3:10pm: The league actually did not further inspect Santiago’s glove, ESPN’s Jesse Rogers reports (Twitter link). The ejection and suspension are based solely on the umpire’s discretion. That’s a rather surprising development and one that, speculatively speaking, could prompt some union pushback.
2:20pm: Major League Baseball announced Tuesday that Mariners lefty Hector Santiago has been suspended 10 games and been fined an undisclosed amount for possessing a foreign substance on his glove in the fifth inning of Sunday’s game against the White Sox. Santiago is appealing the decision.
Mariners manager Scott Servais said after the game that umpire Phil Cuzzi was mistaken and that there was no illegal substance on Santiago’s glove — only rosin (which is permissible under MLB rules) and sweat. The league, after conducting an analysis of Santiago’s glove, clearly does not agree and has elected to punish the veteran lefty. Santiago’s suspension will be held in abeyance until the appeal process is complete. As ESPN’s Jeff Passan tweets, Santiago’s case will now be heard by an arbiter who works for Major League Baseball, which all but eliminates the possibility of the suspension being overturned. It could potentially be reduced, Passan suggests.
The 33-year-old Santiago has been quite effective with the Mariners thus far in 2021 after not pitching in the big leagues last season. He’s worked to a 2.65 ERA with a 23-to-7 K/BB ratio in 17 innings of work. This year’s 32.4 percent strikeout rate is easily a career-high, which will raise some eyebrows in light of the suspension, but it should be noted that Santiago hasn’t seen any appreciable uptick in spin rate this year. The spin on his four-seam fastball, in fact, has dropped from its previous levels, while the spin on his slider is right in line with his career marks.
Under the league’s new enforcement policy for foreign substances, the Mariners won’t be able to replace Santiago on the roster if his suspension is indeed upheld. They’ll have to play a man down while he serves his punishment.
And still no Astro players for Trashgate.
Move on…
Hard to move on from that my friend. Just shows how bad the commish is.
Fair or not, the punishment was doled out a long time ago, and things aren’t going to change.
Actually it just shows how bad the ownership is. The commissioner works for them, not himself.
I’m with you, @gbs42.
I just don’t need to hold on to anything that pissed me off. & I certainly don’t need to collect any more reasons to dislike baseball.
Bad enough watching my Yanks super struggle. Just don’t need to get bent out of shape over stuff from years ago.
Ducky – I can relate to a favorite team’s current struggles. The Cardinals couldn’t punch their way out of a soggy paper bag these days.
Ducky and GBS, very few people know more about disappointment and rooting for a mediocre team than people from Houston. After all, I’m a Cult of Jack Easterby (the Texans) fan.
Was talking about this with, @brodiebruce another Cards fan on the board. Our squads are zombie teams: hard to kill.
I would be really surprised if the Cardinals & Yankees are *not* playing games that matter in September. Our teams refuse to tank/rebuild.
That’s called resilience.
Hey, @goastros123.
What’s good, bro?
Tell ya. The most downtrodden fans I have ever seen are from Minnesota where I now live. Not without reason, uh?
@coolstorybro – coolpostbro
Checks phone lines—every Pirates fan calling in to vent
It’s really not hard to move on from it and bringing it up every time anyone talks about this rule certainly isn’t going to change it.
Talk about the suspension which based on the update is absurd. How can a billion dollar league not have a lab in place to analyze the glove? His account is public record even if not under oath. Unless he said everything knowing there would not be analysis, he can’t change his tune now. This is one time I’m for the player. No testing? How can they enforce a suspension? What training do the umps have to differentiate between sweat and rosin and something else?
@coolstorybro, Dude, this about the 4th time I’ve seen the same post………time to investigate a new approach.
Not obvious to you he’s a troll?
Don’t forget the oilers! Nobody could break your heart like the oilers
Saw Kim pitch Jun. 25. Rotten luck, rotten D = really poor outcome. He didn’t deserve that fate.
The Bills are on line 2, they will hold until you pick up.
White Sox should be awarded a victory for that game!!
No. If people want to continue to be upset about it, so be it. They have every right.
Oh, gotcha, vtncsc has decreed it, so it must be so.
Ya know, I see what @vtncsc is getting at.
For example, I still speak with my ex-wives on occasion. & I’m typically always happy to see them. But some fellas seem to function better holding on to the bitterness of a divorce.
Not my flavor. But to each their own, man.
MLB can’t prove any specific Astros players benefitted from the trash can bashing. No penalty would stand up to appeal.
Can MLB prove what foreign substance Santiago had on his glove? If not, this penalty should not stand up to appeal.
they probably do have that ability and either way it’s not the same thing.
Unfortunately this is not a court of law Steve. Different standard of proof. There MAY be a forensic analysis of the substance but there will be no jury of his peers.
Oh I know, and that is why they can get away with it. But what is and what ought are two very different things. We ought to have a justifiable suspension process, but we clearly don’t.
An MLB guy is in charge of ruling on the appeal.
Steve – we *might* have a justifiable suspension process, but we’re not privy to the details.
@Steve You’re typically cynical at this stuff. There is no way his appeal has a leg to stand on being it the first suspension handed down. Arbiter panels are easy to replace.
It was Cool Ranch Dorita seasoning. You can’t get that off easily.
Put the Garbage Can in the HOF!
50% + of the league would be suspended if you weren’t in denial in regards to teams/players using technology to steal signs. Yes, the astros used a camera and were caught because of a snitch player. No other team had a snitch that’s why no one knows about other teams.
probably more than 50%. All competitive teams were doing it (heck, even the mediocre-at-best Rox were called out)
Mike Fiers is a hero.
he’s the Peter Strzok of mlb total hero fine man of sterling character
To be fair, the Yanks and Sox were caught doing the same thing and they receive an even lighter suspension. Who cares about integrity at this point–it’s just Manfred 🙂
It would be nice to know what they determined the foreign substance was. I’m all for cracking down on cheating.
Rosin
You can’t punish people you promise immunity to for talking. The commissioner’s office in all their “wisdom” decided that learning what happened and punishing management was worth not punishing players. It was similar to what happened with the Mitchell Report. The Selig/Manfred reasoning is that no one would talk if they could be punished, and that learning the truth was worth it. History will decide. Given what most fans think of Selig of Manfred, perhaps, it already has.
No one believes that, do they? The league knew it’d have a huge PITA suspending players because of the union, so they took the easier route that let them somewhat save face.
Get over it
None of the Astros will get punished because of the union also I’m sure the gm and Coach made some deal
What he do?
Are you looking for a TL;DR summary? Maybe read the post.
I did. It doesn’t say what he had
I’m sure the specific foreign substance will be revealed as part of the appeal process, or leaked to a reporter.
A 10 game suspension without identifying the substance??? Just when you think Manfred couldn’t look any worse, he does!!! Why did they collect the glove if they were not going to identify the substance??? You cannot identify a substance just by looking at it or touching it.
all in the suit that you wear………….
Both Servais and Santiago stated it was rosin. Rule 6.02(d) states “Neither the pitcher nor any other player shall dust the ball with the rosin bag; neither shall the pitcher nor any other player be permitted to apply rosin from the bag to his glove or dust any part of his uniform with the rosin bag.””
I would think that a manager and player would know the rules, especially an established rule like 6.02(d)
Cat: That rule seems unnecessary. If rosin is allowed to be on the ball, it doesn’t really matter how it gets on the ball – from the pitcher’s hand, glove or uniform. If there is suspicion of an illegal substance on the glove or uniform that is being mixed with rosin, then confiscate the glove, uniform and/or ball and test for an illegal substance….which is what MLB should have done with Santiago. If there is a limit to how much rosin can be on a baseball, then test balls for that too. MLB certainly has the money to conduct testing.
all in the suit that you wear…..You seem to be ignoring some points, intentionally or otherwise. Any substance on a glove including rosin is illegal.. Rosin is not be applied direstly to a ball either. It’s for the pitchers hand only. Yes, some rosin will transfer to the ball but, when used under the long established rules it will be minute.
You may deem the rule unnecessary but it is a rule, and a long standing one, nonetheless.
Pitchers brought this upon themselves by going to the extreme. Manfred alluded to that himself when he said…..“I understand there’s a history of foreign substances being used on the ball, but what we are seeing today is objectively far different, with much tackier substances being used more frequently than ever before. It has become clear that the use of foreign substance has generally morphed from trying to get a better grip on the ball into something else — an unfair competitive advantage that is creating a lack of action and an uneven playing field.”
It’s not hard to understand what Manfred means. If pitchers had stuck to dabs of rosin/sunscreen or even tactfully applied pine tar this would not have happened. Instead they had to go to the extreme and all but wave it in everyone’s face.
Pitchers put rosin on their hand and on their arm for further application onto the hand. It could very well accumulate in the glove if sweat rolled down the arm and brought it there. Watch zack Greinke put rosin on his head so he can go to his head instead of picking up the bag all the time. I understand the way the rule was written but 1 maybe they could amend it and 2 this suspension needs more clarity
Cat: What did I ignore? I am starting my opinion about that rule. So…you agree rosin is allowed to be on a baseball when pitched. I am saying it does not matter how rosin gets on a baseball if there is only rosin on the baseball and that the rule is therefore unnecessary. Why would it matter where the rosin came from? If I am to believe that rule is necessary I need to know why it is important where the rosin came from. “It is the rule” is not convincing. If you are saying that rosin is only allowed in minute quantities on a baseball, where is that written?
Considering Santiago and Servais both were claiming the only thing on his glove was rosin and sweat, I hope MLB says what was found on/in the glove. Would make it even more murky if they do not disclose what substance was found.
They must be able to identify a foreign substance to claim it was a foreign substance. If no substance gets announced, you can guarantee Santiago is nothing more than a martyr for a joke of a commissioners office.
I agree there needs to be transparency. I was disappointed to see that the substance wasnt announced. “Santiago’s case will now be heard by an arbiter who works for Major League Baseball” That leads me to believe it might never be.
Android Dawesome……… An arbitration panel consists of 3 people. One MLB rep, one union rep and the arbitrator who is hired by both the union and MLB. Each has the power to fire an arbitrator at any time for any or no reason. The independent arbitrator is just that….independent.
Haha. That is exactly what Santiago is and we both know it.
they identified it wasnt rosin. end of story.
No not end of story. You work for Manfred???
They didn’t identify anything. I am really dumfounded you are cool with them effectively convicting a guy (in baseball court) without any evidence presented to the public. Have you ever read Kafka? How do you call yourself an American?
because it isnt a freakin’ court and we have no reason to believe that the league office has one in for Hector freakin’ Santiago. You want the PED test results as well to prove them? its the same thing. in fact, scratch that, this is.much less of a thing than that and yet you arent acting like that.
They do release what PED a guy uses when they bust him. Are you being stupid on purpose? It legitimately feels like ableism arguing with you.
honestly, i would explain, but after you just insinuated that I have a disability, i dont evem think its worth it.
Yet you felt it was worth it to reply with no argument at all which tells me you have no argument.
You are being a fool accusing him of being a troll while trolling this topic yourself.
Anyone who doesn’t want to know what substance he used is being intentionally obtuse. It’s intentional. No sane person defends prosecution with no evidence.
actually Joel, you were the one I was saying was a troll.
Well you were actually trolling him. I don’t care about you dude. Don’t be a troll we won’t argue like this. You showed up like a fool today defending who knows what.
Anyone who works for Manfred is illegitimate to the MLB
coolstorybro
@darkside you’re putting a lot of faith in a man and system that has proven its incompetence over and over
coolstorybro
@coolstorybro, Stop dude, it’s obnoxious
A joke? But Manfred shortened games by 12 minutes. And he gives out the most fair punishments for the most serious rule breakers. He revolutionized the game… lol
I wish MLB would also test the baseballs and go public with the substances found on them, both before the old protocol and for any suspensions under it. If the complaint was that pitchers were loading up the balls with so much goop that they were whistling on the way to the plate and sticking the the catchers’ hands, they surely would have the evidence from multitudes of balls thrown out of play for touching the dirt or grass, and, with the careful barcode ID system, know exactly who threw it.
doesn’t matter what it was. what matters is that nothing can be on glove hand
Guess it wasn’t just rosin, Hector…
If Jerry Dipoto were smart, he’d DFA Santiago right now while he’s appealing the suspension to get him off the active roster. That way, once the suspension is upheld, Santiago would have to serve it when he comes back… which should be never, and the M’s won’t have to play a man down. Gotta game the system, Jerry!
Wrong. Mariners would have to play a man down whether Santiago is on the roster or not. MLB is dumb, but not THAT dumb.
33yr old journeyman K’ing nearly 1/3 of batters. Keep the crackdowns coming, MLB.
and make the games last 5-6 hours? then manfraud will come out 6 inning games.
At least we know who the dumbest pitcher in baseball is
Lame response by baseball and lame responses from fans on here. I don’t believe for a second this guy cheated. Not for one second.
Why on Earth would you doubt it?
Because no substances has been revealed. If it was a foreign substance, they need to be able to identify what it is. Otherwise, the process is nothing more than a witch hunt.
Yeah how about the fact that they announced a suspension yet didn’t announce the substance used. That is screaming at the top of its lungs there is something funny going on here. Why the heck wouldn’t you announce the substance?????
You’re exactly right Steve. This is going to turn into a s*** show quick
bold of you to agree with a known troll…
So it’s not a witch hunt.? Yeah Steve is such a troll for saying that MLB is doing a witchhunt. It’s ok Darkside. I’ve read enough of your comments here though to know you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about
You have no proof at all to support your accusation yet you’re the correct one and I’ll deluded. if this should be a court of law as Steve says, who’s got the proof that the MLB did a hit on Santiago?
Burden of proof is on those making the accusation. Burden of proof is never for those claiming innocence (ie innocent until proven guilty). If the MLB is saying Hector used a foreign substance, they have to prove he used one. Not say he used one and then demand Hector prove his innocence.
Seriously dude, stop posting your Ls
The proof is the substance used. The proof is what MLB is intentionally hiding. Suspending him 10 games over this is a total joke and it won’t hold up in any way. If there is proof Santiago cheated MLB needs to announce it. This isn’t how America works…
*I’m not I’ll
You’re a complete troll. Simple as that. Like MLB, I will decline to explain further. It’s a judgment call
Again, I’m a troll because I’m not pushing conspiracy theories. listen to how crazy that sounds.
They didn’t even examine the glove, dude…
Ok darkside. I’m done. If I want to hear more from an ass ill look behind me and fart
[Hectors Mom has entered the chat]
‘I don’t believe for a second this guy cheated.’
I get being annoyed at the lack of transparency here, but to completely disbelieve that this guy was cheating is crazy. Skepticism, sure. But almost every player is looking for the upper hand here. Baseball has a long, rich history of players cheating. Even after major crackdowns in PED usage, players still get pinched constantly (like today, when a Giants prospect picked up an 80 game suspension).
If you ‘don’t believe for a second’ that this guy, a journeyman pitcher who has not been good for nearly five years, can suddenly mow down hitters at 12.2k/9, I don’t think you know baseball history. Maybe he’s truly innocent, but come on. There’s definitely a chance this guy was using foreign substances. You think baseball would randomly select someone to punish, angering the player’s union along the way? Madness.
I always get amazed at how angry and bitter some people get at “cheaters”. Teams and players have been trying to find advantages and loopholes for years. Every, single, team. Whether it is steroids, or sticky stuff, or trash cans, or videos, it’s always going to happen. Not saying I agree with it, but just because your team or player hasn’t been busted doesn’t make them innocent either. I’m a cubs fan and I have no doubt they’ve found loopholes over the years and have cheated, even outside of the obvious Sosa steroids and corked bat. I get the mlb punishing when teams/players get busted, but for every fan, commentator, and other teams and players to act so shocked is so dumb.
Side note I also think it’s time to elect the steroid era players into the hof. One the mlb loved it and knew it was going on but let it slide because of money. Two the stats are a stat, add an asterisk do what you need to do, but let them in. Thirdly, I’m would bet money that Pudge, Piazza, and bag well all did steroids and they are in already with Big Papi likely in the future.
So let Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, Manny, and Palmeiro in the hof already.
Because fans want to watch the best players that day win. Not watch the team with the best chemists win. It kind of takes a sport and turns it into an exhibiition. Your mileage may vary.
How about the teams with the most money and the best mathematicians? Hardly anyone seems to have any problem with that.
MLB, like most institutions, doesn’t care much about hardcore fans. They want to attract casual viewers and attendees who just as soon watch whatever is the hot new show to binge or spend their money on a restaurant or nightclub. We don’t matter. We’ll be there whether they let a bunch of juiced up guys (or guys hitting juiced up balls) hit 30 percent more home runs or not.
I don’t know what is meant by “casual viewers” exactly but surely they aren’t the ones who are buying season tickets. I also can’t agree with the hardcore fan thing. Listening to the broadcasters the teams and networks hire these days, I can’t see how they are interested in anything but the hardcore. It’s now nonstop lingo, analysis, unexplained stats, and jock talk, and virtually no actual play-by-play or explanation. A “casual” fan or someone new to the game would have no idea what they are talking about most of the time.
Dude this guy didn’t even TRY to cheat. Great story but you are missing the point completely.
coolstorybro
For the same reason that nobody likes a line cutter.
Transparency is needed in these cases.
I know people are going to say “Well Cole and Bauer are ovbisously never going to get caught because they’re popular/on poular teams”, but think about it. What incentive does Cole have to cheat? Unless somehow the CBA turns contracts into non-guarenteed contracts, Cole will be paid at least $30 million every year until 2028. Bauer won’t turn down his $45 million option for 2022. In essence, Cole and Bauer have nothing to gain at this point from cheating.
As long as there is another contract to play for there is reason to cheat.
While they both have security, they’re still ultra- competitors at the end of the day and want to be the best. It’s part of their psyche which is a big reason they have what have. If everyone else is using substances with no repercussions, why not.
Maybe it was ricin?
So it’s basically a judgment thing with no transparency? This s*** show is going to go great
The league didn’t conduct an analysis of the glove, though. They went off the word of the umpires and left it at that. They won’t identify the foreign substance because they won’t test it. What a cluster.
That makes no sense whatsoever. None at all.
Only way it makes sense is if Manfred’s whole tenure is a performance piece to see how crappy a commissioner he can be.
Meh, that’s akin to mlb sending spit balls to a lab to prove spit was used on the ball.
According to Jesse Rogers and his sources,
“Per source, the league didn’t need to inspect Santiago’s glove any further. The ejection and discipline are based on the umpires’ report of having detected a foreign substance.”
coolstorybro
How is anyone okay with that? Umpires are now judge, jury, and executioner? Do you really want Angel Hernandez in charge of who gets suspended y’all?
The fact that Angel still has a job is beyond idiotic. Hard to wrap my head around it. The Mariners had his crew for two series in a row last month. Its excruciatingly hard to watch when hes behind the plate. The guy can’t even get the calls at 1st base right. Angel, Joe West and CB Buckner. If they had regular jobs and performed as they do, they would have all been canned years ago
CB Buckner… sigh
Sodo I mentioned the same 3 in a post below and hadn’t read your post. I haven’t noticed umps being at the same place for 2 series until that clown. No way anyone should have Angel behind the plate twice in a week.
The reason he is still in MLB is the lawsuit. The league is waiting for him to retire. Same with others. They had let some umps run uncontrolled for so long the strike got rid of a bunch. Why don’t they have a fitness test for these guys? I know they eat restaurant food mostly but it isn’t Denny’s they can eat healthy. They also have access to a gym at the hotel or ballpark. The new guys are better at least in shape. They have a great way to monitor umps give them a grade each game. At end of year if below a certain level you are gone. The union would never go for it though.
I totally forgot about the lawsuit. But I don’t even know why there’s a case. All you have to do is show him game tape of all his horrendous calls and there’s your proof for why he’s not working the WS
He had worked playoff games up to a AL champ game. WS is a high privilege just like in any sport. There are officials just like players who can work a whole career and not make the WS. Angel is a joke out there but the league has to handle him with kid gloves. He was a crew chief a couple years ago but I believe it was one year. I forgot who his crew chief is this year but he has CB in his crew. I am thinking West but not sure. What a clown car show that is if true.
Also these guys are together for a whole season. They get a week plus AS week off. How would you like to spend a whole season being the 4th in that crew? I would fake a season ending injury to get out of it. Lol
Best post (and most accurate) I have seen on this site.
Total joke
If the league was truly worried about FIXING THE PROBLEM they would announce exactly what he did wrong. But to announce a suspension without saying what he actually used is insanely lame. Pretty sure it’s illegal too. Because how can others learn from Santuagos mistake when nobody knows what it was??????
he used an illegal substance, that’s what he did wrong. as long as it’s not rosin it’s banned so it doesnt matter.
The thing is Santiago’s explanation— and the only public explanation we have— is that it *was* rosin. MLB needs an explanation because it does matter.
He used a sticky foreign substance. Who cares what substance? We might WANT to know, but it doesn’t matter. There’s nothing for other players to learn here. They know the rules. Break them and risk getting caught or don’t and risk finding out how good your stuff is without help. I don’t care either way, it just needs to be policed in a uniform manner.
I don’t think he did it. I don’t believe he did anything wrong. And if MLB was so sure he did they would announce what he used. This story isn’t over baseballs poor handling of this has assured us that will be the case. Wait and see.
Its valid to claim innocence until proven guilty, but how can you just outright say you think the first guy that gets caught is guilty?
Because they are INTENTIONALLY hiding the evidence. Again if MLB wants to clean up the game other players deserve to know what he used so they know what not to do. Especially since it’s a new rule instituted in the middle of the freaking season. Instead they announce the suspension in a buried headline on their website and don’t announce what he did wrong. That’s NOT HOW IT WORKS!!!!
*not guilty
This commissioner is bad news!
This has been a known fact for years now.. Manfred makes Selig look like he was the greatest commissioner in sports (which is like being the best turd in a pile of turds)
roboump could have wheeled out there and done immediate spectroscopic analysis of substance, then tasered Santiago to the ground and carted him off to mlb prison
coolstorybro
first
You might have responded from the wrong handle.
Don’t feed the troll
the absolute idiocy of “the league wolnt tell us what the substance is so they must be lying” is absurd. why does the name of the substance matter? why so quick to assume Hector was a fall guy? and most importantly, why does knowing what it is matter to us, and why should the league care that it does? shocker, always critics of the league office, even for making the right choice.
Why didn’t they announce what he used????
Think dude. Crime and punishment works because you can learn from others mistakes. And our justice system works because you are innocent until proven guilty. These are basic concepts of American values not complicating.
its freakin baseball man. this isnt a court of law. and personally, its better than the NFL where a guy gets his name cleared and still gets suspended.
Because identifying the substance assures that there was a substance. Without identifying it, it allows for them to criminalize him without evidence. There is really no advantage to knowing the substance and not identifying it unless you don’t have any evidence for the suspension.
Exactly. If the league was sure he cheated and truly wanted to fix the problem they would announce what was used. The fact is the league isn’t sure he cheated. I know that today.
again, why would the league be so eager to get Hector Santiago of all people? Just because they arent naming it doesn’t mean they are hiding it out of intent. maybe they didn’t think they would get this absurd of a response, or maybe they really just didnt care.
They don’t care about Hector Santiago. That’s the point. They are suspending him to look like they are doing something about an issue they have no interest in actually fixing to appease dumb fans. Good job outing yourself as one for everyone to see.
Exactly Steve. The fact that Santiago is a no name journeyman is perfect. And his Mexican heritage probably doesn’t hurt either but we don’t need to get into that. This is a JOKE!!! Honestly more people would be angry at this if they actually cared about baseball anymore. This is how you lose credibility as a sport. This right here.
It’s funny that for thinking the Astros punishment was all that could and should have been done I was wrong, yet I’m also wrong about the fact that there should even be punishments for breaking rules that have been around for 100 years. wow, just wow.
Don’t need to get into that…yet you brought it up. Great way to lose any credibility.
What probably happened is the umpire kicked Santiago out suspecting cheating
Turns out Santiago didn’t but the MLB needs this policy to work so they’ll continue with the suspension.
Reason they didn’t name a substance is if they named a substance they’d be legally liable for defamation if proven they lied.
^this^
coolstorybro
I think they’re still backlogged testing Gaylord Perry spitballs to make sure there was spit on them.
If it’s indeed true that they didn’t test it and just went based on what the umps said, will you change your stance on this?
Yeah who could possibly defend the way MLB has handled this situation? Who???? They are suspending him 10 games for using a substance that NOBODY can identify.
I said this a few weeks ago. They are putting this on the umps who have the least skin in the game and care about this issue less than anyone involved. Shoot in 10 years we may not even have umpires!!! But you create this rule in the middle of the season ask the umps to enforce it and then leave it at that?
THIS IS A JOKE!!!!
No matter what the story there will always be questions. Many saw the joke of the bagging of the glove. It looked like a used bag what was in it? Was what was in the bag the foreign substance? Was it added after? There are so many others. These are all valid questions especially after the crap Seattle went through with the most corrupt commissioner in all of sports. Stern and his buddy Bennett gave us plenty of reason to question any commissioner.
In the long run this means little he was not part of long term plans. The league could have done us a favor though and stuck this on Montero. Nobody would be sad to not see him for 2 days.
Dude the league could have planted evidence that would be better than what they did. They suspended him and then said AFTER THE FACT they don’t actually have any evidence or at least didn’t check it. How does that make any sense?
Montero needed to be gone months ago
They just cleared this up on MLB. Any foreign substance on or in a glove is illegal and the ump has final say. If ejected he is suspended. Not sure why that tidbit of info wasn’t released before.
I am not upset about this except the vagueness of it all. Not sure how much the players knew I am sure more than we did. Still it would have been easy to release a 3 sentence blurb on this.
It is still a coin flip how they rule this. Like I said I watched another game after Seattle and the guy was bouncing the rosin bag on glove hand very close to his glove. Not sure how he didn’t get rosin in his glove. I believe most umpires do a good job but now you give some guys that have a god like personality even more power. Who doesn’t think Angel CB West etc are not going to do this at a pivotal point in the game?
mlb.com/news/mlb-announces-new-guidance-to-deter-u…
From the MLB public release….”Under the new guidelines, any pitcher who possesses or applies foreign substances in violation of the rules will be ejected from the game and automatically suspended in accordance with the rules and past precedent.” and “A player who possesses or applies foreign substances in violation of the playing rules will be immediately ejected from the game and suspended. The umpiring crew shall be the sole judge as to whether the rules have been violated.”
Making a statement that could have been released months ago when the new changes were made is stupid lazy or flying by the seat of your pants. This whole thing could have been prevented if some of this stuff was made known.
As for the guys claiming they knew this rule I am calling BS on most of them. I officiated basketball baseball and football for HS I also did semipro football I have read many rules books. I read all 3 HS sports books before the season.
Rule 6.02 d is the 6th rule under pitching no telling how many rules 1-5 had .02 is a subsection of rule 6 still no telling how many .01 had d is the fourth rule in that subsection. That is a deep dive into a mind numbing boring book. I forced myself to read the much smaller HS book because you learned stuff each time and I wanted to get better. Still don’t believe many would deep dive in it just for fun.
“Making a statement that could have been released months ago when the new changes were made is stupid lazy or flying by the seat of your pants. This whole thing could have been prevented if some of this stuff was made known.” That MLB Statement was released on June 15th to the public and even earlier to the players, teams and ump. It was not a “seat of your pants” move by any means, whether you think so or not..
By your statement you seems to believe that players and managers need not know the rules. What an sophomoric take. If pitchers and managers etc don’t know what is legal and illegal regarding substances then that is on them for being stupid. No amount of mumbo-jumbo from you will change that..
I never said players or coaches didn’t need to know the rules. I said guys like you that copied and pasted them after the fact. I highly doubt you knew that rule before hand unless you played or officiated at a college level at least in baseball. I doubt you picked up a MLB rule book and read it. One because you couldn’t even comprehend what I said. You might also be surprised how many coaches don’t have a grasp on all the rules and players are worse. In regards to rules the best teacher is when you kicked a call. It happens in every sport at all levels. If you are going to make a statement calling someone sophomoric make sure you are correct because if not you look moronic. You also didn’t deny you didn’t know the rule beforehand. You are like the guys who sat in the back and made snarky remarks about the mistakes a guy made after you had a week to go read the rule. An expert after the fact is the one spouting mumbo jumbo.
And Montero comes into tonight game and that was my cue to go to the grocery store since the game is over and I come back and he’s giving up a three run bomb. It’s that clear at this point that he should not be here anymore
Go to mlbs website. They are trying to bury this story. It’s so lame I can’t stand it. They created this issue and are handling it like complete fools. This is a joke. I watch old wwf wrestling there is more integrity in that than there is in current baseball. It’s a joke.
Manfred got his scapegoat
And now they announce they didn’t actually inspect the glove. Now how on earth does this all add up????? These are well paid people making these decisions. Well paid. What a freaking joke.
Something tells me the players association is going to get in on this. No way that it’s gonna stand with the players and the union that they’re not going to announce what anybody uses when ejected and then suspended for a “foreign substance”. What legitimate place of work suspends someone without explaining the reasoning in detail as they would in write up? MLB apparently
SodoMojo90…….. Do you believe the players should be aware of the rules? Just a simple question….yes or no?
Pitchers hide the sticky stuff in your ass the umps ain’t checking your ass!
The old prison wallet
having nothing to do with this story or my feelz about the issue, but it strikes me as obvious that superstick would MORE OFTEN go far astray of the pitcher’s intended location, as opposed to no stick whatsoever, because it might not disadhere to pitcher’s hand until split second or two after normal release point – hence, perhaps, MORE HBP.
Right?
No. An MLB ball is slippery therefor more chances to leave the hand early without the stick. They’re not using something sticky enough that the ball is going to stick to it. It’s enough stick to provide grip. I remember first batting practice ball I caught and couldn’t believe how slick it was. Balls used in games are even more slick
“The evidence arrive?”
“Yeah”
“Alright, don’t look at it… just file it”
I think MLB needed to “catch” someone. Might has well be Hector.
He has played 10 years for six different teams. He must have really greased it up in 2016 being a league leader in walks. The umpires should have confiscated the baseball too. Will America ever find out what that foreign substance was?
Why confiscate the glove if you’re not even going to have someone check it to verify that the substance was actually illegal?
Show
Baseball today is an absolute joke. If you care about baseball you should be concerned. If you make a living from baseball like the people who run this site you should be concerned. The only reason people aren’t more outraged by this is because they simply don’t care. And that is why you should be concerned.
I’ve been concerned for years
Cards need to get the draft picks back from Astro’s. The punishment of having to hire former hitting coach Alberts was punishment enough
I’ve seen a lot of strange things in my 84 years, but this year’s MLB developments are the strangest.
I don’t know where to start. Pick’em, I guess.
I don’t like the Astros, mostly because they are so dang good, but they are staying clean somehow.
Is that right?
Oh, I’m mostly a Mariners fan because of proximity to Oregon, but just MLB all-in-all.
this is all about reducing pitcher salaries!
Dog and pony show.
Scripted reality television.
Ok I just read the story on ESPN. It says the issue is he had rosin on his glove hand. Now I dont understand that. Can anyone explain? That’s what MLB is saying.
Joel Peterson………….MLB rule are the explanation
Rule 6.02(d) Comment:
“If at any time the ball hits the rosin bag it is in play. In the case of rain or wet field, the umpire may instruct the pitcher to carry the rosin bag in his hip pocket. A pitcher may use the rosin bag for the purpose of applying rosin to his bare hand or hands. Neither the pitcher nor any other player shall dust the ball with the rosin bag; neither shall the pitcher nor any other player be permitted to apply rosin from the bag to his glove or dust any part of his uniform with the rosin bag.”
Ok, that makes sense. Get an abundance of rosin and sweat and or any other fluid mixture on the glove and then you have extra rosin than what the rules would allow you to have on the ball. thanks for pointing that out
Handing out a 10 game suspension to someone has yet to be proven guilty of a foreign substance, is like sending a person to prison based on circumstantial evidence. Need to prove it by running the glove for further tests before issuing a suspension. I would not be surprised if there is a strike next season.
“There’s a youngster who was in here yesterday [2001 Winter Meetings] who had called me when he was 12 years old in Baltimore and asked, ‘Could I come by and follow you around?”‘ He talked good baseball as a kid, so I had him around for a couple of days, and I stayed in touch with him. He went to Colorado Springs so I recommended him to the Colorado Springs ballclub, to see if he could do anything around the ballpark. They did, and now he’s about 20 years old and he has seven years of baseball experience! He’s getting his degree from Colorado State in business. He’s started looking for a job. I told him, ‘Don’t take a job now. Go to law school. Then you’ll have a better chance to make your mark in the game.’”
sabr.org/bioproj/person/roland-hemond/
They should have confiscated the catcher’s mitt, chest protector and baseballs too.
I’m not sure how people are missing the fact that per the rule, you cannot have anything on the glove. Not rosin. Not anything. Santiago said ‘it’s rosin on my glove’; the suspension is because there’s ANYTHING on the glove. So ‘it’s just rosin’ isn’t a defense.
Santiago knows this. Servais knows this. Everyone knows this. It’s plastered all over ESPN for God’s sake. So all the arguments about ‘baseball didn’t say what the substance was!’ is nonsense. Every substance on the glove is illegal.
So, They never inspected the pitcher’s glove….. Why not??? Even if it was just the rosin, they could then say that he broke the rules by having the rosin on anything other than his pitching hand, To not test what it was just does not make sense. Makes it sound like they want Santiago to appeal and get his suspension and fined reduced or rescinded. Makes no sense but hey, this is MLB,. They are just the same as the NFL and NHL when it comes to any kind of discipline. Mind boggling…….
There’s no point – Santiago and Servais both said he had rosin on the glove. That’s against the rule. The test telling us what kind of substance is on the glove means nothing, because every substance is illegal. You can’t have anything in your glove, period.
Do any of the posters here screaming that they didn’t identify the substance realize that having rosin on the glove is illegal under the rules? Just asking.
I admit that I did not until after I posted. However, it still is very odd that the league didn’t check to see what it was, if only to prove that there was in fact a substance there.
What is the need? No foreign substance is allowed on the pitchers. The umps identified a substance suspected to be rosin in game. That is all that matters.
Probably not. I can say that I did not. Never read the rule book that close and of course, most of what you heard in the media leading up to this point was leaning towards pitchers using more high tech agents to better the grip. No one bothered to really explain what the actual rules are and now I do after reading. I just think that for transparency sake and in baseball’s best interest to be as forthcoming as they can they should still test what it is and publicly identify what was found. If it is just the rosin and sweat mixed, they can just say that is what it was and per rule XXX.XX this is why it is illegal Thinking if the league would have made an announcement of the rules involved and said what was legal and what was not publicly, it would have avoided a lot of the confusion and people like me thinking too much about the situation and thinking something deeper was going on.
Seems pretty straight forward. He is being suspended for having rosin in his glove.
Many of us did not realize that if the rosin got anywhere beside is pitching hand, it was against the rules. Until I read what @ Cat Mando posted above about Rule 6.02(d) Comment, i did not know the full details about the rules on the rosin use. It does not help the public to understand when all the league said that he was suspended for a foreign substance on his glove and did not offer any more explanation as to the nature of the substance and why it was illegal to be there. Most of us know the basics of the rules but do not know a lot of the details. We all know rosin is legal for use. Most of us did not know the exact details of the use. Being a little more forthcoming about the details to the ruling being made would go a long way to establish more credibility to the fans.
True. It seems MLBTR was not aware of the rule either, otherwise their comments about no further testing of the glove would have been mute.
The pitcher and manager both admitted to the rosin on the glove, so they must not have been aware of the rule either.
The pitchers have rosin bags on the mound. They can use rosin on their hands. Rosin can therefore be on the ball, but the rule is violated if any of the rosin ends up on his glove.
Sure, that makes sense.
Apparently, they aren’t allowed to catch the ball with their glove or get the ball out of their glove otherwise they can get rosin on their glove. MLB is full on crazy town now.
This is what happens when a commissioner implements a ill-conceived action with poorly thought out procedures. You thought the relationship between owners and players was combative before, just wait as the union takes MLB apart over this garbage enforcement.
They didn’t test the glove and said you can’t have rosin on your glove hand but that isn’t a rule. The league is looking stupid over this for sure
Bill Kane….you may want to read the rules. The “sticky”was found on and in his glove.
Rule 6.02(d) Comment:
“If at any time the ball hits the rosin bag it is in play. In the case of rain or wet field, the umpire may instruct the pitcher to carry the rosin bag in his hip pocket. A pitcher may use the rosin bag for the purpose of applying rosin to his bare hand or hands. Neither the pitcher nor any other player shall dust the ball with the rosin bag; neither shall the pitcher nor any other player be permitted to apply rosin from the bag to his glove or dust any part of his uniform with the rosin bag.”
So you can apply the rosin to your hands (both, since it’s plural). But one of your hands goes in the glove, so how can you say that rosin in the glove would violate the rule?
I’d also argue that applying rosin to your hand is not an infraction to the rule (even inside the glove) when the rule says you’re not permitted to “apply rosin from the bag to his glove…” In this case the rosin wasn’t applied to the glove, it was applied to the hand (wrist, etc.) that then transfers some rosin within the glove mixed with sweat. Saying that he “applied” it to the glove in this sense would be the same as saying he applied it to his glove via the ball (whether before the pitch or after catching a ball).
Put a simpler way, if I kiss someone that’s wearing chapstick, did I apply chapstick to myself? No, the word “apply” changes the meaning completely and it’s not a simple transfer.
I’d already asked this question and got no response from anyone who claims this rule is easy to understand and follow. So maybe it really isn’t so easy to understand or follow, but it sure is easy to cut and paste.
Apparently there is a rule. See above from @Cat Mando:
Rule 6.02(d) Comment:
LOL!!! THaks @Cat Mando You were quicker than me! I thank you for the info. Would had been helpful for many of us if when the league decided to crack down if they might have anted to really put the rules out there a little more so those of us who never read that deep into the rule book might have had a lot more understanding as to what they were doing.and why.
My pleasure. I’m a bit of a geek in that I keep links for the CBA, JDA, Mlb Constitution and official rules saved on my PC. That way when something like rule 3.01 or 6.02 are mentioned I can look them up.
You can probably command a fairly decent salary in a number of organizations. Sox and Mariners to name just a couple, but I’m sure there are many more.
There is my point you have the rules on your comp so you can LOOK THEM UP. I wonder do you have a 2021 official rule book an older one or one that has been put out by someone other than MLB? The official ones aren’t free. How much did you pay for it? You go ahead and act like you knew all along. Paste the rule after my comment. You seem to think it makes you smarter than everyone. It just shows your insecurities. Love ya man you do you.
@compassrose I’m pretty some fans here know that official rule forbids players to have foreign substances on their glove. I’m one of them. If you didn’t know, you didn’t know. No big deal. No point in attacking someone else who corrected your false assumptions. I’ve been wrong plenty of times here and am glad someone pointed it out so that I learn something new. Google “MLB official rules 2021”; first link. It’s free.
Rob Manfred is the worst thing that has ever happened to MLB.
How about Selig, the guy who put Manfred in place as his successor by appointing him COO of the league? Selig conspired with a cabal of owners to oust Fay Vincent when Bud owned the Brewers. Vincent was going to crack down on PEDs. Instead Bud presided over the Steroids Era.
I have no problem with suspending players who cheat. But not even testing for the foreign substance? Just relying upon what the umpire said? Yeah because umpires are so trustworthy these days. They throw players out of the game for nothing and never admit when they’re wrong, which is often.
Dude did nothing and got punished more than any Astros player. Let that sink in.
If MLB really wants to enforce the rule against ball-doctoring, fine. But Santiago is suspended because Phil Cuzzi “said he felt some sticky stuff on the inside of the glove”?
Really? What’s that — a scientific investigation?
They took his glove away. Santiago says it was just rosin and sweat. Doesn’t the league have an obligation to do a chemical analysis at least?