Braves Want Young Impact Pitcher For Salty

Back on June 24th, Dejan Kovacevic of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette mentioned that the Pirates inquired as to the availability of catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia.  At that point the required bounty was thought to be a frontline starting pitcher like Mark Buehrle.

Today, Kovacevic clarifies: the Braves want an impact-caliber young pitcher.  That makes sense.  The Pirates have a couple of those: Tom Gorzelanny and Ian Snell.  They'd have to give one up to get Salty.  Such a trade would be excellent for Atlanta but wouldn't really seem to move the Pirates forward.

While shaky in terms of confirmation, we do have one report that indicates the Pirates could trade Snell this month.  Snell is 25, healthy, and a long ways from free agency.  He's been the eighth best pitcher in the National League this year according to VORP.  Better than Roy Oswalt, Brandon Webb, Carlos Zambrano, or Cole Hamels.  It's been quite a breakout season for Snell, and he's improved his efficiency greatly.  He averaged 5.81 innings per start in '06 and increased that all the way to 6.76 per start this year.

Comments

[Bosox4416]

I don't know how Salty would really help out the Pirates, they already have Ronny Paulino, and losing a young pitcher like Snell is not what they need, although Salty would be a huge upgrade to their offense.

[Aduncaroo]

seems like that deal favors the braves...that is interesting though...i didn't know sell was pitching That well

[ArodSucksAtLife]

Paulino is half the player, and 4 years older. He could be relegated to backup duties. The Pirates are such a terrible team. I'd make the trade on either side. I've also heard some things about teams wanting to pick up Ryan Doumit. It would make sense for the Pirates to part with him as he is leading the team in OPS right now, so he'll probably end up on the Cubs for some combination of scrubs or waiverwired and picked up by the Red Sox.

[Chipper]

I don't think the Braves will trade Salty. I think that a Yunel and Prado/Orr and prospect are more than enough for the Pirates to get Snell.

[cianfroccofan]

probably wishful thinking but could clay hensley, justin germano, or cla meredith possibly be that young impact pitcher.

[nrmax88]

Braves fans are the only people who even think the names Martin Prado and Pete Orr are worth mentioning. Those guys are scrubs, nobody wants them. Yunel looks good but 1 nice month isnt going to get u a 25 year old power pitcher making crumbs that is under your control for like 4 years.

[Chipper]

Nah. We want excellent young pitchers. Germano is good, but not want we want for Salty. We want Gorzellany/Snell type guys.

[Chipper]

Well nrmax, he was even better in the minors.

[David]

This is from an AJC column on Friday: "Every potential trade partner asks about Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Yunel Escobar, of whom Schuerholz said: “Those two guys are known to be two of the finest young players in the game.” Of Salty in particular: “I don’t have any intention of trading him.”

The Salty discussions are sexy and probably bring great page views, but the GM says isn't going anywhere.

As for Yunel Escobar, Edgar Renteria says the only rookie he's seen who was this good was Albert Pujols. I'm going to trust his opinion over a random blogger's.

[MarkLemke]

General managers always say the player often mentioned in trade talks isn't available.

If we are going to take a Pirates pitcher, I prefer Gorzy over Snell.

We need a pitcher BAD and I wouldn't cry over parting with Salty.

[Ripwa]

Lol,you are quoting the Braves GM and a player to how good players in the Braves organization is? Ask Theo Epstein, Ellsbury is the next Damon. Ask anyone that has watched him play, you'll get a Pods that can walk.

I may be a random blogger, but i can see that Yunel had a BABIP of .384 this year at AAA. Good luck keeping at up. The guy walks less that 8% of the time. That stinks. Not to mention the guy is 24. We aren't talking about a spring chicken. In his "breakout" season, he still was only posting and OPS of .835. Yea, thats really Pujols like.

You Braves fans are out of your mind. Salty for Snell, believable. I think the Braves make out like robbers, but it still is a believable deal. Yunel and Orr? Are you kidding? Seriously, i'm just curious. He is 28 years old. Why would anyone want a AAAA player. I hate to whip out BABIP again, but come on he had a .429 this year. That is completely unsustainable. A guy that has a LD% of 10 and walks about 4% of the time has NO value.

Please, can you all stop talking about your prospects like this. All you have is Salty and he isn't even a top 10 prospect, maybe top 15. You just sound stupid. I hate to be so blunt and cruel, but it's sooooooo annoying. It is starting to take away from the intelligent people that comment.

[David]

"You Braves fans are out of your mind."

Physician, heal thyself.

"I may be a random blogger but here are X amount of reasons why I know more about a baseball player I have barely seen than multi-time All-Star Edgar Renteria is."

If I could take you seriously, I might consider you crazed. Fortunately, I can't. Anyone who has seen Yunel Escobar play (and I have since high A ball) knows his bat is phenomenal. His percentage of balls in play relative to swings is Ichiro-esque.

To a larger point, as a Braves fan, I see our plan as simple. We'll just keep fleecing the Pirates into giving up their best players without us giving up ours. Really enjoyed watching Lillibridge last month. I don't like him quite as much as Brandon Jones, but what a throw in he was given we had already stolen Gonzalez.

PS: That was my first post on this board. I hadn't expected the replies to come from 13-year-olds. Congrats on finally being old enough to get that Facebook account!

[J.L.]

I agree. Which is going help the Braves to reach the playoff more? Salty at 1st base or a young frontline starting pitcher? I would have to say the latter. You have to give to get. Escobar et. al are not going to get it done.

[zubes007]

Just to make it clear to you Braves fans:

1. There is NO CHANCE IN HELL that the Pirates (as stupid as they are) are stupid enough to trade Snell or Gorzelanny for Saltalamacchia...trades of stud pitchers before the are even arb-eligible for prospects NEVER HAPPEN. Getting one of these two would require the Braves to give up the entire farm basically (3 of their top prospects I would think), not just Saltalamacchia (who admittedly has a bright future).

2. Saltalamacchia >>>>>>>> Escobar...Escobar is a nice young player, he could be a solid ML shortstop or be a nice utility player a la Chone Figgins...but he isn't that special...he is the kind of prospect that the Braves should be willing to trade for a rental/older pitcher.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

"Ask Theo Epstein, Ellsbury is the next Damon. Ask anyone that has watched him play, you'll get a Pods that can walk."

Those "anyone"'s are complete morons.

[Blue]

Salty for Snell/Gorzellany would basically be a lateral move for the Braves. When you're as deficient at 1B as the Braves are, and when there aren't any good 1Bs available on the free agent market in the offseason, you hold him and play him at first.

I think Escobar will be a nice player, but not even close to being enough to acquire one of the two Pirate pitchers.

[Ripwa]

Yep, i'm 13 years old and smarter than you will ever be. I have enough brains to know that looks can be misleading. I actually look at this crazy thing called "stats". I understand that getting on base is probably the most important thing in baseball. I see that Yunel only walks around 8%. You do have a point that his BABIP should be higher since he does hit a good amount of LDs, but he also grounds the ball a lot. So as similar he is to Ichiro, a BABIP of .384 is not realistic at all. I am also smart enough to know that if you aren't going to get on base, you better to able to slug the ball. Yunel has never had an SLG% about .470 in anything above Rookie ball. He has 9 HRs to his name above Rookie ball. So we have a man that doesn't walk, does hit for power, and his inflated stats basically because he was lucky. A 24 year old singles hitter is not worth a #2 pitcher that hasn't reach arbitration yet. It's not my opinion, that is a fact. What part of that arguement do you want to refute? The stats? His age? His unattractiveness?

I don't know more about baseball than Renteria. I will never and could never. But i am a hell of a lot less bias than him. What do you want him to say exactly? Suppose he said he sucked? That would go over well. Maybe he does think he is a great baseball player. But i'm going to guess Renteria has never heard of VORP, WARP, or FRAA. Looks aren't everything.

I apoligize for being harsh. I get upset with dumb people that think they are holier than tho. Aww lets cry for you. I called you dumb. I have such pitty on you. Maybe i should go back to facebook and hang out at the mall. I am making way to much sense in the arguement aways. I don't want you to quote Chipper Jones. Than you will really shove it to me.

[boomshwa12]

"As for Yunel Escobar, Edgar Renteria says the only rookie he's seen who was this good was Albert Pujols."

isn't salty a rookie? if escobar's more talented then the braves should be more than happy to include him in a deal for a pitcher.

by the way, mocking everybody who doesn't agree with you on your second post isn't a good way for people to respect what you have to say. it's like your first day in the majors and you just walk in and act like a prema dona (sp). chances are you aren't smarter than a lot of the people on this site...so don't act like it

[boomshwa12]

more than happy to include salty in a deal i meant to say

[Ripwa]

Ellsbury has clear flaws in his swing. He has great speed, great D, and good plate discipline. His LD% is too low, his GB% is too high. Unless he fixes his swing, he is going to just be a singles hitter. With the attributes i discribes above, it makes him have good value, but he is no were near the player Damon is. A better version of Taverez, Duffy, or Pods (the first 2 are on his comps list).

[Ripwa]

I am not smarter than most people here, just most of the Braves fans.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

.275/.338/.386 8 HR, as a 23 year old for Damon.

.318/.372/.443 7 hr,
-75% Pecota projection projection for a full season as a 23 year old. Damon's line would be Ellsbury 25%.

Damon has averaged 14 hr's a year for his career, if you think Ellsbury can't accomplish that as he gets bigger your crazy.

He is exactly the type of player Damon was when he broke into the league, with better D.

I am not a homer, I can acknowledge flaws in my teams prospects. Calling Ellsbury better version of tavarez and Duffy is just silly. Unless you mean he is better than those two just like the majority of baseball players are.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

Not to mention the fact that they are both dead sexy.

[Ripwa]

I don't think Ellsbury can hit 14 homeruns a season, but thats not even the main point. The guy can't hit doubles anywhere near Damon can. It is extemely hard for a guy to get doubles when he is getting less that 13% LDs. PECOTA doesn't mention Damon and has Duffy as his #1 comp, so i wouldn't say its crazy. You also fail to mention that Damon was in the pros by 21 and was able to hit 16 homeruns in a season at AA.

[Ripwa]

I'm really not even knocking him, but Damon is an elite player. I haven't seen anything from Ellsbury that makes me think he can be THAT good of a player. Not to sound like a fake expert, i'm not, but i got a chance to see him almost 10 times while he was at Portland. I just don't like how he looks in terms of being a great pro, and the stats i've seen show that as well. Good player, not great.

[ZachAttack]

"I am not smarter than most people here, just most of the Braves fans."

Screw you. I hate when immature people like you make generalizations about fans of a particular team. Now I can see why he called you 13, you aren't mature enough to argue like an adult.

[anthoneytheghost]

coco crisp and Michael bowden for satly. play him at first base and backup catcher next year, then use him to replace tek going forward. also, he helps offset the cost of a-rod.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

Damon was drafted out of highschool, Ellsbury was drafted out of college. Hence the getting to the pros earlier.

Hey I don't know anything about Wichita's stadium in the texas league, maybe its likes the Red Sox Lancaster affiliate. Ellsbury goes there he could hit 15 bombs. I'm pretty sure with the way Fenway is designed, and his speed Ellsbury will his his fair share of doubles.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

I've always thought Kenny Lofton was a better comparison, but thought Damon was fair aswell.

"coco crisp and Michael bowden for satly."

The Red Sox aren't trading for Salty, it just doesn't make any sense for them right now.

He'd be picked up just to spend the next year and a half at triple A. If Mirabelli goes so does Wakefield, he has said it flat out, "when dougie leaves, I retire". So your basically trading Coco crisp, Bowden, Wakefield, Mirabelli, and resigning Schilling at 13 million bucks for Salty. It's not gonna happen.

[Andrew]

Michael Bowden does not even come close to being an 'impact' pitcher. Mostly because he's probably years away from actually contributing at a major league level.

The Braves don't want pitching prospects, they want someone who will help them in the long term AND this year. Ian Snell is probably the exact kind of pitcher they're talking about. But I can't see the Pirates giving him up.

[Ripwa]

Haha, i missed coming to this site. I need to work on Sundays more often. I'm sorry i offended all Braves fan, but go threw every major pitching that has been rumored to be traded and you hear from some dumb Braves fan, "Salty for X, get it done," or "What about Yunel or Orr? you think they could get it done?" I'm sick of writing, Not for Buehrle, Zambrano, Harden, hell i remember someone even asking about Santana. For some reason all Braves fans believe their prospects are better than anyones else but sadly they have an average to bad farm system with really only 1 good prospect. Get over yourself. So i think your dumb. I also think 1/2 the GMs in baseball are out of their minds. Take it as a complement.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

I'm assuming he meant his trade to be made in the offseason.

[Andrew]

"For some reason all Braves fans believe their prospects are better than anyones else"

I think this probably goes for most fans.

To be fair to Braves fans, the Atlanta GM is one of the best when it comes to getting value out of trades, and taking advantage of moronic GMs like that of Seattle. Would you have considered Horacio Ramirez for Rafael Soriano realistic this past offseason?

[Ripwa]

The Braves front office is one of the best in baseball, if not the best. That is why i believe Salty for Snell is possible. It's when Yunel and Orr start getting their names out there i get upset.

[boomshwa12]

the braves clearly abused seattle in the soriano/ramirez deal, but i wouldn't be so quick as to call bavasi a moron. especially considering that the mariners would have been the best team in the nl before today's games started.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

Bavasi is a moron.

[Ripwa]

If any GM is a moron it is Bavasi.

[anthoneytheghost]

"If any GM is a moron it is Bavasi."

jim bowden? then i guess by default wayne krivsky because he got played by bowden last year.

[bravesbeast]

Well, i am not trying to boast by any means, but it seems as if I have been right all along. The Braves, as has become my most recognizable saying, want a bounty that will help them now and in the future more than salty would, and the only bounty that would do that is a young starting pitching who could become a frontline starter. Ian is about as close to that bounty as you can get. Now, I completely agree with blue, as trading salty for snell helps us fill one need while creating another one in the process. However, the braves have been in contention this whole time with the worst 1b production in the major leagues, and getting a young breakout starter will only make us better. However, I seriously do not think that the pirates are looking to trade snell, just does not make too much sense, as they should hold on to him and gorze until mclutcheon and walker come up, and then should try and contend. But this trade, Snell for Salty, is by far the best bounty i have heard for salty, but, I still would prefer using the middle infield depth on our farm to acquire a young pitcher. And no, escobar and orr would be laughed at. I am talking a pitcher like noah lowry, on a team like the giants who could use any type of decent young prospect they could get. But if that does not work, and salty is traded for snell, I will be about as happy as i could ever be at the thought of trading salty. The reason being is that a young pitcher with front of the rotation talent is a much harder find than a productive first baseman, and we already have a vvery good offensive producing young catcher in mccann. ahhhhhhh, it feels good to be proven right lol.

[anthoneytheghost]

yeah, as a pirates secret admirer i have to agree with the consensus that snell is too much to give up for salty especially since they already have a good catching tandem of paulino and doumit, and will need the young guns if they plan to make a run in the next few years. third base, ss and right field are where the pirates should be looking to upgrade for the future.

[MarkLemke]

Ripwa,

You're on the losing end here. Salty and Escobar are two of the top five performing rookies this season.

Either one would be a fair trade for Snell or Gorzy

[ArodSucksAtLife]

No.

[Ripwa]

Just because you say something doesn't make it true....

[touchmymonkey]

Rich Hill for Salty. Cubs young pitchers always get hurt so lets ditch him for salty. We could throw in theriot and pagan if they throw in escobar. Tough call. cubs fans are going to bitch we gave up a stud young P Braves fans will bitch that he is too unproven to be called a stud. Feasible? too one sided? for which side?

[anthoneytheghost]

matt murton would be beautiful in a braves uniform.

[Chipper]

I wouldn't give up Salty for hill. I would do a Yunel Escobar for Hill.

[anthoneytheghost]

if i were the cubs i wouldnt give up hill for either.

[Andrew]

I would do an Andy Phillips for Rich Hill, too.

The Braves would be lucky to get Rich Hill for Saltalamacchia.

[Chipper]

That's too much for us to give up for Salty's potential. He can be a 30 hr guy, gold glove first baseman. I would do the trade for Gorz or Snell though.

[nom3k]

The Yunel Escobar hype really needs to end. Ruben Gotay's younger and is putting up much better numbers(like a .200+ advantage in OPS).

[Chipper]

How long has he been up? 2 weeks? Yunel has been up longer is way better. Mets fans haven't seen him play. He has better defense than Gotay and has a better arm and can play multiple positions on the infield.

[nom3k]

"Salty and Escobar are two of the top five performing rookies this season."

On what planet?

Off the top of my head Braun, Loney, Pence, Pedroia, Hamilton, Tulowitzki, Fontenot, Butler, Young, and Buck have been better. And that's not even talking about rookie pitchers.

[Chipper]

You are way wrong. Yunel is better than Fontenot. I'm glad Edgar slapped him June 10. Right about Pence.

Top 5 rookies:
1. Pence
2. Salty
3. Young
4. Yunel
5. Loney

[nom3k]

"How long has he been up? 2 weeks?"

Gotay's been up since April.

Gotay's offensive numbers blow Escobar's out of the water at the moment.

Escobar plays one more position defensively than Gotay(and only because Chipper was hurt), and he's been a worse defender than Gotay. We're talking about a .949 F% vs. a .980 for Gotay's career.

[nom3k]

"Top 5 rookies:
1. Pence
2. Salty
3. Young
4. Yunel
5. Loney"

Braves fans are almost as irrational as Yankee fans.

Where's Braun? Where's Hamilton? Or Butler, Pedroia, Tulowitzki, ect.

[Teetz]

Yunel for Rich Hill....wow. I don't even come close to pulling a trigger Salty for Rich Hill. And yeah, whoever made the to 5 rookies list needs to think about putting Ryan Braun number 1 and realize Yunel Escobar doesn't crack the top 5.

[nom3k]

It's homer-ism at it's finest. Saltalamacchia and Escobar had OPSs of .817 and .735 respectively coming into today, but somehow they've been better than a guy like James Loney who's got a 1.046 OPS.

And that's ignoring that Loney's a terrific defensive player and Salty's been nothing short of a butcher when he's been at 1st.

[Ripwa]

See this is what i'm talking about. Yunel is not the 4th best rookie. Like what scale are you using. I'll use VORP. Just among position players Salty ranks 13th and Yunel ranks 24th. That doesn't even include pitchers. How on earth can you justify a claim like Yunel has been the 4th best rookie. If you included pitcher Yunel would literally place 78th. But you're right he is probably 4th.

[nom3k]

Hell, Milledge in 4 games(.846 OPS, 1 HR, 6 RBIs) has been about almost as productive as Escobar's been in over 100 at bats.

[nom3k]

Hell, Milledge in 4 games(.846 OPS, 1 HR, 6 RBIs) has been about almost as productive as Escobar's been in over 100 at bats(.735 OPS, 1 HR, 10 RBIs)

[nom3k]

I even forgot about Matt Kemp(he still qualify as a rook?)

[hobokenwood]

As a BRAVES FAN, I see this all the time--what complete moron would expect Pete Orr to be included in a trade for Ian Snell? Let's package Prado and Orr with Escobar and just go out and get a pitcher. Our GM is John Schuerholz, and he can do whatever he wants. I think the people who actually look at STATS with some objectivity are more on track than the ones who believe Edgar Renteria's comparison of Yunel Escobar to Albert Pujols (??). Completely, utterly stupid.

Yunel as a top 5 rookie. Right. Braves fans can ignore Braun, Guthrie or even Dice-K. These posts don't do much to put more intelligent Braves fans in a favorable light.

[J.L.]

Braun definitely has to be front runner for NL ROY with Pence right behind. Anyone else is just silly.
Btw, Kemp does not qualify because he had three straight weeks of playing time last year when Lofton was out. But he's still very much a prospect, and looking very good.

And isn't Fontenot like 27? His performance isn't as impressive when you factor in age.

[trevordchi]

How about the much improved Wandy Rodriguez/Jason Jennings and one of the Astro relievers for Salty and another prospect. Wandy is much improved and would make a quality #4, or #5 on a contender, Jennings 3,4

The Astros NEED to make another Bagwell/Anderson trade badly. They are another stick or two and another starter or two away from being legitimate contenders and Drayton McLane is NOT going to spend the necessary loot to pick up the quality they need via free agency. If the Astros are to become true World Series contenders, not just first round playoff contenders they must get another big bat and starting pitcher cheaply via the farm and the only way that is going to happen any time soon is for Tim Papura to show his worth.

[ZachAttack]

Top 5 NL Rookies:

1. Pence
2. Braun
3. Hamilton
4. Tulowitski
5. Loney

You guys can bash Escobar all you want, but obvsiously you haven't seen him play. This kid isn't a stat freak, much like Renteria. He doesn't do anything exceptional, but he does a lot of things good. Today, he went 2-5. What didn't show up in the box score was a groundball to the right side that moved the runner up or the hustle play to get to home on a passed ball (for the second straight day I might add.) His versatility is amazing. He can play 3B, 2B, or SS. I'll take that.

[nom3k]

"And isn't Fontenot like 27? His performance isn't as impressive when you factor in age."

I'd agree, and really neither is Escobar's, who's not even a kid. He'll be 25 before the year is out, and he posted a .730 OPS as a 23 year old in AA last year.

Escobar's a decent little player(as is Gotay) but he's a role player at his peak. Most Brave fans I've seen don't seem to realize this. I've even heard Escobar referred to as "one of the best young players in the game". It's borderline absurd.

[bravesbeast]

A few things:

The first thing is that yes, some of the braves fan in this particular thread are completely absurd in overvaluing yunel escobar. He never was expected to be a superstar shortstop, and he probably never will be. His stats are not that great, and he never put up eye popping numbers in the minors.

Despite that, Zach Attack brings up a very good point in that escobar is a guy who plays hard and also is a very smart ball player. If you see him playing, he almost always is at the top of the order instead of the bottom like salty. The reason being is that escobar does not strikeout that often, puts the ball in play where it needs to go, and knows how to get on base. The fact that he can play all the infield positions makes him very versitle, and i think increases his value.

The final thing is that while escobar in no way compares to the pences, loneys, brauns, gordons, delmons, hamiltons, or tulowitsks of the world, his value may be a little bit underrated because he is being to players who ARE NOT going to be traded obviously. If you take those players out of the equation, then yunel's value continues to rise as be may be one of the best young talens who is known to be available in a trade. Now, I am not at all saying he is worth a rich hill or an ian snell, both the cubs and pirates would lose those deal horribly. However, if the braves could make escobar the main part of a package to get lowry, then perhaps you could talk, as lowry seems to be a pitcher who is older and not as good as gorzelanny or snell.

These are just ideas, but in general, i do think that escobar could become a solid starting middle infielder, as his defense offensive production will only get better in time.

[J.L.]

I agree with that. Escobar can be a quality middle infielder, he is simple not someone you would build a package around for a young starter like some of the other names you mentioned, most of whom have been top rated prospects since they were drafted. But he would be a good *part* of a package. Correct me if I'm wrong but he's in the same position as Betemit was last year, has potential and can play multiple positions but is blocked.

[delmonmvp]

Rich Hill is too much for Salty.

[bravesbeast]

That is exactly right. And the funny thing is that Escobar should be at Triple-A or Double A right now because willy Aybar, the player we got in the Wilson betemit trade who is an exact clone of betemit but two years younger, Aybar should be our utility guy, but off course he is in rehab.

Furthermore, I really think that the fact that yunel escobar, even though it is a very small sample size, has experienced success at the major league level so far despite his minor league numbers is a reason his value may be inflated.

[bravesbeast]

If Salty could get Ian Snell in return, then he is enough for Rich Hill. However, the Pirates are not in contention like the Cubs are trying to be, so trading away a starting pitcher, especially one who has contributed like hill has, may not be in the best interest of the Cubs.

[ryan c]

ok, i am a realistic braves fan. no, yunel and pete orr could not get snell, but salty could. the pirates have a plethera of young pitchers, and the braves have an overload of young catchers. a young, cheap, power throwing pitcher is something to hold on to. also, a young, strong armed, power hitting catcher is something to hold on to. it's all about supply and demand here. personally, i hope that the braves trade someone besides salty (yunel, pena,reyes) to the giants for matt morris, and hope that hampton and gonzalez return to form next year. the comment about orr earlier is absolutely right. he might be able to get us albert pujols' jockstrap, but nothing else. to think otherwise, is absurd. i do think salty being moved to 1st base cheapens his long term value, therefore he either needs to be the braves regular there next year, or be traded soon before his stock drops.

[Darin]

"How about the much improved Wandy Rodriguez/Jason Jennings and one of the Astro relievers for Salty and another prospect. Wandy is much improved and would make a quality #4, or #5 on a contender, Jennings 3,4"

How about, no. The Braves are smarter than that for sure. And the Astros don't have a huge need for a young catcher. They have JR Towles, and while I'm not saying Towles is going to have a better MLB career than Salty, he should be ok. The Astros need a SS or 3b and a #2 pitcher....

[bravesbeast]

Furthermore, Rodriguez is not much improved at all. The seven innings shutout followed by the complete game shutout is great, but a pitcher who has a 6.60 ERA on the road and a whip near 2, and who also just increased those totals by giving up 9 hits, seven earned runs, and 3 homeruns is not much improved at all. The more appropriate not often used adjective to describe wandy is the left-handed ervin santana. Wandy is gonna have to show some consistiency on the road before he has any value at all.

[delmonmvp]

The Devil Rays and Braves could surely make good trade partners. The Rays need a good young catcher and could offer the Braves talented young pitching and outfielders in return. With the best minor league system in baseball, including 5 starting pitchers in Baseball America's most recent top 100 and 9 total in the top 150.

Jason Hammell is currently in the bullpen for the Rays and projects as a top of the rotation pitcher. With an above average fastball (94-95 mph) and curveball, and a developing slider and change up, he is close to becoming the complete package. He was a top 100 prospect for 2 years.

Chris Mason, currently at AA, is having a great season a great season (11-4, 2.45 ERA, 1.12 WHIP). Top 150 prospect.

Jeff Niemann is projected as an ace. His beggest problem has been staying healthy but the 6'9 righty with a mid-high 90's fastball and devestating slider has emmence talent. Ranked #35 according to BA going to 2007.

Elijah Dukes....well u all know about him

Rocco Baldelli continues to be an enigma. With talent along the lines of Alex Rios and Grady Sizemore, once ranked a top 5 prospect according to BA and the minor league player of the year in 2003, its so frustrating to see him injured all the time. The Braves could take a chance with him.

--------------------------------

So what do you guys think?

Rocco for Salty?

Hammell and Mason for Salty?

Dukes and Hammell for Salty?

your thoughts?

[trevordchi]

Towles is over-rated and riding a hot streak. I'd take Salty any day over Towles. I would also take Manzella/Salty over Towles/salty-type ss.

[Thundersticks]

First let me say, I am a Braves fan and have been all my life. However, I have also been a fantasy baseball fan for a few years, too, so I've learned how to be objective. Bravesbeat is also right on the money.

While I, like any other Braves fan, would just love to trade Pete Orr for Johan Santana, it ain't happening. Salty for Snell or Gorzelanny would be about right. A player with the potential to be an elite player for another player that has the potential to be elite at a different position is fair. The key word here is potential. Snell and Gorzelanny have a little more experience than Salty, but they are all still relatively young and cheap. This could truely be a win-win for both, except the Braves will have taken a step back in the short-term at 1B.

As for Escobar, for anyone who believes he is the next Jeter, get real. Is he a good player, he certainly appears to be, but it will take a little more time. Who thought Pujols was going to become such a dominant player so quickly? Now, before everyone twists my words into me saying Escobar is the next Pujols, all I am saying is that sometimes minor league numbers don't accurately project how well a player will play at the major league level. Again, this is a small sample size, but like ZachAttack said, he does a lot of the little things right. I've seen him make some outstanding plays. I'd love to play him at 2B full time, but I have a feeling he is going...soon.

My preference would be to trade Escobar and a prospect to the Giants for Lowry. He's a little under-rated right now and would be a solid #3 SP. He's not a dominant pitcher, but would be a solid pickup.

I don't want to give away the future for a chance at the WS now, but we will only have a couple of more chances to win another one!!

[Darin]

"Towles is over-rated and riding a hot streak. I'd take Salty any day over Towles. I would also take Manzella/Salty over Towles/salty-type ss." -

Trevordchi,

Ok, and how is Towles over-rated? He's not listed in Baseball America or Baseballprospectus as a top 100 prospect.

How is he riding a hot streak? His minor league numbers through 2006 - .311 AVG .882 OPS...this year at Corpus he's hitting .319 .988 OPS, and Corpus is a hitter's haven, so I don't think he's playing way over his head.

But way to go with saying you'd take Salty over Towles. That had to be a hard conclusion to come by. btw, Salty's numbers through 2006 - .273 AVG .818 OPS.....

I am completely lost on your last sentence, it makes no sense. Are you Joe Morgan?

[davearm]

Braves fans are missing one very important point here wrt Saltalamacchia.

Salty is a great prospect and all, but other GMs are going to want to see some sustained success from the guy at the ML level before they'll be willing to give up their own young players who have already established themselves as high-level bigleague performers.

If Salty throws together 500 ABs of .850 OPS or better, *then* you can start talking about trading him for a young pitcher with an sub-4 ERA over a meaningful # of IPs.

[Papelboner]

How about Lester for Salty? I'd love it if the Sox got Varitek's eventual replacement, where Salty could catch 1/2 times per week to keep Tek fresh and then eventually let Salty take over. Maybe Salty can catch the knuckleball???

[GoBoSox420]

man

some of you are just downright confused to put it kindly

[Aduncaroo]

I'm sorry...but to me...if you have a pitcher with huge upside, or a catcher with huge upside, I have to go with the pitcher....I love Salty, don't get me wrong...but I just think the Pirates would be retarded if they traded away a guy who isn't even eligible for arbitration that is pitching that well....

I think the Braves hang on to him for the rest of the year...and use him at 1st. They will probably figure out that he really needs to either get a lot better at defense, or just catch...and trade him away in the offseason for a good to very good young pitcher. Salty is hyped up so much, there is bound to be a GM willing to get fleeced once again by JS.

To me, Salty's value drops 50% if he is viewed as a 1st basemen....now a catcher that can put up decent to good 1B numbers? Much more valuable...

[brnt247]

I'm here to defend the Braves fans. The majority of the real Braves fans and followers of baseball don't really post on this sight, we have a few great blogs and forums to post on so the majority of Braves' fans you see posting on this sight don't know what they're talking about.

Ruben Gotay isn't mentioned because he isn't rumored for trades. The Mets need a 2B and he's been doing fine for them.

Salty and Escobar have played great but there are plenty of rookies who have been better, just none that are on the trading block.

The Braves would be smart to get rid of Escobar because he has no where to play for the next 2 years. He won't start over Chipper, Edgar, or KJ.

Salty for Snell would be a great deal for the Braves but it probably won't happen.

Escobar and Matt Harrison for Matt Morris is a more reasonable trade and I hope something like that goes through.

[David]

"Yep, i'm 13 years old and smarter than you will ever be."

All evidence to the contrary.

"I apoligize for being harsh. I get upset with dumb people that think they are holier than tho."

I am genuinely curious. Is the irony of this lost on you?

[David]

"isn't salty a rookie? if escobar's more talented then the braves should be more than happy to include him in a deal for a pitcher."

That's like saying that since Johan Santana is a better pitcher than Francisco Liriano, they should have no problem trading the latter player. If you have two great talents, neither of them is expendable due to the presence of the other.

"by the way, mocking everybody who doesn't agree with you on your second post isn't a good way for people to respect what you have to say."

So, you would have said, "Thanks for being an idiot as well as a jerk!" instead? I've been on the Internet since it went through Prodigy in the mid-80s. While I appreciate your intention in talking about appropriate behavior, your finger wagging was placed upon the wrong reply. All I did was provide information. Re-read the replies again and see who was reduced to an ad hominem attack first. One of the universalities of the Internet is that people who do that first already know their position is untenable.

Now that the chest thumping is done, let's get back to baseball trade discussions.

[David]

"The first thing is that yes, some of the braves fan in this particular thread are completely absurd in overvaluing yunel escobar. He never was expected to be a superstar shortstop, and he probably never will be. His stats are not that great, and he never put up eye popping numbers in the minors."

With all due respect, he won the Arizona Fall League batting title. He has had huge expectations upon since the day he was drafted. The Braves would have signed him with Brayan Pena if he could have escaped the country at the same time. They always viewed him as a supreme talent.

[David]

"To be fair to Braves fans, the Atlanta GM is one of the best when it comes to getting value out of trades, and taking advantage of moronic GMs like that of Seattle. Would you have considered Horacio Ramirez for Rafael Soriano realistic this past offseason?"

In addition, people who have been running baseball scouting sites like Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus have done a disservice to the team's prospects in recent years. The reality is that in the 2000s, no team has drafted better than Atlanta given where they were picking each round. McCann, Francouer, Thorman, Kelly Johnson, Saltalamacchia, and Yunel Escobar are all high draft picks over the past few years who reached the pros in quick fashion.

Casual observers who get their information from the same few sites might not have the broad perspective of the situation, but the reality is that the Braves farm system is stacked right now. Only two guys keep getting mentioned in trade rumors, but there are many solid prospects not even discussed that I know scouts are in on. I know because I sat beside a bunch of Cubs scouts at three weekend Mississippi/Tennessee games a few days ago and we talked at length about them. This is an organization that has a AA team that won their first half title and a Richmond team leading their division. That doesn't happen if there are not prospects viewed as major league-ready players on the rosters.

[David]

"The Braves would be smart to get rid of Escobar because he has no where to play for the next 2 years. He won't start over Chipper, Edgar, or KJ."

I fully expect the Braves to shop Edgar Renteria this off-season if they don't trade Escobar before then. Ken Rosenthal has mentioned this twice now, and I have a tendency to agree with him. The salary saved could bring in a top notch player at a position of deeper need, and I say that while acknowledging he's been our best player this year.

"Salty for Snell would be a great deal for the Braves but it probably won't happen."

I don't understand the love for Snell around here. Someone said that they would take a great pitching prospect over a great catching prospect, and I agree with that in theory. The separation in opinions occurs when we factor in that a much better player at catcher is compared to a less exciting one at pitcher. That's what I see here. Snell is having the same type of season Oliver Perez had with the Pirates a couple of years ago before he fell off the table. He had a lifetime ERA of 4.95 before 2007. I'm not ready to jump on the bandwagon due to the fact that his ERA is at a nice level at the moment. Right now, he's just a guy, and that's not enough to trade a legitimate superstar catching prospect, which is what Saltalamacchia is.

"Escobar and Matt Harrison for Matt Morris is a more reasonable trade and I hope something like that goes through."

While Morris' playoff experience is nice, there is no way I would want my organization to give up their best pitching prospect (with Reyes already on the major league roster) and a contributing major league player for a guy with an ERA of 4.50 over his last 720 innings. Morris is just a guy, no matter how much playoff experience he has.

[Ripwa]

David

I hope you read this. You prove once again how dumb you actually are. I act like i am smarter than you, not a better person. You complain i was mean and act like you don't look down on people. That is being holier than tho. But you probably wouldn't know that with your head up the collective ass of the Braves.

[David]

"I hope you read this."

I did. It was more of the same. You're completely useless and I had a handle on that after exactly one reply from you. You're right to resent that and show such clear signs of anger since it's humiliating when someone sees through you so clearly, especially so quickly.