Red Sox Notes: Valentine, Henry, Cherington

Yesterday, Alex Speier of WEEI.com wrote that the Red Sox should act quickly on Bobby Valentine, a manager who no longer seems to be emotionally invested in his team.  Here's today's news on the situation in Boston..

  • Valentine's recent attitude change is a result of the fact that he and Cherington are now evaluating the team differently, writes the Boston Herald's Scott Lauber. Following the team's blockbuster trade, Cherington is focused on the long-term while Valentine's success as a manager is tied to the current on-field product. Lauber quotes Cherington: “When the manager is in the middle of it every day and he’s the one who has to answer the questions after the game every day, it’s hard … I don’t know how I’d react if I was in that position. I’ve never done it. I can imagine it’s tough.”
  • Owner John Henry and General Manager Ben Cherington are set to meet the club in Seattle as they get set to take on the Mariners this afternoon, writes Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald.  Silverman wonders if this could be the end of Valentine's tenure with the club as the team continues to struggle and the skipper appears to have grown tired of the drama.
  • Meanwhile, in an email to Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com, Henry insisted that he is not in Seattle to fire Valentine.  A team source also said that Valentine's future would not be addressed until the season is through.  Edes notes that when Henry fired Terry Francona and Grady Little, both were dismissed after the season.
  • The Red Sox have been hearing from player representatives in the last week who are upset with how their clients have been utilized, tweets Buster Olney of ESPN.com.
  • Valentine can't be blamed for all of the Red Sox's troubles this season, but it's hard to argue that he has put them in a better position to win, writes Brian MacPherson of The Providence Journal.  MacPherson writes that Valentine hasn't been communicating with half of his coaching staff and hasn't had a great deal of dialogue with most of his players lately.


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114 Comments on "Red Sox Notes: Valentine, Henry, Cherington"


2 years 11 months ago

Good bye Valentine and welcome back Sweet Caroline.

Guest
2 years 11 months ago

LOL. This team won’t be winning for a long time, and that’s assuming a whole lot of “ifs” break the right way for them. And all of that is assuming that Henry decides to reinvest the money he just saved in the Dodgers trade. why would he with an insubordinate clubhouse and an ungrateful, fairweather fan base.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

It’s because of the money (and roster space) they saved in the Dodger trade that the team will be winning again soon. Henry and co didn’t spend over a half a billion dollars on the team in the last three years because they didn’t care about winning, and they aren’t going to cheap out on the team now (in part because of the “fairweather” fans – if they don’t even appear to be trying to win no one is going to show up and they’ll start losing money, it’s pretty simple to figure out).

Guest
2 years 11 months ago

The players and fans have created a toxic culture surrounding this ballclub and devalued it substantially. You need to step out of your shoes as a Red Sox fan for a moment and consider how the rest of the baseball community feels about the team right now. It’s really an embarrassment. Henry’s lost the money already as far as I’m concerned, and I strongly doubt he’ll reinvest. If I recall, you were one of the guys ridiculing me when I was predicting a month ago that Gonzalez and Beckett needed to be traded. Consider this another prediction.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

If he’s not going to reinvest then he’s selling the team, there’s no way he can keep the team and not reinvest the money, he’d literally lose tens of millions of dollars every single year.

They likely won’t (and shouldn’t) reinvest it all this offseason, but they aren’t just going to be a mid-level payroll team going forward.

notsureifsrs
2 years 11 months ago

i don’t generally read the articles posted here, but the silverman piece is worth skimming. in particular:

Henry said one employee, Bill James, a senior adviser to the team, is
going to start playing a more important role in the process.

In explaining why, he also gave a vote of confidence to Cherington.

“No, none of us are satisfied with the vetting process and it’s
something we have been discussing this year consistently.” “One of
(the) biggest issues we’ve had is that Bill James was a great resource
for us but fell out of favor over the last few years for reasons I
really don’t understand. We’ve gotten him more involved recently in the
central process and that will help greatly.

this is fantastic news

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Yeah it is, I almost never read that stuff, so I’m glad you did, and I’m glad you said something. I’ll have to go read it, thanks.

ADD: I just read it; that really is awesome news. Bill James is a baseball genius, so getting him more involved is never a bad thing, and I like that they are talking about adding more to the vetting process (I don’t remember now where I read it, but I read somewhere that they are going to add more people to both the minor league and major league scouting departments and do more cross checking, which is never a bad thing either).

melonis_rex
2 years 11 months ago

Because Henry will lose far more money that way.

The Boston media will rip him apart if major moves aren’t made this offseason to push the team back to contention in 2013(I’m not saying that’s the right move, but its what the media will do).

johnsilver
2 years 11 months ago

If the NYT would **finally** fold and take all of it’s other polluted rags with it?? We wouldn’t be getting half the worthless articles regarding NE sports teams as most of the rumor (false) mill comes from the Globe anyway.

One can only cross their fingers…

Just_Da_damaja
2 years 11 months ago

reading these articles…Tito has to be laughing somewhere

Ben_Cherington
2 years 11 months ago

I will always miss Tito. I wish more than anything he could come back.

Michael
2 years 11 months ago

Like going back to a spouse that betrayed you. Can you go back? Sure. Will it be awkward? Oh, yeah.

notsureifsrs
2 years 11 months ago

that you betrayed*

Ben_Cherington
2 years 11 months ago

As notsureifsrs already stated, Tito did not betray the Red Sox….I think it was the other way around

Michael
2 years 11 months ago

That’s actually what I meant. There’s too much bad blood with the way they handled his (Tito’s) situation. Even if Lucchino, Ben, etc. all got together with Francona it just wouldn’t work. Scars don’t heal.

Justin Lindsay
2 years 11 months ago

I doubt Tito is laughinig. He loves the team too much to do any laughing. Maybe crying for them but not laughing.

beisbolista
2 years 11 months ago

No, he’s definitely laughing. If he’s crying at all, it’s for Bobby Valentine, who is getting the same terrible treatment he did.

notsureifsrs
2 years 11 months ago

valentine doesn’t deserve much better. francona did

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

I’m convinced beisbolista is Valentine.

notsureifsrs
2 years 11 months ago

they’re cut from the same cloth, i’ll give you that. but if you check out his last ~50 comments on this site, you’ll see what his purpose here is

Guest
2 years 11 months ago

Haha and what might that be?

beisbolista
2 years 11 months ago

Well then, frankly, you Red Sox fans should have given him better. The main reason he and the club parted ways is that you fans couldn’t stomach that collapse last year and pressured the front office to make a move. There was no humility from the fan base and no gratitude for the good times. Part of being a world-class team is enduring the bad times, and the Red Sox fans couldn’t do so in this case. In the process, they created pressure and inspired the toxicity that now surrounds the entire franchise, the same pressure and toxicity that caused Francona to leave.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

You don’t know what you’re talking about, nobody in Boston (at least the fans) wanted Francona gone, everybody loved him and most people were mad at ownership for letting him go.

Odawg8
2 years 11 months ago

What are you talking about? Last fall all anyone in Boston could talk about was how Francona had lost the clubhouse and how he needed to go. Everyone was singing Valentine’s praises and saying how his old-school style was exactly what Boston needed.

notsureifsrs
2 years 11 months ago

they talked like that after francona was already fired and seventeen stories were published claiming francona had lost the clubhouse and had to go

halflink123
2 years 11 months ago

They were right then, though. It’s clear that Boston needed a change. It wasn’t Francona’s fault but the club needs to get back to basics: young, homegrown players that play to win and not to feed their egos. It’s paramount that the Red Sox players learn to put the team first and themselves second. Finally I believe Valentine is an excellent manager and if his hiring precipitated the infusion of young talent into the team, all the better for the long term health of the franchise. That guys like Iglesias, etc. are playing instead of Punto already shows that the franchise has grown by leaps and bounds.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

I’ve literally never talked to a single Red Sox fan who actually says that. I think you’re confusing the Boston media with actual fans of the team.

Guest
2 years 11 months ago

You and others here misunderstand me. During that collapse there was such pressure and bad sport from Red Sox fans that the front office felt obligated to make some kind of a move. The move they made was to let Terry Francona go. I’m not saying it’s the move Red Sox fans wanted, but really, if they had taken a moment to think it was the only possible move. There was no way the team would fire Theo or Lucchino. And there was no way they’d be able to fire any of Terry’s coaching staff without losing him too. He was the only option for Henry to let loose, and the Red Sox fans pushed his hand because they just could not tolerate one bad year. Every problem that exists with the team now has ensued. And to be clear the Red Sox are to blame for most of it, whether they are willing to take any responsibility or not.

2 years 11 months ago

i never wanted francona gone. i was really quit pissed off when it happened…just like i was pissed when theo left..bad contracts and all. with theo you could see what he was trying to do..did he know crawford and lackey would get hurt? that the entire team would get hurt? the team he put together looked legendary on paper.

Guest
2 years 11 months ago

Valentine is a good coach but that Red Sox thing was doomed from the start, no one outside of the owner wanted him to be hired and once he was he was instantly cut off from everyone, coaches, GM, fans, etc.. it’s party his fault for taking a job like that and not knowing enough to turn it down

Guest
2 years 11 months ago

This is just about right in my opinion. Well said.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Valentine is not a good coach. The team had issue to begin with, that’s a given, and it was possibly even doomed from the start, but there was nothing good going to come from putting Valentine in charge (he’s not just another problematic personality in the clubhouse, he’s the worst one of the bunch).

2 years 11 months ago

I’m sure the guy is a good coach. There’s a difference between coaching baseball and managing millionaire ballplayers in Boston. He has not done a good job of managing the team.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

I don’t see how he can be a good coach when he wont even talk to half the players on the team.

2 years 11 months ago

Big ego. I guess I was trying to give him some credit for his career and baseball knowledge. I agree that he can’t get along.

EarlyMorningBoxscore
2 years 11 months ago

Hopefully this will show management that they need to let Ben choose the manager. Obviously Valentine was not the best choice for this team.

beisbolista
2 years 11 months ago

Valentine has been excellent under the circumstances. He has been ostracized and marginalized by an insubordinate and uncooperative clubhouse, abused by an ungrateful and fairweather fan base, and left out to dry by a front office that is just glad they are not sharing in the blame.

There are a lot of things wrong with this franchise right now, but not nearly all of it is Valentine’s fault. If Valentine is a major of the problem now it is because everyone has made him that by pointing fingers at him and dragging him into conflict.

EarlyMorningBoxscore
2 years 11 months ago

Part of the managers job is to get the best he can out of his players and the other coaches around him. He doesn’t talk to half of his coaching staff, and now he is losing dialogue with his players. Not exactly doing his job now is he?

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Is that you Bobby?

Seriously, he single handedly ran Youkilis out of town, bad mouthed him to the media, let players find out their roles and whether they were playing or not through the media instead of actually talking to them, he refuses to talk to the other coaches on the team, marginalized their pitching coach from day 1, aggravated and singled out not only the team’s best players, but the ones who were never a problem before (Pedroia and Gonzalez), is punishing Aceves by overusing him (to the point of potentially threatening the future of his career), and all of that on top of just plain bad managing.

beisbolista
2 years 11 months ago

Pedroia, Gonzalez, and Youkilis (among others) have all been a problem ever since Francona left. They began punishing Valentine from day one for not being Terry Francona. Valentine never had to single any of them out. Those players led the charge in a whisper campaign against Valentine, holding secret meetings, complaining about him openly to the press, and doing their utmost to persuade the team’s executives to fire him. As for difficulties between Valentine and a coaching staff he didn’t hire, or the refusal of certain players to give him any respect whatsoever… I don’t see any reason why he should be seeking their counsel. The players have a pretty simple job to do. Hit the ball, field the ball, and throw the ball when Valentine assigns them to go on to the field, and keep their mouths shut when they are off the field. They don’t need Valentine to hold their hands to do that, and if they are not doing that (which they are not), it is most certainly not Bobby Valentine’s fault. Find another scapegoat. and that goes for @EarlyMorningBoxscore as well.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Bobby had already driven Youkilis out of town before the “whisper campaign” started, and one of the first things that happened this season was him calling out Youkilis to the media about not caring about the game (which was a load of bull, you don’t swear and throw things every time you strike out if you don’t care about the game). Even way back in spring training there were stories about Bobby refusing to talk to Aviles. Valentine hired all of his own coaching staff other than the pitching coach, and the pitching coach wasn’t the only guy he won’t talk to, plus if Bobby is so immature that he can’t talk to someone (for the good of the team) just because his feelings are hurt about not being able to hire who he wanted then that’s just another reason he needs to go.

This isn’t all about Bobby, it’s about the Red Sox, it’s about the fans, and it’s about winning; the only one of those things that Bobby ever cared about was himself.

beisbolista
2 years 11 months ago

If that were true about Valentine, he never would have been hired a second time in MLB. Let alone again and again and again. It’s not like word travels slow in the baseball community.

notsureifsrs
2 years 11 months ago

that is the most illogical statement i’ve seen this week

“if yuniesky betancourt was so bad, teams wouldn’t have signed him again and again and again. it’s not like word travels slow in the baseball community”

beisbolista
2 years 11 months ago

Obviously Yuniesky Betancourt is not so bad. If there is someone who sees enough potential in him to keep giving him opportunities, then clearly he is not that bad. Major League Baseball teams don’t just give away free money. If there’s someone on the roster, there’s a reason.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

It is true, and people have been saying it about him since before he was hired (they were saying it about him last time someone was talking about hiring him as a manager), Bobby thinks he’s a rock star, and he needs to be in all the headlines.

There’s a reason he couldn’t get a job in the majors for over a decade, and there’s a reason he’s been fired from literally every single managerial job he’s ever had (the Rangers fired him, then the Chiba Lotte Marines fired him, then the Mets fired him, then the Marines fired him a second time for good measure).

notsureifsrs
2 years 11 months ago

you are just making things up again. the “campaign” against him was not immediate; it was the result of his actions – primarily getting youkilis shipped out

the season isn’t his fault, but he is awful. that’s something most people already knew before he got the job. he isn’t a good manager and he wasn’t a good manager in boston

should the players have taken it as far as they did? probably not. but don’t try to rewrite the story. they took it that far after valentine valentine’d things up

beisbolista
2 years 11 months ago

I think your timeline is off, but either way, Youkilis needed to be shipped out. Valentine has been the catalyst for removing the cancer from the Red Sox clubhouse. I disagree with MaineSox that the Red Sox will be a winning team soon, but I think this clearing out he facilitated has at least created opportunity for a club in bad condition, assuming Henry is willing to reinvest.

2 years 11 months ago

I don’t think Bobby’s plan was to lose games so they could trade away those contracts. It is the best of a bad situation, not what they brought him in for. It is one possitive to take from a wasted year.

2 years 11 months ago

I get it, you like Bobby V, but if he were the manager you say he is none of this would be an issue. He took the job in Boston following the collapse of last season, and didn’t get results. The previous commenters have pointed out the bad decisions he made and the bridges he has burned. If he chose to handle things differently, they wouldn’t be talking points, and this conversation doesn’t happen. Bobby took it on, and failed. He’s not a scapegoat for the losing record; he’s just not doing a good job managing the team.

Karkat
2 years 11 months ago

Even if most of what you said were true, it’s the manager’s job to create cohesion. It’s the manager’s job to sustain dialogue in the clubhouse. And it’s the manager’s job to be the responsible, bigger person if there is any kind of bad blood.

halflink123
2 years 11 months ago

Wake up the Red Sox had a lot of problems, they could only be swept under the rug for so long. Guess what if they have horrible defense and mediocre effort from the pitching staff that’s not the manager’s fault.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

I know they already had problems, and I’ve acknowledged so more than once already, but Bobby wasn’t a fit for the team (in large part precisely because of those existing problems), and he’s actively made the issues worse.

halflink123
2 years 11 months ago

I support Bobby V 100%. I think actually the front office does, too. Notice who Cherington shipped out of Boston first: Youkilis, Beckett, Gonzalez, Crawford…not Valentine. Obviously it remains to be seen how long he stays in Boston. However, it’s clear to me that the club house was a bunch of overpaid, high ego maniacs who really didn’t care about winning. Regardless whether you like your manager or not, you’re at least supposed to fall in line and give him a shot. It’s clear who ran the show in Boston – the underperforming players, and they’ve been shipped out. I thought from about 1/4 way through the season that the Sox needed to blow up their roster and start fresh and, regardless of their record this year and the next, I believe in the long run it’s great for the team. I think the Red Sox always thought they were too good for Bobby V and it’s a shame they never even game him a real chance.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Youkilis was never a “problem” until Bobby came along, and Gonzalez and Crawford still weren’t a problem, so your entire premise is faulty to begin with. Also, the deal with the Dodgers was brought up by the Dodgers (not the Red Sox) and was way too good to pass up regardless of if anyone involved was a problem in the clubhouse.

It’s also pretty telling that they keep giving “no comments” when it comes to Bobby’s future, and have gone as far as saying that the season didn’t go anywhere near as well as they had hoped when asked about Valentine (you don’t say that about the season when you are asked about the manager if there’s not supposed to be some sort of message there – they weren’t asked anything about the season).

PWNdroia
2 years 11 months ago

You don’t know that for sure. Remember that time when Youkilis was arguing with Manny Ramirez back in the day? Obviously there was hostility between the two then. Youkilis is hot-headed, and maybe he wasn’t the source of the problem, but either way it was time for him to go.

The deal was not because of Dodgers approaching the Red Sox. The deal only worked because the Red Sox placed Gonzalez on waivers, so that’s the only reason a deal started. And ultimately a deal is a two-way process.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Ramirez was pushing 80 year old clubhouse attendants to the ground, I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say that Manny was probably the problem in that situation. And the deal was 100% because of the Dodgers approaching the Red Sox, the Red Sox obviously had to agree with it, but it was totally the Dodgers idea (the Dodgers owner approached Henry with the idea of Gonzalez and Beckett, Henry originally said no, then the Dodgers owner added Crawford to the deal and Henry changed his mind).

PWNdroia
2 years 11 months ago

You’re probably right that Manny was the problem there, but either way, Youkilis is hot-headed and I can see him starting problems. By the way he was playing here, he didn’t want to stay. I’m not saying Valentine wasn’t the reason Youk left, but I’m not saying he was the reason either. I don’t think we know the whole story. But it was Pedro that pushed the 80 year old guy down.

As for the trade, I’d like to see a source that proves this. All I know is Red Sox placed Gonzalez on waivers and then the Dodgers jumped on it. Personally, I think it was better he’s gone as he’s claimed signing in Boston was a mistake afterward. Still, I’ve not heard anything stating that the Dodgers initiated the trade, but either way the argument is frivolous. Both teams agreed on the trade, so it worked.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Pedro knocked over an 80 year old manager who was charging him like a bull, Manny pushed over an 80 year old clubhouse attendant (google “manny ramirez pushed mccormick” – it was actually a 60 year old man, not 80, but same deal). As far as a source for the Dodgers deal just google “anatomy of a megadeal.”

PWNdroia
2 years 11 months ago

I don’t agree in 100% support of Valentine, however I agree with most of what you say. I believe the players made the problem worse for Valentine. Ultimately it was the players who caused us to replace Francona in the first place. I’m glad we blew up this team too- it was almost too late.

ugotrpk3113
2 years 11 months ago

It really wasn’t all Valentine’s fault. But he was a terrible choice and a terrible fit from day 1. They need to fire him now and see what they get from Bogar (if he’s a permanent option).

feathers
2 years 11 months ago

Please end this act of the drama that is the Red Sox. It is in no way good for the organization, the team or the fans. The sooner Valentine is gone and order is restored to the team the better it will be for baseball as a whole.

2 years 11 months ago

Henry may have fired Grady and Francona after the season, but he also fired John Boles during the season (sorry Red Sox fans, but stuff does happen outside your little bubble)

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

I don’t believe you.

2 years 11 months ago

Valentine probably wants out early so he can go back to ESPN, meanwhile the red sox will start negotiations with TBS broadcasters Dennis Eckersley, Cal Ripken, and/or former cardinals and a’s coach Tony LaRussa.

notsureifsrs
2 years 11 months ago

i love eck, but wouldn’t want him running the show (if only because i’d miss his commentary)

but as long as we’re talking about unrealistic managers, i’d vote for schilling

johnsilver
2 years 11 months ago

LOLOL. YOU said it there NSF. Eck is priceless on commentary. When remy was out, it was like.. Who cares really and I like remy in the color spot, but Eck has sooo man “eco-nism’s” he uses on TV.

I kept waiting for him to bring out the old “That was an “upper’deckersley” he used to recite when he gave up a towering shot from his playing days.. But never did hear him repeat that one last time Remy was out.

johnsilver
2 years 11 months ago

Wonder who will be the next scape goat after Valentine and Joe Morgan have been characterized in Boston as? Francona’s leftover issues led to many, yet Valentine catches the heat.

Go ahead and hire some namby pamby to baby sit. There is no long standing Minor league manager any more like the team used to keep that has great respect, such as a Rac Slider, Joe Morgan.. The team can’t keep them employed long enough now.

I suggested bringing in Dwight Evans (if he would be willing) earlier and maybe even old coach Tommy Harper if they can’t let Valentine stay on until Farrell finishes his contract. There isn’t one coach currently employed by the team that is management material, nor were any under Francona, with the exception of Farrell.

Bob Geren might be able to get some discipline from the team, then he has it pretty good as a job with the Cubs an announcer and might not be willing to step back into the fire again.

My thinking is they will end up with some pushover, much like Francona evolved into and form a buddies list quickly.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Valentine isn’t a scape goat, he’s a legitimate issue and should have never been hired (I’m certain you remember me saying before the season that this would happen pretty much exactly the way it has – it’s not like nobody saw this coming).

johnsilver
2 years 11 months ago

Yes, I remember you not wanting him originally and many in Boston with that same thinking.. I have wanted Valentine in Boston for a couple of years, before Francona was even fired even. he didn’t act decisively when he had the chance and when he 1st did publicly (Youk incident) got cut at the knees by a player of all things, not management and management never backed him up.

Wasn’t stern, repairing of management the main reason Valentine was hired all along? if they were going to hire someone like that and THEN not publicly back him up when even one of the top players speak back regarding an issue Valentine has, it is trouble in the making, if not too late and IMO, Valentine was in for trouble at that spot on. The meeting with players going over his head and not being rebuffed. The way Valentine has still played with Aceves by allowing him to close a game immediately after he came off of the suspension.

I disagree with Rex below also (not wanting to create another post) as Valentine is a good tactical manager, that was not questioned.. Ever.. it has been his attitude and publicly speaking out that has/was put him on some kind of non written “hit” list.

Geren’s use of the BP? Never stopped Dusty Baker from getting a job did it? I always thought geren was one of the smarter players in the game throughout his career and eventually become a manager. you have to admit and not hammering on the A’s here that some of the teams he had were not flush with talent and he was trying to win.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Management shouldn’t have backed him on that (in fact, I think they should have come out and said, flat out, that it was wrong of him to do that), it was childish, counter productive, and damaging to the team as a whole and to their chances of making things better in Boston (he also should have been called about by a veteran player on the team like Pedroia). There is a huge difference between stern managing, and stirring the pot and acting like a child. If you want to know what real, stern managment is like look at Jim Leyland, Charlie Manuel, or even Buck Showalter (I might not agree with the in game managing of those guys all the time, but they are legitimate tough managers), Bobby V isn’t one of those guys – his style of calling players out in the media (and not just any media, but the viscous Boston media), ostracizing and ignoring players, and not communicating with other coaches or the team in general has nothing to do with stern management.

johnsilver
2 years 11 months ago

We don’t know some parts also.. he actually *might* have tried face to face with Youk 1st.

hey.. I’ll take Jimmy Leyland all day long if he’ll come over.. Bostonians have a bloody fit when they see cigarette smoke coming out of the dugout maybe, or some dolt writer see him smoking in the clubhouse.. Then Jimmy has guts and might tell ’em off.

Trader Jack mckeon u left out also, but he is near 80..

U named off all the old schooler’s there.. Notice that? Have severe doubt any will ever manage again once current employment ends and its a shame.. WHERE are the replacements for these guys??

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

I think the fact that they are old school types and tough management style is a coincidence, and there are likely some more new school guys who are tougher style managers as well (I’m also not convinced that tough management is what this team needs anyway, but that’s another issue).

I honestly don’t really care if he tried face to face with Youkilis first (and he reportedly didn’t), you still don’t take it to the media like that. If that’s the only course of action you know how to make work you aren’t a good enough manager and shouldn’t have the job – it’s that simple.

johnsilver
2 years 11 months ago

“, you still don’t take it to the media like that”

Valentine has a complete and total history of doing just that is the thing.. it was known all along he would bring issues to the media.

We just disagree on that case being any different, as well as Valentine being the correct choice in general as many Boston fans do.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

No, I don’t think it’s any different, the fact that he has a history of doing that is one of the biggest reasons I knew he wouldn’t be good for Boston and didn’t want him anywhere near the team.

Guest
2 years 11 months ago

This is excellent. Well said.

melonis_rex
2 years 11 months ago

Bob Geren is just as bad, if not worse, of a tactical manager as Valentine.

And his bullpen usage (overusage in a noncontending season) probably contributed to actually blowing out two very good-elite relief arms.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

I’d fire Valentine and give Beyeler the job for the rest of the year and see where it goes (it would have been nice to do it earlier in the season to get a better feel for Beyeler as a manager, but there’s nothing you can do about that now).

jgmaynard
2 years 11 months ago

Tek might make an awesome manager for Boston…

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Someday maybe, but not now. Not while the team is still full of the guys he played with.

dc21892
2 years 11 months ago

I said this two weeks ago and someone ripped me a new one

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Well, they were wrong. There’s no way he should be managing a group of guys he used to be teammates with, especially since he was supposed to be part of the problem and one of the biggest instigators in the whole “chicken and beer” bullcrap last year.

dc21892
2 years 11 months ago

And I agree, which is valid enough a reason with what you said. Not sure why the person who blasted me thought it would be a good thing

johnsilver
2 years 11 months ago

Ya know?? I think that now that beckett is gone, he isn’t the worst choice on the list. Lester IMO isn’t an issue and even tho half of Boston thinks Lackey is lazy? he never, ever has had that tag before and is really one of the hardest workers around, as far as pitchers go from what have ever seen in **legitimate** print.

Pedroia, and Ells, don’t think would be that much of an issue, especially with Ells only around another year and he could actually serve as a fair pitching coach.

The few relievers who know him it would help, not hinder.

beckett was the **main** one who had to be long gone (to me) before any thinking of a Tek hire and now he is gone.. Sure, Lackey was #2, but I always thought he was a super hard worker anyway, tho strong willed.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

According to the story (and take the story for what it’s worth, which, with the Boston media isn’t necessarily much) Varitek was kind of the instigator in the whole thing. If that’s even remotely true he doesn’t need to be anywhere near that team right now.

2 years 11 months ago

Agreed. Forget this “experience” garbage. Matheny and Ventura are doing great this year. Tek is next on the list to get his chance.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Give the job to Beyeler and put Varitek in charge of Pawtucket, then – if things seem to be working in Pawtucket – move Varitek up to Boston after 2-3 years (when most of his buddies in Boston are gone, and the kids he’s had in Pawtucket are in the majors). That gives Varitek a chance to learn the ins and outs of managing, and it clears the team of people he already either likes or dislikes.

dc21892
2 years 11 months ago

Amen

Michael
2 years 11 months ago

Do the Sox have Arnie Beyeler at Pawtucket for any special reason? I know next to nothing about him, but why does his name never come up as a manager/coach/??? Input, please.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

I wonder the same thing, he started with Boston back in 2000 with Lowell and has worked his way up to Pawtucket (with a brief stint where he went to Texas for a while mixed in there), so he knows a lot of the guys on the team and has worked with them as their manager before (in an arguably more important part of their careers – when they were still being developed as baseball players).

He spent 4 years here in Maine and always seemed to be a great guy who had the respect of his players.

2 years 11 months ago

Maybe they’re in town to kick the tires on Robby Thompson, Wedge’s right hand man.

2 years 11 months ago

Nope. Sandberg deserves a chance before Thompson

Crucisnh
2 years 11 months ago

Nobody “deserves” a chance. The only thing that matters is who is best for the job. “Deserve” has nothing to do with it, and certainly not from an outsider to the organization.

johnsilver
2 years 11 months ago

That is the “Chicago Way” and in that regard??? Let Sandberg take over the Cubs, or some other team in Chicago.. Any sport….

Chiburgh
2 years 11 months ago

To say “The skipper appears to have grown tired of the drama.” Bobby loves drama. I think he met his match and then some. A horrible hire.

Chiburgh
2 years 11 months ago

Is there anyway the Sox could just trade Bobby to Japan? Then we would all be rid of him. :)

2 years 11 months ago

[who really knows anything. all we fans get is what the media tells us..and just like the political news media, i do not trust sports media either, they manufacture drama to entertain…especially when the team is doing bad in the standings.

2 years 11 months ago

Bob Brenly please?!?!?

Brent Lafond
2 years 11 months ago

Justins right tito isnt laphing he has to much love for this team. Its time for a new managers and thats that.

SCGMusik
2 years 11 months ago

Bring Back Tito…. It wouldn’t take much of a PR campaign to convince Boston fans who still love him. Im sure Tito would love to coach Middlebrooks, Ross, Ciriaco, and the crop of rising spects in the Sox farm. It was essentially Josh Beckett that ruined Francona’s career. And the team has already admitted on it’s past Free Agency financial mistakes on top of getting rid of all the bad apples this year.. which shows forgiveness to Tito in itself that he could have been wrongly fired…

Goriax
2 years 11 months ago

Ive said it from the interview stage, Valentine was a terrible idea.

Nazzi_Muhammad
2 years 11 months ago

A bad team with a bad manager equals 12 games under .500 and 14 games back in the wild card. End the misery now and give BV the boot. It’s never to late to start over….

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Because they aren’t, they’re still losing (things never look good in the clubhouse when a team is losing like that), and they still haven’t gotten rid of the biggest instigator (Bobby V).

bglaszcz
2 years 11 months ago

Because they traded their best player away. Winning cures all, and they didn’t get better this season. There will be drama until Bobby V is gone and they right the ship and start winning again.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
2 years 11 months ago

Honestly, I thought it was the right move at the time.The alternative choice was the Tigers third base coach and I couldn’t find anyone who wanted him. He just hasn’t worked out.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

There were plenty of other options, they simple never actually looked at any of them.

An empty chair would have been a better option than Bobby V.

YanksFanSince78
2 years 11 months ago

I just don’t see how ANYONE can say that Bobby V has been given an honest shot at putting his stamp on this team. I think the only worse than hiring him would be to fire him w/o giving him another season to see what he can do. Chances are, the Sox are not going to be legit title contenders in 2013. Why not see what he can do? Let him bring in his staff and give him more input into player personnel.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

You just want to see Boston fail again.

Seriously though, I don’t believe he was given a fair chance either, but he never should have been given any chance (and the made the absolute worst of a bad situation), so why not take the opportunity to drop him and find someone who should actually be there?

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
2 years 11 months ago

And no one thought the 2003 Red Sox should have gone as far as they did… a single Grady Little mistake kept us from the Series. Major parts of the Sox core is still intact and even though I’m clearly biased I think it’s way too early to count the Sox out for next year.

The way I see it, Bobby V was given a very damaged team and in the end seemed to do more damage than good. I don’t b;ame him for all the problems, but I do not see how giving him another shot will help the team next season. I don’t know who can, recently I’ve argued Tek is a good option but I believe the counter point to that argument has equally good points. The simple truth is we need a guy who did some of the things Francona did: Work in the shadows and ignore the media. Bobby V has been very public and tried to play with the media.

YanksFanSince78
2 years 11 months ago

Whoa whoaaaa there @start_wearing_purple:disqus @MaineSox:disqus not saying they WON’T contend, but chances are, they probably won’t make a major addition this offseason (don’t see them in on Greinke or Hamilton) so I’m saying, they probably won’t be considered favorites next year. Anything can happen (see Yanks getting their teeth kicked in by Baltimore) but 2013 is probably going to be somewhat of a bridge year.

YanksFanSince78
2 years 11 months ago

On field performance should be how Bobby V is evaluated and you can’t really blame him for the way Lester, Beckett, Bard, Buchh have performed, the injuries to Ells, Craw, etc or the less than stellar play of Youks, Agonz and Pedroia in the 1st half.

I think the drama WAS a bit of a distraction but I have to believe that these players are professional enough so that it wasn’t the MAJOR reason why they struggled. Just don’t think you can properly evaluate him just off of what happened this year. he doesnt have to be loved to be successful. Most of the 1976 thru1980 Yanks hated Billy Martin and they won a couple of AL pennants and a WS w/ him anyway.

hawkny1
2 years 11 months ago

The real culprit for the turmoil besetting the Red Sox is GM Ben Cherington, who may have been a good #2, for Theo Epstein, but has been a poor #1 since getting promoted last fall. He blew his first major decision, hiring a competent field boss, and has been engaging in power plays, back door politics and back stabbing his manager, ever since. If anyone should be given the opportunity to turn in his Red Sox uniform for employment elsewhere it should be Mr. Cherington.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

Just because a team can win in spite of the manager doesn’t mean you should keep him around.

Guest
2 years 11 months ago

You don’t have to look far back to find Grady Little. Valentine is far from the worst manager in Red Sox history. That statement is unsubstantiated and sensationalistic.

MaineSox
2 years 11 months ago

You obviously haven’t been around here long, I’ve stated numerous times that I think a large portion of the fan base is a huge problem, and I’d love it if most of them would stick to football, but I don’t see how any of this has to do with the conversation?

I’m also not blaming Manny for anything (did you actually read what I was talking about?), simply responding to an assertion that Youkilis has been a lingering problem as – supposedly – evidenced by his fight with Manny, and anyone who was around during that time knows that Manny was the issue for that whole thing.

I’m also not an apologist, I’ve stated several time just in this one thread that the team had, and still has issues, I just don’t agree with you on what, or who, those issues are – that doesn’t make me an apologist.