Yankees Decline To Offer Arb To Pettitte, Abreu, Mussina

Interesting to see them decline arb on Pettitte. You can never have enough pitching, and Andy on a 1 yr deal I would think would be a smart investment. Would love to see him in the NL West and far, far away from having to face the Red Sox.

As for Abreu, can't fault them for declining there. They've got enough corner OF to let him walk without risking him accepting arb.

HAH.

This is ridiculous. What is Cashman doing? If either guy accepted it wouldn't have been a major crush on the books. Even if accepted they could trade them or someone else for some minor league talent. At least get SOMETHING out of them.

The Abreu decision comes as a HUGE surprise to me. Yanks fans can't be happy with that.

I couldn't be more dissapointed. I would love to hear Cashman's thinking behind this so I can be even more pissed off. On another note, I really hope the thought of Manny is thrown out of the equation soon. Even when he is half-assing it he can still put up decent numbers (Definately not worth the Money though) but he is a cancer that can destroy a team.

Can't wait for the Yank sympathizers to come in and tell us all how smart Cashman is.

I actually don't take issue with the decision outside of Abreu. The others were smart moves.

Looks like the upcoming recession is hurting even the Yanks! At least this means a few ridiculously inflated contracts this season.

Total shock on Abreu and also bodes somewhat on contracts forthcoming to position players this FA season perhaps?? Also, maybe the $$ budgeted to Abreu will be shoveled X2 to Tex now??

No surprise on Petite, now if the Sox will PLEASE not offer arbitration to Paul Byrd, like was written on the Globe earlier today..

I didn't understand Pettitte either. Especially when the Yankees NEED pitching.

Before anyone says fire Cash please keep in mind that it's not his money. The articles I read earlier today said that they had a meeting with all of the decision makers. Blaming Cash for this might be the same as killing the messenger. However, for the record I don't agree with the letting Pettitte or Abreu go w/o getting picks at all.

pettite would have accepted on the spot.

the cubs are going to sign abreu; they are replacing the ivy wall in rf with memory foam

pudge might have accepted and then demanded to play or be traded. that's a headache they didn't need.

"Probably because of all the B level (4-5 starting pitchers) available for much less than 10-15 million a year that will win 10-12 games."

Judging a pitcher by W-L record = fail

Garland, Perez, and Wolf will command multi-year deals.

Moose is retired.

That leaves Randy Johnson, and that's about it. The rest are major injury risks/red flag type guys.

Abreu wouldnt go near it even if it was memory foam...

"Abreu wouldnt go near it even if it was memory foam..."

Memory foam feels good. It's nice and soft.

"Mathew Leach is reporting that the Cards aren't offering arbitration to anyone."

WTF. WTF. WTF. I understand Izzy, Springer, etc., but Izturis? He's bound to be signed by other teams.

Didn't Petite make 16 million in 2008? is THAT worth taking a chance of offering arbitration to and him taking them up on it? Like you posted Melonis rex, RJ is available and his bad back risk is no worse than petite, His stuff is at least as good (if not superior) than petite's and will cost 1/4th of what petite's arbitration figure would be, even a Paul Byrd has the same stats/stuff as petite at this stage of his once outstanding career.

rex thinks izturis would bring compensation. that is funny.

I see where you're coming from bjguess, but if the Yanks had offered him arb and he accepted, the Yanks could've eaten a chunk of that salary to make his equity positive to other teams and received prospect(s) in return. But this way, they're risking him walking and getting nothing in return. I guess they valued the money more than the prospect they would've got in return for him, which does make some sense if they turn around and put that money towards CC and one of Burnett/Lowe/Sheets.

So I guess I'm saying I don't understand the move, unless they get 2 of those 4 pitchers I named earlier.

But I wouldn't say Andy only has 2 options. He can pitch for any team in baseball, he's just never given any indication HE's interested in any other options. I could see him expand his interest to include teams like the Cards, Phillies, Mets, Angels, and just about any contender outside of Boston.

"Can't wait for the Yank sympathizers to come in and tell us all how smart Cashman is.

I actually don't take issue with the decision outside of Abreu. The others were smart moves."

Agreed. Although I actually think Cash is a good GM, and an underrated one outside of NY especially. People look at the payroll and think anybody can do it. Not that this isn't fair, because it is, he certainly has a lot of resources to work with but I think he is a good eye for talent and would do relatively well in a smaller market, and without Hankenstein breathing down his neck. I agree though, that the only surprising part is declining arb on Bobby. He probably wants a multi-year deal, and even if he were to accept, there are worse things then having Bobby Abreu for one year at market value.

This Petite Arbitration discussion is the perfect topic with pros and cons on both sides and can certainly see why Cashman had problems with the decision.

RU shitting me? The yankees are idiots not offering arbitration to Abreu and Pettite. If these guys both declined and they got two starters they would still have a draft pick. way to ruin a offseason that was going well Cash.

Nice job Cashman. Now if he can bungle up the C.C. pursuit, NY's free agent season will be perfect.

"way to ruin an offseason that was going well Cash."

How in any way is the Yankees offseason going well. They offered C.C. 140 million dollars and he still doesnt want to pitch in NY. The Yankees arent even going to make an offer to Burnett because he wants 5 years, and Lowe has already said he wants to go to Boston.

I really don't get this at all. the only part I understand is Pettitte/Pudge. Those two were probably going to accept on spot.
Abreu was a 50-50 chance, and even if he did accept, he's a pretty good bat (better than Nady if you ask me) and would be worth the 16-18MM.
The one I REALLY don't get is Moose. The guy is RETIRED! I know that Clemens "retired" and then took arb and screwed us in '03, but Clemens and Moose are very different persons!
If we sign CC, and Lowe/Burnett/Sheets (possibly 2 of the 3) AND sign Tex to replace Abreu's bat in the line-up lets see that would be:
2 picks lost to CC
2 picks lost to Tex
2 picks lost to Burnett
2 picks lost to Sheets/Lowe
So we'll be looking at losing 8 picks while gaining none back!
This isn't looking too good as of now.....

I agree with a couple of the above posters, if Jim Hendry isn't all over a Bobby Abreu signing for the Cubs, I'd be shocked. They could use him much more than all the Jake Peavy talk.

Seriously, WTF was Cashman thinking? No way would Abreu turn down a 2-3 year deal from someone else, so that was two GUARANTEED sandwich picks for the Yanks. It sure seems awfully cavalier of Cashman to just piss those picks goodbye.

They're laughing in Boston, Tampa and Toronto right now.

you beat me to it reality check.

unless you count the Swisher trade and maybe Wang's rehab (he says grasping at straws)

I think I read somewhere that a free agent can't be traded w/o written consent until sometime in June the following year, so if the Yanks did sign Pettitte and then ended up with 6 starters they could not traded Pettite at all w/o him signing off on the deal, which I doubt he would do. All in all....they still should've offered him arbitration.

I hope the article is a mistake. As for Abreu I'm sure he would've declined. Sure he wants to be a Yankee but not if it meant losing a multi year deal which I'm sure he would've received elsewhere.

I wonder if this means there's something bigger brewing?

philsWSchamps,
yanks sold rasner to japan, but they do have sergio mitre.....

Well Red sox dynasty, ( lmao at the name)what about Clay Buchholz or Craig Hansen?

If your gonna blast Phil Hughes at age 22, then give me justification to not say the same exact thing about 24 year old Clay Buchholz? Hughes has been sharp once he got healthy including 2 Mlb starts. take away the one bad AFL start, and his ERA is 0.99 with more then a K per Inning.

But hey you are probably a bilnd homer and or a hypocrite..

It shocks me over and over again how fickle and ignorant some of these fans are...

Fire Cashman! burn him at the stake! HE UNDERSTANDS NOTHING ABOUT BASEBALL!!

c'mon.. don't be ridiculous.. you dont think the Yankees have felt the economic crush? I have trouble paying for gas, and you think they can go sign 2-3 major FA pitchers on an already bloated payroll, not to mention the hundred million we'll be sending to 'small-market teams' to pay for their playoff berths..

And not offering arb to Pettitte doesnt mean that we wont eventually sign him.. ugh..

I also think everyone is putting too much emphasis on draft picks. This isn't the NBA or NFL. 90% of first round picks never do anything of importance in the MLB.

you know what you're right. How about we just forget about the Tom Gordon experiment in Philly and you give us Joba and Kennedy (who you picked with the Phillies compensation picks.)

Sound fair???

Im sick of this draft picks dont matter crap. that was true in the 70s and 8-s but scouting has become MUCH more sophisticated. Draft picks matter. This abreu thing makes ZERO sense. Im at a total loss.
So now we lose the #3 hitter for nothing. Abreu is sure to get a 3 year deal now.
Man this makes no sense. Im shaking with rage.
I spend so much time defending cashman but this is inexcusable.
ARRRRRRRGHHHH

People should calm down. I'm pretty sure they had a good reason and Abreu really wanted to stay. If he accepted the Yanks would be able to go after Tex if they fail to sign CC.

Yes, they only lose one first round pick but then they would proceed to lose their 2nd round, 3rd round etc. It is interesting that people feel so strongly about the value of holding picks yet continue to demonstrate they do not understand how the compensation system works. Did you ever stop and think that maybe the people that actually understand these things (like a gm) are making a more informed decision than your knee-jerk fan reaction?

but thats what Im screaming. Now they should only sign one. This is a team supposedly attempting to get younger yet there is talk of signing all these free agents. So you end up picking in the 4th round with one pick for Cole in t he mid 30s
CC or Tex and that is it

philsWSchamps you named one instance where it has worked out (and kennedy really isn't much of an example since he has done squat so far). Like I said....90% or more of first round draft picks go on to do nothing in the MLB. All you have to do is look up the history of 1st round picks and you will see this. Even more look up the history of compensatory draft picks and you will find even less success. If a team has a high draft pick it probably means they are years away from contending and would be unwilling to sign an older right fielder who plays horrendous defense.

Yankee fans have been complaining that we can't buy championships but complain even more if we don't have an all star at every position. Haven't we learned our lesson that an all star team isn't necessarily a world series team?

Did you follow your own advice and look at the first round draft picks of years past? It does not appear so because you would see more than 3 players doing anything in mlb. So you argue that the lower you go in the draft the less chance of success you have in picking? While that might work in an attempt to devalue the sandwich picks it actually undermines your first point because it suggests 1st round picks are obviously your best chance.

Act. it is not fair. Joba was a Comp pick; You'd just get Kennedy.

FIrst let me say I think the Yanks shoulf have offered arb to both Abreu and Pettite.

Read this article below from The Post:

However, the Yankees have now become worried that the market is so stalled that Abreu just might accept their offer of arbitration with the idea of going back into free agency next offseason when the economy is better. Abreu made $16 million last year and had a strong enough season that he would not receive a paycut in the arbitration process. Thus, the Yanks might be looking at, say, a $17 million Bobby Abreu next year if he decided to accept arbitration.

That would force the Yanks to either pay him that amount and re-arrange their outfield with Johnny DamonJohnny Damon moving from left to center and Xavier Nady moving from right to left, or trade Damon or Nady, or trade Abreu, with the proviso that they would probably have to eat several million dollars to make that happen.

The Yanks were scheduled to have a late afternoon meeting before announcing a decision that is due by midnight tonight. There was still at least a slight lean toward offering Abreu the arbitration, but it was no longer a no-brainer.
______________

Has anyoned considered the possinility that the Yanks might still work out a deal with Abreu for more than 1 year at a reduced price? They can offer him a 2 year deal for $26 million, for an example, whereas if they offered him arbitration they would be forced to submitt an offer of a minimum of 20% of his 08 salary which works out to be a sum of 12.8 mil. However, Abreu would have to submit a bid no less than the 16 mil he made last year. So maybe Abreu is going to give the Yanks a hometown discount and willing to take less per year w/ a 2 year agreement.

Question? If a player accepts an offer of arbitration but the team and the player negotiate a contract prior to the case going to "the table" then are there any "financial minimums" that the contract has to be worth? Would the dollars have to fall somewhere between the 20% +/- amount of his 08 salary?

YanksFanSince78,

no personal jabs here. Most of you Yankees fans crow though about the 85 million or so you have to spend but yet they won't overspend a little on Pettite? Especially since he's OK with one year contracts and you only have 1-2 pitchers you can truly count on. You yourself agreed that they should have offered arbitration to both him and Abreu.

You also asked "WHy would anyone assume that the best pitcher on the market would only get offers from 2 teams?"

Are you really delirious to think there are any teams other than the Yanks or Angels that can really afford CC? Don't give me that Brewers crap because they aren't even close to you and their GM has admitted that.

And you added an extra IF by the way.

And my comments are just fine, IMO, thanks.

philsws:

Jeez louise. You said quote: "Right now you have 1 or 2 max you can count on, one that won't sign the richest FA contract offered in history and no other sure bets".

All I said was that CC not jumping to sign the offer shouldn't be seen as his unwillingness to sign with the Yanks. Why should he rush? According to reports he's only received 2 offers (Brews and Yanks). Obviously it's to his benefit to see if any other teams step up (Angels, DOdgers, Giants) either to satisfy his "preceived" preference for a West coast team to bid on him or to maybe cause the Yanks to spike their offer up a little. I know that as a die hard Yanks fan I never expected him to sign two week after the free agent signing period began just becasue the Yanks wanted him to sign.

Everyone that says the Yanks are "feeling the crunch", let me remind you that they just finished closing one stadium and selling off as many pieces as they owned and plan to open a new stadium. Not to mention the award-winning TV station, billion dollar brand and new hospitality company with the Cowboys.

They may not be able to buy golden seats for the bleachers, but don't think that a "money crunch" is going to be responsible for any of their baseball decisions.

There is no lack of interest in Abreu, not enough anyway to prevent him from pretty easily getting a multiyear deal right now. Pudge is on the decline and wants a starting job. He knows he would never get a chance in NY with Posada and Molina active. Andy would never go where he isn't wanted. The Yanks aren't feeling an economy crunch and no team that would seriously look at Bobby Abreu or Pudge anyway would really approach them from a different standpoint. This was a tactical decision; a poor tactical decision.

I also found this @ the following link:

http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_baseball_arbitration_works

________
The Arbitration Procedure and the Arbitration Hearing
Arbitration works as follows: In January, the player and the club each submit a salary figure to a three-person panel of professional arbitrators. hearings are conducted between the 1st and 20th day of February.

At the hearing, each party has one hour to present its case to the panel, and then has an additional 30 minutes for rebuttal. The player must attend the hearing, but is usually represented by his agent. A club executive or attorney usually represents the team.

The arbitration is a “high-low” proceeding, during which each side presents its case for why the player should be awarded the requested salary in the upcoming season. In deciding to award the higher or lower salary, the panel may consider the following criteria:

(1) the player’s contribution to the club in terms of performance and leadership;

(2) the club’s record and its attendance;

(3) any and all of the player’s “special accomplishments,” including All-Star game appearances, awards won, and postseason performance;

(4) the salaries of comparable players in the player’s service-time class and, for players with less than five years of service, the class one year ahead of him.

The parties may not refer to team finances, previous offers made during negotiations, comments from the press or salaries in other sports or occupations.

The panel, without opinion, awards the player a one-year, non-guaranteed contract at one salary or the other. If the player is cut within 16 days before the season begins, he is entitled only to 30 days’ termination pay. If the player is cut during spring training but after the 16th day before the season begins, he is entitled only to 45 days’ termination pay.

________________

So the last paragraph states that a team can cut a player who accepts arbitration and is given a 1 year deal and just pay them a prorated portion of their salary. If true then the Yanks wouldn't be liable for the full amount of Abreu's contract had he been offered arbitration, accepted and a ruling been handed down for a 1 year deal by the arbitor. The Yanks could then release him swallow a 30 day portion of his contract and move on. Does anyone know if this is 100% accurate?