8 months ago

The Cubs don’t have anyone or anything that the Red Sox would be interested in trading Ellsbury (who lead baseball in WAR) for, and you offer Garza? lol 

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

One good year does not make a player.

Zac Ratliff
3 years 8 months ago

I ought to slap you for suggesting such blasphemy.

nictonjr
3 years 8 months ago

Ellsbury’s great.  And his contract will soon match that greatness.  The Red Sox could have the most expensive OF without having a RF…

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

 The Red Sox aren’t a team to trade away a star player because he’s going to get expensive…

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

Ellsbury could be another Sizemore.

MetsMagic
3 years 8 months ago

The Grady Sizemore who was possibly the best centerfielder in baseball, who put up 30.3 WAR from 2004-2009? I’d be THRILLED if I was a Red Sox fan. 

MetsEventually
3 years 8 months ago

Doubt the Cubs would give up Brett Jackson since they officially announced a rebuild. 

3 years 8 months ago

Plus, I think the Cubs value him much more than other clubs.  We’d be lucky to get Rizzo of the Padres for him.  Actually, i don’t think the Padres would even do that.

3 years 8 months ago

Is this even news? Anyone can create a rumour with the Jays, Sox and Yanks involved. In fact, it happens on a regular basis. 

I’ll believe it when I see it but to me he’s a high end #3 on a solid staff so I’m not sure what all the fuss is about.

East Coast Bias
3 years 8 months ago

He’d be a number solid 2 on the Yanks or Jays. That may drive up his value to the Cubs..

101andCounting
3 years 8 months ago

I think he’s probably #2 on the Sox too. Lester is their #1, but Buchholz and Garza are pretty much on equal footing.

3 years 8 months ago

No way.  Garza on equal footing with Buchholz, no way.  Injuries & successful seasons.  Look it up.  Garza is way more dependable.  Maybe 3 years from now you could say that but not now.

3 years 8 months ago

If we didn’t think the info was legit, we wouldn’t post it.

jammin502
3 years 8 months ago

Hey Tim, any idea of what names are being thrown around by these teams?

BlueCatuli
3 years 8 months ago

Your assessment is just plain wrong.

3 years 8 months ago

Cashman and Epstein can work it out since they are in opposite leagues now, not competing in same divison.

3 years 8 months ago

just like AA and Epstien.

joeybw
3 years 8 months ago

Rays should offer the package they got for Garza back to Cubs except for Lee and go with a 9 man rotation!

WrigleyTerror37
3 years 8 months ago

Lee is the only player i miss from the original Garza deal.

3 years 8 months ago

I honestly don’t think we would have the pieces to get a deal done.  The cubs could use a lot really, but I have no idea what their “sweet spot” is in terms of prospects they are looking at.  Surely a high upside starter like Banuelos or Betances would be top of the list.  They would want Montero of course for a high impact bat and maybe a couple of lower-level prospects with high ceilings.  Bah…trade talks make my head hurt :(.

101andCounting
3 years 8 months ago

Can Montero play 1B? I could see a package centered around him coming back in a Garza deal.

3 years 8 months ago

I don’t know if he can now.  Could he learn?  Perhaps, but I honestly don’t see them dealing him as his bat this year is an important piece for us.  I was thinking more of a deal centering around Betances with other young prospects like Mason Williams, Hector Noesi and Austin Romine.  But that might not be enough.

slider32
3 years 8 months ago

The Yanks have more than enough to get Garza, the problem is he’s over priced right now. Garza is worth 2 B and 1 C prospect. He is only under control for 2 years. Theo knows if he doesn’t get a good package for him now he won’t be able to trade him next year. If he doesn’t get the package he wants then he will try to resign him like the Sox did with Danks.

tfsmag
3 years 8 months ago

The cubs don’t have to unload Garza, they can afford to extend him several years if  they want. This isn’t a situation where a small market team has to dump one of their star players because they need to free up payroll. Cubs have all the leverage in these talks. Garza would be a solid number 2 on any contending team, and a solid number 1 on a non-contending team.

They should ask for the moon in exchange for Garza. If nobody bites, the cubs extend him and build the team around him going forward.

The_Icon_The_Showstoppa
3 years 8 months ago

No way Theo deals him to Yanks.

perrybr
3 years 8 months ago

This so smart, talk to three of the AL East teams and make them bid against each other.  This is the only way you will get above and beyond what Garza is worth.  Someone is going to overpay and overpay big.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

No. I doubt it goes anywhere. Garza is NOT the kind of pitcher that the Yanks or Sox are going to empty the farm for regardless of who else is involved. This is NOT Roy Halladay here.

nictonjr
3 years 8 months ago

Exactly.  Halladay wanted to go to Philly and nowhere else.  Auction bidding is a wonderful thing.   Doesn’t matter what the other deals were, Tor traded Brett Wallace for Gose and some think he’s a big trade chip now, it matters what the 2nd best offer is…

blueandwhite89
3 years 8 months ago

Those GM’s are too smart for that. Maybe Boston’s new GM (only because he’s an unknown), but I can’t see the Yanks and Jays falling into that trap.

joeybw
3 years 8 months ago

I’m a Rays fan, I saw a whole lot of Garza. He was a Red Sox killer but he was bad in Yankee Stadium so even if he makes 6 starts against Boston a year which he probably wouldn’t, he’s a better fit for the Red Sox than Yankees. He’s a little too HR prone for Yankee Stadium.

BlueCatuli
3 years 8 months ago

Ground ball rate shot up last year. He’s not a fly all pitcher any more.

Vmmercan
3 years 8 months ago

The Yankees’ lineup kills him so he’s a good fit for the Red Sox? I agree.

BDLugz
3 years 8 months ago

He changed his pitch selection and relies MUCH more on his breaking pitches than his fastball now.  He raised his GB% considerably and is much less homer prone because of it.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 8 months ago

I have to wonder if the Sox could use part of the theoretical Theo compensation in a deal for Garza. And no, I’m not saying “Garza for Theo.” These trades are usually a couple of solid prospects along with one or more sleeper prospects. Instead of the sleeper prospect the trade from the Sox could be prospects plus Theo.

Also I’d say the Cubs are about 3 years away from being serious competitors, maybe 2 if Theo gets all the right breaks. Boston’s best potential is in the lower levels so maybe a guy like Bogaerts who is 2-3 years away could be a piece to land Garza.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

I’m nearly certain Bogaerts’ name would come up at some point (probably one of the first names mentioned), but I’d rather get a pitcher not named Garza and keep Bogaerts if he is a sticking point, even if this other (hypothetical) pitcher isn’t as good as Garza.

I’ve also thought about the idea of adding the Theo compensation to a Garza trade, but while it seems like a good idea in theory I’m not sure how well it would work in practice.  They would almost have to agree to a trade in theory and then decide which players would be taken out of the trade and replaced by the Theo compensation.

notsureifsrs
3 years 8 months ago

bogaerts in a garza deal would be a catastrophe

melonis_rex
3 years 8 months ago

This. 

If the Sox were planning to trade Bogaerts, they should’ve gone after Latos or Gio. 

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

 I wouldn’t send Bogaerts in a Gio deal either; Latos, maybe.

aricollins
3 years 8 months ago

The Sox have good prospect depth (if no real slam-dunk blue-chipper), but most of it is on the left side of the infield, where they’ll need the help pretty soon. Not sure they match up well on Garza, though the fact that he’s in arb means a lower AAV, giving them an advantage as they try to limit their luxury tax spending.

I can imagine something like Lavarnway and Renaudo possibly getting it done, depending on what the Cubs think of the former’s defense, but Boston might have to instead replace Lavarnway with Bogaerts, loathe as they might be to do so.

BDLugz
3 years 8 months ago

For me it starts and ends with Bogaerts from the Sox.  They are really lacking at pitching depth where the Cubs need help, and I’d expect more in position players to make up for that.

commenter3346
3 years 8 months ago

Ahahhaha. Bogaerts in a deal for Matt Garza?

BDLugz
3 years 8 months ago

Since the Tigers are saying Turner is available for Garza, you bet.  If you aren’t giving up Bogaerts +, then there’s no point in talking.  I’m not saying it’s fair, but the market dictates value, not you or me.

commenter3346
3 years 8 months ago

Ah yeah, I highly, highly, highly doubt they trade one of their best prospects (arguably their best according to some people) with probably the most upside of anyone in that system for 2 years of a #2 pitcher

BDLugz
3 years 8 months ago

That’s fine, then they simply don’t get Garza.  See how this works?  Turner is probably a top 20 prospect this year, give or take – higher ranked than Bogaerts on most every list I’ve seen.  He’s available for Garza.

commenter3346
3 years 8 months ago

Okay?

I don’t want them to trade for Garza in the first place. I surely don’t want them to overpay for him either. 

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Bogaerts and Gary Sanchez are both similar players except for their positions. Same age, same level and similar offensive numbers during their 1st taste of the Sally league. Should be interesting to see what happens.

notsureifsrs
3 years 8 months ago

that’s a good point, especially in light of what i just said about sanchez

the biggest difference is that while both may move off premium positions, one moves to 3B and the other to 1B. that’s significant

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

yes, but I’ve heard that Sanchez has a very high chance of sticking at C. Words not said about Montero from the beginning.

notsureifsrs
3 years 8 months ago

interesting. i remember reading that a scout said he thought sanchez was worse defensively than montero. gonna have to look for that

3 years 8 months ago

I have a hard time believing that the Jays have much interest in Garza for the price.  AA and the Jays have a policy to go after players who are under control to the team for a good period of time.  Since next season is 12 and Garza is under control to the far off date of 13 it seems very unlikely that AA would want him unless the price was much lower.  The Jays aren’t close enough to give up quality young arms for a year or two!

Bombastic_Dave
3 years 8 months ago

Absolutely.  Unless someone in the Jays system believes that Garza’s sustainable and willing to extend on a team-friendly salary, there’s pretty much no chance he’ll become a Jay.

But even the suggestion of a Blue Jay “big player” is something to be excited about, despite the low likelihood.  It would be cool to have Garza in the rotation…

blueandwhite89
3 years 8 months ago

Oh he would have to sign a long term deal. No GM in the game will trade for him without it. He’s a FA in 2014. I agree, probably not likely for Toronto.

johnsmith4
3 years 8 months ago

I see AA being interested in Garza for the “right price”. He won’t worry about extending Garza because of the draft picks he will receive as compensation and the replacements he has in the prospect funnel.

However, I doubt AA parts with any prospect not on the 40-man roster to acquire Garza. That leaves D’Arnaud (most unlikely), Snider, Drabek, Thames, Cooper, Carreno, Beck, Sierra, McDade, & Hechaverria.

It will come down to how badly Cubs want to shed Garza’s salary.

Sully65
3 years 8 months ago

At the current rate being returned for cost effective pitching in MLB, the Sox are foolish not to dangle Lester and/or Bucholz and do their own 4 for 1 trade. I mean seriously if guys like Latos and Gio, who are good but very unproven, get what they have gotten what would proven guys like Lester and Buch bring back.

Vmmercan
3 years 8 months ago

So they can what? Try to get an ace back for Lester? They have no issues to address in the lineup requiring something so drastic, and you wouldn’t give up an ace for a closer, so why would the Sox benefit from dangling Lester?

Sully65
3 years 8 months ago

I said or Bucholz. Deals all being the same the Sox would look a whole lot better with either of hauls the A’s or Padres just got in their deals.

Vmmercan
3 years 8 months ago

I disagree. The Sox commit over 160 million dollars to winning now. They are not the A’s or Padres. Would it be nice to give a shot in the arm to the farm so they will be good five years from now? Of course, but unlike the A’s and Padres, them, and their fans, have a ton committed to winning now. Teams in win-now mode don’t trade guys they consider front-end pitchers in the rotation. That’s literally the only strength to the entire Sox pitching staff. They have no legitimate closer, no proven middle relief in the east except Bard and Aceves, and no back-end of the rotation, and none of those things are what you trade a guy like Buchholz for.

So would it be for offense? Because they’re long-term at first, second, left, they have prospects for right and they’re not replacing CF. I just don’t see a point to be honest, unless you just feel the Sox should rebuild or Buchholz isn’t that good because, this would be a rebuilding move.

chico65
3 years 8 months ago

You sure you aren’t a Yanks fan trolling?

Sully65
3 years 8 months ago

Jon Lester is great and has a ton of heart but this will be the third year he is being asked to become the ace of this staff, he has yet to take that step and even regressed last season. Jon is still a #2 starter and is not an ace. The Sox rotation is led by 3 #2 style pitchers at the front of their rotation they don’t have a true ace.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

John Lester has been the 9th pitcher in baseball since ’08 according to fWAR (even including his ‘down’ year this year).  I know fWAR isn’t the be-all-end-all but you don’t put up the kind of numbers that get you into that category by being a “#2 pitcher.”

0bsessions
3 years 8 months ago

Pitchers who produced less WAR than Lester from 2008-2011:

Jered Weaver
Clayton Kershaw
Cole Hamels
Matt Cain

Taking out his 2011, which was his worst season by far, the following pitchers produced less WAR than Lester from 2008-2010:

Dan Haren
Felix Hernandez
Adam Wainwright
The other four I listed above

Lester is easily one of the top ten pitchers in the MLB, that makes him a #1 by any standard and an ace by most.

notsureifsrs
3 years 8 months ago

i don’t think he’s easily top 10. weaver and kershaw for example have leapt forward in the last 2 seasons, so a 4 year review by itself doesn’t tell the story

lester’s a top starter with an ace pedigree, but 2011 should have the red sox a bit concerned

his walk-rate the last 2 seasons has jumped a full 2%. that was fine in 2010 while he was striking out a career high, but his Ks and swing-strike% fell off significantly in 2011

his progression on these fronts was by design, you’ll remember. the sox encouraged him to draw contact and limit walks at the expense of Ks early on. 2009 was the peak of this progression, as his walks were under 3 per 9 and his Ks per 9 were close to 10

since then, there have been issues. and in 2011 his command completely abandoned him at times

a healthy and top-form jon lester is the best pitcher the red sox have and is, i would say, a top 10 pitcher. but i think at this point it’s on him to prove again that he deserves to be in that group

chico65
3 years 8 months ago

You make no sense.  You say Lester and Buchholz aren’t #1s and imply that is what the Sox need.  And yet you think trading one of them will fill that need (they’ll bring back a #1)?  Now I’m certain you’re a troll. 

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

lester isn’t the superman most Sox fans make him out to be but he most certainly is a true ace. 3 consecutive seasons of 5 WAR or better doesn’t get erased because he had a “below average” year by HIS (or “ace” status). If CC (God forbid) had an off year it wouldn’t erase him as a ace automatically.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

 It’s weird, but I think there are probably more Sox fans who say that “Lester’s nothing more than a #2; what the Sox need is a real ace!”

Most of the fans I talk to have said some variation of that at one point or another at least.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Yeah, well….varying degrees of being an ace. That’s like saying Jessica Alba isn’t super hot because she’s not better looking than Brooklyn Decker. Halladay might be > Lester but Lester is still > than all but maybe 5-12 pitchers in baseball.

PS: That’s all argumentative. Please, no bashing about my tastes in women…ugh.

MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

 Haha, definitely not; I might prefer Alba, but how can you fault a man for liking Decker?

And honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if the same people who tell me Lester isn’t an ace are telling you that he’s the best pitcher in the world.  Boston fans are ‘funny’ and when they want to rag on the team, or think the team needs to add someone, Pedro wouldn’t be good enough, but when they are arguing with a fan of another team about who has the better player Wakefield would be right up there with Sabathia.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 8 months ago

Maybe that would make sense if they weren’t one of the best teams in baseball with one of the best farm systems.

harmony55
3 years 8 months ago

Mat Latos and Gio Gonzalez are more proven (and younger) than Clay Buchholz, who coming off an injury-shortened season has made more than 16 MLB starts in only one season.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

How are Latos and Gio any less proven than Buchholz who has had only 1 solid year this far and had a serious enough back problem last year that he missed significant time?

Also, Sox and Yanks are perennial buyers. We don’t trade young stars for more prospects. What’s the point? It’s about sustaining success and young stars are the best ways to do it. No way would they trade Lester and Buch for unproven prospects.

The Pads and CUbs on the other hand are rebuilding and thus MUST collect as many prospects as possible and hope they pan out.

melonis_rex
3 years 8 months ago

Latos and Gio are unproven? Wut. 

PhnxCrew
3 years 8 months ago

garza to kansas city for yuni b! As fun as it’s gonna be to watch the cubs be the worst team in the Central for a couple years its very scary that they don’t have jim hendry preventing them for being good still.

meanguygary
3 years 8 months ago

The price tags for the Gio’s & Garza’s of the world is preposterous.  Hopefully AA walks away & deals when the market is more favourable. 

meanguygary
3 years 8 months ago

Not in a million are they getting Lawrie for Garza.

BlueCatuli
3 years 8 months ago

I’d have to think he and d’Arnaud are off limits.

BillB325
3 years 8 months ago

Agreed, he became more of a even pitcher in the sense of pitch selection since he started using his slider more instead of just reaching back and gunning it in.