Quick Hits: Manny, Braves, Oliver, Tejada

Some links as Thursday turns into Friday…


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78 Comments on "Quick Hits: Manny, Braves, Oliver, Tejada"


hallwagner
3 years 6 months ago

good signings by the jays, im sure you guys are familiar with okajima from his time with the bosox and o’connor used 2 pitch for my nats. pretty good command and control guy and from what a remember a plus breaking ball

Timothy Rissland
3 years 6 months ago

Jays? Think you mean Yankees 😉

3 years 6 months ago

Come on M´s, give Manny a minor league deal , he can´t be worse than Jack Cust!!

EdinsonPickle
3 years 6 months ago

Actually, he can be.

3 years 6 months ago

Talent-wise Manny could be at about 25% of his former self (not even his in-prime former self) and be better than Cust, especially if they DH’d him and avoided his atrocious fielding.

As for his effect on the team beyond that… one can only speculate.

EdinsonPickle
3 years 6 months ago

I’m not saying for sure that he would be worse, but even in a best case scenario, I doubt he would be that much of an improvement. He’s a soon to be 40 year old power hitter without the power in a ballpark that devours right handed sluggers, and he hasn’t played ball since the beginning of the 2011 campaign; not to mention he’ll be serving some suspension time. That last part doesn’t directly correlate with his performance, but it’s something to think about.

All in all though, if it’s on a minor league deal and the M’s do happen to catch fire then that would be fantastic.

3 years 6 months ago

Miguel Tejada is not training in Miami, He’s playing winter ball in DR for the Aguilas cibaeñas.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

I heard that also on the Braves blog earlier . Andd the report was his timing was off and showed no power , at all .

grownice
3 years 6 months ago

Manny being desperate… not a good look

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

I’d so take him on the jays and give lind absolutely no AB’s vs LHP 

grownice
3 years 6 months ago

 Even with the 50 game suspension and the circus it would bring ? lol I’d pass but i do think if Lind struggles this year , he’s gone.

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

I’m not sure if Lind struggles.. but I’m sure he struggles against LHP.

Manny won’t get much money, I think it would be cool to sign him and he seems motivated (or maybes hes broke) either way is fine. 

$1519287
3 years 6 months ago

Dodgers are making sure he doesn’t go broke for a few years. Gotta love those deferred payments.

– ECB

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

I’m shocked that teams haven’t put PED clauses in contracts.

Something along the lines that if they are tested positive the contract becomes non guaranteed. 

MB923
3 years 6 months ago

Are those even allowed to be put in contracts?

Would be kind of funny seeing a Cot’s contract look like this (I’ll use the Rays as an example):

Manny Ramirez (Tampa Bay Rays)
 – 1 year/$2M (2012)
 – $1M Bonus if 100 games played
 – Contract Termination if Suspended for PED use

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

not sure to be honest.

but think of a player who takes PEDs and has a really good year and then a team signs them to a big contract extension. Teams should be able to get out from them if they want

3 years 6 months ago

It would need to be mandated by MLB, no agent is going accept it otherwise.

2donaldo1
3 years 6 months ago

Well there we go Miggy as the back-up ss the Braves are seeking.  NOT. Maybe circa 2004, but the D-fense is already bad enough in the infield and if we truly are just looking for a veteran glove man we could snag one by spring training on the cheap.

smt1
3 years 6 months ago

Jurrjens, Prado and two other “premium guys” in exchange for outfielder Adam Jones. Lol, talk about the Orioles severely overvaluing Jones. Jones is basically a slightly younger Jeff Francoeur when you look at career averages, no idea why the Braves of all teams would want a player like that. It looks like Wren’s valuation of Jones is more like one of JJ or Prado plus none of the big 4 pitching prospects.

OhthePossibilities
3 years 6 months ago

From a recent Fangraphs chat –

Comment From Brent
“The Orioles seem to put way way to much value in Adam Jones. If the Braves actually offered Jurrjens, Prado and a prospect for him, they were nuts to turn it down, right”

Dave Cameron:”Nope. Jones is a good player with a lot of upside. If the Orioles think UZR is wrong and he was an even an average defensive CF last year, that would make him a +4 win player at age 25. Braves fans who think they’re getting him for a song are the nutty ones here.”

smt1
3 years 6 months ago

Dave Cameron is normally on the ball, but his argument there is tenuous at best. Later in the chat, someone remarked “Jones has never had a WAR above 2.9 while Prado already has had a 4.4 season. Prado is more versatile, hits for a higher average, higher OBP, strikes out less, walks more and has equivalent power. Jurrjens alone for Jones would be a fair trade for both sides. Both have the same amount of arb years remaining and both are good, but not great players. Jurrjens has a career 10.5 WAR while Jones has a 9.2.”

And Dave Cameron’s retort was essentially “Jones is good”. Cameron has fallen in love with Jones without the statistical evidence to back it up.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

Thank you sir . Some of the Braves fans I have talked to have said the same thing that Cameron is usually ‘spot on’ . But after reading what he posted , they still can’t believe that he stated that . Especially seeing how the stats have Prado at a higher value over the same length of career time and Jurrjens at about equal value . He for once just didn’t make any sense in that report . I did hear that a Braves fan in Colorado posted back to Cameron in response and asked him what exactly Jones was ‘great’ at ? LOL .

Brv Rocks
3 years 6 months ago

The thing that aggravated me the most about that chat was that he said that Jones “might” be a 4 win player but he gave no credence to the fact that Prado has already been a 4 win player.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

Yeah I know . Would rather get someone who ‘might’ or keep someone who ‘has’ ?

Brv Rocks
3 years 6 months ago

Dave Cameron has a new article on fangraphs documenting why he likes Adam Jones so much.  I really just don’t get it.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

Sounds to me like he values the guy based on his own emotions rather than Jones’ statistical history .

Brv Rocks
3 years 6 months ago

Hahaha….that was MY comment that you are referring to.

I really like Dave Cameron but Adam Jones must be one of “his” guys that he will defend to the end.  I’m surprised that a fangraphs writer could take such a biased approach.  Jones is a nice player but there is no statistical evidence that he is anything more than that.

Clayton Wilson
3 years 6 months ago

Well I’ll be damned…….That’s the proof Braves fans have been looking for! I read that chat live, actually. In the comment section there’s this little bit…..

“I hear your comments that Adam Jones is a good player… BUT what is he good at????

1) He isn’t good at getting on base….319 career OBP.

2) He isn’t good at stealing bases. 44SB with 20 CS in 624 career games.

3) He isn’t good at CF defense. Rated low by metrics and you state he needs hard work on his reads and jumps.

4) He is not good at hitting for power away from Camden yards. Career .404 SLG percentage away.

5) He is getting better at striking out….”

That’s from ColoradoBravesFan. Do you know of him? Me neither. But he makes a pretty good point. I’ll add that he struggles against lefties to that list. Now, I agree with Cameron in that Jones is a good player and could still see some improvement at his age…..but two years of Adam Jones(one of them being in LF) isn’t worth 2 years of Prado(a comparable hitter with a lot more defensive versatility), 2-3 years of Jurrjens(who I don’t even like, but still has decent value), and a pitching prospect with any sot of upside. There’s nothing wrong with the Orioles asking such a high price for one of their few good pieces. They’ve got quite the hill to climb in the AL East. Doesn’t mean the Braves are foolish for not meeting that price.

2012 Projections

Jones: .278, .322, .447, 22 HR, 106 OPS+
Prado: .281, .325, .417, 12 HR, 100 OPS+

Nothing against the Orioles or Jones, but the Braves don’t need Adam Jones and I’m disappointed in their lack of focus when it comes to OBP. Plus, there’s no need to make the lineup even worse against these tough lefties in the NL.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

Hah . I posted about that guys comment as guess as you were posting yours . But the guy from Colorado made perfect sense .

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

It’s funny , but if you look at most of the reports and rumors about this most would see that it has mainly been O’s sportswriters that have been posting that the Braves are interested in Jones . The Braves writers have been shooting the rumor down . If the way it looks is true , then it could be the O’s who are pushing to try and trade Jones to the Braves instead of the Braves inquiring about him . Which I’m sure Wren has probably asked . It’s his job to at least inquire on him . But after hearing what the O’s wanted for him , that was probably where the interest ended .

And I know of the ‘rumor’ of the supposed offer that the Braves made for Jones . But like all rumors that come out this time of year , it’s all speculation . And I honestly don’t believe that the Braves would offer that much for Jones .

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

you’re fired.

2donaldo1
3 years 6 months ago

Don’t like the deal in any way. Not the big 4, not JJ, and definetly not Prado. I really dont see much of a power upgrade in Jones, at least not enough to make up for Prado’s versatility. It has been the same old recycled rumors.  

smt1
3 years 6 months ago

Yup, and not like the Braves need power anyways. Near the top of the league in HRs, near the bottom of the league in OBP. Hopefully with Parrish gone that’ll improve. 

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

The only stat we would improve in with Jones instead of Prado would be HR’s . Prado can hit for a higher average , draw more walks , strike out less , and play 2 more positions if need be while still hitting around 15 HR’s per year batting 2nd in the lineup .

rundmc1981
3 years 6 months ago

And you’re only talking about 5-10 HRs from Jones if he plugs into LF. Not worth all the hubbub. 

smt1
3 years 6 months ago

And a similar SLG (and a lower OBP) compared to Prado, assuming a normal Prado year and no breakout from Jones.

rundmc1981
3 years 6 months ago

I really think BAL thinks they can re-sign Jones, if all these rumors about being interested in Prince Fielder are accurate. I don’t know if they’d put some of that money towards Adam Jones, but it sounds like they’re so protective over him because they want to work out an extension with him, but know they can’t start talks now. 

Jeff
3 years 6 months ago

Even that is too high.  It should be Jones+a B prospect for JJ or Prado.

BirdmanRob
3 years 6 months ago

I hope Adam Jones stays on the birds and rakes this year.  

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

if they do trade him, it has to be for prospects.. taking back Jurrjens or Prado makes absolutely no sense.

Sell everything you have and build around Weiters and Machado.  Do things the right way

smt1
3 years 6 months ago

>  taking back Jurrjens or Prado makes absolutely no sense. 

I agree. I don’t the Braves and Orioles match up well TBH. 

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

sure they do. but the braves don’t want to give up one of there young prospect arms.

can’t really blame them. but CF have never come cheap, even bad fielding ones

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

But thats just it . The Braves would be paying for 1 year of him in LF and the 2nd in CF , if they do not resign Bourn .

smt1
3 years 6 months ago

Why do they match up well? Jones doesn’t particularly fill a gaping need for the Braves (which seems to be SS anyways). CF won’t be a need until 2013. LF isn’t a need assuming Prado bounces back (and because of the nature of his “health” problems last year, I think he will).  The Braves need to keep their younger prospects to keep the team healthy financially.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

As a Braves fan , I would honestly rather give the O’s prospects instead of Prado or Jurrjens . But none of Teheran , Vizcaino , Beachy or Delgado . Minor would be the only one of the top prospects that I would give the O’s for Jones . I haven’t really been impressed with Minor , although McCann and Ross said that he improved towards the end of the year .

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

What the braves should do is grab rajai davis out of toronto.

He’ll cost next to nothing, hits lefties well and is probably top 3 in the mlb right now in terms of base stealing ability, which is perfect for late in games subs in the NL.

rundmc1981
3 years 6 months ago

He’d be a nice insurance piece, but there’s not much of a future with him. Plus, TOR doesn’t seem to be interested in JJ, though they’re looking for top of the line starters.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

I wouldn’t have a problem with just finding a sub to backup behind Prado . But Wren has already stated that if he does make a trade, the he is looking for a ‘young RH batting OF thumper’ to basically take over the LF position .

rundmc1981
3 years 6 months ago

One reason we’re considering trading Prado/JJ is because of arb-eligible salary. On our team, we could use the instant relief to devote the salary to possibly a better backup for Pastornicky/Simmons. However, we’re going to need probably a OF starter for either JJ/Prado or a CF prospect not far off (insurance from Bourn). It’s tough to do that considering a lot of teams have addressed much of their needs so far.

We don’t want to trade pitching prospects unless it’s for something that can fill a need: OF depth (particularly CF), 3B talent close to ready. Teams offering pitching prospects won’t get much value from us knowing the depth we have, so most teams probably aren’t going to offer that.

ColoradoBravesFan
3 years 6 months ago

Me too…  He’ll rake to a .320 OBP and strike out tons.   We’ll keep Prado an he’ll return to his career norm and put up an .800+ OPS and fill in for Chipper at 3B. 

NYBravosFan10
3 years 6 months ago

Now it’s nice to finally see a true update!!! Who else could the Braves package to get Adam Jones besides JJ and MP

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

Matt Diaz and the $10 M we still owe Lowe . LOL .

NYBravosFan10
3 years 6 months ago

it could include a couple of minor leaguers and the money to help Brian Roberts pay all of his surgery and rehab bills

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

We would be overpaying . LOL .

rundmc1981
3 years 6 months ago

Do you already have your Adam Jones Braves jersey? Is that why you’re trying to sell this? Good grief.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

I though that Braves fans were gonna knock the dust off of their old #25 Jones jersey’s ?

smt1
3 years 6 months ago

double post

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

Thats the 1 thing about this whole rumor I don’t get . Jones has proven to be low OBP guy who strikes out more than Prado , who he would be replacing . I think we were 8th in all of the ML’s last year in HR’s . And that was with some guys having below career average seasons . What the Braves do need is like you said , someone with OBP skills . And we already have that in Prado . If they can find someone who is as equally good at getting on base with more pop than Prado , then fine . Otherwise , we should just keep him and be grateful that we didn’t downgrade for Jones or Seth Smith .

Guest
3 years 6 months ago

Prado does not play CF.  If we get a LF that can play CF also it free’s up a bench spot.  I dont know about you but I really dont want to be carrying 6 OF on this roster instead of 5.  That is actually worth a lot to the team also.  Have to carry one less RP just to be able to carry a guy who sole responsibility is play CF is bourn gets hurt or needs a day off.  That is why Adam Jones and BJ Upton type players are being looked at for LF for us.  Plus they are true OF and we all know that Prado is not.

Brv Rocks
3 years 6 months ago

Jones is just a bad match for the Braves.  As was mentioned he has terrible on base skills.  He also can’t hit LHP, which is imperative for any player added to the team.   The Orioles also want way too much for him.

It makes a lot more sense to trade Jurrjens for prospects and use the leftover $$$$ to sign Cody Ross as the 4th OF.

smt1
3 years 6 months ago

> Plus they are true OF and we all know that Prado is not.

Prado is fine at LF as evidenced by last year. It’s not a position that particularly needs much fielding ability.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

He may not be a true OFer but his D played well there last year . His dWAR was 0.5 .

ColoradoBravesFan
3 years 6 months ago

We should sign Cody Ross and he would be our CF depth for when Bourn needs a day off.  Ross can play all 3 OF positions, kills LHed pitching, can fill in for Heyward against tough lefties and platoon with Hinske if Prado needs to play 3B.  We would have to trade or release Diaz, one of my favorite Braves….

Clayton Wilson
3 years 6 months ago

You a member of TC?

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

Yes .

Clayton Wilson
3 years 6 months ago

No idea what happened here. Carry on…..

*EDIT* These posts are supposed to come up as replies……:(

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

It’s the site . If you don’t refresh every once in a while , your replies will show up as a post .

Maverick60
3 years 6 months ago

Is 37 the age we are going by for Tejada these days? Maybe its just from watching his time with the giants, but he seems older than that. Kinda surprised to read he is only that old still. Hmm.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

He looks like he is in his mid 40’s to me . Just sayin .

3 years 6 months ago

Ahhh that Frank Wren…so he’s the one that started this mess. Ha!
Anyway regardless of how you analyze the stats of Adam Jones, the bottom line is that he’s just not a good fit for the Braves. I just don’t see him going to Atlanta no matter what they offer! I would much rather see him go to Miami or San Diego. Besides, I see Braves fans busting Adam’s chops about his fielding ability, but what about Prado’s? As for Jurrjens, he can’t stay healthy. I have never really liked this trade from the get go.

Jeff
3 years 6 months ago

Prado was an average 2B, he’s better then Uggla in that regard.  He’s below average in 3B, at least average in LF.

Prado got a pass lass year in LF some because of the position switch, and he’s a loved player (for good reasons- I want to long-term sign Prado and JJ, not trade them, I’d rather trade Hanson)

geauxbraves2000
3 years 6 months ago

I agree, I would rather see Hanson traded also.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

I think we would benefit more in both the short term and long term if we were to trade Hanson instead .

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

His dWAR in LF last year was 0.5 . Thats pretty good considering that he had never played their before .

3 years 6 months ago

Miguel Tejada is playing baseball in the Dominican Winter League, with Aguilas, he is the thirdbaseman and 5th in the order…

3 years 6 months ago

the A’s should take a chance on Manny at DH.  A 1 year minor league contract is not a bad gamble considering Oakland has nothing left to lose.  Plus Manny can hit no matter what.  I’d take him over Matsui

rundmc1981
3 years 6 months ago

Wren’s words do nothing to make us think he’s moving on from Jones. In fact, it sounds like he’s doing everything in his power to drive BAL’s price down. Personally, I think the same thing – ATL is better served to wait it out and let JJ/Prado start 2012 on the roster, but this doesn’t like “we’re moving on from Jones” … though I wish we were. We’re just being sensible about it, which runs counter to all the unconfirmed reports from BALT Sun’s Dan Connolly that we were offering JJ, Prado, and a prospect for Jones.

rundmc1981
3 years 6 months ago

Add HanRam and Reyes and I really feel bad for the Marlins PR staff. They’re going to be walking on eggshells the entire season.