Yanks, D'Backs Close On Unit?

According to the New York Daily News, the Diamondbacks and Yankees could finish a Randy Johnson trade this weekend.

Arizona will need to talk to Johnson to extend his contract through 2008, pretty much guaranteeing he gets his 300th win as a Diamondback.  The Yankees want one of Dustin Nippert, Micah Owings, and Ross Ohlendorf.  Nippert seems to be the prize of the trio.

Meanwhile, the Yankees are getting closer to signing Doug Mientkiewicz to play first base and could also snag Mark Loretta as a utility infielder.

On the other hand, a source told the Newark Star-Ledger that there's "nothing imminent" on RJ but things could be resolved within a week anyway.

Comments

[melyrules]

It's similar to the sheffield deal, exept this deal involves the yankees trading a pitcher insted.

[bobo]

Yes, but we didn't have room for Sheffield, and we do need this pitcher.

I don't like it. The article actually says we want 2 out of those pitchers. If that's the case, I suppose it's better, if we get either Cruz or Medders with them.

[toshiro]

Are the Yankees returning to the strategy they had in the 80's?

They trade Sheff when he could have played DH (forget about Melky, please). Pass on Zito ("too much money", puh-leeaze). And are trying to trade Big Unit for prospects.

"the Yankees are getting closer to signing Doug Mientkiewicz".

this shouldn't even be a headline. Mientz blows, period. You need a stick at 1st in the AL East, not a glove (see Travis Lee).

[melyrules]

Is Nippert a #1 pithing prodpect kinds of guy? Though I really like how the Yankees are going after all these prospects. It really shows that were not just a greedy, all-star dominant team. Well, we have spent alot of money in past years, But trading Johnson would shed some salary so the mets cant say that the yankees are just a bunch of rich bastards who buy there talent on subway series special shows. I'd LOVE to see Hughes, Sanchez, an maybe Tabata on the Yankees starting roster in 08'. Also, Hughes seems similar to Clemens in alot of ways, perhaps getting clemens would help Hughes alot.

[Kramerica Industries]

"Pass on Zito ("too much money", puh-leeaze). And are trying to trade Big Unit for prospects. "

well the Yankees offered him 17 million per year over 7 seasons

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/484085p-407483c.html

"this shouldn't even be a headline. Mientz blows, period. You need a stick at 1st in the AL East, not a glove (see Travis Lee)."

There is not one power hitting firstbaseman in the AL East. Youk in Boston. Winginton(sorry for the spelling) in Tampa, Kevin Millar in Baltimore and Overbay in Toronto. None of those guys scare me with the stick there decent but not that great and Doug by far is the best defensive

[Kramerica Industries]

"well the Yankees offered him 17 million per year over 7 seasons"

bad wording in the post above that makes it differnet from what it actually says.

it was supposed to say "the Yankees WERE offered 17 million per over 7 seasons."

[Yanksfan1987]

Kramerica,
"well the Yankees offered him 17 million per year over 7 seasons"

I think had you read the story more carefully you would have seen that the Yanks DECLINED to offer Zito the money. See below (from the article you provided).

"Zito's father, Joe, called the Yankees and said if the team offered $17 million per year for seven years, his son would like to sign with them. The Yankees declined, the source said."

[diamondbacker]

PLEASE NO!! I'd love RJ back but the Yanks are waaaaay too greedy. I wouldn't even do Owings for RJ straight up - he showed a lot of composure in the AAA championship game and has star potential. I want RJ back, but for much less.
My Idea:
Luis Vizcaino
Jorge Julio
Ross Ohlendorf
for
Randy Johnson
At least 9 million in cash or pitching prospect

[melyrules]

"PLEASE NO!! I'd love RJ back but the Yanks are waaaaay too greedy"

If the yankees are trying to trade johnson and shed salary to get rooks like they did with sheff, that dosent make them greedy.

[Not Joe Morgan]

Toshiro, I think I disagree with everything you wrote.
1. Yes, Melky is overhyped by too many people on here, I grant you that. However, his 2006 proved he has the ability to be a productive every day player; to ignore this is worse than overforecasting him.
2. Zito was too much and, more importantly, for too long. At $80MM over 5 years I would have agreed with you and say they should have played. 7 is way too long, especially with Zambrano popping free next offseason.
3. As someone pointed out, a power 1B in the AL East (or anywhere) is not a necessity. When you have a MIF of Jeter and Cano and Posada at catcher you can afford a weak bat at 1B if the tradeoff is a strong glove.

[melyrules]

Not Joe Morgan,
I thought you said you disagreed with all of toshiro's statements.

[bobo]

Agreed about 1B. Reasons why Mientkiewicz makes sense:

1) His defense, especially considering the Yankees' groundball staff

2) Still a pretty good OBP vs. RH pitchers

3) 1B is an easy position to upgrade at mid-season. Absolute worst case, they can let Giambi play there and get virtually any hitter to DH.

4) Platoons are the new OBP (courtesy of Roto).

Diamondbacker - how would you rate all the pitching prospects discussed (those 3 plus the 2 Gonzalez)? I was never really impressed by any of them, but apparently Nippert's reputation is pretty good.

But there's no way we're including anywhere near that much money if that's all we're getting. And we wouldn't take Julio for free.

[Kyle]

Sickles rated Owings their #6 prospect and #1 pitcher, Nippert came in at #9 overall, #3 pitcher, and Ohlendorf came in at #20.

I dont think this is an unfair deal at all. They gave up more for Doug Davis who is an inferior pitcher, given he is younger and cheaper. RJ though has more fan appeal and will help attendance as he approaches 300. He will probably also be the first Diamondback in the hall.

I expect the Yankees to eat a couple million, like maybe 3 million along with the deal for Owings and Ohlendorf. I think that is a fair deal.

The Yankees have enough offense to keep Mientkievicz around as the regular first baseman. If they also sign Loretta to be the utility man that could be an alright platoon. They need good defense and low strikeouts from first base. I mean the guy is going to be the #9 hitter. Also first base would be one of the easiest positions to upgrade mid season if they need to.

[ramaboy28]

Toshiro, you are a complete idiot.

Why the hell do the Yanks need a stick at first? Did you even see their lineup yet? 1-8 is absolutely crazy and they could have the shittiest hitter ever playing first as long as he plays defense which Mientkiewicz surely brings and then some.

Regarding the RJ trade, I wouldn't mind the Yanks taking two of those three prospects as long as Nippert is one of them. I have heard alot of people rave about this guy and thier saying he's a sure bet in the Majors. I also like Owings more than Olendorf so if the yanks could get him + Nippert for RJ, I would be content. However, this makes signing the Rocket alot more necessary because no one knows how Igawa will do and we all know Pavano well get into another car accident or hurt his ass or something so signing Clemens is imperative.

[darkstar1661]

So the fact that NY trades away two players with huge contracts because they want out of pinstripes shows they are not greedy?

Listen, their money still built this team, they bought almost every player on the roster and even those they drafted, they were only able to draft a couple guys because they knew they would spend the cash to sign them afterward. Now they have bad contracts they have to unload and instead of getting more highpriced vets to sit on the bench in return they take prospects, makes sense to me and has no barring on whither they are greedy or not.

[bobo]

darkstar - a few very specific questions for you:

Which exactly is the high-priced contract(s) they have to unload?

Exactly which players did they draft that would not have been drafted by less wealthy teams?

How many teams, in your estimation, will have a higher percentage of home-grown players on their 2007 25-man roster?

[ramaboy28]

Cashman is learning the error of his ways. He realizes that he needs to go back to drafting players and building up the farm system so they can make a real contribution to the team's future. This is a great start by trading away high priced vets for some solid prospects.

[Duffy3]

Randy has had seventeen wins his last two years with the yankees so hes been pretty solid even with the 5.00 ERA trading him would be stupid when we dont know what pavano or igawa will do, but at least we havent traded Melky away yet.

[Junior]

A bit off the subject....Does anyone know whatever happened with the possible three way deal between the Pirates, Braves and Yanks? (Laroche, Melky and Gonzo)

[darkstar1661]

"darkstar - a few very specific questions for you:"

Which exactly is the high-priced contract(s) they have to unload?
~~~ Sheff and RJ, they want out of NY

Exactly which players did they draft that would not have been drafted by less wealthy teams?
~~~ guys like Jeter don't go to the first team, they go to the one that can afford them. Don't believe, well where was Weaver drafted last year? No 1?

How many teams, in your estimation, will have a higher percentage of home-grown players on their 2007 25-man roster?

Uh, not near pc to easily check but I would say TB and Tor probably both do in the same division alone. If we add teams which brought a player in within is first year or ML experence there are probably many (I do this because teams like Oak and Cle have built rosters off players they traded for before the had experence/success) Also, this may be close or the Yanks may have more but answer me this:

How many teams are able to keep their talent without NYs money supply?

Guys like Jeter, Mariano, Pods, Williams etc would have left their drafting teams long ago had they not been drafted by a team able to give everyone $15mil+ contracts. How many such guys have left teams like KC, Pitt, Oak, Fla, Mil, etc in these type situations? Lots... Fact is NY only has much of their 'homegrown' talent because they could pay to keep it around and they are usually the first team to go buying up other teams FAs when that team can't afford them.

I know Yankee fans (as well as a couple other teams) like to act like they don't have an unfair advantage in so many aspects of the game but they do. 'Homegrown talent' doesn't even really apply if its so easy to keep them, unlike the situation for most of the other teams which have to sacrifice to keep their players or deal them before they lose out completly. NYs money is the only reason they are able to draft and secure prospects, sign the big names and ultimatly win consistantly, otherwise they would be no different than the Royals.

Fact is NY doesn't have to make tough decisions or worry about risks, they can waist money on Brien Taylor or Irabu and not have to rebuild because of it. Other teams don't have that luxury. A good GM you do not have to be to run things in NY, the money does that for you...

And that's why my statements.

[darkstar1661]

Duffy, 17 wins on one of the best offensive teams in baseball isn't too tough. How many would that 5+ERA yield in Sea?

[Not Joe Morgan]

Ramaboy, this isn't a "start" to focus on the minors by the Yankees; its been going on for several years now. Jim Callis of Baseball America just called them the 6th best system in an ESPN chat this week.

[Not Joe Morgan]

And Johnson's E(W)-E(L) suggests he should have gone 11-14 (although he did have strong peripherals aside from his HR/9 so his numbers look deceptively bad).

[DownFromNJ]

Suggesting that the current Yankee team is built through luring draftees with money is ridiculous. The Yankees didn't start paying above slot until 2005.

Derek Jeter - Got a standard 1st round signing bonus.

Mariano Rivera - Got a four figure signing bonus.

Robinson Cano - Got a five figure signing bonus

Melky Cabrera - Got a five figure signing bonus.

Jorge Posada - Other teams have 628 chances to draft him, got a miniscule signing bonus.

Andy Pettitte - Undrafted free agent.

Only Wang was a big free agent signing, and every team in the majors offered him a big bonus.

Deride the Yankees for their free agent pick ups, but don't make stuff up about their drafting.

[Moneyballa]

Why don't the yankees sub vizcaino for Brandom Medders, take the weaker of the Owings/Nippert tandem, and call it a trade right there. Instead of making the third player a sticking point, the team could upgrade the pen and add a third high ceiling arm to the system (with Sanchez/Hughes). Also, when coupled with the melky/Laroche/Gonzalez three way trade on bucco blog acompanied by a Bernie redux, the Yankees would have a deep enough pen (Mo/Proctor/Farnsworth/Bruney/Gonzalez/Medders/Myers/Britton/potentially Igawa or Sanchez) to make a trade for a middling 1B. I think Farnsworth would be the most likely to go in such a scenario. What do you guys think?

[ramaboy28]

I can't see the Yankees trading for any 1st baseman now with Mient still on tne market. All the yankees are looking for from 1st base is above average defense. That spot doesn't need to give anything else besides that with their stacked offense. Yankees keep the bullpen the way it is with or without Medders in it and sign Mient to a 1 year contract.

[Not Joe Morgan]

You have to wonder what the Yanks expect out of Proctor this year; Torre beat the shit out of him in '06 and I wouldn't be surprised to see him injured/ineffective. I do like that we aren't seeing the big money Quantrill-esque signings this offseason, perhaps Bruney proved you don't need a big contract to help out. In past years, the Yanks would have already thrown $30+MM to pull Speier and Walker into the pen for the next 4 years.

[diamondbacker]

Enrique Gonzalez - He's a pretty good starter. A little worse than league average, but I wouln't lose sleep over him leaving.
Edgar Gonzalez - He stunk when he was first called up, but he was really young. He's shown alot of composure lately and I won't let him go.
Ross Ohlendorf - Haven't seen much about im, but he did well in AA. He's probably a 4 or 5 at best, and though the D-backs have an abundance of pitching prospects, I think we overrate some of them just because our farm system is the best in baseball. That said, I don't care if Ohlendorf leaves; I was more concerned over Mike Bacsik joining the Nats. If we have too many 4 or 5 starters they'll block each other.
Dustin Nippert - Every time he spot starts for the Snakes, he stinks. I've heard better reports on him, but I think he's a AAAA pitcher (rocks in AAA but can't pitch in MLB) with a 4 or 5 ceiling like Ohlendorf.
Micah Owings - I won't let him go! He showed amazing composure in the way he pitched Tuscon through the Bricktown Showdown, and he has a good ERA, lots of wins (an overrated (and dangerous - see Russ Ortiz) stat, but at least it shows he can win), and a great batting average. Not batting average against, but batting average - this guy can hit.

BTW - I don't call the Yanks greedy for unloading RJ for younger kids, I call it smart. What I meant was that their asking price was too high, and I'd rather see the Pads or another team get ripped off than see us trade Owings in a potential deal.

Brandon Medders - A good bullpen arm. Very reliable, young, and cheap. I don't think you give him up unless you have to.
Luis Vizcaino - Can be greatfor stretches and them melt. More expensive sooner.

Note to Yanks fans - don't believe all the reports you hear. Josh Byrnes is a genius of a GM - our total haul from RJ (including Vasquez and Green trades)-
Chris Young
Luis Vizcaino
Jorge Julio
Evan MacLane
MONEY

Not bad considering the Shawn Green move made by the previous regime. Byrnes would've had Cano and Wang, who were both offered.