Where Could Prince Land?

What about the A's? Oakland has nothing but pitching depth.

Street/Eveland/Smith/Mazzaro could all leave Oakland.

Cain for Prince straight up...I would say the Brewers would win that deal...both good young players but I will always take a good young pitcher over a hitter...especially going to where the Giants play...not too hitter friendly...plus I'm not completeley sold on Prince yet either...not sure if he's already met his ceiling.

Why not Zack Greinke for Prince?

I don't think the tribe would go after a guy like Prince. They normally either do nothing or stick to the plan. They have a mess of 1B in the pipeline. I would prefer see the Indians land a SP, Juan Cruz and a Orlando Hudson. If they can do that they will be looking pretty good going into next season.

Zack Greinke is worth more than a 1B, same with Matt Cain.

I gotta think Beane will kick these Michelins...

"What about the A's?"

I'm betting Zeigler would have to be part of that equation... of course they could alwasy try to dangle Street. Either way solves the Brewers late inning issues. I keep forgetting the A's have a war chest of prospects. Enough to get a major impact player.

There may be a shortage of starting pitching, but they're also a less reliable asset.

In that respect, a Fielder for Cain or Greinke or others is pretty reasonable. The clubs could also mitigate the potential risk by each including another player.

Prince Fielder is going to be a DH very soon.

Why would the Mets want a 1B?

Delgado's option kicked in if I remember correctly and Delgado had an MVP season...

So why would having 2 superstart 1B help?

Good call on the A's, I think we even tossed that around in the offseason outlook.

Tim- When can you do an offseason outlook for the Yankees?

If the Yanks sign CC as predicted, then I see them using Hughes to trade to replace the hitting. Hughes for Prince would be more than both teams could expect to get in a trade. Good deal both sides.

YankeeFan4life

I love the yankees as much as you do, but I'm Tim hasn't done one yet is because it's obvious and it's been talked about for a while now on what they're going to/want to do.Here it is:

Need to Let go:
Giambi-22m (NEED TO GET YOUNGER)
Abreu-Once again, get younger plus we have Nady
Pudge-We have Posada
Mussina- I'd sign him but he's likely to retire
Pettitte-His age is catching up, it showed in the 2nd half last year

Need to sign:
Sabathia-True ace which weneed

2 other reliable pitchers
Casey Blake? 1st basemen

Also we need to let go of the obvious Pavano as well.

Beanocook-

Why would you want to trade a young pitcher with loads of talent? I thought the Yankees wanted to get younger. Also pitching is more important than hitting.

"Why not Zack Greinke for Prince?"

I actually think this one could be interesting. What about something like this:

Zack Grienke and Mark Teahen for Prince Fielder and Manny Parra.

Grienke would give the Brewers a new, young 1-2 punch with him and Yovani Gallardo. A rotation of Grienke, Gallardo, Bush, Suppan and presumably a free agent would be solid. Teahen could get some time all over the field at the corner positions, and honestly I think he could be a solid hitter in the NL.

The Royals would get a monster hitter at first base, someone they could build around in the batting order. With him, Butler, Gordon, Aviles, Callaspo, and DeJesus that would be an interesting lineup. The rotation would lose Grienke which would obviously hurt, but Manny Parra would give the Royals a big arm with the potential to be a quality starter soon, even if he's not close to Grienke.

I like the Athletics idea as well.

"Street/Eveland/Smith/Mazzaro could all leave Oakland."

This one could work, but if the A's added Fielder, would Daric Barton get benched or would Fielder move to DH, either forcing Cust to the outfield or the bench?

What about something like Fielder for Street, Barton, Eveland and Smith?

The Brewers are still a team that is playing for the next couple of seasons, and a lineup that adds Daric Barton at first, a guy who could blossom in the NL, as well as Smith and Eveland to the rotation and Street as the closer? It would fill a lot of holes for the Brewers, and it would give the Athletics another cornerstone to build around. The only question would be if the A's would think its worth it considering that they'll have little chance of resigning him.

Arod188-

Yea i agree with you except, I think the Yanks should offer Abreu a 2 year deal. Even though yes he is aging, he still puts up great numbers and has good speed.

I'm going to get yelled at, but I think Matt Cain is one of the most OVERrated pitchers in the league. Everyone says he's underrated by virtue of his poor win-loss record. But I think he's got a bit of Ron Santo syndrome in that he's so underrated, he's overrated. Look at his numbers; they're nothing special. I'll even leave out W-L. All stats are three-year averages.

ERA: 3.85 (good, not great)
3.8 BB/9 (ehh)
7.8 K/9 (again, good but not great)
2 CGSHO in 3 years
1.31 WHIP (yeah, shocked me too)

This guy is a number 3 starter. And with the Giants starting pitching, I'd trade a number 3 starter for an impact bat that immediately makes the Giants a threat out West anyday. The Giants win a Cain-Fielder swap in a romp.

he also just turned 24

interesting stat though, Jesse Litsch has a lower career ERA and WHIP, in a tougher league nonetheless

I would not count the Mariners out either as they are in the market for a left handed hitting 1B and I would expect the new GM to want to make a splash to get fans back on board.

I agree with 'metsobsessed' Cain is good, not great. There is little evidence he will ever be great either, there is actually nothing great about him, nothing wrong with being good.

Also, Yankee fan 4 life, by signing CC you pretty much make the statement that pitching is more important than hitting. Hughes is not going to be the ace that leads the Yankees back to the playoffs.

Hughes value has dropped quite a bit and nabbing Prince and having control of him for 2 at least years is a pretty good deal. Prince is 24, so it is not like he is old.

I actually think that, with CC, Sheets and Gagne coming off the books, the Brewers will pony up and pay Prince his arbitration money this year. I think that, after the Brewers struggle through 2009, they will blow everything up and deal Fielder to the Giants, Mets, Mariners, Yankees, or any other team willing to give up solid prospects.

Beanoccook-

Phil Hughes can and most likely will be a dominate starter in the future as he matures. I'm not saying he will be the next Hall of fame great who gets 20+ wins a season. All im saying is let him stay and mature. Then in the future his value will increase and then maybe you trade him. I can see him winning between 15-20 games a season when he fully develops. Which i would take any day for a starter. Check these stats out.

Last two starts

Chicago Whitesox- 4 IP, 4 H, 1 R,2 BB,4 SO

Toronto Blue-jays- 8 IP, 5 H,
2 R, 0 BB, 6 SO

Or in other words. 12 IP, 9 H, 3 R, 2 BB, 10 SO

Now im not saying that those numbers mean he is absolutely amazing and that he is a great pitcher, im just saying he may be starting to get used to The Show and that he deserves to atleast make a few starts with the Yankees next season and see how he does. For more stats go to http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=461833

sorry i put 2 c's in your name.

What about Zack Grienke for both Fielder and Rickie Weeks. Weeks can try and get a fresh start in KC.

i think the Jays could use a big offensive player. when i use the word "big" im not refering to Prince's size lol.
but what would the Jays then do with Overbay? would Overbay have to be in a package going back to Milwaukee? or maybe the Jays could use Prince at DH?
i wouldnt really want to trade Litsch. pitching next season is allready weak for Toronto. Marcums gone with tommy john surgery. Burnett is going to be gone. McGowan is returning from surgery himself. doesnt leave much there after Halladay. id like to see the Jays go after some FA pitcher(s). (maybe Lowe?)

ive previously heard that BJ Ryan maybe a trade candidate this offseason. not sure what his exact contract $$$ are, but i heard compared to other closers its not that much. still maybe too much for Milwaukee to be interested in though.

"I'm going to get yelled at, but I think Matt Cain is one of the most OVERrated pitchers in the league. Everyone says he's underrated by virtue of his poor win-loss record. But I think he's got a bit of Ron Santo syndrome in that he's so underrated, he's overrated. Look at his numbers; they're nothing special. I'll even leave out W-L. All stats are three-year averages.

ERA: 3.85 (good, not great)
3.8 BB/9 (ehh)
7.8 K/9 (again, good but not great)
2 CGSHO in 3 years
1.31 WHIP (yeah, shocked me too)"

You're using bad stats, that's why.

-ERA is very unreliable when looking at a pitcher. Pitchers have no control over hits allowed. So if you look at a Defense-Independent Stat like tRA, you'll see that Cain in 2006 and 2007 was at a 132 and 133 tRA+ (the equivalent to ERA+), which is well above average. Cain regressed this year to a 109, but it's still good.

-Cain struck out 19.94% of hitters faced, which was an improvement last year. League average is 16%. He gets K's.

-The only real knock on Cain are the walks he allows.

-And since I've already mentioned the problem with ERA, WHIP can't be trusted either. But if you want to throw it in there, it's offset by this year's 1.36 WHIP. In 2006 and 2007 it was 1.28 and 1.26, respectively.

I think that trading Hughes for Prince Fielder would be a mistake. First of all, Phil is merely 22 years old and has all the potential in the world. If the Yankees sign a first baseman off of free agency, then they keep Hughes for the rotation next year and don't let him become an ace somewhere else. The only time I would've traded Hughes would've been for Johan, which they didn't do so for me, Phil Hughes is pretty much untouchable unless an AMAZING deal shows, and i mean... AMAZING.

The notion that Fielder's worth Cain is just crazy.

Fielder's not that great of a player. His *combined* value puts him at slightly above average. 2007 is the only year where he's been well above average.

Fielder's Wins Above Replacement:

2006: 1.37
2007: 4.26
2008: 2.32

Cain's Wins Above Replacement:

2006: 3.76
2007: 3.96
2008: 3.00

Also take into consideration their contracts- Fielder's going to go year to year through arbitration and Cain's signed through 2011 for a total of $13.15 million. Considering his down year would be worth $13 million on the open market, you're looking at an extreme bargain.

Something like you propose the Orioles do, Tim, for Fielder, I'd be more inclined to do for Hardy. The Orioles are desperate for a shortstop, and, besides, Fielder is a DH waiting (and not too long)to happen.

Phil Hughes one day might be good, but right now hes not as valuable as Fielder.. and IMO its not even close. what has Hughes done in the big leagues to prove much? and please dont throw out 2 starts. St.Louis had a top young pitcher a few years ago, even threw a no hitter. remember Bud Smith? hasnt really been around since then. im not comparing Hughes to Smith, im just using Smith as an example that young pitchers dont always turn out as you want to expect them, and right now even with Hughes good minor league numbers his major league numbers havnt been very impressive.

Right now the Jays are not a fit for Any big hitter unless someone is traded away or its a Shortstop.

Their not going to sit Overbay on the Bench, and the OF/Dh is all covered with Wells, Rios, Snider and Lind. Unless you move Snider back to AAA which would be a huge waste the guy already tore up in the MLB.

The Brewers should trade PRINCESS to a team in the AL, because in a couple of years hes not going to able to play first, unless he goes on a diet, hes gonna eat his way out of baseball like his DADDY!!!

How about this brewers fans roberts for weeks and villanueva? I think that's fair value and gives my O's a cheap second base option and a starter to add to our one!

Lind tore up MLB in September of 2006 but still wasnt ready for 2007. Snider could still use some time in the minors, no need to rush him. he will only be 21 in Feb.

Rockies fans Daniel Cabrera for Clint Barmes? Then my middle infield is looking nice.

I can't believe the question is even posed on who wins in the Fielder Cain trade? Seriously?

Pitching is MUCH more valuable than a 1B. 1B with power are a dime-a-dozen, and they do not, and should not command front line pitching. Furthermore, the most important issue has been touched on, but Cain will cost about 1/3 of the price of Prince.

When you consider Cain is more valuable as a pitcher, but will cost less, the decision is simple. NO.

Well how about this offer

Mets Get:
1B Prince Fielder

Brewers Get:
1B Carlos Delgado
SP Jon Niese
1B/OF Nick Evans
RP Aaron Heilman

Why would the Brewers want Delgado? The whole reason why the Brewers might trade Fielder is because he will cost more than 10 million because of arbitration. Isn't Delgado getting more than 13?

"Why would the Brewers want Delgado? The whole reason why the Brewers might trade Fielder is because he will cost more than 10 million because of arbitration. Isn't Delgado getting more than 13?"

I think if the Brewers could lock up Fielder for $10 million per, they would. The reason they want to trade him is that, if he keeps his performance up, he will make upwards for $18 million as a FA.

There is an order to the offseason outlooks - worst records first, alternating leagues.

If prince goes to the Indians were would he play??? You got Pronk at dh garko at first unless they put in garko with pitching which i see not happing.

If he is traded to the Giants it will be for John Sanchez and others. Not Matt Cain. I think I will believe Peter Gammons over anyone else, and he said that it was Cain for Fielder, Hardy and a MNR LGR. Meaning that if the Giants trade Sanchez and others, they should be able to get Fielder. If he doesn't go to the jints then he won't be traded.

I realize to most of the country the Nationals don't exist, but Bowden has been saying for the last 2 months that priority #1 in the offseason is an impact, middle of the order bat, preferably someone that plays 1st to replace Young/Johnson, or the corner outfield. That doesn't land them on this list?

Yeah, it isn't like Peter Gammons is ever wrong or anything (ass I roll my eyes back into my skull).

Ok smart ass. Name more than two times when Gammons has been wrong. (As I catch you looking like an idiot.)

"Ok smart ass. Name more than two times when Gammons has been wrong. (As I catch you looking like an idiot.)"

How about on the majority of predictions he's ever made..?

Do you realize how easy it is to be wrong..?

Gammons has been wrong many a time, he's just right more than others. The only reason you would hold what Gammons says above others is because he presumably has inside information, not because he's right or wrong.

Oh yeah and by the way, the Brewers could do WAY better than Jonathan Sanchez plus for Fielder. And why would Fielder only be traded to the Giants, and otherwise will stay. How do you know that?

Joe505, do you happen to be a Giants fan..?

To MacDice

There is no way we overpay for a year or two of Fielder. We can find a first baseman internally, and I think of Jose Lopez to start out with. A poor fielding 2nd baseman can easily be moved to 1st base where he can be above average.

A new GM will be under a microscope, and probably won't have all that much freedom to do what he/she wants, especially if it means trading prospects, when we've already said that we'll be looking to rebuild internally.

"Ok smart ass. Name more than two times when Gammons has been wrong. (As I catch you looking like an idiot.)"

I think the majority of people would find it more idiotic that you think Peter Gammons has never been wrong more then one time in his life, then they would find it idiotic that I made a typo spelling out as (although my mistake was sort of funny).

"We can find a first baseman internally, and I think of Jose Lopez to start out with. A poor fielding 2nd baseman can easily be moved to 1st base where he can be above average."

Lopez isn't even close to being a hitter that belongs at 1B. If Lopez can't stay at second, then he'll get moved to the outfield. But really he needs to stay at second, because thats the only place where his poor plate discipline won't prevent from being an above average hitter.

I don't think the brewers will trade prince this offseason. Maybe midseason or next year. I like the idea of a balt trade. Hardy and Weeks for Mora and Roberts. Maybe brewers add a prospect.

Phil Hughes is overrated. He's not worth close to Prince.

I like the idea of Prince to Oakland for pitchers but I don't think Beane would do that.

Tim,

You have to credit the Reds as a possible landing site for the Prince this offseason. Everything points to them being a legit suitor.

1) The reds have the guys in the system to pull of the trade.

2) Walt wants a power bat (he wants a righty, but prince may be the most reasonable solution regardless)

3) Walt wants to increase payroll

4)Prince can hold first, votto moves to left. Only holes remaining are SS and C (maybe a reliever or two depending on what FAs resign) and he has 25 million to spend on the market since prince will be cheaper than an equivalent bat.

5)Bailey is probably the top trade bait for the reds, and he could be a great place to start (certainly as valuable as Phil Hughes after this year...still young, high ceiling)

Inside the division, I really don't think that they care about the reds this offseason, Astro's, Cards, and Cubs will be more of a concern, and if they lose CC and BS they will bend hard on possible young replacements.

Jay,

seriously? Weeks and Hardy couldn't get Roberts by himself. What, just because they are young? Weeks has hardly deserved the starting job at second...he isn't worth jack. Hardy's numbers are decent, but not worth Roberts.

A's/Brewers do matchup well

A's have a pitching surplus ( rotation and bullpen)

OF surplus...several cf's

i could see a trade for either fielder or hardy

Melvin loves those raw, high upside guys..i bet he'd want the 100mph fastball of Henry Rodriguez

with cameron being a free agent, they have a need in cf...maybe get chris denorfia. solid energy type

Street/Hrod/Smith or Eveland/Denorfia seems like a decent haul..of course A's have much more ammo to offer

The Fielder/Cain deal seems like the best one IMO because the Giants desperatly need offense and the Brewers need another pitcher if CC Sabathia and Ben Sheets aren't coming back.

"Jay,

seriously? Weeks and Hardy couldn't get Roberts by himself. What, just because they are young? Weeks has hardly deserved the starting job at second...he isn't worth jack. Hardy's numbers are decent, but not worth Roberts. "

You're buggin.

Speaking from a Jays standpoint I'd work a deal around Alex Rios for Fielder. Rios can play CF for the Brewers, has more tools then fielder, and has a team friendly contract.

The Jays just need a big power bat to put in the middle of the line-up and then they could put Snider in RF. Fielder could DH until Overbay's contract expires.

Milwakee could pick through BJ Ryan, Overbay, and mid level prospects to even things out either way.

"5)Bailey is probably the top trade bait for the reds, and he could be a great place to start (certainly as valuable as Phil Hughes after this year...still young, high ceiling)"

Actually he's as valuable as ian kennedy and he was still slapped around in AAA. You've got to be delusional if you believe bailey can bring in anything.

Hope some of the GM's going back and forth as to whether or not to make an attempt to acquire Fielder or not will take more than a few hours and look at him and his father (Cecil) to study just how huge this guy has let himself bloat up to since coming up from the minors.

His dad took 6-7 years to get this huge and not long afterwards, began losing his mobility and injuries sat in, then the power numbers decreased so that by the time he was a tad over 30, was only a high strikeout and DH with a 300lb+ body, just like Jr. is looking like now if he doesn't watch out.

These 2 are mirroring stats and career wise so far, only Jr. hasn't found a all night buffet yet he hasn't liked early on and that may be as much to why the Brewers are looking to get what they can now rather than the arbitration figures he will be looking at this and next year.

arly- I definitely think the A's should trade for Hardy. Denorfia is quintessentially a 4th OF though, and probably won't be in such a deal.

Aaron Cunningham would be a better fit for the Brewers, as would Ryan Sweeney (could he play CF well though?). I'd prefer to deal Sweeney though.

I'd be VERY reluctant to deal Street + Eveland/Smith in the same deal because Street has more value than either SP or OF. He's established as a solid closer, although he struggled a bit this year around the ASB which cost him the closer's spot this year (and the fact that 2 guys outperformed him) but he rebounded very well. I also want to keep the #1 trade chip for any potential trades involving 3B, since that is the position in which the A's are absolutely bare, and the FA market isn't promising.

I'm thinking Smith/Sweeney/reliever for Hardy sounds fair.

johns- I don't think he'll decline for another few years. I think he'll live out his arbitration years at peak, then begin the decline.

The team trading for him would only get 3 years of him, so it wouldn't be a major risk.

What about Prince to the Rays for Pena and one of their young arms?

at nrmax88, and so you can't. You were asked a simple question and you couldn't answer it. I wasn't saying ever was wrong in his life. I was saying wrong in his ESPN baseball reporting life. So you can shut up about that one. I said the only way Prince gets traded is if it's to the Giants, because they seem to be the only match. P.S. Nobody made fun of your ass or as comment. Dork.

hughes is not overrated. most people have yet to have a chance to see cause he has been injuried. when he been healthy he has been impressive and the 2 starts at the end of year are what he will be. the kid was in the middle of no hitter when he pulled his hamstring and was out for 3 months. the smartest for the yankees to do is keep this kid. he is going to be a legit 1-2 pitcher. this is coming from a phils fan.

"Brewers Receive:

Jon Niese
Ryan Church
Nick Evans
(Shea Stadium Memorabilia)"

Who would want a piece of that dump? Also horrible deal for the Brewers.

the one thing i have learned through the post on this website is that mets fans think they can just dump their crap players/prospects and get someone like feilder. i just laugh when i see post like all the time out of the mets fans. im just sick thinking they can pass off their crap and get what they want in return.

"at nrmax88, and so you can't. You were asked a simple question and you couldn't answer it. I wasn't saying ever was wrong in his life. I was saying wrong in his ESPN baseball reporting life. So you can shut up about that one. I said the only way Prince gets traded is if it's to the Giants, because they seem to be the only match. P.S. Nobody made fun of your ass or as comment. Dork."

Yes, you're right. There is no way I could ever find two instances where Peter Gammons was wrong. You win. What a tool box.

"the one thing i have learned through the post on this website is that mets fans think they can just dump their crap players/prospects and get someone like feilder. i just laugh when i see post like all the time out of the mets fans. im just sick thinking they can pass off their crap and get what they want in return"

You just learned that during this thread? Wow, you are even dumber then I thought if that is the case. It isn't like the Phillies, Cubs, Yankees, Redsox, or any other organization has stupid fans either. Wow, you are really onto something there Sherlock!

"Yes, you're right. There is no way I could ever find two instances where Peter Gammons was wrong. You win. What a tool box."

Wow I'm glad you understand that you are a tool. Jeez takes a load off my shoulders that I don't have to argue with you anymore!

Tim,

Not sure you'll see this way down here, but I want to comment on Mora. Everything I've ever read says he has no interest in leaving Baltimore because he doesn't want to uproot his family. He and his wife had either quintuplets or sextuplets a few years back. I normally agree with you that most players will agree to waive the NTC, but I tend to think he's one that wouldn't. If there has been something reported to the contrary I apologize, but to my knowledge using him in trade scenarios doesn't make a lot of sense.

ya weeks and hardy would never get roberts and mora.

What about Prince and Weeks for Bedard and Putz??

If Bedard can get healthy and prove he can pitch he might be the #2 that the Brewers need and Putz would instantly upgrade their bullpen.

Prince would be the LH power the M's need and Weeks could take over for Lopez who could move to 1B.

I think the Giants and Brewers match up nicely. The Giants have pitching and no offense (and are looking for young talent), while the Brewers are likely to lose their two aces in the offseason to free agency...affordable young starting pitching is just what they need. Prince and Weeks to San Francisco makes a lot of sense... The Brewers could then move Corey Hart to 1st...and vastly improve their defense there. (Hart played first in the minors)

if we get prince aka my favorite player in ball on my favorite team, it would not only fill the void left by Bonds leaving... it will also give me confidence in Sabean for the 1st time in my life... we have plenty of pitching in the minor leagues and with lowry coming back what the hell are we waiting for.

i am 34 years old and i have been a yankees fan since birth i have seen their great playoff runs in the late 70's with the original and only mr. october reggie jackson to being terrible in the 80's with don mattingly to having to the best record in the american league during the 1993 strike season and of course their playoff run ending this past season i will make this simple yes eventually phil hughes will be an ace of a pitching staff but it wont be in new york at least as a yankee with the trade debacle for johan santana everytime he has a bad start which will happen alot from the start he is only 22 how long did it take tom glavine to be good but the fans will say we could of had santana for this guy for the sake of his own career he needs to go and if they can get prince fielder that would be great would be cheaper than texiera and could sign cc sheets and burnett and hopefully manny arod would have better protection with manny behind then if he was president obama. hell if i were cashman and brewers would consider this offer i would through ian kennedy as well