The Braves have moved swiftly to lock up yet another budding star on a contract extension, announcing on Tuesday night that they’ve signed rookie center fielder Michael Harris II to an eight-year, $72MM contract spanning the 2023-30 seasons. The contract contains club options for the 2031 and 2032 seasons as well.
The Braves, one of the few Major League teams to publicly disclose terms of their contracts, added that Harris will earn $5MM per season in 2023-24, $8MM annually in 2025-26, $9MM in 2027, $10MM annually from 2028-29, and $12MM in 2030. The 2031 option is valued at $15MM, and the 2032 option is valued at $20MM. Both come with $5MM buyouts.
Harris, a frontrunner to finish in the top two of National League Rookie of the Year voting — perhaps alongside teammate Spencer Strider — would’ve been a free agent after either the 2027 (with a top-two Rookie of the Year finish) or after the 2028 season but will instead forgo a trip to the open market in his mid-20s to sign a long-term pact with his hometown team.
The eight-year pact continues an aggressive trend from an Atlanta front office that has been unafraid to pay sizable sums to its young stars early in their careers. Outfielder Ronald Acuna Jr. (eight years, $100MM) and second baseman Ozzie Albies (seven years, $35MM) both signed early, very club-friendly extensions that included a pair of club options beyond their guaranteed years. Acuna’s deal, like the one being discussed with Harris, was agreed upon before he even had a full year of Major League service time.
More recently, the Braves inked Matt Olson to an eight-year, $168MM extension the day after acquiring him in a five-player blockbuster with the A’s. And, this past summer, while so many teams were focused on the trade deadline in late July, the Braves hammered out a ten-year, $212MM extension for third baseman Austin Riley (before also making a handful of trades themselves, of course).
Harris, 21, was the No. 98 overall pick in the 2019 draft and bolstered his prospect stock with a torrid race through the minors that culminated in him skipping Triple-A entirely earlier this year. Despite being promoted right from Double-A, Harris hasn’t missed a beat in the Majors. He’s logged 268 plate appearances in the Majors, tonight’s performance included, and turned in a robust .287/.325/.500 batting line with a dozen homers, 14 doubles, two triples and 13 steals (in 13 tries). Couple that production with plus center field defense (5 Defensive Runs Saved and Outs Above Average alike), and it’s easy to see how the Braves have quickly become enamored of the dynamic young outfielder.
As with any extension for a young player, there’s certainly some risk to both sides. Harris has but 71 games of big league experience under his belt with no Triple-A seasoning of which to speak. In fact, he played only 43 games in Double-A prior to his promotion. And, as good as he’s been thus far in his big league career, the Braves would surely like to see him improve upon a dismal 3.7% walk rate. He’s currently sporting a .345 average on balls in play that’ll likely drop a bit, although players with Harris’ type of speed (94th percentile sprint speed, per Statcast) can often sustain BABIP numbers higher than the league average.
The risk for Harris, meanwhile, is the same that teammates such as Acuna and Albies took when inking their own deals. He’s locking in a life-changing sum of money, to be sure, but a top-two finish in Rookie of the Year voting would have put Harris on track for arbitration following the 2024 season (or, absent that top-two finish, after the 2025 campaign). As things stand, he could’ve either been a free agent following the 2027 season, heading into his age-27 season, or following the 2028 campaign (when he’d be heading into his age-28 season). Free agents who are that young are the sorts who tend to land decade-long contracts north of $200MM or even $300MM.
Certainly, we can’t know whether Harris will sustain his current pace for a full six years. We see players debut with great fanfare and fade from the spotlight somewhat regularly, and injuries can always impact a player’s development and open-market earning power. Harris is surely aware that any early-career extension like this has the potential to turn into an unmitigated bargain for the team, just as the Braves are aware that Harris isn’t necessarily a lock to cement himself among the game’s elite young outfielders. That’s the balance all teams and players strive to strike in early extensions like this, and it appears that in this instance, the Braves and Harris found a sweet spot that’ll clock in a ways short of the Acuna deal but line up nicely with the recent eight-year, $70MM extension signed by Pirates third baseman Ke’Bryan Hayes.
While these contracts tend to be bargains of significant nature when they hit — as they’ve done near universally for the Braves to this point — it’s also worth pointing out that they do inflate a team’s luxury-tax ledger earlier than might otherwise be the case. A $72MM contract for Harris will give him an immediate $9MM luxury hit (the contract’s average annual value) when he’d otherwise have counted for less than $1MM against the tax line.
Atlanta has a $207MM luxury payroll this year and $128MM already counting against next year’s ledger, and that’s before including a Harris contract or arbitration raises for any of Max Fried, A.J. Minter, Mike Soroka or Tyler Matzek (plus any free-agent or trade additions this winter). The extensions are still likely to be cost-effective moves for the team in the long run, but the Braves will have about $50MM of luxury commitments to Acuna, Albies, Riley and Harris alone next season if this deal indeed goes through.
None of that should serve as a deterrent, of course. Harris looks the part of a budding young star, and pairing him alongside Acuna in the outfield and alongside Acuna, Riley and Albies in the lineup for the foreseeable future gives the Braves the upside of an explosive quartet being controlled at a mere fraction of market value. The reduced nature of their salaries — relative to market pricing — ought to allow the team to continue to invest in free agents to supplement the core, keeping the Braves well positioned to contend in the National League East for the foreseeable future. That Harris grew up in the Atlanta area and attended high school just 37 miles south of Truist Park only makes him all the more marketable to the fan base, and surely only makes tonight’s deal sweeter for the latest homegrown, hometown star in Atlanta.
FanSided’s Robert Murray first reported that the two sides were “deep” in talks on an eight-year deal. Jon Heyman of the New York Post reported that the contract would contain at least one option and would be valued at $72MM (Twitter links).
Braves FO is proactive and smart.
I agree. I see a lot of people questioning it, but the guy skipped AAA and he is adjusted to the adjustments thus far quite well. There must be something about Atlanta that makes it easier for their front office to lock these guys in while they’re young.
Just a pity that the Cubs don’t seem able to do the same.
Well they keep doing it cause so far it’s working. Once it starts to fail you’ll hear all the crying
Once it starts to fail? What about Ozuna?
Stick with the youngsters @ multiyear contracts. I like the way the Braves move, keep an eye on Grissom.
Maybe if we pay Boston the remains of Ozuna’s contract, they’ll take this Bozo
c’mon cubs locked up Jason Heywood, like he was a rock-star
That’s dif scenario then what braves are currently doing. Apples to orange.
David Bote sticks out as an example of a Cubs “budding star” that was locked up prematurely. He’s been an amazing asset.
Lloyd,
Thanks for the upvotes nice to wake up to these uplifitng. LOL
Amazing talented young Core that the Braves have amassed and I remember all too well the Yankees Core 4. They should dominate the NL for quite a while.
As a former South Sider, I am sad to see the state of the Cubs and that their run evaporated quickly and how Jason Heyward ( who was on my Fantasy Team as a Braves rookie ) has disappointed.
Bro… Look at the Anthony Rizzo extension he signed early in his career there.
Lol, where do you think the cubs would be if they put big money into locking up rizzo, bryant, and baez?
I think they made the right move, aside from waiting too long to trade them.
Rizzo got off to a hot start and is having a solid year but I really don’t think it is going to last much longer. Bryant is injured like he often is and Baez is showing what he is again. Def wouldn’t want to extend a catcher deep into their 30s
Baez will be fine once he gets better protection in the lineup. Rizzo can opt out at the end of the year and he wants to look smart turning down that Cubs extension, so he will be fine. Bryant is what happens when you get an oversized ego. The baseball gods slap you down to earth. The Braves are definitely taking big risks with these long extensions before players have a sophomore season. MLB pitchers figure out rookie hitters and attack their weaknesses far more often than rookies continue mashing. It’s risky but not at their prices. I doubt $12.5m aav for a player that settles into league average would hurt a team much. The upside of getting Acuna for that is worth taking. It would be more worrisome if you were talking an Andrus’ like extension.
Guys like playing for the Braves.
You don’t have to live in the big city and can get in and out fairly easily. The stadium complex is top notch. A lot to like for players living in the area.
or they like money
Nothing wrong about liking money. This is mlb with adults. It’s a business as much as a game.
Signing rookies to long term deals is a huge gamble.
I’d say the GM of the Braves has earned more latitude to make such decisions, given his track record. Of course, if this were the Mets, though, their FO would probably deserve a significant amount of scrunity.
Jason Bay is still only 43!
Yes he let perennial MVP walk out the door for a few million. The Braves would have won the division with him.They have won four championships in 147 years. I guess they are above reproach because he got lucky with a bunch of retread players last year in the playoffs.
A certain amount of luck is always required to win a World Series. Bill Buckner?
I didn’t know the Mets already won the division….
@Mets698622
Here’s a Mets fan talking about “luck”, who also thinks you can ‘luck’ a World Series by beating, firstly the Brewers 3-1 best of 5, then LA Dodgers in the NLCS 4-2 best of 7, and then beat the Houston Astros four games to two in World Series, you obviously never played any sport to actually believe that luck can win a World Series. I’d suggest you go back and watch all those games on the MLB archive, however, with some deluded fans they just can’t help their hate of other teams get in the way.
Mets fan talks about “luck”, how ironic, 150 odd infield hits and 25 odd of those are against the Braves.
‘luck’…. youtube.com/watch?v=6IdbOxI2N7I
Look at this sour loser!
“let perennial MVP walk”??
You obviously don’t know the full story. He had a robust offer from the Braves that his agent withheld from him.
Lucky? And the season isn’t over yet so let’s not get ahead of yourself on guaranteeing a Mets division title. Also again wtf have the Mets done besides choke and suck year in year out. They are playing well this year and it’s going to be a battle but baseball is a business. They let Freddie walk bc of his agents demands. They signed a younger star 1B to a longer and cheaper deal which helps the team lock up others. Sure Olson isn’t freeman but they are just fine with what they got now.
By no means a Mets fan, but signing a rookie and signing a 30 year old All-Star coming off a career high in home runs and a .264/.387/.537 slash are two completely different things to attempt to compare….
Yes agreed. – A Nats fan
How many have the Mets won?
At least you aren’t jealous Mets698622
The last time the Mets won the World Series powdered wigs were in fashion.
So they got lucky last year with a bunch of retread players and not b/c of that perennial MVP they let walk for a couple of million? Sounds like a contradiction. Nevermind reports that they were spurned by the fired agent that has a history of the same tactics (with Jeter’s final contract with NYY). I guess we’ll see how that 6th contract year looks like to really see if that was the right way to go. They’ve been able to use some of that savings to lock-up 3B (Riley) – who already looks like a perennial MVP candidate – and CF (Harris) since.
Lol you just mad bc the Mets haven’t developed a good hitter since Alonso.
How am I jealous? The Braves have a better left fielder locked up long term. Riley is great but the Mets are calling up a stud tonight at 3b. The Mets have an owner that the league is making rules to hamper. The Mets have the fifth best farm system in baseball. The Mets future is very bright.
I didn’t say they had. I’m saying the Braves would be up and would have rolled the nl with Freeman.
Ones coming up tonight. Have another that’s the best prospect in baseball. Traded one for Lindor. Not sure what your point is.
Classy comment from a typical Mets fan.
Signing SS to 10 year deals is a bigger gamble.
I agree. Signing anyone to ten years hardly ever works out.
Signing 10 yr Olds to contracts the biggest gamble. Unless it’s for candy and treats
Risk management. Pros and cons to it. Just like signing damn near anyone long term.
Absolutely is a huge gamble but how many times has a team signed the “superstar” player to his first big contract only for it to fizzle Putin just a few years or they not live up to the expectations after. Gotta gamble to win sometimes.
13 yrs and $360m is a huge gamble. 8 yrs and $72m is a much different story but still a gamble.
Not a huge gamble if an organization is selective/self scouts well. It is more of a gamble to dole out l-t contracts to free agents. It is like a thank you for being good during one’s prime (usually for another team) and acquiring club gets the diminishing returns version of player at a crazy high price. There are exceptions of course, but good to see some young exciting players lock in their first fortune.
Well, anything is a gamble, but the pros far outweigh the risk with this one. ATL is getting FAR more value by locking up key pieces they draft, develop and extend while avoiding the free agent market where there’s so much more risk. Looks at how many contracts are bad within the first year.
This is the point: they’ll be paying a 29 y/o $12M in 2030, while in 2022 they’re paying a 31 y/o Marcell Ozuna $16M to be the 3rd worst DH in all of MLB. Even without projected inflation — that’s insane. Considering Harris’ advanced on-base skills, base-running skills, fielding alone make this worth it. Bottom floor he’s a 20/20 CF with top-5 defense. In his prime he could be a GG CF with 30/30 skills. If Harris and Acuna come anywhere close to their ceiling at the same time — watch out.
DMC: Huge fan of this signing and agree w/most of what you said, but Harris II doesn’t have “advanced on base skills.” He’s got a lot of work to do in that area. Ranking in the following: Zone rate: 184th (he doesn’t see many strikes)….Zone swing rate 95th:
(highish)…..Zone contact: 164th…..Chase rate: 6th…..Chase contact: 167th…..Overall swing rate: 19th….Overall whiff rate: 57th(higher is more whiffs). “These are Harris ranks among 265 hitters w/200 PA or better. Stats culled from Baseball Savant from an article on Battery Power” by Ivan the Great dated July 28 2022. Author sums this up w/this: “These things don’t paint the picture of a really good hitter, even though Harris has been well above average so far, even on an inputs basis. He swings a ton, but the swings are concentrated in stuff he shouldn’t be swinging at. He whiffs a ton too, though the section above suggests that’s a perfectly fine trade off.. Still, the chase rate is kind of an issue.” His 10 walks and 65 K’s in 268 PA doesn’t jibe w/your assertion that he has “advanced On-Base skills.”
Re: “advanced OB skills” — I included MiLB that gives a broader outlook than the smaller sample size his MLB career shows thusfar. Sure, he faces better competition in MLB so you should factor in coming down from his career .360 OBP in 739 MiLB AB. It should be better than the .325 OBP in his 254 MLB AB so far. So unless he turns out like Albies – a great OBP throughout the minors that sacrifices that for SLG later in his career – I’d expect that to creep up above average, closer to his career rates.
Albies isn’t a bad comp when talking about Harris II. They both chase unhittable pitches at a cringeworthy rate. Both can look mind numbingly awful in one AB and then make good contact on the next. Love both of them, lol. Hope Michael develops a bit more plate discipline as he ages. as you suggest he might. Even if he doesn’t, his defense and ability to hit some of those out of the zone pitches coupled w/his excellent barrel contacts makes for must see AB’s from him. The speed and base running provide a nice cherry on the top.
They won’t be paying 12 mil at that time. His next three years will be around a mil a piece and the real contract will be around 5/70. That’s not that big of a discount for a .280 hitter and 10/15 homer center fielder who plays good d.
Harris much more than “a 10/15 homer center fielder.” He’s got 12 in 268 PA already this season. Still just a rookie. He’s a future 30/30 plus guy who plays excellent, not “good d.” Still hasn’t been caught stealing yet either (13 for 13.) You’re way off on the contract terms that are outlined in the article. He’s making 5 mill each in 23-24, 8 mill in 25-26, 9 mill in 27, 10 mill in 28-29, and 12 in 30. 2031 option 15 mill, 2032 option 20 mill w/5 mill buyouts on each.
I just read the contract details and I was off. His home run totals were not higher then 7 in a season before this year. Don’t expect him to be a perennial 20 he guy.
He’s got 12 HR in his first 254 AB in MLB as the youngest MLB player while skipping AAA and providing excellent defense at one of the hardest positions….but sure, 10-15 HR is spot on when he fully matures.
It is a gamble, but just about every contract over 2yrs is. The Braves scouted him, drafted him, developed him, and now they’re seeing him execute in MLB. Not too huge of a gamble when compared to the gamble of waiting and then overpaying for unproductive late years.
Indeed. Preller could learn A LOT from the Braves.
No Tatis bobble head!
The Tatis bobble head will have ringworm
Young players are always smart to sign these early extensions, if your like Albies and Salvador Perez public pressure after years of whining and complaining makes the teams over pay them later on. Buster olney talks about it on his podcast like once a week.
I actually don’t even think this is that great of a deal. If Harris plays well, I’d estimate the following
1st year arb $5 mil
2nd year $8 mil
3rd year $12 mil
4th year $15 mil
2 years FA $20 mil each
That’s a total of $80 mil. And that’s if everything went right for Harris for 8 years. An $8 mil discount to bear the brunt of the risk of things don’t go well over 8 years doesn’t really feel like enough to me.
It’s not a bad deal, I do think Harris will perform just fine, but I think it’s a small L for the Braves when you really break it down.
That 4th year arb seems super low. He would probably push into the low/mid 20’s
that’s like a 99th percentile number and you’re arguing it should be 99.98th percentile 5 years from now. you may not be wrong….you may not be right.
On these signings, you are betting on character as much as talent. Some kids get money and relax. Some get the money and want to brand themselves. Some get the money, get direct deposit, and show early tomorrow morning to hone their craft 1% more.
Braves are able to do this because they have confidence in how they develop their players. Other teams, like my Tigers, can’t be sure their players will work out once they arrive. Signing Candelario would have looked good last year. No where near the same player this year. If teams can’t trust their player development, this type of contract is not really an option. It helps that none of these Braves prospects have Boras as their agent.
I love Harris, but it might be a little premature. It would have to be very team-friendly.
I don’t hate it. If it’s 72m, it’s a fair gamble for both sides. He’s a Georgia kid, he’ll never have to go through arbitration and he’ll still be able to get to FA before his 30th birthday if he so chooses. For the team, this further solidifies they’re looking at kinda an eight season window. I don’t think there’s much risk it goes completely south unless he suffers some terrible injury, but that’s a risk on any deal and what insurance is for.
They signed then BJ Upton in 2012 to a 5 year $75.25m deal. $72m is extremely team friendly. Dude’s gonna win the Gold Glove from every year for many years to come. The defense he plays is worth the $72m alone.
Disagree. Not team friendly and you’re not even comparing apples to apples with the BJ example. BJ was a free agent. Harris still has two years prearb and 4 years arb out of that 8 year deal.
You can argue the system is dumb all you want but it favors teams controlling young talent cheaply and the Braves gave that up without much of a discount (if at all) not to mention assumed the risk that he’ll continue to play well for 8 straight seasons.
Not a terrible deal for the Braves but I still think it qualifies as a small loss. Definitely not a team friendly deal. Anyone who thinks its team friendly doesn’t understand how baseball contracts work.
Free agency is a gamble — extending someone is not a gamble, it’s an investment. They scouted, drafted, developed this kid and his skills already shouldn’t decline much, if any, during the life of the contract (32 y/o) making no more than 20M in the last year of the option (12M in the last contracted year: 2030).
I said this a week into his debut, he is better than Acuna and it is not even close, especially defensively and fundamentally.
And just like 99.9999% of everything you say…..you’re wrong again. I love Harris but he is not and will never be as good as Acuna. Simply look at what Acuna did in his first season and what Harris is doing. It’s not even close. Then peep Acuna’s 2nd season. You honestly think Harris will even sniff those numbers? You’re judging Acuna based on coming back from a major knee surgery. I can guarantee after next year (first full season after a full recovery) you will never, ever claim Harris is “better than Acuna” again. Harris will be a very good center fielder but he’ll never be Acuna and that’s fine.
Of course, you have no argument for this season and using his injury as an excuse. Acuna will always be a mental hurdle. He is not a great base stealer despite his constant attempts. His defense is above average, but he has lapses. Harris is head and shoulders above him on defense. I’m still willing to take your bet that Acuna is not a “superstar” and will be flawed but still above average hitter. But again, keep your “wat he can be” rather than wat he is right now argument.
So your argument is he’s an above average hitter, he’s an above average defender, but he’s not a good base stealer despite the fact that he steals at better than a 75% rate for his career?
You should just say what you mean: you don’t like him because he’s a flashy player. You’re trying to skirt around it, but it’s not hard to pick up on.
I always argued he is not a superstar. That was always blatant and I never shied away from that. He is an above average player. Hitting wise, fine Acuna may still end up being better than Harris (not that I agree with it); however, if you somehow think Acuna is better defensively.. that i will not agree with at all.
Let me ask you this then: who is a superstar? Which player(s). I mean, to me, if a guy does multiple things really well, that makes him a superstar. I’m just curious because you seem to have an incredibly high bar for superstar talent.
Freeman
and yes I do. The term is thrown around too much nowadays.
1st step to being put in the category: Play
Jesus Christ. Superstar.
2nd step: Please be kind, rewind.
3rd step: Eject video cassette
step 1: collect underpants
step 2: ?
step 3 : profit
You are insane lol I love Harris and yes he is better than Acuna defensively, but thats it. Acuna on offense is in a different stratosphere than Harris is and if you dont think Acuna is a superstar you are tripping…he is easily one of the top 10 (maybe even top 5) players in all of baseball
@striderslegday
You are bumgarner=NLCS arnt you? Harris is fine but acuna has put up an even better OPS every year except this one. I actually enjoyed a few of his takes. Not all but you/he always stuck by what he believed in.
Yes—-he’s Bum/NLCS and most recently Re-Sign Swanson.
It is always hilarious when some ppl argue against my opinions with insults. I never insult back because they have no back up claim other than their crystal ball that clearly says Acuna will be and continue to be a star for the next whatever years. They somehow know this for sure. Acuna is not reliable, plain and simple. I’ll be stubborn until Acuna proves he can stay healthy and actually put up superstar numbers consistently.
Calling Harris better than Acuna may be premature but from what I’ve seen, he looks more coachable. His defense alone makes me more confident with my claim. Maybe using this year may not reliable evidence, but he is not improving. Whether it is stats or eye-test, he is pitchable. I’ll stick to that because I heard the same thing about Heyward.
So basically what you are saying is you don’t know talent when you see it. If AA evaluated talent based on your past opinions Riley, Swanson, Wright, etc would all be gone. And we’d be saddled with a bad Baumgardner contract. But last night is a prime example of why Harris will never be Acuna. Ronald is patient, walks four times while Harris is up there hacking at balls in the dirt and the right hand batter box. He will never, ever have the discipline and on base skills Ronald has. Harris profiles more as an Ozzie type hitter. Can make hard contact on bad pitches but will never have the plate discipline to have the elite on base skills Acuna has. I hope I’m wrong and he does end up being even close to an Acuna but I just don’t see it.
Haha using one day he walked 4x as a valid argument. As I said, people bring up everything they could to defend Acuna.
Also, what does this have to do with Riley, Swanson, and Wright? Are you looking to make up something I said about them like trading them? I’m looking forward to the evidence, especially regarding Swanson. I’m also very interested to see where you got the discipline part for Acuna? Acuna does not have discipline at all. If stupid pitchers stop throwing him down the middle fastballs for first pitches, his HR numbers will go down as well.
And we’ve said you’re an idiot since opening day
A+
mrnotsoniceguy: User name checks out.
Acuna has a canon for an arm, elite speed, gets to balls most don’t. He is a top five talent. Harris is not even in the same stratosphere.
Not really true.. Harris has more range than Acuna. He’s a better CF but Acuna’s a better RF than Harris because of the arm. Both are elite at their positions.
Spot on, Yay.
I guess that depends on whether you rely on the eye test or on metrics, and if the latter, which metrics you think are valid.
Since 2020 (observing the 3-year sample caveat for defensive metrics), Acuna is taxed with -4 Outs Above Average in right field and -3 Runs Prevented by Statcast, and -4 Def by Fangraphs. He’s taxed with -3 DWAR this year by ESPN.
On the other hand the Fielding Bible credits him with 4 Defensive Runs Saved since 2020, and Fangraphs credits him a 4.3 UZR/150. But he’s taxed with -0.2 Range Runs, so the claim that he “gets to balls most don’t” isn’t supported by the 3-year sample. That said, I think there’s a fundamental logical flaw in the 3-year sample caveat, so there’s that; but that’s another discussion.
I guess the bottom line is, if you’re going by stats, it’s a stretch to call him an elite right fielder.
Harris has a cannon too though
Fink you are always dropping serious facts. May Allah bless you.
Fink is a top 5 guy on here.
Better then Acuna, Acuna isn’t a superstar. Lmao you def know nothing. “Injury is an excuse” yeh that’s false. When fully healthy the dude destroyed the league and over the last month has started to torch them again once he gets his feel. Acuna is by far one of the top players in baseball if not the face of baseball.
Man that’s risky after only 70 games of action. Hope it pays off for them.
Way to soon. No rush. Why not wait until next year?
If they believe in him enough to do it, they may as well do it ASAP. If they are right, the longer they wait the less willing he’ll be to sign a team friendly extension and give up FA years. So far they’ve gotten the extensions right.
Except Freddie.
They gave Freddie an 8 year $135m extension in 2014. They also punted on Heyward and ended up w/ Swanson. They got that right too.
Price may keep going up.
cost certainty.
don’t know why it’s 3 responses
Dammmmmmmmmn. Great to hear. Listening to the game now.
This is… quick…. either they’re gonna get him to sign for chump change or they’re anticipating big things and splitting the difference.
This is gonna either be like 8 years/$50M or 8 years/$100M. I’d be surprised if it was actually something reasonable for both sides…. like where you split the difference on him taking a moderate but not insane discount if he lives up to his potential and the Braves not overpaying for someone who could flame out or stagnate quickly with tons of money left.
You was close. I think they see more upside. Plus, he was a local kid
He’s going to finish top two for ROY so 2022 would be a full year of service time
Rick: Doesn’t that top 2 ROY finish rule only apply if he was on the Opening Day roster? He wasn’t, so……….?
This will go down as better than Ozzie’s deal for the Braves. Awesome!
Lol I dunno 7/35… Ozzie deal probably gonna win out
Ozzie’s deal is so ridiculously cheap
Hopefully it’s works better for him than it did ringworm boy
Why do these Braves players keep signing these contracts that end up paying them 150+mil less than they should. Are they giving them $$ under the table?
Georgia’s a great place to live and play.
Because things like Acuña blowing out his knee and Ozzie breaking his foot can happen. During their rehabs neither had to worry about cashing checks.
He would legit have to wait 6yrs to even get the chance at $150mill.. and no guarantees he gets there… this is smart move on his part .. hit free agency at 29 at then get another $100mill deal
Let’s see where some of these extensions:
Acuna tore his ACL last year and missed 50% of 2021 and the first month of 2022. He’s currently slashing .278/.365/.424, which isn’t bad, but not great for a guy who had a slugging percentage over .550 in three of the four seasons prior.
Ozzie has played 62 games this year. His last appearance was just over two months ago now, and when he went on the IL had an 89 OPS+.
They’re both getting guarenteed money though despite missing a very large chunk of playing time and not performing to expectations. Life isn’t a guarentee, but baseball contracts are.
I’m pretty sure most of these deals are insured for injury. So the club -while they want their players to be healthy- isn’t losing anything from a financial aspect if a guy unfortunately gets hurt.
The risk only comes from performance, and I’d argue RAJs and Albies deals are both so team friendly it’d be hard to not get what the Braves are paying for.
I think you’re missing the point. The player is still getting the money, regardless if the organization is insured or not. The team takes on all the risk. Who’s to say that this ACL injury isn’t going to have long-term affects for Acuna? We won’t know that until 2, 3, maybe even five years later, but even if it does, Acuna still gets his $17 a million until 2026, plus at least another $10 more million on top of that. Albies’ contract is a lot more team friendly, but same point. What if Ozzie’s injury affects him long term? If it does, he still gets $7 million every year until 2025. Then he gets at least another $4 million guarenteed in 2026. It’s about financial security for the player.
In Acuna Jr’s case, ACL injuries rarely have lasting long-term implications for a baseball player. With Ozzie we’re talking about a fractured foot, which again, is unlikely to have long-term ramifications. Short of a back injury or some type of degenerative condition, most position player deals are fairly safe from injury.
Pitching is where the risk for a club is high.
Correct. I remember the Braves collecting quite a bit of insurance money on Mike Hampton.
For every Acuna Jr. there’s a Scott Kingery. It’s a calculated risk by both the FO and for the player it’s security.
Didn’t they sign Kingery to that deal before he’d even played in the majors? At least Harris has a few months of MLB time.
After his second full year in the majors, that Kingery deal wasn’t looking half bad. Of course, then he fell off a cliff.
The big problem with these long term extensions is that the majority of even good rookies won’t be in the league for eight years. In 2014, Billy Hamilton was in second place in ROY voting. I don’t think anyone would have wanted to pay him a guaranteed $12MM this year in the final year of a similar deal.
2014 must have been a bad year for rookies, because Hamilton had some serious flaws in his game that only got worse. I’m not saying that this deal with Harris will pay off for the Braves, but Harris’ floor is higher than Hamilton’s was. At least Harris can hit the ball.
Wasn’t trying to compare the two players specifically, just showing how big a difference a player can look after 8 years. Hamilton did have flaws, but he was a far superior prospect to Harris at the time as well. He was a top 50 prospect for three straight years with all three major prospect rankings. Harris was only a top 50 prospect on one list.
Hamilton hit much better early in his career than later mainly because pitchers figured him out and he couldn’t adjust. Harris will get figured out too. If he adjusts, he will succeed. If not, he will be another in a long line.
As for Kingery 6 years at $24m isn’t a risk. Heck there are platoon outfielders making more than that. It’s still sad though how Phillies hitting coaches destroyed this kids confidence with changing his swing…trying to focus on launch angle, exit velo, etc… Almost mirroring Dom Brown’s one year success, only to fail miserably.
Except Kingery is not even good enough to be a platoon OF. It might not have been the worst financial blunder in terms of dollar amount, but it ranks right up there as far as least amount of production. And when it comes down to it, that’s all the fan should worry about anyway. Let the owner worry about payroll.
They are taking life changing guaranteed money now. Family will be Set for generations with proper financial guidance
Billy Hamilton looked good after 13 games. His first full season was OK but nothing special.
The excitement brought by Hamilton to the fans was probably the most of any player in Cincinnati since Eric Davis. The stats won’t show it, but that guy was fun to watch play. Wasn’t the best player, but was surely the most exciting.
Seems like an Aaron Hicks type deal. Braves are going to have a strong lineup core for the foreseeable future with Acuna/Albies/Olson/Riley/Harris locked up
They’d better hope it’s not like an Aaron Hicks deal. That was among Cashman’s worst recent blunders. But I would hardly compare the two. Hicks was already in the league for six years, with a long history of injuries, and entering his age-29 season when Cashman made that mistake.
I was referring more to the length/dollar amount than an actual comparison to Hicks. Hicks is at best a 4th Outfielder and i can see Cashman eating the remainder of his deal with Bader in CF next season.
Yeah, the financial terms are similar, although Harris’s contract is a year longer so his average annual salary is $9M to Hicks’s $10M.
I sure hope you’re right that Hal will be willing to eat Hicks’s remaining salary. I thought the highly supportive remarks that Aaron Judge made about the impending arrival of center fielder Estevan Florial were at least interesting.
“I haven’t checked the stat line on (Florial), but during the game they show what some of the minor leaguers are doing and I always see his name flashing up on the board going 3-for-4 with a homer, stealing two bases. He’s a special talent.
“The times I got a chance to play with him … the guy always wants to learn. He’s a hard worker. He does a little things to help his team, so if that’s true that he’s coming up here — I don’t know, I haven’t heard that — he’ll definitely help us out.”
nj.com/yankees/2022/08/are-yankees-giving-up-on-aa…
The concerning part about Florial is that he has already struck out more this season than he did last season in the minors so that doesn’t bode well at the MLB level.
Perhaps that doesn’t really matter these days as most batting lines make Mark Reynolds look like Rod Carew
In the longest of Florial’s brief big-league stints, his K% was 24% and his BB% was 20%, so maybe he’s the kind who raises his game under pressure. I have to hope.
I would like to see Duran and Florial succeed. It’s fun when the two teams have homegrown players at the same position that we can argue who is better, simliar to Nomar/Jeter in the late 90’s
Omg if this gets done, just go ahead and give us 3 more WS rings!
Okay relax
Sounding like the 2016 cubs fans now
I’m a Braves fan and I wouldn’t go that far. I’d be happy with one more over that period. Two in the span of a decade is a significant accomplishment. Remember, they won 14 straight division titles before with some good teams and only won 1 WS during that run.
Or a tower of onion rings yum.
This is the riskiest extension they’ve done by far. I still like it though lol
At this moment Michael Harris is the youngest player in MLB. He hasn’t even played a half season in MLB. And the Braves are willing to commit $72M to him! That takes guts on the Braves side.
His defense is worth that much money by itself.
Freeman: “where my extension?”
*sad face*
On his agents desk.
Dang he’s getting paid some big bucks!!
To date the Braves have won so much with these deals compared to what a market could be in free agency that I like the gamble.
Crazy that he Braves could have 5 of 8 positions locked up for many years to come.
Also thinking with this signing and Grissom doing so well early that Swanson probably is it a Braves next year
They could move Grissom to left, but I agree with you.
Don’t know why anyone thinks Grissom is going to play SS in the ML. He has a future a utility/Lfer, imo. He doesn’t have a SS arm. Awkward infield play so far. Passable only because he’s hitting and the Braves were in a tough spot after Arcia went down. Does anyone really think that Grissom is going to be the reason Swanson isn’t re-signed? Can’t see it.
Swanson wanting $20m+ is the reason the Braves aren’t going to re-sign him. A lot of people on here always pointed out in the past that Dansby, if you disregard 2020, is a below league average hitter. His defense is solid and his clubhouse energy is great I admit, but he’s overachieving greatly with that 380 babip. Swanson isn’t the hitter that everyone is seeing right now. It’s funny how these guys seemingly always have career years in their walk year.
Philadelphia will pay Swanson and move Stott to 2B.
So the Braves plan on signing everyone to ten year contracts and hope that they all have hall of fame careers? They are going to have no flexibility to make roster moves when players don’t perform or their needs change. I understand locking up Acuna and Riley but this is just getting silly.
The Braves don’t give no-trade clauses, so if they need flexibility, they can trade the player who’s locked in for a reasonable rate.
If there is value to the player. It’s not like good major leaguers don’t often regress fairly quickly.
It’s a risk, sure, but $9M/year isn’t that much for a player who plays great defense in center field. His floor is high.
We will see. He has only played around 70 games.
The salt is strong with this one.
The Red Sox and JBJ beg to differ. They couldn’t give that dude away and he was making less.
Yeah, and signing Dan Uggla and BJ Upton to 4 and 5 year deals worth $15m a year worked out so well.
@Smacky, different regimes. Uggla was 31 and that was viewed as a bad deal from the start. The Acuna and Harris contracts are OVER before they turn 31. The skillsets are quite different. Even Upton was already 28 and had a number of red flags. I don’t see the comparison at all. If anything, these current deals, based on the players’ skills and ages, are counterbalances to deals like Uggla and Upton.
Agree 99. Upton and uggla were classic FA deals that went bad. Poster guys for the kinds of players teams shouldn’t go after on more than 1 or 2 year deals.
He doesn’t need to be a HOF player for this to be a good deal. A $9MM AAV for eight years, buying out his 20s, is a very good deal for the Braves, one that becomes more cost-effective per year as the price of a dollar erodes.
The Kelenic scenario is instructive. The Braves aren’t offering these deals to minor leaguers before they face MLB pitching. The Mariners were lucky Kelenic didn’t accept their offer, but it’s also a deal they wouldn’t have extended once they saw his pitch-recognition and breaking-ball issues against major leaguers. The Braves at least got to see Acuna, Riley and Martin face and react to the best pitching in the world before placing their bets.
The downside to Braves fans is these deals likely mean Acuna will leave the Braves similar to Freeman. Acuna signed a very team-friendly deal, but also locked in $100MM. He got his generational wealth, but sacrificed a lot of money by delaying free agency with the Braves buying out out 20s, so it’s highly unlikely he’ll be looking to sign a team-friendly extension. He’ll be going for full-market value, and the Braves won’t do that. A Henry Aaron coming up today gives the Braves his peak 20s, but his career record-setting numbers would happen for another team. I still believe that the Freeman non-deal will be viewed as an error, both baseball wise and business wise.
The Braves do these deals with young position players. They mostly don’t with their going pitchers because they break. Soroko is a perfect example. That means, however, that three of their starters will all be free agents at the end of 2024. They must have confidence they can keep developing them.
Agree w/most of that 99, but FF chose LA over the Braves for virtually the same money Atlanta offered him. Not really an “error” by the Braves FO, imo. Just a case of a player preferring to play elsewhere. FF wanted to play in the place he grew up and be near his aging father, grandfather, and other family.
mmmm…. Freeman’s choice was made for him in that the Braves took Atlanta off the table when they opted for Olson. Once that happened, he was actually kinda lucky to get what he got from LA.
The Braves wouldn’t be making these moves if they were going to hamper their long-term ability to make moves. The Braves have money. They’ve got major money coming in and it’s only going to get better when they get a new TV deal in a few years and get out from under one of the lowest paying TV deals in baseball. There’s a recent report that the Braves could eventually move into top 5 in baseball in payroll and I have no reason to doubt it.
What people need to understand about the Braves is that their payroll and how much they spend isn’t set by Liberty Media.. LM has absolutely no say on what happens with the Braves with regards to money because the Braves are operated as their completely separate entity apart from LM. That was the only way for LM to get approval to buy the team. Therefore if the Braves make $100M in revenue the Braves are required to spend pretty much all of that on payroll. LM cannot just take the money and pocket it like other MLB owners. Last year the Braves were 2nd in MLB in attendance. This year the Braves are 3rd in MLB attendance ahead of the Yankees. Folks are showing up and showing out and the Braves are swimming in money right now and have to spend it on the team. What better way to spend it than by locking up your young extremely talented players?
Also, I want to make the note, everyone is talking about how Michael Harris is taking far less money than he’s worth, but let’s talk about that for a second. Harris is now scheduled to make a ton more money in the next 4 or 5 years than he would have ever come close to seeing if he had gone year-to-year through the MLB arbitration process. He’s gonna get $5M next year when he would have gotten less than $1M as a per-arbitration player.. He’s gonna get $5M in 2024 when he would have gotten less than that in arbitration. He’s gonna get $8M in 2025. He might not have gotten that much in arbitration. Then we get to him getting $8M in 2026, that’s when he might have gotten more in arbitration and then of course he would have been a free agent after 2027. So yeah, he’s giving up some at the back end to get paid a whole lot more up front.. Now if he’s got wise people managing his money he’s financially set for the rest of his life if his career goes south. That’s why these young players do the deal. The Braves do the deal because they believe these players will continue to progress and get better and therefore the risk is totally worth it if you’ve got a player locked up for far below market value. It’s smart finances on the Braves part and It’s surprising more teams don’t try to take this approach to keeping a team together. There’s no shady business or cheating or anything else being done here. The Braves aren’t forcing these guys to accept these deals.
But I don’t know about you guys, but if I was that young and someone offered me that much money up front I’d take it in a heartbeat. Especially if you’re a player that came up living in poverty and now you’ve instantly got a chance to give your family a better life that they’ve never had before. The other thing that should be noted, is that all these deals the Braves gave out still allow the player to reach free agency at a young age to where they can cash in big on the open market. Notice that Matt Olson and Austin Riley’s deals are a whole lot more money and the reason for that is because neither of them will get to reach free agency at a young age. The Braves aren’t doing these guys wrong.
Well said. More should take note of your explanation on how the relationship between LM and the Braves. You’re spot on there.
“…..on how the relationship between LM and the Braves” WORKS.
Ugh………
All that is true and I think the Braves are a quality organization that will not let these young players get swindled or otherwise financially ruined. And I am sure that has come up in these discussions.
I can understand why you sound sore. I mean the Mets are still paying Bobby Bonilla right?
Great news. Now to figure out what happens with Dansby.
Need fried locked up
Very true.
Fried, Strider, Wright, Soroka, Anderson
That’s tough to navigate in a series. Add in Morton for as long as he stays around also.
Don’t forget about deGrom…
Too risky to lock pitchers up on these kind of deals. They break too easily.
Love the kid but I just don’t see it. You’re banking a lot on the fact that pitchers don’t figure him out… Prove me wrong and I’ll be over the moon but I just don’t see it. Guess that’s why I’m in an arm chair eh?
He’s a ballplayer. He will be fine. Plus his defense & speed are outstanding. Not to mention the clutch gene.
We’re talking about a kid who needs to average 1war per yr for the next 8yrs to make this extension worth it. According to BBREF he’s already at 2.9 for this season in 70 games. My point is in essence he’s already earned the next 2 seasons worth of pay and this season is not done yet. See the value now?
You’re right if you believe that players should be paid 9 mill per WAR. How many players really are though? Front offices take these kinds of gambles because they think they can get more value than that. Agree w/you that Harris is currently providing more value than his AAV.
Get Dansby locked up. Braves are trying to be a consistent team with core players buying in to the culture. Pass the baton and do something special. Chop on boys!
Dansby is probably out of the Braves market at this point. He’d have to sign a really team-friendly deal, and I don’t see that happening, especially if Grissom continues to impress.
I don’t think so, I think Dansby gets resigned reasonably as fan service. Losing Freddie and Dansby in consecutive years would be rough for the fans. Dansby is really being that bridge from Freddie’s era to these young kids. I think they keep him around and Grissom does move to LF.
AA has shown that the bottom line is at least as important to him as the fans. If he was willing to pivot from Freddie, he’ll be willing to pivot from Dansby. I hope I’m wrong.
I think the Freddie thing was 100% his agent. I think he would have signed a 5 year deal, and he clearly wanted to stay in Atlanta. He pivoted to Olson because he was plan B. Like I said, I think Dansby stays, but if it comes down to him or a Fried extension, you have to thank Dansby for all his fine work and move on.
No pivot there. Olson was Plan A all along, not Freddie. Braves PR department was pretty slick here. IE making it look like Freddie was priority, they got Olson’s agent to bite on the contract terms, length and amount, they were looking for. Freddie is quite the ballplayer, but because of age, he didn’t fit in to this 8 year model the Braves seem to be rolling with in regards to position players.
@C Yards, yup. They would have signed Freeman, but didn’t expect to sign him, and when a team approaches negotiations not expecting to sign a player, then it becomes self-fulfilling.
I think Olson or Freeman were both Plan A, but they probably believed Olson was more realistic budget wise, so I lean toward him being Plan 1A with Freeman being Plan 2A. They would have welcomed him back, but they were on a path not to bring him back. Maybe the lockout complicated things, almost assuredly did, but I think they were afraid the A’s would quickly trade Olson so their negotiating leverage with Freeman would be gone, so they made the business decision. Casey Close, Freeman’s agent, is very experienced. This was not his first rodeo and he knew Freeman wanted to stay. The Braves were working two parallel paths and I don’t believe they were forthcoming, making it difficult to assess the Braves intentions. The Braves have been putting out PR spin on this deal from day one. First it was Freeman wanted to leave for his “home,” and then when it was clear Freddie was surprised, their story changed to the agent screwed up. Freeman’s emotion on this is real.
As I stated elsewhere, history will probably view the non-deal with Freeman as a mistake. Olson is very good, but his hit skills are not in Freeman’s class. Freddie is a likely HOFer still producing at a high level. That’s something Braves fans should have been able to experience. A career Brave heading to the Hall. His skillset should age well. I suspect Olson will be good into his early 30’s, but that his best season is already in the rear-view mirror. Add in Freeman’s value to his teammates, the fans, the organization and his Braves legacy, and it’s not worth the few million they saved on AAV. They also traded prospects for the privilege of not signing Freeman. It doesn’t matter if the prospects bust as major leaguers. They could have kept Freeman AND the prospects and then used the prospects for other trades. I’m not a Pache fan, at least not as a starter, but I do like Langoliers, who has now arrived. He should be a good one after an adjustment period.
@LordD99; great stuff. 2 things. 1st. Completely did not consider looking at this from the As perspective. Thanks for that view. 2nd. Freddy is a beast. This could easily backfire on the Braves. Cheers!
Let me paint you a picture — just like last year when LAD let Seager walk and replaced his offense with FF for less money — they will go back to the same agent (Casey Close) and try it again by replacing Trea Turner with Dansby after Close tries the same approach with ATL FO of leveraging a supposed franchise icon against the team. ATL will balk, especially needing to find a place for Grissom – and because he’s already a hit with the fans at min rate – PR doesn’t have to earn their keep for this one. This is even easier than last year when the fans had to warm to a relative stranger (Matt Olson) who was from ATL and an All-Star already.
@RunDMC; sweet take. And Grissom? Love that guy!
Also, of the handful of quality but aging SSs up for a long term contract/big “payday”, playing amateur GM here, I’d be after Trea. Obviously, all have superb skill sets, the difference maker to me comes down to staying healthy. IE. who’s still gonna be relevant at a physical high level in years 6/7/8. Trea, to date, looks like he has had a tiny injury history and, to me, has a physical body type that will hold up.
Elias in Baltimore has been chirping that John Angelos will spend this off season. Translation? Maybe long term deals for Rutschman and Mullins and on a free agent pitcher. Personally, I’m drinking the Mateo Kool Aid, but maybe Elias is not. Hope he goes with Trea over his boy Correa(SP?) here on that long term deal. (the game is played up the middle fellas!). Oh, and what about Henderson and Westburg? 3rd base and 2nd base, respectfully.
Looking forward to you coming back at a later date and admitting how wrong you are in your constant assertions that Grissom will be the Braves SS going forward and the reason Dansby won’t be re-signed. Braves aren’t going to pay DeGrom 40 plus mill on a multi year deal either. I’ll eat crow if I’m wrong.
Thank god Kelenic didn’t accept his long term extension offer before last season. Lol
By now it is clear that my team the Mets got Edwin Diaz for free. Corner outfielders are fungible. Arms like Diaz are rare.
Not exactly free, with the $60M+ owed to Cano, but I get your point.
Great move. Harris is elite defensively and he’s shown a knack to get BIG clutch hits, not to mention high end base running.
damn braves doing mlb the show franchise tactics
When the Braves move Grissom to the outfield, they’ll have the best infield AND outfield in the game.
The “best infield” take depends on if they’re able to re-sign Swanson Kevin.
Risky? Yes. But it can be so much worth it. I mean look at albies’s and Acuna ´s contracts
Genius.. hope Os fo is taking notes and will do this with are core. Can’t outspend the yanks/red Sox
@BmoreBallistics; you read my mind. Hoping Rutschmans (sp?) agent will consider this when offered to him by Elias and company. Fingers crossed. Adley’s not just productive, he’s a winner.
Adley’s going to get even more. Which I’d be totally cool with. Plate discipline like that from a rookie is extremely rare. He’s a real good one.
I hope the $$$$ does not reduce his drive.
Or increase the pressure.
These deals come out of nowhere. They are either extremely quick to come together or both sides had no leaks. Maybe both. This deal makes me nervous but AA has earned some benefit of the doubt
The Braves under AA are known for their stealth operating mode.
Tatis Jr 2.0? Lol
Did you miss the part where Harris was drafted?
@Yanks2
You obviously have no clue, hence the question mark.
Can we expect Vaughn Grissom to be extended too?
I like Grissom. Braves grow these Players on trees I think and they Blossom.
Probably not until they figure out what Swanson is doing long term.
No way. Grissom has too much to prove. The Braves know his defense isn’t worth extension consideration.
Grissom does look a little awkward in the field. He needs some work there.
Can’t see him as anything but a lf’er. His hands are really iffy. He doesn’t set up properly to receive throws. Doesn’t handle cut-offs at an acceptable level. He’s nowhere near ready defensively to play a decent ML infield position. Awkward, clumsy looking when he has to range for balls to both sides. Would have a lot more room for his defensive shortcomings as a lf’er. He’d need to show more power, but his early obp showing in the minors and sss ML results are encouraging. Only my opinions.
Grissom has played only eight games in the minors at 2B. I think he’s doing a pretty good job of adjusting. He’ll continue to improve.
Hope you’re right bham, but he’ll be doing that improving in the minors next season after a healthy Albies returns. He’s not close to being a competent ML infielder. Still think his best hope for a near term job in Atlanta is as a left fielder. Imo, those who insist he’s Swanson’s replacement next season are going to be very disappointed.
I agree he’ll probably get sent back down, unless he tears the cover off the ball between now and Ozzie’s return. If that happens, they could try him in left. In fact, they should be working him there some during workouts, just in case.
For what it’s worth, I could also see them playing Ozzie at DH on his return, keeping Grissom at 2B. They might be leery of throwing Ozzie onto the field right away.
The risk here isn’t the talent ceiling as I’m sure enough Braves staff assessed that to make the investment. The question is will the player have the same drive and work ethic he has displayed prior to this? It’s still a lot of money and some young men allow that to effect their work.
If the Yankees did the same with Judge in 2017, not only would he remain a Yankee beyond 2023, but at a lower cost from what they would have to pay him in November, assuming he wants to stay.
But if they did the same with Sanchez and Bird based on their rookie years, they’d have lost money. And what about Gleyber? He’s had a decent rebound, but he’s slumped lately and his numbers have deflated of late. Imagine if they had signed him to a 10-year deal after his age-22 season?! Many fans wanted them to. They did extend Severino, but then he got injured, although that deal can still pay off for them based on what he does in the postseason and next year (they’ll pick up the option).
They could have signed, or tried to sign, Judge to a longer-term extension even after 2017, but he went through a high-injury phase. The Yankees can afford to pay their players, so there is an argument to their approach. They don’t have to take the risk.
Braves are going to get 4 years out of Harris and then deal him. Projects as another Heyward situation
Teams will buy high and salivate over the team friendly contract and the Braves will get a nice return
As a Mets fan the idea the Mets somehow have a high ranked farm system now and the Braves are rock bottom is an utterly laughable proposition
Sure the Mets have a few high upside prospects like Alvarez but lack completely anything else
Meanwhile I look into the Braves system and they are loaded with talent at all levels. More prospects on one team in single-A than in the entire Mets system
And notice AA scours constantly the minor leagues looking for minor league contracts for depth.
Meanwhile the Mets do nothing. Now they’re going with RJ Alvarez because they were simply too lazy to look into minor league contracts. This has been their M.O. for years. Too lazy or too elitist or bearish to look into depth signings
The Mets had an excellent draft. Their system is not the best, but far from the worst. Also, they did a few “depth signings,” such as Lucchesi and Yamamoto who got hurt and Hunter who is about to return..
How do the Braves keep signing these players for such small amounts of money? They could’ve signed Gerrit Cole for 7 years 175m it looks like
I’ll say one thing about the Braves though. The type of shrewd GMing they do eventually comes back to bite you
They lost out on Freeman, probably Swanson bolts also
Yeah, it will win, but eventually the way you treat players gives you a bad reputation
They’re looking to get the only 4 good years of Harris and then sell high and get a nice return
I mean, they aren’t forcing these guys to take the deals. Seems like all of these guys like it in ATL and are willing to work with the team to get future security. I don’t think AA is blackmailing them into submission lol.
WS winner/contender, great city to live, new stadium, guaranteed money (avoiding arbitration/free agency filed with a lot unknowns), supportive fanbase/franchise that has invested a lot into development to fully support their players, and in many cases — hometown kids (Riley is from MS, Harris is from ATL) that plays on the emotional resonance the franchise has built through the brand. There’s a benefit to kids growing up watching the Superstation and cheering for Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz — then going out, becoming ballplayers and maybe playing with the same jersey. DeGrom is one of those that has stated his childhood team was ATL, which is why there were reports that if he reaches free agency, ATL should be considered a favorite, despite not being able to compete financially with Cohen’s wallet.
Swanson’s a hometown kid too, yet you keep claiming that the Braves aren’t going to re-sign him—because of Vaughn Grissom no less. If the Braves don’t come close to matching a foolish 40 mill plus multi year deal the Mets are likely to offer DeGrom, that “hometown team” fantasy take won’t matter. AA’s not going to pay DeGrom that kind of money w/his injury risk profile. No way. Color me stunned if DeGrom takes a significantly lower offer from the Braves because he used to watch them on WTBS.
You’re missing the point. Swanson has been incredibly inconsistent up until this year (his contract year). So what’s the player they’re getting for a long-term deal? The 2022 version or the previous 5 years that required a minor league stint to rework things? Freeman is the model of consistency and even they stuck to their figures, so they’ll definitely do that on someone like Swanson who is from ATL, but is incredibly inconsistent and the market may be driving his price up, knowing he’s cheaper than the other premium SS (Turner, Boegarts, Correa). DeGrom is just a fantasy. But there is a scenario where they replace Swanson with someone more expensive than Swanson, like extending Olson for more than Freeman’s reported offer.
I bet the Phillies make Swanson a huge offer and they move Stott to
2B and figure Harper will be back in the OF and so the immobile Castellanos can burn his fielder’s gloves. Just sayin’
Didn’t miss any “point” you think you’ve made. You’ve said numerous times that Swanson wasn’t going to be re-signed because Vaughn Grissom’s “presence” would cause the Braves to let Swanson go. I haven’t once said that Swanson would re-sign w/the Braves. I have disagreed w/your claims that Grissom would be the reason Swanson’s not re-signed. Of course it’s possible the Braves replace Swanson, but doubt that it will be a Boras client (Correa) who can’t stay healthy. Paying T. Turner (another Boras client) a 270 mill 10 year deal plus also seems like a Braves non-starter. Other FA options (Bogaerts) have much less defensive value than Dansby. They can probably keep Swanson for half of what Correa, Turner, or Bogaerts will receive. On your Swanson assessment “required a minor league stint to rework things”. That’s funny. Bringing up a short minor league stint from 2017 in an attempt to make your “point.” Swanson played in 144 ML games that season after playing in 38 in his debut year in 2016. Plenty of young players go back to the minors after a debut. to make adjustments. Swanson was in Gwinnett for a whopping ELEVEN GAMES in 2017. Appears that .you wrote him off years ago w/your “incredibly inconsistent” (lol) analysis of him. Is he “better than Turner, Correa, or Bogaerts?” In some ways, yes. Better glove than Turner or Bogarts. Much more able to answer the bell than Correa and his old man’s bad back. Should be much less expensive than any of the three, and. he’s improved every year. “Inconsistent”? Who isn’t?
I’ll add my 2 cents here…
The Braves may not say it (nor some of their fans) but they do and will regret not bringing back Freeman. Olson is not very good. It makes me wonder why people are so sure Olson will be productive during his 32-36 seasons. He strikes out a ton and doesn’t hit for average. His defense is overrated and not as good as people made it out to be. It is ridiculous to even say this, but even now Freeman is underrated. Wouldn’t surprise me if Freeman puts up better numbers now compared to what Olson might do in his mid-30s.
Anyways, the same way they will regret letting Freeman go, they will do the same with Swanson. I’ll later trade Albies and put Grissom at 2nd than let Swanson walk.
@BumgarnerequalsNLCS &Acunaisoverrated
Who let Freeman go? The Braves didn’t. You’re a Mets fan that trolls Braves articles. If you claim you’re a Braves fan and a baseball fan, you would know that Freddie was offered a contract, just like Acuna, Albies, Riley, Harris-they all had NO TROUBLE finding a pen and signing.
Freeman and Olson are two different players, and attempting to compare their hitting skills is ridiculous.
You compare them because they play the same position and the Braves replaced one with the other. Yes, they both have different hitting skills and Freeman has far better skills that age better than Olson’s. Freeman deserved whatever contract he wanted. Freeman’s skills is what this offense is lacking this year. Instead, they added another low average high strikeout guy when they didn’t need to. At least, people make themselves feel better knowing Olson is 4 years younger and assume he will be a top player at the position even though he has never been consistent in his career.
No one “deserves” anything. Freddie should have been on top of the negotiations at every stage. He could have signed instead of ruining his legacy and being a life long Brave. He was warned by Larry and didn’t heed the advice.
Olson is in a new league, seeing new pitchers that he hasn’t seen before. He is on track for 30+ home runs and over 100 rbi’s. The Braves are getting exactly what they signed him for. I will not judge him on one year in a new league seeing new pitchers. His on base percentage is only slightly down on his career marks, and he’s not going to be that guy that hits for average anyway. The majority of his stats are in line with his career averages.
Which are nothing special considering the Braves could have kept Freeman for relatively the same price but with far superior skill set. It will take time for me to get used to this, but I’m a firm believer that if Freeman was on this current Braves team, they w0uld be in first by now.
It may be so, but if Freddie loved the Braves so much then he should have made his negotiations his priority, rather than allowing others to interfere or muddy the waters. I love Freeman, but he’s only got himself to blame for not being a lifelong Brave.
We really don’t know what actually happened during negotiations/contract talks. I’ll put myself in Freeman’s shoes for a bit – for everything I’ve done for this team the last whatever years, while being underpaid, I would feel I deserve to wait for the team that gives me what I want even if it means leaving the team I want to stay with. Again, Olson’s contract was similar to what Freeman got. Only difference is Olson is younger. That would be important; however, Olson is inferior to Freeman in everything on the field other than raw power. There is no reason to believe Olson will somehow be better the next 8 years compared to Freeman’s next 6. Plus, lets not forget the farm they depleted when they didn’t have to. It was unnecessary and unfortunate this happened. With that being said, I don’t want the Braves to make the same mistake with Swanson. Of course, I’m not saying he is a superstar like Freeman, but Swanson is elite defensively and was as huge of a part to their WS run. With that being said, if Swanson does walk, if the Braves replace him with one of the top free agents, I wouldn’t complain at all. Otherwise, don’t let him walk. Move Grissom to a different position.
But we do know what happened during contract talks. Freeman was offered a contract by the Braves, he patently didn’t accept it. He was also warned by Braves legend and HOF’er in Larry Jones not to mess around, Freddie didn’t heed the advice, it’s very easy as I have said. If you love the club, you’re not thinking about every last nickel and dime, it is not like he or his family were going to be struggling to make ends meet in life. As for being “underpaid”, that’s just a nonsense.
Olson is not inferior to Freeman, Olson has made plenty of excellent defensive plays at 1st thus far for the Braves in his 1st season. He’s also on track for 30hr+ and 100 rbi’s in his 1st season, in a new ballpark, in a new league seeing lots of pitchers he’s never faced, I’ll take that every day of the week. Freddie or his agent made it about himself and money, if he wanted to be a Brave he should have made it about the team and the organisation and made sure he stayed an Atlanta Brave, he didn’t.
The Braves seem to be start hitting on this latest crop of rookies with Harris and Strider.
The nucleus for this team is locked in through 2027. Is it a gamble? Sure. This also creates a sustainable winning culture as well when both player and club come together for the common goal of winning.
The Braves have became one of the better ran franchises in recent history, along with the Dodgers, Astros, Cardinals, Blue Jays, Rays, and perhaps the Mets and Orioles if they keep pace.
No offense to fans of the Yankees, Padres, Phillies, or Brewers. I hear a lot of grief from these fan bases and those same fans make very good points about some of their teams transactions.
@TheStevilEmpire1 You’re right about the Braves being one of the better run franchises in recent history, but it also goes further back. They have 21 divisional titles in a division where they were almost consistently outspent by the Mets and Phillies. The Braves have always been amongst MLB’s best. Besides the Phillies stretch from 2007-2011, and few good years from the Mets, Nats and Marlins, the Braves have always been in the picture.
The history is certainly there. They did fall off for a few of those Frank Wren years. The Phillies of 2007 to 2011 did a similar move with their young talent back then. I think what went wrong with the Phillies back then was the over spending that happened subsequently after 2008. It was most unfortunate.
It’s weird, but I remember watching the 2011 NLCS when they lost to the Cardinals. When Ryan Howard got hurt leaving the batter’s box. I remember turning to my brother and saying it felt like the beginning ofthe end for them, and I don’t know why I felt that way. They had a good run though.
@stevil i’m a die hard cards fan and still get that first time watching feeling when i re-watch it, but that last out puts a dark cloud on what was a great game and peters dual. when i saw him try to bust down that line with his all on a hope we make an error, and then just fall to the ground. shortly after i went (bleep) i hope comes back but this isn’t good and unfortunately rh was never the say
Same feeling I had, you articulated that very well.
@TheStevilEmpire1 I felt the same exact way. I don’t think it was weird. The young talent was getting older without much help in the minors. It felt like the beginning of the end, and it was. A decade + later and the Phillies still haven’t reached the playoffs. That may end this year, but it’s been a rough stretch.
His defense alone makes this contract a steal
Love this deal for both parties
Camden- Nope, not even close. Heyward had/ has a fundamental flaw in his swing. He cups his top hand right before swinging. The Braves saw this and tried to get him to correct it. He would not and did not. Unfortunately it has left him without a job. Harris has all 5 tools and just his speed and defense alone is almost worth this contract amount. This will certainly make him attractive to other clubs though.
Happy for Harris. Seems to be a good kid with hard work ethics.
Was not impressed by Harris’s terrible baserunning in the 9th, but he will learn from that. Not a bad time to make that mistake.
Superstar Acuna comes up big for the Braves tonight though!
Must be nice to not have to pay the Dodger tax and get players for cheap
Dodgers got Freddie cheap.