1:38PM: Holland earns $6MM in salary and there is a $1MM buyout of his 2018 option, FanRag Sports’ Jon Heyman reports (Twitter links). If Holland either pitches in 50 games or finishes 30 games this season, the option vests into a $15MM player option for 2018 that Holland can either accept or reject in search of a larger multi-year deal on the open market. If the option doesn’t vest, it turns into a $10MM mutual option for 2018 that contains another $8MM in incentives.
9:55AM: The Rockies have landed one of the offseason’s most sought-after bullpen arms, as the club officially announced its one-year deal with right-hander Greg Holland. The contract also contains a vesting option for the 2018 season. Holland is represented by the Boras Corporation.
Holland will earn $7MM in guaranteed money in 2017, though he can earn substantially more in incentives that vary based on his role with the Rockies. Holland has $3MM worth of non-closing incentives in his contract and can earn up to $14MM next season if he serves as the Rockies’ closer. Presumably, the non-closing incentives are based on factors such as innings pitched and appearances, and the deal also contains bonuses for games finished.
[Related: Updated Colorado Rockies Depth Chart]
The 31-year-old Holland missed all of the 2016 season as he recovered from Tommy John surgery that was performed late in the 2015 campaign. Prior to that operation, however, he was one of the game’s top relievers and a key factor in the Royals’ return to prominence. From 2011-14, Holland tossed 256 1/3 innings of 1.86 ERA ball with 12.6 K/9 against 3.2 BB/9 with a 44.4 percent ground-ball rate. Holland racked up 113 saves in that time and anchored the Royals’ bullpen in the 2014 postseason, throwing 15 innings and allowing one run with a 15-to-5 K/BB ratio.
A year later, when the Royals won the World Series, Holland watched from the dugout following his operation. He’d pitched to a 3.83 ERA with 9.9 K/9 and 5.2 BB/9 in 44 2/3 innings prior to going under the knife. Incredibly, at the time Holland’s injury was reported to the public, manager Ned Yost suggested that Holland had unknowingly suffered a tear of some degree in his UCL back in Aug. 2014, which would mean he pitched the entire 2015 campaign with a tear in the elbow. The Royals reportedly recommended medical examination on numerous occasions, though Holland declined. Presumably, the tear was minimal in nature at first, but it progressed to the point where it was termed a “significant” tear by the tail end of the 2015 season.
If Holland passes the Rockies’ physical, he’ll add to what’s been an active offseason for Rockies GM Jeff Bridich and the rest of the Colorado front office. Colorado has clearly been operating in a win-now capacity, as evidenced by the team’s signing of Ian Desmond to a five-year, $70MM contract (which cost them the No. 11 overall pick in the upcoming draft) and the addition of lefty Mike Dunn on a three-year, $19MM deal.
With the Rockies, Holland would likely be the favorite to pitch the ninth inning, though he’ll presumably have to prove healthy and effective enough to push past incumbent candidate Adam Ottavino. That duo and the newly signed Dunn will pair with holdovers Jake McGee, Jason Motte and Chad Qualls to comprise the relief corps for first-year Rockies manager Bud Black. Also in the mix for ’pen jobs in Denver will be lefty Chris Rusin and right-handers Jordan Lyles, Carlos Estevez and Miguel Castro.
While the addition of Holland certainly doesn’t make the Rockies an immediate contender, the team’s offseason maneuverings have improved the 2017 outlook. Not only will Desmond and Holland be bolstering the lineup and the pitching staff, but the Rox will receive full seasons from sophomores David Dahl, Trevor Story and Tyler Anderson, each of whom impressed in their rookie efforts this past season. Beyond that, it’s certainly plausible that emerging rotation leader Jon Gray will take another step forward, and the Rox have an intriguing blend of young and veteran arms to round out the rotation. That group includes Chad Bettis, Tyler Chatwood, German Marquez and Jeff Hoffman.
Holland was linked to about two-thirds of the league early in the offseason, but the number of teams interested in his services began to narrow over the course of the past few weeks. Most recently, the Rockies, Nationals and a yet-unreported “mystery” team were believed to be the three most serious suitors for Holland’s services. With Holland off the board, the Nationals will presumably have to look elsewhere to add an experienced arm to their ninth-inning mix.
Yahoo Sports’ Jeff Passan (Twitter link) was the first to report that the two sides were in agreement, with FanRag Sports’ Jon Heyman tweeting earlier in the day that Holland and the Rockies were closing in on a deal. Passan also reported the financial details about the contract’s guaranteed money and the available incentives.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Add one more for me in the contest:)
Great signing by the Rocks. If Holland “rocks’ it and the Rocks are out of it by All Star Break, he could be traded off for a boat load of good prospects.
A boatload? Maybe a couple but with his injury history I doubt it would be anything close to what Miller and Chapman got last year
You do realize his injury “history” consists of the one injury he has just rehabbed from. One past injury, if he shows he’s healthy, is not going to damper his value.
Look what Wade Davis netted the Royals with his injury history. If Holland bounces back and they are out of it I think that’s a good comparable.
Still don’t think he’ll get a top flight package or a “boat load” as he puts it…a decent prospect or two yes, a franchise changing package, not so much
uncomfortablydumb it’s funny that I only see one comment from you and it was to call me out for not having anything to “offer the board”…you’re obviously a nincompoop
no one said they were getting a franchise changing package. he said a boat load of good prospects.
Sadly, the Rockies have ZERO history of trading players at the deadline, even though it’s a known strategy that all other clubs employ. Believe it or not, the ownership cares more about loyalty than logical roster management and future planning.
Tulo wants to talk to you about that.
Tulo wants to talk to you about that comment.
And the Nats continue to stand pat in the bullpen.
Lol!
Don’t worry, the Nats will sign another reliever. Dusty can’t stand the idea of going in-house for closer solutions.
The pickings are mighty slim for closers in the free agent market with Greg Holland now off the table. The Nationals would have to trade for one and their best options seem to be the retooling Rays or rebuilding White Sox.
Robles for Colome?
I think it would take more than that since closers are going for such a high price now
Same with the Dodgers
I love this signing for the Rockies. As a fan, this is precisely the guy I felt they should pursue, and they got him.
I agree. Probably the first interesting year in a while for them. Glad they kept on to Blackmon.
you want to have a good year and try to make more money in 2018 and you go to col stupid
shut up he’ll do fine. teams don’t just look at era as an indication as to how they did. they look at k/9, BB/9 and other saber metrics casual fans like yourself would not understand or follow. era can be one of the most overrated stats in baseball.
Ikr ericl97. People on here just don’t get it. ERA is a very overrated stat, especially for relievers.
No it’s not that’s a dumb statement who wants a pitcher with a 6 era no matter how good his k/9 is
Because ERA is inflated in Coors and everyone knows it. A 6 ERA in Coors is not a 6 ERA somewhere else. It’s called ERA+ or ERA- maybe go do some research
era can be wrong because of many things. for example, team defence and range. if your playing with a bunch of Pablo Sandoval’s in the infield, do u really think they will have the range to get ground balls. it wouldn’t be errors because the players are just fat. same thing goes for ball parks, and relievers in particular, with the limited innings they pitch, they could pitch 10 amazing no hit innings, but have one inning where they give up 3 runs. era will be bad even if he’s pitched well. era is a bs stat sometimes.
I 6 era at Coors is a 5 everywhere else….still want that sack?
The Rays did. De Leon’s ERA in LA was 6.35
In a small sample size. Give me a 6.00 era over a complete season and I can make a non park adjusted assessment of a pitcher.
teams who know ERA can be inflated do. thats how you find value. for example everyone wants the guy with a sub 3 era. but the guy with 9 k/9, 2 bb/9, low hr/9, who played in front of a crap D with bad BABIP luck which inflated his era? thats a candidate for an undervalued player.
You do know that park affects those numbers too as thin air affects the movement on breaking pitches.
You do know he will pitch on the road too? Scouts from other teams will have plenty of data on Holland, pitching in Coors won’t have a major impact on his future earnings.
I am well aware, that is why im saying stats won’t determine whether he gets paid or not , and era won’t be the underlining reason teams won’t want him. his other stats will be fine.
His arm falling off could impact his future earnings. Why don’t we make sure his arm stays attached this year before planning his future. Also his ego/confidence could be hurt playing in Colorado. As a pitcher myself I’d probably steer clear of Denver if possible but I’m sure he took the best deal for him and I wish him the best of luck. He was a stud for my Royals.
so you think teams are gonna form a great opinion on ~35 innings he tosses on the road?
I believe a pro scouting dept can make any assessment on Holland that will only help explain the stats he accrues. And I believe he’ll have plenty of them at Rockies games all season.
Sure they will. Teams will sign Holland in the future based on how his stuff looks, and less on the results.
Dont completely agree. Scouts will eliminate the noise from the stats….but wreckage is wreckage….lack of movement is lack….mph…etc. itll play into his stats.
How can you have a legitimate point by starting off with” shut up”?
I made it work haha I do have a legitimate point. era is a stat that is very hard to judge.
Yeah I get it
Modern day manners. Seems to be what the culture teaches now and all some kids know.
I dont think a 6.34 era will be hard to judge….just like having a .205 batting is against the odds of hiding an actually useful batter. People can overlook the basic stats…thats ok…I go to advanced stats as well…but the truth really is that most times things like avg and era are telling us who really is the best. Where the advanced metrics are incredibly useful is on the nuts and bolts of actually winning. It’ll tell you a guy like Eric Hosmer isn’t as good as he appears by the eyeball test.
Yeah it’s disturbing.
Shut up johnsilver you dooty head
he will not pitch good in col no pitcher is good in col jon gray might be 1st exception
You might wanna check out Ubaldo Jimenez’s 2010 season
Jhoulys Chacin and Jorge De La Rosa both had pretty great years in 2013 as well.
Brian Fuentes and Rafael Betancourt had some nice runs out of the pen for them, too.
Jeff Francis. Manny Corpas.
If he pitches well is a pretty major qualifier.
Jennings
Just getting league AVERAGE pitching with the Rockies is incredibly valuable given the typical offensive threat they pose.
True, but that coin has a flip-side. The Rockies can and have built teams to score in Coors, but visitors also take advantage of the thin dry air. No lead is ever safe until the last out is recorded. I’m quite surprised that Holland chose Colorado as the place to show what he can do again. Even if you depend on park adjusted stats, that’s still the park where even the best pitchers get their ears boxed regularly.
Im surprised too…even if pitching to 3 batters mitigates a little of the Coors risk. Not just the park….but the health factor..thin air and potentially cold weather early. Be interesting to hear his response if its candid and not just “Im excited to pitch in the fine state of Colorado, and hopefully we can win for the great fans.”
Maybe its the legailized pot and fishing
Could be. The fishing isn’t so great in California.
In all seriousness….sometimes it does come down to the intangibles. Family in the area, etc. I know if I were choosing a team at this point some personal matters might sway my decision a bit potentially. My sister lost her husband on Thanksgiving. Shes raising my nephew alone now in Wisconsin. Milwaukee might make NO sense in any baseball way…but it’d have pull for me personally.
Maybe the Hollands are comfortable with their income on some level and all things being fairly equal would like to live on the front range a year or two. He’s made more money already than most ever will.
Im not saying ANY of this plays a factor…but it can’t be totally discounted either
That’s rough. Very true. It’s easy to forget that ball players are people too.
Maybe he likes the schools.
Bad place to be if you want to rebuild your value.
With his splitter idk if that is the place to rebuild your career
Good point!
This is a good signing for both sides. Col takes a gamble at a potential elite closer, have they released numbers yet? A one year w vesting option seems they take on little risk. And as for Holland being “dumb because he wants to rebuild his career” thats just a dumb take, He gets a short contract if he stays healthy and the 2nd year vests he still has a chance for another 2-3 year contract on the other side of this, and its not like other teams dont realize what Coors does to pitching numbers. If his k/bb ratio is good and his velo is there he’s going to do just fine. Col is a fringe team and they might have just shored up the back end of their bullpen
Exactly. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
yep exactly
Woah!!! Wasn’t expecting this, didn’t think Holland would sign there. Going to be some amazing division races this season I can’t wait until April 2nd!!!
Why would he sign with the Rockies if he is trying to rebuild his market for next year?
Because if he pitches well he’ll get even more having “conquered” Coors. If he pitches poorly everyone will blame Coors Field and he’ll still get another chance somewhere else. Win/win.
Mlb front offices are just a bit more intelligent than this I believe. Good stuff pitches anywhere…bad stuff turns into a flaming meteor in Coors. He doesnt have to face more than 3 batters…face a lineup more than once. Coors just doesnt allow for mistakes.
He might have to face more than three batters per inning if he happens to not have 1-2-3 innings every time he goes out
Yeah, ok….my general intent in the statement was that he’s not starting and can max out his offering.
lol I am still kind of confused as to why good pitchers actually WANT to go to Colorado. He will be able to close so I think that is the big selling point.
Don’t get the “why sign with a non-contender” takes, beyond the fact that COL probably will at least contend for a wildcard this year. If he pitches well, he’ll be on a contender by August.
yep exactly
Not so much the non-contender issue as the notoriously difficult pitching environment at Coors and a rotation that demands a lot from the bullpen. Not the best formula for rebuilding market value. We don’t know the full terms yet but I am surprised he did not get at least similar one year + option offers from other teams.
Now get Quintana?
would cost too much. they’d want Dahl, Hoffman at the very least.
It would definitely take Dahl or Rodgers as the headliner.
But maybe can get away with Rodgers, Tapia and a pitcher NOT named Hoffman, Pint or Marquez??
Nah it would have to be Dahl AND Rodgers if you want to keep the arms.
Chris Archer…..possibly Sonny Gray.
Why didnt the Mets take a flyer on him?
Their cheap ownership? It’d be a cold day in hell before the Wilpons gave a guy closer money to only pitch part of a season. While they typically shop in the scratch and dent section, this particular option was probably too expensive for their small market team mentality.
Possible good news for the White Sox with the Nationals once again losing out on a free agent closer option this offseason. This should increase the chances of rekindling the trade talks regarding David Robertson that were initially discussed during the Adam Eaton negotiations.
The signing of Holland by the Rockies is yet another indication that the front office plans on being a serious contender in 2017. To enhance their chances, perhaps they will also engage the White Sox more seriously in their pursuit of Jose Quintana to bolster their starting rotation. The Rockies would certainly have centerpiece options in young OF David Dahl or top SS/2B prospect Brendan Rodgers to entice the White Sox.
Dont like Quintana nearly as much as Chris Archer at elevation. Dont get me wrong….Quintana is very solid….but a high flyball rate and low k rate arent optimal. I’d want atleast the k rate to offset contact
Jose Quintana can’t match Chris Archer’s strikeout rate per nine innings but he isn’t too shabby, especially in his last 3 seasons with 8.0, 7.7 and 7.8 rates. “Q” also has better command with fewer walks per 9 than Archer and has managed to give up fewer HR/9 despite pitching half his games in a far more hitter friendly park. Quintana’s has a 0.8 HR/9 career rate compared to Archer’s 0.9 metric. The gap last season wasn’t even more pronounced with Archer allowing 1.3 HR’s per 9 innings compared to Quintana’s 1.0 figure.
Both pitchers have been plenty durable over the past 3 seasons but Quintana has been far more consistent. In addition to pitching in a homer friendly park, “Q” has been negatively affected by a poor defense in Chicago while Archer has benefited from better glove work behind him, especially with the elite play in CF from Kevin Kiermaier.
Nationals ought to be calling rick Hahn right about now begging for Robertson/Jones. The closer market is dry and their bullpen needs go beyond just that… I think they screwed up big waiting on the market…
Any chance for even a glimmer of interest with the white sox and boom we end up with a post from you trying to peddle robertson/quintana
The reason that quintana doesn’t make a ton of sense for colorado is because they play half their games in coors where a pitcher who largely depends on contract control is *likely* less effective. He could also see a large change to his pitches than someone like archer who is mostly fb/slider.
Quintana is a really good pitcher, it just doesn’t make sense for the rockies to give up as much talent to acquire him with the possibility that he is less effective in their home park. With that said, the rockies seem to do exactly the opposite of what makes sense, so they will probably trade for him.
In Coors Field is not all about the home run, it’s about who gives up less fly balls because that huge outfield turns fly balls into doubles and triple that are outs everywhere else. If yu have a choice, go with the groundball pitcher.
You’re comparing Quintana and Archer straight up. Im not really saying that Quintana in a blind test might not be the preference. Im talking specifically throwing half their starts in Coors. Its not just HR….Coors has a massive outfield…something Chicago does not. In Coors Id want to minimize contact. Truthfully…NEITHER is the absolute perfect starter there. I’d want a high K rate AND high GB%….but doesnt appear Toronto is dealing Stroman.
These are all good points about Quintana and Coors Field, but when the weather warms up, US Cellular or whatever it is called is just as much as a “band box” as Coors Field. If you can simply PITCH, the ballpark you play in is overrated!
No. It is not. That is why pitchers continue to struggle while in coors. As Redline mentioned, it’s not just about hrs
Thats not true on Coors…Coors is by far the most active offensive park in baseball…averages 11.5 runs a game…down from 13 though.
chesteraarthur
So, in essence you are saying “Q” makes little sense for the Rockies and Robertson would not be a good addition for the Nationals. lol
I’m saying Q doesn’t make sense for the rockies and that you don’t need to post the same stuff, multiple times, in every single topic that is even tangentially related to the white sox trade assets. You’re getting to the point of braves fans last summer trying to pawn off Teheran in every thread.
I thought it was Markakis.
How is Kershaw’s numbers at Coor Field?
I wont even go look….but I can tell you he gets rocked. But Id STILL take him for the Rockies in a hypothetical scenario…great pitchers stay great pitchers anywhere….maybe not at sea level form…but still excellent. To me there must also be something to the quick adjustment visiting players have to make when they fly in for a quick series. I wouldnt discount a slight psychological spookiness with Coors as well.
4.63 ERA in 103 IP over 17 starts.
The White Sox are in a clear rebuild mode with numerous attractive veteran assets in which to trade, including Jose Quintana, Jose Abreu and Nate Jones who might be considered premium due to their team friendly deals, production and still being in the prime years of their careers. Why wouldn’t they be of interest to fans of most baseball teams in comment sections when the notion of trades or player comparisons comes up?
The trade possibilities with the White Sox are far from the hypothetical ones that many fans bring up regarding players like Mike Trout and Bryce Harper. With Chicago, a trade of any of their veterans is very real and will most certainly happen in the very near future.
Good signing for Colorado. Dont know terms yet, but if he pitches well and they are in the hunt….hes valuable…. and they still have a valuable trade chip…or he walks after the season. Its alright unless Colorado is on the hook for that second season as per his reported demands.
Still need to get Desmond off of 1B and sign a 1B…get a frontline starter.
OK, how about killing two birds with one stone?
How much young talent would the Rockies be willing to give up for two White Sox All-Star’s still in their prime years and with affordable team control in 1B Jose Abreu and SP Jose Quintana?
Clearly they would have to start with a package that included both OF David Dahl and top SS/2B prospect Brendan Rodgers. Ian Desmond could then move to LF in place of Dahl while Rodgers is currently blocked by Trevor Story at SS and N.L. batting champ D.J. LeMahieu at 2B. What say you?
Other people have mentioned a trade that included both Quintana and Abreu to the Rockies, but Bridich has said on several occasions that Dahl is off the table in any trade talks. If the White Sox wanted to center the trade around Blackmon, Rodgers and some other prospects for Abreu and Quintana then those two teams may be able to get together on a trade.
Quintana, Abreu to Rox and the Sox get Rodgers, Pint, Tapia and Parra’s bad contract.
Boom! Steak Dinner.
Bridich has said that Dahl and Pint are not available. The rest, yes. Maybe Freeland and the rest of your trade.
I really like Abreau in Colorado…he drives to the gaps so well. Im not sold on Quintana at Coors..like I said above. I dont think Rodgers is blocked. LaMehieu only has a year left on his deal…and Rodgers hasn’t made it out of A ball yet. Im for freeing Desmond up to allow freedom for a trade….but why not just sign Chris Carter and use pieces for a frontline starter. I do think we’ll see Colorado make a KC/James Shields for Wil Myers type of deal at some point.
abreu has seen a consistent decrease in slg, wOBA, and wRC+. He’s increased his ifb rate each year and has increased soft contact while decreasing hard contact. That fits with him making more contact each year on pitches outside the zone. It seems like pitchers have learned what he’ll chase
True…but he can rake in Coors even chasing….Gallaraga style.
Who did Abreu have protecting him in the Chicago lineup during his 3 seasons?
Adam Dunn, Adam LaRoche and a below average Todd Frazier last season. He would absolutely rake in Coors Field… or even in Houston in another expanded Quintana/Abreu trade I suggested with the Astros earlier this week.
Btw-Abreu also had some personal situations impacting his performance with the White Sox. In his rookie season in a new country he was surrounded by fellow Cuban friends Dayan Viciedo and Alexei Ramirez who recruited him heavily to join the club when he was an international free agent. Viciedo was released before his second season began while Ramirez contract option was not renewed last year. Abreu also had a spectacular second half last year when he was reunited with his son in Chicago last July. We are all human beings but most of us can’t relate to Abreu’s personal situation. Just saying…
Line up protection isn’t a thing. Google it. There has been little evidence to support that protection increases the offensive performance of an individual hitter.
If he slumped without his buddies in chi (what a ridiculous claim) why would that be any different in Colorado? Is this seriously the type of argument you resort to?
And why is he going to all of a sudden become awesome moving from Chi to Houston?
It’s really easy to just make claims that can’t be argued because they aren’t based on facts, but that doesn’t make them valid arguments.
I wont resort to the other argument…but I will say that declaring Abreu as having eroding skills might be just a tad premature. Hes also playing on arbitration now. I just like his skill set for Coors is all….its all dependent on cost to acquire…its a hypothetical.
Tom Tango did an article that says that lineup protection is a very real thing. He is about the most brilliant sabremetrician there is.
The funny thing I find in many of those that are deep into sabremetrics is how closed minded they become over subtle nuance. They get to be as close minded as the old school baseball types they loathe. Some of these stats…batting order construction…etc….were talking about 1-2 run differential a SEASON.
I don’t feel the “win now” description is necessarily accurate. The Rockies have a decent farm system that they haven’t really tapped yet on the trade market. They made a couple of signings after stating they would increase payroll. Win now, in my mind, means they deal Dahl or Rodgers for pitching. There has to be a term that exists between “sell” and “win now”.
Sure, but they sacrificed a very valuable draft pick for a strange signing in Desmond, and are playing him at a position where his bat will be weak for the price.
It was a very strange move and not a good one.
They aren’t in win-now, they are in limbo
Desmond was very strange…and I havent bought that the real intent was to play him at 1B. Im suspicious they want to extend CarGo and dont want to block his eventual move to 1B by signing someone long term there. I think Colorado has a plan…it just takes luck and skill to pull it off. We’ll see if signing Holland triggers another attempted move for them.
If that was their plan, wouldn’t it make way more sense to not give up the 11th pick and sign someone who actually plays first base who just happens to be available for cheaper and less years?
The only reason I can think on Desmond is his defensive versatility. I just dont but they longterm want Desmond there. He gave them options. Why punt the draft pick?? Perhaps because you know you’ll be gutting the farm system soon on deals anyway…..who knows
so they’re gonna waste the first and likely most athletic year of the contract by playing him at 1b so they can have 4 years of versatility as he continues to age? That just doesn’t seem very smart to me. And if you’re gutting your system soon, wouldn’t it make more sense to keep the pick and draft at 11 so you can trade that player?
I agree with you that him at 1b isn’t/wasn’t their plan. And if their plan was to sign him this year and then move him to the of next year and resign cargo that doesn’t make a ton of sense either because cargo’s bat doesn’t really play well at 1b either.
Could be way off, but I can’t help but think they signed desmond with the expectation that they could move one of their ofs for more than any team ended up offering.
I really dont know. I suspicion they went rear end backwards with Desmond. Unless they think they know something about Desmond. Punting the #11 would have made sense IF it had given them a negotiating advantage on someone like Bautista or another fa that had a constricted market because of the QA. The chance of them getting the value from an 11 pick that theyd have gotten from Desmond/Bautista or Trumbo? would be very minimal.
I dont think they are done. I think we see them very active throughout the year. But this is what I’D do with the Rockies..and they like to throw some curveballs. Good gracious! Go short on Chris Carter…move Desmond someplace and deal for a starter. Give Holland something to save. You either KEEP building the mlb roster or you stall out.
Jerry DiPoto would have traded for Chris Archer AND Jose Quintana by now..lol. Sonny Gray….who knows.
Hilarious…I got moderated for some reason. Really? I didnt think they existed here anymore with all the trash talk ive seen. Oh i used the term “r ear end backwards” really??
It got pretty hot in the Ventura Death post the other day and someone came in and wiped out about 50 comments
Still awaiting moderation….been 6 hours…good gracious…and for nothing.
I literally posted about the Rockies…”perhaps they went about the winter r ear end backwards with Desmond” not a** backwards…i moderated myself and it STILL got me
Moderate the son of a gun already!!!!! Been like 26 hours
If I’m Holland, this is the last place I want to go to rebuild my value.
At least they didn’t give him his crazy 2 guaranteed with an opt out
Jose Abreu to Rockies for Dahl and McMahon. Move Desmond back to OF where his talents are best suited and bring in a guy who could club 40 HRs there from 1B. Sox get need at OF and lottery prospect. Thoughts?
There is no way the rockies should give up dahl alone for abreu.
Bridich has said several times this offseason that Dahl is not available in any trade discussions. So that is a no.
Oh my goodness no. Abreu is declining fast and he doesn’t touch Dahl’s value. He’s worth about a 5-10 ranked prospect in a system as good as the Rockies’ .. .McMahon alone or him and a lotto ticket.
Quintana and Jennings for Rodgers, Tapia (nowhere to play and Dahl likely is off limits as he hit in his MLB debut), and Pint?
They don’t get Rodgers AND Pint. That’s two top-20 type prospects, and Q’s not worth that. If the Rox are dealing for Q (and that’s a big if because he doesn’t really fit Coors) I don’t think they offer either one, but if so only one.
I dont think youll see Dahl and Rodgers dealt..adding pieces wont make it happen. I actually think its Trevor Story they might try and deal.
Probably a no on Pint, but Freeland would be a possibility.
Considering you are talking about the Rockies #1 and consensus top 10 overall prospect in Rodgers, #2-4 Rockies prospect and consensus top 75 prospect in Tapia (depending on the scouting service), and another top 10 Rockies prospect in Freeland (#6-8 depending on the scouting service), that should be more than enough for Quintana plus another player. Not so sure the Rockies have a need for Jennings now. Seems like they would be more interested in Abreu so they could move Desmond to the OF where he belongs and one more mid-level prospect like a Justus who has incredible upside but has control problems or a guy like Tinoco who has the ceiling of a mid-rotation starter but has a higher floor than Justus could get a trade done for both Quintana and Abreu.
Making that trade pretty much makes trading Blackmon or Cargo a necessity. Blackmon would bring the better package right now, so that would make more sense.
This is who I was hoping the jays would target for their 8th inning guy.
But I guess we never had a chance with Osuna in the closers spot. We couldn’t insult him and demote him to the 8th while giving the closers role to someone coming off TJ while also trying to “contend”
Such is life. I guess Biagini and Grilli will be battling for the 7/8 roles
I see the same problem trying to sign wood. He wants to be a starter and we can’t give him any garuntee. He would be brought in as the main lefty and mop up in a blow out.
Blevins? Is he worth 6 plus million for a loogy
Better then Loop I guess
I was close on the 7 with incentives. Not sure I took him to 14m. He does well if he performs.
It’s $7 million guaranteed with the option buyout. Just $6 million in 2017. The incentives are all for 2018 according to ESPN 1600 in Denver.
All I know is someone in Oakland WAY overpaid for Santiago Casilla. Same base salary basically. Holland is risk…but so is Casilla. The deal I love went under the radar, but Cincinnati got Drew Storen for 2.5. That’s solid if hes healthy.
Now we know why he signed with Colorado. Not many teams would offer that much for someone who has not pitched in over a year.
Weird world. Same basic deal as Casilla in Oakland…..big overpay…then Storen gets 2.5 in Cincinnati.
Interesting signing, my first inclination was to think he wasn’t smart signing in the ballpark where Nolan Arrendo can post a 1.030OPS at home and have that translate to just a 132WRC+ but I was surprised last year seeing how effective Jon Grey’s slider played in Coors. I know Holland has a nasty slider but it’s not as hard as Grey’s 90mph pitch which may negate the “Coors Effect” of ruining breaking balls.
Slider-Sinker combos are the bees knees in Denver.
Everybody tries to pitch low in the zone at Coors, but the dry air also makes it tough to throw good breaking pitches.
A sinker isnt necessarily a breaking pitch. It can be grip related like Orel Hershiser…killer 2 seam fastball. Uses the leather to sink..not the seams. Ubaldo Jimenez thrived at Coors with one.
What do you think a 2 seam FB does? It has everything to do with how a pitcher uses finger pressure against one of the seams that creates the desired rotation on the ball that makes a fastball run, cut, or sink. A slick ball with only leather and no seams would be impossible to make break.
Ubaldo threw mid to high 90’s back then. His pitching profile has changed quite a lot since his Coors days.
Two seam with fingers across the narrow and not the horseshoe. Sinks naturally…some have a knack for it better than others. Dont have to rely on breaking it off and risk hanging one in Coors. I had a pretty good one in my day. Good one is 7ish off the 4 seam. Orel Hershiser was my man.
Sure, Ubaldos profile changed….but take him in 2007 as a model of how to succeed at elevation. High K high gb%. Sure…its like rubbing a lamp and trying to get a genie to grant a wish…but it can be done. I believe the bulk just has to come from the system….not vets who have to relearn to pitch in Denver.
Pretty much what I thought he’d get and why i thought he’d be amazing in the Cubs bullpen while being relatively cheap for how good he could possibly be. Said a 1 year deal worth $7M…. max 2 year deal for $14M. Pretty much what he got. I was told I was crazy and valuing him too low at the time. I am tooting my own horn right now.
Imagine,
Carl Edwards, Pedro Strop, Greg Holland, Hector Rondon, and Wade Davis as the backend….. sh**, at that point that is pretty much the entire bullpen aside from a couple lefty specialists and Justin Grimm. would’ve been NASTY.
When did you say that…for a little while people here have been hammering his alleged 2/20 demand. Casilla was like 6…so i knew that was bottom end. Was more the option than the cash that hung me up
nationals… your gonna regret this one
Gotta hand it to Boras. Getting $7M guaranteed for a 31yo RP coming off TJ, with a chance to hit $10M w/o even closing. Not a huge fan, but he gets the job done with regularity.
On a one year guarantee? This is a shockingly low deal for a guy of his talent. Great get for Rox.
7m is basically hedging hes a setup man…anything more and hes worth what he ends up getting paid. Fairly structured deal from what I see. Still like Storen in Cincinnati for 2.5….but Santiago on multi years for 6 per in Oakland…not getting that one.
I like the Rockies all they need to do now is Trade Blackmon use those prospects there prospects and Trade for Quintana and Abreu and they’d be the Cubs biggest threat in NL
Better hope Quintana doesn’t land in Pittsburgh….they could be very solid with a rotation like that….LOTS of rebound in that Pirates squad I believe. I love Quintana in Pittsburgh scenario wise
Did you forget about the Dodgers and Nats?
Yes, and with a healthy rotation the Mets will be dangerous as well.
Rockies=1st in NL WEST?
More like darkhorse wild card team.
Yup. It’s looking like the only team in the NLW with no hope of competing this season is the Padres. And before you ask, without as many key injuries and with bounce-back seasons from Grienke and Miller, Arizona could very well be a force in the division.
The Cardinals front office frustrates me! I can’t understand why they would not take on Holland for the same contract??? A healthy Holland is better than who they have.
Player preference? I don’t know that…but it IS one thing we generally aren’t privy to. Some players take open bidding….some might let their agents work the phones with some teams. Just saying its not a pond where teams might have equal chance to catch fish.
don’t understand holland signing bad place to play worse place to pitch. After surgery you need big park because velocity is not consistent as well as location. Also Denver is worst place to try to relearn breaking pitches. I assume Denver over paid for him.
Was hoping the Dodgers would take the chance on him. I hope he does well though as he seems to be a well liked guy
This is, I think, the 3rd updated posting about this signing and still not a word about the details of the vesting option..!?
If i understand the vesting option correctly, that’s an extraordinary deal he’s struck for himself. $8M guaranteed, $23M guaranteed if he just manages to get in to 50 games, even if he’s not effective enough to be used in closing/high leverage situations. The Rockies had three pitchers last year with over 50 appearance, and another four in the forties.
Thanks Mike156.
According to 104.3 The Fan, Holland’s contract is $7 million guaranteed. $6 million for 2017 with a $1 million option buyout. The option vests if he both has 50 appearances and 30 GF. Regardless of whether it vests or not, the Rockies can choose to buy out the option year for $1 million. If it vests Holland will get the choice of whether or not to accept $15 million for 2018 or opt out and go for a multi-year deal. If it doesn’t vest then it becomes a mutual option for 2018 for $10 million with $8 million in incentives. Great deal for both sides. If he vests and pitches like he did before his injury then he is well worth $15 million in 2018 when you consider the deals Jansen and Chapman signed.
A 15 million dollar player option and all he has to do is make 50 appearances. That is hard to believe.
So it’s a player option only, then? If that’s the case, he’s got a chance to really cash-in,
by opting out (if he regains his former excellence, in 2017) and going back on the
market for a potential multiple tens of millions guaranteed.
He has to finish 30 games as well…thats the value.
Great signing for COL. Either he returns back to form they lengthen their bullpen and cut the starters inning down. Then if COL is competing they can keep him for the entire year, or if they are not have that $7M go towards prospects in a trade. If he flops then its not too much wasted in a gamble.
Any kind of trade clause(s), in the agreement..?
I’d watch out for the Rockies in the NL west this year