Red Sox Notes: Pitching, Morales

There's deep, multi-layered unhappiness among Red Sox players and staff, ESPN.com’s Buster Olney writes. Complaints are starting to spread across baseball and some within the Boston organization are already talking about looking for work elsewhere in the future, according to Olney. However, Olney points out that the Red Sox could win in spite of the bad energy, as the Yankees did in 1977-78. Here’s more detail on the 33-33 Red Sox…

  • The Red Sox are looking for a starting pitcher, according to Olney.
  • Franklin Morales has become a key contributor for the Red Sox after falling out of favor in Denver, as Alex Speier of WEEI.com explains. "We wanted to commit to turning him into a guy for us,” Boston GM Ben Cherington has said. Morales, who pitched effectively in a start against the Cubs last night, has a 3.14 ERA with 9.1 K/9 and 2.5 BB/9 in 28 2/3 innings this year.
  • Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports says the Red Sox can still win the AL East if they put Daniel Bard back in the bullpen, dump Kevin Youkilis sooner rather than later, acquire a starting pitcher and remain patient.


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52 Comments on "Red Sox Notes: Pitching, Morales"


Ben_Cherington
3 years 2 months ago

It doesnt matter if they are unhappy in the clubhouse.  They are professionals, go out and do your job!

stl_cards16
3 years 2 months ago

“They are professionals, go out and do your job!”

That’s what a lot of people are saying about you right now, Ben.

Ben_Cherington
3 years 2 months ago

I usually like your post, but this is ridiculous.  Please, give detailed examples of what he should do. 

stl_cards16
3 years 2 months ago

Wow, is this the real Ben Cherington?  haha  It was a joke because your name, nothing more.  In fact, I think he should do less than most Sox fans want him to do.  If he could add a nice MOR starter and they get healthy,  the Sox could easily make a run at the playoffs.

Ben_Cherington
3 years 2 months ago

HA, my apologies!

I thought you were serious.  Cherington has walked into a horrible situation.  No money, cry baby players, and tons of injuries.  So far, I have been pleased with what he has done. 

If we could add a starter, maybe go all in on Grienke if he will sign a contract, get healthy, and trade Youk then they could get back in the hunt.

At least my NL team is looking pretty good (cards).  I go to 5-10 games a yr in STL, and I really like this team. 

stl_cards16
3 years 2 months ago

“At least my NL team is looking pretty good (cards). I go to 5-10 games a yr in STL, and I really like this team.”

It’s been a rough couple weeks. They are going to have to go find some pitching from outside if they’re going to keep up with the Reds.  I’m not worried about the offense, it will be there.  But the pitching injuries are taking a toll.

Ben_Cherington
3 years 2 months ago

yeah, but every team goes through this.  They will turn it around.  It would have been nice to see Shleby Miller by now if he could have progressed the way he should have. 

stl_cards16
3 years 2 months ago

yeah, Miller had another rough start a Saturday.  He is looking bad right now.  Hopefully he can start to get it together soon.

YuppieScum
3 years 2 months ago

Greinke would melt under the Boston media spotlight. 

lefty177
3 years 2 months ago

Youk + for Greinke? I don’t remember but don’t the Brewers need a 1st baseman? Who’s their starting 1B right now?

Ben_Cherington
3 years 2 months ago

It all depends on what the Brewers are looking like in afew months, if they are in the hunt then they dont trade him, but if they do then:

youk, iglesias, Anderson, Nava, Ross (combination of guys)  But either way a deal could get done.  I think the sox have peices the Brewers could use down the road, but it would also depend on how well Greinke would do in Boston. 

ritz51
3 years 2 months ago

If Milwaukee is out of it, they won’t want anything with Youkilis. Nor anything to do with a failed 1B prospect who’s ceiling is basically Casey Kotchman, a 4th outfielder in Nava, or a mediocre corner outfielder in Ross who is under team control for only one more season.

Think Middlebrooks. Think Lavarnway. Even Bogaerts. Look at the massive hauls teams got last season for #1-2 starters. Unless the Sox fork over 2-3 top prospects Greinke, and any other “ace” on the market, isn’t coming to Boston.

Ben_Cherington
3 years 2 months ago

I obviously knew it would take a higher upside young talent, I was just naming some of the other players that could be included (add-ons). 

No way though is Middlebrooks in a deal for Grienke.  Thats a massive overpay for half a season. 

ritz51
3 years 2 months ago

There is a huge premium on starting pitching these days. Greinke, deservedly or not, has been given the title of “ace” which makes acquiring his services a little more expensive.

For comparisons sake, look at the Beltran deal last season. The Giants traded Wheeler, a consensus top-100 SP prospect, straight up for half a season of Carlos Beltran. Crazy? Yes, but that’s the market. And we’re talking about a fragile, 35 year old outfielder…not a 28 year old number one starter.

I don’t see Middlebrooks as an overpay (not suggesting that i’d make that deal) with the way the current market for top-shelf SP is set.

ColonelBoston
3 years 2 months ago

BC has nothing to do w/ the Sox’ probs. Theo left this team in such disarray with increasingly bad moves & F/A signings over the past 3 years that BC has no money to spent until 2014.

Hell, BC has already pulled multiple rabbits out of his hat — Padilla, Podsednik, Sweeney, Byrd (when he was here), etc. Add the outrageous number of injuries to his $$ constraints & tell me what can he do?

zak1993
3 years 2 months ago

The Real World: Boston

$6101468
3 years 2 months ago

I could care less about the “toxic” clubhouse.  If I’m a player I do my job and hope I do it well since if I don’t my value decreases.  Likewise if my team does well it also has the potential to reflect on a contract.

Youk’s problem is he’s done.  This is now three years of a downward trend. Just watch him in the field. He just isn’t that fluid anymore. Youk may be a disliked player in the Boston clubhouse and among other teams but the man has always played the game hard – maybe too hard and it has taken a toll.  IMO his value is minimal. Sox would have to present a nice package of other players and a boat load of salary to get anything in return.

stl_cards16
3 years 2 months ago

I think Youk’s problem is that he isn’t a 3B and he can’t handle it over there at all anymore.  If a team like the Pirates or Dodgers that can play him at 1B everyday picks him up, I think he will still put up very good offensive numbers.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 2 months ago

I could care less about the “toxic” clubhouse.  If I’m a player I do my
job and hope I do it well since if I don’t my value decreases.  Likewise
if my team does well it also has the potential to reflect on a
contract.

Generally speaking, teams perform better when they get along. Clubhouse chemistry is an important part of success. It’s not THE most important, but you look at the teams that have been successful lately (2011 Cardinals, 2010 Giants, 2009 Yankees, 2008 Phillies, etc) those teams had great chemistry.

MaineSox
3 years 2 months ago

Generally speaking, team chemistry is super overrated.  Players getting along well and having fun comes from winning ballgames, not the other way around.

johnsilver
3 years 2 months ago

 Weeee.. Tell that to the late 70’s Sox who didn’t get along and went on 7+ game winning streaks, then would lose 5 in a row, or the Billy Martin managed NYY that always despised and fought each other.. Both verbally and physically. LOL

 There doesn’t have to be much chemistry perhaps to win, but it sure helps in the eyes of us fans an awful lot, or at least the right type of manager who knows how to use chemistry that does not match up exactly correct.

I do agree with ya though.. Teams getting along makes things “sail” soo much smoother along. I do think some managers prefer a bit of chaos and Bobby v is one of those managers.

Havok9120
3 years 2 months ago

 The two most inflammatory clubs that Martin managed won the World Series twice and completely crushed the AL for 3 years….

I understand what you’re saying, and I think chemistry can be very helpful to a team. But it really isn’t all that important if you’ve got the right people.

johnsilver
3 years 2 months ago

That was my point and having someone who can “control” it and are in their environment with that kind of chemistry.. As was Billy martin and valentine.. It may not be a problem..

Don Zimmer on the other hand.. The Sox manager in the late 70’s was without a clue…

Edit:

My point on martin? he would start talking out of his head in the press (more than normal) if things got bad, start another tiff with Steinbrenner, or get into fisticuffs with someone.. Maybe even start some argument over nothing with Reggie jackson, where he knew georgie would back jackson and then the team would get fired up and roll of 8+ wins in a row if the Yanks were losing.. THAT was how they got going and how he motivated them.. They didn’t get along and many on that team despised martin.

players despised Zimmer also, but they were not afraid of him and laughed at him instead for the “penguin” he was.. it was up to the players themselves to get themselves going and win games.. Zimmer just occupied a manger’s position in name only.

stl_cards16
3 years 2 months ago

I think it’s just as much the other way around, too.  I’m not saying a lot of the players aren’t close to start with.  But when you get on one of the magical runs it brings everyone together. 

If the Red Sox went on a run and won 23 out of 25, I bet we’d be hearing stories about how well the clubhouse is coming together.

MaineSox
3 years 2 months ago

That’s already happened once this year actually.  When they went on that stretch that got them out of last place for a while there were articles about how they were starting to gel and the new guys were starting to fit in better and all that.  Now they go on a losing streak and suddenly there’s a “toxic atmosphere” in the clubhouse…

$6101468
3 years 2 months ago

 Or the A’s of the 70s.  Chemistry meant crap to those characters. Only constant was they hated Charlie O. Then there were the NYY of the 50s.  Had some real issues with a division on those clubs of Party guys and straight arrows.

johnsilver
3 years 2 months ago

 Yes.. Charlie “O” another good example.. As was some of Bill Veeck’s (pick one) teams owned.. Like when he made the ChiSox wear shorts and try to slide????

ColonelBoston
3 years 2 months ago

Oh my god! I agree w/ Ken Rosenthal — I’m so ashamed of myself. 

The Red Sox are a mess & it’s because too many of the players refuse to adapt & want to remain in the do-what-we-want-to Tito way. Sorry boys, it hasn’t worked in years; as a matter of fact, it keeps getting worse.

The Sox need to do do more than dump Youk, they need an entire roster overhaul — anyone to set in the old ways (I’m looking at you, Beckett), needs to go. And I know this isn’t going to be popular, but Pedrioa needs to be set straight. His relationship w/ Tito & unwillingness to be open minded about Bobby V is, imo, the foundation of a lot what’s killing this team. The team goes as Pedroia goes, that’s what they say, right?…

redsox927
3 years 2 months ago

I wonder what the “unhappiness” is about?  If it is simply that Bobby V is more of a hard *** than Tito; then the folks that want to find work elsewhere should go ahead and do so.  I’m the biggest Sox fan there is, and honestly i think Bobby V is doing a fine job… so what if there are changes in the way things are run… Tito was a softy and for the most part did a great job and got 2 rings & a heck of an 8 or so year run. Ive got a ton of respect and appreciation for what he did…..
Bobby V has his own way of doing things, and if the folks doing the hiring thought another “players manager” type was the man for the job; Dale Sveum would have been offered and would have accepted the job weeks before Bobby V was offered it… If you are a professional player, coach, trainer, front office employee, or grounds keeper and your “unhappy” b/c of a management change; move on to greener pastures.

MaineSox
3 years 2 months ago

 “I wonder what the “unhappiness” is about?”

Losing.

redsox927
3 years 2 months ago

what an incredibly whitty and thought provoking reply……

MaineSox
3 years 2 months ago

I wasn’t trying to be witty or thought provoking, it’s simply the truth; they are unhappy because they are losing, if they were winning everything would be fine.

hawkny1
3 years 2 months ago

If it is true that Larry Lucchino and Theo Epstein were constantly at odds, they probably created two camps among the front office staff and, probably, in the clubhouse.  Once Theo and his manager, Francona, exited the scene, Theo’s followers have probably been pushed to the margins, ever be it so slowly to avoid disruptions.  The dynamics of organizational change often lead to disaffected people becoming unhappy.  We have seen it on the field, early on this season, and, in all likelihood, it is bubbling to the surface upstairs, behind the scenes.  

Rangersalchamps
3 years 2 months ago

Lmao! Make a run at the playoffs? When will the Orioles start getting credit for what they are doing this year? Quite impressive, yet sport anaylist/ writers continue to write about the RS. It would be crazy if the Yanks, Orioles and Rays all make the playoffs

MaineSox
3 years 2 months ago

4 Games out of the wildcard spot with 3 1/2 months left to play?  Yeah, no way they can make that up…

Ben_Cherington
3 years 2 months ago

Im not sure why they even play the games!

Karkat
3 years 2 months ago

What’s that? There’s less than a month to play and the Cardinals are 8.5 games out of the Wild Card? Well, maybe next year…

stl_cards16
3 years 2 months ago

While the Orioles have been impressive, the Red Sox have played basically all year without a starting outfielder and they are still only like 4 games out of the playoffs.  It’s going to be a tight race to the end.  Hopefully the Orioles hang in there.

Ben_Cherington
3 years 2 months ago

hopefully not. 

MaineSox
3 years 2 months ago

Also, it’s kinda hard to really buy into the Orioles being the #2 team in the AL East when they have the worst run differential in the division.  Run differential obviously isn’t a perfect indicator, but it’s extremely uncommon to maintain the worst run differential in your division and stay anywhere near the top of the division.

stl_cards16
3 years 2 months ago

What about if you have the best run differntial in the League and you are 3rd in your division?  haha

MaineSox
3 years 2 months ago

Luckily for the Cardinals (and to a lesser extent the Red Sox) that’s also not likely to hold up.

johnsilver
3 years 2 months ago

 Watch some of their games Maine.. I have.. They have “Cinderella” written all over them and no glass slippers on the horizon.. They just keep pulling rabbits out of the hat.. It’s amazing how this team is winning.. Like 2012 is destined to be THE YEAR OF the O’s or something..

Not so sure now that Duquette isn’t purposely avoiding shoring up that team to avoid breaking whatever magic they have going on, cause they definately have a rotational hole, as well as at 3b and a couple of injuries, but it just seems like people keep stepping up and doing the job for them regardless and maybe he thinks bringing someone in will shatter the mirror..

redsox927
3 years 2 months ago

The Sox are going to be fine… consider:

-the top 2 relievers from 2011 are no longer in your bullpen (one on another team, the other in rotation then in AAA)
 
-replacement closer lands on DL a handful of days B4 the start of the season, therefore you are forced to use a reliever who has never closed before.
 
-you have 2 all star outfielders who haven’t played all year (yes ellsbury played a few games, but lets be honest….)

There is nobody that can convince me that this is not a playoff team considering all of the above. (according to 2011’s lineup)Their #1 hitter is out, #2 is struggling, #3 is struggling, #4 is terrible thus far, Ortiz is great, Crawford is out as well… A healthy lineup of Ellsbury, Crawford, Pedroia, Ortiz, Gonzalez, Middlebrooks, Salty, Ross, Aviles with a little consistantcy from the rotation for most of July thru the rest of the season will be JUST what the doctor ordered… Adding Bailey back as your closer, putting Bard back into the 8th and Aceves, Padilla, Atchison, Miller, Albers and others filling out the pen and all of a sudden you have a pretty formidable team for last half of the season… If they get solid pitching from the top 4 in the rotation and the ppl that should come off the DL do come off the DL, there is no reason this team can’t go 50 and 25 from July 15th on.

And if that happens, they end up a 92 to 94 win team and get to the playoffs all of a sudden Bobby V is the manager of the F’n year…

dc21892
3 years 2 months ago

They need to play .600 ball to do that. That’s asking a lot, even if healthy. Playoff team, yes, but 90+ wins? That’s probably a stretch.

Karkat
3 years 2 months ago

They had 90 wins last year despite going 9-30 between 4/5-4/15 and 9/1-9/28 by going 81-42 in between there. 81-42 is .659 ball. Last year they sustained that pace over a 123-game stretch until the collapse. We’re asking them to play .600 over their remaining 96 games? That’s 57-39. More than doable, especially in comparison.

Mike1L
3 years 2 months ago

I realize this may sound like a cynical Yankee fan, but the Red Sox are going to be fine, dysfunctional or not.  They still have a lot of talent, I’m not all all convinced that Crawford is the dud people make him out to be, the injuries will heal, and there’s the second wild card spot for a little extra give.  Valentine is actually a very smart guy and good manager (not a likeable guy, but talented).  It’s way too early to throw in the towel.

hawkny1
3 years 2 months ago

I agree. A whole lot can happen in the 96 games yet to be played.

Leonard Washington
3 years 2 months ago

We are still very much in the hunt and we have yet to be at full strength. Lester and Buc finally seem to have come around, hopefully Adrian will to. Having Beckett, Crawford, Ross, and Ellsbury back will obviously help tremendously. Staying cool, not hitting the panic button. We got a lot of baseball to play.

Justanotherfantoo
3 years 2 months ago

It’s all about health.  Add back Ellsbury and Crawford and good breaks health wise in the rest of the lineup and there’s no reason in the world why the Red Sox couldn’t win the AL East and the World Series.

That said, it’s hard to be optimistic on the injury/recovery front.  But anything could happen — including the injury bug biting the Yankees and Rays harder.  Absent the injury bug, there’s ENORMOUS talent on this team.

Justanotherfantoo
3 years 2 months ago

I meant to say good breaks health wise in the lineup AND the rotation.  Needless to say, absent a spate of injuries to the Yankees and the Rays, it looks like the Red Sox will need both to win the AL East.

conquerbeard
3 years 2 months ago

No need to get violent