Manny Ramirez Rumors: Monday

Graziano & Price refer to Ramirez as "goofy," which fits the general perception. I'm amazed, though, at the leniency we give athletes. Manny should be in jail, really, for assault and battery. If I ran onto the field at Fenway, I'd be jailed for criminal trespass. But the Red Sox choose not to prosecute Manny. Is this justice? No. But it's the American Way.

Of course, there are more egregious examples--Chacon--and Sprewell--Sprewell ought to be in jail to this day. That anyone would consider acquiring Manny simply sharpens the point. You can lie, cheat, steal, batter, murder--so long as you're a good ball player.

I love these contradictory stories. It just proves that no reporter really knows what's actually going on - they only know what they're told by "top officials", who will say anything if they think it gives them an edge in negotiations.

As a Yankees fan, I would love to see Manny go. People don't realize that he is arguably the best hitter of all times. He can turn it on and off. If he wants to hit a HR, he will hit one, if he wants to go 3 for 3 on a night he needs to show off ownership, he will do it.

So as a Yankees fan, I would love for him to go. If I was GM of the Yanks, I would sign him after the off season for a 3 year w/ an 4th year option.

If Manny is going to get traded, it will be a blockbuster trade. I think the most likely suitor will be a 3 way deal between the Mets-Rockies-Red Sucks. Where Matt Halliday & Fuentes goes to the red sucks. Many goes to the Mets, and Clay Buck, Fernando (mets top prospect), plus two other prospects from the mets goes to the Rockies.

For those who know Omar...You know he is drooling at the fact the Manny, a spanish player is available. He is probably calling him right now telling him that he will sign him for 4 years at $20MM each...probably more...knowing how desperate Omar is. If I was the Mets, I will do anything I need to do to get it done. Mets will def be in the world series. Many being from W. Heights, would love to be back in NY.

NYY Fan.

You are completely wrong. There is no way that the Mets give up F-mart and two more prospects from an already barren farm system for 2 months of Manny. He has already stated that if traded he will not want the options picked up, he is a rental. Come on now.

I would love in game now's idea if I were a sucks fan. I have a question though, since when are we comparing Adam Dunn to Manny Ramirez? How is a guy who is basically a new age Steve Balboni compared to one of the greatest hitters of all time? The Mets and Phils don't want Dunn because of his .238 avg. You can do better than that Tim.

Burrell may have a good LF's arm but he never has to make a RF to 3B type of throw. Even if he can make that throw at a passable level (seems doubtful), he's slower than hell and would take forever to get to balls in the corner. In LF, that's not a huge issue since you're getting that into 3B which is right in front of you. In RF, much more of a problem. Francoeur, for all his hitting faults, is super athletic. The time it would take him to go to his left,retrieve a ball and get it to third is much, much faster than what Burrell could do.

dirk,

have you ever seen Burrell play? he's slower than my grandmother and she's dead. Yes he has a very good arm, but NO SPEED. He also routinely misplays balls that a RF would get killed for. There's a reason he's in left.

ALso Happ for Ramirez won't happen. Happ is coming to philly and Adam Eaton is DFA'd. OH JOY!!! FINALLY!!!

Despite all the speculation on who manny would be traded for, one thing is for sure. There is alot of chatter being reported it appears between the phillies and redsox. Correct me if i am wrong but has there ever been this amount of discussion for a manny deal that hasnt happend.

OK you can throw this one in the "stupid rumors" pile, but a buddy of mine and I were talking about this and I just wanted to see what everyone else thought...

Manny to ATL for Tex and Ohman or one of Atlanta's other relievers (Yates, Boyer?)

I have no doubt that Youk would be willing to move to left field. Sure thats not much of a defensive upgrade at first but consider the upgrade in left!

Manny fills a much needed void in left. Again, not necessarily a defensive upgrade but it sure as hell beats Gregor Blanco/Matt Diaz/ whoever else they think can play left...

So hit me with it... what are your thoughts on this?

The best trade the Red Sox could do for Manny would be a straight up deal for Adam Dunn with the Red Sox covering Manny's salary for this year that is over and above what Adam Dunn is making.

Here are my reasons why I think this is a good idea;

In seasons past, Manny produced on Offense and if the Red Sox didn't win the Division then they would have a good enough record to win the Wild Card. So Manny being Manny wasn't really a problem. This year, however, with the Tampa Bay Rays looking like they are going to stay in contention all season, I don't think the Red Sox can take the chance of Manny being a distraction or, worse yet, being indifferent or tanking on purpose. So, I think they have to trade him.

Now, they can't really trade him to another team in the AL because they can't take the chance he will perform well and help a contender or that he will perform well against the Red Sox and hurt their chances at making the Post Season. So, all AL teams are out of bounds right away.

They can't trade him to an NL contender because you know if he thought that team had a chance to make the Post Season and play the Red Sox in the World Series, he would be concentrating and working hard each Game until his team made the Post Season or was eliminated. So that eliminates NL teams that are still in contention.

So, that makes the Reds a GREAT choice to trade Manny to because they are out of contention this year.

Now, Dunn might not put up as good of Offensive numbers as Manny but he is not going to be as much of a distraction either. Plus, since he is a Free Agent after the season, he is going to be trying hard to put up good numbers so he can get a big dollar, long term deal.

Now, if the Sox trade for Dunn and like what he does for their team, they have some different options to choose with him. They could go to Salary Arbitration and if they lose, they would probably only have to pay Dunn $15 million dollars next year. That is a lot of money but it is $5 million less than what they would have to pay Manny next year.

If they wanted to sign Dunn to a three year deal, they could probably get him for $45 million, which is only $5 million more than what they would be paying Manny for just the next two years.

If the Sox DIDN'T want to bring Dunn back, they could find a way to let him go and get the Amateur Draft picks, just like they would with Manny.

From the Reds side, this deal makes sense because it would give them a power hitting Outfielder for this year. Then next year, with both Ken Griffey Jr and Dunn's salaries off the books, they could pick up Manny's $20 million dollar option. If they did, then this would give them a more balanced Offense and still leave them money to fill holes on their team.

If the Reds didn't want to bring Manny back, they could just let him walk and get the two Draft Picks. This would be a LOT easier to do with Manny than Dunn because Dunn is somewhat of a fan favorite and keeping him for the rest of this year and then letting him go would cause some problems. But, if they traded him for Manny, instead of just some Minor League prospects, then his fans could stomach that a little better and would have the rest of this year to get over the fact Dunn was gone.

Dunn is a DH masquerading as a Left Fielder anyway, so going to the Red Sox would allow him to be a DH more often. This would keep him fresher longer and would also offset his defensive liabilites. Plus, the Red Sox can afford to bat Dunn in the lower third of the order whereas the Reds have to keep him in the middle of the order where his deficiencies hurt the team.

The following is 100% uninformed speculation.

Behind Papelbon, the top 2 pitchers in the Red Sox pen are lefties (Okajima, Lopez). Aardsma has been good (on DL), Delcarmen has been disappointing, and Timlin is getting older (and it shows). Masterson is unprove. They could use a RH reliever. If they trade Manny, they also need some offense in LF. Sorry Red Sox fanboys, but Ellsbury in left doesn't cut it except as a defensive replacement. Dude will get better, but .265/.331/.362 doesn't cut it in LF. The Red Sox could also use a young catcher.

D-Backs top 6 guys in the bullpen are righties. They could use a LH reliever. They could also use an offensive-minded LF.

The Pirates need more prospects like a baby needs milk.

Honestly, I think there are way too many potential proposals. But I think something could be worked out. Here is the baseline prosposal:

D-Backs get Manny from Red Sox and Grabow from the Pirates.

Red Sox get Bay from Pirates and RH reliever from D-Backs (probably Rauch or Juan Cruz). Maybe Miguel Montero from D-Backs or Jack Wilson from Pirates if deal expands a whole lot.

Pirates get prospects from both teams. The prospects depend largely on what players are included at the major league level.

For instance, if the D-Backs send either Rauch or Montero to the Red Sox, then I think the Red Sox need to give up an elite prospect, but the D-Backs don't.

If the D-Backs just send Juan Cruz to the Red Sox, then the Red Sox probably don't have to give up an elite prospect, but the D-Backs do (Jarrod Parker).

If Jack Wilson goes to the Red Sox, then they obviously need to give up an elite prospect. Personally, I think this would make things too confusing and Lowrie would obviously have to be traded (either to the D-Backs as their 2nd baseman of the future or to the Pirates as their SS). See what I mean about confusing.

I can't see the Red Sox moving Manny unless they get a strong, dependable bat to replace him. I think Bay is an obvious candidate since the Red Sox don't have an in-house replacement for 2009.

I think Manny is a perfect fit for the D-Backs. They would prefer a rental since they already have 3 starting OF for 2009 (Bay doesn't make sense for them). He wants his options declined anyway.

The real hang-up is whether the Red Sox and D-Backs could put together the right package of prospects for the Pirates to trade Bay (and Grabow). I think so. At least one elite prospect needs to be included (Parker, Bowden, or Lowrie). Whether its the D-Backs or Red Sox depends on the major league players involved (Cruz vs. Rauch, whether Montero is included, etc.).

Here is 1 proposal, just for fun.

Red Sox get Bay from Pirates and Cruz and Montero from D-Backs.

D-Backs get Manny from Red Sox and Grabow from Pirates.

Pirates get Bowden + either Lowrie OR 2 other pitching prospects (plenty of options) from the Red Sox (remember, the Red Sox are getting Bay, Montero (starting catcher in 2009), and Cruz). Pirates get 1 prospect from D-Backs (not Scherzer, Parker, or Parra).

Lots of possible iterations.

DOWN WITH TYPEPAD!!!!!

Arizona already turned down including Jackson in a deal for a guy who would definitely net them two picks. He's not going for a guy who may or may not (and downgrades their defense).

The D-Backs would be pretty awesome with my prosposal.

C: Snyder
1B: Jackson (sometimes Tracy)
2B: Hudson
SS: Drew
3B: Reynolds (sometimes Tracy)
LF: Manny (sometimes Tracy/Jackson)
CF: Young
RF: Upton

SP: Webb, Haren, RJ, Owings, Davis
RP: Lyon, Rauch, Qualls, Pena, Grabow

Wow. Tracy always starts somewhere against RH pitcher. I could see this team making it to the world series, especially with Webb and Haren starting twice each post-season series.

Red Sox would be pretty studly themselves.

C: Varitek
1B: Youkilis
2B: Pedroia
SS: Lowrie
3B: Lowell
LF: Bay
CF: Ellsbury/Crisp
RF: Drew
DH: Ortiz

SP: Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Buchholz/Colon/Masterson
RP: Papelbon, Okajima, Cruz, Lopez, Delcarmen, Timlin, Masterson

Wow! Trade Manny's headache while maintaining offense, improving defense, and improving bullpen. Bay for 2009 being much cheaper than Manny's option.

Wonder if either team would give up the big prospect necessary to get it done.

I think ctownboy makes sense except that Cincy has no use for Manny, just like they have no use for Dunn.

My thought was to incorporate a third team who could use Manny and can afford to send a young guy to Cincy. My original suggestion was the Angels, but I can see Dodgers/Kemp working too.

http://paxarcana.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/fine-ill-solve-the-manny-problem/

I still like moving Pierre and LaRoche for Manny and cash. Pierre can play left, and his arm looks a lot better at Fenway, you can move Pedroia to SS and play LaRoche at 2B. You rid the Dodgers of a big, long term contract and get the $3 million difference from there taken care of by the Red Sox so McCourt can have his "salary neutrality", Manny and he can take advantage of the short porches in both corners at Dodger Stadium.

Then, you sit Jones and have an OF of Manny/Kemp/Ethier. Everyone can throw, 2 can field and all can hit and run (Manny can still move if he wants).

D'Backs would make alot more sense of the 4. That also would improve the hitting that team really needs. And maybe they can win the division. I might still give it to the Dodgers if they don't get him.

AA there's no chance that happens. The Sox A) wouldn't take on Pierre's contract B) wouldn't then pay the difference and C) won't move Pedroia to short. We'd then have a 9 million dollar SS on the bench along with a 6 million dollar CF on the bench (Crisp).

"NYY Fan.

You are completely wrong. There is no way that the Mets give up F-mart and two more prospects from an already barren farm system for 2 months of Manny. He has already stated that if traded he will not want the options picked up, he is a rental. Come on now."

Seriously. That guy proved himself a complete moron after only exposing himself for 3 posts. I am not even sure Guru was ever able to do that.

A few things that we are all not addressing here; which warrant serious discussion.

1. Manny wants any team that acquires him the decline his 2009 option, thus making him a free agent....

Does Manny really believe he will find a team who will offer him more then $40 Million over the next 2 seasons by becoming a Free Agent??? Shouldn't Manny be insisting any acquiring team pick up both his options instead?

Will any team even offer Manny $15 Million per year for the next 2 years when he hits Free Agency?

2.Manny and his agent got himself into this mess when they signed a deal that essentially put Manny in a contract year for the final 3 seasons of his contract by adding 2 team options.

Originally this was a great deal for Manny and one of the biggest contracts the game ever saw at the time, but perhaps the reason it all went down this way was because of the elements built into the back end. Is it possible Dan Duquette accurately projected the market in the year 2009?

Lastly....I think Manny has a real bad agent, or maybe its just Manny who isn't that intelligent.

Only a fool would insist having his options declined so he could test Free Agency. At Mannys age coupled with the baggage of his personality, I can not forsee any team willing to shell out more then the $40 Million he could be demanding get picked up in a trade over the next 2 years.

The only option and thing I can come up with is....Manny wants to sign with the Yankees. They are the only team in baseball who might be willing to put up in excess of $40 Million over the next 2 years to have Ramirez.

Regardless......How is Manny not demanding his 2 Option years get picked up as part of any trade??????

Anyone have some insight into that?

I've always respected manny but if the red sox are loking for options to get rid of him, here are some ideas!

1) look at pat burrell

2) look at matt holiday(this is his last year of contract so get him during off-season)

3) i like the idea of andrew jones. he would be a good addition.

4) sox need alot of help in bullpen so trade manny and a relief pitcher for a strong/good vetren reliever.(two relief pitchers that are killing the sox are hansen and delcarmen)

5) keep manny for rest of year and don't pick up option and have brandon moss take up the spot in the ot field or have ellsbury take left and have coco play center.

i hope that the sox make a smart move and don't get a horrible defensive and offensive player like julio lugo. GO SOX!!!

I think the Sox will/would go for a short-term replacement, like an Ibanez, if they deal Manny. They have Josh Reddick tearing it up in the minors and he is already in Portland, AA. He could be ready for Beantown in late '09 or spring '10.

I think you mean "Cross the Mets off the list too, according to Jayson Stark."

If Boras can get Manny 4 years and $100 million then its in Pinstripes. Only Hank Steinbrenner is dumb enough to outbid himself. Of course, if Manny isn't dealt and the option not picked up..... that would mean the Yankees would have to give up their first round pick and give the Sox another sandwich pick as compensation.....which I think they would prefer not to do.

Thus, if Manny isn't traded and the optioned not picked up; he is essentially a Free Agent without the top two teams from a monetary perspective bidding on him.

Eliminating two of the top financially backed teams for any free agent is really gonna make getting that 4/100 million deal tough.

If Boras pulls that off, he could probably convince the Middle East to declare peace too.

How about Manny, Lugo and Buchholz for Rollins....not sure PHI makes that deal but I think BOS would have to.

Alright I'm gonna repeat what I have said in the previous Manny post. Imagine Manny coming to Toronto and being their new DH, I know there is going to be many suitors for Manny but if the Jays sign him he will be that big bat the Jays desperately need.

I don't see the Rangers going after Manny, especially after reading this...

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/072808dnsporangersattend.43a5621.html

Also, the Reds would never take Manny for Dunn. If the Reds don't get good young prospects for Dunn, they will just resign him or go to arbitration.

a headache, a stud, and a horrible contract**

Before I get ribbed by all the hardcore bloggers, I know this wont happen but hey theres nothing wrong with a pipe dream. I feel everyone gets what they want out of this, Boston still needs a reliever but hey, atleast next year is set and Colorado gets some impact and The NL east gets a bit more competitive.

Philly sends catching prospect to boston

Philly sends Pat Burrell to Colorado

Colorado Sends Fuentes to Philly

Colorado Sends Clint Barnes and Matt Holiday to Boston

Boston Sends Cash and Manny to Philly

Boston Sends one or more of their many prospects to Colorado

as much as I dislike manny's antics at this point I'd rather just wait to the end of the season...the sox would have to eat a lot of money and include top rated prospects, lets just wait the whole 2 1/2 months and let him walk get our prospects and make that deal for holliday....the sox have unlimited money(gota love that rousch/fenway combo) so they will prob not be outbid by teams like tor,nym,ana,etc

It jus makes more sense instead of throwing a lot out there when we'd save a lot more waiting the 2 months