Matt Chapman’s tenure with the Blue Jays ended for good when the third baseman signed with the Giants yesterday, scuttling any chances of a possible return to Toronto. The Blue Jays’ additions of Isiah Kiner-Falefa and Justin Turner didn’t entirely close the door on the possibility that Chapman and the Jays could perhaps reach some sort of deal, especially since we just saw Cody Bellinger (like Chapman, a Boras Corporation client) re-sign with his former team on a short-term contract with multiple opt-outs.
The Jays had also been linked to Chapman’s market earlier this winter, and their interest in retaining Chapman dated back well before he entered free agency. Back in November, TSN’s Scott Mitchell reported that Chapman had at some point turned down an extension offer worth more than $100MM over four or five years. Mitchell added more detail in a post on X earlier today, saying the Blue Jays’ offer was actually a six-year pact worth $120MM.
Chapman ended up with a three-year, $54MM guarantee from San Francisco, and the third baseman can opt out of the deal after either the 2024 or 2025 seasons. Based on sheer dollar value alone, it is easy to second-guess Chapman’s decision to reject Toronto’s extension offer at the moment, though six years and $120MM would’ve seemed like something of a bargain for Chapman for much of the 2023 campaign. Even though a finger injury contributed to Chapman’s big dropoff at the plate late in the season, MLBTR still projected him to land six years and $150MM this winter, owing to both his still-excellent defensive play, his outstanding advanced metrics, and the lack of position-player depth in the rest of the free agent class.
However, a bustling market never really seemed to develop. The Mariners, Cubs, Blue Jays, and Giants ended up being the only teams publicly linked to Chapman, and the third baseman ultimately chose the shorter-term deal with San Francisco, with the opt-out giving him a chance for a quick re-entry into free agency next offseason. He’ll bank $20MM in salary from the Giants before making that decision, and a more consistent 2024 season will likely position Chapman for a more lucrative long-term deal (and he won’t be attached to qualifying-offer compensation). While simply signing that extension with the Blue Jays would’ve erased any of this future uncertainty, Chapman seems willing to bet on himself in having a better platform year.
From Toronto’s perspective, it isn’t known if the Jays (or any other teams) had also floated this type of player option-heavy shorter-term deal to Chapman at any point. If the Blue Jays were indeed out of Chapman, Mitchell wonders if payroll constraints might have been a factor, as the Jays are on pace for their second straight year with a club-record payroll, as well as a second year over luxury tax overage. RosterResource estimates Toronto’s tax number at around $248.6MM, and re-signing Chapman to an $18MM average annual value would’ve put Toronto well over the second tier ($257MM) of luxury tax penalization, and inching closer to the third tier that begins at $277MM.
It could be that the Jays are satisfied enough with Kiner-Falefa, Turner, and the in-house infield options that they were comfortable moving on from Chapman even at a reduced price tag. Or, perhaps the Jays did make Chapman a similar offer to the Giants’ contract, but Chapman simply preferred to return to the Bay Area and re-unite with Bob Melvin, his old manager from his days with the Athletics.
Turning to some news from the Blue Jays’ spring camp in Dunedin, manager John Schneider told reporters (including MLB.com’s Keegan Matheson) that Alek Manoah won’t throw for a few days after feeling some soreness in his right shoulder during a bullpen session. An MRI didn’t reveal any structural damage, so Manoah will be re-evaluated in a few days’ time. According to Schneider, Manoah said his shoulder felt “a bit cranky, so we wanted to be extra careful at this point.”
While there isn’t any indication that the injury is anything more than basic soreness, the shoulder issue adds to Manoah’s status as the biggest question mark on the Blue Jays roster. After seemingly breaking out as a frontline pitcher in 2021-22, Manoah struggled badly in 2023, posting a 5.87 ERA in 87 1/3 big league innings. Manoah spent the offseason under a changed nutrition and training plan, but his first spring outing wasn’t promising, as he allowed four runs on three hits and three hit batters over 1 2/3 innings last Tuesday.
Kevin Gausman, Chris Bassitt, Jose Berrios, and Yusei Kikuchi are Toronto’s top four starters, with Manoah somewhat tentatively penciled into the fifth spot. Bowden Francis seems like the top candidate on the depth chart should any holes open in the rotation, with Schneider also citing Mitch White and non-roster invite Paolo Espino. Top prospect Ricky Tiedemann is more likely to begin the season at Triple-A, and Tiedemann is only getting back to regular prep work after missing some time with minor inflammation in his calf and hamstring.
Yariel Rodriguez is another new face in camp, as the right-hander is looking to make his MLB debut after signing a five-year, $32MM free agent contract. Apart from the World Baseball Classic, however, Rodriguez didn’t pitch in 2023, as he spent the year preparing to jump to the majors after spending his first eight pro seasons in the Cuban Serie Nacional and with Nippon Professional Baseball’s Chunichi Dragons.
Given this long layoff, it isn’t surprising that Rodriguez has some rust, and Schneider told Sportsnet and other media yesterday that Rodriguez had some back spasms earlier in camp that delayed his prep work. The righty is slated to throw a bullpen session today and is “feeling 100 per cent right now,” according to Schneider. “That was kind of our plan, to take it slow and really get him acclimated. But he should have enough time to hopefully ramp up to multiple innings when he does get into games,” the manager said.
Blue jays sold so hard
There must be an aversion for some players to want to play in Toronto; either that or Toronto is really bad at evaluating and attracting free agent talent. Chapman turning down $120M guaranteed from Toronto to then sign for $57M with SF certainly points to either an aversion to play in Canada by the player or a massive mistake on Chapman/Boras’ evaluation of the free agent market.
Then Toronto signs the light hitting IKF for 2/$15M while Detroit is able to sign a better player in Gio Urshela for $1.5M. Either they had to pay a “Canada tax” to get IKF to sign, or their front office just blew it. The IKF deal is going to look really bad for them in my opinion. That money could have been spent much more effectively.
The Yariel Rodriguez contact is also a huge gamble by Toronto. At least this one has a chance of working out fairly well for the team but the 6 year commitment was certainly much more than expected for his services. Again, Canada tax maybe?
The bogus claim about not wanting to play in Toronto, the third largest city in North American MLB locations, with state of the art training and playing facilities (and players are paid in US $$ for anyone wondering) is a common refrain from Toronto whiners when they don’t sign someone the whiner wants.
This canard began a new life after the years when the Blue Jays had brought in Mookie, Clemens, and a host of other top-flight players, and before they signed Gausman, extended Berrios by 8 years, outbid for Springer and Kiermaier, etc. It’s rooted somewhat in Toronto fans blindness to existence of other teams. Toronto isn’t the only team whose owner also owns a network (think, Yankees, BoSox, and Baltimore, its competition in the AL East).
So to Toronto baseball fans, not the instant pop-ups on Twitter/X and on call-in/write-in shows who are provoked to respond by media hosts who need readers and listerners/watchers, it’s over reach by Boras Corp. It’s not like Chapman was alone as a hold-out taking a big haircut from his and industry expectations. He was in the Boras bunch, and so far they’ve all lost $$ and time in Spring Training.
Maybe the Toronto fans, belligerent as they are have scared away some thin-skinned folks such as Chapman, but Kiermaier chose to return because both he and his family “love Toronto”. The city embraced him last year, and he delivered with a gold glove once again.
Was IKF an overpay at $7.5 million per year? Not from what I’ve seen, but we know there were hard-edges Yankee fans who wanted his bat to be better there. But as the Blue Jays wait for Orelvis Martinez and Addison Barger to ripen, IKF looks like a choice option who can play multiple positions at a professional level.
Manoah is still cheap and flaky from what we’ve seen despite taking a pause at the buffet line with a new wife who’s a nutritionist, so maybe we’ll see a second coming as the season wears on. In the meantime the rotation options beyond the first 4 (Gausman, Berrios, Bassitt and Kikuchi) remain solid for the team and pitching looks to again be a strength.
Some fans are happy Chapman has moved on as he appeared to have little personality, can’t hit,, and will start declining glove-wise while he continues past 30. Does he or anyone think he’ll opt out and get more next year?
Toronto is willing to gamble (and win doing so). They did so with Kikuchi and Berrios last year, and have given others (e.g. Biggio, Schneider) chances over the past few seasons. Yariel has so much upside that even if it takes him a few months in AAA to get his mojo back (he sat out all of 2023 after the WBC to gain his release) he may be a huge bargain. What signed player wasn’t a gamble at one time? And Toronto wasn’t the only bidder for the Cuban’s services.
BTW equating Urshela and IKF is apples and oranges,and not just about a price tag..
Mookie Wilson was top flight?
Last time I looked Mexico is part of North America making Toronto the 4th largest city after Mexico City, Los Angeles and Mew York. Get your information right before publishing it,
How did manoah go from pedro martinez to late-career matt harvey seemingly overnight??
One too many buffets may not have helped anything?!
“How did Manoah go from”…Little tiny chocolate donuts.. the bane of elite athletes everywhere…that and THOUSANDS of late-night visits to McDonald’s & Jack-in-the-box.
Little Chocolate Donuts are the Donuts of Champions. Every serious athlete has these little wonders on their training table.
“Donuts of champions”..I see you got the John Belushi SNL reference. Good catch, bro
No jack-in-the-box in Toronto. Lots of pizza though…
Lots of Pizza in Toronto is an understatement. Although if he wanted Jack-in-the-Box, Buffalo isn’t that far. Though he doesn’t seem to enjoy travelling there 😉
1/2 the Canadian diet is breakfast pastries from Tim Hortons
Beats the American breakfast of grand slam at Denny’s followed by buffet lunch at golden corral.
The league figured him out. Pedro Martinez didn’t become Pedro Martinez in one year. It took many years for Pedro Martinez to become great. There have been lots of pitchers in baseball history like Manoah that were good enough to dominate for a season or two. The key is longevity.
Pedro did have a 261 era at age 21 in 107 innings pitched.
Yes he did. I was around then. But he was not considered an all time great back then. He was just another young pitcher with a chance to one day become a great.
Neither was Manoah after his 2022. But Pedro never had a really bad season that made you question if he was gonna be a star
No, but his first few seasons in Montreal were not exactly HOF-level, More like Javier Vazquez level. Definitely good enough to be in the league for a decade or more, but not really a superstar. Then once he won the Cy Young in 97 and then went to Boston, you knew he was a bonafide superstar.
Roy Halladay
Ya the league got to know him a bit, but losing 5 MPH off his FB didn’t help.
You’re probably right, considering Ubaldo Jimenez knows a thing or two about going from Pedro Martinez to late career Matt Harvey.
Also, I chuckled at “running his mouth… at the buffet.”
@johnny- I know you want to pile on the Jays but Manoh is young. Nolan Ryan was a thrower not a pitcher until he met the right PC when he was traded from the Mets to the Angels.
Manoah was solid coming up thru minors, and electric first 2 seasons. All these comparisons are pitchers who started out slow then became stars. Different career trajectories. Weight might be a slight factor but that didnt stop david wells or bartolo colon from 20 year careers. If anything, the new rules/pitching clock can be somewhat blamed for his horrendous 2023. But he’s completely lost his mechanics too. It makes no sense
He hasn’t lost his mechanics. He’s young and just needs some tweeking.
Lol are you kidding? Dude couldnt throw a strike to save his life. Every batter was a walk or HBP. He was charlie sheen in major league before he started wearing glasses. He doesnt need a PC he needs a priest to perform an exorcism
That’s it, he just needs glasses
No I’m not kidding you. He’s been in the majors 3 years. He’s got excellent stuff. Some of you making remarks about physique should go look in the mirror. Anything for a thumbs up, right???
CC Sabathia comes to mind as well.
2024 spring debut. 1 2/3 innings 3 HBP.
Yep and his era is 21.60
Nobody ever fell off this bad overnight in mlb history
Rick Ankiel is in the same ballpark. I was looking forward to seeing that kid become a great pitcher before he stopped being able to throw strikes.
His growth in girth was the most noticeable change between 2022 and 2023 and that’s also blamed for Guerrero plateauing, so a natural conclusion.
Let’s hope his “excellent stuff” returns, it’s been AWOL for nearly 17 months.
Not lasting 2 innings in a Spring game and in that 1-2/3 hitting 3 batters does not suggest “excellent stuff”. The best the scribes could come up with on a positive note was that his velocity was up a couple to 98. But 98 without control isn’t even servicable in AA.
Many people, including non-Jays fans want to see him regain his pitching form. As they say in golf, we’ll see.
Pedro? Even his good year had some red flags, and I say that as a Jays fan.
Maybe pedro is a stretch but 25-9, 260 era in 308ip thru first 2 seasons is pretty darn good. Didnt notice he led the majors in HBP both seasons so maybe red flags were there but still he found a way to be very effective. Last yr players were hitting bombs off him like it was tee ball practice
Manoah has shed quite a bit of weight by the looks of it. His stuff doesn’t look flat from what I’ve seen and his fastball looks firm. The thing is the guy can’t locate a pitch to save his life.
Thrower not a pitcher.
95% sure Rodriguez begins in AAA. He has one option. We also know the organization isn’t ready to give up on the great Mitchell White.
The first Manoah outing is concerning but not (yet) time to panic. It would be in the Jays best interest to consider a backup plan, and Bowden Francis is not the backup plan. Off-field aside, a Bauer or Clevinger would be the type to consider due to recent comments made by Atkins regarding the budget.
Or you’re just bitter based on nearly every comment you make. Because you say selfishness and I could easily point to specifics on a number of players which you’d take in a heartbeat.
The following two words aren’t words but for you we will lower the bar and give you a Pat on the back.
You tell us why you’re bitter.
You haven’t cited one single Blue Jay that has some kind of “ego”. Someone who knows little would interpret “ego” when it’s not. Blue Jays have issues, ego is not it.
Do not confuse immaturity with ego. First point.
Second, tell every Jays fan Cavan Biggio and Alejandro Kirk carry huge egos (your words). Merrifield too. Oh, and Chap is no longer with the team, and if you’re excluding Merrifield you should be excluding Chapman from the group.
Like I said, you’re angry. Too angry to have a clear, concise opinion. This is why you’re off the mark constantly. Calm down, watch some games, learn the game of baseball, then come in with a rational take.
So the Jays are the only MLB team with “egos?” None of the nonsense you’re posting is making any sense. Do you have any specific examples of the allegedly huge egos these guys have, and how their egos are bigger than players from other teams in the league? Or are you just making stuff up?
It’s quite silly Hank. Immature at-times? Sure. The “ego” argument is baseless.
I’d include Vlad and Manoah but not the others. To play baseball well you have to believe in yourself and to some that’s ego. Vlad has only delivered in 2020 when he played nearly half the season in a AAA ball park. He has a big ego. But he appears to be in better shape this year and while he wants a long-term contract the FO is likely calculating their return in prospects and today players from a trade after the season if he doesn’t finally deliver on his promise.
Nobody wants hot dogs on a team or someone who trains to win a hotdog eating competition.
Still feel he should have been traded… but maybe no one wanted risk.
Have you ever heard of Garret Cole. When he was with Pittsburgh, the fans couldn’t get rid of the loser fast enough because he was a disaster. He was traded to Houston that fixed his mechanics and he is now the ace of the Yankees, but it took many years to reach that level. People are judging Manoah the same way Pittsburgh fans judged Cole. He is a disaster, a loser because he got lit up in a whole 1 2/3’s of an inning in spring training that was explained as a sore shoulder. Why is it that Ohtani, Kershaw, Verlander, Scherzer get a free pass from fans when the same thing bothers them? Judge a player at the end of the season – NOT at the beginning before it even starts.
Excuse me, and I take your comment in the way it was intended as forward-looking for a positive pattern, BUT Manoah was “lit up” throughout 2023, not just in Spring Training 2024 after being hyped as “fixed”.
By the way It’s Gerrit Cole, not ‘Garret’. And despite his big ego, he delivers. I hope Manoah can be as good. But the pattern is different. Manoah was great for his first two seasons before stinking out the joint in 2023 when was overweight (by any measure) and refused to admit or address it. Let’s hope he reads something about redemption….
“What’s the most surprising thing to me from my long career as a Major League Baseball GM?…How generally disengaged & disconnected most players were from the free agency process…Most of the time the players had no idea what the offers were or where we were in the negotiating process” – MLB Network’s former long time GM, Dan O’Dowd.
Its scary how much trust players put into agents. The fate of their careers/lives are in the hands of a greedy shady businessman whose only concern is $$
It’s the union convincing the players they have to take the largest deal available so the next guy will get paid to much too.
Probably the worst offseason in franchise history.
Sometimes the move you don’t make is the correct one. Don’t forget were at record payroll for the 2nd year. Need to save money for.Bo and Vlad. Unfortunately in 2020-2023 this core didn’t work out and that’s baseball for you.
IMO 2024 will be like Torontro
Be like Toronto 2021
2016-17 was worse.
Someone wasn’t around for the 1990s/2000s/2010s.
This OFFSEASON was worse than those. Especially when you consider where they are in the compete window.
Jays were in the ALCS in 2015 and 2016, going further than the 2022 and 2023 teams. They needed two corner OFs and settled on Bautista and Pearce, the latter who can’t play the field. Needed to replace EE and got Morales who was a permanent DH, That window wasn’t closed, and if it was they should have tore it down immediately that offseason.
I agree this offseason was bad. That 2016-17 offseason was pure negligence acquiring 3 DH players after being so close to two World Series appearances.
You must be a new or young fan. Lots of bad off-seasons in past, especially when team owner was sold to InBev which had no interest in baseball and likely wondered why the Blue Jays weren’t a soccer (‘football’, they were pure Belgian back in 1994) team and slashed payroll.
This off-season the Blue Jays filled all the holes with skilled players, not over-priced ones. Unlike the Yankees they didn’t trade away all their best pitching prospects.
Go to Spring Training. You’ll see it’s mostly about getting in season shape and giving pitchers enough opportunities to find their “stuff” or work in even more pitches (e.g. Swiss army knife Bassitt).
mlbfan- Whereas I’ve never met Boras, I’ve also never met a player that lets their agent dictate the “demands”!!!
There’s almost no dispute that he isn’t anything more than a slimy lawyer, but I give him credit. He is the most successful player agent ever.
We’re all baseball guys and gals, so we appreciate the stats, right? The stats get respect because they don’t lie.
Problem with Boras from my standpoint is his eternal inflating of contracts to detriment of baseball and as this year showed, to detriment of his clients.
You’re a baseball player. Everyone tells you how special you are. But an agent promises to turn those promises into gold, until he/she can’t. Sitting in a corporate boardroom as you contemplate your future, those promises always sound sweet. Anyone who has ever been pitched or pitched a deal in a corporate tower knows the feeling.
My prediction? Other agents will gain more business in next year.
Atkins is a very bad GM. Bo and Vlad are also FA after 2025 season so full scorched earth rebuild coming.
Atkins a good GM, au contraire. Bo was extended two years ago and has delivered. He’s a keeper long-term and they’ll keep him. Led AL 2 years in hits. Good team player.
Vlad hasn’t lived up to his promise and if he fails to do so again I see a trade before he goes via FA. Let someone else pay the buffet bill.
No scorched earth re-build. The Jays are in process of staying competitive while they change the tires in quick off-season pit stops. Budget opens up again after next two years and a solid group of prospects working its way through farm for 2025-27.
Bo should have been extended through beyond 2030. This regime has squandered a lot, starting with the 2016-17 offseason to fumbling the rebuild to the Grichuk extension and beyond. It’s why they’ve won zero postseason games since 2016, against inferior teams the last two postseason appearances.
Given where they are in their window and their renovations + drastic increase in ticket prices, I honestly could not imagine a worse offseason.
The ceiling for the this team is not a division winner and they are 1-2 injuries away from a last place finish.
Giving Chapman $150-mil for 6 years would have been worse.
Somebody else who listens to the Debbie Downers on Twitter/X.
hehe
The Mariners really could of used Chapman, I don’t understand why they didn’t make that move.
Just a friendly reminder that Players decide where to sign, Rumors!
Well, partly true. Players only get to decide between teams that have made offers. If a team doesn’t want a player, they ain’t going there.
Of course, hiflew. I haven’t heard of any Mariner’s offers, to be completely fair.
That’s enough, gwynning
Chapman just LOOKS like he should be a good baseball player. I won’t miss the swing and miss.
Turning down 120 mil to end up with 50 mil is a massive fumble. Boras taking big L’s here
“Turning down 120 mil…Boras taking big L’s here”…It’s no skin off Scott Boras’ back. He didn’t lose anything, his clients did and he’s got plenty of suckers, I mean clients. Scott’s got enough clients to continue pursuing these highly risky, questionable signing strategies of waiting till the money is mostly gone to act.
Do you guys honestly think Boras turned down every offer, just willy-nilly… or he presented his client(s) with the offers and waited for their ultimate answer?
I think Boras told his client he would get more if he went into free agency instead of signing an extension. He never wants his clients to sign extensions. This is a HUGE L for Boras piggybacked on Bellinger. SB is losing a lot of luster.
Man, if that deal was indeed offered by the Blue Jays, then Scott Boras just cost almost 70 million dollars for Chapman. Take heed other players enticed by Boras Corporation’s services…
This is the real story.
The Blue Jays are in a better position than the Giants right now because they were willing to sign Gausman to long term deal. Sure he only has 2 pitches , but they work.
One of Farhan’s bigger mistakes
“Most successful player agent ever”..I would beg to differ. Several Scott Boras clients(Machado, Harper, Trey T, Gerrit Cole, Strasburg… etc..) could gain top of market money with a trained chimp as their player agent. Many of the rest end up in purgatory or career suicide to get their paychecks. Guys like Kris Bryant, Matt Harvey, J.Profar, Manny Ramirez etc…Boras is only “successful” if you measure money and ignore personal happiness, “fit”, health and career success…For that last argument, see Kris Bryant, Matt Harvey, Barry Zito, Manny Ramirez or Anthony Rendon.
How are any of those factors the agent’s fault?
“Agent’s fault”…Pretty much all of it since an agent is paid for his experience and expertise at reading, predicting and analyzing the market. An agent should know the teams intimately and accurately analyze the best fit with the most $$ available. If you hired a CPA to do your taxes and you ended up going to jail for tax fraud, wouldn’t you think the CPA bears a majority of the blame?
A CPA’s job is to do things legally. An agent isn’t doing anything illegal, so the analogy fails. His job is to get the best offers and let the client approve of which one he likes. That’s often going to be about who’s giving the most money, but even if it’s not, it’s not like Boras forced his guys to go anywhere.
But even ignoring if he picked a place a guy didn’t like, you’re really going to throw injuries in there? Really? Boras went and gave Harvey thoracic outlet? He forced Manny to decline from age and take juice?
The CPA is there to do things for best outcome of client. That can include finding and exploiting loopholes, flying as close to the wind as possible, giving superior business asset advice, etc. It’s a good analogy.
An agent isn’t a neutral errand/courier between player and teams. He/she pushes the market, makes grandiose claims about teams and their willingness to be competive, etc. Just review the Boras pronouncements at each Winter Meetings and how the baseball media hang on his every word as he attempts to pressure teams and show his clients he’s the guy that knows his stuff. But even a great poker player can overplay his hands. And that’s what people are saying.
Many teams have lost their main income source with demise of cable cabals. That has affected the player market. As has the fails of players vs promises over the years.
Teams now use analytics more than promises. Some over-rely on analytics (but it’s hard to prove that).
I agree that the best CPA would maximize gains by doing things for his client outside of just checkbook-balancing, but the analogy wasn’t that, or I would have agreed. Agents can also be like realtors in this regard, and so forth. But he didn’t say the CPA was just doing that stuff. He said he got busted for fraud, which is not comparable. And while a lot of people who use accountants probably cede their decision-making completely over to them for that process, here, it’s not like Boras forces someone to go anywhere.
And the point still stands that some of those gripes are complete hindsight. I don’t think Bryant or the Rockies went into the contract thinking, gee, I sure hope he plays only half the season at sub-replacement level.
When did these need to be so long? This is whT happens when you write an article weekly on said player. Each article adds a paragraph or 2. Turns in to March before player is signed. Here we are reading fluff. Just erase the old previous updates. New comments, that’s really what we’re here for.
Atkins inability to sign Vlad and Bichette will be his downfall. They have a 2 year window. Jays missing AA, sometimes you don’t know what you have until it’s gone!
Rogers chose Shapiro instead of AA. rip
Vlad Jr. is almost the opposite of an extension candidate right now.
AA was there as an underling and learned his craft. His only big year was 2015, then left on his own accord to Dodgers for a respite then inherited a fully stocked Braves team and has usually failed in the play-offs.
He may make a good team President some day, but was too young and inexperienced in 2015 to be the guy who made big decisions on upgrades in Toronto and Dunedin, and re-built the farm system he’d emptied.
AA was offered the GM role and turned it down. End of story.
Bo will get big $$, but if he doesn’t produce this year, Vlad won’t get it from Toronto. He’s been nothing but promise and promises, except in small ballpark summer of 2020. He has the pressure on his shoulders in 2024.
Not overly upset about Chapman. I cringe at the thought of IKF at 3rd. Watched a lot of Yankee games and he is less than average. However I agree this off season has been a bust. Since Atkins obviously doesn’t like someone who can swing a bat the one way he can redeem himself is by signing Snell.
Not sure which place I’d prefer to be in less Toronto or the Bay Area
That’s alright neither place wants you. Stay where ever you are and try not to reproduce.
Was that opinion formed 15 years ago ?
Was in san Fran for work a few weeks ago, Any place that needs to lock up deodorant and toothpaste due to theft is a joke. Couldn’t go 1 block with out seeing homeless, crime or filth.
I’m sure if you left your basement you’d agree
I’m not even America you fool. Your entire argument is based around your ability to argue with low IQ people. Guess what that makes you:)
Just remember you’re the other side of the coin you hate so much, any one clearly as political as you its a big tell that you have barely functioning brain. Listening to CNN is no different than listening to fox, a sheep is a sheep my friend. Take care
Sounds like your views are formed alone, masked, watching Rachel Maddow on your coach, downing ssri’s
…Says the idiot spewing cliches about alleged Fox News watchers. As if there are any real differences between the various fake news networks, lol
Yeah, some of us can only dream of living in a wonderful place where commodities are stolen on a regular basis. Lol
Ubaldo why are you still angry?
Obviously you know nothing about Toronto or Ontario beyond baseball.
Giants got a steal, unless he turns into Longoria 2.0 That would be the ultimate nightmare.
Yo Tig. I thought Chapman seemed like a strange signing. The loss of future value (#52-ish (?) Draft Pick and $500k International money) seems like a step backwards for a “building” club. Signing Chap seems like an “all-in” type maneuver that sacrifices future benefit. I say this assuming he Opts Out after ’24, which seems like a near certainty barring major injury. Cheers
Hey I’d MUCH rather play the kids, but at least he came relatively cheap in bucks and years. If a prospect or two step up they will force the hand of management. We all know Yaz and Conforto and Wade will end up on the IL by May and Fitzgerald and Schmitt will get their chances. Chap also comes in with much superior defense than LongorILa did when he unfortunately arrived.
The speed of a 21 year old Billy Hamilton combined with the defense of a 25 year old Roberto Alomar.
Amazing it took so much time for El Chapo to be signed.
Obviously I doubt that Orelvis Martinez makes the roster out of spring training, but it’s fair to believe he could match or beat the 17 homers and 51 RBIs that Chapman put up last year. I certainly would have signed Chapman to this exact type of deal if I was the Jays, but I also think they have some in house options that can beat Chapmans output from last season
Orelvis is being played primarily at second now, and it looks that way going forward.
That’s not the point, even from second base he could potentially beat Chapmans offensive output if given the chance to play in the majors all season. My point was Chapmans bat isn’t a big deal to replace
It is because you need people that play positions. You have a wasted spot in the lineup with IKF at 3B. It doesnt matter what the 2B does.
Justin Turner also plays 3B and is expected to play there, too. Addison Barger and Orelvis Martinez will be there within this year or next.
The Jays have done well over the years with platoons (remember Rance Mulliniks and Garth Iorg in the 1980s) and shared roles between Merrifield and Espinal more recently. Indeed they’ve put the focus somewhat on building a corps of utility players instead of specialists.
And they’ve now got good, experienced trade capital to help fine-tune themselves and others.
Orelvis is up with a good start and a bad start by Cavan/Schneider. Could be May 1, give or take.
Jays win on compensation alone — but yes how is their payroll so high? Would have been smarter to let KK walk and sign Michael A Taylor (& Solano instead of Turner) for half the price… those in-house options, like Schneider, Barger & Martinez will now have to wait for IL time
The 4 top starting pitchers make a combined $98 million this year. That’s about 44% of the total payroll.
Pitching wins games, as the Blue Jays proved last year when their hitters didn’t hit.
KK has a long record of dominating CF in the AL East (and AL overall) and while he makes it look easy, others make it look hard. Chapman would have been more of a barrier to Martinez and Barger, so once he said no to $120 millon for 6 years and the QO I doubt the Blue Jays were much in on him. It’s a relief really to lose his declining years.
I’d advise to hire local star Joey Votto as an extra bat if Vogelbach lacks it, for the bench
Good thing Chapman rejected that offer. He was anti clutch with us. We will miss the defense.
Hard to believe the Jays wouldn’t have matched or beat that contract Chapman just signed with the Giants had the Jays not already signed Kalefa and Turner. Both the player and team lost. Boras lost. No winners here just stupid greed.
Turner far better than Chapman when you weigh offense and defense.
Jays dodged a bullet here. $20mm a year for this guy isn’t gonna age well. Boras tactics backfired and I love that
The Jays gave Kalefa 7.5 million over 2 years and he’s not good at all. Worst case this is a 3 year deal for Chapman. The Jays would have been far better off if they had signed him.
The Jays in retrospect probably overpaid for IKF.
I actually believe when his 2 years are over (and if he doesnt get traded), IKF will turn out to be a useful overall productive player. He adds some speed, he can play many positions without sacrificing defense in a major way.
I was surprised to see his first 2 years in TEX he was a C for about 35 games each year. I doubt they use him there but he can be an emergency 3rd C, TOR only has to carry 2 C and can pinch hit for them if they want more often.
Sometimes GMs may misread the FA market and sometimes they get antsy and want to fill a need earlier in the offseason so they can concentrate on the rest of their plan.
I realize IKF doesn’t provide much power but he can involve himself in many rallies and be positive on the basepaths.
The season hasn’t started YET and a good GM can pick up a sparkplug off DFA or make a trade.
Cautiously optimistic Varsho will show improvement.
As an aside to TOR fans >>>Do you feel there is some bias that some players don’t want to sign in Canada due to currency, tax, culture and artificial turf issues which can lead to more injuries (and maybe a shortened career) … Some NOT ALL of course.
The tax thing is no where near as bad as it use to be. Cali taxes are pretty bad. They pay in USD, I don’t know where this misconception comes from that the Jays are paying in CDN. Culture what? Now the artificial turf I can see being an issue, but KK resigned and he never wanted to play on AT, yet here we are.
Have to wonder about the process of clearing customs travelling to and from the border. It’s probably minimal, but some might want less hassle with travel and opt to play for a US team. Maybe?
Canadian Dollar sits somewhere around .70-.75 cents US. Basically $25-mil Canadian is around $18-mil US. In a way, that should entice more players to consider Toronto since they’re paid in US currency. This means George Springer is paid $30+ million in Canadian dollars if he chose to exchange.
Also, appears to be new turf this year along with a mostly new stadium (new OF last year and new lower bowl and amenities this year, including new clubhouse, triple the training room space, etc.). And as turf tech matures it’s not like laying on pavement any more — the turf underlay is an impact absorbing product that is likely better for legs than the hard-packed fields under real grass).
Local spin will be: well “we” used Chapman money to land both IKF and Turner, making the team better.
Well seems like I’ am a definite minority here (lifelong Giants supporter). My comment has more to do with MLBTR’s reporting over recent years…plus the blatant homerism/ sensationalism click-bait nature of some of the newer “reporters” (BRING BACK JEFF TODD). Mark here admits to being a Jays’ homer…but he’s the first/only one at Trade Rumors who mentioned Chapman had a finger injury. The nature of these writers has DEFINITELY changed (see: A.F., T.T. et all). They lost my sub because of it; although Tim still provides an awesome service for us lifelong fans of MLB.
Make that T.C.Z (along with A.F.) instead of “T.T.””…Nick Deeds, along with Darren, are QUITE good, btw.
OOPS: make that Darragh, *not* Darren (kinda knew I was slightly “off”)! Sorry
I don’t know how their offseason went from aggressively pursuing Ohtani to IKF and Turner but here we are. They’re still good enough to make some noise but time is running out with this group and the window is getting closer to being shut
I think be reunited with Melvin was a deciding factor.
Chapman never considered toronto as a place to live.
He was never coming back
See the Jays finishing a close second to the O’s this season.
Chapman overrated, overpaid , declining skills … two desperate ships in the night found each other
“God I hate….”
I told you you were angry. Your words.
chapman looked pissed off at parts of the season. his leaving was probably less abt money than not wanting to he a jay. wouldn’t doubt it was the immaturity and lazy play he witnessed at times. this is my own speculation but watching him and schneider interact made me think chapman wasn’t a huge fan of his either.
Does anyone out there other than myself believe that since Atkins does not like signing power bats that by signing Snell he could still salvage this offseason. Our good pitching staff would evolve to a great pitching staff. Any thoughts?
Chapman spent all those years in Oakland. Going home was a no brainer for him.