Could Braves Target Cain?

I was waiting for this one to start. Let's see where Peavy goes.

This deal for Cain makes much more sense for the Braves than the one of Peavy. Sure Peavy is a former Cy Young winner and a bona fide ace but Matt Cain is no slouch. It would take the same package that they are offering for Peavy and Cain is much cheaper. He would save the Braves the salary they need to sign players to the other posistions they need(Shortstop, 2nd pitcher, Possibly another outfielder?)

Braves have plenty of money. Their goal is not to save money, but to get the best pitcher they can to replace Hudson in the depth chart.

That being said, it would be an intriguing trade, but I think Peavy would be a better option. Does anyone know if Cain has any arm issues or history of injuries?

hey would the braves have any intrest in the the twins young pitching for yunel escobar?

I think the Braves will get Peavy for Gorkys Hernandez, Jeff Locke and Yunel Escobar.

If you can't amuse yourself with a conspiracy concerning Kennedy, Area 51 or "what really happened" on 9/11, you can always speculate on a Matt Cain trade.

The Giants won't trade Cain this winter.

Even if it were possible, but it isn't, it would take more than what Atlanta offered for Peavy.

Geez, here we go.

Giants GM has said Cain is not available. And, they already turned down Prince Fielder for him.

I really think this was just idle speculation by O'Brien and doesn't really merit a posting on this site. Just my opinion, of course.

And by Vain I mean Cain....I apparently can't type....

only if the braves take Zito too...

It would take major prospects to get Cain. 1B / 3B bats.

If Rangers wanted in, it would start with Davis and add more...

I would say trading Davis would get the deal 60-75% done. I think the Rangers would have no problem including him.

We can stick Blalock at 1B until Smoak is ready. We can use someone else at 3B instead of Davis.

"It would take major prospects to get Cain. 1B / 3B bats.

If Rangers wanted in, it would start with Davis and add more...

Posted by: 55saveslives | November 11, 2008 at 05:53 PM"

I can't see the Giants trading Cain for anything less than Tommy Hanson, Yunel Escobar and Gorkys Hernandez, which I think actually would make sense for them to get some legitimate up the middle type players and a pitcher to help replace Cain.

Towers better make up his mind and quick. Escobar, Medlen, Locke, and another prospect for Cain. Not Gorkys, Schafer, heyward, Tehran, Hanson, Rohrbough, or Freeman

but with what giants fans are thinking this is ridiculous

Would the Braves consider Heyward, Escobar and G. Hernandez? If I am the Giants, I pull the trigger on that deal.

I am also waiting for the majority of the Giants fans uproar that cain is the second coming of Cy Young and it would take the entire Rays farm system to pry him away. This won't happen. Cain is more valuable than Peavy because of his youth/contract.

The better question now that Lincecum has won the Cy Young (congrats to him) is who you'd rather have at age 24, Lincecum or Hamels??? HMMMM

philsWSchamps,

Unless you either put an undue emphasis on ~40 postseason IP or think Lincecum's mechanics make him a significant injury risk, I don't really think there's much of a debate. Hamels is a great pitcher, but Lincecum just posted one of the 200 greatest ERA+ of all time and the 10th best ever for a 24 year old.

Cain isn't going anywhere (hopefully), he's key to the Giants future. Sabean appears to agree, stating his untouchability publicly recently (though obviously if a team wants to be stupid, he will have to listen).

However, if he were to be traded to the Braves, I would want Heyward, Hanson, and Escobar. But that would not be what I would call an ideal package for Cain.

I would want ideally at least one top prospect in the Heyward range, one top pitching prospect (1/2 projection), and someone who could be a premium starter at SS or 3B (or both) soon if not already. Few teams match up, maybe Miami wants to give up Hanley, or Padres want to give up Kouzmanov if they are trading Peavy, but then the Giants wouldn't be willing to give up the Cain, Bumgarner, Alderson that it would take to get such players.

But if the Marlins are casting off players on the cheap, like they just did with Willingham and Olson to the Nats and Jacobs to KC, maybe Cantu, Ramirez, or Uggla might be available for a big package of other prospects the Giants have, Fairley, Noonan, Sosa, Pucetas, Snyder, Martinez, Rohlinger, Misch, Ishikawa, Cowart, Tanner, etc. I mean, they are probably as good or better than what the Nats gave up to Florida.

But ideally he's not traded.

Yeah, keep up if you are going to comment, the Giants have Posey, they are set at catcher, and even if he weren't around, Pablo Sandoval would probably be the starting catcher for a couple of years. The Giants positionally are looking for infield help, particularly on the left side.

unbiasedhomer, I don't think it's posturing by "the Braves." It was a poorly thought out comment by a Braves beatwriter... with no source at all. He later more or less backtracked on it, posting in the same blog:

"S.F. writers told me they didn’t think it would happen, and I know the Braves don’t believe the Giants are shopping him. S.F. would be crazy to trade him. You don’t trade young, affordable, quality starting pitchers, under almost any circumstances."

I'd love to have Cain (who wouldn't), but I just don't think there's anything to this... and it's certainly not posturing by anyone in the Braves org.

Heyward, Hanson, Yunel for Cain make the deal. Anything less? No thanks.

unbiased homer,

Perhaps a "real" Braves fan would point out that Marek was finally moved into the bullpen last season and that he 3.56 ERA in AA, while striking out 10+ per 9 and walking 4. He's also only 2 games under .500 (as if that's meaningful anyway) in his minor league career. I guess the fact that he had no record in 25 games pitched in 2006 according to baseball-reference didn't strike you as odd...

Again you attack the W-L record of Medlen (as if that means anything) without even bothering to look at his other numbers. He posted just short of a strikeout an inning and struck out 4.5 times as many guys as he walked as a 22 year old in AA. I guess that's meaningless because he had a losing record.

Finally, with Flowers, some of us are smart enough to realize that he doesn't fit at catcher for the Giants, but he could still hold value to them, because his bat could still play at 1B. I don't think any team would really say that a guy with a career minor league OPS of 888 holds less than zero value for them.

Im a Giants fan and the only way i would see them trading him is with Heyward AND Escobar being in the package. He has a lot more value than Peavy due to his youth,contract and no injury history. Other than what i said before no thanks.

JacobAlastra,

So you wouldn't have any interest in something along the lines of Escobar, Schafer, 1B Freddie Freeman (younger than Heyward and put up a .316/.378/.521 at the same level), and Locke? I'm not implying that the Giants should, but if you'd consider something built around Escobar and Heyward, substituting Schafer and Freeman for Heyward doesn't seem that out there. Obviously there is almost zero chance of something like this actually happening, but I still think its fun to speculate what sort of deal fans from each side think is equitable.

Dang just looked at Cain's stats, guy is way overhyped. People are treating him like he is Lincecum.

McDonald, Elbert, and Hu for Peavy should get the deal done, and McD and Elbert would give them two young dominating arms

"I really, really think Cain's the better idea for the Braves. Younger, cheaper, and won't cost Yunel Escobar (hello, you do NOT trade a top 10 SS in the league).

Build a trade around KJ and maybe more younger players (no Heyward/Hanson/Schafer plz)."

HAHA Ok so basically you're saying. Let's go get one of the best young pitchers in the game at 23 years old who's locked up for cheap without giving up any of our top prospects. Good plan. You should pass that on to every GM in the league.

I hate these damn rumors. Yes, the Braves might "target" Cain just as just about every other team in the majors will "target" Cain. But they won't get him. Anyone who thinks they will is smoking crack.

When the GM says a guy is untouchable on numerous occasions, that means....He's UNTOUCHABLE, so try as they might, it would take a king's ransom plus just to pry him from the Giants, which just won't happen. The Giants wouldn't take any B-level prospects that the Braves have for their #2 starter, who is young, injury-free, inexpensive, under control for 3 more years and a stud in waiting.

If the Braves want anybody from the Giants they can have Barry Zito.

the management,

you comparing Lincecum to Jesus? I knew Giants fans were CRAZY about their pitchers but i didn't think, that crazy. ya i didn't think so?

Actually I didn't reach for anything, just posed a question that i knew giants fans would jump all over.

Oh and I said it would be worth the argument and yes I agree Lincecum has been GREAT in his 1+ year in the majors but there is a difference between beating up on the Padres, D'backs, injured Rockies and hapless Dodgers pre-Manny (ya i know he had one game against Manny and pitched well) and going 4-0 with a sub 2 ERA in the Postseason. Hamels led the league in WHIP while Lincecum was 8th, hamels had a better K/BB rate and ya he had 70 more strikeouts but also had 31 more walks. If you're gonna quote stats, quote the good with the bad. Lincecum beat him in ERA and his ERA was historic, but Hamels needs credit for his ERA while pitching half his games in CBP.

Again my point was comparing and in comparing you go ahead and enjoy his Cy Young, I'll take my guy having an LCS MVP, WS MVP and a nice shiny ring.

The Management,

enjoying the banter. Now exactly where in the "Lincecum is Great", "Congrats to him" do you see me bashing him.

As i've said before if you read my original post I simply posed a question. After I did two readers (one with some reasoning behind it) and the other with nothing bashed Hamels with the "Is this a joke comment".

Oh and i guess you missed my sarcasm about the Jesus comment. I'll try to be EVEN MORE blatant about it in the future.

Again, I never brought Lincecum down. He deserved the award hands down. Should have been unanimous, my simple question is that both at age 24 who would anyone rather have. Hamels has been around a little longer but agreed that most of Lincecum stats are better but Hamels (with the help of his team) has a WS ring and a WS MVP to start his career. To me it was an honest question about possibly the two best pitchers under 25.

Let's go ahead & get the Marlins involved in a Zito trade. Have SF send Zito to FLA, then FL flips him to ATL. We'll just have basically a do-over on the Mike Hampton deal.

I am a huge G-men fan. I have watched a ton of Cain games, it seems he is over valued. He has good stuff but he is still so inconsistent. I think if teams are willing to overpay for him then they should jump on it! If they really did turn down an offer for Prince then they are morons. You cant talk about needing a big bat and turn down one of the best young power hitting bats out there! They arent gonna good enough in the near future to be concerned about keeping a hold on Cain or Sanchez for that matter. If they have nothing in the system as far as power hitting then they need to bring it in.

And there is a little more...

"Ross (CA): Yesterday Callis said he would prefer Cain over Peavy. How do you feel about that, and could you explain why?

SportsNation Keith Law: I'd agree with Jim. Peavy's elbow problem + all those sliders are a concern. The drop in his peripherals this year is a big concern. And while he's signed and therefore under control, the deal ain't cheap. Cain hasn't had any injury issues, has three years of control left (without a lot of wins, which will hold down his arb awards somewhat), and projects to improve. He's not perfect - control is maybe a 45, and his ballpark is almost as friendly as PETCO - but that's what I meant by taking a shot on a young arm."

"Jim Callis: I think it's a lot harder to find a Cain than a Cano,"

"Mike (SF): Cain for Jay Bruce?
Jim Callis: That trade would make a lot of sense for both clubs."

Hopefully this clears up some confusion. It's a consensus that Cain would command more than Peavy.

management,

that was not my intent. He is certainly the most deserving candidate out there for the Cy Young.

And how can i argue with someone who was a fan of the best 3rd baseman of all time.

Had another Cain trade proposal for Giants fans. Werth, Myers and Donald or Happ for Cain.

That would give the Giants a 25HR and 80 RBI outfielder that still has some control left, a serviceable replacement for Cain in Myers who when on his game is a 2 but can drift to a 3 or 4 (whose contract is up this year), a future 2nd base or shortstop for 10+ years who is average now defensively and is a great OBP guy in Donald.

If the Phils are rid of Myers' contract they could go after Manny for 3-4 years while Michael Taylor is readied and you'd have a rotation anchored around Hamels, Cain and Carrasco for a lot of years to come.

Any trade for Cain would have to involve young guys...

Chris Davis + other prospects

JJ Hardy + prospects

The Giants are pretty set on luring Prince Feilder in for Cain and maybe Travis Isikawa.

Here's my idea. This seems realistic and should be perhaps looked into. Now we all know the Rangers are absolutely in love with Cain. When a team shows as much interest as they have, even after we've said he's not going to be dealt, you know they will probably make a big offer. What about this? Get Chris Davis, and then ask for All Star 2B Ian Kinsler, and demand nothing less. I would like to keep Cain, but for an all star middle infielder and a 1B who could hit 35 homers, I would easily let him go.

Why it makes sense..

1. Kinsler is 26, has averaged 17 homers in his three career seasons and has improved in nearly every offensive catagoriy every year of his young career. Last year, he batted .319 with 18 hrs, 102 runs, 71 rbi's, and 26 sb's.

2. Chris Davis is only 22 and in his first stint in the majors last year batted .285 with 17 hrs and 55 rbi's in only 80 games!! You put this kind of production into a full year, thats 35 hrs and easily over 100 rbi's.

You can say what you want about how AT&T park kills lefty power but with the raw strentgh this kid has, he'll find a way to get them out. Ok lets say it does knock some down, still who wouldn't take 30 hrs from a kid 2 years younger than Lincecum?

You're right about his control, then you follow that up about showing that you're clueless. About every scout and baseball mind out there thinks he is an absolute stud.

"By stud do you mean number 3 starter. I can look at his numbers and watch him pitch. I know you are going to argue he is young, but his numbers are not trending in a positive direction. Tim Lincecum is an absolute stud, Matt Cain has the potential to be an absolute stud."

A few things, Cain has pitched for 2+ seasons in the Majors, and over the course of that period he has pitched at a #2 starter level. Also, Cain is still a kid. He is 24 years old.

Think about it this way, I'm sure you have a team with a favorite pitching prospect putting up nice numbers at Low A, maybe High A or AA, but Cain is probably close to that player in age, but has been doing it at the Major League level since he was 22. If you think your Minor League prospect is "untouchable" how should Giants fans feel about their "proven" player?

I can't believe there wasn't a single yankees get peavy and cain post where a yankee fan then proceeds to show us the possible rotation for next year 1-5