Odds and Ends: Helms, Bako, Crisp

How about Crisp in new york with the Mets? Moises Alou is ancient and has been hurt each of the past few years and would probably look a lot better with crisp there.

AS fun as it is to watch Ellsbury play, Im going to miss Coco's defense. I was never really put off by his sub-par offense the past 2 years since his glove was stellar.

But I thought I read a month ago that Coco/his agent said he wouldnt be amenable as a 4th outfielder. Wonder if we can get some relief pitching?

How about Crisp and some combination of prospects for Nathan? If I were a GM, my philosaphy would be you can never have enough closers.

I don't see why the Mariners wouldn't look at trying to work something out for Crisp. The M's could move Ichiro back over to RF where he wanted to stay anyway, plug Crisp in at CF, and let him hit in the #1 or #2 spot. Now, the question would then become who the M's would trade to Boston...and that would be a challenge to come up with something that fit.

hahaha, this would be funny, crisp to the twins for two of the prospects they got from the mets

What about the Cardinals for Crisp? They can't like the idea of Ankiel in CF and Ludwick or Schumaker in RF: they could shift Ankiel to right and make room for Crisp.

Or the Rangers: Josh Hamilton's better suited for a corner OF spot.

One more for Crisp: the Athletics. It's already been said that Billy Beane likes Crisp and considers him the best defensive CF in the AL. I know the A's are in rebuilding mode, but right now their outfield looks like Travis Buck, Chris Denorfia and Emil Brown. That's pretty weak.

well, what would we get from these teams for crisp do you think, crisp is good enough to obtain atleast 2 prospects...

That's a good question, 04Forever: what could the Sox really use in exchange for Crisp?

They already have at least 11 or 12 guys who will compete for the 7 bullpen spots, and a proven closer, so that's not a pressing need. The Rotation has 6 guys already, plus some minor league guys who could fill in. Every starting position is filled.

The only Red Sox roster spot not filled is a bench 1B/OF guy, and another OF if Crisp left (although Brandon Moss could be enough for that). So either the Sox try to get that bench player for Crisp, or they look for prospects who aren't ML ready.

Why don't the Twins try to get him in a separate trade? That way the Red Sox can get something else that they need in return...

well, since we have made it public that we wouldnt mind holding onto crisp, the deal is going to have to be something above ordinary for use to part with him. im thinking 2 prospects, atleast, maybe 3.

i think the rangers would need to give up salty in a straight up trade, or two players, one of them being laird.

i dont really know what the cards have to trade with i dont really follow them...

thanks for responding meta

Ok. Out of Duncan,Ankiel,Schumaker,Ludwick and Barton which ones if any would be considered a legit starter on most teams ? That shouldn't be platooned ?

"i think the rangers would need to give up salty in a straight up trade, or two players, one of them being laird."

I think that's what the Red Sox would ask for, but I doubt the Rangers would go for it - not the Salty trade, anyway. Not considering what they gave up for him.

And I really don't want the Red Sox to get Laird. It makes no sense; they resigned Mirabelli, so their backup for 2008 is set, but Laird is 28 years old and a ML player; what would they do with him? And anyway, he's a career .246/.297/.377 hitter; he SUCKS. why is everyone so high on him?

Blutarski: Duncan and Ankiel. I'd play Crisp over any of the others.

sox really dont need a fourth outfielder, the sox will resign keilty if crisp is traded, so we wouldnt trade for a position that we have a line for. crisp will be traded for prospects, a relief pitcher or joe nathan, thats about it, if he is even traded, sox may have waited to long to pull the trigger on this. i also dont see theo taking any lame prospects for crisp either, he will push the defensive all star gold glove caliber thing to death to up the offer

I don't see why the A's or the Rays would want or need Helms. Oakland is going young, and have cheap options if Chavez can't handle 3B everyday. Tampa has Longoria and no reason to block him. Anaheim seems like a more probable destination for Helms.

The White Sox would love to have Crisp, but don't really have the chips to get him after dumping the farm system to get Swisher. Unless, of course, the Red Sox would want Uribe or MacDougal. Not nearly enough, in my opinion. That rumor is dead in the water, folks.

How about Wes Helms for Juan Uribe? That would give the Sox a back up 3B/1B, since they don't have a backup 1B with Swisher manning CF everyday. Philly could use the middle infield depth with Utley becoming injury prone and MVP contender Jimmy Rollins needing a day off here and there.

i actually like that deal jlb1980, i think the orioles would be intrigued by Felix Pie in a deal of three or 4 guys enough to part with them both, and i think the sox would like murton enough, as long as they got a relief pitcher as the second guy. the only thing, the sox outfield is alittle tight for room, so tight its why we are discussing this in the first place, since murton is mlb ready, it presents a problem, where do you put him?

how about geovany soto to the sox for crisp, could you live with that? or maybe buck coats?

yeah, i didnt think so, soto looks extremely promising. well it would have to be for prospects since thats really all the cubs have to offer that would fit for us, and we really need a catching prospect very badly, some infielders wouldnt suck to be honest, 3rb base in particular after Lowell is gone. relievers never ever hurt either, got anything in mind?

04Forever, the Sox actually have 4 solid 3B prospects, any of whom could be ready to take over when Lowell is gone. I'm not saying that they shouldn't pursue a good prospect, I just think it's not a very pressing need. I think they'd be better off if they looked for RP, 1B and C prospects.

What about Wuertz? He was second in the league, behind Marmol, in not allowing inherited runners to score.

Ok...Helms for Uribe would not be a smart trade for the Phillies.

Number one, Utley is not injury prone. Anyone who takes a fastball off the hand is going to have a broken hand, that is why Utley was out this year. And Utley was out last year because Rowand was an idiot and collided with him in CF during that Chicago Cubs game.

Number two, we have Eric Bruntlett to spell JRoll every now and then. I know Uribe is better, but Bruntlett will be fine as a backup.

However, Helms to the ChiSox for some relief (MacDougal or Cotts) would make more sense. Gillick and Williams have a connection already, so that would make sense.

Matt Murton wouldn't interest the Sox as much as you think. Remember, he used to be a prospect for the Sox until they included him in the Nomar deal a few years ago.

Brandon Moss is essentially the same caliber player and would adequately fill in the fourth outfielder role for this team should Crisp be traded. Kielty could be resigned as well.

The biggest question mark the team has is no catching depth. Mirabelli will be tolerable for one more season, barring an injury to Varitek. There is nobody behind him, however.

Would Texas give up Taylor Teagarden instead of Salty? What other teams have viable catching prospects who wouldn't necessarily have to start the season in the Bigs but aren't far off from getting there?

My apologies on the Cotts mistake. The point was to get relief for Helms.

"The biggest question mark the team has is no catching depth. Mirabelli will be tolerable for one more season, barring an injury to Varitek. There is nobody behind him, however."

The Red Sox do actually have a very solid catching prospect in George Kottaras. I suspect he'll be ML-ready, at least in a backup role, by 2009.

And before anyone says "Kottaras sucked in AAA!": he struggled initially in 2007, yes. That is because he jumped from AA to AAA, and faced tougher competition. He made adjustments, and in the second half of 2007 he hit .318/.389/.582 with 6 HR, 21 RBI and 20 Runs in only 110 AB. His defense has also improved, and he has a strong arm.

I'd like to see the Red Sox resign Varitek to a 2-year deal for 2009-10, and have Kottaras back him up those two years, gradually taking over more and more playing time. Then Kottaras could take over as the Sox full-time catcher in 2011.

I'm sure the White Sox would give up Cotts for helms:)

But, seriously, the Sox wouldn't want Helms. The Sox are looking for to add prospects right now after trading the farm for Swisher and Quentin.

I think when they unload Crede and Anderson in Feb. that's what they'll get back.

04Forever, yeah, Teagarden is probably going to start 2008 with the Rangers' AA team. I don't know if the Rangers will give him up, though; he's a very highly-touted prospect.

Crisp is a crap player. He can steal a few bases but thats it. He is pretty much Corey Patterson with more walks and a lot less SBs. He isn't worth anything. Most teams have better choices on their team already.

Crisp is not a top prospect or even an All star type player. He is over-hyped (like the Yankees Cabrera) because of where they play. Not how they play.

28 year old OF with no power or ability to get on base?

I can't see many teams looking to trade for that.

There is NO CHANCE that Nathan is going to Boston. No chance. Also, there is NO CHANCE that the Twins would give absolutely anything of value for Coco Crisp. Some of you guys have mentioned all these top prospects for Coco Crisp?

After the Red Sox jerked the Twins around what makes you think the Twins would be as equally cordial back to the Red Sox. All we have been hearing here in Minnesota is how the Red Sox have their best offer on the table, take it or leave it. Well, with that posturing from the Red Sox I would bet my house that the Twins don't offer anything else than a low A ball OF prospect for Crisp, if even anything that good. Come on. Face it Red Sox fans, you have tipped your hand with Crisp. Sound familiar? There is a small market for Crisp because you waited too long - why would anyone now give you anything that you need?

I feel like I'm reading posts from God when I read these Red Sox rumors.

the reason the price is high is because the sox dont need to trade crisp. we arent financially hurt, we dont have to many players, he doesnt hate being in boston, there arent any factors that are rushing us to make a deal. if anyone pays it, lucky us, if nobody does, then good for us anyway, will have one of the best 4th outfielders in the game

Sean Gallagher works, he got beat up in the majors, but who cares, hes only 22, and as a bonus hes from boston. i like that actually, it fits snuggly.

I think Theo is in a great position with Coco. He can put him on the market, and take the best bullpen arm or prospect being offered up. I would love to get Varitek's eventual replacement, because I don't believe we have a solid everyday C prospect in house. If we don't get something we like, we keep him and use him for the 4th OF spot, playing once or twice a week, as well as a defensive replacement late in games for Manny (Ellsbury to LF, Coco to CF- it worked out great this past year). Granted, you'll have to deal with Coco's attitude, but I think Francona can handle it.
I would love Teagarden, but Coco won't be enough for him.

"Crisp is a crap player. He can steal a few bases but thats it. He is pretty much Corey Patterson with more walks and a lot less SBs. He isn't worth anything. Most teams have better choices on their team already."

"After the Red Sox jerked the Twins around what makes you think the Twins would be as equally cordial back to the Red Sox."

These are two of the most stupid, baseless, and idiotic statements that I have ever read on this site. That's saying something.

Coco Crisp is a back-up outfielder in Boston with no upside. He is a very good defensive outfielder with marginal offensive skills and is not a base stealer. He is also going to be making $5 million + the next couple of seasons. There are teams that will be interested in securing Crisp because he might be better than what they have on their roster today, but only as a short term fix. He won't get the Red Sox anything more than a couple of mid level prospects at best.

Most major league fans overvalue their own players - Red Sox and Yankee fans seem especially susceptible to this - but we all do I think. But lets be real real about Coco Crisp - he's not an elite or even above average player and his value to other teams in modest at best.

Wait... Coco Crisp ISN'T a base stealer? Maybe he's not stealing as many as Reyes or H. Ramirez, but over the last two years he's 50-10 in SB-SBA. That's an 83.3% success rate, which is exceptional. The only reason he hasn't stolen more bases is that the Red Sox don't LET him run whenever he wants to; The Sox were 15th in the majors in SB in 2007, but 4th in SB%.

zuke448, the sox wont trade crisp for a bench player, he is the bench player right now. we dont need to trade for one if he is going to be the bench player if we dont trade him. crisp will be traded for prospects or joe nathan, thats about it really.

I did not meam to make it seem that way. The cards have a very good catching prospect in the minors that looks like he has no where to go. I was just hitting the point earlier that the cardinals have way too many ok outfielders and NO one the hit leadoff. Sorry for the confusion I know that you couldnt get Crisp for just a bench player. It all seems likely that he will be in Boston till the All-Star break

ok for those of you that think coco crisp is "league average" for a CFer, I took the liberty to look up CFers in the bigs right now and IMO these are the better offensive CFers.

Carlos Beltran
Torri Hunter
Aaron Rowand
Ichiro
Randy Winn
Shane Victorino
Nick Swisher
Grady Sizemore
Melky Cabrera
Vernon Wells
Andruw Jones
Delmon Young
Juan Pierre
Ryan Church
BJ Upton
Curtis Granderson
Johnny Damon
Mike Cameron
Chris Young
Bill Hall

Kinda a long list I know
sorry BoSox fans. he is good defensively, but he is far from league average. I agree you dont need to trade him, but a 4th OF needs to be a good pinch hitter, Crisp certainly is not and his Agent has said he has no interest in that role. So while you dont need to trade him persay. He doesnt want to be on your team. He wont be happy much longer in boston. Unless JD drew gets hurt and he can get back in CF. Trading him for an Xavier Nady type would be a good move. your not getting Teagarden and definitely not salty. I am sure you could get them if you added a prospect or something. But although I understand that Theo "hopes" to get a good trade. That doesnt give you the right to come in here talking like these are players you deserve in return for Crisp. Because 8 teams are looking at crisp simply means they could use him, not that they are interested in overpaying. Get real Sox fans

BTW... That is almost every CF eligible player in the MLB.

juan pierre is a better offensive center then crisp? he didnt hit 1 home run last year. andruw jones hit .230 or something crazy and were not really sure if he will bounce back. by your reasoning, bill hall also had a bad year, crisp stole more bags then him too. cameron is a cheater and still isnt good enough, enough said. melky and crisp are pretty much identical. Swisher struckout 132 times this years, thats down from over 150 something last year. Damon! hahahahaha!!!

Carlos Beltran
Torri Hunter
Aaron Rowand
Ichiro
Randy Winn
Shane Victorino
Grady Sizemore
Delmon Young
Ryan Church (Barely)
Curtis Granderson
Chris Young (Only Because Of His Homers)

Thats the real list my friend. imp, your opinion doesnt hold much water

pardon my double post

"Jay Payton
Hunter Pence
Josh Hamilton
Matt Kemp
Jim Edmonds
Kenny Lofton
Lastings Milledge
Jacoby Ellisbury
Willy Taveras
Jaque Jones
Milton Bradley
Rocco Baldelli
Ryan Freel"

you dont honestly think this i hope? most of these guys are past there prime, injured severely, suck worse then crisp or are rookies and havent proved anything yet. what is your beef with crisp, hes not the worst player in major league baseball

Crisp was 18th in MLB in OPS last year for MLB CFs who 'qualified'(425 ABs). Only 21 players qualified. The 3 he was better then were Pierre, Patterson and the horrible season by V.Wells.

As an OF he was 54th of the 57 that qualified. Same 3 players below him.

So as a CF he is bad. If he played anywhere other the CF he would be worse.

In MLB its good to be able to catch. But ask Rey Ordonez where it gets you if you can't hit like a Major Leaguer.

So is my statement still 'stupid, baseless, and idiotic'?

Crisp is poo...

As a Ranger fan...there is NO FREAKIN' WAY we are trading Salty or Teagarden for him...NO WAY! Forget it...
And for all of you that dog Byrd...you more than likely didn't watch him play last season. He's not a superstar...but he's more valuable and talented than you give him credit for.

He is not going to win Gold Gloves. His career OPS makes him a number 9 hitter. No one trades quality for an overpaid defensive replacement/pinch runner.

He is a stop gap player. If he was the same player he was in '04 and '05 I'd agree with you. But he isn't.

And don't give me the 'He isn't allowed to steal bases'. Yes he is. He had a career high 28 SBs this past season. They let him and Lugo run.

I think its unfair to discount the fact that there were only 21 players that qualified with 425 at bats, 18 of which had better offensive years than Coco. That means there were 9 teams with, more likely than not, worse CF situations than what Coco could provide. That's offensively only.

To discount the value of a a phenominal CF has on a team's season. Coco is clearly in the top 5 for that in all of baseball.

All things averaged out, Coco is more likely than not in the top half CF (maybe closer to the top 1/3 if you love the steals).

There's definite value when you factor in the fact that he doesn't make a lot. There are teams out there and I'm sure the Red Sox would be willing to include a Lowrie, Masteron, or Bowden if there is a player that they want enough.

HA!

I'd love it if we fans could be part of trade or arbitration discussions. Coco Crisp is simultaneously one of the BEST and WORST centers in the MLB.

Way to compare him to the WORST signing anyone has EVER seen... that proves NOTHING... do you think the dodgers could trade pierre for a bag of sunchips?

O4Forever-

"Jay Payton
Hunter Pence
Josh Hamilton
Matt Kemp
Jim Edmonds
Kenny Lofton
Lastings Milledge
Jacoby Ellisbury
Willy Taveras
Jaque Jones
Milton Bradley
Rocco Baldelli
Ryan Freel"

you dont honestly think this i hope? most of these guys are past there prime, injured severely, suck worse then crisp or are rookies and havent proved anything yet. what is your beef with crisp, hes not the worst player in major league baseball

Dude are you joking? "most of these players are past their prime"
Sorry but out of the 11 players I think 2 are past their prime, most of that list is young players that are just coming into the league. Then other players who like crisp have never really materialized into great players, yet are still better than crisp with a bat in their hand. sorry man you just dont know what your talking about. I understand you like Crisp, but that doesnt make him good. It makes you a HOMER

Tim,

As far as the Pirates go, wouldn’t Ryan Doumit (C/RF) be in the running for the catcher’s job or has management already decided to stick with Doumit in RF? Earlier this off season, I heard from Huntington that Doumit would be tried out at catcher.