Reds Rumors: Cairo, Hernandez, Rhodes, Arroyo

Reds GM Walt Jocketty told John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer that he doesn’t expect to sign a big name free agent this winter. Carl Crawford and Cliff Lee will likely be playing elsewhere next year, though the Reds will boost payroll in 2011.

“I’m always trying to do something, but [signing a top free agent] would be pretty tough,” Jocketty said.

The Reds have had preliminary talks with the agents for Miguel Cairo, Ramon Hernandez and Arthur Rhodes, but Jocketty says he hasn’t yet exchanged potential salaries. The Reds have not spoken to Bronson Arroyo about an extension since picking up his option last week and they are not currently discussing long-term deals with Joey Votto or Jay Bruce.

Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports wrote yesterday that he expected the Reds to complete a two-year extension with Arroyo this week. Jocketty has said he'd like to reach a deal before the 2011 season begins, but the potential contract may not become a priority until later this offseason.

Odds & Ends: Duchscherer, Bruce, Nolasco, Votto

Some links as the Rangers look to close out the Yankees at home..

Votto Unsure Of Interest In Long-Term Deal

Over the past few seasons, Joey Votto has built up a reputation as one of the National League's best hitters. This season, he's exploded for a .323/.423/.598 slash line with 37 home runs, carrying the Reds to the postseason for the first time in 15 years. He's a frontrunner for the NL MVP award, but according the Cincinnati Enquirer's John Fay, the Reds' superstar "doesn't know" if he's interested in signing a long-term deal.

The club has yet to approach Votto about an extension. And, while Votto may be uncertain for the time being about the prospect of a long-term deal, let's look at his situation a little more in-depth.

Votto will be arbitration eligible for the first time this offseason, and as Fay points out, an MVP trophy (or even a runner-up finish) certainly looks nice in arbitration hearings. Ryan Howard won his case and was awarded a $10MM salary following his MVP season, though he had a Rookie of the Year trophy to his name (Votto finished second in 2008) and gaudier HR and RBI totals. Fellow Canadian and 2006 AL MVP Justin Morneau had more similar numbers in his MVP season and signed for $4.5MM in his first year of arbitration, following that MVP effort.

The second time around, Howard inked a three-year deal worth $54MM rather than going through arbitration again. Morneau, who had a down year in 2007, avoided arbitration and signed for $7.4MM in his second year before erasing that deal and agreeing to a six-year, $80MM contract prior to the 2008 season. Votto could fit somewhere between the two MVP first basemen in terms of both years and dollars. As MLBTR's Ben Nicholson-Smith pointed out in examining Votto's extension candidacy in late August, the next three years could cost the Reds in the neighborhood of $30MM one way or another.

Votto's tear has continued since then, however, and in his article, Fay suggests Votto will submit a $10MM figure in arbitration this offseason. If that ends up being the case, Votto's arbitration years could cost in the neighborhood of $35MM or more.

There's no way to accurately predict the value of a contract for Votto, but contracts of some of his peers suggest that signing for five years at $15MM-$16MM per season might be fair for both sides. That would all depend though, on Votto's decision between signing or going year-to-year and hitting free agency at age 30. If that's the route he chooses, he could be in line for a mammoth Mark Teixeira-type contract on the open market.

Joey Votto: Extension Candidate

Walt Jocketty knows a thing or two about extending young, MVP-caliber first basemen. The Reds GM signed Albert Pujols to his current seven-year $100MM deal in 2004, back when he was running the Cardinals. This winter, Jocketty will have to consider offering an extension to another productive young first baseman, one who has led the Reds to the top of the NL Central standings.

Joey Votto would be leading the NL in every triple crown category if it weren't for Pujols. The Reds first baseman, who homered twice and singled in the go-ahead run in yesterday's marathon win, is having himself an MVP-caliber season. Not only does he lead the league in batting average, he has higher on base and slugging percentages that any other NL player.

Votto had put together two-plus productive major league seasons heading into 2010 and he's now about to go to arbitration for the first time. I suggested Monday that Votto could reasonably ask for $7MM through arbitration next year, but what if the Reds decide to offer him an extension? How much would they have to offer the soon-to-be-27-year-old to keep him around long-term?

It depends, of course, on certain variables. The Reds could attempt to buy out any number of free agent years, may want to add an option year or two and could even include incentives or bonuses. It would be foolish to try to predict the details of a possible extension, but we can safely attempt to determine how much Votto can expect to earn for his three seasons of arbitration eligibility.

As this chart shows, Votto has produced like Pujols, Miguel Cabrera, Justin Morneau, Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder and Mark Teixeira had at the same points in their respective careers. Those first basemen each made between $4.5-10MM for their first arbitration season and between $7.4-15MM for their second arbitration season. The comparisons are imperfect, but they gives us a sense of the kind of money Votto can make. 

Fielder and Teixeira made $15-20MM for their first two seasons of arbitration, so if the Reds valued Votto's first two arbitration seasons similarly and offered a proportionate raise for 2013, they'd be looking at a $30MM price tag for their first baseman's next three seasons. It wouldn't make sense for the Reds to offer an extension unless they thought they were getting a fair deal, so they may not make a proposal at all. But whether they extend Votto or not, his next three seasons could cost them about $30MM.

Joey Votto’s 2011 Salary

The Reds may or may not offer Joey Votto an extension this winter, but he's setting himself up for a massive raise, even if Cincinnati doesn't offer a long-term deal. Votto leads the National League in batting average, on base percentage and slugging percentage and is second in RBI and third in home runs. He's just three homers and three RBI away from leading the league in every triple crown category and has a 1.023 OPS since the All-Star break, so he's showing no signs of slowing down.

The Reds have enjoyed three-plus seasons of dirt-cheap production from their first baseman, but that's about to change. Votto goes to arbitration for the first time this winter and he's comparable to a group of first basemen that earned significant raises in their first seasons of arbitration.

To determine how much Votto can expect to earn in 2011, let's compare his numbers to the ones some current first basemen had entering their first seasons of arbitration. Here are the stats Albert Pujols, Miguel Cabrera, Justin Morneau, Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder and Mark Teixeira had leading up to their first arbitration seasons, plus the salaries they ultimately agreed to. 

  Reds Votto
 

Please note that Fielder, Teixeira, and Pujols signed multi-year deals that included their first seasons of arbitration. 'Age' shows the player's age at the time of the signing, not his current age.

Votto’s rate stats are comparable to Cabrera’s, but Votto has played significantly fewer games than Cabrera had. Fellow-Canadian Justin Morneau had similar homer and RBI totals to the ones Votto has now, but worse rate stats.

Howard and Morneau, both super twos, parlayed MVP seasons into substantial raises, but Morneau settled for a modest $4.5MM salary, whereas Howard signed for a record-setting $10MM. Votto, an MVP candidate this season, could ask for something in between. It would not be unreasonable for him to seek a $7MM salary through arbitration this offseason if he keeps hitting like this.

Odds & Ends: Prior, Votto, Gaudin, Hendry, Rangers

Links for Thursday, as we wait to see how much more damage Vladimir Guerrero will inflict upon the Angels tonight…

Odds & Ends: Embree, Rizzo, Votto, Rollins, Huffman

Links for Thursday…

Discussion: Joey Votto Extension

We haven't heard anything about the Reds considering an extension offer for first baseman Joey Votto, but he's high on our speculative list of candidates.

Votto, 26, finished second in the Rookie of the Year voting in 2008 and followed with an even better performance in his second full season.  Unfortunately, issues related to the passing of Votto's father affected him early in '09.

Votto will be eligible for arbitration for the first time after this season.  The Reds signed him for $550K for 2010, throwing several extra tens of thousands his way in the name of goodwill.  Let's consider a few possible comparables for Votto:

  • Adam Lind recently signed a four-year, $18MM deal with the Blue Jays with three club options.  He gave up his three arbitration years for $15MM.  The option years cover his first three years of free agent eligibility and are in the $7-8MM range.  At this stage in their careers Votto has the batting average advantage, home runs are about even, and Lind wins in RBIs and runs.  Votto's other advantages: a strong rookie season and the ability to play a respectable first base.  Lind has split his time between left field and DH.
  • Kevin Youkilis signed a four-year, $41.125MM deal in January of '09.  The deal bought out two remaining arbitration years and two free agent seasons, with a club option on a third.  The difference is that Youkilis was less accomplished in every way when he reached arbitration for the first time, and the Red Sox didn't lock him up until a year later. 
  • Mark Reynolds was signed with 1689 plate appearances across roughly 2.8 seasons whereas Votto will have roughly 1870 across 3.2 seasons.  Plus Reynolds was signed a year prior to arbitration-eligibility.  Reynolds' three arbitration years went for $23.5MM, assuming the D'Backs pick up his 2013 option.
  • Prince Fielder gave up his first two arbitration years for $18MM.  This is another tough comp because with three years service time, Fielder outpaced where I project Votto to be in all categories except batting average.  Plus, Scott Boras drove a hard bargain and didn't give up Fielder's third arb year or any free agent years.
  • Ryan Zimmerman stacks up OK, although he had a .282 average and 58 home runs at the time of his deal against a projected .308 and 83 for Votto.  He gave up the same five-year slice of his career the Reds might crave for Votto, at a price of $45MM.
  • I think a five-year deal in the $50MM range would make sense for the Reds and Votto.  He'd give up his three arbitration years for roughly $22MM, plus a couple of free agent years for $14MM each.  Of course, a lot depends on Votto's 2010 season.  Keeping CHONE's rates but upping the at-bats to 575, Votto is projected for something like a .303 average, 29 home runs, 99 RBIs, and 85 runs.

Discussion: Yonder Alonso

Cincinnati has a long tradition of National League baseball, but the Yonder Alonso situation must make Reds fans wish for the designated hitter rule.  Reds manager Dusty Baker and GM Walt Jocketty both spoke about Alonso's future at the team's spring camp in Arizona today, and MLB.com's Mark Sheldon sums up the situation within a larger piece about Alonso's development.

The basic problem is that Alonso, the top prospect in Cincinnati's system, is blocked at his natural first base position by the Reds' best player, Joey Votto.  As John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer points out, Alonso will be out of options after the 2011 season since he signed a major league contract for five years and worth $4.55MM after being taken seventh overall in the 2008 June Amateur Draft.

At one point it seemed as if Votto, who has some experience playing in left, would move back to the outfield when Alonso was ready for the majors.  But as Fay notes, Votto "doesn’t want to move and he’s worked hard at first base."  Fangraphs lists Votto as having an above-average 3.8 UZR/150 rating at first base, though it's taken from a sample size of just 291 games.

As Sheldon and Fay both report, Alonso has been worked out this spring as a corner outfielder and at third base, where he would presumably serve as the heir apparent to Scott Rolen if all things worked out perfectly for the Reds.  There has even been some talk of trying out Alonso at catcher.

Provided that Alonso doesn't sink to Incaviglia-esque depths in left or right field, he should be able to handle life away from first.  But if the position switch doesn't take or, even worse, affects Alonso's bat, then the Reds have a real issue on their hands.  Alonso's name popped up in the Rolen trade talks with Toronto last summer, and there would be no shortage of teams that would be interested in acquiring the young slugger if he were put on the market. 

The other alternative, albeit the more unlikely one, is that Votto would be traded.  Votto is eligible for arbitration after 2010 and is under team control through 2013; combine that with his proven major league production and the Reds could net a gold mine of players and prospects in a deal.  But, Votto's big league track record is exactly the reason why it's far more probable that Cincinnati would hold onto him and move Alonso if it came to a choice between the two.

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