If his longstanding plan to retire at season’s end holds up, Yankees left-hander CC Sabathia has thrown the last pitch of his illustrious career. The 39-year-old suffered a shoulder injury during a relief appearance in New York’s Game 4 loss to Houston on Thursday, forcing the Yankees to pull him from their ALCS roster. That means even if the Yankees manage to overcome what’s now a 3-2 deficit against the mighty Astros to advance to the World Series, Sabathia won’t be eligible to participate in the Fall Classic.
Sabathia’s left to root for the Yankees to win it all without his help, though he told reporters it’s “kind of fitting” he’s going out this way. “I threw until I couldn’t anymore,” said Sabathia, whose left arm has been through the wringer since he debuted with the Indians back in 2001.
Between the regular season and the playoffs, Sabathia has amassed 3,707 2/3 innings. Also a former Brewer, whom he all but dragged to the playoffs in 2008 after they acquired him from the Indians, Sabathia has eclipsed 200 frames in eight different regular seasons. He fired 241 (the second-highest mark of his career) in 2007, his lone Cy Young-winning campaign.
Various injuries robbed Sabathia of the chance for another workhorse-type season in 2019, as he racked up a career-low 107 1/3 innings during his uncharacteristically ineffective swan song. Sabathia only pitched to a 4.95 ERA/5.66 FIP, but a subpar final season hardly overshadows the rest of a brilliant run in the majors. Owner of a lifetime 3.74 ERA/3.78 FIP, Sabathia’s going out as one of the premier starters in recent memory, giving him a legitimate chance for enshrinement in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
The question now is whether Sabathia should end up in Cooperstown, where he could earn a coveted plaque as early as 2025. As someone who ranks 16th all-time in strikeouts (3,093), 37th in pitcher fWAR (66.5), 48th in wins (251), 49th in pitcher bWAR (62.5) and 64th in regular-season innings (3,577 1/3), the credentials for strong consideration exist. He’s also a six-time All-Star, a one-time World Series champion (2009, when he was integral in the Yankees’ most recent title run) and, if it matters for his HOF odds, a revered teammate and leader. Whether all of that makes him a Hall of Famer is up for debate. What do you think?
(Poll link for app users)
No doubt. One of the best of his generation.
He’s no HOFer.
Agree. If he hadn’t been a Yankee, we wouldn’t even be discussing it.
Well, like it or not, which you obviously don’t, he was a Yankee which means that with the Yankees record of big games and big series, he pitched in more BIG games than many of his contemporaries who might have similar or even better stats.
Pasha2k wouldn’t know a HOF’er if he came up behind him/her and bit down….that’s interesting….is Pasha2k a guy or just a frustrated old hag looking for attention?
Wrong, his lifetime stats hold up no matter who he played for. You gotta put all of the top 30 strikeout guys all-time in the HOF.
Speaking of which, instead of putting longtime crud like Harold Baines in, where’s the veterans committee when it comes to Mickey Lolich, Frank Tanana, Chuck Finley, and David Cone? Kevin Brown too.
(Clemens, Schilling, Verlander, Greinke & Scherzer all need to go in too, but have issues of eligibility/still playing)
So if the majority here all dont agree with your opinion, were all just stupid. CC is not a hall of famer.
The game has changed. Strikeouts are not nearly as impressive today as they were in the past.
According to whom?
Typical Strike Four response.
But why do we need to put all top 30 strikeout guys in the hall of fame? Please elaborate.
Why is a top 30 strikeout a ticket to the hall of fame?
I notice you have no other argument other than Harold Baines? Which is irrelevant.
Further CC pitched in the strikeout era. Everyone strikes out now. No one cares. It is not impressive at all to be in the top 30 now let alone the fact he will not be in top 30 in K’s in five years when he is eligible let alone 20 years or so when he is on the ballot for the veterans committee still as he is not ever getting in.
You sound insecure rocky7.
Because playing baseball that long and getting that many K’s means YOU ARE GREAT AT BASEBALL?? My god, you really do not have a clue, do you? Strike outs might happen more than in the 60s, but they’re still a good thing for pitchers, UGH. SO DUMB.
Typical reply guy response from another clueless troll on here.
Harold Baines had TWO 3+ WAR seasons OUT OF 22!!!
STOP TROLLING ME. GO AWAY.
Schilling has no eligibility issue nor is he playing. Voters should look only at his resume with no credibility playing allegations. Clemens cheated the sport and should never be rewarded for helping to almost ruin baseball pitching records. All of your other pitchers were very good but not quite HOF worthy in my view other than perhaps Lolich. Tananarive was amazing but a bad arm ruined his arm. What about hitters. Albert Belle and Jeff Kent in addition to the three I always preach (Drwight Evans, Luis Tiant and Thurman Munson).
Strikeouts are important especially since no one will approach 300 in a season but other than Nolan Ryan who also had 7 no hitters to illustrate his dominance, wins for the traditional starter or even perhaps a new category, team wins on games you started should be a bigger factor. The game is played to win after all.
But to win a game the team must score runs which is an impossibility for a pitcher when pitching. Why should wins be a bigger factor when pitchers doesn’t win games, he does his best to prevent losing.
Why is 2,000 hits pretty much get you there, why is 400 hr a judge of it?
I think he gets in because of the 250+ wins, top 5 in cy young award 6 years in a row. If he left sooner he may not have had the counting stats but he would have been seen in a better light.for cy young. He held on just a little too long. .
Ontario, I believe no one stat should be the one factor, there will always be a de Grom unique situation but over time, wins lead to championships and this is a team sport. A good pitcher will win the 5-4 game but a great one will win 1-0 when he has to. Reminds me of the .300 hitter who gets his production with two outs and no one on base. I’d rather have that ,275 hitter who becomes a ,330 hitter with two outs and runners in scoring position. Be it a hitter or a pitcher, some pad their stats in non-stressful situations but big time players thrive when the game is on the line.
I know my players. Plus I don’t bk down with frustrated cyber bullying.
@macstruts
Strikeouts aren’t the only consideration but I don’t understand the “strikeouts are not nearly as impressive”. Even if hitters are selling out for homers it’s still something great pitchers can do and to do it for so long is impressive.
Here’s a stark reality.
CC has over 3,000 ks ranked 16th among all pitchers in history. Verlander just moved into the 3k club. Among active players, Scherzer, Greinke, Hamels and Felix are the ONLY pitchers within 500 ks of making 3k. If you look at the active players there’s 17 guys who have at least 1,507. None of them are under the age of 30. Of those 17 Ervin Santana, Liriano, Ian Kenned, Cueto, Oliver Perez, Nolasco, Edwin Jamckso and Porcello, are all way past their prime and have no shot of sniffing the hall and maybe not even 2,000 ks. Scherzer (2,692), Kershaw (2,464), Lester (2,355), Sale (2,007), Price (1,981), Bumgarner (1,794), Winright (1,776) and Strasburg (1,695) are still relatively good pitchers who probably will pitch at a high level for another 5 or 6 years but it’s likely that aside from Scherzer and Kershaw most will fall short of 3,000 ks. Same can be said about 250 wins.
Baseball HOF voting is still big on cumulative numbers. Aside from Verlander no one is even close to 3.000 ks and 250 wins. Hershaw and Scherzer will likely be in the elite level for another 3-5 years. but they and maybe Greinke might be the last 3,000 ks or 250 win candidates.
@Roll
More like 3,000 hits and 500 homers. Those are the shoe-in numbers.
Hey Rocky-you are right and Pashka is a crusty old mets fab. He loves his team abusing him.
Wow iron-you are so hard. Stop your nonsense and bend like you do when your wife say, “all fours”.
Poor take. Pitched on mostly bad Cleveland teams, had his coming out as a brewer and showed what he could do for an above average team in his prime. Finished his prime in the toughest division in baseball, re-learned how to pitch with lesser velo at the end of his career. Had he played in any other division on an average or better team, this wouldn’t be a discussion because he’d be a first ballot lock.
No hall of fame 3.78 era is not hall of fame worthy ,was dominate early , benefited from high power offensive teams he was on and had longevity
He also pitched in an era mired in PEDs and dominated in more than just his early years.
I wouldn’t call him a first ballot HOFer by any means but he’s definitely deserving of the nod.
Why is he deserving? Because he played in PED era? Why does that make CC a hall of famer?
His body of work is why. Forget any one stat. He should have to wait but is worthy. I hate endorsing Yankees’ players but I try to remain objective.
@wordonthestreet
I think you always have to consider the context of the time period.
The steroid era likely covers around 1996 to about 2013, the year Arod was suspended. Let’s just assume that most of the users ended the usage around that time. Aside from Cano and Manny I can’t remember a major star who’s been caught.
So from 96-2013 there were 26 different hitters who hit 350 homers during that time frame of 27 years. The previous 27 there was only 14. Many of the hitters on that list from 96-2013 are known to be associated with PEDS.
Conversely, the dead ball era of the 60s saw a ton of pitchers with ERA in the low 3s that weren’t exactly known names. Most not in the HOF. It was much easier to dominate as a pitcher in the 60s then it is right now. That allows us to add perspective to the conversation. Theoretically, a pitcher with a 3.50 ERA in Sabathia’s era is likely just as good as pitchers with a 3.00 ERA or lower. in the 60s. That’s what makes a guy like Kershaw, Sale and Max among the elite all-time and also makes a guy like Halladay, Sabathia and Schilling HOF worthy in today’s era.
Jack Morris 3.90
So what. Jack Morris is so much better than CC
Way better. Wait, you mean better at growing a mustache, right? Of course you do, you couldn’t mean better at pitching.
Jack Morris definitely belongs in the Hall of Very Good.
3.78 is low for the era he played in, grandpa.
No it’s not. 3.78 is good. Not great. He virtually had the same ERA+ as Chuck Finley.
Wouldn’t a grandpa know more about the era than a young kid? Gotta get your insults straight.
Grandparents often lose their marbles and think things were better back then than they are now, which is literally never ever true. Grow up.
No way!
What he did with the Brewers in 08 was LEGENDARY!
The criteria for who gets in has to change as the game changes. Will be very few to get to milestones like 300 W. The people who are adamant about him not getting in will probably only be able to name about 4 SP from the same generation to get in. When numbers change you have to adjust how you judge those who were the best of the time
@johnrealtime
True. CC is likely among the last 2 or 3 guys that might pitch 3,000 IP let alone match CC who has over 3,500 IP.
Check the link baseball-reference.com/leaders/IP_active.shtml and you can see that most of the guys that have at least 1,400 IP are almost all 30 or over aside from MadBum (29), Sale and Porcello who are 30.
CC, Verlander, Greinke, Sherzer and Kershaw might be the last pitchers to pitch 3,000 inning let alone 3,500. To put that in perspective, 71 players have thrown at least 3,500 innings. Of those 71 only 8 of them have pitched in the 90s and after. In the world of workhorses CC is among the last of a dying breed.
Oh pluuuuze, he was a good pitcher winsome really dominating yrs, but not like Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, Pedro. He is a NYY cry baby who brought on these injuries with his negligent care of his body, n adding in his heart condition too.
EAD big guy
Pasha is a she who enjoys ATM.
Pasha, he’s not the only one to let himself go in later years. However he also gave of himself in his earlier seasons. What he did with the Brewers was special. Overall his body of work in my view gets him in just not immediately.
Haha so he goes to the HOF for his two months with the Brewers? You are joking right?
It was one aspect of his career. He was great in Cleveland, got big money in NY where he helped win a WS and was a main reason most seasons why the team made the playoffs EVERY season.
Well if every pitcher had to compare to those three guys then there would be far fewer new HOFers. If you compare CC to the lower level HOFers and to other pitchers in the last 20 years I think you’ll find a guy that will have to wait a few years but should eventually get voted in.
Agreed.
Why do people insist on comparing players to the very best when determining if they are HOFers? There are a lot of guys in the HOF that are not as good as Ryan, Seaver, and Pedro. He compares very favorably with the AVERAGE Hall of Fame pitcher.
Agree!
Oh , sorry your honor…after all you know everything about baseball….you probably are from Hoboken and had a hand in inventing the game!
lol, you probably think no one who played in the 2000s deserves to be in the HOF
Jim Kaat deserves to be in the HOF before CC!
I agree!!!
Right on. Kaat is the guy who has been getting passed over the last 3 decades.
Kaat is deserving but so is CC in my view. First in though should be Schilling for his on field performances.
I agree on Schilling. What he did repeatedly in the post season was special. CC should be in. Just because he doesn’t look the part doesn’t mean he shouldn’t make it in. Guy was a workhorse for many years.
It’s not about Schilling not ‘looking the part’. It’s about him being a world class a-hole and bigot, along with promoting some heinous racial imagery and conspiracy theories. On the field, his credentials are inarguable. Off the field, he is defiantly loathsome.
The hall of fame should be about on field stats, and performance, not off field. While the off the field things makes the player more marketable it “should not” have any baring on votes for hall of fame.
Then tell the Hall of Fame that. Their own rules have a character clause for when you’re considering a player for the Hall.
Absolutely! Schilling, now.
The HOF literally has a “Character clause”, so sorry to disappoint you to let you know you dont decide anything about it – LOL
A character clause is there to exclude people who cheat and soil the game. That is applied differently than judging someone ‘s political views or social expression. Points of view are protected by the principle of free speech. Gambling or otherwise violating a cardinal rule of the league is not — and can be grounds for exclusion.
He’s not a “bigot”, he’s a person not afraid to speak the truth. He’s not wrong saying that a guy saying he’s a woman needs medical help not laws to protect his feelings. Everything he says is what most Americans think, but snowflakes who put feelings over facts write him off as a “bigot”. He has a right to think what he wants and it shouldn’t stop him from going in the HOF.
“Points of view are protected by the principle of free speech.”
Unless this is stated, and defined, in said clause, no they aren’t.
According to you? He was in Puerto Rico helping out.. Were you?
schilling’s politics are playing no role in him getting in.
fact is, guy was anti steroids til he could benefit from it, then flipped hard on them.
besides, it’s clear the guy was using anyways.
look at his stats up to 2001, he was solid at best. then turns 32, pulls out 4 huge seasons in a row.
not sorry, but no one just all of a sudden becomes elite at that age, with that many miles on them, without help (plus, we know guys like luis gonzalez, manny, and big papi have positive tests/ credible accusations of juicing attached to them).
so he’s not a hall of famer because of that (and besides, smoltz gave tons of cash and campaigned for republicans, still got in on his first try).
Curt’s political views are extreme. Downright stupid most of the time but that shouldn’t take away from his on field performance. Had he been an extreme leftist instead I’d be willing to bet his views wouldn’t have kept him out. And that’s certainly a problem. You may think his views are completely wrong but that has nothing to do with his performance on the field. He didn’t beat his wife or commit any other crime. He’s just a little bit of an idiot.
funny, your whining over shnowflakes putting feelings over facts describes right wing christians to a tee (i mean, after all, you guys take the bible as legit, but still want all sorts of protections for you guys. if that’s not the biggest group of people who use faith over facts in the world….)
“Had he been an extreme leftist instead I’d be willing to bet his views wouldn’t have kept him out this long.”
Yes, professional sports: known throughout the land for its leftist sympathies.
nope, he’d still wouldn’t be in even if he was an extreme “leftist” (what’s that anyways? someone who doesn’t treat everyone who isn’t them like garbage?)
he’s not in the hof for 2 reasons:
flip flopping on roids (which makes him the perfect republican) and the fact his stats are 4 years of great mixed in with about 15 years of okay to worse
“That is applied differently than judging someone ‘s political views or social expression. Points of view are protected by the principle of free speech.”
Nothing that you’ve written has any bearing on voting for the Hall of Fame. Free speech has absolutely nothing to do with baseball or voting for the Hall. Schilling’s bigoted ‘social expression’ is protected by the Constitution from the United States government potentially prosecuting him. It does not mean that Hall of Fame voters can’t consider it when they review his case for the Hall.
And again, the Hall of Fame has a character clause, and Schilling defiantly posts bigoted memes (typically against Muslims, but he has also targeted Hispanics, Latinos, African Americans, and the LGBTQ community) on social media and expresses hateful views in general. If the Hall of Fame and its voters do not want to be associated with this nonsense, they don’t have to be and can continue to deny Schilling a place in the Hall.
So we need to go back and kick Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth out because they were documented racists? How about Honus Wagner? All players are also people with their own beliefs and values! Ted Williams was a documented racist and overall nasty individual with numerous stories on his off field demeanor! How about Reggie Jackson and some of his on field and off field comments about white people? Racism, and just pure ignorant choices made by players doesn’t dictate their HOF worthiness. They politic and get donations for the hall as well! Why do you think PED’s were brought up as a disqualification offense even though ALL these guys from that era admitted to EVERYONE cheating? If they made a roster they had help! Proven by numerous testimonials and interviews. Just accept that Sabathia will get in for both his on and off field heroics. Quality guy in all aspects of life! More than what we can say for a lot in the hall!
@RCT I agree with you. They are well within their rights to keep him out. I would vote for him if I had a chance. There’s quite a few unsavory characters in the HOF with worse offenses than Schilling. Everyone likes to use the argument for the “bar.” I’d argue the “bar” for moral character to get into the HOF has already been set lower.
But they certainly can keep him off their ballot. If writers want to raise the “bar” for off field character moving forward as a reason that’s fine too. And of course don’t tell me it has anything to do with his on field performance either. If he’s kept out it’s for his views off the field
You saying we should take ruth and cobb out?
Otherwise, character clause is a weak argument.
Oh so Ty Cobb is not in the HOF then you claim? How could Cobb be in under your test
Mfm420 you clearly have a bias here. I’m not a schilling supporter. Nor am I an extreme right wing republican. I find people on both extremes to be some of the worst people to be around. Schilling is a HOF for his on field the performance. If you’re keeping him out it’s because of his views. Which is fine if you want to do that. I would not.
But don’t give me other BS arguments because you don’t like the guy. Worse people have made it in the Hall.
Cobb and Ruth’s perspectives were of a kind with Major League Baseball and large swaths of the era as a whole. It would be as disingenuous to remove them as it would be to compare them to Schilling and act as if the 80 years between hadn’t happened.
You can use your same framework for why steroid users should get in. You can’t have it both ways.
You’d have to ignore the part where one specifically effects on-the-field outcome, view steroids as somehow unique in MLB history, rather than a a stop on the PED continuum, and I assume that I oppose steroid users admittance to the Hall.
Strawman much?
Albert Belle was only the very best hitter of his generation and got blackballed by the writers. Integrity counts which is why I will never consider Bonds or Clemens HOFers. If Ty Cobb was elected and net booted out, both Belle and Schilling should be voted in the next time they are considered be it the writers or a special committee.
PEDs as well.
You want to vote PED’s into the Hall of Fame by Special committee?
Where did he flip? I had to search the Net just now. In 2013 he claimed former Sox brass in 2008 wanted him to try PEDs when he was trying to stay in the majors. He never said he used. At least not that I ever read. By the way, Schilling was a hot stud in the minors with Boston who was expected to be a quality starter and got traded on the June 15thbtrading deadline with Brady Anderson (yes the PED user) for Boddicker. The reason why in my view he belongs is because he put the team he was on over the top (with RJ in AZ, in Philly and in Boston where he was more dominant than Pedro in 2004).
“Points of view are protected by the principle of free speech.”. Actually, the First Amendment says that the government can’t pass a law that prohibits free speech. Private employers certainly can prohibit the speech of their employees if it conflicts with their image or hurts their product. For example, a waitress who calls a customer a racist slur can be fired by the restaurant. Someone who posts something racist or subversive on their Facebook page could, too, if it would cause customers who read it and are offended decided to boycott the establishment.
Exactly, but 90%+ of the people have no idea…
“Yes, professional sports: known throughout the land for its leftist sympathies.”
The sports and players themselves? No. The media surrounding said sports? Absolutely. And guess who votes on players getting in to the Hall? Don’t believe me? Just 7 percent of journalists are right leaning according to WaPo. You are no doubt going to have some sports journalists incapable of setting aside political views when voting.
“The sports and players themselves? No.”
Cool, a player is what we were discussing.
“No. The media surrounding said sports? Absolutely.”
Not specific enough to know what you’re referring to.
“And guess who votes on players getting in to the Hall?”
BBWAA members with 10+ years of membership who actively write about Major League Baseball, along with the Eras committees: the newfangled version of the Veterans committee. Y’know, reeeal Antifa-types.
“Just 7 percent of journalists are right leaning according to WaPo”
Great. Is there a statistic for baseball writers specifically? Or I’ll take Sports writers in general. As is, that number’s not all that useful.
“You are no doubt going to have some sports journalists incapable of setting aside political views when voting”
This is not:
1. At all a surprise.
2. A negative in the abstract.
3. a phenomenon exclusive to the nominal “Left.” (one person’s “incapable of” is another’s “unwilling to”)
Without knowing what “views” the hypothetical Lefty Schilling is supposed to have, the claim that he’d likely have an easier path to the Hall than Real Schilling is just sort of contentless conjecture.
Shilling deserves it, n much more even, in his baseball legacy.
@Strike Four
I realize that the times were different if they really lived by that “charachter issue” then Cobb, Landis and Anson need to be kicked out of the HOF (or never voted in( based of their racist views and campaigning against barring Blacks from playing in “professional” (mlb and the minors) until Robinson.
Jim Kaat and Bill White are perfect examples of a baseball life award. Combine their work as players, broadcasters and in Bill’s case, AL President, you have two fine men who merit such a selection.
Agree!
Definitely not, mediocre outside of a few years. How many chips?
Ted Williams and Ernie Banks never won “chips” either. Are they not HOFers because of that? Mike Trout has never even won a playoff game. Should he be excluded because of it? Winning a World Series is just luck of the draw. It shouldn’t have any affect on whether a player is in the HOF. CC is definitely a HOFer. He not a first ballot guy, but he would definitely be in the top 50% of HOF pitchers. I’m thinking Fergie Jenkins as a career comp.
Imagine being a Dodgers fan and thinking playoffs mean anything to the HOF – so no one on LAD past 1988 goes in, huh? lolwtf
I’d like to know non Yankee fans opinions. I feel it’s the Yankees fans who believe he should be in the Hall. He was a good pitcher but not great. So not a HOFer.
How many pitchers in this generation are sure fire HOFers? Scherzer, Verlander, Kershaw? I think the offensive explosion has to be accounted for. Really solid overall body of work, but not spectacular, outside of a few seasons. I think maybe not an immediate inductee, but he should get strong consideration.
I am a Sox fan and say yes. I do think Schilling deserves it more though.
He is the next Jack Morris type inductee. Ace for a bunch of years on a bunch of good teams. Not a particularly big time stat line but sentiment gets him in eventually. Tigers, Blue Jays, and Twins put Morris in on the first ballot. Yankees, Indians, and Brewers for CC. Too much love from these pockets to ignore.
Morris waited years to get in. He was elected on his LAST opportunity, not first ballot.
CC has a much better case than Morris. Better peak, better career numbers. It’s not really close, either.
Morris throws everything off, same as Baines for hitters. He should not be in there. Baines shouldn’t even have been considered.
That being said, CC is better than Morris. At least CC has a Cy Young Award and a couple of dominant seasons.
Couldnt agree more. If the vets committee is going to put in guys like that and skip over Bobby Grich, Dick Allen and Kevin Brown, then the bar has been lowered to a stupid level where a name means more than numbers.
Mickey Lolich, Frank Tanana, Chuck Finley, David Cone, Kevin Brown all need to be in the HOF.
Bill Dahlen, Bobby Grich, Dick Allen, Scott Rolen, Larry Walker, Lou Whitaker, Andruw Jones, Dwight Evans, Reggie Smith, Jim Edmonds, Kenny Lofton, Joe Torre (as a player), Gary Sheffield, Willie Randolph, Buddy Bell, Darrell Evans all need to go in, and I could probably list 20 more on each side.
Baines was TERRIBLE. Legit one one the worst players ever because of how long he was allowed to be bad for – he had TWO seasons out of 22(!) over 3 bWAR. Gross.
He’s much much much better than Jack Morris. Make a better comparison.
I’m a Brewers fan who watched in awe as he singlehandedly carried them to the playoffs. His numbers were just filthy.
To put it in perspective here are his numbers for a half season versus Tim Licecum’s 2008 Cy Young season.
CC: 17 starts, 11-2 record, 1.65 ERA, 7 CG, 3 SHO, 130.2 IP, 128 SO, 1.003 WHIP, 5.12 SO/BB, 255 ERA+, 4.9 WAR
TL: 33 starts, 18-5, 2.62 ERA, 2 CG, 1 SHO, 227 IP, 265 SO, 1.172 WHIP, 3.15 SO/BB, 168 ERA+, 7.8 WAR
CC also was voted 6th in the NL MVP and 5th in NL CY Young races.
This guy was an old school workhorse who literally pitched every 5th day until he had nothing left in the tank. I agree he’s a HOFer but just not a first ballot
I hate the Yankees but CC goes in. He has all the numbers necessary and won all the awards and even got a ring.
Not an Evil Empire fan, per Cashman, I’m a Golden State Warrior fan(Redsox). I think CC is a very good pitcher, not HOF. I know they’ve made mistakes in previous yrs, which is sad since it delutes the HOF stats. He’ll get in because the NYY will push hard for it, n they command a lotta power.
He’ll get in by not til 10 years after retirement. 2029- 2030 at the earliest.
They should build a shrine where the greatest baseball players ever can be celebrated. A place where maybe three or four players per generation can be inducted. What we have is a Hall of Really Good.
This is a correct viewing. CC is not worthy of being considered a generational pitcher. Guys who’ve overlapped a good amount of his era that made the HOF include Pedro, Halladay, Maddux, Glavine, and Randy Johnson. All of those guys were significantly better than CC and had the accolades to show it.
And then they let in Mike Mussina and Jack Morris and (for fun I’d assume) a Harold Baines on the position player side… So, needless to say, he should make it with that low standard that’s been set.
Morris was the staff ace on three different World Series winning teams. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
Congratulations to Jack. I did not get to watch him pitch, I’ll admit. However, nothing about his numbers suggests he’s worthy. His team won championships and I’m one of those people that doesn’t factor that in as heavily as some do. His individual statistics are what should make him a HOF player. He’s way off of those guys I just mentioned. For an ace on three WS winning teams, he sure took quite some time to receive his nod, eh?
Jack Morris deserved to be in the HOF just based on his 1991 game 7 performance against John Smoltz and the Braves. Dude pitched 10 shutout innings to win the game 1-0.
One game and HOF? Come on.
Then so should Kirk Gibson for Game 1 of the 1988 World Series.
Actually, I’m sure that specific game is what got him in at the end.
“ Not a particularly big time stat line but sentiment gets him in eventually.”
Love a direct quote from you after criticizing me for saying Morris wasn’t worthy. You literally admitted he was only in on sentiment and not his playing.
Sentiment is why we have a hall of fame. Statistics are used to validate how we feel about a guy’s career.
Jack Morris and CC Sabathia meant a lot to us as fans because they had great careers and great performances on big stages.
I’m undecided/leaning no on CC in the Hall but Career overlap without context is a strange single criterion for defining a generation . Maddux has just as much overlap with Nolan Ryan as he does with CC.
Of the pitchers you named, Halladay’s the only one in his generation. Maddux, Glavine, and Johnson’s ML debuts came in CC’s age 7, 8, and 9 seasons, respectively, with Pedro debuting 3 years after Randy.
I never said that those players were part of his generation. I stated that they overlapped the first part of his career. They all pitched 7+ seasons after he debuted.
If you want to compare CC to his generation of Future/HOF pitchers:
Roy Halladay
Justin Verlander
Zack Greinke
Max Scherzer – if his debut isn’t too late in comparison
Either way, he doesn’t hold a candle to those guys.
Sorry. Saw the first sentence about him not being a “generational” pitcher and assumed the next sentence was meant to be a generational comparison.
Though now I’m more confused as to why “they overlapped the first part of his career. They all pitched 7+ seasons after he debuted” matters
I believe as you do, the HOF is getting a bit watered down.
107 1/3 innings is not a career low. He pitched only 46 innings in 2014.
He’s only a HOF based on wins & so
vote bonds in!
He’s a member of the 3000 strikeout club. The only people part of this club that are not HOFers are Roger Clemens (steroids), Curt Schilling (deserves to be whether you like him or not), and Justin Verlander (still playing and a definite HOFer). I think that milestone alone gives him a good shot with most voters, plus with a Cy Young and 6 All Star nods I’d give him a better chance to make it than not. He’s definitely not a first ballot guy, but after 5 or 6 years I think he’ll be in the HOF
funny you think schilling was clean.
his numbers stand out even more than clemens does for steroids (and he went from being anti roids to for them, once he benefited from them. typical hypocrite/christian republican)
Sounds to me like you hate him because he’s a Christian Republican more than you do for possible steroid use. Funny you think everyone else in the Hall is squeaky clean and Schilling, because he had a really great year, must have used steroids. You just wanted a reason to drop that line about Christians/Republicans being hypocrites because you’re a sad and pathetic human being. Grow up.
No one from that era was clean. That is my presumption. Considering that, it was an even playing field.
The HoF is stupid without Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling.
I guess by today’s standards a. 3.75 era is good. He compares favorably to Messina who just got in. Based on that yes he gets in , not right away though.
And like Mussina he also has the most important thing going for him, he retired a Yankee. If he stayed in cleveland or Milwaukee he definitely wouldn’t be getting the say push.
That’s funny because I think that because he is a yankee he gets all this push back in the comments section. Anywhere else he’d be viewed differently
3000 ks and a non drug user = guaranteed HOFer. Might take a ballot or 2 depending who is on it with him, but he’s getting in.
Curt Schilling meets those qualifications. He’s not in.
Poor Curt is on the wrong side of the media’s politics.
Sometimes, it’s not what you say or how you say it. A lot of stars and a lot of HOF inductees are from a far the middle political viewpoint. But the stridency Curt used in expressing his opinions rubbed a lot of important people the wrong way. The word subtle is not in Schilling ‘s arsenal.
nope. he had at least 2 or 3 chances to get in before the older voters got purged out, didn’t even come close.
but you keep telling yourself him being a republican is keeping him out (rather than putting up his best year while on roids)
you forgot to add the word “yet” at the end of your sentence. Curt is getting in. much like cc just wasn’t first ballot. his politics have kept him out which is sad and pathetic by the hof to use that against him.
People who vote for the HOF don’t just look at the stats. Obviously if you try to support Baines getting in. They base quite a bit on how he represented the game. That’s why Bonds and Rose and Clemens aren’t in. Many HOF players used drugs and PED’s, it’s the guys who got caught that are held back.
It’s time to stop pretending to be righteous and just let these guys in. They still did amazing things for baseball and deserve to be let in.
meets half of that.
you keep thinking he didn’t take roids, oKKKay?
No way
Very good in his day, but he’s not a HOFer. He finished as a Yankee on good terms with sportswriters, so his popularity might get him in like Jetter.
“Jetter” If you meant Jeter than his case is a lockdown, sure fire, no doubt HOF. Popularity is of course important, but in no way is that just Jeter’s ticket. If you question Jeter’s credentials than your historically biased, or just don’t know Squadoosh about sports.
Agree Cereal. Anyone who doubts Jeter as a HOF’er is plain old denying what it’s all about. 3k hits alone has been enough in the past. Every player who has gotten that many is IN the HOF for good reason, except for Rose and we all know why he isn’t. Not to mention the 1st half of Jeter’s career he was magic with the glove.
Jeter is 1 of the better SS’s to have played the last half century overall. Why some can make off the wall posts like that is beyond me.
This guy ChiSoxCity has long whined about the Yankees media bias, and the Red Sox too by the way. On subject I don’t think CC will be a first ballot HOF. It’s a travesty when guys like Schilling and Tommy John are still out.
Biased Yankees fans and the northeast media mafia got him in. If “Jettah” played for some other team, he wouldn’t be in the HOF.
Bruh you a straight up fool. Run along back to your LEGO’s skippy. omfg kids these days.
Jeter never won a MVP. Never won a batting title or a home run title. But looking at the whole career he deserves to be in. Just like Ozzie Smith.
But Baines doesn’t.
raffy has 3000 hits, isn’t in the hof either (only guy to get that many and fall off the ballot, as pete was never actually put on the ballot).
but your point stands about jeter.
to be honest, he was never the best at any one part, but so above average at pretty much everything he 100 percent deserves to be a first ballot hof
Jeter is the most overrated player in the live ball era. He literally gave gifts and schmoozed sportswriters and talking heads for years, and it payed off.
Cereal you nailed ChiSoxCity who just does not know much about baseball
ARod has a beef with Jeter because Jeter got away with using PEDs.
Stuff like this shows why you’re wearing velcro shoes.
Not aHall of Famer. Very good pitcher. Enough mediocrity getting in the Hall(Harold Baines)
If Curt Schilling isn’t, C.C. isn’t.
CC didnt rip off vulnerable senior citizens.
Clemens isnt in either, you tool
Sabathia will make the HoF it just won’t be on the 1st ballot. Credentials: 3,000+ K’s, 250+ Wins and Cy Young Award and a World Series ring.
Depends. Is Harold Baines a HOFer?
Baines is the closest to 3000 hits not in.
Harold Baines is in the Hall of Fame
if just for durability and postseason play alone, he can be in. those regular season numbers aren’t no-doubters though. i was omve pretty sure he is in, but now im not as much sure.
I don’t understand how this is a debate. He’s a shoo-in
A shoo in? Buhahaha. Forget that he plays for your favorite team, the man is Hall Of Mediocrity worthy
“Take it from me, clear eyed fan bias-free ‘dynasty in boston’.”
Fun fact: anyone who has 60+ WAR absolutely MUST be in the HOF and its a travesty a few are not. CC has 60+ WAR. The end. He’s in.
You don’t understand how this is a debate. You’ll understand in 6 years when Sabathia’s ballot numbers come in somewhere between 60-80%, with 75% being the magic number to get in. When people have to question the player’s credentials, then it’s a debate. This isn’t Pujols we’re talking about.
Very durable, and very good but 3.74 isn’t HOF worthy at all.
You have to compare his ERA to the average of the years in which he plays which would be in the mid 4s. The era is the sixties through mid eighties where averaged within the mid 3s. ERA is a very biased stat when only using that as your standard.
Factor in the 3,000k and only being the third lefty to have ever done that and his case gets much stronger.
bs
He played against Bonds man, calm down that ERA is totally fine.
Sure, Pedro was better than him, but he’s certainly a top 50 starting pitcher all-time – he MUST get in.
After seeing the last crop of HOFers, and factoring in the fact that he played for the media’s favorite team, he’ll get in. Deserving? No.
I wonder how many of you who think Molina is a hall of famer DON’T think Sabathia is? Forget the fact they play different positions, but they have identical careers. Basically the same age. Came in the league in the same decade. Both were very good but not great. Sabathia did win a CYA. Both won WS. But let’s face it, they both will likely get in based on their leadership and longevity more than anything else. The HOF is extremely watered down. These two will add more water to flood the place even more.
“Forget the fact they play different positions”
Why?
“but they have identical careers.”
But they play completely different positions, with different expectations, statistics, skill sets, and only one is retiring.
“Basically the same age. Came in the league in the same decade. Both were very good but not great. ”
The number of players this describes could populate a decent-sized island nation.
You completely missed the entire point, but that doesn’t surprise me. This doesn’t describe an “island sized nation.” There a very, very few guys in the league that fit Molina and CC careers, so just stop. But go ahead and tell me all the current players who live on this island. These 2 guys are borderline hall of famers who will get in based on my points. Longevity. Leadership. That brought on inflated stats. Yes, there are guys who play 15 years in the league, but many don’t come close to these 2 guys and their careers. Lots of players stay in the league as utility/bench players for 15 years. Doesn’t mean they have HOF credentials. Oh by the way, CC was planning on playing in 2020 until he got hurt. Molina’s last year will be 2020.
I didn’t miss your point, I just think it’s a bad point that requires arbitrarily ignoring a huge difference between two players while arguing 3 incredibly general criteria (debuting in the same decade??) make their careers “identical.”
“There a very, very few guys in the league that fit Molina and CC careers, so just stop”
Didn’t claim there were. Said that the number of players who could be paired up as “Identical” under those three criteria
-basically same age
-debuted same decade
-very good but not great
is quite large
“CC was planning on playing in 2020 until he got hurt. Molina’s last year will be 2020”
Coincidence?? You think not.
Once again, name me the players who fit my criteria that aren’t named Molina and Sabathia that are borderline hall of famers. That would mean, you need to name current players aged 37 and older who debuted in early 2000s, that have 16 years plus under their belts, that are in hall of fame discussion. I’ll wait.
Coincidence on both retiring in 2020? You think these two guys have been discussing this for a while?
Gotta side with ontario here, other guy is talking nonsense.
Once again, I’m not arguing that there are a bunch of players with careers that are “identical” to CC and Yadi. I’m arguing that their careers are not identical at all, save for under your strange definition of it.
“Coincidence on both retiring in 2020? You think these two guys have been discussing this for a while?”
You’re the one who mentioned it. Didn’t understand what point you were trying to make, so I took a shot in the dark.
Also, both aren’t retiring in 2020.
That’s fine. You have an opinion. So let’s just let Molina in the HOF because he plays the weakest represented position in baseball. Ok, he’s a shoo in, sure fire HOF. That’s too bad Simmons played in an era when catchers were really, really good.
I would love to see the map the path that led you to conclude that that’s an opinion I have/am expressing.
I know they both aren’t retiring in 2020. I said they aren’t because Sabathia just saw his career end 2 nights ago, so his career is over. He may delay his retirement announcement, but he won’t be playing in 2020 like Molina. That’s all I said. I’m done now. My entire point was to prove they both were really good players that had borderline hall of fame careers that were based on longevity and leadership.
Horrendous logic with the “weakest represented position in baseball.” Is that Molina’s issue, that nobody dominated defensively like he did over his career? You are strictly compared to those in your position for a reason. If you’re the best at your position for majority of 15+ years… you’re not in the HOF?
You can’t compare a starting pitcher to a catcher. Completely different positions. Completely different mindset when comparing. Completely different everything.
Though I agree completely the HOF is watered down. What made the MLB HOF so interesting was they were so selective. With Baines and Morris in it’s a joke.
@CFAP
NEWSFLASH … CC is a Pitcher. Molina is a Catcher. They play different positions!
Those of us who actually understand the game cannot forget that.
The HOF voters will not forget that. Molina and CC are not comps of each other. They are nothing alike.
If you think Tom Glavine was a no doubter for the HOF, then you should also think CC is a no doubter HOF. CC has a better career FIP, ERA+, WHIP, BB/9, and K/9.
Glavine had better ERA+ 118-116. Call it a push. Anyway, Glavine won 2 CYA, finished top 3 SIX times, and Glavine pitched 900 innings more than CC, which is 4 more seasons worth. Glavine WAR 80. CC 63.
62.5 to 73.9, if you remove Glavine’s offensive WAR. Pretty close for having the 830 extra innings.
He’ll get in due to being a Yankee and achieving 3,000 K’s (Curt Schilling notwithstanding). But he isn’t any better than Luis Tiant,, Mickey Lolich, Tommy John or Jim Kaat…all of whom are NOT in the Hall. I voted ‘no’, but I know he’ll be voted in.
Don’t think its a good position about whether somebody is a HOF’er of not just because there are other players who for whatever reasons are not in the hall.
Lots of subjectiveness in the voting leaves deserving players out on a yearly basis and that’s not going to change in the near future….
You either think a guy had a career that defined consideration or not and in CC’s case, as I stated earlier, his Yankee years were underscored by pitching in many huge games as the Yankees have been in the playoffs consistently (with the exception of 1 year, for almost the entire CC era in NY.
Not just no but hell no
I’d say there will be cases for and against. Not a slam dunk. But in his generation where he was at his top and his ability to compete at the top level as long as he did with good numbers, it’s enough.
The HoF should be reserved for the best of the best. Outstanding play for a decade (minimum) long career. With multiple years as among the very best at each position. Year to year there are a handful of pitchers who deserve the label of an Ace. To do that over a 5-7 stretch is truly an accomplishment that deserves enshrinement.
No he does not belong. The HOF is getting watered down with players. We don’t have to elect someone every year just to draw attention to it (which is why they do). He does not even rank top 30 in a single category on his career overall. He has one Cy Young which is the only thing that even helps make his case. One of favorite players and extremely liked player across his career but I don’t consider him HOF but that is only because I feel like they should be far more selective on who makes it. But i believe he will on the 3rd chance
Strikeouts
Exactly. Remember the big stink a few years ago when nobody got enough votes? Putting players like Trammell, Baines and Lee Smith in is making it look like the Rock and Roll HOF. A complete joke.
Oooooo, one of these things is not like the other.
He belongs in the Hall of the VG. But, when guys like Harold Baines get in, who knows. CC was never the best pitcher of his generation.
His career ERA and FIP are much closer to 4 than 3. It’s seems the only reason he’ll get in is because he was always healthy. That’s not enough for me so I don’t think he’s a hall of famer
Cc came to New York after a epic run in Milwaukee that he basically carried the team to playoffs.. he was throwing complete games. He’s a HOF’er easily. Cy young winner World Series champion.. 250 wins and pitching in a bandbox stadium..and in the al-east. Come on guys. Wake the f up. 250 is the new 300 with all the bullpen and as well the huge money contracts that are being handed out to pitchers. moose is in.. Morris is in.. blyleven is in.. CC is In
He lands just under Mussina and Blyleven, and just above Morris, IMO.
Decent counting numbers but I wouldn’t put a guy with an era over 3.5 in, especially when Schilling is not in yet.
CC had a good career but not 100% sold on hall of fame type. I say he gets in but probably not first ballot.
I would say no. It’s too bad he held on for the last seven years when his record was 46 wins / 45 losses. Without these years, he was nearly 100 games over .500 and probably a shoo-in.
W/L record. The be-all end-all of assessing the performance of pitchers.
The Hall of Fame is now the Hall of pretty good players. A good way to calculate who is a hall of famer is pick 10 names who you think are hall of famers. Then pick the best 3 of those. Is CC a HOFer in my opinion NO. But the opinions of those computer nerds that never set foot on a baseball field I have a pretty good feeling he gets in
Well, today’s era is defined by lots of players who are labeled “great or really really good” by fans today who are defining the term in a different context.
For example, .260 hitters who have 30+ home runs are constantly defined by announcers and fans as great because they can “elevate” the ball even though they may have a strikeout rate of 1 every 4 at bats.
The parameters of consideration have changed and because of this CC will and should be of consideration….probably not getting in on a first ballot, but eventually…who knows…but definitely should be considered.
Which i think its stupid. You’re either a Hall of Famer or you’re not. I don’t understand why it has to be classified as a first ballot Hall of Famer or a second ballot Hall of Famer.
The BBWAA will be both confused and hurt by that strange characterization.
No way. The only reason he is hyped is because he played in ny
Remember that he won 106 games for a mostly awful Indians team the first seven years of his career. And his career ERA is only 0.02 runs better with the Yankees than it was with Cleveland.
Too many strikeouts to not be in the Hall. 3000 is the number, just like it is for hits. Like it or not, once you get to that benchmark, you’re in.
Schilling has 3116.
And Bonds has over 700. We all know why they aren’t in.
Hall of Really Good IMO
So we’re all just going to point fingers at Baines’ and Morris’ induction like the Old-Timers/Veterans Committee hasn’t spent the lifetime of the Hall sneaking in pals through the side doors.
Read the first few comments and realize that a lot of people just lack any perspective or have no idea what they are talking about.
The simple fact that he is 16th all-time with strikeouts pretty much seals up the HOF alone. Any other debate beyond that is not worth it. There have been thousands upon thousands of pitchers come through the leagues year after year, for over a century and the dude is #16 in one of the most important stats a pitcher can have, maybe the most important. I’m not going to debate if he is a first ballot or 5th. That’s up to the voters, but make no mistake, he will be in the HOF and most importantly, deserving of it too.
He is pretty much top 50 in every other metric and yeah, and the fact he won a championship is always relevant.
If CC’s numbers themselves don’t do it for you, you still can easily get CC in to the HOF on the basis of “If X is in, Y should be in”.
I know everyone likes to talk WAR and other nerd based stats like that when discussing a player’s HOF case. If you go by the traditional counting stats (wins, strikeouts, etc), I think there’s no doubt he makes the Hall. I don’t think we’ll ever see another pitcher reach 300 wins and there’s only a handful who have the potential to reach 3000 K’s. Add in the fact that he’s pitched 19 mostly successful seasons in the majors and there’s very little doubt that he’s Hall worthy.
Never say never. Verlander has a chance. If he dominates for four more years like he has the last couple and is within 20 at age 40 he’ll stick around to get it.
Someone will eventually come around and do it. Might be awhile though if Verlander doesn’t do it.
“nerd’ Nothing pejorative about that comment.
People are smarter now. They don’t base their votes on data such as wins that are as much about the team as anything else. They don’t base it on strikeouts or ERA which is ERA dependent.
Idk why this is even a debate/poll. I think Conner just got bored or ran out of things to write about lol. Either way, we’re still posting about it so it worked out :)
“Idk why this is even a debate/poll.”
Lack of consensus/wide range of opinions.
“Either way, we’re still posting about it so it worked out”
So you DO know why it’s a debate/poll.
Really fine pitcher at his peak, strong, solid 3-4 for years afterwards. Not as good as Mussina, who seems to make some people here crazy. Not as good as Schilling (who should be in, despite his utter loathsomeness). Apparently a great teammate, probably going to stay in baseball. Not quite a HOF, if I were voting, but I wouldn’t stress over it if they put him in.
In the context of his time, he is a Hall if Famer. Keep in mind, he pitched from 2001-2019. If we get HG Wells to magically plop him alongside Whitey Ford and Bob Turkey with the 1950s Yankees or Guidry and Catfish in the late ‘70s, who knows? The game had evolved.
Not a first ballot HOF for sure but will get in down the road like Bert Blyleven…
The 3k strikeouts and pitching for the Evil Empire will land him there…
He’s a HoFer, but don’t see him as a first ballot. See him starting around 50% on the first vote, then doing a 2 to 3 year climb to enshrinement.
I have zero vested interest in any team he’s played for. He is a HOFer in my mind. So is Schilling, so is Kaat, so is Dick Allen, so is Garvey, Albert Belle.. hope to see them all get in.
Garvey? Why?
one could argue that he was the key cog of the great Dodgers teams of the late 70s-early 80s, and he was an absolute animal in the postseason, a two time NLCS MVP. For an 8 year stretch you could pencil him in for 200 hits, .300 BA
Top 50 in most notable stats, how could you say he’s not a hall of famer? It’s just a typical yankee player hate.
He’s much better than Jack Morris. He’s much better than Jim Kaat. So what “your” Hall of Fame threshold?
He’s not as good and Schillng or Mussina.
He’s better than Catfish Hunter, but would be the worst starting pitchers selected by the BBWA in 35+ years, since Catfish Hunter.
He’s borderline, but he’d get my vote. Other than Schilling, in the last 50 years, what pitcher better than him is not in the Hall of Fame?
The BBWA has done a pretty good job on starting pitchers.
No, not better than Jim Kaat! I compare him to Jerry Koosman, who was an absolute horse, but not a hall of famer. And I’m a huge fan of JK. Both of them Twins.
CC absolutely destroys Kaat in every stat while playing less games. Explain.
Seen them both. Kaat’s better. Better athlete. Decent hitter. GREAT fielder. Vastly superior human being. Not a big cry baby. Just super competitive.
Conspicuously absent from list: anything pitching-related.
Conspicuously present: adult use of “crybaby”
Over 14 years, Kaat won 225 games with a 3.21 ERA and averaged 242 innings per year.
Over 11 years, cc won 176 games with a 3.51 ERA and averaged 215 innings.
Kaat was more effective for a longer period. That’s what matters, not career totals. cc was barely a .500 pitcher over his last 7 seasons, hardly effective for a team that dreams of winning the world series every year. And yes, he was a big crybaby.
Ah, you’re a Wins guy. Any reasoning behind the two different timespans? “Get a load of this jamoke! 49 fewer wins in 3 fewer seasons! Which means something?”
Are they at least consecutive seasons?
Good call in leaving out Kaat being EXACTLY a .500 pitcher in his final 7 seasons though.
Just for completeness, over 14 years, cc won 208 games with a 3.63 ERA and averaged 202 innings, but he did pitch 12 shutouts. Kaat: 27 shutouts.
Gotta love that 2nd Deadball Era.
Listen: Get over it. I’m comparing him to Jerry Koosman who I really like. I’m not saying he’s not good,
So averaging an additional 40ish innings in that span, and in a 4-man rotation, Kaat managed 17 more wins than CC over 14 years (1.21 per season)….beastly(?)
Aren’t we just talking about baseball? Disagreeing. What’s to get over?
You need to look at the data. What do you base your assessment on?
Kaat, ERA+ 108.
That’s not the end-all-be-all, but it’s a good starting point.
I’d vote yes. But he probably won’t get in the first few tries. In his prime he was as good as any and an absolute horse. His run with the Brewers was amazing. 17 starts and he averaged 7.7 innings per start.
If you go by a Several Great years and a Career great Teammate + Great Guy but just Short
I voted no on account of CC’s maturity seemingly worsening as he gets older. A trait which could be blamed on the Yankee organization, or he’s just one of those guys who doesn’t belong in the same sentence with Legend.
Yes being a clubhouse leader and having multiple charity events is so immature ugh i cant believe he’s done this
Who would call themselves a clubhouse leader in that turkey barn?
The, uh, head turkey I guess. Or the turkey farmer maybe.
Yankees fans, please identify yourself before you weigh-in so I know not to take you seriously. K, thanks.
I hate the Yankees.
Borderline HOF, I vote yes. Other than Schilling, name a better pitcher of the last forty years that has not been voted in by the writers.
Sabathia is the cusp. I don’t have any problems with Yes, I don’t have an issue with no. He’s either the floor or the ceiling.
You sound like a dork.
Kevin Brown
If I had to choose between Sabathia and Brown, I’d choose Brown.
Hate he is a Yankee and gets plenty of pub because of that but to me he is an HOF’er. Man simply won and for several years dominated. 241 wins and he should be in. Just go in with another teams hat.
Yes. He is a HOFer.
life time era of 3.7 maybe ,he pitched when pitchers were allowed to go deep, today is a complete joke a guy lasts 5 innings and he’s a stud lol
This is a no-brainer. Yes, he’ll be enshrined in Cooperstown. And yes, it will take several years, and he will not enter at the top of the class- but he’ll be in. Black ink, gray ink and similarity scores don’t lie
No way on CC. Good pitcher but not HOF material. Now separately he’s an arrogant punk . Dude still wears his hat sideways looks like a moron and is a disgrace to the game with his fat belly sticking out there.
“Wears his hat sideways”
Okay, pappy.
“is a disgrace to the game with his fat belly sticking out there.”
Babe Ruth would be rolling over in his grave if there were any space in the coffin.
lolol
CC is absolutely a HOF caliber pitcher. First ballot? No. But eventually, no doubt. If Jack Morris is in the hall, then there can be no argument as to whether Sabathia is worthy.
If guys like Harold Baines and Edgar Martinez are in the Hall with the numbers they put up then CC is a lock.
If largely dissimilar guys like an unspectacular player with a lengthy career and one of the best hitters of his era are in the Hall with the wildly disparate numbers they put up, a pitcher from a different generation is a lock.
He had some HOF like seasons. And was fun to watch. He got close but I dont feel he is worthy of the HOF. For the record neither is Baines. CC will have to settle for being a great competitor, and one of the top work horses of his generation. He had some shining moments and a WS on his resume. Side note, he could have hit 15+ HR’s if he was an NL pitcher.
Only because Jack Morris is in the HoF, but let’s be real, has he done anything only few have done?
He’s one of only 18 pitchers with 3000 strikeouts. Additionally, Sabathia ranks in the top-50 in wins all-time — while not a tell all stat, it means something.
Only way he gets into Cooperstown is by buying a ticket.
Depends how the Hall views his career. He likely will sit on the ballot like Schilling, Pettite, etc.