Fuentes' Price A Bit High For Mets?

The mets need to resign Ollie...They arent getting any of those other SPs.

mkorpal, I think that knowing the Mets are the only large market team really looking for a Closer is why Minaya is looking to catch a bargain in this market (Compared to the normal going rate of Closers).

The Mets realize the supply is greater then the demand and is going to pressure them into seeing who budges first.

Man I wish I was average at my job and could demand 10-11 million a year.

Happy Thanksgiving!

1. I would rather have K-Rod anyway than Fuentes.

2. Rual Ibanez may not be a great fit. I mean how many left hand hitters can he have in our lineup. It would make it much easier for opposing teams to attack our lefty heavy lineup.

3. I'm starting to think we should resign Oliver. He pitched better under Warthren and i dont think were guna end up with anyone like Lowe

I don't understand everyone's infatuation with K-Rod. His peripherals have been declining almost yearly, and last year's rate of 1-2-3 saves is scary. If Fuentes can be had, and Street acquired for the price of Heilman and Feliciano, I say go for it. You'd have two relievers at the back of the bullpen with closing experience. And if the Mets are really concerned about giving up Feliciano, sign Beimel.

Seriously, K-Rod? His stats were terrible last year, and have been steadily declining.

Didn't the Brewers offer Cordero 4/$40 last season?I'd think 3/$30 for Fuentes would be a bargin.

BJ Ryan is head and shoulders better than Fuentes and on a 2/20 deal. One wonders if they have been talking to the Jays about a potential deal.

"As a Mets fan I wouldn't trade Church for Edwin Jackson. I'm guessing you're a Rays fan by your delusions of grandeur? Look at the empirical evidence; when have the Rays ever took on a contract like that in a trade? Dye is not going to the Rays, forget it right now."

Uhh.. Cubs fan buddy..

Can you explain to me why you would prefer 30 year old platoon RF Ryan Church over 25 year old potential #3 Edwin Jackson?

And Jermaine Dye's contract is only for one season. The Rays just made the World Series, presumably they'll have a tad more payroll to play around with. They have a lot of their guys signed pretty cheap other than Crawford, Pena and Kazmir, and Dye is pretty much a perfect fit for that lineup.

And either way I clarified that it wasn't necessarily a deal either team would jump to do.

Jeez you really are like RSD and Guru

Gravediggerhebbner.... okay, so K-Rod must be intentionally throwing slower because he said so himself! What do you want him to say?

Reporter: K'Rod, what has happened to your velocity?

k'Rod: Well, my arm is killing me, my stuff has deteriorated, I have lost 4-5 mph on my fastball (although everybody says that I do it for more location, my location has gotten progressively worse.), my changeup has gained velocity, my slider isn't a dominant pitch anymore, but don't worry about me, it is all intentional, me throwing my heat slower, throwing my changeup harder, and throwing my slider less effectively are all parts of my gameplan. And oh yeah, I also purposely increased my walk and hit rates every year.

Kherub, for such a cocky, arrogant tool who seems to be so sure of himself and know so much about baseball, it is pretty pathetic you are using saves to try to show K-Rods value. Single best season ever by a relief pitcher? Hardly. There really wan't anything that impressive at all about K'Rod this year, other then he got a lot of save opportunities. People never seem to care about any stats that matter. If you want to go by simply 2008 numbers, Fuentes was a lot better for my money then K'Rod was, and I think a lot of other people would agree.

By the way, I said it in another post. Feliciano can go where ever, I couldln't care less. But I would prefer to keep Heilman then to trade him for Street. All Huston Street is is a name. I like Heilman's durability, versatility, and even stuff better then Street. And Street is coming off a down year just like Aaron. Not to the same degree, but I don't know what is the infatuation with Huston Street.

"what do you think about Rays sending Carl Crawford w/Jackson for Dye and Bobby Jenks? Palehouse do need speed and Rays could use a closer."

If I was KW I would do this deal before Friedman even finished saying Jenks' name.

Dye is a great hitter but he's getting old and his defense is very poor now. Jenks is still a good closer but his stuff has been declining some despite being only 27, and I think Williams would be smart to sell high on him now while he still has good value.

Crawford is basically a definition of what the White Sox. They need a young, speedy CF who can hit at the top of the lineup. Crawford is the best defensive LF in the game, but he's still very good in center, and would offer the White Sox everything they would need on offense. Plus the White Sox would be able to afford resigning him after 2009. If KW could make that deal I would be freaking ecstatic, which is why it won't happen.

As for the bashing of Huston Street, I'd like to just throw the other side out there:

He was pitching great as recently as 2007, when he had a 63/12 K/BB ratio in 50 innings, posted a 2.88 ERA and a .94 WHIP. You simply don't post those kind of numbers in the AL by accident. Clearly, there has been a slight decline in Street's stuff, but he also had been coming off of some injuries, and he's still young and very talented.

I think it's almost getting to the point where Street is becoming undervalued. I'm not saying you should deal a bunch of good players for him, but if the deal is him for two age 30+ relievers, I make that deal.

"Seriously, K-Rod? His stats were terrible last year, and have been steadily declining."

Yes, K-Rod is a little overrated, but he isn't terrible. 2.24 ERA? 62 saves? More K's than innings, AND only 26 years old. Scott Schoeneweis,Luis Vizcaino, idk just examples, those guys are terrible. K-Rod is hardly terrible. God forbid the guy is only very, very good instead of great. Not many teams have great, I'd settle for a guy with the numbers and personality of K-Rod

RSD, yeah we're good I have no issues.

That kherub guy though, he needs to get a clue.

Gravedigger.... yes, K'Rods agent telling the Mets to go back and watch one at-bat over the course of 162 games definitely has me convinced. What do you expect K'Rod's agent too say? He is clearly declining and obviously not worth his asking price? That is hardly "proof".

Why do you always bring up Fuentes losing his job to Corpas? Should I bring up K'Rod whining over a called ball, and then letting a throw from the catcher roll past him to let Jason Kendall comes home and lose the game? How about the fact he has gotten rocked two post seasons in a row?

k-rod would be the best fit because of his age, post season experience and ability to flourish under the spotlight in a big market town. Remember how Mets fans loved Turk Wendell for his bean bag slam? Fans will go crazy over k-rod's emotions and he will thrive.

And I do believe that there is a difference between being a thrower and pitcher even if it means losing velocity. No one complained about Santana's velocity drop when he pitched a complete game shutout at the end of the season, and his lowest ERA of his career despite only throwing in the low-mid 90s.

my apologies for the lack of clear language, that should read:

"I am aware that my position has a much weaker foundation than..."

Starters to closers = Apples to Oranges.

"I am aware that my position holds has a much weaker foundation that one based on science and mathematics. I am also aware that science and mathematics do not put on uniforms and take the field."

Oooo that's an awful strategy.

Hey, let's ignore numbers and facts and things that we can actually judge, like performance, and go with opinion!!

Everyone just relax. The baseball gods have decided to shine on the mets. We need a closer after 2 horrific collapses, whait? KROD is available and he will just cost us money? We will sign KROD and omar will do his usual cast a wide net on rps and see what works out. I also expect Ollie to be back because as a 3-4 starter on our because he is a young left handed starter who misses bats and he would at best be our 3rd starter avoiding any real pressure because we will just throw johan 3 times in a 5 games series to avoid failure once again.

because pitchers dont have bad/drop-off years in between good ones

"I'm not suggesting that you don't, but I enjoy baseball for more than sabermetrics, I also enjoy the emotional ebb and flow, and the idea that the game is not played "on paper." If it were, my favorite team would be coming off 3 consecutive division titles, or so the prognosticators tell me.

As I am simply a fan, not a major league GM, I see no harm in this philosophy."

Wow if that is the case then you really don't belong on this site.

Most of the discussions on this site are based around what happens "on paper."

In fact this website is basically built around the concept of teams being built on paper.

If you love the emotional ebb and flow of the game as well as the game itself more than the "hot stove game", then you really should be like playing MLB 2K9 or something. I don't get why you would want to discuss baseball if all of this was the case.

Too whom ever suggested K-Rod had the single best year of any reliever EVER.

Pitcher A: 64 G, 70.2 IP, 41 H, 6 BB, 77 K, 1.40 ERA, 0.665 WHIP, .165/.190/.233
Pitcher B: 76 G, 68.1 IP, 54 H, 34 BB, 77 K, 2.24 ERA, 1.288 WHIP, .216/.314/.316

Pitcher A: Mariano Rivera
Pitcher B: Francisco Rodriguez
http://riveraveblues.com/2008/11/a-tale-of-two-pitchers-5885/

Moving on.

BJ Ryan is not head and shoulders above Fuentes.

They are the same age. Fuentes had a lower ERA, 6 less walks in 4 and 2/3 more innings, 24 more strikeouts, and a lower whip. I could go on but won't.

Now, let us compare Fuentes and Frankie.

Fuentes in 4 2/3 less innings then K-Rod, has more strike outs, 12 less walks, and lower whip.

While K-Rod might be better and younger then Fuentes, if Fuentes comes considerably cheaper, IMO he becomes the better option.

"

To Thirty5Thirty6:

I don't have time to address all the posts in this thread or even get into any real depth in this response, but let me tell ya something about your steroid hero Fairyano...with out the umpires calling anything and everything his way he'd be no better than a gigantic boil on the ugly backside of the game. Take away his steroids, and all his yankay calls, and the guy is mediocre at best. AT BEST! Francisco Rodriguez has been the best Closer in the game since he's been on the job, and I look forward to seeing the best Closer in the game close out games for my Ny METS!!

Happy Thanksgiving : )

K ~"

Wow.

I think this may be one of the worst posts of all time.

Tim, I think this may be one of those times to just put the hammer down.

Omar had better learn from the Wagner signing that old pitchers tend to break down. Krod is 7 years younger than Fuentes and his stats are put up in the AL. Fuentes is nothing special and should be paid as a setup man. Also, Omar needs to unload more old, overpaid players and remake this team into a younger more exciting team. The Phillies will finish ahead of us anyway again.

for all of you saying that k-rod's 62 saves mean nothing.... "Rodriguez surrendered just 12 earned runs in his final 56 2/3 innings for a 1.91 ERA from May through September" thats from his agent but i highly doubt his agent would lie about stats.

im not saying hes a must go after and the mets will not win a division championship without him but you cannot say he is not one of the top 5 closers in the game. EVEN with his decrease in velocity and increase in his change, he was still able to putup 62 saves. its not all about velocity in being effective. hes still got a great change of speed in his fastball/change combo and (i will admit his slider is not like it was) his slider is enough to keep hitters on their toes. as a pitcher myself, most of you dont give credt to how important and the stress a closer has to go through. someone in the post said, is heilman had 69 opportunities he would atleast get 50 saves. true but that wouldnt be a 90% save rate or the single season best save record... in the AL.

clos79,

sorry you're wrong. Better this past year were:

Mariano, Lidge, Soria, Papelbon and Nathan.

As mentioned earlier the save statistic is a bunch of crap. talk to me about blown saves. Mariano and Lidge had one and zero respectively. KROD had 7.

There is no question that each of those were better than KROD.

That being said, KROD is your best option available.

and Kherub, better known as "ALBERT"

Lidge did just fine against Albert this year. July 9th. he came in with a 2 run lead, walked Schumaker and then proceeded to strike out Ludwick, Pujols flied out, Glaus walked and Ankiel struck out.

Albert also grounded out on August 2nd in a 2-1 game to start off the bottom of the 9th.

So by my count he had 3 saves against Albert and the Cardinals.

And 0 blown saves on the year. 0 losses on the year.

Pujols owned Lidge in 2005.

Brad showed last year he's past that, its time you get over it too.

Oh and its already been said that Manny won't be playing for the Mets. They're not smart enough to pick up Manny. Omar will probably resign Alou or maybe Julio Franco to another 2 year contract.

obviously no one (with the exception of trevor hoffman) can compare to mariano rivera. he has had so much more experience than those people mentioned by philschamp whatever (no disrespect to your name, just forgot it) but if you have 62 saves in a single season you cannot degrade that closer in any circumstance. now as mentioned before, the mets had 29 blown saves and k-rod had 7. also, papelbon had 5 blown saves in 23 fewer SVO than k-rod and i can be mistaken but i believe he had a higher ERA as well. k-rod gets the job done just fine. again, im not saying k-rod is a must have but it sure would be nice if we can get him for 4/50

stupid me haha street would be the setup, my bad