APRIL 28: Paxton underwent Tommy John surgery in the past five to seven days, Servais announced (via Brock).
APRIL 13: Servais confirmed today that Paxton will undergo season-ending surgery (Twitter link via The Athletic’s Corey Brock). Servais did not specify the procedure, only that it would be season-ending elbow surgery.
APRIL 10: Paxton hasn’t yet decided on surgery and will seek a second opinion on his injury, Mariners manager Scott Servais told reporters (including MLB.com’s Daniel Kramer).
APRIL 8: Tommy John surgery has been recommended for Mariners left-hander James Paxton, Jon Heyman of MLB Network reports. If Paxton undergoes the procedure, he’ll miss the rest of this season and at least some portion of the 2022 campaign.
Paxton began his career with the Mariners, who used a fourth-round pick on him in 2010, though after spending 2013-18 in their uniform, they traded him to the Yankees. But Paxton, 32, returned to Seattle in free agency this past offseason on a one-year, $8.5MM deal. Unfortunately, the Big Maple exited his first (and potentially lone) start of 2021 on Tuesday because of forearm troubles. The Mariners then placed Paxton on the 10-day injured list.
While Paxton has typically pitched well in the majors, evidenced by his 3.59 ERA/3.62 SIERA over 137 appearances (all starts) and 754 2/3 innings, various injuries have haunted him since he entered the league in 2013. He has never thrown more than 160 1/3 innings in an individual season, and he totaled just 20 1/3 frames last year while dealing with back issues and a flexor strain. The Yankees then elected against bringing Paxton back, though he did draw substantial interest from teams on the open market before returning to the Mariners. It doesn’t appear the reunion will be fruitful for either side, however.
The Mariners entered the season with Paxton as a key part of their six-man rotation, but it looks as if they will have to make other plans for the rest of the year. At least for now, Nick Margevicius will take Paxton’s spot in the M’s starting staff, complementing Marco Gonzales, Yusei Kikuchi, Justus Sheffield, Chris Flexen and Justin Dunn.
Wow. This is sad for all of baseball, hope surgery is successful and he can play in 2023
Jah major bummer for SeaTac and Canadian baseball fans. Godspeed Mapleman
The Big Balsa
He should be back for the second half of next year.
He’s toast.
“Mmmm..warm buttery toast.”
-Peter Griffin
He’s hurt all the time he’s done
Smuzq- he won’t be back in a Mariners uniform. How’s Taijuan Walker looking now?
That’s why the entire off-season I kept saying Walker Walker Walker and right now sports a beautiful ERA but he’s in the wrong jersey dammit!!!
Seems like every team has one a year somewhere in their organization.
Sad day was so excited to see him in a Mariners uniform again.
I was happy to see him with a beard again. he scared me shaven…
Hide your dark side bro
Nothing is as scary as Odor shaved. Nothing except maybe a shaved bear, but that’s it!
Ouch….
Gms everywhere are going to start performing voodoo soon to try to keep their pitchers healthy thru 2021
Hopefully these injuries slow once the season really gets moving. But dang. It’s m felt like there’s already been a ton of pitching injuries
Tons of em every year for the past decade or so.
As long SP’s can ultimately make up to $36M a year you’re always going to have these types of injuries at this type of rate
how does a players APY equate to injuries? Are you saying theres more pressure to perform and thus push to do everything possible? my opinion it starts in youth leagues and the over use as they grow.
Aw man. Paxton was gonna make the AL West a lot more fun and competitive
Yeah I’m a diehard Rangers fan, and this injury sucks.
WHAT A SHOCK..
I FIGURED HE’D PITCH TILL ALL STAR BREAK BEFORE GETTING HURT & GETTING TOMMY JOHN SURGERY
Nasty man. Don’t fall down the stairs
Way to take the high road…
He did
Unreal. Guy looked like he was back to dominance in the spring. Gotta feel for him; always liked big maple.
I like Paxton too, @Sretcher.
& – yeah – he struck out half the batters he faced. I know it was spring but that’s playstation levels of performance.
The stuff is undeniable with this guy.
Just can’t stay on the field. I was in favor of the Yanks bringing him back. Just more evidence of what a crappy GM I tend to be.
@ducky lol most of us here are bad gm’s, perfect example i was kicking and screaming that we let bos get price over 10mil that bos gave overall than we did. now if you asked me that same question now i’m going “man we dodged a bullet with price. then again that’s also the reason i’m a carpenter and not a gm lol.
Hey, at least we admit it.
There are Yankee fans on the board- for example – that firmly believe that they have a better understanding of baseball than Cashman does.
I was at the old, now defunct River Ave Blues (best Yankee blog evah) when Stanton was acquired. 7000+(!) comments & not one lamenting or panning it.
Today?
“I was against the trade for Stanton from the beginning” (I certainly wasn’t & still am not) is common fare on any Yankees thread. Which…well, I’m calling BS.
@ducky i think all fan bases have them fans, and in some moments i was one of them idiots screaming at my tv at mo because he didn’t make the “sexy” moves. also didn’t help that our rivals the cubs we’re making moves to win. fast forward to now cards are still in the same competitive state and the cubs are struggling to be competitive because of a lot of moves they made. long story short it’s a lot harder for teams like the cards and nyy to build winners every year. our fan bases are not going to accept a full tear down and rebuild then in 6 years repeat the cycle. also i think that is a main factor why bb is getting hard to watch only a handful of teams try. how do you sell suckyness and keep fans engaged, i.e. what incentive do pit or bal fans have to watch a game much less get a 2nd mortgage to go to a game, as a fan of them teams you know your season is over before the 1st pitch it’s hard to even care because you know your going to suck. imo if mlb doesn’t want to kill the golden goose they need to find a way to read the competitive teams than the “tanking” teams because tanking just hurts the sport overall
For sure!
& it is super hard to be competitive every year.
Ya gotta tip your cap to Mo & Cash.
These guys put winning teams on the field every year. That is just not easy. & thank heavens because I simply could not enjoy that.
I abandoned the Knicks & the NBA over that very same thing.
Life is too short to root for crummy teams. The (NY) Giants have been bad more than good in my lifetime but at least they give me hope every year & have delivered 4 & a half times. Enough to keep me going.
Tanking – in my opinion – is *the* problem in MLB. Gotta get rid of it somehow.
@ducky now what i’m about to say might be “left wing” but instead of giving the #1 pick to the worst team in the league. instead you give it to the team that tried but just missed the postseason and the draft order follows. i.e. teams that were close get high picks then go from there. imo all sports are better when every team tries to win a chip, i.e. if the cards tomorrow came out and said “hey we need to rebuild so for the next 5 to 8 years we’re going to suck to improve. as much of a die hard cards fan i am if they said that, i would respond with “see you in 6” because my time is valuable and if my team isn’t going to try why should i watch, i only have so much free time why waste it on watching a team that is pee poor when. could be doing other stuff that’s not as depressing.
Nah, @brodie.
We’re good.
I have been moving beyond labeling anyone anything. Academics & intellectuals have time for “situational ethics”.
Us regular fellas call that “workin’ with what ya got”.
Ya know?
Look. We *all* vote against the guy we hate the most as we are all just stuck with that. I’d have no idea what to even do with myself if I ever discovered a candidate of any party I actually liked.
So.
Anyway.
That is a fantastic solution. It disincentivises losing. I would love to see that. Which seems to ensure we won’t!
Ya know?
“Ok. See you in 6 years.” Pretty much.
I won’t watch a crappy team & I won’t watch a team that doesn’t always bring their best effort.
One of the things I like most about baseball is I can listen to – & now via streaming – or watch a game while I do other stuff. Loading some .410 shells, having an ale, & posting with you while I watch this wretched game right now, for example.
But why subject myself to a team that is not trying to win? Gosh, I’ve no interest in that.
@ducky i’ll still watch my birds even if they “suck” as long as there making an effort to be competitive and trying to put out a good team. all teams go through down periods nyy in the 70’s weren’t great same as the cards or lad in the mid 90’s ~ 00’s. even though them teams weren’t great least they are worth watching and gave fans some hope. if mlb wants to see fans in the stands then put a product worth seeing, as a fan im not paying 60+ for nose bleed seats and $12 man sodas to watch my team not even try to win.
Yeah, for sure.
The Yanks had some 85 win seasons before this group arrived. Too many big name guys who were hurt, past their primes, etc.
But.
The effort was there. Both in the front office & on the field (God love Joe G) so I watched.
When we sold at the deadline in ’16 I flipped. Blew that one too, as that squad hung around most of September & then became this team.
But I threw my phone in my truck! 53 now, & my grandfather was taking me to The Stadium since before I could remember & that was just the second time they’d done that.
I don’t know if I could handle a true rebuild. I know that makes me a Spoiled Yankees Fan but there ya go.
i don’t think that makes you a spoiled fan (and i’m not far removed from the same emotions) it’s team. nyy and stl have set a standard so high that they have no choice but to stay competitive or no one is going to watch. if more teams adopted that attitude most markets would sell out or have more than 100 fans in the stands.
Well…it probably does, @brodie.
But I’m good with it.
Exactly.
We should both be grateful that we’re fans of clubs with intolerant fan bases. Bro. Can you imagine the Yanks doing one of those “March to the sea” rebuilds?
That would be unacceptable in Yankee-land. Cards-land too.
@ducky i can nyy stadium would have about 2k of visiting fans and nyy fans would be out doing other stuff in nyc if nyy went out and “marched out to sea”.
There would suddenly be a lot more mets hats in The City.
Bet.
@ducky i’m only betting on that if i can take the over lol.
“Dominance” Ahahahaha!
Wht is it with the softies these days back in the day pitchers pitched 125 an outing and once in a while pitchers got tommy John now you don’t start your career till u get tommy John all part of this soft generation we live in.
This is quite possibly one of the dumbest comments I’ve seen on this website, and I’ve seen plenty of dumb ones.
Where is that mute button! Burrow and his terrible take
I’m so scared of differing opinions. Where’s my safe place and crayons?
I’m not one for safe spaces but the dude is hurt. Do people in your life criticize you when you get injured?
I think the guys doing that are just trying to get attention. Sure, some are simply ill spirited.
But it is a sure way to piss off a bunch of jocks & they know it.
Fight the good fight.
It’s not just differing, it’s dumb. Back in the day if a pitcher got the kind of injury that Tommy John surgery fixes, their career would be over.
It’s mid April, when will the snowFLAKES go away? Ahahahaha!
Wait…what now, @Riddler?
Because I think celebrating players getting hurt is classless I’m now a “snowFLAKE”? Jeeez. I think you’re being a little cavalier with your accusations.
@ducky i may not see eye to eye with you but on this we can agree on. unless you are a pos of a person celebrating injuries especially career threatening ones is just bloody bush league stuff jock or not.
More likely there were just as many of these types of injuries as there are now. It was simply just the end of their career and nobody cared enough about them after that to remember. Personally I think the strength training adds to this sort of thing though. The tigther you wind something up the more likely it is to tear.
I agree whole-heartedly with the last sentiment that you expressed. Really, with both sentiments. Pitchers always broke down. Maybe not at the rates we see, but they always did. And when they did, they were never heard from again pre=TJ, which made them easy to forget about. Plus, people weren’t nearly as familiar with system prospects to know whether one got hurt before their career had even started.
But yeah, the strength training has an effect. So does the max-effort throwing that guys are doing to light up radar guns and get noticed. Seems like to get a call-up, you’ve got to be popping the glove pretty good. Nobody’s very interested in a guy throwing in the 88-91 range, even if he’s getting minor league hitters out.
So guys try to throw harder, they train to throw harder, and the more strain you put on that arm, especially when you’re younger, the more likely it is to cost you in the long run.
What I loved about Deivi Garcia when he was up was that there was a little restraint to him. He showed that he could hit 94=95, but he pitched an awful lot at 90 and reached back when he needed the gas.
@ JPopp9;
I’ve been watching MLB since 1955.
Pitchers NEVER broke down like this. Even average starters threw 170 innings a year. (And most games I watched were over in 2-1/2 hours at the latest.)
This working the counts and slashing foul balls to get the starting pitchers out of the game ASAP once they hit their 100 pitch maximum is to blame.
Previous to the early 1900’s MLB allowed batters to bunt all the foul balls their hearts desired. Their goal was to place a bunt for a hit in the dead ball era, and to tire out the pitchers – many of whom started and finished full games often within a day or two. The fans were bored sitting around waiting to see some action, and quit attending games. Plus fans had come to see their team go up against a name starting pitcher from another area, and instead of seeing mano a mano, they saw this pussyfooting around. Finally, one league and a year later the next changed the rules to declare a K if the batter bunted foul with 2 strikes.
MLB is starting to change rules to bring the game up to date. It’s time to declare a K after a batter with 2 strikes hits a 2nd or 3rd foul ball. This will result in more balls being put in play, and consequently more action for the fans.
Say what you will about the owners in the 20th century, they would have NEVER let their pitchers be ruined like thus – flailing away putting more and more spin on the ball to “miss bats” only to have problems with wrists, forearms, arms, shoulders while fans are sitting around looking at their smartphones through the inordinate amount of K’s and W’s waiting for something to happen. Todays owners invest millions and tens of millions of dollars in their pitchers, and their front offices ruin them with their “theories”.
CHANGE THE RULES!
Also you didn’t have kids playing travel ball at 5 years old. These guys have a ton more miles on their elbows before they ever even get to professional ball than guys used to back in the day.
It’s amazing how fragile the pitchers of today are. In 1975, Catfish Hunter threw 30 complete games in one season. The league LEADERS in 2018 had 2 each! 2019 had 3 each, and in 2020 we were back at 2. That’s insane.
Nolan Ryan threw 5,386 innings in his career. With the pitchers of today topping out around 180 per year, they’d have to pitch 30 consecutive years without injury to equal that mark. They are coddling these guys like week old children and I think that is a major factor in their fragility. Nolan Ryan threw as hard as any of today’s pitchers well into his 40’s, so I don’t know how much velocity has to do with it. Ryan also had quite the right hook if a hitter charged the mound (Robin Ventura) LOL.
It’s really a shame that guys like Paxton continue to get hurt, and maybe that’s just how his body works, but something has changed to cause these guys overall to become so injury prone. Time to figure out what that is and make some adjustments. Way too much money at steak these days to have these $5-$20+ million dollar pitchers out of commission for a year or more at a time
I live in Florida. There are kids on my son’s team that play 30 innings every weekend, all year round.
KCJ, first look at every difference between 1970 to today. In fact, take it from the Bob Gibson/Denny McLain season. Look at every rule change that affected the pitcher. Look at little changes like the baseball, the seams, the backgrounds in CF. Look at the difference in the way the strike zone is enforced. Look at the differences with hitters, where they stand, how they look. Look at how organizations bring up pitching prospects today versus then.
Put everything together and you might see why pitchers are going down. Pre-draft pitching usage is also a factor.
They also had 5 run ERA’s and it was a laudable achievement to strike out more than 1 per IP, especially if your name wasn’t Ryan/Clemens/Johnson. There were also, at varying times, up to 10 less teams. So even if it was on “every team” it was still less frequent.
Stop with the old-timer crap. It’s annoying and no one likes it or cares.
He (burrow_is_a_bust2.0) may have phrased it poorly but he is not that far off base. TJS has been around since 1974 and looking at the numbers of MLB TJS surgeries per year MLB surgeries stayed below 20 until 2000 and it’s never dropped below 20 since 2011 (that includes last year’s short season when there were 31). 2000 was the year it really started to explode….. here is a quick look – 1974 (1)…. 78 (1)…. 81 (1)…. 82 (3)…. 84 (2)…. 85 (2)…. 86 (5)…. 87 (1)….88 (7)….89 (6)…. 90 (5)…. 91 (9)…. 92 (5)…. 93 (7)…. 94 (9)…. 95 (8)…. 96 (11)…97 (9)…98 (9)….99 (16)…. 2000 (24)….2001 (26)…. 2002 (38)….2003 (29)….2004 (32). There was a dip from 2005-2010 but it jumped to 29 in 2011 (which was also the last year any pitcher passed 250 IP (Verlander 251). The last time 300 ip was topped was 1980 by Carlton (304). TJS was known about and used, even on Minor League players all through the 80’s and 90’s, so it’s not like it was shunned. David Wells had it in 85 in AA and Jack Morris in 86 in A ball, just to name two who went on to star in MLB.
If a guy tore his UCL at age 34 in the 80’s there wasn’t much incentive to go through the surgery, along with the grueling rehab just to see if you could somehow make it back, so they retired. Today, guys are getting paid $8 million dollar deals to rehab. So they get one/two/or even sometimes 3 TJS.
We ought to look up to see when the “slide step” came into extensive use. Guys are throwing all arm, overthrowing everything, even their curveballs that they learned in pre-k and have been working on spin-rate since 2nd grade and their arms just can’t hold up. Did Nolan Ryan ever hit 100mph in a game?
@sid are you asking if ryan hit a 100 before the mlb or during, i can’t say he did before the mlb but he has at least 1 pitch clocked at 100.09 (or something real close to it) but where ryan’s fb was clocked 10 feet from the dish, math experts have done the math on where his “100” fb and they say it’s like 108. tbh what’s more impressive at age 60+ he can still throw 90+. whenever ryan passes (hopefully it’s not for a long time) they need to either study his arm or put it the Smithsonian
Weight training is part of it and analytics are the other part of it.
The game is more or less, “You can’t get through the lineup 3 times, so you might as well throw as hard as you can every pitch because we’re taking you out by the 5th inning anyhow. And oh by the way, there’s a thousand other guys that can throw 98 waiting behind you if you blow out your arm.”
The human arm is simply not designed to throw baseballs that hard over and over.
I am a firm believer in limited pitching rosters, to 10, possibly 11. It would force teams to require pitchers to go longer and therefore throw at something less than 100% every time. It would also probably bring back some much needed offense. It won’t ever happen, but its always nice to dream.
Sadler, I hear what you are saying. But baseball would have to equalize the rules and alter the game back to its former self in order to bring it back to that level.
That would mean raising the mound back to 15 inches, calling letter high strikes and some pitches off both sides of the plate, allowing fans to sit in CF with no background visual (some parks had that), ban all arm protection on hitters, use the same baseball dimensions (seams, weight, size, etc), and attempt to push fences back and higher in as many parks possible to cater to the size and growth of average hitters.
Then perhaps we can see starters go deeper in games and use less pitchers on a roster.
I remember reading (either Jim Bouton’s or Bill Lee’s book) about lefty Jim Merritt wearing a ladies nylon stocking around his elbow to try holding it together while pitching. Think he was with the Reds at that time. No TJS in those days.
A shame about Paxton. He was putting up Bugs Bunny numbers this spring and I was looking forward to seeing a great season out of him. He’ll set a good example for the young talented Mariners pitchers by toughing out yet another rehab and coming back strong next summer. I hope Seattle gives him another year. He’s home there.
I watched a documentary on this. Its mostly mechanics. Where back before the 80s pitchers mostly had sling motion and pitched mostly with the shoulder rather then the whole arm with less stress to the elbow, forearm etc. If you look at a Seaver, Gibson or Ryan you can see the difference. Pitched with power. It was pretty interesting. It was on youtube.
Also very true. Windups were very, very different. Mound height also might have played some role in taking the legs and gravity out of the equation for power pitchers.
All conspires to put more strain on the elbow and shoulder.
I wonder what the numbers on serious shoulder injuries compare in recent years to the past. You still hear about guys who injure their shoulders and are never the same or can’t even make it back to the majors. There just seem to be a lot fewer announced rotator cuff tears as in the 80s and 90s. It makes me wonder whether, in addition to the maximum effort approach that has arguably raised the level of pitching in today’s game–Seaver always talked about how you wouldn’t give 100 percent on every pitch just the ones that matter most in a game, the advances in pitching mechanics to reduce shoulder stress have made elbow injuries more common.
@Lee Thank for that I will have to search YouTube for it. Have you ever watched the Doc “Fastball”. It is good and dispels some myths about “how slow pitchers threw”.
Bingo – hardly anybody has an overhead motion anymore and builds up that momentum using the entire body to generate the strength to throw a pitch
Hey guys I found the idiot
I don’t think he did it on purpose.. but I’m sure you know better.
You want him to pitch through a torn ulnar collateral ligament?
Back in my day, we’d throw until our arm literally fell off. Then we’d put our glove on the stump and pitch with the other arm!!
GET OFF MY LAWN!!
One of my first games was opening day at shea in 1983. Seaver vs. Carlton in the Twilight of there careers. Neither backing down.
It’s recency bias. With a 24/7 news cycle and Twitter, we learn about every player stubbing their toe now. Back then, print space/air-time was limited and we wouldn’t know 90+% of what gets reported today. Guys like Paxton simply faded into oblivion until you saw him pitch again on national TV. TJ surgery offers players another chance rather than early retirement from the game.
first of all i hope the best for the big maple and he can avoid tjs but if he can’t hope for a speedy recovery. i think we are seeing a lot of injuries now for many reason, 1 were in the information age and an article on a website is minuscule opposed to traditional print where you were limited to actual physical space. second i think a lot of players don’t take the time off to rest in the offseason seems like these guys work 100% year round. finally i think a lot of young kids are learning poor mechanics early and playing in all year bb leagues and learning off speed pitches to early. now i only topped out in hs but i can tell i felt the off speed more in my elbow than the fastball. tbh i think the rise on injuries is a multi reason issue and not a “yep that’s the reason” issue.
@Brodie Those are all very valid points. Way back then, players used Spring Training to get in shape. Then the “I’m in the best shape of my life” crowd arrived ready to go. Notice no one says that anymore bc it’s expected of you now. Baseball pays very well so the competition keeps increasing.
@ybc another point i just thought off i think many players are going “max effort” after the season, which is a double edge sword, yes you “gotta a leg up on the competition” but you also in the same time never let yourself rest and recover. imo i think a lot of mlb players would benefit long term if they take a month or 2 off after the season. just do light workouts to maintain i.e. light jog or just do 30~40% of max effort on calisthenics, or just play a pick up game with the local college basketball team. long story short i think players need to value rest as much as performance, i can tell you for a fact in my trade which is very physicaly demanding only way i’m making it 30 years is if i pace myself and i’m smart about my rest/max effort
Dude, you just went full retar….well you know.
Its the velocity and basically everything being max effort. When pitchers pitched 250+ i think most fastballs were 88-93 now everything is 96+, theres guys now that throw sliders now faster then fastballs were 25-30 years ago
@murphy i don’t think it’s all just max effort (and i’m not saying it doesn’t take a toll) but off speed pitches are just as harmful if not more so, in hs i can tell you when i threw a fb it didn’t hurt as much as a cb. just like i’ve said in this post or another post i think injuries across the board are up for multiple reasons not just one.
Brodie, I think you made another point without realizing it.
Around where I’m from, high school kids very seldom used to go offspeed compared to what they do now.
Used to be you’d only be really getting to learning some off speed stuff and really develop it if you went further.
Now, if you haven’t been learning off speed before high school, you’re behind the curve. (I know, I know, bad pun)
But point remains, the human body is growing and developing as a teen. For you to be a preteen and honing offspeed pitches so you’re on a level field in hs… too young, and it HAS to have an effect.
@ga ty i was just reminiscing but i didn’t start throwing off speed until hs, now it seems like 12yo are trowing 12 to 6 cb’s. kids that young don’t need to throw breaking pitches. that age work on locating and good mechanics, to this day i think my left shoulder is messed up because i try to mimic griffey’s swing. what i didn’t realize as kid copying his swing was he was a grown man and i was a kid.
Burrow is going to be the most muted commenter on the entire website….absolute guarantee. Apparently he’s already been banned once now that he has to have the 2.0 attached to his screen name. I’m sure it won’t take long until it happens again.
Go look on BR at pitchers from the 50s and 60s. Look how many had good careers and then seemingly disappeared from baseball at age 26, 27, 28. Why? Because they blew out their arms and there WAS no surgery available.
Burrow- back in those days the avg FB velo wasn’t what it is today. For ex: in the 1980’s the avg FB velo was 88-89mph (via radar) compared to 93.1 mph (statcast) in 2019. Throw the ball harder= more injuries/being called soft by trolls
@ayrbhoy…… judging FB velocity from the 70’s up until PitchFX was adopted is more anecdotal (much like the idea that some fastballs rise) than factual. There are several reasons for that. A big one is where the pitch is measured at in relation to home plate.
For example, Nolan Ryan’s famous 100.9 mph fastball in the 9th inning of an August game in 1974 was measured 10 ft in front of home plate. Chapman’s 105.1 mph is considered the fastest ever but, here is the catch. Chapmans FB was recorded 50 feet from home plate, shortly after it left his hand. A fastball decreases in speed 1 mph per every 5.5 feet. If you do the math Ryan’s fastball was 108.5 MPH
Bob Feller was measured at 98.6 MPH but again it was not measured at 50 feet from the plate so when adjusted he breaks 107. Feller stated that Koufax had the best fastball he ever saw so who knows how fast he threw.
Watch the documentary “Fastball”
I have already enjoyed watching that documentary- love the copper on a motorbike racing a fastball! Really wish I could’ve seen Feller or Satchel in person. I specifically compared the 1980’s when there was more reliable data to compare. Besides it’s common knowledge that FB velo avg is higher now
Cat man do- you prob mis-read my comment. I didn’t say the fastest velo recorded. I was talking about the yearly average FB velo of the entire league
@cat fastball was a good doc. and also how to this day peta hates randy. to this day i still think the ball exploded than a bird
Unfortunate. Wish him the best
Brian Cashman knows when to let them go Paxton & Betances Caveat Emptor
Cashman couldn’t identify a good pitcher if it smacked him in the a$$
Look at Cashman’s history and you see that is not exactly true.
CC Sabathia disagrees
Cashman signed El Duque. He signed Mussina, who worked out pretty well. CC was a great move. Kuroda was a great move. Tanaka worked out pretty well. Cole is still here. Paxton was solid when he wasn’t hurt. Happ wasn’t awful. Sevvy was pretty good when healthy. They just walked away from Lance Lynn a year too soon. He’s pulled relievers out of relative obscurity at least a dozen times.
He’s whiffed on a few moves, but at least you KNEW what he was TRYING to do. Hard to blame somebody for a great move that doesn’t work out.
Did Cashman sign Kei Igawa?
So cashman identified excellent starting pitching in free agency with huge dollars to spend? Brilliant man!
Upvote for you. Cash hasn’t produced ONE mid to upper level arm from the farm.
He still didn’t let judge go and he traded for Stanton those guys live half the year in the I.L.
Let Judge go? They’re still a few years away from having to commit serious $
Ahh yes, two good examples of pitching mistakes by Cashman. Very relevant to the discussion.
@burrow i can’t fault cash on judge or stanton, it’s easy as fans to look at hindsight and go you should of done that. tbh i wanted stanton on the birds and sf wanted him too and when stanton is healthy he is a hitter you have to respect, and a guy like judge (especially being on the cheap side) you just don’t trade away. true good power hitters are rare and if you have one or has the potential to be one and your not rebuilding you hold on to him.
He still could since he’s a free agent after the 2022 season and although he’s a very good player, his injury history make it too risky for them to extend him.
@eatdust666 never said he would be a risky extension but what makes it hard (just like stanton) when he’s healthy he is one of the best hitters in the game, but how often is he healthy.
btw not dissing judge or stanton both are dynamic hitters and great players it’s there ability to stay healthy.
Robertson too
Y do pitchers these days get tommy John way more then back in the day such a softie cmon
The same reasons that morons spew idiotic bile- because they can
It looks like we found the favorite to get the mute button first.
burrow_is_a_bust2.0 is making an early splash in the effort to lead the MLBTR muted list…
I’m super late but Joe Burrow is the best thing to happen to the Bengals in years
Not another one! I was really hoping that Seattle was going to get some real benefit from him. I am excited for their future.
Mistake sorry
It takes a big man to admit his mistakes, and you are that big man.
Paxton just cannot stay healthy. Boras is a magician getting him the contract he did. $8.5m for two innings work.
I’m sure Paxton’s thrilled about the light workload. Not like he was trying to parlay a strong year into 10x what he got for this season on a multi=year deal or something.
Sadly this is another in a long line of tough breaks for Paxton. Without the health problems he would have been a consistent top 10 SP in the league. Now he’s probably headed to the bullpen whenever he comes back
Sad news for Paxton. Hopefully he can bounce back from this.
Wow all it took was one start in a Mariners jersey to end Paxton’s season. 29 GM’s right now are patting themselves on the back for dodging this bullett. Meanwhile Jerry is reminding everyone that this is why he doesn’t sign free agents and why he traded Paxton in the first place
I’m sure folks are taking victory laps over Paxton’s injury. Sorta the way everybody celebrates in NASCAR when a driver crashes, since like… they don’t have to pass that guy in the race any more. 😛
I liked Paxton a lot the last couple of years in Pinstripes. Was sad to see him go in spite of the injuries. Watching him throw the ball, you always feel like if he stays healthy, he’s going to do something special when he’s out there. Seems like a good dude too. Shame this happened for him, and I really do hope he recovers quickly and catches a break with the injuries going forward. Would love to see him pitch healthy and do what he’s capable of, even if it’s not for my team.
Told ya so months ago he’s done. Poor signing..
Now the mets will trade for him
hate to see it
As an Angels fan, I always enjoyed watching The Big Maple pitch. I often didn’t like the results as he could dominate, but it’s very sad to see a quality MLB pitcher go down again with another ailment.
The pathetic thing is someone will listen to Boras’s song and dance routine and give Paxton $5m or more next year. How do I know? Boras is the best at what he does and Rich Hill always seems to have someone willing to pay him.
Would $5 million next season really be that bad of a gamble on a pitcher with Paxton’s pedigree, if he’s nearly fully healthy to open next season? The risk is obvious, but the potential payoff could be well worth it.
I would not take the gamble ( although someone will).
1. Pedigree?……9 years with an average of 15 starts isn’t very impressive and before all the metrics guys assault my comment, 15 starts either over taxes a bullpen or forces his team to pretty consistently have another starter to take his place in the rotation.
2. Who said he would be ready to start next season….TJ can take up to an 18 month time frame just to start pitching competitively.
3. The biggie here….TJ surgery does not guarantee that the player is going to be either as good, or better than they were before undergoing to procedure….he may or may not ever be able to come back to being who he was prior to TJ.
4. I would agree that somebody will think they can catch lightning in a bottle and having Boras in his corner probably guarantees that he will have suitors.
Yankee you are right bro. I remember mark texeira firing boras after he got him almost 200 million in free agency. The weirdest most weird thing ive ever witnessed
Can everyone who killed the Mets step up and admit they were wrong.
It’s as if there are more injuries than Covid cases………….weird.
If Cashman knew when to let go of injured players why the F does he keep Judge.
There are how many times more pitchers in the majors today than there were before 1960? 30 teams and often they use as many as 20 pitchers or more in the course of a season. Back then? 16 teams and maybe they use 10 pitchers. So you’re asking 4 times as many arms to try and perform at the major league level. Maybe there’s twice as many hitters. That’s a profound dilution. Every rule change plus totally ignored PED use to the benefit of the hitter. Pitchers being asked to throw harder and harder with higher spin rates to a shriveled up strike zone. Having to face batters with metal bats at every nonprofessional level until they’re adults. All because the keepers of the game worry about one thing. Money. The game is essentially meaningless except for the income it provides. Pitchers are simply not as talented as they used to be but then the game was much more pitcher friendly to those who had the talent. So they didn’t have to blow their arms out to succeed. I’m sick of it.
In 2019, the NL West used 153 pitchers. In 1960, the NL used 128 pitchers. So maybe not quite 4 times as many pitchers. In 2019, the NL West used 118 batters. In 1960, the NL used 194 batters.
Pitchers/Batters were 128/194 versus now 153/118. There are more pitchers than batters? What a mess.
And now have to pitch downhill
Pitching these days is brutal on an arm. Rooting for him to recover. Been tough on him – he can be so good. Frustrating for him. Wish him well
It would be an achievement if we can go 30 days without a TJS from any professional pitcher, majors or minors.
Another job opening.
I watched him with the Yankees and saw how he had a sudden drop in velocity along with a forearm strain and immediately thought it was going to end up being TJ surgery. How is it that it was obvious to me as a baseball fan and not obvious to his doctors? Did they somehow miss it or was it only a slight tear he thought he could handle without surgery? Either way, they screwed the pooch because he could’ve had TJ last fall and been well into rehab by now. That is why Cashman did not even attempt to resign him and why most GM’s knew better.
How do you emphatically know that no attempt was made to re-sign him?
I followed the Yankees offseason pretty closely. Never read anything that suggested the team was in talks…let alone serious talks, to re-sign him.
I believe pitchers are more susceptible today to injuries than say the 60’s or 70’s for various reasons. Cutters, Sliders, Split Finger Pitches and Max Effort Fastballs all contribute to today’s pitcher constantly heading to the DL for some type of surgery.
To ALL of you who had smart ass negative comments. The man is fighting right now to do what he loves. How many of you get paid to do what you love.
I wish you all the best James, come back strong!….from a Rangers fan.
Can’t wait to see Logan Gilbert get called up. Hopefully sooner rather than later
Uggh. We got one good year out of two from him on the Yankees and was rooting for him back in Seattle. He has a great arm and is a lefty, and TJS has a high success rate, so he can still get it together, but likely won’t be 2023 before he can go full out again.
Well, that’s rough. Hopefully he can come back stronger. Unfortunately doubtful with his history
A talented pitcher, but sadly, the one thing you can’t teach an athlete is how to remission healthy.
Shades of what happened to Corey Kluber last year–he lasted one inning. Another factor to consider is how pitchers are used when they are in their teens.
You know what else is recommended for him. Early retirement then he’s a winner.
Well of course we all saw this coming. Throw 97-100 for years then arm is dead. Your body is telling you something hang it up man. Felix is close to it. Now The Big Maple is gone. Maybe Jamie Moyer can come pitch, a true example of location and movement not speed. That’s why he pitched into his 40s.
The injuries seem to get worse and worse. It’s never going to get better.
Wrap it up MLB. Time of fold the league.
And to think I was upset with Jays for not signing him . Good break for Jays but wishing great recovery for Big Maple
Man, I was really rooting for him to return to where he was when he was in Seattle before. This sucks.
But on another note who’s next up? Give a start or 2 to Margevicius to give him a shot? Or do they go with Newsome or Flexen for now? I doubt they call up Gilbert.
Marge will probably get 3 or 4 starts and at that point they will make the decision on who will be replaced by Gilbert. That’s my guess, and of course I would love to see Gilbert sooner than later but they are going slow with him.
Wow! I’m glad the Angels steered clear of both Paxton and Rosenthal. It’s only been a week but Claudio, Cishek, Watson, Guerra, Iglesias, Sledgers, Rodriguez, and Mayers are looking real good. They’ve faced white Sox, Astros, and BlueJays and have come out 5-2. Alex Cobb looking real good with that splitter and Ohtani is playing like somebody lit a fire under him. Heaney and Quintana are the ones looking awful right now.
Paxton is a fan favorite, it’s hard to see him get injured again. As for Evan White, they should put him on the IL retroactive to 4/8. Marmolejos hit a hr on Thursday and could be getting hot. Give Marmolejos some abs while White is on the IL and call up Walton for depth.
That would work out well
Since France could play some first base as well. Really really hope Evan white can turn it around but lookin like we should get him AAA ABs in May/June
Sad news. See you in Cooperstown, James.
Tickets are $24.99
Wow, it went up a cpl dollars since I was there
Removed from the first game… The Ms can’t seem to catch a lucky break when it comes to SPs.
The Yankees must of known this outcome must of been a possibility. Did Seattle not require a physical before signing him?
Has it occurred to you that the extent of any elbow damage Paxton had then wasn’t a concern to Seattle’s medical team? What does the Yankees have to do with anything?
Correlation is not causation.
That’s a shame. Called him returning to Seattle and was hoping he’d give them an Ace like season. Hope he rehabs well.
DiPoto should be fired for signing Paxton….hometown discount……LMAO…..Paxton’s injury history should have dissuaded any GM with common sense.
Fired for that?
He signed a one year deal. They didn’t lose a player, they didn’t trade a player and I think the M’s can afford taking such a chance.
If it works, they trade him at the deadline, or offer him a qualifying offer.
Teams bet millions on first round picks and most are a worse bets than Paxton.
Paxton signing was slightly better than the Yates signing.
See you in Cooperstown, James!
……tickets are $24.99.
Maybe time to chop it down Maple
Wishing big maple a quick recovery and return to his career!