Edgar Renteria Signs With Giants

The San Francisco youth movement begins!

So that report out of NY was correct after all.

What's the problem with signing Renteria for two years?

Absolutely nothing fresh, as long as it doesn't stop them from signing C.C., locking up Timmy, and being able to pay whatever bat they trade Sanchez for. It's a 2 year deal. Doesn't affect the youth movement whatsoever. Burriss is not ready.

Too much money, but at least it won't cripple them since it's only 2 years. Renteria is a pretty good SS but he's not worth 9.5 million per year. Still, it won't destroy the Giants.

I'm really getting nervous that Orlando Cabrera will accept arbitration from the Sox.

Its not bad. They probably paid a little more per year to only give him 2 years, which for the Giants makes sense, so his contract does not hold them back when the youth is ready.

If you take out his two years in the AL, he has a solid bat. Seems like it was worth a shot to see if he can bounce back in the NL again.

Renteria is a decent signing, I think he will make a slight jump from the year he had last season but not by much.

Giants still need a run producer.

Agreed it's overpaying, but Sabean has a long history of that so, it wasn't any surprise.

Considering that they are still in on CC or are rumored to be as recently as last night, this must not effect that. Now that the Giants have a SS and 2 RP in place I think CC is going to be a done deal within a week.

I'd love to here some speculation on what they might get for Sanchez, Alderson and Burris.

we have two randy winns..

RW .288 .347 .425
ER .290 .347 .405

yipeee

"It is not a horrible move at all. A little pricey, but the years are good."

Totally agree. This really isn't a terrible deal. Renteria may not be the masher they need, but he should be able to bounce back at least somewhat in the NL next season, and in that case he's still a good offensive player at shortstop. Considering that their alternative was essentially Burriss, and it seems like they want to contend in 2009, it really isn't a bad move. Especially considering it's only for two seasons. This isn't exactly a huge risk.

It's not like you guys just signed Barry Zito for 7/126 or Aaron Rowand for 5/60. Ohh wait.

"I'm really getting nervous that Orlando Cabrera will accept arbitration from the Sox."

I feel the same way, but I'm not so worried. Obviously OC won't be back in Chicago next season, Ozzie didn't like him too much and it seemed like he really didn't fit into that clubhouse, sorta like Swish.

The thing is that even if Cabrera accepted, I would expect it to be fairly easy to move him, and we might even be able to get some talent out of it. Cabrera would probably make around $8-10M in arbitration, and even though he's not worth that, he's still one of the better shortstops available. He should be able to post a .280/.330/.380 line with some steals and good defense.

Considering that Edgar Renteria just got 2/18.5, I would expect some team to be very willing to add Cabrera at 1/9.

2 yrs Renteria > 4 yrs Furcal

This a decent signing. Not great, not horrible. Giants haters are completely overreacting.

Renteria upgrade over Vizquel
Affeldt upgrade over Walker
Howry upgrade over Hennessey

Giants are off to a nice start. We'll see after the meetings if a trade for Cantu or signing of CC is made. If they sign CC and trade Cain for Fielder, Giants have a very decent team.

If the Giants can now sign Burrell to a 2 year deal, it makes the Giants a much better team, and remember, the NL West really sucks, and the Dodgers, winners of the NL West by winning a MERE 86 games, have 7 Free Agent holes to fill plus the broken leg of Billingsley.. Rockies traded Holliday, they didn't get better, and the Padres traded Greene and most likely Peavy soon... so the ONLY club in the NL West that looks better in 2009 than 2008 IS the Giants!

btw, I'm a Phillies die-hard fan, so this is a totally UNBIASED Post!

So that puts Furcal at 4/$64M??

Over/under??

I'll take the push.

The market is staring to move, slowly but its moving. Niceeeee.

I don't see the Giants trading Molina or Winn at this point. It looks like Sabean has chosen to ramp it up now.

I know he and Renteria had similar lines last year, but I don't think anyone would take Gonzalez over Renteria at the plate.

Aaron, I am not a Giant fan at all, but supposedly the Giants would offer more than the Brewers but less than the Yankees. I think they have a decent enough shot if they are going over the 100 million dollar mark.
He likes the NL, likes to bat and supposedly loves the west coast, and his wife loves San Fran.

Aaron, Who says the Giants haven't decided to go with a 95 or 100 million dollar payroll. Their new managing partner Bill Neukom basically said he was open to different roster structures and that the payroll number could go up if it made sense.

They can trade off Cain when Bumgarner is ready, they have Posey, Villalona, Noonan, all 2-3 years out. They should be able to keep the payroll around 95 million by doing something they haven't done since the mid 80's, replenish position players from within rather than through FA.

And who says he has to turn down 40 million, maybe it will only be 20. And I wont be surprised when the Giants finish closer to the top of their division than the Yankees do.

And with a rotation of Lincecum, CC, Cain in the post season, all they have to do is win the west to have a shot.

This deal makes Lugo look far more desirable in any trade in which the Red Sox subsidized a portion of his contract. Lugo makes $18M over 2009-2010, and it looks like his 2011 option won't vest.

Good call on the Lugo thing. His contract is suddenly less disturbing when compared to what Renteria will get and what Furcal will likely sign for.

The problem still is, however, that Lugo is horrible. Renteria may have regressed both offensively and defensively, but he is still far superior to Lugo.

I don't think they are all Giants fans.

But as a Giant fan he has done some dumb stuff. But I think over the past year he's done a pretty good job. They were very aggressive with giving their minor leaguers big league looks and found some keepers in Sandoval, Burris, Lewis, Wilson, Romo, and maybe Hinshaw. Those guys will all be contributors this year. That's a remarkable success IMO. Because he found that many pieces last year I think he has the guts to make a splash right now, as he sees the competition in Colorado, SD, AZ, and LA getting thinner.

He's getting hammered because he is not following the typical, fire sale-youth investment-youth development-Free agent splash-five year cycle, that we have seen from SD, FLA, CLE, and others inthe past ten years.

He's getting hammered for being innovative and trying to turnaround the franchise in a two year span rather than 5 or 6. Billy Beane gets praised for the same things Sabean is getting criticized for because he takes a different approach.

I keep reading that this signing is not horrible but they overpaid and now there is no way they will be able to sign CC now. Do you guys not realize that the Giants are one of the highest grossing teams in the major leagues (along with the Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, and a few others)???

There is a reason they were able to give Zito 7 years/$126 million, because they HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY TO SPEND ON PAYROLL. They just haven't the last few years because they knew they weren't serious playoff contenders (no reason to spend tons of money if your not gonna WIN)?

Also just because they signed Renteria doesn't mean they have given up on the youth movement or Burriss. Burriss will now be switched to 2B (which is his natural position)! Also the plan is still to have Pablo Sandavol start the majority of the time at 1st base, unless they sign Mark Tex. Fred Lewis is still the starting LFer, and Schierholtz is still consider Randy Winn's replacement in RF (either by midseason or next season since Winn is a FA in 2010).

The youth movement is still in full effect (but the focus on youth applies more on drafting both pitchers and position players that will be apart of the ML roster in the future), but the Giants know they could possible win the division this season and they are trying to fill all their holes with better players than they already have.

not a bad deal overall. The Giants weren't willing to hand over the starting SS job to Burriss quite yet. The deal, while a little pricey, is short and exactly the type of deal the team should be making, but I'm a fan of the shorter term/more money deals.

The Giants have $28M coming off the books after 2009 (Molina, Winn, Lowry, Roberts, Howry) and could back load a deal for CC or Pat Burrell just a bit and not raise payroll significantly. Right now, I have the 2009 25-man roster at about $80 million (which would increase depending on raises), so they're still well below their usual $90-95 million level.

"Everyone is starting to piss me off by saying shi.t against Sabean all the time. Obviously he's not the best GM but you guys are ridiculous. If he sits on his hands, you complain, if he signs someone you complain, if he trades someone you complain. What do you expect, to trade Sanchez straight up for Pujols?? There is no such thing as a perfect deal, you have to remember that its not just the Giants making decisions to benefit them, every team wants the best deal possible. I know if the Giants were to sign Furcal instead you would've said why give an oft injured player 4 years $45+ million. But also, if he signs no one, you call him an idio t and say he isn't doing his job.

Come one guys, we're all Giants fans just cut him some slack."

Very well put. The Sabean-haters need to relax.

MattyMets,

This is what happens to losing teams, they are short sighted.

In 2007, my team, the Cincinnati Reds had a losing season and the BUll Pen stunk. What did they do? they went out and overpaid for Francisco Cordero to be their Closer. Nevermind, that the Closer wasn't the problem but it was the guys who pitched in the seventh and eighth Innings.

So what happens in 2008? The Bull Pen's numbers are better and Cordero gets all the praise for it.

What a lot of people don't realize is that Cordero put up basically the same numbers in 2008 that David Weathers did as Closer in 2007. The only difference is that Cordero was paid at least twice as much as Weathers was.

What made the Reds Bull Pen better in 2008, as compared to 2007, was that they had Jeremy Affeldt and Mike Lincoln coming in the seventh and eighth Innings instead of Mike Stanton, Todd Coffey and Gary Majewski.

Now, what happened to the Reds after they overpaid for Cordero in a year where there were no Closers? They won two more Games than they did in 2007 but still finished with a losing record.

If the Reds Front Office had just looked out to the 2008 crop of Free Agents, they would have seen that there would be more Closers available to choose form and they wouldn't have had to overpay for one. They could have kept Weathers as Closer and still used Affeldt and Lincoln as set up men. THen, they could have gone shopping for a Closer this year.

In a down economy, teams look like they are going to be overpaying for Short Stops and Catchers this year.

Why?

If you are NOT going to be in contention, why overpay for something this year that you could very well get a better deal on next year when there are either more available or better quality?

Does the Giants overpayng for Renteria all of a sudden make them Play Off contenders? I don't think so.

This is a good deal for the Giants for the reasons most of you have mentioned, namely because overpaying Renteria about $2-3 million over two years to hit nearly .300 from the SS position is better than repeating past mistakes and taking a huge risk by overcommitting 3/$39 million or 4/$48 million to Furcal. To those of you who suggest that the Giants could have traded for a SS, please see the efforts with the Brewers for JJ Hardy. It takes two teams for a trade, and Sabean wasn't going to risk valuable trading chips on the SS position (unless he found a match for someone really worthy like Hardy) when he has those same chips still available now for a power bat or two. Plus, again, Renteria didn't cost a pick.

Every move he's made so far this offseason has been far ahead of the moves he's made in the past several years, and as hiphopjunkie says, Sabean and Neukom still have cash to play with for CC and a bat or two. And there will be over $20 million in salary coming off the books after this year, some of it to be offset by the new contract for Lincecum.

Don't rush to judge this move until we see what Sabean does to get a bat.

I totally disagree with your post.

Ishikawa and Bowker are not ML 1B.

That lineup is not going to produce runs as it is now or in three years from now. The way I see it the Giants need to get to the post season by 2010, so they can return in 2011 to win a WS in Cain's last year under contract. I don't get what people like you expect to happen in the next three years without adding pieces. Makes no sense. Sure it works for the Brewers when they have 10 years of top 5 picks stocking their the farm, but not a single one of the guys on the lineup you list will ever be a lineup fulcrum. They are all complementary at best. That's good to have, but it wont get you to the WS unless you ad some players along the way and that can't be done in one offseason it has to happen little by little.

baseballjunkie343,

I have only one question for you, who is the better Catcher, Bengie Molina or Gerald Laird?

Why I ask is because Bailey has been rumored to be on the trading block and the main players on the other team have been said to be Jermaine Dye or Gerald Laird.

Laird is 29 and has only been a part time or platoon Catcher his entire six year career.

Molina fits exactly what the Reds need. A starting Catcher who can both hit and field. None of which can be said of the Reds recent Catchers.

On Offense, Molina has a decent Batting Average, can hit against both Left Handed and Right Handed Pitching, has some power and can still drive in Runs.

Since Cincinnati plays in a park which is more friendly to hitters, I can imagine Molina might be able to hit 20 Home Runs in a season there if he can hit 16 with the Giants. This would give the Reds some pop from a Right Handed batter that they are looking for.

Molina has won two Gold Gloves in has career and is still decent at catching balls, throwing runners out and calling a Game. He has also been on a World Series winning team so he knows what it takes to get to the Play Offs and be successful.

Finally and, in my opinion, most importantly, Molina speaks Spanish.

With the Reds having two young Starting Pitchers they are counting on (Volquez and Cueto) and Francisco Cordero as their Clsoer, it would be REALLY nice for them to have a veteran Catcher who speaks Spanish.

This way, it would be easier for them to go over scouting reports and pre Game strategy. It would also help them when they get into trouble during a Gmae.

As it is now, if Volquez and/or Cueto get into trouble during a Game, Reds Pitching Coach Dick Pole waddles out to the mound and has to have Edwin Encarnacion try and translate what he is saying.

I can just imagine how hard that is when trying to convey something. Also, I worry about what happens if EE is traded. Who are the Reds going to have translate then? Are they going to have Cordero run in from th Bull Pen to translate and then run back?

No, just because Molina is 34, slow and is set to make $6 million in 2009, I would not hold that against him. I especially sya this if what he brings to the Reds would be more than just Offense and Defense.

If he could come in and teach Volquez an Cueto some things about winning and how to go about preparing for Games, then he would be more than worth trading Bailey for.

Look, I see alot of opinions on here from people who either casually watch the Giants, or are admittedly fans of other teams. Let me tell you from the stand point of an avid follower, and someone who bothers to go watch the team in Spring Training, follows the Minor League farm clubs, and pays attention to the pay-roll, this deal is not the over-pay it appears to be.

First off, getting a 33 year old player to sign a 2 year deal is VERY difficult. The Giants evaluated the progress of their prospects and determined they wanted to commit to no more then 2 seasons of anyone. Then they went out and found who the best person they could get for 2 years would be. Originally it looked like Furcal might fit, but if he is going to get a 4 year from someone else, the Giants would have had to over-pay grossly for an oft injured player to sign him for 2 years. Renteria hits well in the NL and gives the Giants time until his large pay-roll figure can be replaced by a minimum salary rookie. You can also bet that the Cardinals were going to be involved in the Renteria deal had the Giants not given up more money per season. However, stop thinking all the Renteria money is coming directly out of this year’s pay-roll. Last year the Giants had tons of money come off the books. They only spent a portion of it when they brought in Rowand. Had they been in contention late, they had the ok to bring in more money last season. Don’t think for a moment that these teams don’t have budgets set for pay-roll, and (if the ownership is committed to winning) that money can’t roll over to the next year. More money came off this season, and even more is scheduled after that. Some of that money will need to go to Lincecum and Cain, should they not trade him (I hope they don’t), but some of that money will also come from the fact that Posey will replace Molina, Nate will replace Winn, etc. If the young players produce as hoped, the Giants payroll will drop each season as players are replaced.

So now that we established the fact that 1) Renteria’s deal was a stop gap move designed to buy time while still being competitive, and 2) the Giants are in a position to increase their pay-roll, it is conceivable that the Giants will continue to be players in the up coming Free Agent chase.

The thing to remember is that they Giants have not hurt their youth movements with any of these deals. The Giants like Manny at 2nd. They feel he can be a high average, plus defender at the position, i.e. Orlando Hudson. Sandoval will see time at 3rd, 1st, and C, depending on what moves they make from here on out. Velez becomes your super-sub, and Frandsen will most likely get a chance to try a little 3rd, 2nd, and 1st, if he makes it at all. The outfield still needs a bat, and the Fred Lewis injury is a concern. 1B is a natural fit for a bat since the 18 year old Villalona is still a few years away.

The Pen is getting deeper, and they Giants farm system is loaded with arms that could flash in the pen, much like Price did for the D-Rays, if the Giants can contend. I could see the Giants still going short term for Lowe if he would take it, moving a young arm, and perhaps making a Free Agent splash. If they did, they would be giving themselves a chance to contend in a weak division, maintaining their talented farm system, and still staying well within their potential pay-roll budget that could easily support 120 million a years, especially if you take the new ownerships word that the Zito contract will not effect future moves.

"Everyone is starting to piss me off by saying shi.t against Sabean all the time. Obviously he's not the best GM but you guys are ridiculous. If he sits on his hands, you complain, if he signs someone you complain, if he trades someone you complain. What do you expect, to trade Sanchez straight up for Pujols?? There is no such thing as a perfect deal, you have to remember that its not just the Giants making decisions to benefit them, every team wants the best deal possible. I know if the Giants were to sign Furcal instead you would've said why give an oft injured player 4 years $45+ million. But also, if he signs no one, you call him an idio t and say he isn't doing his job.

Come one guys, we're all Giants fans just cut him some slack."

"Very well put. The Sabean-haters need to relax."

Now that Bavasi is out, he's far and away the worst GM in baseball. The list of signings and trades he's made is astounding. He would not have a job if he hadn't had Bonds.

"Now that Bavasi is out, he's far and away the worst GM in baseball. The list of signings and trades he's made is astounding. He would not have a job if he hadn't had Bonds."

I think Ned Colletti would have something to say about that.

Khalil Greene makes $6.5 million. If you're going to employ a veteran, you're not going to get cheaper than that. So dropping $8.5 on a guy who batted .330 the last time through the NL, just two years ago, ain't all bad. And really, why not have depth, for two years, while the young guys develop. I'm all for letting E-Burriss play, but shift him over to second maybe, at least for now, let Frandsen fill the role Aurillia filled last year, allowing Sandoval to move between third and catcher. You still have maybe Ishikawa at first, hopefully Ishikawa at least, and Velez/Frandsen can be bats on the bench. It's two years. Why not compete if it's not going to kill the long-term evolution of this club?

Cubbyfan,

"You could sign a comparable player or trade for one for much cheaper than what he got."

Since I live in the real world where it takes more then you saying the words to make it true, I will ask you to name two.

And in response to your question... perhaps you should have read the entire post since the rest explained why it was NOT an over pay. Two years at 18 is less then Three years at 25 or 4 years at 27 no matter how you slice it. He is off the books in two years, no matter how much he makes now.

I personally think Sabean gets a bad rap. There have been a few bad signings, but he was definitely handcuffed into the win-now mode while bonds was here. The pierzynski trade was bad, but at the time we needed a catcher and no one thought Nathan would become what he has. I have read about many gm's saying the same thing. He was underwhelming at best in a giants uniform. Bonser hasn't done anything and Liriano is a question mark. I don't think rowand was a bad signing at all. Aside from signing Zito, Dave Roberts and Benitez, everything else has been respectable, imo. And who knows, Zito could always rebound, but I'm not counting on it. I could hit an 84mph fastball.

"I'll give you one Escobar for Cain...

Posted by: bartendermlb | December 04, 2008 at 02:09 PM"

If it's Alcides, no thanks. Even if it's Yunel, you'd need to sweeten that pot a little.

sorry I'm talking about Yunel...and Cain shouldn't need more than that a mid-level bullpen arm at most...

Jaywest,

There are a few options. I think the rout Sabean is taking, which I believe is as follows:

1. Shore up the bullpen (check)
This was as big of a problem as the offense last year and considering the late season emmergence of Romo and HInshaw, this could be MUCH improved by adding a couple of guys which they have done.

2. Sign a SS (check)
I thought Burris would be fine here, and then that would leave Frandsen at 2B. I am not going to argue with Sabean on this one. He's got a much better eye than I do. Still moving Burris to 2B to platoon or compete with Frandsen is fine. And Frandsen could still get AB's at 3B and potentially OF (saw him make a great grab and throw for a DP back in 07)

3. Sign CC
I think the Giants have had this in mind. I think CC has told them he wants to come, and the rest is just figuring out numbers.

4. Trade for a bat.
Signing CC makes Sanchez and Alderson both expendable. Typically I would be dead against trading a guy like Alderson who at 19 was among the best pitchers in the Cal League. But Bumgarner is right there with Alderson, and with Zito, CC and hopefully Lincecum signed for and Cain good through 2011, we can sacrifice Alderson to get a bat in here.

I think Sabean should start with a Sanchez, Alderson package and see what that attracts, then throw someone else in like Burris, Scheirholtz to get a slightly better return.

THe mystery to me is I have no idea what that brings back. In a perfect world where Daybreak is the perfect orange hue and nights are black, they could land Fielder, but we know that wont happen without Cain, which I would hesitate to do, because then your rotation is merely good and not historically good. And even with Fielder the Giants would need a Lince, CC, Cain trio to ensure post season success.

So I am not sure who the last piece of the puzzle is. But if Sabean can land CC, and start digging for the right bat through a trade of Sanchez, Alderson +, this offseason would be a huge success.

The bat is going to be tough to come by. But I am not up for waiting the 4-5 years for Villalona to become a 35 HR guy if that even happens. And there really isn't anyone else in the system who remotely projects as a 30 HR threat.

That's one reason why a 3 year 75 million dollar Manny contract would be a good idea IMO. Now clearly unless the Giants are going to enter the Boston/Mets stratosphere of payroll that is nothing but a fantasy.

So I am happy with what they have done, then adding CC and looking for that bat over the next 18 months.

Even if they were to sign Burrel he alone does not provide enough offense to put them over the top. It's going to take at least one other guy

Yeah the Giants who just signed a SS should trade Matt Cain, who's undervalued, for a cheap young SS.

Go back to serving drinks.

Solid signing.

Renteria is going back to his original league the NL where he was a .330 hitter and a gold glover ...

Love the signing, just wish it was for the Twins.

Ok Jason I'll give you the benefit of the doubt Cain is better than what I'm giving him credit for but the idea of Prince Fielder for Cain is straight highway robbery for the Giants, they would have to give up more than that....as far as Escobar I've said repeatly he is going to be an upper Echelon never the best, not even in the top 2 in the nl east till reyes and ramirez are gone, but he is in almost everyway minus speed the excat mold of Renteria, down to his opposite field gap power...look at their numbers...My only concern is Escobar might end up being a injury liability hopefully he can clear my thoughts of that with a full 155-160 games this year...

I wouldn't call it highway robbery. You have to look at from more than just the talent for talent perspective. Cain is signed cheaply (relative to the market) thru 2011. That's three years for a true #2 starter (i don't think that statement is very far off the mark). While Fielder is going to start making some serious cash ($10 mil maybe?) in arbitration this year. So even if you think talent-wise, that Fielder is superior to Cain, the money and timeframe perspectives favor Cain, which, in my opinion, easily brings his value up to or even past Fielder's. And they were even throwing around Hardy AND Fielder for Cain earlier this year. While I concede that would be a coup for the Giants, it goes to show how much value Cain has on the market.

Correction, those were from Ages 20-23, both debuted at 20.

Maybe Cain is (will be) better than we think.

Posted by: freshbreaker | December 04, 2008 at 03:08 PM

Speak for yourself because I know Cain is much better then his current perceived value.

Matt Cain is John Smotlz 2.0

Green won't fall to #5.