December 9: The Cardinals made it official, announcing that they have signed Contreras to a five-year deal with a club option for 2028. Specifics of the option aren’t known, although Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch writes it’d push the total outlay north of $100MM if exercised.
December 7: The Cardinals have a deal that would bring Willson Contreras to St. Louis for five years and $87.5MM. The longtime Cub will stay in the NL Central but will suit up for their top rival.
St. Louis has been determined to find a starting catcher this offseason. President of baseball operations John Mozeliak has spoken of that being the team’s top priority on a number of occasions, and he told reporters on Monday he hoped to land their new backstop before the Winter Meetings wrapped up this afternoon. It appears the Cards will come through on that goal by nabbing the undisputed top free agent option at the position.
Contreras is one of the game’s more consistent offensive threats behind the plate. He’s been an average or better hitter in every season of his career. Over parts of seven MLB seasons, he carries a .256/.349/.459 line. While he’s never topped 25 home runs, he’s eclipsed the 20-homer mark on four separate occasions. With only a half-season of action in 2016 and the truncated schedule in 2020, Contreras only once failed to reach 20 longballs over a full year of playing time (back during a 2018 campaign that proved his worst year to date).
The three-time All-Star will bring that offensive ability to Busch Stadium, while he’ll join Nolan Arenado and Paul Goldschmidt as right-handed presences in the middle of the lineup. Contreras performed as well as he ever has during his platform year, putting up a .243/.349/.466 line with 22 homers across 487 trips to the plate in his final season as a Cub. Those slash stats are about par for the course for Contreras’ career, but they become increasingly valuable in a league where offense was down significantly. By measure of wRC+, his production was 32 percentage points above league average, the highest such mark of his career.
That offense is even rarer when compared to his positional peers. On the whole, catchers mustered just a .228/.295/.368 line this past season. Of the 29 backstops with 300+ plate appearances, Contreras trailed only Alejandro Kirk, Adley Rutschman and his younger brother William Contreras in on-base percentage. Only William Contreras, Cal Raleigh, J.T. Realmuto and Travis d’Arnaud had a higher slugging mark.
Contreras backs that strong production up with quality batted ball metrics. His average exit velocity has topped 90 MPH in each of the past two seasons, while he’s bested a 47% hard contact rate in each of the last three years. For reference, the league average marks in those respective categories are 88.4 MPH and and 35.8%. Contreras’ strikeout and walk marks typically hover around average, leading to a solid offensive profile built around his above-average power.
While there’s little question of his offensive track record, Contreras’ glove has been a key talking point for months. With the Cubs out of contention at this past trade deadline and showing little appetite to work out a long-term deal, the 30-year-old backstop was one of the summer’s prime trade candidates. Concerns about his ability to manage a pitching staff and call a game trickled out in the weeks leading up to August 2, and the Cubs wound up hanging onto him. That’s not to say there was no interest — reports later emerged the Astros were prepared to send starter José Urquidy to Chicago in a one-for-one swap before Houston ownership killed the deal — but trepidations about his game-calling acumen have lingered into the offseason.
That’s an unquantifiable concern, and it’s probably not as pressing an issue with Contreras having a few months to build rapport with pitchers before jumping into game action. Teams generally tend to be wary about drastic midseason shake-ups behind the plate, reasoning that it’s difficult for a new acquisition to learn pitcher tendencies in the midst of a pennant race. Houston skipper Dusty Baker, who encouraged ownership to kill the trade over the summer, told reporters this week he’d be much more interested in bringing Contreras in as a free agent over the offseason. To that end, Houston reportedly put forth a multi-year offer and was seemingly one of the favorites for his services, but it appears they’ll lose out on the bidding in the long run.
Contreras, it’s worth noting, fares well enough behind the plate in more measurable aspects. Statcast has pegged him as a roughly average pitch framer for the past three seasons, as he worked to overcome ghastly receiving marks from earlier in his career. Contreras boasts an excellent arm, having cut down 29.8% of attempted base-stealers in his career. That’s well north of this year’s 25% league average. Statcast credited him with the 11th-lowest pop time (average time to throw to second on a steal attempt) among 73 backstops with 10+ attempts in 2022.
St. Louis is clearly comfortable enough with Contreras’ overall defensive profile to make him their successor behind the plate to franchise icon Yadier Molina. They explored a number of trade and free agent possibilities, with reports tying them to the #2 free agent at the position (Christian Vázquez) and top trade candidates Sean Murphy and Danny Jansen. In the end, they have held off on dealing away young talent for a catcher and have gone to the top of the market in free agency. Contreras will step in as their #1 backstop, relegating Andrew Knizner to reserve duty and allowing the team to keep prospect Iván Herrera in Triple-A.
At the start of the offseason, MLBTR predicted he’d land a four-year, $84MM deal, with this $87.5MM deal now becoming one of the largest free agent contracts in franchise history. The Cardinals have only previously topped $80MM for a free agent on three occasions, adding Matt Holliday for $120MM and going right around $80MM for both Mike Leake and Dexter Fowler. As noted by Jeff Jones of the Belleville News-Democrat, this is the largest guarantee they’ve given to a free agent who hadn’t previously played for the team.
The Cardinals will also have to surrender a draft choice. Contreras declined a qualifying offer from the Cubs at the start of the offseason, tying him to draft compensation. St. Louis neither received revenue sharing payments nor surpassed the luxury tax threshold in 2022. They’re therefore subject to standard penalties for signing another team’s qualified free agent — the surrender of their second-highest pick in the 2023 draft and $500K in international signing bonus space.
The Cubs, meanwhile, will recoup a pick between Competitive Balance Round B and the third round in next year’s draft. That typically checks in around 75th overall. It’ll be small consolation to a fanbase disappointed to see a fan favorite depart, particularly to join their most hated rival. Contreras’ departure has long seemed an inevitability given the team’s lack of desire at making a longer-term commitment. Chicago will move forward with Yan Gomes and potentially an outside acquisition behind the dish, the latest example of the team closing the book on its 2016 curse-breaking club. Starter Kyle Hendricks, who’s under contract for one more season, is the sole remaining player from that team.
Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic first reported that the Cardinals were closing in on a deal. Jon Heyman of The New York Post first floated the five-year structure. Jon Morosi of MLB Network first had the sides in agreement. Jesse Rogers of ESPN first had the $87.5MM guarantee.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Berkner
Yesss
Iaplayer
NOOOO!
Samuel
Came on here looking for DonOsbourne.
Smarty, knowledgeable baseball and Cardinals fan.
I feel so sorry for him,.
Mo has always been a disaster. With Yadi gone……
Wagner>Cobb
Mo brought them their only elite players: Goldschmidt and Arenado. He’s lost some (Alcantara and Gallen) but no GM is perfect.
Samuel
Wagner>Cobb;
Mo has changed the way that team plays baseball.
How many playoff series have they won since he took over?
barkinghumans77
I am happier doing this than I would have been meeting the A’s asking price. Some prospects may still be traded but that should be for an ace
Wagner>Cobb
Their primary issue in the playoffs has been a lack of offense. Defense hasn’t been their issue (first game vs Philly aside).
Samuel
Wagner>Cobb;
How could their primary problem be offense when they have 2 elite players in Goldschmidt and Arenado?
Look – I don’t care. No longer a Cardinals fan since shortly after Mo took charge (by the way, they’ve won one playoff series since he took over in 2017….and that was the the last guys team).
Teams don’t win anything “plugging holes”. Plug up one, others open up. If they [lay this guy at C strong Cardinals pitching is about to be a thing of the past.
Wagner>Cobb
Because they haven’t hit in the playoffs the last two years? Lineup lacks depth? Yes they have two stars, but having two stars doesn’t mean the lineup is full developed. You can have stars and still have a weak lineup overall. These things are non-contradictory.
Holy Cow!
Samuel changes teams like he changes his underwear…once every year or two.
Chris2215
Dude they’ve won 2 pennants and a world series on Mo’s watch…..what are you talking about
richardc
Two men do not make a lineup
iH8PaperStraws
That’s when LaRussa was making the player decisions and the pennant was still almost all his players
Lanidrac
Let’s see, Mozeliak took over in 2008, and the Cardinals have won 8 playoff series since then, including a Championship and 2 Pennants. That’s pretty good.
Lanidrac
He became GM in 2008. 2017 was just when he was promoted to President of Baseball Ops.
Besides, making the playoffs for 4 straight years is still really impressive despite only winning 1 playoff series in that time. Half the teams in MLB would love to have that kind of recent success.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
The one thing I love about the Cards, is my buddy (and brother) Mo. All we need to do is find another musketeer named Larry. (you’ll never find someone named “Shemp”, who the heck names their kid Shemp?)
17dizzy
With a little more help at the trading deadline from Mo —-the Cards could have had multiple NL Penants. Just by adding obtain just one more impact player
outhaus33
First off they made it to the NLCS IN 2019 so point one is wrong. 2nd MO has been GM/President of Baseball Ops since 2007 so point 2 is also wrong. Not particularly a Mo fan Walt Jocketty was loads better but obviously you’ve never been a true Cards fan so you won’t be missed
DesertRedbird
Mo’s been with the team as GM and then Pres. of Baseball Ops since 2007.
Samuel
outhaus33;
I wrote that the Cardinals won one playoff series since Mo took over.
Do you have any idea how out of balance that team is? They were easily the worst team that make the playoffs in 2023.
I know it’s early in the offseason, but….
After this signing I can see both the Brewers and Cubs competing for the NL Central title in 2023 – especially if they make a few measured moves. With what the Cubs are doing in developing their pitchers, if they get any one of the remaining SS’s I believe they can beat out the Cardinals.
Mattimeo09
Samuel if it’s so easy for you to cut ties with a team, you were never a true fan in the first place.
Rooting for multiple teams is fine. Flip-flopping your favorite teams makes you a bandwagon/fair-weather fan.
asdfgh
Actually a few including a World Series in 2011 name how many have done that as well as how many consecutive winning seasons!!! Sure we haven’t won some but there’s a variety of factors the players the coaching MO has provided a lot of depth and is smart and look at what we have in youth as well as who swung deals for Holliday, Goldy, Arenado – MO.
Lanidrac
While there were others that were a lot better, the 2022 Cardinals were still clearly better than the Phillies, Padres, and Guardians among playoff teams at the very least. They just happened to lose 2 straight games to an underdog, as can easily happen in the playoffs.
Meanwhile, the Cubs are getting better but are still nowhere close to competing for the division in 2023, while the Brewers are pushing up against major budget issues.
ArchRivals
Mozeliak has been the GM of the Cardinals since 2007, not 2017.
DonOsbourne
I’m here Sam,
Yes, I was disappointed when I heard the news. But don’t feel sorry for me. I have taken some time to consider and have decided to choose optimism. It was really the years that upset me, but oh well. Contreras was always a gutsy, gritty opponent that I hated to see come to the plate. If he brings that same fire and willingness to work and improve then I’ll be happy. We have smart coaches, veteran pitchers, and excellent leaders in the clubhouse. If Contreras buys in, he has the talent to help us win and that’s what it’s all about. No crying in baseball.
This signing means we still have some trade chips available to make another move. But there is no more pressure to get something done. We can wait out the market and make a deal on our terms.
DCartrow
Like he changes underwear?
Are you saying his allegiance is rather brief?
GarryHarris
You mean Stooge, not Musketeer.
GarryHarris
A Shemp is a body double. Work with that maybe.
BStrowman
The cubs pitching was really good last year with Contreras as the receiver.
The stros wanted him. Click at least.
I don’t know that this is warranted.
BStrowman
Samuel isn’t a fan of teams in the classic sense. He’s a fan of how organizations are ran.
That’s what I’ve gathered anyways. He may have a team that he’s a classic “fan” of but that’s a question for the man himself.
Win Cor
Great day for the Cardinals! .808 OPS and .349 OBP coming to town. Goldy and Nado are protected.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
@CodyBellingersWeedDispenser, you keep tabs on Samuels’ drawer changes? LOL, you need a better hobby dude…
Holy Cow!
You have a point, Curly. You’re pretty smart for an imbecile.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
I resemble that remark, I’m a victim of circumstance, nyuck, nyuck
Mattimeo09
A wise guy eh?
cadagan
Why i oughta
IndianRye
The Cubbies and Cardinals rivalry just isn’t like it used to be…
Mattimeo09
I think you can say that about every rivalry in baseball
Deadguy
Oh good lord…. that’s half a catcher for 2 years and a DH for 3… we already got Yepez to DH. MAN, shoulda put those chips in for Murphy!
Lanidrac
Even if he is mostly a DH for the last 3 years, that just provides room for Hererra to take over at catcher in 2 years.
wgfinley
A DH that’s never got 25 HRs, good luck with that.
Lanidrac
You don’t necessarily need to hit 25 HRs a year to be a good hitter.
Dad
Prospects are traded for proven major league pitchers if you’re running your team right!
#1WhiteSoxFan
Cubs’ worst nightmare!
Ha!
ChrisEnvy76
LOL. No, it isn’t.
tstats
Yeah cmon they are now paying Cody 12.5 million next year
RobM
It’s an interesting move from a very smart organization. Contreras has a good bat for a catcher, but his framing skills are not considered great. Replacing a great defensive catcher with a lesser one is an interesting choice, yet this is the Cards. Maybe they’re already planning for the need for a strong-armed catcher because of the anticipated increase in the running game next year.
Francys01
Well, I have to say welcome to the Cardinals. I wanted the Cards to sign Christian Vazquez, but Contreras is an excellent catcher. I would like now the Cardinals to sign Michael Brantley, he could play some left field and be a DH. Also, adding another starting pitcher would be good someone like Corey Kluber now that Jose Quintana signed with the Mets. I expect Kluber to have a better season next year because he has been a good starting pitcher.
RobM
Kluber should greatly benefit from the Cards defense.
Francys01
Yes, he could fit perfectly in the Cardinals rotation. But, I think that he could sign very soon with the super team the Dodgers because they have been very quiet. I believe the Dodgers will sign at least two starting pitchers.
Deadguy
While Brantley would be nice, that would prompt trading away someone from our already crowded Outfield mix? Was hoping Quintana would resign… don’t think Mozeliak is going to target pitching just like last year and the year before it and trade at the deadline if they need a starter?
Francys01
Mozeliak said that he was hoping to add a catcher via trade or free agency and we got one. He also said that he was looking to add a left handed bat and possibly adding another starting pitcher. I think they could sign a reliever too. Yes, I wanted Quintana back too with the Cardinals, but he decided to sign with the Mets. Good luck to him with his new team.
Jarrod Vanatta
I was sad about the Quintana signing…. in my opinion the Cards should have made him a priority for signing over Waino. Paying $17.5 mil for a 41 yr old SP that will probably be a #5 SP this year is a little bit of a stretch. I don’t know how they couldn’t beat a 2 yr $26mil deal by the Mets for Quintana. Then they could have signed Kluber as a #5 and paid him maybe a little less than his last year salary ($13 mil). Maybe you could have gotten him for $10 mil, or offered Waino $10 mil for our #5.
paulk-2
There has been a lot of deals in the past we question on how the Cardinals couldn’t have matched those offers or done better,
God Help Us All
Not an excellent catcher. You’ll see soon enough.
Win Cor
Not excellent but good. Especially the last 3 years behind the plate which have seen him grow as a fielder. to above average…his first 4 years were horrendous, But…he can hit and his splits are good too.
Kayrall
stings
Holy Cow!
Yes, this feels strange, but good for Willson. I hope doesn’t haunt the Cubs.
For the Cardinals’ sake, may this be Dexter Fowler 2.0 and that will make it even for Heyward.
Holy Cow!
Five years! Really good for Willson!…wait Heyman is saying that.
Holy Cow!
If it’s five years, $90 million?
Holy Cow!
Oh, I went over a couple million. Barker says I lose.
Win Cor
Less $87.5M…Solid deal
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
@CodyBellingers, more chuckles, I cringed the day that the Cards signed Dexter Fowlup, never understood it. However, the Cubs got more mileage out of Heyward, so please, no voodoo on Contreras…
Deadguy
I feel like Mel Gibson in Cast Away
AWW WILSON, NO WILSON, NOOOOO WILSON, NOOOOOOOOO!
Wagner>Cobb
Tom Hanks
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
An honest mistake @Hippy, Gibson was the photo for the DUI next to Nick Nolte…
Deadguy
Yeah obviously haven’t had my coffee yet, besides this world is more like Mad Max anyways lol
Wagner>Cobb
Yeah, not trying to give you a hard time. Mistakes happen, no big deal.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
True @Hippy, but Wilson has balls…
HalosHeavenJJ
Nice. Perfect fit and not the Astros.
fre5hwind
Future Molina?
roenick99
He needs to learn how to spit on umpires and use all the sticky stuff on his chest protector and he should be spot on.
asdfgh
Offense will produce pop as well as Wilson you are shading way to heavily on how to handle a pitching staff. He did fine to win it all with the cubs and to be Frank your pitchers suck. Don’t blame all the pitching woes on Wilson, a lot of it is the talent you bring in. Have fun watching him succeed as a Cardinal he’s fired up as well as will love the team culture.
asdfgh
Hey Josh good to see a cubs fan admire his talent instead of trashing him. Sad to say the cubs ownership hurt this rivalry by getting rid of the core that won the WS. Feel bad for you guys which is why I don’t complain about the cardinals ownership. Consistently winning should be every owners goal for us the fans. He’s a great talent and sounds fired up as well as love that he’s taking over for Yadier someone he admired and was close with and who know maybe Yadier gives him some lessons on the defensive side.
asdfgh
The A’s are driving up the asking price probably asking for some of our untouchables as I don’t want to let go of O’Neil he’s doing a lot of different training to help prevent injuries if he can hit 25-35 HRs a year. Also not l tying go of Wynn or Walker.
cards2016
Trading either Wynn or Walker I would ask for a Cy Young level arm.
asdfgh
Let’s be Frank terrible people in every fan base I actually love the drive to Chicago and see a cards cubs game at wrigley when the cubs actually field a good team again
Dumpster Divin Theo
Uh oh looks like small town timey guy is triggered. What’s this Yadi mutual appreciation you speak of? Orange clad circle yurk doesn’t count
Oldguy58
Molina always the smartest guy on the field. Cardinal pitchers didn’t have to cheat because when Molina threw the ball back to them he was the one putting the sticky stuff on the ball from his chest protector. No doubt about that.
Oldguy58
Willson has a great arm
Cardinal fans won’t be disappointed in him
flamingbagofpoop
Willson*
gbs42
No one is a future Molina.
fre5hwind
True
Astros2017&22Champs
He meant alfred molina.
.
I thought he meant Bengie Molina
fre5hwind
Don’t start a clan this time that will spam me.
.
So what exactly am I allowed or not allowed to say???
.
Any poster that is active on here has that sort of thing happen from time to time…You have said it to me at least 2 other times already.
SonnySteele
Or maybe Mo Leena. 😉
fre5hwind
All people named “Molina” you will not say including Jose Molina.
Bryzzo2016
Hahaha, he is the anti Molina. Everything that made Yadi great is exactly everything that Willy is not. He’s gonna drive STL fans nuts. Murphy was the play for the Cards and I think the entire NL Central is glad the Cards didn’t get him. There’s a reason the Cubs didn’t offer this dude any type of contract. They almost didn’t even give him the QO in fear he might accept it. Horrible pitch framer, horrible defensively and has no clue how to handle a pitching staff. Again, the polar opposite of Yadi. Good luck! Lol
alwaysgo4two
You pretty much nailed it….he’s oppo Yady.
barkinghumans77
We just need him to be good enough until Ivan Herrera is ready.
cards2016
Rumor said they offered 5+ years…why?!? Herrera is gonna be ready in Contreras 2nd year and you don’t have to pay a DH 20m+ per year for 3 years+.
Holy Cow!
You underestimate Willson. He’s not that bad defensively and may even look better next season if running games increase. He can still catch 90 games and DH 45, too.
He may need a neck tattoo, though.
cards2016
Not bad defensively is being generous. He’s a bottom 5 defensive catcher in MLB.
Bryzzo2016
This will be Dexter Fowler 2.0 for STL. Mo dropped the ball on this one ESPECIALLY if it is indeed a 4/5 year deal… WOW! Shoulda re-signed Quintana and traded for Sean Murphy. I think every other team in the NL Central is pulling for Willy to get his bag from STL.
Four4fore
Because of the DH his bat should be useful if Herrera passes him on the depth chart at catcher. But there also Yepez when you look at DH.
Holy Cow!
Hey, man. You stole my Fowler 2.0.
Bryzzo2016
Indeed I did! Perfect comp, well done (great handle BTW)
Win Cor
Absurdity .808 OPS .349 OBP. Best hitting catcher pretty much. Young. Pop up time and pick offs in top 10% of the MLB. His DRS have improved steadily.
Molina is the best fielder in the history of the game, pretty much. No comparison by anybody not even Pudge.
So, go sit on the couch and fan yourself a little, 5 Year $87.5 M… excellent deal. Should be fun to watch the rivalry especially in London 2023
CarverAndrews
I am old school when it comes to catchers and think that they are the backbone of the team…also underpaid and undervalued by most. A Yadi is basically impossible to replace, but this is a strange move for the Cards IMHO to head in the other direction. Pitching and defense and fundamentals are at the core, and a primary catcher needs to be a team leader / pitcher-whisperer / game manager and plus defender first and foremost. The bat is the gravy. Give me a Martin Maldonaldo that can’t hit a lick over a good hitter any day, as the influence over the rest of the team in so many areas is more crucial than their role as a hitter.
That being said, I don’t think that Willson is as bad as some say. Arm and pop times are solid, and he is an OK receiver that has gotten better over time. Hopefully they work his tail off to improve the rest…if he continues to improve then the Cards might end up happy with this deal in the long run. But surely a really sound young catcher is a better fit for the way that the Cards have run their organization for years.
Oldguy58
You couldn’t be any more wrong. Willson is the best choice from the available catchers and that includes the over hyped Murphy. What do you need a pitch framer for when it seems like most umpires flip a coin and don’t call a ball a ball or a strike a strike. Let’s just go to an electronic strike zone now
DefensiveIndifference
I haven’t seen a no-trade clause
Wagner>Cobb
Yepez and other prospects are tradeable for a TOR starter at any point now. Can realistically upgrade on Quintana that way.
Deadguy
Herrera isn’t a defensive catcher either
mpwr2
They wanted to trade for Murphy. Evidently, the asking price was too high.
They were compeiting with about 12 other teams for Murphy. They were competing with one or two other teams for Contreras.
Wagner>Cobb
Defense is his primary calling card.
CarverAndrews
Your opinion – no problem. I will say this…I was a catcher for close to forty years before I finally hung up the tools of ignorance, and playing the game for that long leads to certain perspectives that adjust over the years. Framing metrics are not the biggest deal for me at all, but the robo-ump argument is also kinda’ silly. There is just so much about what a good to great catcher will do for the ability for a team to compete that there are no metrics available to measure them.
First Law of Baseball: Catchers are always the smartest (and best-looking) players on the team.
iH8PaperStraws
But still Fowler was the best player on the team for two years
Lanidrac
Read the article again. His pitch framing has greatly improved, and he has an above-average arm.
His blocking ability is strangely not mentioned, though. Anyone know how good he is in that area?
Wagner>Cobb
I was saying defense is Herrera’s primary calling card, not Contreras.
Lanidrac
But it’s not like Quintana is much of an upgrade over the 5+ starters the Cardinals already have. It wouldn’t be worth spending their limited funds on him just to push Matz to the bullpen.
Wagner>Cobb
Lanldrac: I would’ve been cool with Quintana on those conditions as well as depth for next year’s rotation which only has Matz coming back (I think?).
Jarrod Vanatta
No way this is a Fowler 2.0…. Fowler had one good season and was overpaid as a top tier OF. Contrera has had multiple good seasons, been consistent and is being paid a little bit less per year than Grandal so the 4th highest paid catcher. It really isn’t even comparable. The only thing I hope for is that there are some options in yr 3-4 just in case he doesn’t work out and Herrera ends up being the future catcher.
mil
not sure how you would know they “almost” didnt over him a QO. Are you employed by the Cubs? And just to be clear, Chicago doesnt sign any of their stars, Bryant? Rizzo? Baez?
differentbears
Best hitting catcher? Will Smith and his career .856 OPS would like a word.
Lanidrac
They also have Hudson for 2024, as well as prospects like Thompson and Liberatore.
Anyway, filling out the 2024 rotation is a problem for next offseason.
Win Cor
Fire! Fire! Fire! Wrong. Must be a Cubbie fan. In his first few years he has pretty bad. The last 3 have been above average 2 years ago +6 DRS. He has a cannon for an arm, picks off people at a 30% clip. and hits as good or better than Realmuto. Great acquisition that resolves both Pujols void and the protection of Goldy and Nado.. His splits are very solid too. Might as well be a left handed hitter.
Wagner>Cobb
Yeah, slim pickings after this year. I could see them extending Montgomery, Mikolas, and/or Flaherty if his market bounces the Cardinals’ way. If Flaherty has a tremendous bounce back year, he is likely gone too. I think Thompson ends up in the pen.
Next year’s rotation could very well be: Mikolas, Montgomery, Hudson, Matz, Liberatore. Significant resources will need to be directed here, which is why it was good for them to not blow all their prospects on Murphy.
FrontOfficeStan
Flaherty will not be coming back no matter what.
Iaplayer
He will never be a Molina
Win Cor
Nobody is
Oldguy58
Because he doesn’t spray sticky stuff on his chest protector to help his pitchers cheat?
Win Cor
Molina was great
Win Cor
New era
CaptainJudge99
Smh
Josh5890
Goodbye Wilson. Chicago will always love you.
Thomas E Snyder
What about Willson?
Joe says...
Willlsonnn!!!!
Dumpster Divin Theo
Forrestt Gump says he’s sorry. Sorry!! Willson!!
btharveyku08
Nooooo
yadi4
If true, then there goes any chance of Mo spending for an impact bat.
Oldguy58
Contreras also hits
yadi4
He is no impact bat.
We needed a catcher AND an impact bat, not just a catcher that hit better than our last catcher. This is just Mo saying, “Look, I increased payroll like I said.”
Now he closes up shop and waits for next season. This is not enough, even if. Walker’s numbers transfer to the major leagues.
Win Cor
Are you serious??? LOL!
Lanidrac
Besides, there should still be room in the budget for another decent offensive upgrade. As it is, having your #3-6 hitters be some combination of Goldschmidt, Arenado, O’Neill, and Contreras is excellent.
yadi4
Spending more is just not in Mo’s DNA. He is done. Might get some low hanging fruit for the bullpen, but this is what he always does. Does just enough to give us a chance to get to the playoffs. But not enough to win it all. At least not for the last decade.
EliMorganFanClub
Let’s go!
This one belongs to the Reds
“Closing in”.
Yankee Clipper
True my friend, but it’s Rosenthal, whose definitely got the pulse. If this were Heyman we might as well flip a coin, roll some dice, and consult a medium.
LordD99
Let’s be fair. Maybe the Giants did sign a player named Arson Judge!
This one belongs to the Reds
I hear he’s a hot commodity!
Holy Cow!
I can’t believe Heyman went to Medill. What did he learn there?
SanDiegoSuperDissapointingPadres
Yadi 2.0, great fit!
waterdog311
Anti Yadi 1.0
Capi
More like opposite of Yadi
belkiolle
He’s not anything close to Yadi. He’s been the 2nd worst defensive catcher in baseball since 2018. He’s terrible behind the plate and only 18% better than league average with the bat. This isn’t exactly Mike Piazza they’re trying to sign.
Mo needs to forget this nonsense and make the trade for Murphy.
chefly1
No. He’s the opposite of Yadi. Wish we got a catcher and not a DH
barkinghumans77
I believe in Ivan Herrera. He should be the eventual starting catcher. Contreras is a good stopgap
Oldguy58
Five year stop gap?
Lanidrac
They can eventually split time at C with Contreras also spending time at DH.
FrontOfficeStan
Nobody expects Contreras to be a full time catcher at the end of this contract.
Moonlight Graham
That really puts a cramp in my plan for the Jays to swap a catcher for a lefty bat from St. Louis.
TheRickestRick
The Jays will get one of the guys for Arizona.
30 Parks
… great name, Archibald.
baseballpun
Dammit. Wanted Murphy.
Maybe they’ll trade for Pablo Lopez instead.
kremer
I don’t disagree but look at Murphy’s number…fulltime catcher for 2 seasons and his bat isn’t what you would think based on what we are hearing. I think he is better defensively for sure but for a team that need LH offense dealing a player like gorman would be tough (not to say we wouldn’t for, as you suggested, a pitcher but I think that makes way more sense since the type of pitcher we would look for ins’t on the FA market).
ARC 2
Did you look at the lineup Murphy was batting in? Murphy was the A’s best hitter full of utility players and AAAA players. Pitchers were pitching around Murphy every at bat. That was the worse lineup in the last 5 decades for the A’s.
ruff kuntry
He hits in one of the most pitcher friendly ballparks half of the games in a season.
belkiolle
Murphy has a career 116 wRC+ and is on the upswing at age 26.. Contreras has a career 118 wRC+ and is on the decline at 31. If you think Contreras is a good offensive catcher then so is Murphy. The difference is Murphy is one of the top 2 or 3 defensive catchers in the game while Contreras is the 2nd worst defensive catcher in baseball since 2018.
TB12#8N2023
Yuck… Murphy would of been better the next 3 years less AAV. Plus he played for that dump of a city Chicago
Get Off My Mound
Have you ever actually been to Chicago?
This one belongs to the Reds
Love the screen name lol
moghopper
Have you ever read by the light of a St Louis Dumpster fire?
Brock Louis
You can’t be blamed for your low IQ or low breeding, you are after all from St. Louis.
kremer
sure less AAV but also less bat for a team in need of offense…go check last years WC series…we need more offense. And he didn’t cost any of our yound players – just our 2nd draft pick
belkiolle
Murphy is just as good offensively as Contreras.
oaklandfan22
Murphy is better offensively.
admiral hopppaaa
Solid, objective analysis
Rocker49
Thank the Lord!!! Astros did not need this guy one bit.
Mr_KLC
Agree. I would rather that they focus on Benintendi. Much better corner outfield defense.
This one belongs to the Reds
He’s going home to Cincinnati.
astromariner
Benintendi would fit in nicely. Or if they really want to make a splash, Nimmo.
This one belongs to the Reds
Would love both since the outfield is sparse at the moment but too much to ask for their payroll. I get the feeling Nimmo especially is going to cost.
Joe It All
I’d love both but with how expensive Nimmo will be I would pivot to bringing Benintendi and Conforto to Cincinnati. Sign them both to 3 year deals since there is no payroll commitments after next year. Outfield is the main area the Reds haven’t been able to develop. We could be looking at a nice team in a couple years with De La Cruz and Marte making the jump. It’s the best move Cincinnati could make but alas I’m sure they won’t.
This one belongs to the Reds
I’d be good with that. You know both are looking to re-establish themselves too so there is incentive for them to perform well.
cards2016
I wish cardinals don’t get him either unless it’s $15m AAV or less. Don’t need another DH bat.
Digdugler
Jays in shambles 🙁
bighiggy
They could honestly take Contreras and one of the blue hays catchers. Contreras can dh sometimes and knizer could be added to a package for other improvements
gbs42
Knizner can’t have much trade value.
bighiggy
You are very right, but he at least has a sliver lol. A throw in if you want lol
fearthecub
Liked Willson as a Cub. Didn’t want the team to overpay for him, though. Seemed like he wanted out of Chicago near the end, or was at least peeved with the front office enough to want revenge.
Losing him to St. Louis stings more than pretty much any other team would have. Hopefully this helps the Cubs land Jansen or Murphy via trade.
This one belongs to the Reds
He definitely left the Cubs on a bad note but with management not the fans who he seemed to appreciate. Good guy.
Catuli Carl
I am dead inside.
mrperkins
Cardinals fan with definite reservations about this. Would have preferred Narvaez on a one year deal and Harerra starting in 2024. If he got 4 years I may vomit.
cards2016
Same. I have little hope for Contreras long term. With his lackluster defensive skills it’s a huge overpay for a home run hitter that you can get for cheaper elsewhere.
sgtschultz
Cheaper? Are you even paying attention to the market?
Catuli Carl
He got 5 <3
Holy Cow!
We may need a couple priests to stop the vomiting.
angt222
STL getting the best catcher on the market to replace a future HOFer in Molina.. great job. Honestly saw him going to Boston or Houston.
belkiolle
Murphy is the best catcher on the market. Kirk and Jansen are both available and both are better than Contreras.
Wagner>Cobb
All way more expensive too. The Cardinals have other needs to address over the next two years.
Lanidrac
Only in talent. Their actual salaries are much cheaper.
Wagner>Cobb
Correct.
cubfanforever
Cub fan here. I believe it was a big mistake not to extend Contreras He will be the next Cub killer, just like Pujols, Votto, Braun, etc.
Bryzzo2016
Hahaha… no. There’s a reason the Cubs didn’t offer him a contract, not even a low ball offer. They know him better than anyone. Horrible pitch framer, horrible defensively and no clue how to handle a pitching staff. Basically the opposite of Yadi. He’s gonna drive STL fans crazy. Lol
mike127
Bryzzo—if were any of the above things you mention there is no way that he would have been in the Cubs organization for FOURTEEN season, been an all star, been one of the “better” catchers in the game for a handful of years.
There is also no way that ANY team in baseball would want him either.
And you are correct on one thing—-he is the opposite of Yadi on—he flat out hustles on every hit ball and doesn’t have a home to first hustle rate that is measured by a sundial. Heck, Willson nearly snapped his ankle at the Field of Dreams game and he kept trying to play…and surely it contributed to a poor last month and a half.
If he is as bad as you imply he is—he wouldn’t be anywhere near the pro level and not a single team would be offering him anything above league minimum.
Seems like you have a defense mechanism to a player from your team going to a rival. Would love to see your anti-Willson posts during the competitive Cubs years of 16-20.
belkiolle
The 2016-2020 years when Contreras was the 2nd worst defensive catcher in baseball? Yeah. Pick a stat. Pick a metric. He ranks at the bottom defensively.
He’s had two really good years offensively in his 7 year career.. Amazing they both occurred in contract years (one before his first arb year) and last year before free agency.
He’s hit .like .190 with 4 HRs total at Busch 3 over his career. This is going to suck for the Cardinals if it ends up happening.
Bryzzo2016
Yep, this is like Dexter Fowler 2.0 for STL
Bryzzo2016
Dexter Fowler 2.0 for STL. In spite of needing a catcher and Contreras desperately wanting to stay with the Cubs, they still didn’t even offer him a low ball deal. Nothing.
I hope Willy fleeces the Cards, get your money Contreras. The Cards definitely shoulda traded for Murphy and re-signed Quintana.
This one belongs to the Reds
Ouch.
SimbaHOF2019
He has strong pop time and a very strong arm. 2 things that will be important with the new bases, pitching throw over rules and decreased shift..
Wagner>Cobb
Elite pop time and rate of throwing out runners. All the naysayers about his defense are ignoring those defensive metrics.
Lanidrac
He’s been a decent pitch framer for the last 3 years and has an above-average arm. That’s at the very least not horrible defense.
themed
Nope gonna love him
themed
Nope
themed
No that’s what the cubs do SUCK
bassrun
I like the bat, but I’m concerned about defense.
Dogbone
As a Cub fan, the slams on Willsons defense are way overdone. His pitch framing is average, it’s not going to hurt you. His blocking and throwing are very good. Sometimes his attitude is his best friend or can be his worst enemy.
cubfanforever
Dogbone, I totally agree. He has a great arm, solid at throwing out base stealers and very good on the back pick play. His attitude is what every team needs, he’s passionate, and he wears it on his sleeve. Contreras should still be a Cub. Cardinal fans will grow to love the guy.
belkiolle
He’s ranked at the very bottom in every defensive stat and metric you can name since he debuted including passed balls (blocking) and SBs allowed (throwing). He’s next to last to Salvy Perez in framing over that time frame.. The defensive misgivings are well founded. As a catcher he’s a good DH.
fearthecub
Also, it’s not just his defense, but his game calling and handling of the staff. Those things are hard to quantify, and probably overblown. However, let’s not forget that Contreras missed nearly the entire month of September, and the Cubs had their best month of the season as a team – both in terms of W/L record and pitching. And most of those pitchers were unproven rookies or journeymen.
Lanidrac
You can’t judge by his career marks when he’s obviously improved a lot on defense over the years.
Yankee Clipper
Additionally, if the automated strike zone comes to pass, he immediately catapults up the catchers’ rankings because his lack of framing, or whatever, becomes a non-issue.
Lanidrac
That’s still not going to be ready until at least after this contract expires, if MLB even decides to make the switch even when the technology is ready.
brodie-bruce
@yc long time no talk btw grats on getting judge back, for any other team it would of been a overpay imo, but for nyy it’s a good deal because he seems to be the heart and soul of that team and even in the bad years of his contract i consider it back pay for the years he was paid under what he was worth.
with that said i’m not to happy with this move pitching and d have always been a strength of the cards. tbh i wanted a defensive c and find off some where else. just because i dislike the move of what they say of his attitude, passion, and work ethic i may come to like him. tbh i hope willson proves me wrong and turns out to be a great c for the next few years while ivan matures at the position
Yankee Clipper
Thanks Brodie! I appreciate it brother!
And, I agree. Although I am a fan of Contreras for the reasons you stated I also wrote how I was surprised the Cards went in this direction versus getting either Murphy or some combo of Narvaez/Vazquez and Swanson, which seems like it may have addressed a few more needs and stayed with the defensive catching posture that has served STL so well for so long.
I’ll be honest, after seeing Trevino catch every game, my appreciation for defensive catching has gone up even more. I tend to agree with you whereas if I had my choice, and seeing the difference Trevino has made, I’d take the defensive catcher. I think that’s why the Astros made the choice they did as well with Maldy.
Hopefully they’re not done yet, my friend. There are still moves to be made and a long offseason ahead. I don’t envision the Cards stopping here.
Just a question: is it possible that they actually picked up Contreras as a DH and 50/50 split at C? I wouldn’t think so, but I don’t know the Cards as well as you do either.
brodie-bruce
@yc tbh it doesn’t make much sense to have him be a dh when we have better options on the roster and on the farm. tbh i would of gave one of them the chance to dh and reassess at the deadline. when it comes to the ss market not to hyped about any of the big 4 because of length and cost especially paying nolan and goldy. tbh what has made the cards so successful the last 20 years is there wise use of assets, thou as fan it does get frustrating at times not pulling the trigger for “win now” moves. then again that’s why i build stuff for a living and not running a pro team. i believe the most successful franchise build for the now and future and allow fans to watch meaningful bb in aug & sep, and when it comes to playoffs it’s a crapshoot because it seems rare that the best team in the regular season wins it all
stroh
As an Astros fan, I had little if any desire for this guy to come to the Astros. Need an outfielder, not a catcher.
RedLegJason
One of the best catchers in the game doesn’t choose fan’s favorite team
Said fan: “Well I didn’t want him anyway!”
Classic.
Samuel
Randomguy7654;
LOL
He’s hardly one of the best catchers in the game.
stroh
If you saw some of my posts previously I’ve been consistent. And many Astros fans feel the same way. We don’t need a catcher. Maldonado is excellent with our pitching staff and Korey Lee who is a #1 draft pick and known for his defense hit 25 HRs last year in his first AAA season. It would have been a waste and our pitching staff would have suffered.
RedLegJason
Something tells me that since the Astros front office is pursuing him, they would not agree with you.
highheat
Always used to get Korey Lee on The Show and he was always a great pick up. Here’s to hoping life mirrors art.
StroDawg
Spot on Stroh. Unless they can get Murphy they need to work on the outfield before any other position.
Astros2017&22Champs
Contreras is a dh.
Astros Hot Takes
most of us didn’t want him here – we have Maldy, and major success with him behind the plate.
SupremeZeus
this is the way.
mil
Would seen to indicate that the A’s were wanting more for Murphy than the Cards would give
cards2016
The latest I saw said 3 mlb ready players.
mil
I saw the same. It will be nice to get some offense from the catching position. Yadi really fell off the past few seasons.
cards2016
What they will gain offensive will cost them the same if not more defensively (assuming he catches anywhere near 1k innings.) They still need a SP.
Lanidrac
That’s very unlikely, as only in 2018 did Contreras cost the Cubs more value on defense than he provided on offense according to Fangraphs.
As for SP, they’re perfectly fine going with a rotation of Mikolas, Flaherty, Montgomery, Wainwright, and Matz, backed up by Hudson, Woodford, Thompson, and Liberatore.
iH8PaperStraws
That rotation sucks. Mikolis has had two good years and two not so who knows what your getting and he’s do for an injury. Flaherty is not pitching. Montgomery is a good 3/4, wainwright couldn’t finish the year due to dead arm and is a year older. And if Matz could ever be healthy he isn’t good.
Sig 2
Terrible, he just doesn’t fit on our team. I have never liked him. Defensive minded catcher.m Would’ve been so much better. Murphy and Jansen were a way much better option.
yadi4
Crap!
Bryzzo2016
Yikes, after watching two decades of Yadi’s game defense, framing and handling pitchers, Willy’s gonna drive Cards fans nuts and I’m here for it. Lol. There’s a reason the Cubs never even offered him a contract. I was afraid STL was gonna get Murphy. This is much better news for the NL Central.
Samuel
Bryzzo2016;
What I was going to write.
After years of Yadi, those pitching will be throwing to one of the worst catchers in MLB.
The Brewers need to rethink punting any in 2023. This is a very winnable division for both them and the Cubs – especially if the Cubs get Correa or Bogaerts.
SimbaHOF2019
I love Yadi but lets be honest. his physical skills have not been up to par for a couple years now. Contreras is probably better defensively overall than yadi was last year.
Wagner>Cobb
Contreras certainly has his limitations, but it’s fun to imagine his bat in the 2 spot with Goldy and Arenado behind him. Might put up even better numbers this year than he did last year.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
You’d put him 2nd? Seems to me that Arenado should be there, followed by Goldy. Seems more like a 5-6 spot guy to me..
barkinghumans77
Doubt he bats 2nd. Agree about the 5-6 spot
cards2016
I can’t see a low 300 OBP batting 2nd on a playoff team, 6 would be my guess.
Wagner>Cobb
Would not hit Arenado 2nd. He’s quite clearly the most comfortable hitting 4th. No reason to change that.
Lanidrac
You could put them #2-3 instead of #3-4, but it’s always been the right move to have Goldy in front of Arenado, as Goldy provides more OBP while they have a similar amount of power.
Samuel
Wagner>Cobb;
Defense and pitching is the name of the game.
Cardinals management used to know that.
Mike Shildt knows it. Mo doesn’t. He fired Shildt and is happy Yadi retired – he’d have gotten rid of him years ago but for the fan backlash.
Wagner>Cobb
Still an elite defensive team last year, so I don’t think your claim holds water.
Samuel
Wagner>Cobb;
That was last year.
Catcher is the most importent defensive position on a team – primarily because he handles the staff, calls and runs the game,
and has to block balls in the dirt.
Next comes SS and CF.
Consider that.
Wagner>Cobb
I’m well aware of the importance of defense up the middle. But just because they go for a bat first catcher doesn’t mean they no longer value defense at all.
Holy Cow!
Right, Samuel. Mo signed Yadi to the 3/$60 extension and re-signed him twice.
Wagner>Cobb
Also, Mo built the defense on this team. He assembles the roster, not Shildt.
Samuel
Wagner>Cobb;
Yes. That’s my point.
LOL
Wagner>Cobb
You’re not really making that point though. You said Mo doesn’t understand that pitching and defense are a priority, but that Shildt did know it. I told you Mo assembled the roster that has been one of the top defensive teams in baseball since Goldschmidt was acquired. It continued to be a top defensive team last year after Shildt was fired.
Devlsh
He also assembled the team we had BEFORE Shildt, having hired and stuck with Matheny. It wasn’t until Shildt arrived that the fundamentals and defense became an emphasis, and since his departure, we see Gorman playing second and now Contreras….both would seem to indicate defense is no longer the priority it once was.
I’m not an extremist…I think Mo has done mostly positive things…but this move seems so opposite to what the Cardinals have been the last few years that I understand Samuel’s point.
Wagner>Cobb
It’s an extreme position to say that Mo doesn’t understand the importance of defense. Especially because he has brought in two elite defenders (Goldy and Arenado), signed Yadi to two extensions long after his bat faded, has kept Edman in the team…so on and so forth. I’m not saying defense is his utter priority, but to act like he doesn’t care about it at all makes little sense and goes against the history of their decisions.
Besides this, people keep saying Contreras is a horrible defender largely due to framing…but they ignore the other aspects of defense that he is elite at: arm strength and pop time. He also came highly recommended by Quintana, so his game calling must not be as bad as many are claiming.
Holy Cow!
I think the non-trade is exaggerating people’s perceptions of hi defense. It’s definitely not bad. He makes up for it in other ways.
cards2016
He’s HR dependent to be productive. Super low OBP and one of worst defenders in MLB.
Wagner>Cobb
What makes him “one of the worst defenders in MLB”? Looks basically average when you take all (not some) of the responsibilities of the position into account.
cards2016
Pick any defensive statistic.
Wagner>Cobb
Elite pop time and rate of throwing out runners?
Lanidrac
He has a career OBP of .349. In what league outside of video games is that super low?
Samuel
“Pick any defensive statistic.”
cards2016;
I don’t follow defensive statistics because they’re so far off base. However, consider this…..
Martín Maldonado had the following numbers with the Astros in 2022:
.186 / .248 / .352 / .600
His bWAR was 0.3; his fWAR was 0.5.
Martín Maldonado was one of the most valuable members of the championship Astros team, and anyone associated with them knows it.
Statistics don’t measure the value of a catcher at all. They’re a joke.
You want to play rotisserie league baseball, fine. Baseball on a field is different.
belkiolle
He was a barely passable power bat in the hitter friendly confines of Wrigley. Busch 3 is going to crush him. It’s where right handed power hitters go to die.
Wagner>Cobb
Except for Goldy hitting 30+ homeruns per year every year he’s been there except for 2020 and winning an MVP. Except for Arenado hitting 30+ homeruns both years he’s been there and finishing 3rd for MVP. Except for O’Neill hitting 34 homeruns there in 2021 when he was healthy.
Lanidrac
Albert Pujols played 7 years in Busch III and has more career home runs than any right-handed hitter not named Hank Aaron.
Bounty Hunters IA
As a Cubs fan my hate of all things east Missouri team knows no bounds. Willson is my favorite active player also so I’m torn by this. I hope he plays well and makes the ignorant Cubs brass rue the day they didn’t extend him. At least that POS town will have one classy person in their organization and city.
cards2016
Arenado, Goldy, Wainwright…I hate cubs with a burning passion, but I don’t say they have zero players with class.
Dock_Elvis
Cubs fans can be the worst. And I say that as a person who rode Amtrak 12 hours to Wrigley for a game on my honeymoon.
yadi4
There goes any chance of Mo spending for an impact bat.
Lanidrac
Um, Contreras *IS* an impact bat.
Wagner>Cobb
People on here acting like they signed a career AAA catcher.
paulk-2
I’d like that average to go up about 20-25 points.. We don’t need another .240 hitter in St. Louis.
Lanidrac
Actually, power was the bigger need in the St. Louis lineup. They already have a number of high average/OBP hitters between Goldschmidt, Arenado, Edman, Donovan, and Nootbaar, but only the Big 2 and the now retired Pujols managed to hit 20+ home runs last year.
If they can get bouncebacks from O”Neill and/or Carlson and/or breakouts from Gorman and/or Walker, that will really help, but Contreras adds some nice established power into the middle of the lineup, plus he posts really good OBPs despite his somewhat mediocre batting averages.
paulk-2
Yepez, Carlson, Nootbar, O’Neill and Gorman strike out waaaaaaaay to much. Only Yepez out of that group hit over .250 last year and that has to improve for all of them. You can have nice OBP all you want but there isn’t a single pitcher scared to throw to one of these guys after a walk.
Lanidrac
…after those walks are where the power bats of Goldy, Arenado, Contreras, and O’Neill and Gorman themselves come in.
Besides, Yepez and Gorman are only part-time players for now, while O’Neill and Carlson are quite likely to rebound closer to their 2021 numbers.
paulk-2
Carlson needs to exceed his 2021 total because 2021 was borderline average with a few extra home runs and he isn’t looked at as being an average prospect. O’Neill needs to take 3 steps forward because he really fell off last year.
but again, outside of Arenado, these guys need to pick up the averages and cut back on the strikeouts.
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
I thought STL prioritized defense in catchers?
barkinghumans77
Ivan Herrera is the future catcher. Needs a little time as he’s very young. He’s great defensively
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
I like Herrera a lot. Are they planning on using Contreras as more of DH/ part time c?
Wagner>Cobb
Probably by years 2 and 3 of the deal.
FrontOfficeStan
I also like Herrera but just to be clear, he is not great defensively, has a long way to go.
Aaron Sapoznik
Cubs fans dreading this outcome. The only positive I can think of is that it likely keeps Sean Murphy out of St. Louis in 2023. Of course, Murphy as a potential Cub or White Sox would make this Chicago fan very happy.
Dogbone
Aaron, seriously who do you feel the A’s would expect to receive in return from the Chisox for Murphy? Maybe Montgomery PLUS?
Talleywhacker
Tying up this kind of money on a future dh doesn’t make any sense.
barkinghumans77
Have you seen the price of these contracts being handed out? Murphy would have been nice but not at that cost. Get a catcher and save resources for a starter or even a shortstop. Personally, I believe in Ivan Herrera
cards2016
A’s want a kings ransom for Murphy. I liked him for Gorman or Carlson plus a mid tier prospect, but A’s want 3 MLB ready players and that’s just dumb.
Lanidrac
Sure it does. He starts off as the starting catcher, and a good DH costs usually quite a bit of money, too.
SODOMOJO
Watch out man, they are loading up. With highly touted kids on the way
30 Parks
That’s a significant defensive shift from Yadi to Contreras. I like the fit, no less, but that’s a big change. I would have gone after Vazquez.
Bryzzo2016
Hahaha, WOW! Contreras is gonna drive STL fans nuts and I’m here for it. After watching Yadi for two decades now they get a dude that can’t frame pitches, horrible defensively and has no clue how to handle a pitching staff. Basically the opposite of Molina. I was afraid Mo was gonna get Murphy from OAK. This is great! There’s a reason that the Cubs (who know him better than anyone) never even offered a contract.
theonlydynasty
You should probably post that at least 1 more time so we all know how you feel. 3 times in 1 thread is nowhere near enough
mil
amen brother
sgtschultz
This hurts. The fact that the Cardinals want him is all the proof needed that the Cubs FO is clueless.
WSnotAstros2017
Cardinals can have him. Houston does need catching. Outfield they use whom they have so maybe Murphy or one from Jays. Not sure what Houston offered. Probably not the years he wanted or something. Houston May bring in Lee. Use Chas and Dubon in outfield with Yordan and Brantley or move Hensley to outfield
cards2016
Cardinals will still need a catcher with Contreras on the team as he will likely be a mostly DH bat.
Lanidrac
He’s fine behind the plate at least until Herrera is ready.
CJ81
This is the wrong move for the Cardinals. I would be shocked if Contreras has a higher WAR than Murphy in more than about 1 year over whatever contract Contreras receives. Murphy is better, entering his prime, and costs less.
The Cardinals can afford to give up prospects not named Jordan Walker. Trading prosepcts for Murphy lets them spend cash on another position, like shortstop!
Now the Cardinals will avoid the SS market, roll out Donovan at 2b (decreasing his value which is largely due to his versatility) or even worse, Dejong at SS. I do like Gorman as a LH DH or backup 2b, but if he is enough to be a headliner for Murphy (obviously would take 1-2 other decent specs too) then you make that trade and use cash on a SS. 2 years in a row the free agent market gives the Cardinals exactly what they need and they don’t take advantage.
mil
pretty sure the only way they pursued a ss was if they traded Gorman. I would hate to be tied to Swanson for 6 or 7 years at $25 mil per year.
FrontOfficeStan
I like the idea of swanson much more than contreras.
SimbaHOF2019
Problem is more teams than the Cards want Murphy and the As want young major leaguers, not prospects. Cards cant wait and hope they have the best package, then lose Contreras while waiting on the As to slow play.
Wagner>Cobb
They don’t need a SS. Murphy apparently costs way more in terms of prospects. If he didn’t they would have made the trade. Now they can save prospects to trade for rotation help midseason or next offseason when they will desperately need it.
baseballnamescanbehard
He has never had a negative dWAR but I am still not excited about him. He is definitely a step up from Kiz tho.
This one belongs to the Reds
Now they say “guarded optimism “. Gotta love these “insiders”.
cards2016
I hope it falls through. I would much rather they go after someone like Vazquez until Herrera is ready to be called up.
eznod
He could play Left Field… package O’Neil to the A’s for Murphy.
cards2016
You would be selling low on O’Neil and A’s would want another player or 2.
rememberthecoop
So he’s good enough to replace a legend but not good enough for the team that drafted and developed him. It’s so hard being a Cubs fan!
Holy Cow!
Two years of more Willson would have been great, but would like four? Catchers fall off the cliff quicker. See Grandal.
Led Hoyer
I always wanted to extend Contreras but watching the cubs at the end of last season without him in the lineup was pretty eye opening. I think they played better without him.
Tdat1979
Cardinals got their DH, now go get a real catcher.
cwsOverhaul
The ask from Oakland had to be exorbitant for Murphy, b/c Cards likely were willing to offer something arguably unwise but not flat out crazy. Cleveland and TB are used to being the seller of prized pieces, so doubtful Oak gets them to go overboard. A’s may have to settle for a great return, as opposed to the other club GM should be fired type of return.
vaderzim
Looks like the Padres $200 Million offer was for nothing.
This one belongs to the Reds
Now they are nearing a deal…headline keeps changing like the weather.
sliderwithcheeze
It’s still St Louis and they still suck
cards2016
Supposedly Cardinals offered 5+ years. I wonder what Padres offered.
baseballnamescanbehard
Not a chance they offered 5 years
This one belongs to the Reds
They are saying it is 5 years now. Sorry.
This one belongs to the Reds
He will be a DH by the time this contract is over. Catchers wear out faster.
thefallensoldier
Don’t think he was ever seriously considering the Astros given that they nixed the completed in season trade and want him to play multiple defensive positions
jjd002
Why does that have any bearing on what is happening now? It was rightfully nixed because it was a massive overpay for a rental.
thefallensoldier
Not really, pitchers like Urquidy aren’t hard to find
jjd002
Pitchers with that much team control available in a trade are hard to find. It would have been a massive overpay.
msqboxer
The problem for Cardinal fans is not everyone is as high on your prospects as you believe their worth. I’ve heard ESPN St. Louis thinking that a Lars Nootbar was the key to get deals done with his .231 average and that Gorman and Carlson are untouchable.
cards2016
Nootbaar is a well above league average bat, are you one of those people that just looks at average and if it’s below .300 you think the player sucks? The guy just turned 25 and had a .340 OBP, .448 SLG, .788 OPS and 2.2 WAR over only 290 ABs in 2022.
skip55
.270, at least. object of the game is to get on base, drive in runs.
cards2016
OBP=On Base Percentage. I’ll take 230 avg with 340 OBP over 27 avg with 300 OBP.
highheat
An a macro level, yes; on a micro level the object is to optimize every opportunity for every player.
None of these skills exist in a vacuum (regardless of how good they are), so who’s to say he would be as productive with an approach geared toward hitting .270+?
cards2016
You do realize you were calling a 24 year old player with 499 MLB appearance trash, right?
skip55
a .40 higher batting average boosts all the other stats.
BaseballGuy1
Screwed around way too long running a diminished Molina out there, last two years… when much better choices available than Contreras will ever be. Regrettable to be in this position, yet STL did it to themselves.
Deleted Userr
See! This is why they should have traded him. Enjoy that comp pick and it not increasing the offers you get for future trade chips Cubbie fans.
Holy Cow!
You’re still fixating on that?
Josh5890
Sometimes, it is better to hold onto an asset rather than take an offer you feel is lowballed.
Holy Cow!
Two other teams other than the Astros were looking for catchers — Rays who went budget and control with Bethancourt and Mariners who backed up Raleigh with Casali. The market was not robust.
Deleted Userr
Not when the alternative is to lose that asset for absolutely nothing shortly therafter.
Josh5890
Comp pick isn’t absolutely nothing though.
Deleted Userr
Bruh, you really think no one was offering more than a 2nd/3rd round sandwich pick for the NL All Star team’s starting catcher? XD XD XD
Josh5890
I don’t know what anyone was offering back in July. I am just pushing back on your statement that the Cubs gave up Contreras for nothing.in return.
Deleted Userr
What percentage of 2nd/3rd round sandwich picks stick as everyday position players or starting pitchers? lol
revolver
Nobody wanted him. Cards will be regretting this by the all star break. He is not good.
skip55
this doesn’t fill the need for a big bat
Talleywhacker
5 Years?! I just threw up a little
elo2cali
“Jon Heyman tweets” should never be given any credibility going forward
Bryzzo2016
5 years?!?!? Hahahaha, the Cubs know him better than anyone and also need a catcher and almost didn’t even give him the QO in fear he might actually accept it. Good for Contreras!! Bad for STL. This will be Dexter Fowler… the sequel. Definitely shoulda traded for Murphy and re-signed Quintana.
Deleted Userr
Lol. The Cubs did NOT “almost not give him a QO.” QO’ing Contreras if not traded was the easiest decision Hoyer has had to make in his time as GM.
SimbaHOF2019
Yeah, The astros know nothing about talent. they wanted him and they aren’t even desperate for a catcher.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Not sure about the money figure but it’s for 5 years.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Congrats Cards fans!!
User 3663041837
There’s not going to be enough mustard in Busch Stadium for that hotdog.
Dotnet22
87.5MM for 5 years isn’t crazy.
.
Has it been comfirmed yet that the Padres offered him signifcantly more $$ but he still declined their offer?
Rsox
Does Contreras become the most hated guy on the North Side now?
jide
Nope, the guy that has posted the same thing over and over again is
Bryzzo2016
No way! Good for him! 5 yrs/90 million?!?! STL desperately overpaid just like they did for Fowler. It’s not like Willy didn’t make it obvious he wanted to stay in Chicago. The Cubs (who need a catcher and know Contreras better than anyone) didn’t even offer him a low ball deal. He was never in the Cubs plan for obvious reasons. A decent bat (only 2 above average offensive years out of 7 and 7 years of bad defense/framing)
Most Cub fans will be happy for Willy getting paid!
Holy Cow!
No way.
Josh5890
He will be as hated as Dexter Fowler was.
Not a chance.
wmurphy24
I believe that catchers are undervalued in the market.
revolver
I think they are vastly overrated. Plenty of teams have won it all with pedestrian catchers.
stroh
$17.6M /yr for Contreras? Wow.
revolver
It’s a lot. He’s almost unplayable at catcher and not good enough offensively to devote to full time DH.
solaris602
Looking forward to the next story about how SD offered Contreras more money (even though the Padres don’t need a catcher), but Willson turned them down.
User 624265706
You know what? As a Cubs fan, I’m glad to see him leaving. He’s been very prideful as of late and I don’t care for that. I have feeling that could be, as others have mentioned, Fowler 2.0. Now maybe the Cubs can field a catcher that cares more about his pitchers than his reputation.
Cmurphy
I gotta agree with this. Sort of glad he’s gone as well. I wish him well but will not miss the attitude.
CardsFan77
Lmao… Cubs fans… you all are something else.. YOUR OWNERS AND MANAGEMENT basically screamed to the world last trade deadline that they wanted to deal him badly… then it didn’t happen.. imagine being the guy on the other side of that.
Milwaukee-2208
Brewers front office is pathetic. Watching your rivals get better each day and we are scraping by signing junk. The loyal fan base deserves better than this. And for everyone that says “brewers are a small market and can’t spend a lot” it’s a matter of not WANTING to spend. Owner makes plenty of money. It’s just a joke.
Might as well trade burnes woody and adames at this point
kgcubs
As a Cub fan, I wish Willy well. I just think 5yrs is too long and his defense, pitch calling/framing is no where near Molina’s. But At Louis has strong infield defense to help him out. Mahalo
30 Parks
… that’s Cody Bellinger money.
Tastes Like Chicken
This looks like an $overpay$ that will not age well. Five years for a 30 year ago catcher is too much. Catchers generally age in dog years. This guy doesn’t have the defensive skills to rely on when the bat speed slows down.
Jerry Cantrell
Yadier Molina begs to differ.
Cmurphy
Molina was an aberration. While he did decline, it was slower and he had more to start with than Willson.
citizen
carlton fisk & ted simmons & john bench chine in. yogi berra will too with an anecdote.
CardsFan77
Herrera will be our catcher soon.. Contreras will be a DH/ possibly 1b relief. Not a terrible price honestly
baseballpun
I still would’ve preferred Murphy, but this is was my 2nd option. I think they’re legislating the importance of catching defense out of the game, except for the ability to throw out runners, which Contreras is actually good at. You can’t argue with offense, so long as he can stick behind the dish.
If you told me that the Cardinals were going to spend X dollars no matter what and by signing Contreras over, say, Vasquez they were missing out on a pitcher or SS, I’d be upset. But I think they were prepared to spend money on Contreras, and Contreras only, so they might as well go for it and get the best FA catcher on the market.
I’d like to see a trade still to upgrade the rotation or SS (more likely the former).
CardsFan77
I have a funny feeling the A’s wanted the moon and stars for Murphy. Think about it this way, not only did the Cards not acquire him but nobody else has yet either. Wouldn’t be the case ever for a top 3 catcher.
Cardsfanatik redux
I was wondering if they were insisting on Masyn or Walker. Or even if they wanted Gorman plus too much else. I personally thought giving up on Gorman was too much to ask. I think the kids going to be a monster. I could be wrong but I’d hate to watch him hit 40 hr’s a year in Oakland.
TomL
Wow, good for him. Screw Jed/Ricketts for not keeping around ANY of the 2016 stars as he was certainly with this to stay on the Cubs. Now that he has peace of mind in a long-term deal I’ll expect some career years from him even on defense.
YourDreamGM
The stars turned down extension offers and the prospect returns for them were amazing.
Old York
Nice! I called it 3 weeks ago.
mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/willson-contreras-decli…
Clepto_
Yawn.
Cincyfan85
Cardinals’ lineup looks like Darkwing Duck next year.
Try hard Cubs fan 2
He’ll be a DH in a couple years anyway
InherentVice
I like Willson Contreras, but I would never give a 5-year contract to an injury-prone catcher who will be 31 at the start of next season.
themed
He sign for 5 years at what teams hand out for qualifying offers. Very reasonable contract. Love it! Poor poor cubbies!
themed
Exactly he’s going to be a monster! Would have hated to see him go almost as much as cub fans hate to see Contreras go
Monkey’s Uncle
Outside of maybe the 5 year commitment, I love everything about this move for the Cards, and I’m a Pirates fan. Great add for them.
cr4
Wow he signed for nothing compared to what I thought he was gonna get. As a reds fan bitter at our ownership I am stoked keep crushing us red birds hopefully ownership will sell
dano62
I wish they’d have put most of that money towards SP instead, especially with bounce-back catchers like narvaez or Sanchez available… we know from past that the spending will be limited after this. Shame that one of most popular & financially successful franchises won’t dig in a little more.
CardsFan77
Why does everyone talk about SP??? There us no room for SP at this point we have what we have. Anyone we could possibly get rid of is under contract and we won’t get anything for them…. pitching is somewhat thin with some variables…. we are gonna have to out play and out hit other teams. That’s it.
nottinghamforest13
Dan McLaughlin is too drunk and busy peeing his pants to enjoy this transaction. Derrick Goold remains silent about the matter.
iH8PaperStraws
Congratulations Mozalak, you finally signed a impactful free agent. Only took 11 years.
Riontyler
Taking a step back and looking at the entirety of the situation (I am not innocent in this either) every off season, it seems to boil down to Mo not doing enough to improve a team that has a couple of glaring needs to be legitimate contenders. Either by not paying the most or not giving up minor league talent that is highly regarded. When Mo does make moves, more times than not it’s a bunch of moans about the $$$ or the prospects given. I’ll say it again, I get frustrated with him every off season and every trade deadline….I would also like a mulligan on the sandy for ozuna deal but looking back at that point in time, he tried hard for several legit bats but ended up with good ol’ Ozuna. Teams are not looking to get your 34th ranked prospect, they want to better their team as much as anyone else so, asking price is often lofty….I think Contreras will bring some spark and something to prove. He wasnt the number 1 option for catcher this off season on accident. Honestly, as much as it hurts to see 5 years attached, it’s time to accept it and hope they reel in some top pitching and maybe a heavy bat with prospects saved by signing a FA. MO can be a jackas s but if you’re thinking you could do a better job, go take a nap. Get some rest for your next shift at whatever crap job you have at the moment. It’s so very easy to make assumptions and be judgmental of the person that can make or break your favorite team but, I’d venture a guess he has more information than we could imagine and made this particular signing after doing the due diligence. Or hate on MO, someone the comments are funny, doesnt matter either way to me.
nottinghamforest13
By not using their farm to acquire a catcher they now have more prospect capital available to make a run at Ohtani.
Hubert
The Contreras deal probably at the root of the conversation Mozeliak had with Arenado back in October, when Arenado decided not to opt out.
“Cardinals president John Mozeliak said earlier in the week that he traveled to Southern California to talk with Arenado. Mozeliak said Arenado wanted to know about a potential rise in the team’s payroll, and what the plans are to rebuild the roster following the losses of Pujols and Molina.
“He’s just trying to use his time and sort through some things,” Mozeliak said of Arenado on Wednesday. “He asked questions of how we’re thinking about the club, what we’re thinking about in the future and topics like, ‘How are we going to deploy our resources?’ It was a very positive conversation.”
BaseballisLife
He took less money to stay in the Central and torment the Cubs. NICE!
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Solid deal with a low AAV
citizen
wtg hoyer – cubs. don’t trade your asset at the deadline and let em walk to the rival.
##55 mlb pick doesn’t make up for that
Jacksson13
Team has had 17 years to draft, develop and groom a replacement for Molina.
Why didn’t they ??
Poster formerly known as . . .
Off the top of my head, I’d say it’s because there aren’t a lot of Yadis to be had.
stan lee the manly
How do you develop a catcher when Molina catches 95% of the games? Answer is you can’t. That’s why.
Champs64
That has been a problem for a long time. I loved Yadi but he needed to rest more for his own benefit but also to get others behind the plate. I hope that Knizner or Herrera gets more playing time with Willson having opportunities at DH.
cubslub
As a cubs fan I cant hate WILSON for this or, dare i say the Cards either. they have always been screwd and successful. That said…
WTH TOM.. passing on generational athletisim and competetivness at an afforable price and position is exacty why i gave up my season tix and i wont support my wife this year with her number being called. @5/87… pfft. cheers to the next 100yrs. ill be the guy with a bag in his head this year not buying beer. see you on ESPN everyone. OUT
God Help Us All
Hahaha, love it. Signed a Cubs fan who watched 150 games last season.
revolver
Cards fans will be aghast at how poor a catcher he is.
bradthebluefish
Top 5 catchers and only makings $17.5MM per year!? Amazing deal.
themed
Yes it’s basically paying him qualifying offer for 5 years. A steal really
FrontOfficeStan
I was against the cards going for Contreras at the beginning of FA, but as mentioned in another post, I think he has become better value considering the market situation for other catchers.
5 years is a lot of time for Contreras but it’s hard to imagine this going worse than fowler. Right? Maybe it’s copium.
Worst case, we have a plus bat at DH for a few years and this should make it a lot easier for Herrera to break in since Contreras won’t be behind the plate as often as Yadi was.
statefarm44
Cubs should trade Willy’s little buddy, C Morel, in a package for Sean Murphy
Cardsfanatik redux
Lol, better add a LOT more than that.
Redhomer81
I see this as a good value. My only problem with it is how much the money spent so far might deter the Cardinals from another bat or an Ace. I personally think they are 4 moves away from league wide competition for dominance. But it would require money and or the loss of prospects via trade. I would like: another dominant reliever, an Ace to lead through the playoffs with tougher consistent lineups, a left handed hitter with .850+OPS, a reliever/spot starter to fill in multiple roles ala Joe Kelly~ish. We have had some nasty dominant teams in the past. We will compete, but far from dominant.
Steve Rogers
I don’t understand why Hoyer would let Contreras go without a replacement. Congrats Cards and good luck William!
PutPeteinthehall
Must have out priced himself when negotiating a possible Cubs extension. Burnt bridges and probably told good luck. He might have gotten an 17.5 x5 extension offer from the Cubs in 2022. All of the 2016 Cubs stars out priced themselves from getting an extension before their careers in Chicago ended. I believe only lame Kris Bryant was able to get a whopper contract from Colorado from the same idiots that gave Arenado away. Boras at his finest. All of the others ended up taking less. Including Arrieta who Boras ended up losing the gamble with.
themed
Probably just the thought of Chicago made him puke
themed
He is very good!
YourDreamGM
Yan
YourDreamGM
Being the best offensive catcher on the market this is reasonable price. Russell Martin was better defensively but look he got almost a decade ago.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I’m guessing he doesn’t have a no trade clause. He’ll be traded by winter of year 4. Dexter Fowler got 5mil less than Wilson going into the 2017 season also with the Cardinals he was traded within his 5th year. Unfortunately he almost immediately went out with a torn acl with Anaheim
NoNeckWilliams
This has to sting Cubs’ fans.
ChrisEnvy76
As a Cubs fan I can tell you that I am 100% behind letting him go. He cannot call a game for his life. As a DH his bat is average to below average. I know there are fans out there that grew up with him so the nostalgia is there, but not realtiy.
Cmurphy
Also as a Cubs fan, I am perfectly fine letting him walk. No sting.
ChrisEnvy76
Please God, have them let Willson call every game behind the plate. I cannot WAIT to see that! LOL.
Wagner>Cobb
As good a hitter as advertised. Not as bad a defender as the “pitch framing warriors” claim. Kept their prospect and young MLB talent for future use. AAV relatively low. This is a very solid deal.
ChrisEnvy76
I honestly don’t know what “As good a hitter as advertised” is supposed to mean. He’s meh on pitch framing. He is awful at calling a game, go look at pitching ERA when he called games and when Gomes did. It’s a bad deal and they’ll be paying it for 5 years.
Wagner>Cobb
– He’s labeled as a top offensive catcher, and he is. All the numbers relative to his peers support this.
– Last three years as a framer: two league average and one above average. Hardly “meh”.
– Received excellent remarks from Hendricks, Arrieta, Stroman, Lester, and Lackey.
– “When pitching to Contreras, Stroman had a 2.79 ERA in 61.1 innings. When working with all other Cubs catchers, Stroman had a 4.07 ERA in 77.1 innings.”
– “Lester had one of his best seasons — 18-6 with a 3.32 ERA in 2018 – with Contreras as his catching mate. Lester received Cy Young votes in 2018. From 2017 through 2019, Lester had a 3.70 ERA when pitching to Contreras (484 innings) and a poorer ERA when working with other Cubs catchers.”
(Quotes from Bernie Miklasz scoopswithdannymac.com/bernie-willson-contreras-ge…)
– Above average pop time
– Above average rate of throwing out runners
– Elite at back-picking runners
– Elite at limiting stolen bases attempts
There’s no evidence that he’s bad at calling a game. Pitcher ERA isn’t evidence because the catcher calls the pitch, but the pitcher also has to execute it.
ChrisEnvy76
LOL. So, you listed Stroman’s numbers from last year. List the rest of them. It’s also hilarious that you listed Lester’s numbers with Contreras, did you notice what they did with the other “catchers” you said were catching Lester? They loved them so much they shipped them out. Also funny that you people never defended Contreras when he was on the Cubs but now that he’s switched teams suddenly he’s great. Good luck to you, Contreras can eat one. Your terrible pitching staff is about to get worse.
FrontOfficeStan
I always thought Contreras was good, but that being said, didn’t want the Cardinals to sign him. I think another poster said they are choosing optimism, which I think a lot of sensible fans are doing now. I hope it isn’t as bad as you seem to think it will be. I was hoping for Vazquez. Oh well.
Wagner>Cobb
There is no evidence that he’s a bad defensive catcher. He’s average at the very worst. You ignored most of the information I provided which is, so far, typical of Contreras naysayers.
What do you mean, “other catchers”? Lester’s personal catcher was David Ross until he retired. Then, Lester chose Contreras as his personal catcher. Both Lester and Hendricks give ample credit to Contreras’ feedback in terms of pitch calling.
Cardinals rotation is above average. Not great but also not terrible.
I’m not in the business of defending Contreras. He was never on my radar to even care about. But then my favorite team signed him, I liked the move, and have now spent too much time explaining why it is a good move to people who claim he’s a bad defensive catcher without providing any tangible evidence. On the contrary, they ignore the substantial amounts of data that say otherwise.
Wagner>Cobb
In my opinion, Vazquez would have only been a good signing if they backed it up with Swanson, or a trade for another impact hitter. The last two playoff series have shown that their lineup is shallow.
sliderwithcheeze
Winning obviously isn’t important to him. If he did his research he would have seen he’s catching a staff so bad, their pitching coach bailed. It’s only going to get worse after this year when they go to a two man rotation because they have no one else signed. St. Louis is in a tank/rebuild period without any tradable assets. They’ll be fighting with the Pirates for 4th in the Central.
Entered into the record and officially notated on 12/09/2022. -SWC
Chris2215
Tell me you don’t know #$&$ without telling me you don’t know #$&$! You actually listed SD as a place where he could for sure win. SD hasn’t won crap EVER. Your post is so full of holes that I can’t even attempt to debunk all of them. But the main one is where you state that the Cards are in a tank/rebuild time…….We just had the NL MVP who also won every other award under the sun and a 3rd Baseman who placed 3rd in the MVP and won his 10th straight gold glove. Also we have a guy who placed 3rd in the rookie of the year award AND won a gold glove. Furthermore, our SS had the 3rd highest WAR in the league and was nominated for a gold glove. Should I go on or is that enough. I feel stupid even replying to this post but it had to be done!! SMFH
MadSkillsUniversity
Wow, I’m sure it was not for the money, so why turn down a winner like Houston or others? To stick it to the Cubs and get paid? Ihat said, he should have tried to follow Abreu to a SURE winner like Houston or even NY, LA, SD, etc.. Well, he is no longer welcome in Chicago. LOL
themed
Cardinals are perennial contenders. Year after year! More Division titles than other current teams combine. They own the Crntral! Why not go to winners?
themed
Keep crying cub fans you losers!
ChrisEnvy76
It’s so funny that people think we are crying over the Cardinals. I’d put money on them ending up in 3rd this season and that is without the Cubs or Brewers making many moves.
b00giem@n
The Cubs and that trend going fan base didn’t deserve him.
chemfinancing
this will go down as such a bad move for the cardinals