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More Info On Gagne's Veto List

As you know, Eric Gagne's contract allows for him to be traded to 12 teams without his consent.  Earlier we learned that the Tigers, Indians, and Phillies are not among the 12 allowable teams.

Today, Ken Rosenthal verified the above info and added that the Yankees, Mets, and Angels are on the allowable list.  The remaining nine he can be traded to without consent are thought to be inconsequential.  And the Angels aren't going to worry about Gagne. 

The Mets have been looking for bullpen help for at least a few weeks now.  Gagne has been on the radar, among others.  Rosenthal believes Omar Minaya's focus is instead on players like Mark Buehrle, Jeff Conine, and Mark Sweeney.  It's interesting to note that (by my count) Minaya has yet to make a trade this year.  By this time in previous years he'd made five or six.  (Coming soon: Minaya trade profile).

The Yankees have been scouting the Rangers for a while.  They could be looking at Gagne, or Akinori OtsukaMark Teixeira hasn't been active.  I suppose Joaquin Benoit or Brad Wilkerson could be on the radar as well.

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Seriously? Mark Sweeney? If there's any market at all for that guy, the Giants need to get on that now.

I don't know about you, but I'm strongly against players being able to veto a trade to a certain number of teams. It should be all or nothing.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Omar grab Gagne and Wilkerson from Texas.

As far as what they would give up? I have no idea. I wouldn't deal Milledge, Pelfrey, or Humber.

"I don't know about you, but I'm strongly against players being able to veto a trade to a certain number of teams. It should be all or nothing."

I don't understand what is wrong with this... Gagne accepted the contract, waiving his rights to reject a trade to those 12 teams. Essentially what he did was say "Yes, I will accept a trade to these 12..." to make it easier down the road for a trade to happen, so that his team wouldn't have to go through him first in a trade situation.

I think its more the "I will accept a partial no trade clause and when it comes down to you trading me I want to pick only a couple teams I will go to"...

Well, as we see from his list he chose teams where he either gets the most media exposure or teams which won't trade for him because they have no use for him. In essence his "list" was only 3 teams long if Ana, NYY and NYM are the only logical matches.

What it does... Screws Tex! Now they will get very little in return because there is no bidding war. The teams most likely to pay the most are not on the list. They might not be able to deal him now... It also screws himself though, when he's a FA again those teams left off the list probably won't have as much interest as he obviously doesn't really want to be there.

Best thing that could happen, Tex picks the worst team on the list (say KC) and offers him up for nothing! He gets stuck in a horrible situation with no media exposure and still upset his best chances for a new contract in the future.

He's comming off 16in in 2 years yet pulls this kind of ego trip? Nah, if I was Tex I would punish him for it since he really hurt them more than anyone else... They gave him a shot and he kinda slapped them in the face.

Is KC looking for a middle reliever? Hehehe...

Darkstar, you are aware that Texas was part of the contract signing, right? They aren't "screwed" like you're making it sound. Its not like Gagne just walked into Texas's camp, handed Daniels the contract and started throwing in the bullpen leaving the Rangers with no recourse but to either let him pitch or move him to one of the 12 selected teams. It was two sided negotiations.

Yeah, I fully understand that... but... Well, its not too different then me telling you "I found a $100 bill on the ground, let's go to dinner" then expecting you to pick up the tab.

All the teams he was in contact with during the offseason are excluded from the list? He was only a few dollars away from signing with Cle yet they aren't on the list? Huh? All the playoff teams that need a closer aren't options? But the couple like the Yanks and Angels that don't are options? What?

Nah, that's deceiving... The teams he was about to sign with should be givens on the list ~ that's what Tex would have expected... Any of us would have...

So, where yes technically the Rangers shouldnt have agreed to it, the "Gagne list" he presents them goes completly against common sense and in turn screws Tex...

That's the point and why I would ship him to Pitt or KC...

What is deceptive about submitting a list of 12 teams before signing a contract? Guys do this all the time to avoid playing in cities they wouldn't choose to sign in; its a benefit of free agency. I honestly can't figure out what you're getting at here.

Darkstar, it's not deceptive, it is common sense. Gagne accepted a contract saying he is pitching for the texas rangers for the duration of that contract.

If texas isn't willing to honor their side (by trading him), he is covering himself by restricting where he can go.

Wouldn't you be furious if you signed a deal to be a claims analyst in Texas and 2 months into the deal, they forced you into moving to Kansas City? Same concept.

in fact, minaya traded cash to the Indians for AAA infielder Jake Gautreau.

blockbuster, i know.

THIS is why the Yankees have been scouting the Rangers and vice versa. I've had comments on my blog and read elsewhere that people are thinking the scouting is because of the Yanks' interest in Teixeira, but I've said for some a while that the Yanks won't be able to match other teams' offers for Tex. Gagne is about to be a Yankee.

http://rangersorrobbers.wordpress.com/2007/05/29/texas-to-trade-texiera/

Well, I was under the impression that the list was given only recently and not at the time of the contract. The first time I had heard about it was about 2 weeks ago where the report said something like 'Gagne completed and presented his list of teams to the Rangers'.

But weather just done or not, this statement sums up what I was saying rather perfectly:
"Guys do this all the time to avoid playing in cities they wouldn't choose to sign in; its a benefit of free agency."
Exactly! What I was saying in my post is that one would expect the list to be those teams which he wouldn't think of signing with. Well, I know that he almost did sign with Cle and heard that both Det and Philly were possibilities at the time. I'm saying that if I was Tex I would have expected the teams that he almost signed with to be on the list, and at least teams with a need for a closer...

If Gagne really has excluded Cle, Det, Philly and speculated teams like Atl and Stl then I just don't get it at all. That makes no sence as all the teams he could benefit from being on wouldn't be an option...

Like I said, if I was Tex then I would expect to have him choose teams which would actually want him, instead it looks like he chose only teams which probably wouldn't. If they saw the list per-contract then its a little different, but what I have heard makes it seem like that wasn't the case.

I have a feeling Omar is up to something.

I must be an idiot because the Wilkerson-Gange for Milledge-Humber or Plefrey sounds decent.

I would much rather keep our young guys though.

who cares if he doesn't want to go where he almost signed. He has the right to change his mind if he wants. Whether you think its deceiving or even if Texas has a problem with it, its thier own fault for

1) negotiating the contract this way

2)not asking for the list before it was signed....IF it was just recently made

The fact is that they didn't cover themselves. Thats like saying the Cubs should be pissed off that Ramirez opted out of the contract when they gave him the right to do just that. Gagne is trying to maximize his exposure and he has every right to do so...even if he says only trade me to one team. If the contract allows for it, its the Rangers freakin fault. Bottom line.

Exactly Adun, the Rangers gave him exactly what he wanted and he in turn puts them in the worst possible possition... Their fault for agreeing to it or not, they are still screwed because they now get no return for what is a hot commodity on the market.

You wouldn't be upset if you expected A and got D from someone after you gave him a chance at a much higher pay rate then others would?

exactly what the situation was when ARam opted out...no I wasn't upset with him...even if he left. It was his right and the Cubs fault for putting the possibility in the contract. Texas isn't in the worst position, worse case scenario....they keep him for EXACTLY what they signed him for. How is that bad again?

Uh, because they were under the impression they would be able to trade him to 12 teams (which logic says 12 teams he would have signed with) if they fell out of the race...

Listen, I could really care less about this jerk... All I was saying is if I was Tex I would send him where he has asked to be sent, somewhere like TB apparently...

I can't believe you guys are arguing about this. There's absolutely nobody to blame but Texas. They signed the contract, they offered him a limited no-trade clause. Whether or not the teams were decided in the off-season or yesterday is irrevlevant because this was part of the contract as well.

If Texas has a problem with it, they should have negotiated the contract differently. If they assumed that the teams he almost signed with would be on the list...well, you know what they say about assuming...


As for trading to TB or KC or whatever - I don't even think Daniels is stupid or immature enough to take a subpar return out of spite. And don't forget that Gagne can still go to any team if he allows it. The guy is a big competitor - it's certainly possible that the Rangers say "hey, we have an offer we like from Cleveland - they're a great team, you have a chance to win, blah blah" then he'll accept.

> they were under the impression they would be able to trade him to 12 teams (which logic says 12 teams he would have signed with)

No, logic says the 12 teams would be those that are most advantageous to Gagne, and provide Gagne with the most negotiating leverage.

Yeah...I'm done arguing about this one. All I'll say is that in NO way is Gagne at any fault because he is using the options that texas GAVE HIM to his advantage. For any GM to expect any different is sheer stupidity

I was saying why would Mr. I’ve pitched 16 innings the last 2 years be so arrogant as to fill out a trade list of only teams which wouldn’t want him because of their situation and a couple exposure teams which have no need for a closer in the first place… is playing in TB, Pitt, KC, Balt, Was, etc in his best interest to get a new deal? Are these teams stupid enough to give anything up for him since they have no shot at the playoffs? In essence he has a full no trade clause with the exception of the two NY teams ~ and saying “I’ll go to 12 teams” when there is really only 2 that he can go to is deceiving…

Ok, Tex screwed up for agreeing to such a stupid contract ~ but logic says a contract with 12 tradable teams is a contract you should be able to trade to a handful of teams ~ not 2 teams!

But ok… who cares already… You think Tex is all to blame and that Gagne isn’t a jerk for doing this to a team willing to give him everything he wanted money and contract wise ~ I think that kind of kindness should return at least something semi respectable in options on the list and since they don’t then I just dump him to get rid of his contract despite the return. Oh no, I wouldn’t be getting the marginal B-rate, Low-A ball prospect the Yankees will probably give up since they have no competition for him...

"I was saying why would Mr. I’ve pitched 16 innings the last 2 years be so arrogant as to fill out a trade list of only teams which wouldn’t want him because of their situation"

Because they gave him the right to

The same reason players who are on the DL for the year are collecting their regular paychecks.

ok, do you want to go around in that circle again?

Well, if they gave him the right to but didn’t know that the list of teams would be an absolute joke and expected those 12 teams to be those which would benefit his situation like everyone in the world would (ie teams which would actually want him) then they were taken advantage of.

Like I said; if I found a hundred dollar bill and asked you out to lunch, telling you to pay afterward, it would technically be your fault for not asking who was going to pay first but it doesn’t mean I wasn’t in the wrong for leading you to believe differently…

who in the world says that Gagne lead them to believe anything at all? The fact is that you are saying they assumed which teams it would be.....

Again, you are saying they assumed which teams it would be and now you think Gagne is a jerk because they didn't assume the right teams correctly? Show me where Gagne lead them to believe one way or another....

The ARam analogy is so much better than you 100 dollar bill one, because no one led anyone to believe anything. And no, you shouldn't use what you consider "logic" to try and say which teams he would suggest...or they should have just figured that out up front.

ok, yes Tex should have assumed that his "I want to be traded to these teams" list would include teams which have no interest in a closer, spending money or any chance of making the playoffs ~ oh and it definitely wouldn’t have the teams he almost signed with over the offseason... :\

Truth is in negotiating he probably said something to the effect of “I want to pick the teams I can be traded to because I want to look out for my best interest” ~ and yep, obviously those would be teams like Pitt and Balt…

Fine, you’re right ~ Tex should have known that his list would have been filled with teams like TB and KC because afterall, all of us would expect those to be the teams in his best interest…

Just because you or Texas didn't consider the fact that he could construct the list this way doesn't mean that they are not in his best interest.

Obviously, he feels that this list of teams IS in his best interest, or else he wouldn't have picked them.

The problem with your $100 bill analogy is there's an implication that you'd be paying. There is no implication that Gagne would choose teams that would want him, or that were winning - just, exactly as you said, a list that would be in his best interests.

A better analogy would be this:

Your friend finds a $100 bill and asks you to go out to dinner. You're expecting a nice restaurant and lobster because you both love lobster, but he picks a dive bar, gets burgers and a few pitchers of beer, and casually mentions to the hot waitress that he knew worked there about how he found the money so he thought he'd take his best friend out. She ends up going out with him. You lose, but it's in his best interests - just not what you thought they were.

Ok, kind of cheesy, but I think it applies.

hahaha, ok Bobo ~ loved the story!

So anyway, I think he's a jerk for the way this has transpired. Texas being at fault for not getting 100% of the details or not, the fact remains that this couldn’t be what they (or any team) would have expected...

And thats the thing, I don’t get it helping him long-term either... If he alienates teams from trading for him (like Cle, Phil and Det have been) when they really need him then why would he expect them to be excited about getting him when he's a FA? You don’t usually do much to accommodate a player who shuns you when you need him, and that’s pretty much what he has done… If you try to trade for someone with a no trade clause and he rejects it you are probably not going to go to strongly after him a few months later when he’s a FA… Since his best options this last season are from the teams he has said he doesn’t want to be traded to isn’t he really setting himself up for a weak payday in the future? If only one team is at the door offering a contract I cant imagine that contract is going to be too high…

Oh well, who cares about the bum… Had he been caught with the steroids a few years back like so many believe then we wouldn’t even be having this conversation…

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