Wander Franco has performed well in his first 52 plate appearances at Triple-A, posting a .348/.404/.652 slash line that befits his status as baseball’s top prospect. However, it doesn’t appear likely that Franco will get a quick promotion to the big leagues, Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times writes. The Rays aren’t likely to rush a 20-year-old who is only now getting his first taste of the pros beyond the A-ball level, and naturally, some payroll considerations are likely at play — delaying Franco’s debut until at least late June would probably keep him from reaching Super Two status. A pre-career contract extension would address that concern, but Topkin doesn’t see such a deal as very likely.
Beyond just the financial aspects, the Rays don’t want to make a development misstep with a prospect who represents such a major part of their future. “The team wants “to be ’more’ sure a player is ready, and avoiding the confidence crusher of sending him back. Also, they definitely want to avoid putting a young player in a role of being cast as a ’savior’ as Franco might be if the Rays offense still was struggling when he was summoned,” Topkin writes. This doesn’t mean that Tampa Bay wouldn’t turn to its farm system in the event of a sudden need, of course, but Topkin feels that Vidal Brujan or Taylor Walls (notable prospects in their own right) would get the call ahead of Franco since Brujan and Walls are both a few years older, and also already on the 40-man roster.
More from around the AL East…
- The Yankees are hoping that Rougned Odor will be back from the injured list in time to face off with his old Rangers teammates, as per Bryan Hoch of MLB.com (via Twitter). New York begins a four-game set against Texas beginning today. Odor was placed on the 10-day IL on May 5 due to a left knee sprain. Though Odor has hit just .164/.271/.361 in pinstripes, the Yankees are in need of middle infield reinforcements due to Tyler Wade’s similarly underwhelming offense and Gleyber Torres’ COVID list absence.
- The Red Sox are expected to activate Enrique Hernandez from the 10-day IL on Tuesday prior to their game with the Blue Jays. Boston made the first move in this direction by optioning infielder Jonathan Arauz to Triple-A today, thus clearing a spot on the active roster. A right hamstring strain sent Hernandez to the injured list on May 7, so the utilityman would miss only the minimum 10 days of action. Christian Arroyo’s IL placement due to a hand contusion was also retroactively dated to May 7, but Alex Speier of the Boston Globe notes (Twitter link) that Arroyo won’t join the Sox for the start of their road trip against the Jays and Phillies this week. Arroyo did begin hitting off a tee yesterday, however, so his return might not be far off. The Red Sox have played with a three-man bench for much of the season, and if they choose to stick with this roster alignment, Michael Chavis would be the odd man out once Arroyo is ready to be reinstated from the IL.
Bloody stupid, Wander is obviously ready now. When are MLB teams finally going to give up on the big lie of “every player needs minor league seasoning”? Last season proved it’s just not necessary for a lot more of these players than we thought. These backwards-thinking idiots refuse that some players are just born ready. Like, we lost years of Kris Bryants and whoever else dominated every second of minor league ball’s prime due to this. Wander is just another one. So dumb, stop stealing these players primes from us fans!
Agreed. Let’s hope the next CBA will have free agency tied to the player’s age. That will put an end to this nonsense. As for Wander, if the Rays can’t market him and a WS appearance into a bigger following, then they shouldn’t be in the business.
that’s just going to hurt older players
It won’t hurt anyone. Best players play. If older players are still productive, they will find a job somewhere.
What really hurts both older and younger players is the ridiculous 3-man bench. You’ve got really talented position players that can’t crack the roster because there’s only 2 non-catcher bench spots available. So much for bringing in a pinch hitter for a crucial at-bat, or bringing in a defensive replacement. It’s all about 1-inning relievers and lots of pitching matchups. A 14-man pitching staff? Pure nonsense.
It especially hurts NL teams. I would like to see a 28-man roster. A problem is some teams would want to carry 15 pitchers.
Fever Pitch Guy
What really hurts both older and younger players is the ridiculous 3-man bench.
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Wouldn’t that depend on whether or not your 4th bench player was more valuable than your 14th pitcher? This year, considering how little everyone pitched last year, I am not expecting a ton of innings, and I’d rather have the 14th pitcher.
Of course, that also revolves around the flexibility of your bench players. The NYY, for example, are less flexible than the RS, so for them, it might make more sense to have a 4-man bench.
Spot on !
Baseball is starting the process of doing this the worst way possible too – by eliminating minor league teams. That will force the better players to top of pool quicker and Eventually they’ll change the arbitration pay scale but they are so incredibly slow at any of these- mlb comes across as completely incompetent.
Been a long time since mlb or players union acted in according to what fans want. They both keep tinkering to try new things like make games faster but it’s never from an understanding of what’s going to make the game more popular and then acting in accordance with that understanding
boy, With some of the astounding young talent entering the game, MLB has the potential to widen its audience like never before. I’m talking international appeal a la what happened with the NBA. It would behoove MLB to get its act together. They need to stop dwelling on the negative and do all they can to sell what’s good about the game. I cannot stand Game of the Week telecasts where the announcers spend nine full innings talking about what’s wrong with baseball. Those games attract fringe fans who haven’t fully committed to following the sport. Yet here’s MLB turning them away by making them think they’re watching a defective product. Dumb way to market a product.
MLB needs a franchise in western Canada, preferably Vancouver. And, they should immediately
place a AAA team in Mexico City, Havana and Montreal with the intention of upgrading these cities up to MLB level within the next 10 years. Perhaps moving Tampa Bay to Montreal is an alternative solution. Florida does not need to MLB teams, considering the fact the Grapefruit League plays there during the spring when tourists visit. I would also suggest moving the Baltimore franchise to Charlotte, or Oklahoma City to fill in the gaps between American cities. Baltimore is only 40 miles from Washington, where the Nats play.
I agree with your thought process of spacing but spacing doesn’t always work. Oklahoma City can’t support a MLB franchise and nothing is close enough to add the needed fan base to support a franchise in that area. Other sports need to be considered when picking locations. Oklahoma City is in football country so like the Texas Rangers, they will be the second sport if not third. The population simply won’t provide the base needed to support a franchise. Major cities need to be selected first since they have the potential based on population. Florida has spring training like Arizona so putting multiple teams in a state which already has spring training and is heavily populated with senior citizens or retirees is also a bad idea.
Your thoughts about Canada and Mexico are progressive but considering the recent impact of COVID on travel they also introduce problems that Toronto faced during COVID. I agree that there are cities that are within the borders of the US that could support a franchise (either a move or a new team) but the only suggestion you made that seems to meet the criteria is Charlotte. Nashville is a possibility and I’m sure there must be others throughout the 48 states between Maine and California. The challenge is finding enough fans in a city to make the team viable.
Pittsburgh has been a great franchise like Cincinnati but their cities are small enough to make them less effective than bigger cities with more spending power. Your idea works better if the MLB changed it’s approach to competitive balance. Allowing the Yankees to spend $300M in a year when Miami spends $37M on payroll makes for a very uneven playing field. Tighter controls on spending need to be implemented to allow all teams the opportunity to have a chance at winning comparable to the rest of the league. The size of the city should not dictate how competitive a team should be in Sports. In business you can make that argument so it’s time to change baseball back to being a sport not a business. That solves your location issues and promotes the game in the gaps that have nothing now and allows for International expansion.
Remember 2 years ago when Vladdy Jr. was 20 and tearing it up in AAA so the Blue Jays called him up? It took him til this year to start to put it together because he clearly needed a little more time to develop. Franco skipped AA and has only played 11 games in AAA. No reason to rush the kid just yet
Ronk325, The problem is that the decision shouldn’t be based on service time. With the current system, it always appears that way.
if it was purely service time he’d be up by now
Cey Hey, Franco has only played 11 games above A+ and didn’t play professional ball at all last year. Those factors on top of him only recently turning 20 are why he’s still in the minors. If Franco had the full minor league season last year he would have probably been up by now. In most cases I agree that teams are manipulating service time but I don’t think this is one of them
That’s not the problem! This kid needs time period.
No because the Rays also don’t want Franco to be a Super 2 which is part of service time.
Rank325 – Traditional thinking works fine in most cases but Franco isn’t most cases. Franco is in the minors for the extra year of control but his skill level dictates that he be in the majors.
You must treat each case individually. If you find a protege in any walk of life you don’t want to hold them back. Not every player is a protege but good front offices need to identify those that are or are so exceptional they shouldn’t follow the normal rules of progression through the minors.
Watching Franco struggle and learn how to adjust to what pitchers are doing to him is part of the process and should happen at the major league level right now.
Guerrero had more than the same challenges that Franco has, he was the son of a HOFer. That added pressure surely contributed to his initial challenges because he had expectations on him from both the public and his family. Franco is simply in the spotlight of the public like Harper or Soto. Tatis and Guerrero both had greater issues to overcome and did it successfully.
If you have watched Franco play, you can understand why keeping him at AA is a waste of time. He’s the kid that needs to be tossed in the deep end of the pool because he’s going to figure out how to swim quickly and when he does he’ll be the best swimmer in the pool. Spending a year or two in the wading pools to help get him ready is a waste of time. That is not the case for most players but each player’s development has to be crafted individually.
Franco needs to stay in the minors until he clears Super 2 status and then he’ll never play there again.
Is it not better to watch them struggle to find their way in The Show vs never seeing em play ?
Reds are a good example of this. They are broke and have no pitching. Yet lodolo and hunter Greene are destroying AA. They are better options than anyone not named tejay antone in the whole pen but most likely won’t get the call at all or until the end of the season at best due to the financial ramifications tied to calling them up.
Systems broke ! Time for traditionalists to come around on it
Yep. If you run in place, you fall behind as everyone else is moving forward. Kinda like Satchel Paige’s “Don’t Look Back” quote. Baseball needs to stop trying to please old-timers like me. I’m in this for life. What I want to see is kids everywhere wearing Tatis, Soto, and Ohtani gear. Push the game into the future.
With the exception of Othani, both Tatis and Soto made it to AA before they were called up and neither had a full minor league season wiped out the year before being promoted. Akil Baddoo made the jump from A+ to majors and started on fire. Since then he is hitting .221 and in a span of 12 games has gone 3-28 with 11 strikeouts and mostly he is being exposed. If major league hitting is down as a whole then there is no reason to rush a kid to major with only high A experience under his belt. Let him face Triple a pitching for a month or two and then you can see if he is truly ready.
Ronk325
Remember 2 years ago when Vladdy Jr. was 20 and tearing it up in AAA so the Blue Jays called him up?
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Virtually no one is ready at age 20. It is not only a complete waste of service time, it is a waste of their productive years. Even if a kid is good enough to start at age 20 (the rare exception), they will still be better at age 28 than at age 20.
So, if you bring a kid up at age 20, you get 6.5 seasons out of him. That’s ages 21-26. His age 27 & 28 seasons will almost sure be better than his age 21 & 22 seasons.
JB – Can we say only EXCEPTIONAL players are ready at 20 and Wander may be at that level? It didn’t hurt Vlad to be up at 20, it quickened his development and it taught him humility, which is a valuable asset for a player. It doesn’t always hurt the player! Sometimes, like in the case of Devers, it hurt the team. His defense was atrocious and it hurt the team BUT his bat helped the team at times. He should have been in the minors to develop his defense but clearly it’s so bad no amount of development would have improved it. He could have been in the minors until 50 and not gotten as good on defense as an all-conference 3B in High School. So it’s not always bad to have a player up early but EVERY case needs to be evaluated individually. Pivetta is a perfect example of why you shouldn’t. In fact, he’s a perfect example of why teams shouldn’t promote in the minors prematurely. Give players time to dominate at a level before they move up. Jeter Downs never mastered AA but is now in AAA hitting .220 with a K rate like Dalbec and Chavis in the minors but no home run power displayed. This should NOT be a shock. He never mastered AA. Being too eager to laud a minor leaguer can ruin them. Ask Pivetta. If the Red Sox don’t fix the situation Down’s value will drop even farther and his trade value with it. He’ll end up as a throw-in two years from now. Bloom should have corrected the situation already. Just one more tick mark on why he needs to go.
The team is coming back to reality and all the inflated expectations will be gone soon and that just leaves fans with enjoying the performance of their favorite players. JD, Bogey and even Devers’ offense has been worthy. Sale will be back and Houck will be up about the same time and hopefully Duran proves he can handle AAA so he comes up mid year. Those developments can give Red Sox fans hope for 2022. But the Red Sox will still need to replace Mookie’s productivity if they want to make the playoffs. You can’t get that type of talent without spending money so maybe this off season Mookie’s skills will finally be replaced but with Bloom as GM I find it hard to believe.
FYI… The ONLY reason Wander Franco hasn’t come up yet is TB is more conservative than some of the other teams with guys in the same class. Kellenic came up and that means he’s more likely to be a super 2 than Franco. There have been several recent call-ups and all will be competing for the top 22% while their teams will be hoping for bottom 78%.
July 1 should be a safe time for Houck to be promoted since he was up last year and those days count in your totals for Super 2. June might be pushing it depending on how many other teams bring guys up in May and early June because those players don’t have days that count from 2020.
Some teams aren’t as focused on the Super 2 rule as others. Some might have offers in mind like Robert got. Regardless, the rule is incredibly stupid and harms the game. Set a number of years or a number of days on the roster and then force arbitration the day they meet the criteria. That will force owners to plan ahead and everyone will no longer be talking about Super 2 as a reason a guy isn’t promoted.
Less focus on base-runners on 2B in extra innings and more focus on removing rules that hurt the game like Super 2.
KD17
JB – Can we say only EXCEPTIONAL players are ready at 20 and Wander may be at that level? It didn’t hurt Vlad … Sometimes, like in the case of Devers, it hurt the team.
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1-I’m not saying it can’t be done, but they would have to be exceptional.
2-This is the crux of my entirely argument. The promotion usually doesn’t hurt the player; it hurts the team. If I were, say a top-20 prospect, I’d prefer to be promoted at age 20, struggle for a couple of years, and be a FA by age 26.
But that hurts the team. Ignoring the service time issue, take Bogaerts & Devers. In his first two years, Devers had a 1.1 bWAR/650. That’s a waste of one year of service, given that he will have a 5 WAR when he is 27.
Bogaerts is even a better example. We promoted him because we needed a 3B, but he wasn’t close to full Bogie we’ve come to expect. He was a 2.9 bWAR/650 thru age 24. Now he’s blossomed into a 5-6 WAR player.
Machado & Vlad were the same. Both could play when they were promoted, but none of these players were nearly as good 20-22 as they would when they fully matured.
I expect the same for Kelenic. I think he’ll be ‘okay’ for about 2-3 years, then give Seattle 3-4 great years. But as a fan, I want more like 5 great years.
Jeter Downs never mastered AA but is now in AAA hitting .220 with a K rate like Dalbec and Chavis in the minors but no home run power displayed.
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I’d have liked to have seen Downs get more AA ABs. I don’t think we have any immediate plans for him at the pro level, I don’t trust the camp thing they did last year to be an indicator of their development, so I don’t see why he couldn’t gotten 100 ABs in AA before being promoted to AAA.
That said, some of this could be an eye test issue. IRT Chavis and Dalbec, I see them as completely different players, but with some similarities. I have low expectations for Chavis since his zone recognition is poor. Dalbec strikes out a lot, but doesn’t swing at a lot of bad pitches. IMVHO, if you consistently swing at pitches in the strike zone, you have a high floor.
JB – You seem to be trending the other way on Downs. 12 games at AA is enough? Against 2 of the 3 worst pitching staffs in the league. Hardly representative of AA competition. That’s why he’s overwhelmed at AAA.
Let him face the best AA pitchers and if he hits .250 or less he’s not ready to move up. I know many go by OBP but I have explained many times that OBP has two parts in that BA and Walks make up OBP. Walks are not a function of the hitter, they relate more to the opposing pitchers. The ability to take walks is a skill but it’s the less significant part of OBP and the Average is the more significant part. Saying he mastered a level isn’t hitting .250 or less nor is it playing in a dozen games and claiming victory to save face in your choice when you picked the wrong guy in a trade.
I think we are on the same page on this. Prove you can hit at a level then move up. I also agree guys with good eyes for hitting have higher floors. Guys with better hand eye coordination have the highest floor.
We’ve seen what ownership will do to prove they are right. They have the score keepers favor Devers and he still ends up with the most errors in the league. They favor the guys like Devers and Verdugo on balls that should not be hits to show the LA trade was a good one and that promoting Devers early was smart. If they want Downs to succeed they will do everything in their power to help him be considered a success to avoid more egg on their face from the Mookie deal. Duran is the better player but politics matter more than skill so I fully expect Downs to be up first to have the optics support how great the Mookie deal was. I don’t think they are fooling any fans but when they go to the media and preach things that the media must repeat to stay in their good graces you’ll hear things like Devers’ defense seems to be improving even if it isn’t. Downs will get the same preferential treatment that Devers got and Verdugo gets because they must justify their choice to move Mookie.
I wish both Chavis and Bobby D. would choke up about 1″ on their bats. It would improve their bat control in the strike zone. Both “wind-up” and swing at bad pitches far too often. Of course, J.D. has been doing the same lately. I don’t understand why.
KD17
JB – You seem to be trending the other way on Downs. 12 games at AA is enough?
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I’m not sure what you mean by that. I said “I’d have liked to have seen Downs get more AA ABs.”.
hawkny11
I wish both Chavis and Bobby D. would choke up about 1″ on their bats.
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I don’t object to choking up, and use to do so myself. But Chavis’ weakness, one of several, is low and outside. Choking up won’t help. He needs an entire season in AAA learning to go the other way with that pitch.
IRT Dalbec, his selection is a lot better than Chavis, and has much better plate coverage. he will always be inconsistent, but I have no objection at all to his pitch selection.
JB – I thought you were strongly against bringing them up too early and your quote of I’d have liked to have seen Downs get more AA ABs seemed a lot less certain than the other players you mentioned. Seemed a bit non-committal compared to your other statements. That’s all I was saying. I think it’s in everyone’s best interest to send him back down to AA and see if he can hit .300 during his second year at AA. If he can’t, that speaks volumes to his upside potential If he maintains his walk rate and brings his average up to .300 he’s a .375 or more OBP guy. That will play in the majors.
I don’t have strict standards about promotions. A lot depends on what I need, and whom I have. I want to give Dalbec a full season, no matter what happens. So I wouldn’t look at Casas no matter what. Add to that, we have a bit of a log jam at the 3B, 1B, and DH, so it is important to see what alignment we want.
In Downs’ case, there are ancillary moving parts to consider. For example, suppose Duran gets promoted and looks really good. That makes our OF an automatic Verdugo/Duran/Renfroe thru the end of 2022, which makes Kike our automatic 2B. In that case, I am not even looking at Downs until sometime in mid-2022.
In addition, I am certainly not sold on Arroyo, but imho, he has done just enough to warrant a longer look at 2B. And a longer look as our UIF in 2022 if Kike becomes our regular 2B.
IRT specifically to Downs, I don’t think he will be a .375 OBP guy. The league average is only .311, and only two of our regulars have a .375. Since he has some pop, I’d gladly take a .350 OBP with 15-20 HRs. But I still want to see a sustained K/W of 2/1 or less before I start thinking about him.
Remember 3 years ago when Juan Soto was called up from AA (skipped AAA) at 19. He’s been tearing it up ever since..
No one is in their prime at 20 years old. WTF you talking about
It’s not like the current players holding the spots have not performed. Don’t rush the AL champs off – you want Franco tied up thru his late 20’s unless he signs team deal giving up an affordable year on back end – no need to rush him up. Again current mlb team deserves to defend title.
I hope gm’s are reading this thread and learning from fans what they should do and how the game’s structure should be changed.
I get it. I teach History, I often ask students “am I right? Did you check google?” I mean, I am the professional, but as amateurs, they know way more than I. Because google.
Glad y’all found something to complain about. I am a Rays fan–prob the biggest on this board–and I desperately want Wander and Brujan brought up (I have made plenty of posts). But, ultimately, I realize these guys–the professionals, w a record of success–may just know more than I do.
Sideline Redwine – You have made an interesting assumption. How do you measure success? World Championships? Then I am as successful at being a GM as the Rays organization, past and present. Your assumption is faulty. It’s logical but clearly knowledge should only be concluded from success not simply having a title and the TB GM has no rings to prove his great success at this job.
You mock people who think they know more than GMs yet you turn around and claim you know more than those making the comments about the GMs? That sure seems like the pot calling the kettle black.
Do you realize you probably know as much about the skill levels of the many commenters as you do the front office of the Rays but you ASSUME they got their job because they deserved it. So, let me ask, if the GM in TB is good and making the right decisions why hasn’t any other team pouched him yet? The supposedly knowledgeable ones have always been pouched and the Red Sox have proven by pouching Bloom that belief is horse crap. Bloom isn’t more knowledgeable than most of the commenters on this site otherwise we’d still have Mookie, Price and not the 4th pick in the draft this year.
I think you’ve been incredibly hard on the commenters. I read their comments and find many of the suggestions far superior to Bloom’s actions. Granted, by your opinion, I don’t know as much about baseball as you do but I’m thinking that’s ok since you think people have jobs because they earned them not because they know the right people. That seems a bit naive to me!!
You’re 100% spot on. It’s even worse for the Red Sox fan that pays the highest ticket prices and has a player in Jarren Duran completely ready and better than 2/3 of our outfield and he’s not getting promoted due to Bloom trying to keep him inexpensive for one year! We are the Red Sox! We are worth 2 billion and we are worried about an extra year of arbitration? It’s Fkn insulting and should be addressed but Henry owns the Globe so they are doing the “he needs to learn the position better because he’s only played CF for three years”. BS! He won the MVP in the winter leagues. He hit .400 in the spring and no errors. The owners are making a mockery of this game and wait till the next bargaining agreement stuff starts.
Dude, the service time deadline has passed. He could promote him today without a penalty. What is holding him down is his strikeouts. he is on pace for 196 Ks in 600 ABs in AAA. That might translate to 240 Ks in the pros. In addition, he only has 46 AAA ABs.
Your rant is not only meaningless, since the service time deadline has passed, it is also wrong since Duran has to prove he can make better contact.
Joe Brady another spot on comment!!!!!
Steve obviously has not done his homework!!
I saw Duran in numerous “simcity games” from McCoy stadium last year on the internet (I believe they are still available). There was a months this spring available, and Duran is NOT very smooth in the outfielder. He could definitely used the time in AAA, and as you say the strikeouts are still a problem.
Compare Dalbec spring training to the season. Enough said. O some of you probably do not know Dalbec had 7 HRs in one month in ST. What a difference compared to the regular season!!!!!
Obviously this is a good old boy network and you all stroke each other. But the Service time deadline is 5yrs and 172 days. Since they didn’t start playing until May 4th and he’s not on the 26 Man roster he still would more time before a call up in order to have an extra year of team control. And do me a favor. Other than Renfro and at times Verdugo and Kikè we have nobody playing above average defense. I’ll defer to you all-knowing wanna be GM’s and feel how I feel. I think you guys should send your resumes in to MLB!
And you have judged him on his first 20 AB’s. Other people (including ex-GM Jim Bowden) have agreed with my take. But you guys all know wayyyy more than me.
Jarren Duran, CF, Boston Red Sox
Age: 24 B: L T: R
Height: 6-2 Weight: 212
Scouting Grades: HIT: 55 PWR: 45 RUN: 70 ARM: 45 FLD: 55
Statistics: Triple-A Worcester: Slash line: .283/.389/.609 Runs: 9 HR: 4 RBI: 7
The Red Sox’ corner outfield situation has been abysmal offensively with right fielder Hunter Renfroe hitting .225, left fielder Franchy Cordero at .167, and veterans Kiké Hernández and Marwin Gonzalez both under .240. Promoting Jarren Duran to play center field and moving Alex Verdugo to left field would make the Red Sox a much better team — offensively and defensively. Duran brings energy, enthusiasm and a much better hit tool than the Red Sox outfielders apart from Verdugo. Renfroe has impressed defensively in right field, and his power still plays despite the low batting average. Promoting Duran would provide a difference-making boost to the Red Sox in outfield range, team speed and overall offensive production. That said, don’t be surprised if Boston waits to make a move.
You’re a clown in a suit dude
Steve7seven
Obviously this is a good old boy network and you all stroke each other. But the Service time deadline is 5yrs and 172 days.
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Ignoring the first, really weird sentence, Duran needs a 172 days service time in order to qualify for one full year of service time. Today is 5/18/21. The season ends on 10/3/21. Unless my math is wrong, please explain how there are more than 138 days left before the end of the year?
Steve7seven
That said, don’t be surprised if Boston waits to make a move.
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Assuming that i am right about the service time, and I am more than willing to wait for you to prove me wrong, why would the RS wait? Are Bloom and the FO conspiring to lose?
Players are eligible for free agency after six full years of service time. A player with five years and 171 days of service time? His free agency gets delayed by a full year because he didn’t satisfy the 172-day cutoff in that sixth year. That is an has been my point. And I meant to say you all STOKE each other not stroke. Spell check issue. All I’m saying is the longer they keep Duran off the 40 the longer it takes to hit FA. Think Kris Bryant. And if I’m mistaken, and it has happened before, trust me ask my wife, then I apologize. This just reeks of a Tampa Bay move to help with salary cap issues down the road. EVERYONE has to agree that nobody has done it better then TB and OAk. I feel that with the money we spend as fans in Boston we should see the 100% best product they can roll out there. And despite all the digs at me from the gallery I believe, and I stress I, that we are a better offensive and defensive team with AV in LF, JD in center and Renfroe in right. Send Cordero down to get his AB’s in and work out his issues. Then make decisions. But a LH-RH platoon makes sense to me. Again ME. Or play the hot hitter.
I’m pretty sure you are mistaken, but it’s not like that’s never happened to me. That said, no one ever manipulates service time for guys like Duran. Duran is 24.255 year’s old. If they called him up today, he would be a free agent when he is 31 year’s old. It’s not worth manipulating.
And while Duran is intriguing, I’ve seen a gazillion players with gaudy AAA stats, accompanied by a lot of strikeouts, and they generally don’t pan out. Middlebrooks was that guy, Chavis was that guy, Cordero was that guy.
And, just like with Chavis, I am hoping for the best, but not holding out great hope. IMHO.
JB – Super 2 is the limiter at this point. It’s the only limiter besides being satisfied with the skills of the minor league player.
Steve7seven – Sorry I didn’t jump in earlier. Swarm tactics often happen and you just have to fight through it.
JoeBrady – No one rule works for everyone. No single approach is always the right answer. Once Duran, Houck and others have performed well enough at AAA to be promoted to the majors an accounting of players across baseball needs to be done to see if they are clearly not in the Super 2 category for 2024. There is NO reason not to promote all that are ready since this is a transition year and I believe that’s Steve7seven’s point.
Now granted, Bloom is still busy trying to salvage this year but it’s not happening. Please recognize that with a hotter than could be expected start the Red Sox ONLY have a 1/2 game lead on Toronto who has more talent. They have a 1 game lead over TB who has more talent. And they have a 1 and 1/2 game lead on the Yankees who have more talent. The start was fun but reality is here and the Red Sox are stair stepping down to Baltimore and possibly past them in the next 45 days when they play the hard part of their schedule.
So, on July 1, when Sale is back all the minor league players who have mastered the competition at AAA should be promoted and some of the filler utility players Bloom acquired needs to be shed. The second half of the year should be for developing chemistry with the new players, evaluating strengths and weaknesses of the minor league players battling major league talent and for making the necessary moves to have a much improved 2022. Those moves need to be trades and targeted free agents that will raise the level of SKILL on the ball club. The 2018 left overs are awesome but the rest of the roster is very shaky. The Red Sox lost their top skilled player and replaced him with a much weaker player. He’s above average and contributes but until he’s on base 260 times or more he’s nothing more than a Mookie wannabe. A player of comparable skill level with Mookie needs to be acquired in the off season or the Red Sox will continue to take tiny steps to being as good as they were in 2018.
I don’t think the Red Sox have a player comparable to Wander Franco in their minors so it is best to give the players time to master AAA pitching and that should happen by July 1. In the case of Downs, he needs to go back and master AA pitching. Then return to AAA when he has accomplished the goal not because he’s a player the organization has chosen to promote to the media like Devers. JB has one point right, players need to show success at a level before they should be moved.
For Tampa as always, it’s not about the player being ready, it’s always about how long they can keep him there!
They just traded their SS to Milwaukee. Maybe Franco will be an exception for TB. Also, lots of others have been brought up around the league so maybe they think he’s cleared the Super 2 category or they plan on making him an offer so he doesn’t leave when he’s a free agent. After watching how badly Boston screwed up with Mookie maybe they change their approach for once in a lifetime players.
Limit long term contracts and pay them earlier. Might even get the CBT eliminated too.
I’m for that but…..MLB and fans both love the free agent signing drama.
In a perfect world – players and owners could agree on percentage and every player gets paid what they are worth based on season prior performance. That would create the floor everyone cries for too. But it eliminates so much drama – no one would ever go for it
NBA does it. NFL doesn’t fully guarantee them. If the MLBPA wants to really move the needle it should be considered. Or they could actually invest in lobbying for the unionization of all professional players not just MLB’ers.
Sorry. I can’t agree fully. A few truly gifted players can seemlessly go to the top levels but most need experience dealing with better pitching. Being able to hit any fastball simply doesn’t cut it in the major leagues. Is Wander such a talent? No idea but waiting a month or two hardly seems like it’s an onerous amount of time
Marc topkin says the rays want to see how Franco deals with failure. What failure? 20 yr old opsing 1.000 in AAA. You can’t tell how he will deal with major league failure without him being in the bigs
He hasn’t yet, but he still might have some struggles. The Rays waiting another 4-6 weeks will give Franco around 40 games of AAA experience. If he hasn’t struggled, then you can start thinking it’s time for the next challenge.
That 1.000 OPS comes from 52 at bats in his first taste of Triple A pitching. And Brujan also has 1.000 ops in 50+ at bats. If anyone should be called up by your estimation then it should be Brujan over Franco. Especially since Brujan has roughly 1600+ at bats in the minors.
It also comes after 2 years of dominating the lower minors vs vastly older competition. Stop excusing this garbage. HE IS 20. He has a sub 10% k rate and almost more walks than strikeouts in AAA (as he has done throughout his minors career). AT 20. Don’t give me the small sample garbage. The point is he should be struggling in MLB not Durham, where he has literally nothing to prove
Remember when Mike Trout first came up? He failed. It happens. He went back down, learned some things, and today he is a pretty decent player.
Remember when Soto and Tatis came up and annihilated the majors? What is your point and why does it change the fact that Franco should be struggling vs MLB, not pretending like he’s “struggling” in AAA
Franchy Cordero could also be the odd man out in Boston. At least Chavis has done some things since being called up
Danny Santana will replace Franchy. The main reason the Sox traded for him was that he has options left.
Chavis still hasn’t learned to lay off the high fastball.
Chavis hasn’t done anything, either. No one survives a 12/0 K/W in 27 PAs. Both him and Cordero should be in AAA for the remainder of the year.
He’s a first-round pick slugging .480. They aren’t going to give up on him that quick.
Why recall an elite guy like Franco when you have a SS hitting .198 with a 35.8% K%?
Willy Adames is 25 years old and has been a top 10 SS since he’s entered the league. While I’m as excited for Franco as the next guy, you don’t throw away a 25 year old top 10 SS, even if he did have a rough first month of the season. Plus he might be getting over his early season struggles. Over the past 2 weeks, Adames has a .278/.350/.583 slash and 163 wRC+.
That’s right! The rays should just trade Franco to the Tigers…..
When was Willy Adames a top 10 SS? Correa, Seager, Bogaerts, Story, Lindor, Turner, Semien, Tatis, Bichette, Anderson, Baez, and Dejong are all above Adames since his call up. Even if you remove Tatis and Bichette, Adames is at best #11 since 2018 when he came up (note that Simmons had a 5 WAR year in 2018 and isn’t on that list).
He’s a nice 2-3 WAR player but not a top 10 SS. A normal team just makes him a semi-regular utility player but he probably has more value as a trade piece for a team like Tampa and there’s no need to let a guy like Adames block either of Franco or Brujan.
Hope you’re responding to the guy calling Willy Adames a top 10 SS here.
Definitely lots of problems with service time dictating when players are called up…but I think it’s ok for Wander to spend a little more time in AAA. He didnt get any time last year. Though I would like to see him get called up later this year if he keeps hitting (and that works for the Rays’ front office too)
This move has absolutely nothing to do with service time and everything to do with a cost conscious team being careful with the first number one overall prospect they’ve had in a long time. Send a middle schooler right to college ?? Just stupid thinking by these morons up above, the Rays don’t care if it helps MLB “market”. The kid was in single A back in 2019 and took all of last year off… no team in the right mind send him right to the show…. confidence is a thing for every human on earth and every person who has more confidence performs better and that’s a fact. Yeah he’s tearing up triple A right now but more then likely they’ll adjust and he’ll go through a period of struggle and he needs to adjust back and learn what they’re trying to do. This is the case of senseless baseball “fans” having no idea what they’re talking about
It all depends on when they actually bring him up to determine how much of a role service time is playing.
If the incentives were different, prospects would be pushed to the majors faster. For example, if every player became an FA at 28 no matter when they come up then it makes more sense to attempt to push guys through the system faster.
The Rays have the ‘luxury’ of slow rolling Franco and making absolutely sure he’s ready because of the way service time works today.
Confidence definitely plays a role, but the average baseball fan also has little insight into a prospect’s confidence and resilience. There are guys who can go out and struggle every day for a month and it won’t phase them. Most top professional athletes are on another plane of confidence and resilience that the ‘average fan’ can’t really relate to.
kc38, lots of mouth-breathers on here. Franco will be up when all parties are ready for his reign.
GO RAYS!!!
Nationals called up Juan Soto from AA (skipped AAA) in May 2018 when he was only 19. It’s time Marc Topkin
That’s a sample size of about 1, right? And for each one you find, I can find 5 that didn’t succeed at all, and another 5 who under-performed what their level of play would be five years later.
JB – I understand your argument but Juan Soto was a monster at 19 like Vlad, like Acuna, like Harper. Those guys were all exceptional not just good or above average. They all succeeded and Wander Franco may be as good or better than all of them. He should be the ONE guy who should be promoted early because he’s just that exceptional. People knew Harper was ‘different’ when he graduated early to play at a JUCO to make the draft a year earlier. Heck, Scott Boras aligned himself with him by his sophomore year in High School. Some guys are simply destined to be great. Wander Franco, is that guy too. Watch him one time and you can see he’s not like the others.
Soto didn’t seem as special as Franco but proved he was by his incredible consistency. Franco, I believe most resembles Acuna but to me, I think he’s going to end up better than Acuna and he’s a Shortstop!! He looks to be better than Tatis at Shortstop and he should put up better numbers than Bogaerts. That’s how good Franco is. He needs to be in the majors as soon as possible and he’s not going to hurt TB’s chances of winning the division or going to the World Series. He’s going to help their chances. They need to get the extra year of control so he should come up for about a month but when it’s clear he won’t be a Super 2, he needs to be in the majors.
You are right that many fail but the true superstar level guys don’t. Franco is the next superstar of the sport.
FYI – Willie Adames was just traded to Milwaukee. That opens the door for the Wander Franco promotion.