East Links: Braves, Rays, Marlins

Eight of the 18 big league teams with a .500 or better record reside in the two East divisions. Here's the latest from the AL and NL East…

  • The Braves have discussed using money budgeted for 2013 to make a trade this year according to MLB.com's Mark Bowman (on Twitter). Atlanta could be on the hunt for pitching with Brandon Beachy injured and Mike Minor/Randall Delgado experiencing growing pains.
  • "It's not by design that we have somebody different lead us in saves each year," said Rays GM Andrew Friedman to ESPN's Jerry Crasnick. "It's dictated by resources. We have 'X' amount to allocate to field the most competitive roster we can. We can't afford to pay a guy $10 million or $12 million a year to throw 70 innings, so our approach is to have as many good, high-upside arms as we can and figure that one will fall out."
  • “I know who these guys are … I’m not a person who panics. I know what we did to put together this team," said Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports about his 34-38 club. Loria also rejected the idea that members of the coaching staff could be in danger of losing their jobs.


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62 Comments on "East Links: Braves, Rays, Marlins"


Lunchbox45
3 years 2 months ago

Friedman is nuts, who is he to try to bring logic and reason in to baseball.

Completely absurd

3 years 2 months ago

It has worked in TB…..

Lunchbox45
3 years 2 months ago

Oh dear

3 years 2 months ago

Has Friedman’s plan not worked?  Hasn’t TB been in the playoffs the last couple of years just as much as teams with 10-12 million dollar closers if not more?  NYY (Riveria), Boston (Papelbon), Giants (Wilson), Twins (Nathan), Tigers (Valerde), OAK/COL (Street), LAA/NYM/Mil (K-Rod) and LAD Broxton???

I am not saying that i agree with it, but if your buget only allows you to go get a Roberto hernadez, Al reyes, troy percival, JP Howell, Rafeal Soriano, Kyle Farnsworth, or/and Fernando Rodney, they are making the most of it.

Michael Gallemore
3 years 2 months ago

Pretty sure it was sarcasm.

Lunchbox45
3 years 2 months ago

pretty obvious sarcasm I think

Ben_Cherington
3 years 2 months ago

i laughed out loud!

rsanchez1
3 years 2 months ago

Exactly. They should’ve made the Moneyball movie about Friedman. He puts Brad Pitt to shame.

3 years 2 months ago

 The Extra 2% is out in stores…don’t know that it makes sense as a movie, but it’s a great read nonetheless.

-C

Casey McMahon
3 years 2 months ago

Friedman is the best GM in baseball. He surely knows how to BALL on a Budget!

Michael Gallemore
3 years 2 months ago

The Braves don’t need more money to field a decent team, just ask the Rays. We need competent management/manager to do that. We have neither.

3 years 2 months ago

Frank Wren has not been tht bad, people need to get off his back. Fredi Gonzalez has been pretty terrible to this point tho…

Michael Gallemore
3 years 2 months ago

I think his moves have evened out over time, but Wren’s not really my main gripe (The Bourn and Uggla trades were excellent of course). It’s how they handle their pitchers. What happened to the days of having pitchers that could survive a year of pitching, healthy and with their elbows intact. I fear for Kimbrel’s health.

Amakiir
3 years 2 months ago

The Braves have always pitched their bullpens to death. It’s like Bobby Cox had a personal vendetta. Being a relief pitcher for the Braves is like being a lefty specialist for the Mets, your career isn’t going to last long. o.o

rsanchez1
3 years 2 months ago

And Fredi learned from the master Bobby Cox. He did it to the Marlins ‘pen and he’s doing it to the Braves ‘pen too.

rundmc1981
3 years 2 months ago

Yes, but the guys that happen to excel have odd mechanics (Hanson, Teheran, Beachy) or undersized guys. Maddux and Glavine weren’t power pitchers, so you didn’t really have to worry about Tommy John surgery, while Smoltz was…and he had to have it. It’s the catch-22 of loving power pitchers, but knowing that there’s a greater risk of injury.

Clayton Wilson
3 years 2 months ago

How does Beachy have odd mechanics?

rsanchez1
3 years 2 months ago

You just need to listen to Marlins fans who suffered years of Fredi to know he would’ve been terrible. The Marlins were consistently contenders until late in the season when Fredi somehow managed to mess it up, typically by mismanaging the bullpen. The late-season collapse last season would’ve been no surprise to Marlins fans.

Then again, we Marlins fans should’ve listened to White Sox fans warning us about Guillen…

rundmc1981
3 years 2 months ago

Marlins fans? They were too busy proclaiming Henne the new Marino. They still are wondering where Mike Stanton went.

rundmc1981
3 years 2 months ago

I think we have pretty competent management, but not a competent manager. We’re relying on very inconsistent key pieces (McCann, Jones, Uggla), while relying too much on rookies with very little MLB exp (Minor, Delgado, Simmons). I don’t doubt their abilities, but I have trouble having faith that they’re going to get it done more times than not in the grind at season’s end.

notsureifsrs
3 years 2 months ago

i defend the rays management all the time, but knocking the braves for not being equally efficient is a mistake. for all of their savvy moves, tampa management inherited a ton of high first-round talent. longoria and price alone are cornerstone pieces of a franchise

the braves have more money, but not so much more that they can afford big ticket free agents on par with price or longoria. they are not elite, but they do quite well with what they have

bigpat
3 years 2 months ago

The Tampa Bay Rays cheat, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

No other team continues to get more for less every year. If you just look at their entire infield, it’s pathetic, AAA caliber all around, yet they keep on winning. They revitalize the careers of washed up relievers, and their young pitchers pitch very well the majority of the time they come up (Matt Moore can be much better).

I can’t explain it other than the fact that Friedman is a baseball robot who can do everything right.

Rangersalchamps
3 years 2 months ago

Just amazing what they do over there.

Have more REVELANT injuries this year than every team AND still a couple of games out of 1st.

Have had
Jennings
Longoria
Nieman
Hellboy
Farnsworth
Joyce
Upton
Keppinger all on the DL at some point this year and still winning. Don’t think any other team could withstand those injuries and still win.

Ben_Cherington
3 years 2 months ago

Have you seen the Red Sox DL list.  It DOES have the most injured players in the majors. 

But Rays have been outstanding with what they have lost.

Lunchbox45
3 years 2 months ago

red sox have run in to some luck for sure.

but longoria means sooooo much more to the rays then anyone player does on the sox.

Ben_Cherington
3 years 2 months ago

Lackey begs to differ

Rangersalchamps
3 years 2 months ago

This hurts me to say BUT I am impressed with the RS this year. Still don’t like them though 😉 Difference between the Rays and RS is about 130mil in payroll so the Rays injuries are more visible(minor league infield). If the rays had the RS payroll they would be much much better than they are now. Even though impressed with the RS I will take a healthy Ray team over a healthy RS team anyday. RS have to many underachievers(A gone, Lester) and bad exspensive players(Crawford, Lackey).

Bottom line Rays>>>RS for the foreseeable future. Rays rotation can dominate the AL East for then next 3-7 years with just enough offense.

notsureifsrs
3 years 2 months ago

“If the rays had the RS payroll they would be much much better than they are now”

intuitive, but as impossible to prove as the claim that the red sox would be much better if they had as many high first-round draft picks as tampa

the rays are excellent at choosing where to spend because they have to be; there’s no margin for error. and even there, friedman has made mistakes. remember pat burrell? troy percival?

on the other side, boston fielded the most homegrown talent in all of baseball last year. that’s a helluva cushion, allowing them to take some risks in free agency

several of those risks have gone badly. but i’d wager a comparable number of risks go badly for tampa. they’re just much smaller, much less visible risks. and again, that’s not because friedman is too smart to take bigger ones. it’s because he’s too broke

Rangersalchamps
3 years 2 months ago

While I admit teams like the RS don’t get the chance to draft a Price or a Longoria, players such as Jennings, Hellickson, Moore, Cobb, Shields were drafted MUCH LATER than the first round. Every team passeed on these high talents and that’s what makes the Rays better than everyone else the last 4 years. The “they have won because of top picks” is partially right, but not their reason for success. Top Scouting and player development mixed in with a savvy GM and manager and I envision this franchise dominating with this foundation.

Top pick arguement is a scapegoat to ignore their real reason for success.. Better FO than the rest of the AL east, top to bottom. Wouldn’t be surprised to see them have a 15 year 1990’s brave type run(win division 10-15 consecutive years).

LazerTown
3 years 2 months ago

He understands that statistically a single in not any better than a walk, although players are still paid based on their average.

Pena, zobrist, and johnson all dont have good avgs, but have a good obp.
Pena’s avg: .198; obp = .348

Lunchbox45
3 years 2 months ago

actually in every way possible a single is better than a walk.

a good eye at the plate with a patient approach is extremely useful however does not mean they are a complete batter.

LazerTown
3 years 2 months ago

Depends on the situation but with no one on it really doesn’t make a difference between single or walk,  it is only with runner on 3rd or fast runner on 2nd.

But to get a single requires at least 4 pitches, usually more like 5-6 usually, allows teams to better wear down pitchers.

Lunchbox45
3 years 2 months ago

 wow.  that is shockingly false.

so much wrong.

3 years 2 months ago

This. There are so many little situations that add up to singles being better than walks, hence why it’s more highly valued in wOBA. Runners can’t go first to third on a walk. They can’t score from first like they can on a single and an error.

Any time the impetus is placed upon the defense to make a play, it’s better for the offense. The walk=single train of thought is far too simplistic.

-C

notsureifsrs
3 years 2 months ago

HR > triple > double > single > walk > HBP > line out > groundout > flyout > popup > jeff mathis

3 years 2 months ago

quotes like that are why i envy the rays for having friedman. this season, the yankees are spending 26 million dollars between rivera and soriano. the entire rays payroll is 63 million this year. the yankees are only 3.5 ahead of the rays. think about that. you have to admire the efficiency. 

rsanchez1
3 years 2 months ago

You really do have to admire them for what they have been doing the past years. Since 2008, the Rays have been a model for efficiency. They have front office people willing to pull off deals they need, and only the ones they need not the ones everyone else wants, and they have a very smart manager who knows how to put together the pieces to make a winning team. I still like the 9=8 concept Maddon put into the heads of his players in ’08.

esasc4
3 years 2 months ago

I agree, you dont have to spend 150 million to have a good team.

Jerry D'Erasmo
3 years 2 months ago

The Braves need to do something and fast. I am tired of sitting around waiting for all these so called “top prospects” to bloom…plus with all the injuries and the bullpen from last year taking a vacation this year its very frustrating. I actually think they played better last year…spend some damn money and get a bat and and an arm…this is the best chance to win…this year…

rundmc1981
3 years 2 months ago

I can understand feeling like that, but the only “top prospect” has been Julio Teheran. With all due respect to the other 3 untouchables: Vizcaino (TJ surgery), Minor (suckage), and Delgado (suckage) – none really were all that high on lists or prospects like Teheran has been. Beachy came out of nowhere and has majorly overperformed. Minor was a #7 prospect, and never really has matured into a prospect that could dominate. Shelby Miller (STL) was drafted later in the 1st round of the same draft and is now in the top-10 of almost every prospect board.

Spend some money? We are and have. They’re not producing what they’re being paid to produce. Spending money doesn’t have much to do in the decisions during the season. They’ve said they’d spend some of the 2013 budget this season if it’ll help us for the playoff run, but getting Dempster (FA after the season), Garza (likely $13M for ’13 after arb), or Wandy Rodriguez ($23M remaining on deal, $13M option for ’14) would cost a lot in prospects because they’re controllable for more than this season.

I want to get better, certainly, and I don’t want to hold onto all of our prospects, I just wish they would decide on who they want for their future and trade away those we don’t want before their trade value completely depreciates (i.e. Mike Minor, Delgado). Even Teheran’s value has declined based on how ATL has used him (or not used him).

Robb Logan
3 years 2 months ago

As a fan of the sport all I can say is think of Braves fans prior to the era of pitching you guys had. You had to wait more than one season for Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux to fully develop. Growing pains happen. Wanting to implode what could be a great staff in 3 years or so for the win now attitude is just spoiled as Colin said. I would rather see dominance long term for a team with patience than seeing a one or two year wonder with established rentals. 

Colin Christopher
3 years 2 months ago

I agree with everything Robb said except for the part about waiting for Maddux to develop. He was already pretty good when we got him.

Clayton Wilson
3 years 2 months ago

Thank you. Lost several brain cells reading that ridiculous reply from Derek.

Colin Christopher
3 years 2 months ago

I’ve been a Braves fan for about 30 years now, and comments like this make me realize how spoiled we became from 91-05. Suddenly every year is our “best chance to win.” We miss the playoffs for a few years and people start grousing about the team not spending money…well, why should they? For as large of a population as the Atlanta metro area has, attendance at Braves games is pretty pathetic.

Spending money on veteran free agents is one of the biggest market inefficiencies in baseball. By the time most players become free agents, their best years are behind them yet they are paid as if their best years are still to come. 

I say it’s time for the Braves and their fans to show some patience, loyalty, and knowledge of baseball, like St. Louis fans did when Albert Pujols recently walked away. Give our prospects time to develop (Delgado doesn’t suck just because he hasn’t dominated right away…the guy is only 22), let some of our big contracts walk away, and don’t spend the money just because we have it to spend. Spend it when a player who fits what we need is available.

rundmc1981
3 years 2 months ago

Delgado doesn’t “suck”. that’s not what I said, but he and Minor are terribly inconsistent, which is even more maddening. Delgado, like Minor, have flashes of pure domination, but when they’re not on – much of the time recenly – they’re walking 5-6 batters and giving up multiple HRs. That can’t happen. Sure, that could change with maturity, but having them both out there every 5 games will not get us into the playoffs.

Defiancy
3 years 2 months ago

I don’t really know why you would expect either Minor or Delgado to be terribly consistent.  Deglado especially considering he is a rookie.  Minor prior to this year only had 80 MLB innings under his belt, decent innings at that.  This assertion that Deglado/Minor should be consistent is just silly. They are young (in Deglado’s case rookie) pitchers who are going to be subject to volatility.   It’s the nature of being a young pitcher.  Now not all pitchers go through that, but by and large a lot of guys struggle initially at the MLB level.

I do agree with your last statement that the pitching does need to be improved.  

Also a note on Beachy from above, I can’t really see how you can say he has been “majorly over performing” because for one, he has less than 200IP in his MLB career, so what his quantity is at this point is still relatively unknown.   Secondly, his career to date has resulted in a 3.07 ERA with a XFIP of 3.51/FIP 3.23.  and his SIERA is 3.30. 

 So he may be “over performing” but it isn’t majorly and it certainly doesn’t indicate his skill level going forward simply because of the low amount of IP. This is especially true considering his minor league numbers are not far off from his MLB numbers (obviously a little better than his MLB stuff).

Colin Christopher
3 years 2 months ago

Sorry. I took “Delgado (suckage)” as meaning that you thought Delgado sucked. I must have misunderstood.

3 years 2 months ago

It can and will happen, because they are young players. That’s what the vast majority of young players do.

If you have unreal expectations, you’re going to be let down.

-C

notsureifsrs
3 years 2 months ago

A+; would read again

MaineSox
3 years 2 months ago

Slow Clap

Mind telling that to Red Sox fans as well?

Me4mvp
3 years 2 months ago

What would it take for the fish to grab CarGo?

rundmc1981
3 years 2 months ago

Getting rid of The Idol in CF.

rsanchez1
3 years 2 months ago

Come on Loria, when you’ve only one 3 of your last 18 games, someone’s head has to roll. Seeing how you have Guillen on contract for three years, and how the bullpen has been imploding and hitting has been sleeping at the wheel, someone on the coaching staff needs to go.

cheez13
3 years 2 months ago

Why are the Braves so hesitant to start Medlen? The guy was a solid starter prior to TJ surgery and has pitched fine out of the pen. With Beachy out, I think Medlen would be their #3. I wanted him in the rotation from the start. The Braves were determined to start Minor regardless of performance. I don’t care if he is LH, you need the best 5 starters you can put on the field. Now, you can’t trade Minor because you wouldn’t get anything.

3 years 2 months ago

 And John Buck…

Amakiir
3 years 2 months ago

Filling a team with a bunch of really immature, high talent guys probably isn’t a good idea.

bobrewer
3 years 2 months ago

I say go big… Go Greinke.

We need an ace, not another mid-rotation starter.

rundmc1981
3 years 2 months ago

Only Braves fans would look past a nagging lat muscle injury and see the positives in paying full price for someone that might give you 8-10 starts.

esasc4
3 years 2 months ago

god i hope dempster doesnt come to atlanta! no upside to him being a brave. i prefer going for kennedy,saunders, wandy or vargas or richards. Dempster is injured, and he is and will be too expensive, we need to put some money in getting a bat!. swisher, quentin etc. save the most of our money for a run at bourn. 

rsanchez1
3 years 2 months ago

I’m sure Beinfest will be able to find a good outfielder a team is willing to give up for both Buck and Sanchez. Brett Hayes is a good enough replacement for John Buck primarily because Hayes will be cheap for the Marlins, and trading Buck on a contract they will probably be asked to pick up a contract for an incoming outfielder, plus Buck has no offense so it won’t make much of a difference who replaces him at catcher as long as they can actually catch, which Hayes can do. Trading Gaby with Buck will allow the Marlins to slot Morrison back into 1B when Bonifacio comes off the DL and they put him back in the lineup with whoever they acquire to play CF/LF.

Colin Christopher
3 years 2 months ago

So did Ben Zobrist.

3 years 2 months ago

 This. He’s struggled, which happens. Not saying he’s better or worse, but you can’t treat the preseason prospect list as gospel. For whatever reason, some prospects flourish and some struggle…for the Braves and everyone else.

-C