The post-trade-deadline trades of yore can’t happen anymore under baseball’s current rules. That’s a shame in some respects, because the August revocable waiver trade period delivered some doozies over the years. Here’s a story about one of them …
Back in 2014, the Angels were sprinting towards an AL West title and looking to bolster their bullpen. GM Jerry Dipoto had already swung a series of deals: he acquired closer Huston Street, nabbed lefty setup man Joe Thatcher, made a memorable change of scenery deal to get Jason Grilli for Ernesto Frieri, and even took a flier on Rich Hill (who never contributed in Anaheim).
The Street swap — the biggest of these moves — took place two weeks before the trade deadline. Dipoto was understandably still itching to improve a talented roster and ensure that the team was fully loaded for the postseason when an interesting opportunity arose in early August …
Vinnie Pestano was on the outs with the Indians. He was excellent in 2011 and 2012 but had stumbled in the ensuing two seasons. Still, a glance at his 2014 numbers shows why the Halos perked up when they saw his name scroll across the waiver wire.
Pestano, then 29, had a 13:1 K/BB ratio in nine MLB innings that year — even if he also allowed five earned runs. And in his 30 1/3 Triple-A frames, he owned a 1.78 ERA with 37 strikeouts against a dozen walks. It didn’t hurt that Pestano was earning just $975K and could be controlled through 2017.
The Indians hadn’t put Pestano on revocable waivers with intentions of letting him go for nothing. When the Angels were awarded the claim, they had to work out a deal to bring Pestano over from Cleveland.
It turned out that Dipoto had managed to make the above-noted additions without sacrificing any prospects who ended up turning out to be big losses over the long haul. That wasn’t so with the Pestano move, which cost a little-known prospect by the name of Mike Clevinger.
At the time, the 2011 fourth-rounder was on the radar but hardly an elite prospect. He was still in the middle of his first full professional season, having been sidelined for much of 2012-13 owing to Tommy John surgery. And though he had shown quite well at the Class A level to open the 2014 campaign, Clevinger had only managed a 5.37 ERA over his 55 1/3 High-A frames.
Clevinger didn’t exactly hit the ground running with the Cleveland organization, as he struggled through just five more High-A appearances after arriving. He really popped in 2015, when he punished Double-A hitters to the tune of a 2.73 ERA in 158 innings. Still, as the 2016 season approached, the idea of a Jacob deGrom career path was mostly floated because the two hurlers both feature flowing locks.
While he wasn’t then and never would be a top-100 sort of prospect, that was also true of deGrom. And as it turned out, Clevinger has tracked a lot more closely to the Mets star than anyone could’ve seriously predicted.
Clevinger went through some rookie struggles but produced very good results in 2017 and 2018. Last year, he took an ace turn. Though he missed a significant stretch owing to a teres major muscle strain, Clevinger produced monster numbers when healthy. Over 126 innings, he worked to a 2.71 ERA with 12.1 K/9 against 2.6 BB/9.
While he suffered some more poor fortune with a meniscus tear this spring, that’s likely not to impact the future (particularly since he’s rehabbing while the season is on hold). Suffice to say that Clevinger is one of the game’s more valuable pitching commodities, as he’s just entering his first of three arbitration-eligible seasons. (He’ll earn $4.1MM.)
Ironically enough, the Angels showed trade interest in Clevinger this spring … with the Indians reportedly responding by asking about elite prospect Jo Adell. The Halos would surely rather not have traded him away in the first place. Pestano did make a dozen strong appearances down the stretch in 2014, with two more in the team’s unsuccessful ALDS appearance, but he washed out in 2015 and hasn’t been seen in the majors since. It’s yet another reminder that sometimes those under-the-radar deals end up being quite important over the long haul.
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Just a couple of sundry comments.
* The assessment of a lot of trades seem to revolve around whether or not a team wins a WS.
* Trades like this are why non-contending teams should always tank completely. I still remember the 2017 O’s team. A 72 Py win team, with their only star, Machado, leaving in 1.5 years. Here’s the list of their tradeable assets:
Machado
Gausman
Brach
Givens
O’Day
Britton
Had they started their rebuild then, instaed of waiting a year, they could’ve gotten a king’s ransom for Machado, and decent pieces for the other 5 players. Instead, they wound up with very little.
Jonathan Schoop can be added to that list, as he was another tradeable asset the Orioles didn’t trade at the time.
JoeBrady – “non-contending teams should always tank completely”
I respectfully disagree. I’ve never understood the “intentional tank” concept because it goes against everything these guys have worked for since they could walk. While other kids were playing video games, riding bikes, swimming, these guys were throwing balls into a strike zone painted on the side of a barn, hitting rocks with a stick, playing pickle in the street, etc. Then they finally make it to the majors and people expect them to intentionally throw the season (and their stats) for the hope that the team can improve a bit in the offseason.
Work ethic is still a thing.
Players don’t tank, managements do.
I think players, mostly, do the best they can. Managements, tho, tank by claiming/signing mostly incompetent players.
Exactly. The guys on the field are trying, if for no other reason than to stay at the MLB level somewhere.
It’s not about players throwing. It’s about making the team worse. Nobody is ever going to tell a player “Hey, don’t perform at the best of your ability so we can get draft picks”. That not only lowers their value so they can’t be traded, but it would basically waste their talent. Instead, it’s trading those productive players for prospects to build up the farm system, and eventually make it back to contention. Usually those productive players are replaced by players who aren’t as productive, or lightning-in-a-bottle guys who can just provide some plate appearances, or innings pitched, and the team might get something good out of them, whether that be trading them later on, or building around them.
I’d also remind everyone of the Phillies back earlier in the decade, when they held on to Cliff Lee, Cole Hamels, Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Jimmy Rollins etc. for FAR too long and ended up getting very little back for any of them. As a result, their rebuild took much, much longer. Knowing when your window is legitimately closed is critical to running baseball operations, now more than ever. The O’s are just the most recent example of
…of it. The Giants are another. If you get started on it early, the turnaround to competitiveness can be much shorter.
Call it an asset for assets strategy. Tanking happens in the process, most likely, but the idea is not to hold players other teams would want to help win. Joe Brady is correct; in-hindsight these players should have been dealt. It didn’t play out that way. Toronto is another example; they delayed the process, traded low on some players and didn’t bother dealing other players at all. Swing and a miss.
I don’t believe it’s “intentional”. It’s a team take a step or two back to take three steps forward.
@prov. I think what he meant is if you know your teams window is closing it might be a good idea to trade off assets for prospects. Then you can restock your club with affordable players in a few years. Not every club has $200 million payroll or can even afford it. Obviously if you trade off your best players you will end up with lower winning percentage at the end of the year and a higher slot draft pick at the end of the year with the way things are currently done. I wouldn’t mind seeing a first round “lottery” draft done like at a bingo event. Put each teams logo on a ball and whatever comes up gets that pick. That’s the idea I have thought of.
joke – I hope that’s what joebrady meant, but that’s not at all what he wrote. I have read many comments on here that suggest players tank the season in order to help the team get better draft picks, etc. A manager can’t “tank” a season without the players agreeing. The trade process is different and can’t be characterised as tanking the season. It’s in the normal course of business that you try to build your farm for the future through trades that also help contenders now.
Tanking, in the sense that joebrady suggested it, is contrary to how these guys lived their lives to be the best of the best. I think the same work ethic is true for managers who have gone down the same life path as the players they manage.
Hope this makes sense. It depends on how people interpret what tanking a season means. I define it as intentionally not playing to your potential for the purpose of achieving a lower win percentage.
Good point Joe Brady. What’s the implication for your Red Sox?
Weren’t you hankering for the Red Sox to trade for one-year rental Joc Pederson a few months ago? How would trading for him have qualified as “tanking completely?”
The Indians seem to be very adept at developing starting pitching. Cliff Lee, Carlos Carrasco, Corey Kluber are examples of players acquired in trades that flourished and saw their best days in the Indians organization. Aaron Civale, Zach Plesac and Shane Bieber are starters they’ve drafted and developed. Their track record when it come to developing starting pitching is excellent. It may even be possible that had Clevinger remained in the Angels organization, he may never have flourished like he has with the Indians.
I didn’t even mention C.C. Sabathia and Bartolo Colon, two other starters they Indians developed. Both won Cy Young awards during their careers. Sabathia won his with the Indians . Colon won his with the Angels.
Baji Kimran
As an Angel fan, I’m hoping Mickey Callaway has something to do with that. The fact is, it’s hard to develop starters and Callaway has had some success. I’d rather have someone that has done it vs someone who hasn’t.
Have to come up with an organization plan for pitchers and stick to it.
Draft or trade for the pitchers that fit.
Most importantly for your ballpark.
You watch the Astros.
Most of their pitchers are similar in a way. High fastball and 12/6 curve.
Astros pretty much have them doing this from the low minors on up.
Not just on the pitching coach. On the front office and the minor league instructors.
Hard because the Big A plays so different in the day and at night.
At night you want flyballs but not during the day
Agreed. Currently Eppler rarely drafts pitchers early. He takes guys with bullpen projections in later rounds then trades them, leaving little to no depth.
Between the lack of high end talent and then the exodus of recent draftees, there’s not much for the coaching staff to develop.
The GM doesn’t do the drafting. The scouting director does
Matters the team.
Usually the GM or President of Baseball Operations has to sign off on draft picks.
The scouting department does to a lot of the heavy lifting but there are other people involved as well.
Angels draft players with very high upside similar to what they Yankees do.
This has hurt the Angels because not all of those players have matured.
Angels have a few pitchers in the low minors with huge upside just like they do position players.
Angels are a team especially if Adell is still considered a prospect that can be in the too half in 2021.
But you still have issues like with Will Wilson. Why draft the guy and just trade him so you can sign Rendon.
Jose Soriano is a guy to watch. There are a few others
@Halo11Fan I wouldn’t give Callaway credit for most of that, but I also think he’s one of the best pitching coaches in the game and he’ll do great work with the Angels.
I think Callaway is good at fine tuning pitchers and tweaking them once most of their developing has occurred, but the minor league pitching development for the Indians is more of an organization-wide thing. Guys like Ruben Niebla are probably deserve more of the credit there.
trevor gott pitched well for the halos in that deal acquiring Street from the Friars.
another ‘present’ from dipdip!
Can we send that guy to the Rangers next.
Has already screwed over two AL West Franchises.
Clevinger is like ‘68 Bob Gibson on Tap Sports Baseball 2020. Unhittable.
I agree with the statement someone made about the Indians being skillful at developing starting pitching. The Angels on the other hand, haven’t developed a legit ace since Jered Weaver. Many of their starters cannot put together a healthy season of 33-34 starts. Weaver was the last one. Clevinger might not be the Clevinger of today had he stayed in Anaheim.
Actually, the starters they lost over the past 5 years to major injuries all had the upside to be 1-3 starters. Garrett Richards and Matt Shoemaker has ace numbers in the same season this article is referring to. It’s just unfortunate that most of them had TJS into their Major League careers, whereas Clevinger got his while still in A Ball. That’s not to say those pitchers should’ve just said, “Hey give my the surgery now so I don’t get it later.” The timing was really bad for their young starters. Had they all stayed healthy enough, we would’ve been watching a team bringing up effective young starters the same way the Indians and a Cardinals have done.
I agree with the statement someone made about the Indians being skillful at developing starting pitching. The Angels on the other hand, haven’t developed a legit ace since Jered Weaver. Many of their starters cannot put together a healthy season of 33-34 starts. Weaver was the last one. Clevinger might not be the Clevinger of today had he stayed in Anaheim. Just a thought.
The Angels have produced some good SP since Weaver. Skaggs, Corbin, Santana, to name 3
Skaggs was just decent, nobody remembers Corbin in Anaheim and Santana was a PED user. If that’s the best pitching talent you have going I would stop bragging right about now.
This circumstances are irrelevant. Fact remains: Corbin and Santana have found success while yeah Skaggs was decent. The timing is the real problem. They had too many starters who would’ve been successful for them who had TJS into their Major League careers. It’s unfortunate.
It wasn’t a true statement. But thanks.
Actually it was.
Forgot Garrett Richards.
When Richards was healthy and on he was one of the most difficult matchups in the AL West.
Health was a big issue there like so many of their pitchers.
Regarding Weaver. I put him up there with Bauer as one of the most dominating college pitchers in the last 20 years.
Those were the top of the pedestal in terms of upside and production.
This one definitely hurts but I do wonder if he ever develops into a top arm here. As pointed out above, Cleveland is great at development and the Angels have not been.
Rich Hill’s ERA here is infinity, by the way. Gave up a run or two but recorded no outs.
I was thinking the same thing. The Angels have developed very few home-grown quality starters. Jered Weaver comes to mind as one of the recent few…most have been traded for or acquired.
Garret Richards and Matt Shoemaker are the types of guys that the Angels have had in camp, but health has caused so many challenges for the Halo squads.
Weaver was as close to a can’t miss prospect as there was coming out of college. The Angels were able to draft him only because of the old system before slotted bonuses.
I’m sure there was some development along the way, but he was the best college arm in that draft or one of them.
True…and it’s a shame that 2014 team couldn’t get past the buzz-saw of the Royals that year because Weaver would have been fun to watch in the World Series. That staff was anchored by Weaver, then CJ Wilson, Richards, Shoemaker, Hector Santiago, and Skaggs was also part of that rotation. With Joe Smith leading up to Huston Street, that was a great staff.
When every pitcher shows injury problems, it might be time to look at the organization’s practices. Too many injuries over too many years to call it coincidence. Hard to believe that this is the organization of Ryan and Tanana.
History will show dipoto as one of the least effective GMs of all time.
Eppler is giving him a run for his money.
And A. J. Preller and Dave Stewart
I like Eppler, but I’m not sure even Dipoto would have given Matt Harvey $11M for a year of throwing batting practice for the opposition.
The Angels are not allowed to have good pitching
Some of the best pitching in the league came from Anaheim during the 2007-2012 years.
I answered above, but don’t forget about the 2014 staff. That staff was anchored by Weaver, then CJ Wilson, Richards, Shoemaker, Hector Santiago, and Skaggs was also part of that rotation. With Joe Smith leading up to Huston Street, that was a great staff.
Everyone should keep in mind that when you’re talkin about Cleveland Indians pitching, you must understand that their stats are misleading and watered down. Clevenger is a good picture but not as good as you think my goats!
Its obvious to me that that you know very little about baseball.
Why do you call people goats? I’ve seen this on many occasions. It’s like you think it’s endearing, clever or humorous while actually it’s just very offputting. Stuff it.
there is one g.o.a.t. in the world. messi.
Visionaire No, your explanations are incorrect and far-fetched. A goat is actually a compliment, there’s people that actually name themselves this name as a nickname. Go online and research goats and more importantly mountain goats and becomee educated of their superiority. You’ll see how superior they are when they climb mountains and can out run a mountain lion then you’ll want me to call you a mountain goat every time I come on here to post. birthing, pay attention what Cleveland pitchers do in the playoffs against real teams and then you’ll understand what I’m trying to say
I looked into this when writing on possible Angels/Indians trade scenarios. The truth is that most of the AL Central has been pretty bad over the last few years so pitchers can pad their numbers in the division. I had the same concern over Odorizzi as a free agent.
That said, while I don’t remember the exact numbers, Clevinger still pitched well against the other divisions.
Yes! Haloheavon is one smart guy. The other goats here don’t realize that in the past three seasons the royals, tigers and White Sox have combined for a grand total of almost 900 losses which means what I am saying is complete intelligence and anyone that disagrees is just a pure fool and accuses me of not knowing my chip, give me a break, this basic. One knows that pitching in the AL Central will give you some extra stats that shine and if you disagree you’re just a fool and I’m sorry I can’t help you anymore.
This is true.
No one asked for your help, and what you state contains only the obvious, and therefore, not very helpful.
I just don’t buy that there is a huge discrepancy between the divisions. They are all major league players. The AL central has had some pretty great teams the last few years.
I’m a triggered Halos fan.
Patrick Corbin hurts more than Sean Newcomb.
There’s 2 more.
Richards injuries took a good one away.
Shoe, Skaggs…all homegrown.
It was all there, just another bizarre chapter in Angels history now.
To be fair, Bauer was critical in the development of Clevinger. At least from what I’ve heard he helped clean up mechanics and turn Clev from throwing 91-92 to 95-98 I think he can get up to 100 which is a huge difference. He might have been able to get that in LA but also might not have.