Blue Jays Notes: Rasmus, Samardzija, Anthopoulos

Blue Jays general manager Alex Anthopoulos spoke with reporters at the conclusion of the Winter Meetings today.  Sportsnet.ca's Ben Nicholson-Smith (in two seperate pieces) and the Toronto Sun's Bob Elliott have the highlights of Anthopoulos' talk, as well as a few other hot stove items…

  • Anthopoulos didn't say whether or not he'd recently discussed a contract extension with Colby Rasmus, who is eligible for free agency next winter.  Rasmus has raised his value after a big 2013 campaign, though Anthopoulos noted that larger-market teams like Toronto had the luxury of waiting before locking players up.  "We don’t mind paying a little more to be sure we get a little more information," Anthopoulos said.
  • Rasmus' name reportedly emerged in trade talks for starting pitching.  While Anthopoulos noted that "no one is untradeable," he also added that "for us to move an everyday position player and feel like we can get better, that would be hard to do."
  • The Cubs are asking for Marcus Stroman, Aaron Sanchez and a third prospect from the Blue Jays for Jeff Samardzija, Elliott reports.  Anthopoulos recently said he was constantly being asked about Stroman and Sanchez, the Jays' top two pitching prospects, in possible deals.
  • The Blue Jays have been approached by teams looking to add power hitters.   "The one thing we have is power and there’s not a lot of power on the market and the free-agent prices don’t work….We haven’t lined up anything,” Anthopoulos said.
  • The Jays have three starting pitchers targeted and Anthopoulos says a fourth pitcher could also be in play.  “We’re not going to close the door on the fourth,” the GM said. “The fourth is a little more challenging, but I think there could be a domino effect with the fourth if we do some other things.”
  • The signing of Tomo Ohka adds another knuckleballer to the organization and Anthopoulos hinted that the team may add more knuckleballers to prepare their catchers for the challenge of handling R.A. Dickey.  “To be honest, we’ll look to add some more guys if we can….We may look to get some other guys that we think can be guys to convert," Anthopoulos said.
  • The Jays are looking to add an international free agent, Nicholson-Smith reports, so the trade of Rule 5 draft pick Brian Moran to the Angels for $244K of extra space under the international spending cap helped Toronto prepare for this potential signing.  The Blue Jays attempted to acquire international cap space from the Phillies earlier this winter but were turned down.


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175 Comments on "Blue Jays Notes: Rasmus, Samardzija, Anthopoulos"


Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

“The Cubs are asking for Marcus Stroman, Aaron Sanchez and a third prospect from the Blue Jays for Jeff Samardzija”

Haha, thats hilarious. Maybe take out the first two parts and we have a deal.

cubs7691
1 year 8 months ago

Look at what they got for Garza (who had 3 months left on his contract). Not saying it will happen, but stupid moves have been made. Most recent is Fister to Washington. I highly doubt they would get both but maybe one with another solid prospect or two.

Overbrook
1 year 8 months ago

What did they get? 2 very good AA pitching prospects, a middle reliever, and an ex top 3B prospects in sharp decline. They did well for a rent, but the idea that they got some huge haul of top prospects is as silly as the idea that Smardzija is an ace.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Maybe you can give us Lawrie for a bag of balls, too.

GoForThree
1 year 8 months ago

I do believe the Cubs are over valuing Samardzija. lol Well, it is getting close to Christmas so i guess they are hoping for gifts.

Cubs27
1 year 8 months ago

Wouldn’t you ask for that much, though? They don’t have to trade Samardzija so it only makes sense for a team to have to overpay.

GoForThree
1 year 8 months ago

If i was truly looking to get a return, i’d ask for a reasonable amount. Not be full of it by asking for a ransom.

Tom Filgate
1 year 8 months ago

I’m pretty sure Theo knows what he is doing though. Shoot for the moon and you might get a star

GoForThree
1 year 8 months ago

Though Theo isn’t the GM, Hoyer is.

Tom Filgate
1 year 8 months ago

And I’m still sure Theo knows what he is doing

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Why? You can just hold him until the TDL until teams are willing to overpay.

Cubs27
1 year 8 months ago

I would too, but only if the Cubs actually had to trade him. There’s a difference there.

Lucas Kschischang
1 year 8 months ago

No team should ask for a teams #1 and #2 prospects and more for a #4 starter.

Guillermo
1 year 8 months ago

Shark would not be #4 for the Jays

GoForThree
1 year 8 months ago

Maybe not, but that still doesn’t up his worth to these heights.

Swarley
1 year 8 months ago

I think their plan now is to hold on to him and work out a contract later on (they still have two years of control) and if a team is dumb enough to unload all their prospects for a middle rotation pitcher, well who would say no to that?

theUpdate23
1 year 8 months ago

Is he better than Dickey, Buehrle or Morrow?

TheoHoyer
1 year 8 months ago

If you look at 2013 numbers, Samardzija had a pretty comparable year to both Dickey and Buehrle. Plus he has more upside, for what it’s worth.

Jaysfan724
1 year 8 months ago

To be fair…Dickey and Buehrle had very poor first halfs, and pitched much better after the break. I’m sure if Samardzija came to the AL East he would struggle just as much if not play worse.

Cubs27
1 year 8 months ago

With all due respect to the AL East, you realize he played in the NL Central, which had 3 teams make it to the postseason? The AL East wasn’t the toughest division last year.

theUpdate23
1 year 8 months ago

Pitchers have a much harder time in the AL East than the NL Central. Tampa, Balt, NY, Boston, Toronto. All hugely offensive teams in hitter friendly ballparks.

jjs91
1 year 8 months ago

Yes

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

Yes. Empirically, he has been for the last two years.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

You’re right, he would be our #5 behind Buehrle, Dickey, Morrow and Stroman.

Lucas Kschischang
1 year 8 months ago

Yeah he’d be behind Dickey, Buehrle, and Morrow.

scott brecht
1 year 8 months ago

They are the Jays best prospects, not the Twins. Big difference in talent levels.

Lucas Kschischang
1 year 8 months ago

BREAKING NEWS: Individual players are not a representation of a whole farm system.

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

Nope, they’re asking for the #1 and #2 prospects of from an average system (due to trading away tons in the last few years) where those prospects sit in the top 50 and barely in the top 100. Need I remind you a top 15 prospect and top 50 prospect in BA’s midseason were just moved for Mark Trumbo.

And Shark over the last two years ranks between 18th and 30th best in the league depending on which advanced metric you use (FIP, xFIP, SEIRA).

Lucas Kschischang
1 year 8 months ago

You’re referring to last years top 50 and top 100?

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

I’m referring to the two most current lists put out by Baseball America: the 2013 top 100, the 2013 mid-season top 50.

If you have something more current, I’d love to see it.

Lucas Kschischang
1 year 8 months ago

Both of which don’t account for both Sanchez and Stroman’s dominant performances in the AFL.

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

I wouldn’t over sell 23 innings and 11 innings (respectively) of quality work. Sanchez also led his teams in walks and Stroman didn’t start a game.

ice_hawk10
1 year 8 months ago

Well they do if they want an opportunity to speed up their rebuild.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Trading their one, young, established, controllable arm will speed up their rebuild? Que?

It might make sense, but it won’t speed it up.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

He is a 4th starter who the Cubs could probably sell as a #2/3, makes sense.

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

Please explain to me empirically how he is a 4th starter with stats not ERA or W-L.

TheoHoyer
1 year 8 months ago

The comment boards here are pretty predictable.

Cubs Fans: This deal seems pretty fair
Blue Jays Fans: NO WAY! Samardzija isn’t worth it!

Just so it’s clear: It takes talent to acquire talent. People overvalue their team’s prospects. I say this as a Cubs fan. Do I think Samardzija is worth Sanchez and Stroman? No, but the Cubs will get what they’re asking for from someone. See: Matt Garza

EDIT: You guys can downvote me all you want. I’m not saying that it’s a fair deal, but the Cubs will hold onto Shark until they get what they’re asking for.

EDIT TWO: Can’t we all agree that we love baseball and hate the Yankees?

hurley55
1 year 8 months ago

Jason Parks of Baseball Prospectus said Sanchez and Stroman plus a third prospect is a little too much for a David Price, let alone a lesser pitcher like Samardzija.

TheoHoyer
1 year 8 months ago

I agree with that statement. Someone will feel the pressure to make a move and bite though.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Parks has a prospect love fest going on with Stroman, so I see why he’d say that.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

I dont think he has a prospect love of Stroman, I just think he realizes that Stroman’s height doesnt matter as much as most people think it does. So because he realizes that, it appears he loves Stroman, when really he just values him as he truly is.

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

And Fangraphs gave them, earlier this month, not so ringing an endorsment:

Sanchez has the makings of a No. 1 or 2 starter, if his command and control both improve. However, I have concerns over his ability to stay healthy in the long term, and he’s already had shoulder issues pop up.

Toronto is going to give Stroman every opportunity to succeed as a starter but it’s hard to envision him holding up to 200+ innings for an extended period of time. Former starter-turned-reliever Tom Gordon, who also stood about 5’9” and pitched parts of 21 seasons in the Majors, is perhaps a good comp for Stroman.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

Fangraphs is not as good of a talent evaluator as Baseball Prospectus. Fangraphs is good, but they dont spend the time to deeply look at things, such as noticing that Stroman is actually vastly different than Gordon.

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

Fair, but I think people are dramatically overvaluing the #42 prospect mid-season (Sanchez) and Stroman (who didn’t make the list, last appearing as #98 on BA’s top 100 in 2013).

Especially when #14 midseason and #48 midseason were just moved for Mark Trumbo.

GoForThree
1 year 8 months ago

I’m not a Jays fan. It’s too much.

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

You are correct. It does take talent to acquire talent. But if I am giving up Sanchez and Stroman, I want a David Price or a Chris Sale.

TheoHoyer
1 year 8 months ago

I agree. It would probably take even more than that to pry Chris Sale from the White Sox.

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

True. Chris Sale is under team control until 2019.. so, at least in my opinion, his value exceeds that of Price by quite a bit, especially in the eyes of AA and the Jays who really value controllable young players.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

I wonder what it would take. I would offer all of the Jays top 5 prospects without missing a beat. I wonder if Sanchez, Stroman, Tirado, Nolin and Norris would be enough.

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

That would be unwise, perhaps their top 3, but not 5…

Noah Baron
1 year 8 months ago

Every year one team makes the same mistake. Someone will overpay for Samardzjia and/or Price, just like the Blue Jays overpayed for Dickey last year and the Royals overpaid for Shields.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

It’s not a fair deal, but it’s exactly what the Cubs should be asking for. The Jays are paying for Samardzija, the two years of control, the pick compensation if he leaves, and the Cubs foregoing the TDL trade market, which is always very lucrative.

I don’t see what’s outlandish here other than people not having a grasp with the situation.

TheoHoyer
1 year 8 months ago

Bias fans, plain and simple. This is why they’re fans and not GM’s.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

“Pick compensation”

Because a 4.34 ERA is worthy of what will likely be $16 million.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Because 2001 called and ERA is still a relevant stat on its own back then.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

Oh okay, so lets ignore the most useful stat when measuring the value of pitchers in the past. How about we use the stat that projects value. 3.77 FIP, becuase that is totally worth $16 million.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

How is that the most useful? FIP is empirical. It’s based on pitching ability alone, nothing else. I agree that some pitching evaluation is results based, but it’s an 80-20 split at best.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

So then what are we going to use? Every letter of your last name is worth $2 million?

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

Since he’s been a starter he’s 30th in FIP, 18th in xFIP, and 19th in SEIRA. ALL predictive stats.

All better than every pitcher currently on the Blue Jays in that time, might I add.

Mike Babiak
1 year 8 months ago

how relevant is his 1.0 WAR

cubs7691
1 year 8 months ago

Don’t mention the Y word here.

Runtime
1 year 8 months ago

I thought you were quoting a OOTP trade offer screen.

binky
1 year 8 months ago

If the Jays are giving up Stroman & Sanchez in the same deal for a starter they can start pre-ordering their David Price jersey’s right now.

cmanthomas
1 year 8 months ago

Insane request by the Cubs. That’s how you destroy business relationships. Hopefully the jays shun the cubs in all trades going forward.

GoForThree
1 year 8 months ago

LOL! It’s not shun worthy. Just ridiculous.

Matthew Mueller
1 year 8 months ago

It’s doubtful AA and Theo have a great relationship left over from the Red Sox days.

1 year 8 months ago

Why? Just because interdivision trades are rare doesn’t mean that executives foster grudges that prevent future dealings.

ice_hawk10
1 year 8 months ago

There’s really no reason to think that at all. Look its a clear case of a rebuilding team asking for the moon for one of it’s few valuable players, and the interested team totally balking at the asking price. If a deal gets done, they will meet in the middle. Samardzija is does not have the track record or the team control of a Dickey and will never get a D’Arnaud, Syndergaard, Beccerra type return. Its in the cubs’ interest to ask, but pretty clearly the Jays are not that dumb.

Goriax
1 year 8 months ago

For Price yes for Shark, absolutely 100% no.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

I wonder how much more it would take to acquire Chris Sale. Whatever it is, I think I would do it. Sale is worth a lot.

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

Absolutely. Chris Sale is the kind of player the Jays want.

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

Chris Sale is the kind of baseball player that every team wants. It’s like saying, “Man, Trout would look good in center for us.”

cmanthomas
1 year 8 months ago

After last season, the Jays really don’t have any good, reliable starters. Buerhle and dickey might pitch 200+ innings but with 4th/5th starter stats. nothing special.

Tanaka may be a question mark, but knowing what we know about garza (injuries), and ervin (inconsistent, and unlikely to succeed in AL east), tanaka could be the only FA to bring success to this rotation. Even with Tanaka they still need a number 1/2. FIster would have been a solid addition

Danny Phillips
1 year 8 months ago

Cubs management overvalue samardzija as much as their fans

cubs7691
1 year 8 months ago

I think he’s a number 2 at best. He’s like Big Z if it doesn’t go his way on the mound, he self destructs.

Danny Phillips
1 year 8 months ago

A 2 on a bad team at best 3 on an average to below

cubs7691
1 year 8 months ago

As of right now, but with the right coaches he could be. He really has electric stuff he just can’t control it.

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

Please, show me beyond ERA and W-L why he’s a 3 on an “average team.”

I’m very curious for proof to this effect.

chrisenvy
1 year 8 months ago

What have the Jays prospects done at the MLB level to show they will be successful?

GoForThree
1 year 8 months ago

About as much as most on the Cubs roster.

cubs7691
1 year 8 months ago

Don’t tell me you wouldn’t want Donnie Murphy starting at 3rd for your team LOL (sarcasm)

Shane Flannagan
1 year 8 months ago

Well Murphy would play for the Cardinals and since God loves the Cardinals he would automatically become an amazing player (Ex. Freese for October)

Danny Phillips
1 year 8 months ago

Not sure how that relates to these particular two prospects

George Vander Buist
1 year 8 months ago

What has any prospect ever done at the ML level to show they will be successful? That is why they are prospects

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

I understand your point, though it was poorly articulated. I agree, there is uncertainty involved with prospects, there are no sure things. But, that’s the risk you take.

user9999
1 year 8 months ago

Strolman, Sanchez and a prospect for Samardzjia? lol… thats a deal for price not this guy

Shane Flannagan
1 year 8 months ago

That wouldn’t even come close to getting Price

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

Yes it would

ice_hawk10
1 year 8 months ago

Yeah, it would. I believe someone from fangraphs or maybe baseball prospectus indicated that including both of them would be an overpay for two years of price. Their word is not law, but clearly counts for a lot more than the average fan. The cubs will probably get one of those guys for Samardzija, but never both.

jjs91
1 year 8 months ago

Source?

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

Jason Parks of Baseball Prospectus said it during one of those weekly question and answer things.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Exactly what I’m thinking. When someone’s offering up Taijuan Walker, Sanchez and Stroman don’t stand a chance.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

First of all, the Mariners arent offering Walker, secondly, Sanchez and Stroman are top 20 and top 50 prospects respectively, I think they are better than Walker combined.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

I haven’t seen either in the top 20 anywhere. It’s not nearly enough. Stroman and Sanchez may be #2s or #3s, but Walker is poised to be a bonafide ace and is ML ready. The quality trumps the quantity.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

Jason Parks recently mentioned how two 6 prospects are better than one 7. Stroman and Sanchez are 6’s while Walker is a 7. When the quality is not much worse, quantity trumps quality absolutely..

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Once again, Parks has a man crush on those guys. Taijuan Walker is confirmed as one of the most sought after prospects in the game and is seen as what many think he is. He carries some serious trade value that can’t be cleared outside of a deal for a guy like Bradley, at least with a pitcher.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

EVERYONE acknowledges Stroman and Sanchez are 6’s. And Parks recognizes the true value of Stroman, he also certainly does not have a crush on Sanchez.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

I recognize the value of Stroman, too. I wanted him when he came out having watched a ton of him at Duke, but he’s not an ace. He’s not the talent that Walker is. Walker is special and special talent trumps good talent in any way, shape or form.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

Yes, I know both Sanchez and Stroman are not as good as Walker, but combined they are worth more. One great pitcher has a lot more risk than two very good pitchers, and thats why Stroman and Sanchez combined are more valuable.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

There’s a lot of risk with any prospect. It’s no different than with Sanchez and Stroman.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

Which is why when you are spreading it across two prospects it is much better. Especially when those two prospects are immensely valuable in their own right.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

But you’re talking about risk for a Chris Sale vs risk for a Matt Garza. One of those is a lot more worthwhile.

(these comparisons are not meant to be taken literally, just relatively)

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

First of all, Garza is a #3 type, and Sale is a #1. Secondly, what makes Sale valuable is his contract. Using John Sickels’ evaluation of what #1’s and #2’s are, Kershaw is a #1 and Greinke and Hamels are #2’s. Kershaw is obviously more valuable than both of them separately, but combined they are more valuable than Kershaw.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

What makes Sale valuable is that he’s an ace with an awesome contract, not just his contract.

Major leaguers and minor leaguers can’t be used to compare value. The ball game is completely different. Minor leaguers are basically currency; where as, major leaguers are concrete assets.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

But when comparing two prospects, we can use them. Thats the point of this. Walker has the potential to be a top shelf #1. Sanchez has the potential to be a top shelf #2 and Stroman has the potential to be a middle of the pack #2. Two #2’s are more valuable than one #1, and as such, Stroman and Sanchez combined are more valuable than Walker.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

That’s not the point, because you’re talking about two completely different things. It’s like trying to compare a running back to a power forward.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

No not really, do you really not understand this? Ill put it a bit simpler. You can choose one option A or two option B. Option A is one 80% chance at $1.8 million. Option B is an 80% chance at $1 million. Option A individually is more valuable, but since you can have two of option B, option B is more valuable.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Yes, really. You’re talking about assets that have already returned that; where as, prospects haven’t.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

No, thats the point of using the 80%!!! The assets HAVENT returned their value, same with the prospects, and as such they are a risk. Stroman and Sanchez have less upside individually, but combined they are more valuable.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Even then, you’re assuming that a) your return numbers are accurate there and b) your risk numbers are accurate there.

At the bottom line, precedence in baseball, which is a much better predictor than arbitrary numbers and faulty comparisons, falls much more towards Walker than it does Stroman and Sanchez. Packages with guys like Stroman and Walker get traded much more often than ones of Walker’s sort.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

You are missing the point by a wide margin. The risk numbers and returns dont really matter, because the similiarity between Sanchez, Stroman and Walker is not significant enough to change the outcome. We are not talking about two potential #4’s and one #1, we are talking about #2’s and one #1. Thats what they are. Walker’s risk is not much lower than Sanchez and Stroman, while Walkers upside is not much higher. Yes, it is higher, but for example, the difference between Kershaw and Greinke is significant, but not significant enough.

The reason packages like Stroman and Sanchez get traded much more often is because of two reasons: 1) prospects like Walker are not common at all, like maybe 1 every year, 2) combining two prospects is easier to reach the desired value than using 1.

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

Poor analogy: you’re saying Stroman and Walker can be Grienke? Grienke is a #1 on most every team not the Dodgers.

Better analogy: it’s more like Kershaw (#3 in WAR over past 2 years) versus Shark (#33 in WAR over past two years).

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

Poor analogy. Option A you have 80% chance at 1.8 million; Option B you have 60% chance at 2.0 million. Is 200k worth 20% more risk?

trenigro
1 year 8 months ago

Assuming that the 80% represents the likelihood of the player succeeding and the $ figure represents their potential value (talent), this analogy ignores that Taijuan Walker carries less risk than both Stroman and Sanchez individually. These numbers also appear to be completely arbitrary as well and therefore don’t mean anything.

I do get the point that you are making though and it is a valid argument, but I have to respectfully disagree as I seem to view the the individual value and risk of these players differently.

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

Yes, less risk. Also lower ceilings.

trenigro
1 year 8 months ago

Walker is an MLB ready ace caliber, top 5 prospect while Sanchez is a high upside guy who hasn’t pitched past A ball and Stroman is a 5’9″ potential #3. Sanchez and Stroman are nice but I think most people would take Walker.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

When it comes to prospects, especially pitchers, large quantity of quality is king. Sanchez and Stroman combined are probably more valuable than Walker.

trenigro
1 year 8 months ago

When it comes to pitching prospects, proximity to the majors is king. Aside from having the highest ceiling among these guys, Walker is also MLB ready. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

So is Stroman, Stroman could start in the majors next April. He is likely maybe 1-2 months behind Walker.

trenigro
1 year 8 months ago

He has yet to pitch in AAA. Sure he could possibly jump over AAA or speed through it very quickly, but that should not be expected. Walker has already gone through and dominated AAA and has successfully gotten his feet wet in the majors.

calabio
1 year 8 months ago

yea. i disagree….5 years from now. walker will be a front of the line starter for a few years by then. and sanchez will have had 2 stints in the majors, high era. fade away and stroman will maybe make the majors as a reliever, get shelled and traded away and maybe become a cub when hes making a comeback at 34

Dyna4
1 year 8 months ago

Thats a heck of a crystal ball you got there.

calabio
1 year 8 months ago

lol i was jus spit ballin. sanchez will probably be pretty good

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

By who, when, where? They were in the high 60s and 90s respectively for the last BA list.

godzillacub
1 year 8 months ago

Please tell me where that is from. The highest I’ve seen Sanchez is 40s mid-season and I’ve only seen Stroman brush into the top 100.

Tom Filgate
1 year 8 months ago

It’s called negotiating. If the Blue Jays don’t like the asking price, they can just say no. Everyone’s getting a little too worked up about it. They didn’t give up as much for Dickey so I would guess they wouldn’t give up that package for Shark

George Vander Buist
1 year 8 months ago

I”m dying to find out who these 3 or 4 pitchers they have lined up are.. and if they are lined up.. what’s the wait?

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

In my eyes, if we are talking trades.. then Jeff Samardzija, Hisashi Iwakuma, David Price, and Chris Sale make the most sense.
Free agency…. Bronson Arroyo or Ubaldo Jimenez

ice_hawk10
1 year 8 months ago

I would think the longshot 4th is clearly David Price. Perhaps depends on whether the Jays can acquire a 1B/DH to replace EE, who is ubervaluable and cheap enough to be at least a great starting point for the Rays, who need a 1B. Perhaps that is why the Jays are interested in Billy Butler. They desperately want to avoid trading their high upside SP depth (Sanchez, Stroman), and could potentially do that in acquiring Butler. EE then goes to Tampa as the centrepiece for Price, a rare star for star type trade. Butler is not as good as EE, but could potentially approximate his production given a switch from Kaufman to the Rogers Centre. I’m probably connecting too many dots here, but hey – its the offseason – its fun to speculate.

ice_hawk10
1 year 8 months ago

Star for star trades are rare, but who better to pull one off than Freidman and Anthopoulos, two of the games more progressive thinkers

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

I read somewhere that the Rays asked for Stroman, Sanchez and Lawrie. They obviously dont want to trade within the division.

George Vander Buist
1 year 8 months ago

Kind of weird they would look to ask for Lawrie.. They have maybe the best 3b in the game in Longoria already

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

I agree with you, but I think that it would take a package of EE and Marcus Stroman to get Price. Love the train of thought, just think EE for Price straight up wouldn’t be exactly what the Rays want.

cmanthomas
1 year 8 months ago

Iwakuma aint in talks unless they give an mob ready starter back…iwakuma is big part of seattle’s push to make playoffs with cano

ubaldo only makes sense if jays can sign a higher tier starter swell

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

Sadly, Ubaldo is a top tier starter in this free agent class..

cmanthomas
1 year 8 months ago

he could be great, but with the question marks jays have with morrow, he might not be the answer jays are looking for

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

The only way the Blue Jays give up Aaron Sanchez and Marcus Stroman is in a deal for Chris Sale. In my opinion, a deal for Sale would probably look like this:
Toronto receives: SP Chris Sale and Gordon Beckham
Chicago receives: SP Aaron Sanchez, SP Marcus Stroman, and OF DJ Davis

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Chris Sale only gets traded in some sort of Herschel Walker deal. He’s a bonafide, lefthanded ace locked up on a team friendly deal for many years. You have to give up some ML young talent along with your top 3-4 prospects.

Jaysfan724
1 year 8 months ago

Though Beckham isn’t the obvious centerpiece, I’d rather roll with a Goins/Izturis platoon than throwing in a DJ Davis for Beckham who wouldn’t be much of an upgrade, if that.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

Not enough for Sale, it would honestly take one of Bautista, Encarnacion or Lawrie to get them to even listen.

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

No…. If Chicago were contending (in which case they wouldn’t be trading Sale) then sure, they would look for Bautista or that type of player. But the White Sox want prospects, they are nowhere near contention. It would be pointless to acquire any of those three, not at this stage

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

They’d want Lawrie for sure. Look at their recent acquisitions. Garcia, Abreu and Eaton. All young, cost controlled pieces.

Not to mention, you can’t complete this deal without some proven talent going the other way.

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

“Can’t complete this deal without some proven talent going the other way”.
So… explain to me the Roy Halladay, James Shields, CC Sabathia, Zack Greinke, Cliff Lee, and Matt Garza (to name a few) trades where there was “proven talent” acquired in return. The White Sox are going to be one of the worst teams in baseball next year, without question.. they don’t need proven talent, they need all the prospects they can get.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

How many of them were in their low 20’s and contending for a Cy Young? Oh and what about them having one of the most friendly pitcher’s contracts in the game?

Sale has other worldly trade value. Not quite that Kershaw level, but he’s got more than anyone you’ve mentioned and more than guys like Price and Hamels.

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

Actually, Chris Sale is more valuable than Kershaw. I believe Kershaw is and always will be a better pitcher than Sale, but, Chris is under contract until 2019, and Kershaw is a FA after this year… So, all things considered, if you look at it from say the point of view of Alex Anthopolous, then Sale is more valuable than CK. And you are correct, the pitchers I mentioned didn’t have that kind of contractual awesomeness that Sale has, I just don’t think the Sox would want “proven talent”. It doesn’t make sense. They want guys who can help them in a few years. Not a guy like Bautista or Lawrie, or Edwin who would be gone by the time they are ready to compete.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Look at what the Sox have gotten in the past. They’re a very win now organization. I wouldn’t think they’d go after Joey Bats, but Encarnacion is definitely on the table and Lawrie is almost certainly a White Sox in this scenario.

Not to mention, like I’ve said, you need that kind of talent to make the trade worthwhile.There has to be some immediate impact, especially when you lack that premiere prospect.

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

He has infinitely more trade value than Kershaw. Kershaw only has one year.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

At some point, you have to draw the line at contractual value. It’s closer than it should be because of it, but Kershaw still has more value.

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

Kershaw does not have more value. Plain and simple. Ask me who I want to pitch Game 7 of the World Series out of the two, and the answer is Kershaw without a moment’s hesitation. But, who has more value in terms of trades, it is Sale (%100)

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Not at all. You’re putting too much into contracts.

Kershaw is 26 with years of Cy Young caliber pitching under his belt and is currently the best pitcher in baseball.

Yea, you have to sign him. So what? He’s too good for you to give a damn.

Oren Jungreis
1 year 8 months ago

Too little.

i would offer

Sanchez Gose Osuna/Nolin tirado/barreto and DJ davis

Jeremy Russell
1 year 8 months ago

As much as that would such to trade, sadly that is actually closer to a fair deal.

cubs7691
1 year 8 months ago

I know I am a Cubs fan and everything, but I’m just gonna say that with Sale you are gonna be expecting some injuries throughout his tenure. His mechanics are odd. I wouldn’t be surprised if he got Tommy John before he’s done. He messed up his elbow either last year or 2 years ago, but he’s still a stud. He just comes with more risk.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

I’d be willing to trade for him as a Cubs fan. It’s worth taking, especially with how the TJ surgery has evolved.

cubs7691
1 year 8 months ago

Oh yeah he’s got some of the dirtiest stuff in the game.

cmanthomas
1 year 8 months ago

i think every jays fan would love that deal. I’m finding it tough to see why the chi sox trade sale–seeing as an ace is hard to come by, and sale’s salary is cheap long term

Brent Nault
1 year 8 months ago

I think Jeff Samardzija is way overrated. Is his stuff electric? Yes. But, his value is not as high as people seem to think it is. He is 28 and has only thrown 200 innings once, albeit by no fault of his own considering he has only been a starter for two seasons. It’s also important to note that while a similar argument could be applied to Sale to an extent; Sale is under team control until 2019 while ‘the Shark’ is eligible for free agency after 2015.

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Let’s compare Shark to one of the most valuable pitchers in baseball. Yes. Let’s.

Barry2
1 year 8 months ago

Jays miss the boat on Fister but Porcello might be available if a good free agent starting pitcher is still around in January for the Tigers to sign to make up for Rick’s departure.

cmanthomas
1 year 8 months ago

agreed. Fister was definitely 50% of the answer for toronto. Tanaka might be the rest

baseball52
1 year 8 months ago

Everyone missed the boat on Fister. 28 other teams could have beaten that offer easily.

Cubstein
1 year 8 months ago

Yeah, I really wish the Cubs would have gotten in on that. At the very least they could have turned around and sold even higher.

cmanthomas
1 year 8 months ago

jays need to think longterm OF swell as SP. Choo is the only solid OF left in FA for this offseason AND next…I’m sure his agent is selling that pitch, but something to think about with melky not doing much and rasmus (inferior to choo) a FA next year.

Danny Phillips
1 year 8 months ago

The rub with Choo through is he is not worth the money a team will eventually spend on him.

Cubstein
1 year 8 months ago

Man I love Shark but even I know he’s not worth that much.

joe smith
1 year 8 months ago

Please trade this guy already….just don’t sent him to Toronto.

Noah Baron
1 year 8 months ago

For some reason I can’t reply… anyway sure at the time the deal was fine. But in retrospect now that Syndergaard has become an elite front of the rotation prospect who should provide 6 years of surplus value IN ADDITION to d’Arnaud, who was the centerpiece of the deal, makes this a steal for the Mets regardless of Dickey’s contributions.

Noah Baron
1 year 8 months ago

Blue Jays probably learned their lesson after the Dickey trade.

Jaysfan724
1 year 8 months ago

Don’t forget the desire for a third prospect like those two weren’t more than enough. Might as well ask for Osuna while you’re at it…get the whole trifecta. Crazy.

Danny Phillips
1 year 8 months ago

If not they may be lost. That was a horrible trade for the BJs

Jaysfan724
1 year 8 months ago

The fact they were trading for what would eventually become 4 years of control of a reigning Cy Young winner had just a little bit to do with the price they paid.

George Vander Buist
1 year 8 months ago

Hope so anyway

theUpdate23
1 year 8 months ago

Except the prospects the Jays dealt still haven’t made significant contributions at the ML level. Might still turn out horrible, but only time will tell.

malna
1 year 8 months ago

Not to mention, he still put up 2 WAR in a season where he was battling. 2 WAR for an SP making 10Mish? I’m down.

Dynasty22
1 year 8 months ago

Really?