White Sox lefty Carlos Rodon has received an initial recommendation that he undergo Tommy John surgery, Jon Heyman of MLB Network reports on Twitter. He’s headed in for a second opinion before a final course is set.
It was already known that a full ulnar collateral ligament replacement was possible for the 26-year-old southpaw. But that scarcely draws the sting for the Chicago organization, which already lost another of its other top young arms when Michael Kopech underwent the dreaded (but often career-saving) procedure last season.
If Rodon does indeed require TJS, he’ll be down for the entire remainder of the 2019 season. His rehab would surely stretch into the 2020 campaign as well. The best-case scenario, presuming steady progress on a fairly conservative timetable, would likely be a return next summer.
Perhaps there’s still hope that Rodon can avoid the procedure. Other hurlers have rehabbed through UCL injuries and there are some alternatives that don’t require quite as long a layoff. The possibilities and odds aren’t really clear at this point.
Regardless, it’s clear that Rodon will be sidelined for a lengthy stretch. That’s too bad, as the former third overall pick had in some ways been in his finest form as a big leaguer thus far in 2019.
While his 5.19 ERA on the season isn’t much to look at, Rodon was punching out opposing hitters at a 11.9 K/9 rate on a 12.1% swinging-strike rate while maintaining a 18.3% K%-BB%. Those are all career-best figures. Rodon is also surrendering more hard contact to go with the unsightly ERA, so clearly there were some kinks still to be worked out in his newly four-seam heavy approach.
Fortunately, even if Rodon does need a new ligament, he’ll have ample hope of returning to full health and rejoining the pursuit of his not-insignificant ceiling. He’s playing on a $4.2MM salary this year and has two more arb years remaining. In the event of season-ending surgery, the White Sox will have to stake something around that amount (perhaps adding a small raise) in order to maintain control over Rodon for his final two seasons of arbitration eligibility.
These vaunted White Sox prospects aren’t exactly setting the world on fire. Funny the player that’ll probably end up the best is Tim Anderson.
Rodon isn’t a prospect anymore. He’s been a major leaguer for multiple years now. No prospect is expected to come up and set fire to the league either. Some do though; and that’s great, but most face a 1-2 year learning curve. Case and point is Moncada. Struggled in a lot of aspects, but learned and worked hard and has really cut down this year in those areas.
Long story short, I think you’re judging these prospects too early still. Most of them still haven’t even reached the majors. If they are struggling after that 1-3 major league grace period, then there will be some cause for concern; but there is still a lot of time. As far as Anderson, he’s always been a lauded prospect for us as well and now he’s finally getting settled in as our shortstop of the future and showing people what he’s capable of. Another perfect example of the 1-2 year learning curve at the major league level.
That’s 1-2 year grace period. I goofed.
There will always be prospects that catch fire AFTER that grace period too. It just takes some people longer to learn; but I think this will be a good, young team in 2-3 years.
Also lot of people these days have wholly unrealistic expectations of what most prospects are thanks to the rare but highly publicized immediate success of some in recent years.
And the internet has never had the patience to be fair to the guys who start slow. 2 seasons ago any mention of Javy Baez would have gotten you dozens of ‘experts’ writing him off as a bust.
Consistency is the key for the young group, learning to cope with failure and playing the adjustment/league readjustment game. This group has shown flashes against top tier competition : the capacity to show up to play tonight against the Indians and taking series the last few yrs against the Yankees while scuffling against the Tigers and Royals comes to mind.
Can we call this guy a bust yet?
@PopeMarley
Silly comment. Eloy has played in all of 21 career MLB games, Robert is still in AA, Cease is still in AAA, etc. A little early to write off the prospects, don’t you think? Apparently not, otherwise you wouldn’t have posted that silly comment.
Consistency is the key for the young group, learning to cope with failure and playing the adjustment/league readjustment game. This group has shown flashes against top tier competition : the capacity to show up to play tonight against the Indians and taking series the last few yrs against the Yankees while scuffling against the Tigers and Royals comes to mind.
Not to mention, this represents the first of a few wave of prospects: Gonzalez, Basabe, Rutherford, Collins, Madrigal, Walker, Dunning, Hansen et al on their way…
Yah, that Moncada guy is a total bum. Funny how quickly he has been written off.
@Priggs89
Amen! The White Sox might still end up ahead in the deal 5 years from now. Not saying they definitely will, but the possibility is real. Not every player has the progression of Mike Trout. Some take a lot longer to figure it out (look at Baez for the Cubs as one example). I really like what I see from Moncada this year, both offensively and defensively (even though he and TA are starting to rack up the errors). He and TA both look a lot better defensively.
Most White Sox fans were expecting this news. Carlos Rodon has had an unfortunate history of arm trouble since making his MLB debut and would join a growing list of promising young White Sox pitchers who have needed TJ surgery since they began their rebuild in December of 2016. This would include two other perceived core SP’s in Michael Kopech and Dane Dunning, along with a potential closer in Zack Burdi.
Why do White Sox fans want to claim the rebuild started the day they traded Sale?
@ Bocephus—seems convenient that it fits the calendar a month after the Cubs won the World Series. I’m guessing the fact that they drafted Rodon before Schwarber in 2014 and Fulmer before Happ in 2015 didn’t count as rebuilding even though they were near the top of the draft board. If you’re not trying to rebuild with high draft picks then you might as well make up arbitrary dates. All teams are always rebuilding.
mike127: As I’ve already noted, GM Rick Hahn convinced his two bosses that a White Sox rebuild was in order during the summer of 2016, before the Cubs actually won their first Word Series in 108 years. Hahn insisted that the best way for the White Sox to become perennial contenders following their own 2005 World Series title was to forsake their typical philosophy of reloading and retooling in favor of a full-fledged rebuild, similar to what the Royals, Astros and Cubs had done in the previous decade.
If you recall, the White Sox had tried to continue their usual manner of building a winner when they had traded for James Shields earlier in the 2016 season for eventual top noted prospect Fernando Tatis Jr. I believe that failure was the final straw for Hahn who then convinced his bosses that a new strategy for building a winning team was in order.
The 2016 Winter Meeting trades of Chris Sale and Adam Eaton more or less confirmed rumors that the White Sox were actually undergoing a full fledge rebuild rather than another one of their typical reload or retools that they had been noted for in the Jerry Reinsdorf era. GM Rick Hahn admitted as much in his subsequent press conferences.
Reportedly Hahn had finally convinced his owner and Executive VP Kenny Williams that a rebuild was in order the previous summer when they began fielding trade offers for their best veteran players. Those reports became reality during the subsequent Winter Meeting when both Sale and Eaton were dealt for 7 prospects that included Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe, Victor Diaz, Reynaldo Lopez, Lucas Giolito and Dane Dunning, all of whom are still members of the White Sox organization.
It took NO CONVINCING! JERRY IS A SNAKE AND A SCUMBAG! He only looks out for his own pockets and wants to lose because winning costs him maybe 8% of his yearly billions in profits
I guess they’d just rather believe that the 5 seasons prior to that was just honest sucking?
Honest sucking, not playing to their potential, mediocre baseball….call it what you will, but yes, that’s what they’d believe.
@petrie000
That’s exactly what it was, honest sucking, though they put lipstick on a pig (as Dr. Phil would say) and called it reloading/retooling. There wasn’t a competent gameplan in place at that time, just sling spit at the wall and see what sticks.
They have a gameplan now with the rebuild, though it’s blown up in their faces because of all the severe injuries. Now if things go right, it will be at least 2021 before they’re competitive.
I’m just waiting for Lopez to be the next one to go under the knife, or maybe Cease again.
@Bocephus and @mike127
Do you understand the basic concept of a rebuild? If what you call what the Sox were doing before the Sale trade a rebuild, that is the worst attempt of a rebuild in the history of sports. Yes, because any team going for a deep rebuild is going to sign a has-been like LaRoche, or trade prospects for a washed up pitcher in Shields. Simply getting high draft picks and calling that a rebuild is great is you want the rebuild to last 10 years.
It’s not that hard, guys. It’s really not.
Because the teardown was thorough with trades of Sale, Q, Eaton, Robertson, Frazier Kahnle and any veteran with value all within a season. The Sale and Q represented a transcendent all in move- ( or in this case, all out)
Because that’s when the rebuild actually started. Being bad =/= rebuilding. They were actually trying to win before trading Sale – and yes, they were doing an awful job.
They DID fail miserably even though the two winters prior they were almost unanimously declared the ‘winners of the off season” for the moves they made.
The problem with the White Sox is they did a backwards rebuild, and traded proven young talent for unproven younger talent. Nobody else used that plan successfully (or even unsuccessfully). I will give Williams and Hahn points for Originality, but that shouldn’t count for much.
@ stymeedone——that’s exactly right….and only because of proximity and a championship, compare trading Sale (and even Quintana) to this list.
Scott Feldman for Arrieta and Strop
Dempster for Hendricks
Cashner for Rizzo
Samardzija for Russell
Valbuena for Fowler
The Cubs gave up almost all no all star talent (a couple of serviceable players) to build a foundation. The Sox traded a potential hall of famer (Sale) to build. Current struggles aside—-he would still be the anchor of the staff.
The problem with the White Sox is the same problem with the Bulls. Reinsdorf. His inexplicable loyalty to inept front office s has rendered both teams an irrelevant joke. Chicago is a major market, no excuse. Once JR is gone I’ll bet both the W Sox and the Bulls will thrive.
Exactly Bryzzo, the Sox main problem without a doubt is Reinsdorks cheapness. He has a sweet ballpark rental deal with Illinois and he still expects to achieve success ‘on the cheap’. He won’t spend money unless it’s a real bargain. He got lucky with MJ and someway expects lightning to hit twice.
He’s also ripped off AZ and FLA taxpayers. By the time they could get to being a .500 team – Rodon and Abreau will be free agents.
40 years.
I wouldn’t say backwards, personally I think their one mistake so far is targeting too many pitchers in their big trades. Those are always the most volatile prospects.
Truth. Positional player prospects are a much safer bet. That was formula Houston and the Cubs used. Drafting stud position players. The Astros deviated from that the year they passed on Bryant for Mark Appell, but other than that, they stayed true to the formula.
I agree. It’s nice to load up on SP’s because you never know who will bust or end up with TJ surgery, but they should’ve went for a few more position players.
The only trade where they “targeted pitching” was the Eaton deal. Pitching was secondary (albeit still great pieces) in both the Sale and Q deals.
Most teams embarking on a full-fledge rebuild didn’t have valuable young veteran players on team-friendly contracts that also happened to be expiring in a few years. Give some credit to Rick Hahn who actually negotiated those deals for Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton when Kenny Williams was calling most of the shots for the White Sox. Since Hahn became GM he has parlayed those contracts into a bevy of top prospects which should expedite a normal 5-6 year rebuild into one that might only take 4 years.
The White Sox have been negatively impacted with some tough injuries to many of their best young talents but Hahn’s trades, along with prioritizing college talent in recent June Drafts as well as their apparent HR with Luis Robert as an international FA, could offset that misfortune. For the White Sox to reach the promised land they will need solid player development, Hahn continuing his penchant for making shrewd trades including from his new stockpile of prospects, along with owner Jerry Reinsdorf stepping up with the necessary dollars for extensions and free agency.
What Hahn and Williams did was parlay what should have been a contender into a rebuild. Take away the players they got back. Add the players they traded away : Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Sieman, Robertson. How would that look as a base to compete this Year in a weak Central division. It would have been strong enough to possibly entice ownership to add a midlevel starter or two. Anybody can trade young, cheap, cost controlled All-stars for a bunch of unproven players. Just wait until they trade Anderson and Eloy for a bunch of prospects in a couple years when this team gets to the point that spending money is needed to add talent. Sure, tell me it won’t happen. No one was expecting them to move Sale while he was signed dirt cheap either.
That team looks like a .500 team, honestly… Because it WAS a .500 team.
A .500 team ownership tried adding a mid-level starter too, on more than one occasion (samardzija, shields). And still wound up a .500 team.
The definition of insanity is trying the same thing repeatedly, and expecting a different result.
The problem was that for years the Sox, like many tweeners in the AL: Detroit, Anaheim, Toronto, Texas attempted that type of patchwork approach. The Sox tried winning the offseason with high profile signings of Shark, Robertson, and the Adams and the illfated Big Game Shields and it got them a 78 win season in 16. Not awful- but a perpetual state of being mired in mediocrity. To Hahns credit, he realized the approach of going for it every year with free agent signings of vets entering the down side of their careers- paying for past production – was not sustainable. Seeing the successful template of the Rays, Astros and Cubs as templates, the prudent thing was to deal from a position of strength: maximize returns by trading 3 young and productive assets on team friendly deals while they still had a lot of value. Theres no way they would have commanded the return if they waited till Sale, Q and Eaton were a year or two away from free agency. The point is to not grab lightning in a bottle and steal a winnable AL central every 3 years with an 87 win season, but to build a behemoth like the Stros or Cubs from the ground up.
Those teams featuring Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Sieman and Robertson failed miserably, possibly due in part to the disruptive nature of some of those guys in the clubhouse.
knuck2: A clubhouse that also featured a major disruption with the Adam Laroche fiasco that split the team into factions with Chris Sale and Adam Eaton in full support of his son Drake becoming their “26th” man while Jose Abreu and others opposed the notion.
The dugout was also headed by a less than inspiring manager in Robin Ventura.who probably had no business being named their skipper in the first place. Ventura’s demeanor was the antithesis of their previous manager Ozzie Guillen but that alone should not have been a sufficient reason for a change. RV lacked experience not only as a manager at any level but also as a coach prior to his hiring.
@AaronSapoznik
I was going to mention the same thing (more or less). People forget Sale pretty much ran himself out of town with his off-field antics. Why did he get traded? 2 reasons: (1) He provided the most trade value and (2) it was either him or KW. And to head people off at the pass, yes, I would pick Sale over KW myself. But that’s not up to me, that’s JR’s call, and everyone knew JR’s picking KW over Sale.
Keep in mind, Sale was not going to sign an extension had he stayed in Chicago, because of KW. In fact, I think with Sale pushing the envelope so much at KW, he was subtly demanding to be traded. I’m sure he was sick of having his talents wasted on a mediocre team year after year, even if he never expressed it out loud.
Trading Sale was the smart play. Keeping him pretty much guaranteed more mediocre seasons. The only problem with making trades for prospects is you never know how the prospects will pan out. You either look like a genius or an idiot when trading stars for blue chip prospects. You could either get a Bartolo Colon trade from the Indians to the Expos or a Miggy trade from the Marlins to the Tigers.
And yes, RV should never have been a manager for the Sox, or least should never have lasted 5 years. Loved RV as a player, but was a horrible manager.
@stymeedone
That’s silly. Sure they could “compete” in the weak Central division this year, and if by some miracle the Sox would win the division with the guys you mentioned, they would get laughed out of the playoffs. They’d be lucky not to get swept.
I like how you say “unproven players”, like these guys were marginal prospects. Moncada, Kopech, Cease, Eloy, Lopez, Giolito, and Dunning all landed in the Top 100 prospect list, and all but Dunning made it in the Top 50 (and Dunning still might in the next year or two). Technically they are unproven, but that’s the risk you take trading a star for blue-chip prospects. It could go either way, like Colon to the Expos, or Miggy from Florida to Detroit.
They aren’t trading TA and Eloy. That’s beyond silly. The only guy they might’ve traded was Rodon, and there’s no chance of that happening now.
I’ll post this again. 2 reasons Sale got traded: (1) he provided the most trade value and (2) it was either him or KW, due to Sale’s antics his final season in Chicago. Sale wanted out without actually saying so. There was no chance of extending him as long as KW was there. And yes, I’d choose Sale over KW also, but that’s not my choice, I don’t own the team.
My question: Would you rather be mediocre for 10 to 15 years OR be horrible for 3 to 5 years then be a WS contender for the next 5 years? I take the latter every time, even though I know the risk that the rebuild might not pan out. It would be silly to keep a star and be content with mediocrity through the life of his contract knowing there’s no chance of rising above mediocrity over that lifespan.
@stymeedone
Now your statement about no team ever trading proven young talent for even unproven younger talent.
Bartolo Colon for Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Brandon Phillips
Shelby Miller for Dansby Swanson and Ender Inciarte
Aroldis Chapman for Gleyber Torres (and others)
The 3 way trade involving Trevor Bauer going from Arizona to Cleveland (Shin -Soo Choo was part of the trade)
I’m sure there’s others, my point is the Sale trade for prospects isn’t an unprecedented trade, and seeing this abbreviated list, shows the team receiving prospect(s) benefiting from the trade. I’m surprised you even wrote this with the Colon trade being the best example of thriving after receiving prospects for a young star.
Maybe unproven, But can hardly say the Sale deal was a bust. moncada is working out and kopech was looking really good before undergoing the knife. Other 2 were wildcards in that deal. 1 a 100mph thrower with -0- control and 1 of the basabe twins.
It worked for the 2003 Marlins. Trades after 1999, when rebuild began netted them Pierre, Willis, Encarnacion, Lowell, Pavano and Penny.
Anything but a White Sox fan, but I hate seeing this. Young athletes like Kopech and Rodon losing a year plus from their careers/development. Hopefully they both come back strong.
That was a very nice comment, Bryzzo. You can be very pleasant and level headed when you want lol. And I agree. Always a bummer for a young ball player to have to go through that regardless what team he’s on.
Another victim of modern baseball training.
Yeah, they should have just made him power through it, that way he’d know his career was over by next season
The good old days, amirite?
/whoosh
Second recommendation was to cut the arm off, so he’s going with the first.
Hey, if the Sox need a starter I have a trade proposal: Cubs send Q to Sox for Eloy and Dylan Cease. Oh, wait…
The Sox have been hit hard with injuries the past two seasons to a few of their young, talented players. It’s time for Rick Hahn and Kenny Williams to offer “Jobu cigar and rum.”
I wouldn’t mind seeing Keuchel and Kimbrel after the June draft. At that point, it’s only money (not mine) and the AL Central is definitely weak.
There are draft pick compensation considerations to signing at least one of those guys, maybe both. Not something a rebuilding team wants to relinquish.
Each had the stigma of a QO which will disappear following the conclusion of the June Rule 4 Draft in four weeks, as dazedatnoon implied in his comment.