Mets Offer Perez Revised Contract

Garland doesn't belong anywhere but the 5th spot in the rotation. He's terrible.

So in a offseason with Sabathia, Burnett, Lowe, and Sheets as FAs, we're going to end up with crappy ol' Perez again.

Way to go Omar. You are truly a moron...

no, they improved there bp and there sp was a strong point last year. At least they won't end up with wolf

Garland has the same lifetime ERA as Perez does only he has done it in the AL, I wonder who is crap....

Jon Garland is way better than Oliver Perez why is a mediocer guy like Perez making so much money?

Garland would do Perez job and more at a fraction of the cost.

I agree Garland is NOT trash!!!

^

Perez may suck, but he's miles better than Garland.

Garland doesn't strike anybody out, and gets hit all over the place. At least Perez has some games where he's dominant, Garland just has games where he gets lucky...

"15starts 4-2 90.2IP 3.97ERA 7HR 45BB 91K 1HBP"

Its tough to maintain such a high BB rate, the fact that it was an improvement over the first half is a good sign, but it says more about just how awful Perez's command was in the first half. It was still well below average in the second half.

The thing about Perez that makes him unique is that he's a case where you're actually paying for potential rather than track record. He's only 27, unusually young fora FA SP. There's certainly a possibility that Perez is just entering his best years. But its tough to pay for a product that has rarely performed as advertised in the past. The only time in his career he's been worth more than $10 million was 2004 (about $14 million according to fangraphs). And the only other time he was worth more than $6 million was 2007 (about $8 million).

By contrast, Ben Sheets has only been worth less than $10 million (again according to fangraphs) twice in his career, in 2002 and 2007. He's also twice been worth over $20 million (2004 and 2008). The problem is, Sheets seems more likely to reduce in value in the coming years if the injuries continue to pile on. Paying him $9 million per year is probably pretty safe, but he's also probably more likely to be worth next to nothing than Ollie is.

Ollie had a better ERA+ than Garland in each of the past two years. Plus Ollie misses bats and is left-handed; Garland pitches to contact and is right-handed. Garland is what he is and has no further upside; Ollie's upside is obvious-- he has filthy stuff.

Ollie has his flaws, but I'll take him over Jon Garland any day.

nrmax88, garland isn't terrible he is a good pitcher a 4th, 3rd starter don't forget he pitches in the AL !!

Danny, we now see why you are not called on to set the lineup. First, Manny is not coming to the Mets, enough already!
Second, why would you place Wright in the 4 spot? he is a 3 guy true and true, like Hernandez he is a guy who sees the ball well and is dangerous in any count. Church in the 2 hole depends on how he swings the bat. Given your roster it should read:
Reyes, Beltran, Wright, "Manny", Delgado, Church, Castillo/Cora, schneider.

But I again emphasize, MANNY WILL NOT BE A MET!

Why raise the offer on Perez? What other team is interested in paying this guy? The teams that can afford him will have to give up a 1st rounder and go long term with him.

Yes he is better than Garland but it's not like the Lowe situation where the Braves were in it. If Oliver signs somewhere else, then up the offer to Sheets. There's no reason to be aggressive in this sort of market. Unless, of course, Minaya is conjuring up something. Maybe both Sheets and Perez? He does have "total flexibility" on starters, or whatever that means.

Garland had a 5.94 ERA on the road, and a 5.99 ERA in the second half. He surrendered a .332/.375/.515 line on the road. Nrmax88 is right, Jon Garland sucks.

And let's all calm down, Mets fans. Jon Heyman is the number one Scott Boras tool out there. He probably either was fed a false tip from Boras' office or completely made this up.

"Wow, how completely inappropriate and unnecessary.

Why don't you go on Metsblog and bitch some more about how much you hate their website, you worthless tool."

You're right, it was inappropriate. Just an educated guess on my part. You are always so angry towards the Mets in every post, no matter what they do, so I just figured you had to be pissed off about something. Metsblog has actually been better lately, Matt has written some nice articles in the past week or so.

"And let's all calm down, Mets fans. Jon Heyman is the number one Scott Boras tool out there. He probably either was fed a false tip from Boras' office or completely made this up."

Agreed here, without a doubt. It is funny though, we have so many Met fans who complain constantly that Omar is "messing" around too much, urging him to just hurry up and get a deal done, and then when he makes a better offer, the same people are here saying... "why would you pay Ollie so much money? You are so stupid Omar! Wahhhhhhh Omar".

You really can't please everybody. So just sign Ollie, and please me. The naysayers will be on board in year two when something clicks with Ollie and age starts to set in with Derek Lowe. Oh yeah, and Ben Sheets pitches 75 innings next year with a major surgery. Things will calm down then.

"Jon Garland is a huge mistake. As JK47 points out, Jon Garland sucks. He's completely out of gas, as witnessed by his second half last year and his severe drop in K/9 rate. The man is very hittable, and the Phillies will feast off of him. It's really Ben Sheets or bust for the Mets at this point."

Again, we agree. Jon Garland, 46 fewers batters then Perez, still had a higher WHIP by 10 points. You can improve your control, you cannot improve marginal stuff that gets hit hard.

By the way hyro, 'tool' is soooooooo 2008. Perhaps a new insulting adjective should be created.

i agree that jon heyman has almost no credibiltiy, but ollie makes sense with the mets.. the fact that sheets is available is just a bargaining tool for omar not to overpay for perez's services

Leave it to Mets fans to think Jon Garland is better than Ollie Perez and to mix in the words "tool" and "penis". Good stuff kids.

Hey, vtadave, not all Met fans are like that. We're not as bad as Phillies fans, who taunt everyone else on their respective teams' posts, or Twins fans, who automatically hate you if you don't root for the Vikings.

Really, the best safe bet at this point might be Randy Wolf. He doesn't have Perez's upside but he's better than Garland, and he has some injury history but looks to be in better shape right now than Sheets. He looks like a nice value and a good bet to be a solid #3 starter. He wouldn't have been my choice going into the offseason, and it does look like he still prefers the West Coast, but he looks pretty appealing right now. Ditto all that for Andy Pettitte.

I hope the mets sign sheets and garland; w/t garland you get an innings eater exactly what the mets need with last years bullpen problems.. You met fans don't know WHAT you are talking about!! And we need to trade Castillo!!!

Perez > Garland, get real.

But, they both suck.

Sheets > Wolf > Perez > Garland

Heard this morning that the Mets pulled out of the Manny sweepstakes. Team should be better with bullpen they have now. Just need a starter.
Oliver Perez, and for me Jon Garland. Sheets if contract is right, but I do think they will have problems with injuries, that's why I go with Garland.

The only way we should sign Garland if we are making him the batting pratice picther. I think we should get sheets Then you have
1.Johan
2.Sheets
3.PEF
4.Maine
5.Garcia- Redding
what ever 1 loses the 5th spot will be the longman and then if sheets gets injruied you have Niese or the other 1 or if sheets let's down just go some 1 at the deadline becuase they say this year a lt more teams will be selling there players at the deadline

When did the Mets get Manny? I love the insertion of great players into peoples fantasy lineups.

"As for Delgado, even if his second half was ridiculous, in terms of future projection, you always prefer a guy improved in the second half. I'm not saying he can stretch his second half over a full season, at age 37 that's just flat out unlikely. But its more likely he approaches that then his paltry first half numbers."

Yes. I agree. The thing I find weird about Delgado is, people tend to say he won't repeat his 2008. But he doesn't have to. His second half was so ridiculous that it actually made people forget that for how good his second half was, his first half was equally bad. Just horrible. A more consistent performance is all that is needed to duplicate his 08 line in 09. And I agree, you would rather see Delgado torrid in the second half, rather then in the first and finishing the season slow. He looked like vintage Carlos Delgado in the second half. The guy hit some absolute mammoth home runs. Playing for a new contract, and finally healthy, having the whole winter to prepare for baseball instead of rehabbing, I expect a big year from Delgado.

I agree that a Tatis/Murphy platoon will be pretty good. I wonder if Ryan Church has problems hitting lefties, if at some point it will switch over from a Murphy/Tatis platoon to a Church/Tatis platoon. Murphy's hitting style and the approach he takes would lead one to believe he could be successful against a pitcher from either side.

"I agree that a Tatis/Murphy platoon will be pretty good."

You don't know dick about baseball nrmax88. You come on here and mock everybody and use childish insults about penis size, but you are an absolute clown. That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. Murphy is a nice player, but he's a singles or gap to gap hitter. He hit 2 HR and drove in 17 in 131 ABs. Tatis did not have a major league at bat for 4 seasons and had a nice little comeback last year. Ryan Church's career high numbers are 15HR and 70RBI, and he's very injury proned. You cannot win without corner outfield power production. Name me a playoff team in the last 10 years who had limited power production from both corner outfield spots and I will take your argument seriously. We need somebody who can generate some power from a corner outfield position. Sign Sheets and sign either Abreu or Adam Dunn to LF or RF. I'm telling you right now, we will not win next season with Murphy/Tatis in LF and Church in RF. I really hope that I am wrong, but I highly doubt it.

"Does anyone else see that Omar is not signing Sheets because he is not a Latino? He is an ace, there is no excuse to sign Ollie over Sheets"

Yeah, there is. It starts with an I, ends with a Y, and has 6 letters in it.

The Mets can obviously afford Ollie and they're the ONLY other suitor, so why not lock down Ollie. He's not Johan Santana or CC Sabathia or AJ Burnett but he IS a good pitcher. And frankly, an Ollie-type pitcher behind Johan and Pelfrey (who is actually good) is perfect for the Mets.

"Name me a playoff team in the last 10 years who had limited power production from both corner outfield spots and I will take your argument seriously."

Your 2006 Oakland Athletics. Made it to the ALCS.

Frank Thomas was the DH and never played a position, so we can discard him in these considerations since Mets don't have a DH. All AL teams have DH; all NL teams don't have a DH.

For about half the season, the A's only had one "power" bat between 1B AND the OF, who was Nick Swisher, who split time b/w 1B and OF. So, quintessentially, you could say that the A's had horrible power production (Jay Payton and Dan Johnson) from 2 corner OF spots. For the other half of the season, they had two power bats between the 4 positions, as Milton Bradley was healthy.

The Mets already have 2 power bats among 4 positions, in Delgado and Beltran. And Murphy/Tatis will WAY outperform Jay Payton or Dan Johnson.

I do think grabbing a guy who could platoon with someone in case Church struggles would be a good idea.

Ryan Church is as injury prone as every athlete in the world, Jose. He couldn't help running into Anderson, who's not a first baseman, nor could he help getting kneed in the head and then having it smashed into the ground by Yunel Escobar.

You all are stupid. We dont need another pitcher this is our pitching lineup.
All we need is batting. Jose castillo
Johan we dont church
pelfrey even wright
maine need beltran
redding batting. delgado
garcia. schnider
murphy

Hey, vtadave, not all Met fans are like that. We're not as bad as Phillies fans, who taunt everyone else on their respective teams' posts, or Twins fans, who automatically hate you if you don't root for the Vikings.

Posted by: metsobsessed | January 23, 2009 at 10:03 PM

oh please and the Mets never go onto the Phillies posts and say anything derogatory. Those in glass houses . . .

oh and those that expect Tatis to continue his production from last year are delusional. People now have tape that's actually in color on him (not so thinly veiled reference to how long its been since he's been relevent) so now they will pitch differently to him. His stats will go down but i expect Murphy's to go up a bit too.

And to those that STILL ask for Manny stop it already. He is NOT coming to Queens.

Sorry philWSchamps. You asked for it. hahahahahaha

On a non baseball-related note, I hate Mondays.

Paulio,

that's the one thing Mets and Phils fans can agree on, Monday's suck.

Manny would give you the division and quite possibly a spot in the World Series. That being said you won't end up with him, lol. The Mets management lately kind of likes to see you guys suffer. New and inventive ways of torture. Kind of like the Cubs in a not quite so cruel way.

I think Sheets makes sense for the Mets. They have the pieces in place (depth) with Niese, Garcia, and Redding being the ones to compete over the 5th spot.

Santana
Sheets
Pelfrey
Maine
Garcia/Niese/Redding (in that order)

Sheets gets hurt... Niese and Redding are there to fill the gaps.

I still think the Mets need another bullpen arm. That was their BIGGEST problem last season. They made (obviously) great improvements on the pen, but outside of the Putz and K-Rod... who do they have? I'm thinking Juan Cruz might be a good fit for them.

"Your 2006 Oakland Athletics. Made it to the ALCS. "

Hmm, actually, Nick Swisher had 300 at bats from the outfield positions (200 from 1B and a few from DH) and hit 35 HRs and 95RBIs. And Milton Bradley had 300 ABs and hit 14HRs and 52 RBIs (almost more production than Tatis and Murphy combined last year, by the way). Not to mention, it's difficult to compare AL to NL because technically Thomas would have played 1B in the NL and Swisher would have been in LF full time. So not quite, my friend. Try again.

I forgot a not. Murphy is NOT a power guy*.

Emphasis on the 2006 Mets.

"I already answered your question, idiot. The 2008 Rays, 2007 Indians, 2006 Padres, 2006 Cardinals, 2006 Mets, 2005 Cardinals, 2005 Padres, 2005 Braves, 2004 Cardinals, and 2004 Dodgers."

Ok, you f****** knucklehead, let's take a look at each team.

2008 Rays- They have a guy named Carl Crawford playing left field. Perhaps you have heard of him? Crawford has more talent in his pienke finger than Daniel Murphy, Fernando Tatis, or Ryan Church have in their whole bodies. Crawford, when not injured, will hit about 15 HR with 80 RBI. And Eric Hinske, who played RF, hit 20HR with 60 RBI. That's more than the Mets trio.

2007 Indians- I'll give you the '07 Indians, but they had 25HR and 114 RBI from their catcher position. When Brian Schnieder does that, let me know.

2006 Padres- The '06 Padres had Brian Giles playing RF, he hit 15HR and drove in 83. Those are better than Ryan Church's career highs. They also got knocked out in the 1st round of the playoffs.

2006 Cardinals- For the '06 Cards Juan Encarnacion hit 19 HR and drove in 79, Chris Duncan hit 22 HR and drove in 43, and Scott Spezieo hit 13 HR and drove in 52. I highly doubt Murphy, Tatis, and Church will combine to do that.

2006 Mets- The '06 Mets had power in LF but they dealt Xavier Nady. Cliff Floyd hit 11HR and drove in 44, which isn't alot but he was still a respected bat in that lineup. Pretty sure pitchers respected Cliff Floyd in 06 than Fernando Tatis today.

2005 Cardinals- Larry Walker played RF and hit 21 HR and drove in 52. Reggie Sanders in RF hit 21 HR and drove in 54. Try again.

2005 Padres- Ryan Klesko in LF hit 18 HR with 58 RBI and Brian Giles hit 15 HR with 83 RBI. Xavier Nady off the bench hit 13 HR and drove in 43. Not quite.

2005 Braves- Jeff Francoeur came up in the second half, if you remember, and hit the cover off of the baseball. He had 14 HR and 45 RBI in 257 ABs. Slightly more power-productive than 2 HR and 17 RBI in 131 ABs, right?

2004 Cards- Reggie Sanders hit 22 HR and 67 RBI in RF, with Larry Walker chipping in with 11 HR and 27 RBI. John Mabry hit 13HR and drove in 40 from LF. Again, better than Murphy, Tatis, and Church.

2004 Dodgers- I might give you this one too. Jayson Werth hit 16 HR with 47 RBI in LF and Juan Encarnacion hit 13 HR with 43 RBI in RF. But again, they got knocked out of the first round of the playoffs.

So, the 2006 Indians and the 2004 Dodgers (who got shuffled in the playoffs) I'll give you. However, the Indians got massive production from the catcher position, something we don't have. The point is, all of the idiot airheads who can't wait to watch Fernando Tatis in left and Ryan Church in right, I pity you. Good points, philsWSchamps. The Phils can have a Jayson Werth play right because Chase Utley mashes at 2B. The Mets don't have that.

Hey, you said name one playoff team in the last 10 years and I named 2 in the last 5. I bet I can find a lot more.

Spicy Banana was the nickname of my late childhood friend. Thanks for asking.

You said Church is injury prone. He had injuries last year, but those injuries were injuries that any other player could have gotten, not a result of poor health/conditioning.

Spicy Banana was the nickname of my late childhood friend. Thanks for asking.

I'm not even going to ask but you do realize how "BAD" that sounds, right?

Man, if 15-20 HRs constitutes as significant power production, why Abreu and Dunn? Why not Garret Anderson or Jim Edmonds? Hell, why not Griffey?

lol so maybe howard didnt have the worst season ever, but im just trying to make a point. compare the offensive threats (not production) of yanks to the phillies