Dodgers, Yanks Did Not Resume Cano Discussions

Tim, do you think this discussion will ever end? if so, will it end in a deal (who would be involved) or empty words?

They LIKE Melky Cabrera?

Maybe when he isn't playing baseball...

*spots obviously

Why would the Dodgers trade Kemp for THAT?! The Yankees must be licking their chops right now in anticipation of their theft. Please Ned, do not give Kemp away!

This will get evryone fired-up with a slew of crazy posts.

tehasguard - It is weird,right? It does seem like if either team did that deal they would have to do something else after it. of course, that could be the reason things are slow to form...teams are lining up multiple moves.

As a Giants fan, I really hope the Dodgers trade Matt Kemp and/or a young stud pitcher to the Yankees for Cano and/or Cabrera. I'd especially love to see Matt Kemp go to the Yankees as I own him in a keeper fantasy league.

My personal biases aside, I'm not sure even "Agent" Ned Coletti is dumb enough to do a trade like that.

Not to say that Cano isn't very good, but after the season he just had, Cano's value is as low as it has ever been. On the other hand, he's still only 26, so perhaps a change of scenery and teaming back up with Torre will do him some good.

But, he still isn't worth Matt Kemp straight up.

Of course the Yanks should do it, JayMac.

It isn't that easy though, I doubt very highly a one for one swap would even be considered.

Also, I think if the Yanks do move Cano, it will be to pursue Orlando Hudson as their second baseman. Maybe they get in on Furcal, but in that case, I could see him shifting to second as opposed to Jeter.

Both he and Hudson are injury risks though, and I wouldn't want to see them commit any more than three years to either player.

This is why I hate Ned Colletti. He hasn't made one good trade since he's been the GM. He has continually traded away players of value for steaming piles of crap. I have no problem with him signing Juan Pierre, Jason Schmidt and Andruw Jones. All those things did was cost money (especially this season when Torre realized Kemp and Ethier were better than Pierre or Jones). But trading away players is what is dooming the Dodgers. We receive Casey Blake, Julio Lugo, Jae Seo, Danys Baez, Wilson Betemit, and a slew of other crap players. And we give up players with potential, players with high trade value. This very reason is why I feared Ned remaining the GM. He's not looking to trade Juan Pierre. He's looking into deals where Matt Kemp would be traded. Awesome. The Dodgers will suck until Logan While becomes the GM.

How silly all you Kemp lovers are.

Compare Cano over the last 3 years to Kemp over the last 3 years.

Cano measures up to be a better player.

You folks are only remembering last year.

The two years before that Cano was the premier 2nd Baseman in the AL.

"probably insist on Chamberlain instead of Hughes"

Apparently, it isn't just the Yankee fans who need to be realistic. Chamberlain straight up is worth a lot more than Kemp.

"But, he still isn't worth Matt Kemp straight up."

Really? Remember, it is only a good trade if both sides hurt. Kemp has an extra tool on Cano; the base running, but Robi plays plus defense at a relatively offensive challenged position. You're putting too much weight on a bad (.150avg) April and babip.

Cano', McAllister/IPK/Betances, mCab, ? || Kemp, Kershaw/Pitcher, ?.

although Betances is a Brooklyn boy and he hurt his draft status by saying only yankees out of high school, meaning I don't want to give him up

Well, Ned has yet to sign a CF this offseason, thus the "interest" in Melky.

If the Dodgers are going to commit big money to a second baseman (Cano is guaranteed 3/29 through 2011), why not pursue Orlando Hudson or a 3B (DeWitt to 2B) and keep a potential superstar in Kemp?

AND the Yankees want pitching added? Hilarious.

"Robi plays plus defense at a relatively offensive challenged position."

Cano is a below average defender. EVERY metric says so.

Hey DodgersBruin, as long as we're talking about BABIP, lets not forget to mention Kemp's.

2006- .340
2007- .417
2008- .363

And Cano's contract is rather affordable considering the going rate these days for a player of his caliber and position.

Colletti does add one CF that will not help the Dodgers each year that he looks to replace the next year...

2007: Pierre

2008: Jones

2009: Melky Cabrera

"Cano & Hughes for Kemp is close to fair. Not sure that I would do it if I were the Dodgers but I'd at least consider it anyway. probably insist on Chamberlain instead of Hughes."

And people like to laugh at Yankee fans trade ideas...

The Dodgers fans need to realize that the Yankees really like Cano, and the Dodgers are the ones trying to make a trade happen. The Yankees aren't going to trade him unless they're blown away by an offer.

RWS,

BABIP = LD% + .12

Cano: LD% expected BABIP actual BABIP

2006 19.9% .319 .363
2007 16.9% .289 .331
2008 19.4% .314 .286

Kemp:
2006 24.3% .363 .340
2007 17.5% .295 .417
2008 23.0% .350 .363

So what does this show? Cano in 2006 and 2007 was extremely lucky. And was unlucky in 2008. He's not as bad as he was last season. But Kemp is about in line with his production. He was WAY over his head in 2007, but pretty close in 2006 and 2008.

And as for Cano's "rather affordable" contract for a player of his caliber, well, we know what the going rate is for a below average defender with a .305 OBP... it's called Juan Pierre and his $10M per season. So I guess Cano at 3/$27M is slightly below market value for a player of his caliber and position.

"if it was cano for kemp straight up it would be a fair deal, but i still wouldnt do it"

I can't believe Yankee fans. It really is true that common sense isn't so common. Cano is NOT better than Kemp. Kemp is younger than Cano. Kemp can steal bases. Kemp plays above average defense. Kemp has only been playing baseball since he was 17. Kemp's ceiling is a Superstar. And Kemp is making close to league minimum.
Cano can't steal bases and is a bad base runner. Cano plays below average defense. Cano is at or near his ceiling. And Cano makes $27M over the next 3 seasons.

Oh, and Kemp had a .340 OBP vs. Cano's .305 OBP. Please, Yankee fans, PLEASE tell me where Cano is better than Kemp.
Is it the present? Is it the future? Or is it only the 2006 season?

Line Drive % tells how hard a ball was hit. Cano's LD% for his career is 19.1%. Juan Pierre's LD% for his career is 21.8%.

So in fact, Cano is LESS of a line drive gap to gap hitter than Pierre is.

Matt Kemp Scouting Report:
"Most Major League scouts see him as a 30 HR 30 steal guy with MVP and All Star potential. A player to keep your eye on. "

Hmm, looks like the scouts overvalue Kemp too. 30-30 with MVP and All Star potential... sounds a lot like Grady Sizemore, doesn't it? Is he a superstar?

Robinson Cano scouting report: "Has one of the best left-handed swings in the game, with tremendously quick hands. Eats fastballs alive and mauls right-handed pitching. Boasts a good arm. All star second baseman with MVP potential"

you mad?

Yankee fans, try all you want to defend Cano, but if some bullsh** trade were to happen, and Kemp was your CF next year, you would be saying every word that we are.

How about we just keep Cano. Because Cano is one of the best second basemen in the game. And because he had one subpar year we should not give up on him.

Wow. Whatever scout compared Cano to Soriano MUST have been talking about defensively because they aren't even CLOSE offensively. Soriano's HR total his first 6 years: 18, 39, 38, 28, 36, 46.
Most HRs Cano has hit in a season: 19.

Hey Steveo26, I think you need to read things a bit closer.

I'll enlighten you in case you missed my first post on this topic:

As a Yankees fan, I don't think Cano is nearly enough for a player of Kemp's caliber.

I think that would be highway robbery if it happens.

Posted by: RWS | December 08, 2008 at 12:09 PM

If you don't like Polanco, then Brandon Phillips can be my #6.

Dan Uggla? Really?...

As much as I like getting Matt Kemp, I think Cano has so much promise. Dodgers fans think Kemp has promise to so... Lets not trade!

Even Rickie Weeks was more productive than Cano in 2008...Kelly Johnson...

I think I speak for all Dodgers fans when I say that this offseason has been an incredibly frustrating winter so far. First, we have probably the most inept GM in the league, although Ed Wade might give him some competition. Second, our owners are telling us how cheap they're going to be. Now, the only rumors we hear about are about trades for overvalued middle infielders.

This move, if it were to happen, would be classic Dodgers GM folly. Sell your potential superstar, who's playing for league minimum, for an established solid but not spectacular player. Oh, and Melky's garbage. Might as well have JP or Repko out there in CF.

I can only take solace in knowing that the Giants are throwing millions at washed up Edgar Renteria because he's supposedly better in the NL (no, he's just older than he was when he played for the Cards) and that Logan White will hopefully be GM next season.

"dan uggla is not better than robinson cano"

Dan Uggla OBP: .360
Dan Uggla HR: 32
Dan Uggla SLG: .514

Cano OBP: .305
Cano HR: 14
Cano SLG: .410

Oh, and Uggla plays in a larger ballpark than Cano.

As for you listing 8 CFs better than Kemp this season, congrats? I never said there weren't 8 CFs better than Kemp this season. I said Kemp is 1. better than Cano, 2. A Superstar in the making, and 3. A better value than Cano.

And yes, OPS DOES make a better player, especially when Cano offers NEGATIVE value defensively.
But okay, if OPS doesn't make you a better player, what does? Getting on base a lot? Cano doesn't do that. Hitting for lots of power? Cano doesn't do that. Stealing lots of bases? Cano doesn't do that. Playing Gold Glove defense? Cano doesn't do that. Get paid a lot of money? Cano DOES do that. Well, over the next 3 years at least.

vtadave if you learned to read you could see that i said 2008

Vtadave

Cano in his worst year had a better batting average and fielding percentage than Uggla. Uggla also struck out 2 and 1/2 times more

RWS: I stand corrected I did miss your first post I should not have addressed the comment to you.

Hawkeyes12990: what criteria would make a 2B better than Cano? OPS and OPS+ are good numbers to look at, how about runs created? Cano finished 11th in RC and 15th in Runs created per game. Vorp? Cano finished 32!!!! now that does look low to me but its out there. Win Shares? he ranked in a tie for 17th place with 5 other players none of whom played more than 120 games. Also Cano ranked as the worst 2nd baseman in the Fielding Bible this past year (Kinsler was 2nd worst but his bat was much better.)

Col!n -
Batting average and strikeouts are meaningless. Uggla got on base 36% of his ABs. Cano only 30%. Uggla also hit more than twice as many HRs as Cano. And the Marlins' stadium is slightly larger than Yankee Stadium.
Also, fielding percentage doesn't tell how good a fielder is. But no one has argued that Uggla is a defensive wiz. He's just an amazing hitter.

So exactly where is Kemps power again? And dodger fans, is he really a CF or more of a Corner guy.

He is not Albert Pujols or even Carlos Beltran.

"ivdown just said there were 25 other 2b better than cano

congratulations on the stupidest assessment of major league baseball talent ever"

According to things like VORP and Win Shares ivdown is pretty right on the mark. I really don't understand why you just based it on this past season, that wasn't gonna go in Cano's favor any way you looked at it. If you said over the future than yes Cano is a better option than the Ronnie Belliard or Kaz Matsui but you asked about this year and those guys were just as productive as Cano in 40+ less games. Even if your question was what 2B would you take over the next 3 years, Utley, Pedroia, Roberts, Phillips are all there offensively and defensively above Cano, Kinsler and Uggla are bad defensively but so is Cano and their bats are far supierior. Kendrick also would be someone I'd take over Cano for the next 3 years.

18 HR in his age 23 season would suggest the power is there just still developing

It seems like every off-season, Rosenthal stubbornly prints this Cano to the Dodgers rumor...

Ivdown, you don't have to pick one season. He's not the best (as in '06), but there aren't 25 2B worse than him (as in '08). Relax psycho.

Metzfan,

It was Hawkeye that told us to only look at the 2008 season. Read the thread before you post erroneously and make yourself look dumb.

Lol at this rumor still.

LOL....all this for a made up rumor. Kenny R strikes again.

I swear he makes up at least 85% of his "rumors"

And glad to see that Rosenthal is making things up. Colletti says he hasn't talked to the Yankees. Rosenthal is getting less credible by the minute. I swear he makes up rumors that he wants to see happen so he can release another column.

"MLB.com's Ken Gurnick talked to Ned Colletti, who said he hasn't talked to the Yankees yet."

"According to Ken Rosenthal, the Dodgers and Yankees have resumed their discussions.."

Again, Rosenthal making things up as he goes along. When are people going to quit taking what this buffoon has to say seriously?

Hawkeye...wow man. You just cannot accept reality, can you?

Do you want to show me who Cano was better than in 06 and why?

im done arguing but ty

Geez, everyone calm down.

"Im refering to 08, jacka**.

Sorry, im going to evaluate Cano only by 2006. Going by that logic, Andruw Jones is the best center fielder in baseball! The Dodgers are lucky to have him on their roster."

That is what Ivdown said. You can't just look at one season and jump to conclusions. in '06, Cano was unbelievable. In '08, he was horrible. That doesn't mean Cano is horrible. He's still one of the ten best offensive second basemen in the game. Relax.

Vlad Guerrero gets on base 39% of the time for his career. Vlad has a 147 OPS+ for his career. Vlad's WORST season he had 400 ABs was a 130 OPS+, meaning he was 30% better than league average. Vlad also has some power.
And by the way, Vlad walked 51 times last season in 600 plate appearances. Twice as good as Cano's 26 walks in 634 plate appearances. And Cano's BEST season wasn't even to the level of Vlad's WORST. Please NEVER compare the two again.

"I think that some of you Dodger fans are going to need some blood pressure medication to make it through this week if you are going to get this upset over a stupid one line rumor during the winter meetings.

Perhaps you could just chill for a day or two and see what actually happens. Perhaps it is totally wrong. Perhaps there are other players involved. Perhaps there is a 3rd team or another move in mind.

Seriously, dial it down a bit."

It's not the possible trade that upsets the Dodger fans. We all know Colletti is dumb enough to make this trade. It's the Yankee fans who INSIST that Cano is more valuable than Kemp despite performance, salary and projections of the two players. And then Yankee fans that claim that Cano was awesome last year despite the statistics.
It's the refusal to accept reality. Cubs fans and Yankee fans tend to act the same. And both are the loudest about how GREAT their players/ prospects are. If you're going to keep talking, I'll just keep citing statistics to prove otherwise.

"i think the only reasonable trade that could happen between these two clubs is this

cano + melky + kennedy/or another pitching prospect

for kemp and maybe kershaw but it still maybe be a little unbalanced but at least its not straight up 1 for 1"
Kemp = 23, Kershaw = 20. Kemp projects to be an MVP Candidate, 30-30 player, All Star. Kershaw projects to be a #1 Ace, Cy Young winner.
Why would they trade those two for a 2B making $27M over the next 3 years, a #5/AAAA pitcher and a AAAA OF?

There isn't a player the Dodgers would trade Kershaw for straight up. He was a league average major leaguer at 20 last season. And oh by the way, in case you didn't know, our owner is cheap. And Kershaw costs league minimum.