White Sox Shopping Uribe?

scribbletone,

Over on the Sox message board some of us have been kicking around a swap involving Uribe and Baldelli. I really like Haeger and would rather part with guys like Masset or Broadway, but the general idea is the same.

What about Uribe for Dukes, Sox picking up most of the salary? Throw in MacDougal or something if necessary

“Kenny Williams has already said that the Angels didn't come to him with the proposition until after he signed Uribe.”

…But this also brings us back full swing and is a prefect reason for ChiSox fans to question if KW even knows what he’s doing or is making things up as he goes…

See, not 4 months ago Garland could have brought “Renteria AND a Top-Pitch Pros”. Now, I’m not a genius, but Renteria (6M after Bos Money) + Top-Prospect seems a much better deal than Cabrera alone with a 7.5M cost (9M minus 1.5 from Ana). Chi turned that down though…
He tells us that they “might want to lock him up long term” out of one side of the mouth and that he feels they will wait till the offseason where the demand might be even higher because of the weak FA market from the other…
He also tells us that the team will be trying to compete in 08 while they were in the middle of one of the worst record in baseball…
Then add in the fact that we found out that the FO doesn’t really trust Garland and feels he has probably peaked a while ago.
Now they make a Garland for OC trade after signing Uribe because they didn’t know if they would be able to upgrade…

See, if they wanted to really upgrade over Uribe then why didn’t they do it the first time they had a phenomenal package in front of them? It’s not like they didn’t realize Uribe would be their SS back then, no one else has been removed from the market so…
Then, whats up with the “weak FA market, demand might be higher stuff”? See, to capitalize on that demand you have to be one of the last, not first, moves to take place… The Demand is much lower before a single other SP changes places, but that is when they decide to trade him…
And you don’t trust him do you? Then why did you give the “might lock him up longterm” lipservice?

Seriously, when you think about all the statements made you really begin to see the back-and-forth mindstate showing itself big time. I am honestly not sure if he has a gameplan what-so-ever and instead is just trying to stay busy… This Uribe situation is a complete joke, the “upgrading” doesn’t make sense when coupled with the ERent possibility and he’s traded his best bargaining chip way to early just to fill one of the few roster spots that didn’t have a huge question attached to it…

Whatever the case, good luck WhiteSox fans ~ it will be interesting to see if this guy figures out what he is even trying to do sometime soon…

Firstly, darkstar, i believe the offer was solely Garland for Renteria, straight up. That changes it a lot, but i still would prefer Renteria to Cabrera.

And gogopalehose, I thought about a Uribe for Dukes trade myself, and even though I think this deal could definately happen, I think Baldelli would be the better option considering Dukes' personal issues

Estrada is a pretty bad player, but he has one major strength: he is not Guillermo Mota.

Estrada wasn't too different from Paul Lo Duca last year, and Mota of course was one of the worst players in the National League. Mets fans have got to be ecstatic about this trade.

I'll take Dukes' personal issues over Baldelli's health issues any day. Dukes is league minimum, so it doesn't matter as much if his world of potential goes down the drain. Dukes' personal problems subside with a move from T-Bay, Baldelli's hamstring problems don't. Dukes could emerge as a star in Chicago.

I will say this in his comparison to Renteria, and that is that he has a clear cut advantage in two areas: Defense and durability. Cabrera is always playing as many games as possible while Renteria is starting to succumb to smaller injuries while he has never been in as many games as O-Cabs. Cabrera is also better defensively, whereas Renteria seems sorta below average.

Scribble,

Nah, check it out:
“Jon Garland can be had, but Kenny Williams' price is sky-high. The Diamondbacks, Dodgers, Mets, and Braves all have interest. The Braves had offered not only Edgar Renteria but a top pitching prospect, and still were rejected. Rosenthal expects Garland to stay put because as the asking price is not met.”

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/07/rosenthals-la-9.html#comments

And GoGo,
Ok, I’ll let that one go as its arguable ~ but its also a 1.5M difference in cash and you lose out on the “top pitching prospect”. The two trades are not comparable at all when thats factored in...

If the "top pitching prospect" was Matt Harrison, most likely was, I'll let it go because he wouldn't ever fit with the White Sox. If it was Joey Devine, well, we already have unproven arms, so it's not like he's any better(although he well could be). Renteria is more valuable than Cabrera, but let's look at it this way. Cabrera is gold glove- not that he's the best in the AL, but he's up there. He's more durable and might, over the long term, cost less than Renteria, who won't like a pay cut from his $11 million option in 09 if he's worth it. Conceivably, Renteria will age quicklier. I'm not saying this makes any more sense than the Braves deal would have, because it doesn't. I'm just saying that, conceivably, it could work out well in the end.

Sidenote: You dunno how Renteria will perform in his 2nd trip to the AL...also, the White Sox got an MVP candidate, so all the better! Cabrera was voted 15th in AL MVP balloting(lighthearted chuckle)

hmm touche darkstar. Hmm well I guess in that case then Williams did screw up fairly bad. But gogo makes a good point in saying that the prospect wouldn't have likely been anyone truly special? It wouldve likely been one of Harrison, Jo Jo Reyes, Devine, Kyle Davies, etc. It wouldn't have been Chuck James, so it could have been worse.

Ahh, but what you're missing there GoGo is the ability for the Sox to turn that SP Pitch prospect over in yet another deal.

Worst case you spin him for a upper-level BP arm and its ERent + 1.5M + better BP arm...

Best case you might be able to pull in a plus-side fielding prospect of your Pos choice. Maybe it ends up ERent + 1.5M + maybe C or 2B or OF pros...

Other option you package the guy with another player and get even something better...

This OC thing then has very little value vs the Braves offer.

Oh, and 6+11 = 17M; cut it in half and ERent kind of costs you 8.5 each. OC already costs you 7.5 this year, will make 9+ each year after if you kept him ~ but I'm not so sure you sould want him more that 2-3 years anyway and it might be hard to get him to take a 2 year deal after 08..

Ahh, but what you're missing there GoGo is the ability for the Sox to turn that SP Pitch prospect over in yet another deal.

Worst case you spin him for a upper-level BP arm and its ERent + 1.5M + better BP arm...

Best case you might be able to pull in a plus-side fielding prospect of your Pos choice. Maybe it ends up ERent + 1.5M + maybe C or 2B or OF pros...

Other option you package the guy with another player and get even something better...

This OC thing then has very little value vs the Braves offer.

Oh, and 6+11 = 17M; cut it in half and ERent kind of costs you 8.5 each. OC already costs you 7.5 this year, will make 9+ each year after if you kept him ~ but I'm not so sure you sould want him more that 2-3 years anyway and it might be hard to get him to take a 2 year deal after 08..

"He's more durable and might, over the long term, cost less than Renteria, who won't like a pay cut from his $11 million option in 09 if he's worth it." That's what I'm saying- Cabrera might be easier to sign after or during 08 than Renteria after his contract runs up. How many players of All-Star caliber coming off their age 33 season get pay cuts(Renteria after 09).

In retrospect, the Braves got a much better deal from the Tigers for Renteria in my opinion. If the stars align just right, perhaps this can benefit the White Sox more because of the Tigers losing some sort of value from Jurrjens and Hernandez. Of course, a trade will never be looked at that way.

“In retrospect, the Braves got a much better deal from the Tigers for Renteria in my opinion”
…Oh, do agree with that 100% Honestly, when you factor the three rumors/two deals as a whole, this is how I see the teams fairing…

Braves ~ Made out like a bandit. The deal from Det is far superior to Garland since Judy was only going to be there 1.5years, they would have gotten the “coming back down to earth” 2nd half of Garlands 2007 which wouldn’t have helped a ton in their playoff chances, and they saved a ton of money.

Chi ~ Just don’t understand their thinking at all… But, already gone over that one.

Det ~ I don’t get this at all either… They trade 2 very nice looking kids for a SS when they have the Top-3 hitting SS in the game already. Sure, he was hurting a little bit in 07; I still don’t think that is justification to move him under the pretence of “we want him to survive the contract we just gave him as though he was a top-3 SS instead of a rather average hitting 1B”

Ana ~ Ok, this one is a tough call ATM. IF they trade from the current starting rotation then I can see Garland coming in handy. But its only 1 year at 13.5M (which is a lot for his production, comparable is 8-11M) so its not like there is any longterm value at all, he’s just a super expensive stop-gap. Then, what if the M.Cabrera trade doesn’t go down? I know they will always find a taker for one of the arms, but what if they have to deal whoever at a lower value because everyone knows they must unload one. Then, no matter if the Cabrera deal does take place, they hurt SS a lot more than people think and the effects will be felt. They should have dealt OC for more of a longterm SP solution IMO ~ IE what ATL got for ERent.

Oh well…

Lastly as a sidenote, I would like to ask ~ how comfortable are you with OC on a 5YR/50ish deal? Currently he is 33 and hasn’t posted but 1 OPS+ over 100 in his entire career. He is generally good for a line of about .275/.330/.400 max, has already had small injury problems himself and plays SS ~ you know, the position where guys generally don’t last past 34 or 35 at… Well, who thinks he wont be asking for 4 years (I mean Eck is…), and it almost certainly will be for more than his current 9M so that’s possibly even a lowball figure. I would see that as a disaster waiting to happen…

Tough to say. No way he would get that from the Sox. There aren't really a lot of comparables, since he will be going into his age 34 season as a shortstop. I see a three year deal with a fourth year option more likely, possibly at less than his current average salary. We'll see, but right now I'm happy we have a shortstop with some enthusiasm/work ethic.

Ahh, but even a 3 +Option would end up carrying him till 2011/2012 ~ ie making it a 4+Option deal from today…

And I really cant imagine him taking a deal to pay him less than his current Avg since he is coming off beter years now then he did when he signed the last contract… But lets say he doesn’t get a raise what so ever, instead it stays at the 9M he will make in 08…
Makes it a 4/36 +Option for a 33YO SS who has hit over OPS+ 100 once and usually in the 80-90 range…

Really, I don’t see why any team would want him longer than 2-3 years from today ~ resigning him to anything more than a 2YR deal at the end of 08 would be a mistake in my mind, and I cant imagine that would be able to be done unless he tanks in 08 (which would make it even less logical to offer the extension in the first place)

Getting ERent for 2 yrs at an annual avg 8.5 seems much better than OC and extending him to a deal which would cover the next 4-5 years at more money. That means “we should be able to extend him” is hurtful, not beneficial, and Renterias 2Yrs seems much more logical…

What the deuce??

I concur. What the deuce??

Tim I think you made a mistake- don't mean to sound like a jerk-
"With Orlando Cabrera in house, the White Sox now have an extra shortstop in Juan Uribe. They'd like to clear his $4.5MM salary to create more room for Torii Hunter."

Where's the feet?

whats going on? I just realized this isn't a new post. sorry about the post i just posted.

Uhm, Tim, are you alright? Has your site been compromised again? Gee wiz.

Looks like we're re-living November 20th. Haha!

The Miguel Cabrera rumors are back. I hope the Santana rumors don't come back next!

LOL, so true! I dn't wanna go through that again!

The Cubs might want him? Ryan Theriot would be a better choice for SS even with one arm tied behind his back. You can fit about three Theriots in Uribe.

Whoa! Interesting little bit of time travel here.

Hi everyone,

The site is having technical difficulties, we are working hard to restore the posts. Also I'm not available via email at this time. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Tim

i read this post like 5 times before i looked at the date, then i was like.. oooooh.

FYI-

Brad Lidge needs surgery, out 4-6 weeks. Most likely will be back by start of year, or soon after. Some other blogs and foxsports have it.

*pitches a tent, lights a fire, and camps out until MLBTR returns*

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3262747

Colon is going to the Red Sox. Kind of a suprise move!

not that shocking iowacubbie4life, he is the best free agent available, even with all the baggage and risk, he is a cy young award winner after all. this really only makes the crisp situation that much more confusing though really.

nice find iowacubbie4life, good detective work

"he is a cy young award winner after all"

Which he didn't deserve. Hell Jon Garland got a vote that year, a bad session for the BBWAA all around.

well, it doesnt change the fact that he won no matter what you feel about it

I'm not surprised by Colon to Boston either, but how does it make Crisp's situation more confusing? Just curious....

On a side-note: anyone know a good Knicks site? (WOW, "good" and "Knicks" in the same sentence lol)

well, that really was the only position that the sox left blank. i thought, they would try crisp for the first week in the spring training games and if he didnt pan out like people thought, he would be traded for someone like blanton or something, but thats out now. so what do you trade crisp for now? a bullpen arm? we dont really need that unless we got a righty setup guy, but i cant think of anyone that fits that. i mean, what do you trade for now? crisp will not be a happy camper if he is still a sox player and not the opening day center

i guess if its anything its crisp for prospects now...

this just in... Ruth to the Yanks? why would he want to go to those losers?

04Forever:

Stret for Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson or McLaren seem like too much?

Street