Yanks, Twins Discussing Santana
As a rumor website I feel obligated to link to this. The Yankees and Twins are talking about a Johan Santana trade, Hank Steinbrenner confirmed it.
This is a non-story; I don’t have much to add. We have all known about these discussions for quite a while now. It’s odd that Steinbrenner talked about them publicly; would Brian Cashman find that helpful at all?
My feeling is that if the Yankees can engineer a trade for Santana without surrendering Robinson Cano, Phil Hughes, or Joba Chamberlain, they’ve pulled off a steal.
Heyman’s Latest: Piazza, Matthews, Milledge
SI.com’s Jon Heyman checks in with a new Daily Scoop column full of rumors.
- A lot of the standard trade talk we’ve seen regarding Miguel Cabrera, Johan Santana, Miguel Tejada, and Dan Haren. All these guys require two good young players or more in a trade.
- Mike Piazza is considering DHing in Japan if he doesn’t find anything he likes in the U.S.
- Heyman talked to an AL exec who speculated that the Angels may try to unload Gary Matthews Jr. GMJ makes $9MM in ’08, $10MM in ’09, $11MM in ’10, and $12MM in ’11. He currently has a full no-trade clause.
- Juan Uribe and Vicente Padilla are two salary-dump types whose names have surfaced in recent trade talks (unrelated to each other). Padilla is owed $24.75MM over the next two seasons.
- Heyman believes the Mets are very willing to trade Lastings Milledge and have discussed him often.
- We knew the Mets had discussed Ramon Hernandez and Gerald Laird. Heyman adds the Nats’ Brian Schneider to the mix. He makes $4.9MM in ’08 and another $4.9MM in ’09.
Odds and Ends: Santana, Hunter
Let’s kick off the morning with some odds and ends, absent any earth-shattering rumors. I’ll keep adding to this post.
- Awesome inside look at the Torii Hunter deal via Bob Nightengale. Hunter’s first choice outside of Minnesota was the Cardinals, but they weren’t interested.
- Hunter – not overpaid? So says J.C. Bradbury.
- Still some confusion about Johan Santana‘s no-trade clause. Buster Olney says it’s full and doesn’t indicate that the rights change on any certain date. Matthew Cerrone says it’s a full NTC only until Opening Day ’08, when it switches to 12 teams. Those are not mutually exclusive comments, so I guess we’ll see.
- Phil Rogers doesn’t think the Cubs will re-sign Kerry Wood. He also sees the Giants in the lead for Miguel Cabrera now.
- My coworker Jonathan makes a good point – thought the Sox wouldn’t give four-year deals to pitchers? They made a huge fuss over Mark Buehrle. Suddenly Scott Linebrink is worthy of breaking the rule again? Some are skeptical.
- Bobby Kielty typically smacks around left-handed pitching (Brian Fuentes for example). He’ll hook on as some team’s fourth outfielder as a free agent. He’d like to return to Boston, but that would require a Coco Crisp trade. Rob Bradford names the Twins, Braves, Rangers, and White Sox as possibilities otherwise.
Would You Trade Delmon Young For Matt Garza?
I linked to this article earlier in regards to Francisco Liriano, but I missed a bit at the end:
Trade rumor that won’t die: Twins pitcher Matt Garza for Tampa Bay outfielder Delmon Young.
I can definitely see the positives for both sides in this deal. Garza would give the Rays another MLB-ready young pitcher to add to Scott Kazmir and James Shields. They also have Jason Hammel, J.P. Howell, Andy Sonnastine, and the six-foot-nine monster Jeff Niemann likely to break camp with the team. Arranging those guys between the rotation and the bullpen could work out for the Rays. The move would also allow them to slot Elijah Dukes in right field. Or hey, unlikely as it is, maybe Rocco Baldelli stays healthy (yeah, right).
The Twins would be adding a power bat in Young, a much-needed piece. A trade of Garza likely wouldn’t hold them back from trading Johan Santana, since they’d likely receive a starter in such a deal that could be plugged into the rotation in 2008 (Clay Buchholz/Jon Lester, Phil Hughes, Chad Billingsley, Mike Pelfrey/Phil Humber).
Does anyone see any aspects that would make this deal uneven? Let’s crank out the discussion.
Joe Pawlikowski is co-author of River Ave. Blues.
Odds And Ends: Cabrera, Bay, Liriano, Clement, Dotel
Lots to go over this morning, so this might not be the last bullet point list you see.
- The Angels and Marlins are progressing in talks for Miguel Cabrera. It’s believed that the Angels are willing to deal players like Reggie Willits, Howie Kendrick, and Jeff Mathis, but the sticking point here is the inclusion of Nick Adenhart. If the Angels want Cabrera, I would have to think Adenhart would be a part of any deal.
- Pirates GM Neal Huntington says that he is not actively shopping any of his players. However, he acknowledges that if he hears an offer, he’ll have to consider it. Some of his team’s asking prices are "outrageous," he says. This includes players like Jason Bay and Jack Wilson. But the Pirates may choose in the end to dish Bay, since their strength, if any, is the outfield, and Bay is slated to make $13.25 million over the next two years. That might not seem like a lot, but it’s costly when you’re working with a paltry $50 million budget. Surely Huntington would love to deal Wilson, though he denies it. He might have trouble finding a partner on that one.
- Though the Twins deny it, any Johan Santana deal might be dependent on the status of Francisco Liriano. The 24-year-old "hasn’t had a single setback" in his recovery from ligament replacement surgery last October. He’s completed his rehab program, and might pitch in the Dominican this winter. He’s expected to be ready in February fo Spring Training.
- Add the Pirates to the list of teams interested in Matt Clement. It now spans the Rockies, Diamondbacks, Royals, Padres, and Blue Jays in addition to the Bucs. However, with their payroll cap, Clement might not be feasible.
- The Tigers remain interested in closer Octavio Dotel. There is no word on whether the team has offered him a contract.
Joe Pawlikowski is co-author of River Ave. Blues.
Santana Has Full No-Trade Clause
The fine Cot’s Baseball Contracts site indicates that Johan Santana only received full no-trade protection for 2008 if he finished top three in the Cy Young voting. However, I do not believe that is accurate.
There are multiple reports from good reporters with solid sourcing indicating that Santana has a full no-trade clause. There’s Kat O’Brien, Buster Olney, Michael Silverman, and Joe Christensen all saying it’s full. It’s safe to assume that Santana controls his own fate and can kill any deal. Perhaps he’d just want compensation to waive the clause, or perhaps he’d demand a record contract extension worth over $20MM per year.
Graziano On A Yankees/Santana Trade
Recently I asked the Newark Star-Ledger’s Dan Graziano about a realistic scenario under which the Yankees could acquire Johan Santana. His take was a bit different than the standard packages we’ve been hearing. The Yankees have already had talks with the Twins and are expected to make a strong offer.
MLBTR: Give us your take on a reasonable trade package for Johan Santana that the Yankees would consider offering and the Twins would consider accepting.
Dan Graziano: The Twins will need at least one good, proven, major-league player and a couple of prospects in exchange if they decide to deal Santana. Many people have suggested that the Yankees would need to include Robinson Cano in a deal, and that’s certainly possible. But the Twins have a
young player (Alexi Casilla) they believe can play second base, and their greater need may be in the outfield, especially with Torii Hunter now gone off to Anaheim.
To that end, Melky Cabrera might be more appealing to the Twins than Cano. Let’s assume the Yankees don’t want to include Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes in the deal (though Santana might be the only player for whom they’d consider dealing one of those guys), and that Brian Cashman also wants to hold onto Ian Kennedy. The next best pitcher in the Yankees’ system is probably Alan Horne. I’m thinking the Yankees could offer a package of Cabrera, Horne and outfield prospect Jose Tabata for Santana. That could be appealing to the Twins, though they might ask for a better pitcher than Horne (or another, such as Marquez, in addition to him), though it would depend on the packages being offered by other interested teams such as the Mets and Red Sox.
The thing to remember in dealing with the Twins, however, is that they might not always be after the prospects everybody knows about. The Twins pride themselves on being able to identify and acquire big-time prospects at the Class A level. Players who have come to the Twins’ system at the A-ball level over the years include Jason Bartlett, Lew Ford and Joe Mays, as well as Johan Santana himself and a skinny little hitter whose name at the time was David Arias but later changed his last name to Ortiz and went on to achieve some measure of fame with the Boston Red Sox.
Earlier this year, when the Mets and Twins were talking trade for Luis Castillo, we were trying to figure out who the Mets might have to give up. We were thinking of usual suspects like Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber, but the Twins ended up dealing Castillo for AA catcher Drew Butera and Class A outfielder Dustin Martin. These were guys I didn’t know much about, but I’m not going to be surprised if Dustin Martin ends up being a good big-leaguer someday. The Twins’ scouts can spot talent when it’s very young. So there may be some players in the Yankees’ system (and in those of other interested teams) that the Twins would like and we don’t even know about yet.
Heyman: Twins Only Offered Santana Four Years
Update: Joe Christensen clears things up. The original report of five years, $93 million was essentially a four year extension at $20 million per. The extra year and $13 million will be what Santana makes in 2008.
Contrary to what’s been reported, John Heyman of SI reports that the Twins offered Johan Santana just four years, not the previously reported five. The offer was reportedly worth $80 million, which puts it short of the five years and $93 million we’d been hearing since last weekend. It would exceed that offer, though, in terms of average annual value.
Heyman speculates that the Twins and Santana could be $50 million or more apart, increasing the likelihood that the left-handed ace will be dealt, possibly as soon as the Winter Meetings, which begin December 3rd. Just judging from past Winter Meetings, I’d find it surprising if a team was able to broker such a deal that week. If we’re going to see Santana traded, it might take some more time.
From there, Heyman lists the teams we’ve all heard a thousand times as suitors for Santana: Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers. And he also lists their trade chips, which we’ve also heard plenty of times before.
My take is that the Twins won’t accept anything less than two elite prospects and another one or two slightly lesser, but still high-profile talents. The teams with the best hitters might win out, since the Twins are stocked with pitching.
Should an acceptable offer not emerge, the Twins could head into the season with a rotation of Santana, Francisco Liriano, Matt Garza, Boof Bonser, and Kevin Slowey. Glenn Perkins is another option, should one of the bottom two prove ineffective or become injured. That rotation would be among the tops in the AL, and would probably help the Twins contend in 2008. However, they’re certainly going to need another bat or two. We’ve seen reports that Garza could be shopped with those intentions.
Joe Pawlikowski is co-author of River Ave. Blues.
Santana Counters Twins’ Offer
Sid Hartman was correct – Joe Christensen confirms today that the Twins did offer Johan Santana a five-year, $93MM deal (18.6MM annually). The pact was designed to top Carlos Zambrano‘s by $1.5MM. Problem is that Santana isn’t 1.6% better than Zambrano. He’s a lot better than Z.
Santana countered by asking for $126MM, according to Christensen. His article implies that Santana asked for seven years in the counterproposal, since Santana’s agent cited Barry Zito‘s deal and the dollar amount is the same. The Twins balked at the counteroffer and expect to trade Santana. This doesn’t compute, because the sides seem close. I wonder – maybe Santana actually asked for $126MM over five years? Santana could be a $25MM man on the open market, and maybe he’s not offering a hometown discount. If Christensen’s source told him the number of years, he would’ve put that in the article.
Michael Silverman notes that the Red Sox will certainly be involved if the Twins start entertaining offers. An offer of Coco Crisp, Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester, and a third solid prospect might be their proposal. Seems that the Yanks might offer Melky Cabrera and Phil Hughes, while the Mets would start with Carlos Gomez.
Christensen’s article also adds that the Twins recently swapped contract proposals with closer Joe Nathan. Even at a discount Nathan would have to ask for four years, $40MM.
Stark’s Latest: Santana, Hamilton, Snell
Ah, a new Rumblings and Grumblings from Jayson Stark. Let’s dig in.
- It sounds like the Yankees would discuss Phil Hughes and the Red Sox might part with one of Ellsbury/Lester/Buchholz to acquire Johan Santana. The acquiring team would need an extension window though. The Mets are in on Santana big-time and would have to give up Carlos Gomez and then some. If the Twins do trade Santana, they would probably hang onto Matt Garza. But otherwise Garza could be traded for a young hitter, as we’ve been hearing.
- The Fish want four 0-3 players for Miguel Cabrera, pretty much the names we’ve been tossing around here at MLBTR for a while.
- The Marlins would ask for two 0-3 guys for Dontrelle Willis, but aren’t inclined to trade him unless they’re blown away. Stark names the Mets, Mariners, and D’Backs as suitors. So think Gomez, Adam Jones, or Carlos Gonzalez.
- The Orioles and Cardinals don’t want to eat any money on Miguel Tejada and Scott Rolen, respectively. The Cards were asking for too much from the Yanks for Rolen – one of their top three young pitchers (you know the trio).
- The Reds are willing to trade Ryan Freel or Josh Hamilton to clear space for Jay Bruce.
- Ian Snell could be available. It’s not the first time his name has appeared in the rumor mill. Hell, Snell for Hamilton kind of makes sense.