Rich Harden Links

figure i better comment before all the cubs fans show up. that cameron guy has all these goofy stats that r supposed to explain why this was a better trade for the athletics than the cubs. what? i hate the cubs but all harden has to do is stay healthy and this was a great trade for them. lets say he helps the cubs make it to the world series and, god forbid, win it. looks like a good trade even if he misses all of next year. the cubs sold the farm, so what. as a cardinals fan i cant figure why we didnt go for harden. oh well, hopefully he gets hurt.

Well, when Mark Mulder was traded he had gone 72-32 (+40 wins) in 4 years, and Harden was 36-19 (+17 wins) in 5+ years. For those of you who dont remember, the A's got Haren, Barton, and Calero for Mulder. Then Haren was swapped for Dava Eveland, Greg Smith, Brett Anderson, Chris Carter, Aaron Cunninham, and Carlos Gonzales. Billy Beane always finds ways to get the most for his guys-this was the right trade at the right time. Even still, does anyone else feel that Harden is another Prior/Wood waiting to happen? Great stuff but an injury about to happen. Joel Sherman is right, the Cubs were finally getting out of the heartbreak kids and just got right back in.

one more thing because i like the cubs so much. did u cubs fans know that between zambrano, fukudome, marquis, soriano, lilly, derosa, and ramirez the payroll will increase 22 million dollars for the same players next year? thats todays buy now pay later attitude for u. i guess u cant put a price on a championship right?

"one more thing because i like the cubs so much. did u cubs fans know that between zambrano, fukudome, marquis, soriano, lilly, derosa, and ramirez the payroll will increase 22 million dollars for the same players next year? thats todays buy now pay later attitude for u. i guess u cant put a price on a championship right?"

And your point is?

HypnoToad - It would be like Wood/Prior if the Cubs were banking their whole season on Rich Harden's health. Which they clearly are not. Without Rich Harden, they have the best record in the NL, one of the best pitching staffs and, oh yes, a very good offense.

Anything Rich Harden gives them is gravy. And they got him for a package that had contributed minimally to the team's success to date.

Joelcards - so you're concerned (whining?) that seven players will get an average of $3 million raises next year? is this your money the cubs are spending? if not, um, what's the point?

my point is guys there is a right way and a wrong way of doing things. u might be able to buy a championship but it will cost in the long run. of course, i dont honestly expect any cubs fans to care about that. i mean seriously, how long has it been?

Joel, there is a right way and a wrong way to fall asleep at a stop sign waiting for it to turn green too, but you don't hear Cubs fans telling your skipper how to drive.

There is also a big difference between the Cubs payroll and Red Sox, so are they winning the "wrong" way? Get over yourself dude. The Marlins may have done it the wrong way too in the past, but that doesnt stop the banners from waving, does it?

Joel,
The smartest thing to do financially is backload contracts, because the value of the dollar goes down each year. The Cubs have the money to do it, so I, as a Cubs fan, have no problem with it at all. Every one of those players are worth the money except Marquis. Oh, and the Cubs certainly did not "give up the farm". They have up a really good pitching prospect and 3 guys that they can't use. Thats important to remember here.

Outside of Gallagher this trade really does not hurt the cubs long term at all. Murton is blocked by Soriano and has not shown a ton anyways. Patterson's defense is shaky at best and nobody expects him to ever be better than an average second baseman. The catcher prospect who is struggling in single A is blocked by the rookie NL All Star at catcher Geovany Soto.

In terms of money, who cares? The Cubs are a high payroll team and will continue to be a high payroll team when the new owner comes own board.

Oh here we go, playing the ol' payroll card....nice. Yeah it's ridiculous for a Chicago team to have the 3rd highest payroll in the NL behind LA and NY. Ridiculous I tells ya! Grow up.

As for Harden, this really was a luxury move for the Cubs...low risk/high reward. As it stood, with the Sabathia addition, the Cubs were still quite a bit better than both the Brewers and the Cardinals. The Cubs will really be able to keep Harden's pitch counts in check. Even a stint on the DL can be weathered as long as he's healthy come playoff time. Gaudin/Marshall are pretty good rotation fillers if someone goes down.

"but all harden has to do is stay healthy and this was a great trade for them."

This is a major contingency if ever there was one. It's almost like saying, "All the Cubs have to do is win the rest of their games and they are assured of winning the division."

The likelihood of Harden breaking down was a factor in the bounty, so how well each side did has to be measured in light of the ENORMOUS risk. I think it was a solid high-upside move for the Cubs, but it would be abuse of hindsight to wait and make sure Harden's arm doesn't fall off (I'll set the odds at 1:1) before proclaiming that the Cubs made a great trade. The A's demands and the Cubs' offer were in line with what you'd expect from a pitcher with great stuff who might need shoulder and elbow transplants very shortly. I think what the Cubs did was trade useful parts for a scratch-off ticket, and Harden topping 160 innings would be a fortunate return on investment.

adunc if u compare other teams and their contracts the cubs have backloaded their contracts more than most. its going to put them in a bad position in about 2 years(see yankees). as for the prospects i dont think "selling the farm" was a good choice of words on my part. its basically gallagher and crap they gave up. i think it was a big gamble as dunkin donuts stated but given their situation it made sense. im just saying(as i said all offseason) that the cubs will be in trouble in a few years. also im pissed because the cards wont make some reactionary trade like this one. the cards better get marte or fuentes or something like that.

"the cubs have backloaded their contracts more than most"

I'm sure you did the research...

"its going to put them in a bad position in about 2 years (see yankees)"

The Cubs don't even have a new owner yet, how do you know it's going to put them in a bad position. A middle east sultan can buy the team and raise payroll to $1.3 billion. Also, the Yankees sucking now has nothing to do with their backloaded contracts. IE Mussina-Giambi have been great this year, besides their infinite payroll does not prohibit them from getting any new talent? I'm sure they'll be in on Fielder and Teixeria when they're on the market.

"im just saying(as i said all offseason) that the cubs will be in trouble in a few years."

Oh No!!!!!

"also im pissed because the cards wont make some reactionary trade like this one. "

Cardinals owners are too busy swimming in their money bins like Scrooge McDuck to be adding any payroll.

I'm not sure why so many of these writers want to declare a winner right off the bat. It's way too early to tell. We have to wait and see if Harden is around for October to determine if this deal will help the Cubs. The A's have to wait and see how Gallagher and the rest of the crew pan out. I'm hoping this is a win-win deal. The Cubs get the #2 starter they've lacked and the A's get 3 good players to plug in right now. While none of them will likely be stars, Gallagher is nearly certain to be a solid starter in the middle of that rotation...maybe more. Murton and Patterson are potential everyday players. And Donaldson is a Beane type of player who raked last year but has struggled this year. He could wind up being a nice offensive catcher. I don't think Beane's incentive was that Harden is about to get hurt (although he may). He just jumped at a chance to get 3 players who are very likely to start this year and who fit into the A's style of play. He traded Harden because he's been healthy and he took the opportunity to deal him while he still has value...and he may well have improved his team in the process. The Cubs don't have a 5 year plan right now, they're trying to strike while the iron is hot and win this thing. If they can get a pitcher that upgrades their staff for the next 2 years they have to take him...even if it's a big risk. The Cubs have a small window here. They know they have a chance to win it all and none of the guys they traded would have been a factor this year if the Cubs make the playoffs. Having 2 pitchers capable of dominating a game is a nice asset to have if you're in a short series. It's a deal both sides had to make and I really hope both teams profit from it.

ok teetz i agree with some of what u said. i really did do the research just so u know. cots baseball contracts has all your contract needs. check it out, very cool. i agree with the muss/giambi points. they have performed and thats not why they r losing. this year though its jeter, damon, and whoever else is underperforming. im not saying jeter sucks but i think he makes 18 per. sure if the cubs decide to spend more in the next few years it really wont matter but nobody knows that. they know they will have to pay these guys because they signed them. i know as a cubs fan u dont care about the future and really i dont blam u. and yea the cards owners r greedy and any other word u can think of that means the same. i just think the cubs will regret this all in a few years. of course if they win it all i would be wrong.

Marquis comes off the books after next year, and Lilly the year after that. DeRosa is worth every penny and then some. Remember when the Cards fans were touting Kennedy and saying we overpaid for DeRosa? The only long term guys that we have signed past 2010 that are backloaded are Ramirez, Soriano, and Fukudome, right? I am more than fine with that...

"The Cubs sold the farm (for Harden)"

WHAT???

Matt Murton and Eric Patterson will NEVER amount to anything (at least they won't if they stay with the Cubs). Getting rid of their dead weight was the best thing the Cubs have done in a long time. Gallagher wasn't bad and he had potential (though he seemed a bit stupid in his pitching decisions), but, honestly, do any Cubs fans here see him becoming a star while a Cub? Never gonna happen. And if he's not going to be a star with the Cubs, why bother?

Jim Hendry made a fantastic trade, with little risk for the Cubs. Even if Harden's arm can't stand up to what's needed of a starter, he can always be turned into a star short-reliever or closer, and him (or Wood) could then be traded, if needed, to get another necessary player.

And what if the Cubs' budget does go haywire ("damn the engines, I need more power, Scotty!!!"). Worrying about the payroll is one of the reasons why the Cubs haven't won a World Series in 100 years. Old cheapskate Wrigley wouldn't spend a dime to keep a good team together. Besides, if the Cubs did win a WS this year, they would receive a boost in merchandise sales, etc. that would make the oil companies jealous (forgive the exaggeration), and chances are the Cubs will be bought by somebody who will be highly motivated to go to the wall and spend even more for them. Hopefully it's Mark Cuban, and hopefully his nemesis and Steinbrenner bud, Donald Trump, will say that Cuban's a loser just like the Cubs are, and that will tick him off enough to spend some serious green.

Now if only the Cubs could find a way to get rid of Marquis.

The coming months (and years) of this season in the NL Central are going to make for some exciting baseball.

If you keep thinking just about the future then it'll never come. For the Cubs, its come all together right now. Its kinda the point to win a world series...if they win, NOTHING will be regretted, even if Harden's arm falls off.

Sure, Hindsight will be 20/20, but right now, Hendry is giving his team the best chance to win THIS season. They'll deal with next season when it gets here.

"Jim Hendry made a fantastic trade, with little risk for the Cubs. Even if Harden's arm can't stand up to what's needed of a starter, he can always be turned into a star short-reliever or closer, and him (or Wood) could then be traded, if needed, to get another necessary player."

Now that's a flat out lie. Harden's arm is as risky as they come; an arm the Cubs are relying on. If his arm can stand up to starting what makes you think he can throw in the bullpen? If he can heave a baseball, he'll be starting.

I agree with the commenter who said it doesn't make sense to try to judge these deals now. A lot of them need several years to be judged. But, I guess it's fun to try.

I don't think the Cubs mortgaged the future at all. Murton and Patterson were going to be blocked for a while. They may turn out to be good players, but it probably wouldn't have happened with the Cubs. Gallagher was a guy they had pegged as a future rotation guy, probably next year, but the Cubs are thinking this year. Gallagher is the one guy they hated to part with...but if Harden stays healthy and helps the Cubs contend for the WS for the next 2 years, then it's worth it. Donaldson was blocked by 2 young catchers: Soto and Castillo in AA. The Cubs still have their farm nearly 100% in tact. The future for the Cubs isn't Murton and Patterson; it's Tyler Colvin, Josh Vitters, and Tony Thomas. Gallagher is a loss and they don't have a pitching prospect with his combination of traits, but Zambrano, Harden, Lilly, and Dempster (if they sign him) will be around for a couple of years until the next wave of guys are ready. They are all still relatively young.

Judging from Hendry's comments regarding Dempster, I think they will be signing him to a 3 year deal in the offseason. He apparently was raving about Dempster as not only a player, but the perfect employee as well. I think Dempster is going to get 3/33 in the offseason.

Also, Rich Hill FINALLY took a small step forward in his last start, not walking anyone and throwing shutout baseball. It was rookie ball, but at least he proved it actually is possible to throw strikes! This is obviously a HUGE if, but I'm an excited Cubs fan, so bear with me here. If Hill comes back, next year's rotation could look like:

Zambrano
Harden
Dempster
Lilly
Hill/Gaudin/Marquis

Can you imagine if Hill could come back and pitch like last year, what that rotation would be like? There are big if's there, don't get me wrong...I know that. But still, it is definitely a possibility.

"Now that's a flat out lie. Harden's arm is as risky as they come; an arm the Cubs are relying on. If his arm can stand up to starting what makes you think he can throw in the bullpen? If he can heave a baseball, he'll be starting."

I meant that if his arm is considered too fragile to continually risk starting, he could be turned into a pitcher who need only worry about pitching one inning at a time as a closer/set-up man (and even Harden's arm--which has never needed surgery--can do this). This is exactly what was done with Kerry Wood. The reason Wood's a closer now is because nobody wants to risk him pitching long innings as a starter and getting injured again.

Yes, this trade does have little downside to it (and if it works, the results will kick ass). Gallagher would never have given the Cubs what they need on a consistent basis, and getting a guy like Wolf or somebody similar would have only been more of the same for the Cubs staff. What the Cubs need is somebody who can be counted on to throw strikes, and not give back hard-earned runs because they can't help but walk the lead-off man.

No guts, no glory. Great job, Hendry. And if we lose, at least we tried.

"I agree with the commenter who said it doesn't make sense to try to judge these deals now. A lot of them need several years to be judged. But, I guess it's fun to try."

You bet it is. Why bother wasting time blogging if it wasn't?

Any chance we can get bedard now ?

"I agree with the commenter who said it doesn't make sense to try to judge these deals now."

Yes and no. We all know as Cubs fans that Patterson, Murton, and Donaldson weren't going to even get chances as Cubs. Moreso Murton and Patterson than Donaldson...but even he has another prospect on top of Soto blocking him. As far as Gallagher, Harden, and Gaudin, yes, we can wait and see. But for the Cubs to get these guys while unloading 3 guys that they literally couldn't use, you HAVE to applaud Jim. If he was giving up Veal and Ceda types...it would be more of a wait and see. But with him giving up guys that we couldn't use anyway, we know that part is a huge win for the Cubs.

Joel those are some mighty sour grapes you're sucking.

Your comparison of the Cubs' payroll situation to that of the NYY falls flat.

The Yanks' big-ticket guys are already on the wrong side of 35 (Mussina, Rivera, Giambi, Pettitte, Posada), or getting real close to it (Abreu, Damon, Matsui, Jeter).

Meanwhile Soriano is the only guy the Cubs have that will be over 35 by the time his current contract ends.

So I'm not sure why the Cubs should be particularly alarmed about having 32-YO Derrek Lee signed for another 2 years, 30-YO Ramirez for another 3, 31-YO Fukudome for 3, 27-YO Zambrano for 4, or 32-YO Lilly for 2.

Those 5, plus Soriano, are their only commitments beyond next season. Only Soriano's contract should be a concern.

I think, Tim, that you're totally wrong about Law's take. The only way he thinks it's a fair trade is if Harden breaks down right away.

He says, "What Oakland gets is an unexciting package of 'stuff,' with no top-shelf prospect or high-ceiling player, but several players of value.

That's about my take. Gallagher's not worth much more than Gaudin--as Christina Kahrl points out. And the other guys are fill-in parts (Murton and Patterson)and a sandwich round pick who's fallen into the mustard jar.

i was comparing the contracts to yankees contracts a few years ago. u r right, nobody is old but soriano at the end of their deal. its the escelating pay i think is stupid. adunc is also talking about dempster for 3/33. they cant pay everybody. the cubs will be in trouble in a few years financially but, like ive said a few times already, it was still worth it for them and their situation. unless they increase the payroll 40 million next year there willl be guys leaving(kerry wood anyone?). i dont think cubs fans really care what will happen 2 years from now, im just trying to rain on your parade.

The Cubs would have to increase payroll $10-$20M to keep this year's team intact, not $40M.

I think the A's got the better end of the deal. The only pitcher the A's got rid of that has pitched nearly as well in the National League was Dan Haren. Hudson has been inconsistent for the Braves, Zito has been awful, and Mulder has been injured. Harden also has injury issues.

Jim Callis also thinks the A's made a terrible trade. All the analysts I've read who are true analysts, except Rob Neyer, think the Cubs got a real steal.

Next up:

AJ Burnett for Ronnie Cedeno and Sean Marshall

and

Coco Crisp for Jason Marquis and Michael Wuertz.

Does anybody think Micah Hoffpauir will be traded before the deadline? He's a bit old but, when given the chance, he has very nice potential (and I only wish Pinella would've given him more time in Interleague play). If they're not going to trade him, they ought to put him on a diet and start training him for the outfield.

Playoff Roster looks like this:

Soto
Lee
DeRosa
Theriot
Ramirez
Soriano
Crisp
Fukudome

Blanco
Fontenot
Ward
Edmonds
Johnson
Ozuna - pick him off the wire

Zambrano
Harden
Lilly
Dempster
Burnett

Wood
Marmol
Fuentes - what would he cost?
Howry
Gaudin
Eyre

Cotts if no Fuentes.

Would Toronto be willing to trade Burnett?

Why not? Toronto's in last place. Burnett has an opt out after this year or 12mil/yr for 09 - 10. I would think Marshall alone might get it done. Maybe they could use Hoffpauir to get Fuentes. He's a nice player but is blocked even if he moved to a corner outfield spot.

Here's the lineup:

Soriano (R)
Fukudome (L)
Lee (R)
Ramirez (R)
DeRosa (R)
Crisp (S)
Soto (R)
Theriot (R)

I think a team would be smart to try and get Hoffpauir (Angels?), but being how old he is, and his status as an actual prospect, I think he is worth much more to the Cubs than what other teams would give for him.

As far as Burnett, they are definitely willing to let him go. Teams are going to have to beat the value of two draft picks though...a SS with some upside along with a pitching prospect would probably go a long way.

Fuentes is also definitely available, but he is going to cost a pretty penny. A good setup/closer type who is left handed, and apparently being pursued by the likes of the Rays, Yanks, and RedSox, among others, is not going to come cheap. I'm actually pretty comfortable with our current roster. Fuentes would be nice, but I have a feeling the bounty will be what it took to get Gagne last year.

I'd honestly rather have Edmonds than Crisp...

We need a lefty semi-power bat for the middle of the order. Edmonds has been exactly that since becoming a Cub. Crisp doesn't really offer anything better.

Crisp offers good speed and defense. We'd still have Edmonds off the bench for lefty power and spot starts.

Edmonds still seems to rate as above average defensively. Sure Crisp is probably a bit better, but I would still rather have the Power in the starting lineup than what Crisp offers. Plus, I don't want to change the offensive makeup of this team. The offense has been one of the best in the league, and Edmonds has been everything you could have hoped for. I think you have to start him and have that lefty bat after either Ramirez or Soto. I'm not saying its a horrible idea by any means...but I just don't want to disrupt the team with the best record in the NL too much. Coco is a big personality to add to this mix...

I agree. Don't change the offensive scheme of the Cubs. They have so many people that can hit in many different spots in the lineup it's just beautiful.

Fuentes would be nice to have, but I don't see it with what he'd cost. From what I've read Colorado wants an arm and a leg for him. Hendry probably goes for #5 starter.

It doesn't matter. Cubs have an awesome rotation. And A's will have a awesome rotation
Eveland
Gallagher
Smith
Gozalez
going to be good for along time to come.

Cubs are good now
Zambrano
Harden
Lilly
Dempster
Marquis
and going to win the division.

cubs fans u will want edmonds starting in the postseason if u make it. the playoffs r difficult to handle the pressure and edmonds has ben there before. i still think ankiel is awesome of course but if both teams were ni the postseason this year i would take edmonds in center. experience matters in the playoffs usually.

rather have Edmonds than Coco. Edmonds has more power than coco. Joelcards makes a good point, its all about experience. I jsut think that cubs will have an amazing next 4 months. Cant wait to see th brewers, and sweep them! GO CUBBIES!! 5 games up!!!

Matt Murton >>> Emil Brown

Beane sent Murton to AAA - Sacramento.. So, where is Beane going to flip Murton and w/ whom? Murton/Street for Brignac + Prospects to the TB Rays?

I'm curious as to how this deal possibly sells out the Cubs' future, Joel. Then again, I don't expect a Cardinal fan to know what lurks in the Cubs' farm system.

Murton was a good player without a position. Soriano and Fukudome are both locked into LF/RF for years. The only possible opening is CF, which Murton can't play.

Patterson, might have been better used earlier in a Brian Roberts trade. However, with DeRosa and Theriot playing well, and Cedeno showing signs of putting it together... there's really no room for Patterson. On top of this, one of the Cubs' highest rated prospects happens to be a player by the name of Tony Thomas that is very similar to Patterson... but can actually play well at 2B.

Donaldson? With the emergence of Soto... Donaldson's no longer required. Plus, the Cubs' have Jake Fox as a fall back and another decent prospect in Wellington Castillo.

The only prospect that could possibly be "selling out the cubs' future" is Gallagher. I like Gallagher. I think he'll eventually be a strong SP in the MLB. However, Rich Harden's better... and only a few years older. If Harden can finally break out of his injury history (yeah right, I know), he could have another good 6-8 years left in him... and those could all end up with a Cubs' jersey on. On top of this, if I'm not mistaken, Gallagher barely rated above Donald Veal (whom has made an incredible turn around from last season in AA). Also, they have promising prospects like Mitch Atkins, Jeff Samardzija, Marco Cariilo, Randy Wells, and Kevin Hart. Furthermore, let's not write off Rich Hill entirely just yet.

So, how is this selling out the future again? Basically, your statement is like saying the Cardinals will be selling out the future if they trade Chris Duncan and Anthony Reyes.

There's no way that Marshall alone gets Burnett. If the Jays hold onto him, there's almost no doubt he'll opt out of his contract. Which means that they'll get 2 high draft picks that can both net a player of Marshall's caliber... and perhaps higher.

I agree with Aduncaroo that it will take at last 2 good players at SS and SP... and possibly a third. Perhaps Cedeno and Marshall could be the beginning of a deal. Maybe adding Jake Fox and/or Hoffpauir could get it done... but it's still doubtful. There will be other teams after Burnett, and they could put together pretty good offers as well.

I think from the Cubs standpoint, it would take

Cedeno

Marshall or Gaudin

Veal

for Burnett

With what the Cubs have, and for the sake of keeping the winning chemistry, I think you leave the rotation alone now. If there are any upgrades to be made, it should be another back end bullpen guy to take some of the load off Howry/Marmol/Wood.

Just a hypothetical (mostly based on my anger of yesterday's Cubs game vs. the Reds, where they lost 12-7), how about putting Lilly w/some lesser guys in a deal for an even more studly starting pitcher? Lilly is a pitcher ill-suited to playing in Wrigley Field. He can't help throwing the over-the-plate fastball in the most predictable of circumstances, thus resulting in his high homer count. You can't have a guy like this in Wrigley, which is one of the leagues best homer parks (and why Pinella started him, w/the leeway of an All Star break coming up, against the Reds instead of the Giants--on a day when the wind was screaming out--is yet another reason why Pinella continues to irritate the hell out of me). Sure this guy has great games, but, let there be no doubt, he WILL do what he did yesterday time and time again, and as the Cubs go into the Playoffs, etc., and play big slugging teams, this could prove disastrous for the Cubs. Instead of winning a game they need to at Wrigley, Lilly could blow it all just to satisfy his incorrigible penchant to throw the long ball. If the Cubs want to win at Wrigley in the post-season, they need to get SP's who keep the ball on the ground.

Maybe I'm wrong here and maybe I'm still ticked off at yesterday's game. The thing is, though, yesterday wasn't an exception for him. He's done this before (like in the White Sox series at Wrigley--but in that he was lucky the Cubs offense was able to redeem him).

What do you guys think? Perhaps, they should've put him in a deal for Sabathia (as well as getting Harden)?

Perhaps, the Cubs could find a way to replace Lieber, too (or force him into retirement). I was just looking at the Cubs pitching stats on MLB.com. Lieber has given up 9 homers this year, the third highest on the Cubs team (Lilly has a whopping 21!). The thing, though, is that LIEBER IS A RELIEF PITCHER!!! In his limited innings he has to give up NINE homers??? This guy's more of a liability than an asset (and Pinella should have put in Marshall--or ANYBODY--yesterday instead of him, or Wuertz, another schmuck). What's the point of trying to come back in a game if you're going to put in Lieber (and other Junior Varsity bullpen losers) and they give all the runs back?

PUT LIEBER OUT TO PASTURE NOW! The Cubs could get a guy from the minors who would give up fewer homers than him.

Sorry for the anger guys, but it's better being angry now than in the playoffs, where Lieber and Lilly could piss it all out of reach for the offense to redeem, and we all have to say to ourselves, "Next year is the year!"

Perhaps, the Cubs could find a way to replace Lieber, too (or force him into retirement). I was just looking at the Cubs pitching stats on MLB.com. Lieber has given up 9 homers this year, the third highest on the Cubs team (Lilly has a whopping 21!). The thing, though, is that LIEBER IS A RELIEF PITCHER!!! In his limited innings he has to give up NINE homers??? This guy's more of a liability than an asset (and Pinella should have put in Marshall--or ANYBODY--yesterday instead of him, or Wuertz, another schmuck). What's the point of trying to come back in a game if you're going to put in Lieber (and other Junior Varsity bullpen losers) and they give all the runs back?

PUT LIEBER OUT TO PASTURE NOW! The Cubs could get a guy from the minors who would give up fewer homers than him.

Sorry for the anger guys, but it's better being angry now than in the playoffs, where Lieber and Lilly could piss it all out of reach for the offense to redeem, and we all have to say to ourselves, "Next year is the year!"

Maybe we could trade Lilly (with some guys like Cedeno or Hoffpauir, or whomever) to a team that plays in a ballpark with little wind and a deep outfield, where half of Lilly's homers would instead be fly outs. In exchange we could get a guy who keeps the ball on the ground. All parties, especially Lilly's ERA, would benefit from this.

But we have to trade him. If Lilly pitches in Wrigley in the post-season against slugging teams like the Phillies, Marlins, Cards, Brewers, Red Sox, and/or White Sox, the Cubs are gonna get screwed (especially when you consider that if Lilly starts to blow the game, he'll be replaced with guys like Lieber and Wuertz, who will only put the game further out of reach for the Cubs' offense).

PLEASE JIM HENDRY, TRADE TED LILLY, for all Lilly offers the Cubs in the post-season is four words "WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR!"

I hope I'm wrong in this.

JOELCARDS is an IDIOT!!!...Who wishes for anyone to get hurt?