Braves Rumors: Andruw Jones, Kawakami

And Mark Wohlers to close.

Pardon me if I don't wait with bated breath for the return of the mighty Andruw Jones.

Kawakami is nice, but again, its like the Vazquez deal in my mind: the acquisition can only reach its full potential if we go out and get that #1 (or potential #1) quality starter.

not Mark Wholers, we need John ROCKER!!!!!!!

Wohlers would have to be the 8th inning guy. You can't forget John "I Love New York" Rocker!!

And if they're bringing back Lemke, what about Rafael Belliard? Come on, if nothing else he was entertaining to watch!

Maybe Bob Horner and Ozzie Virgil could join in and we'd just have a reunion!

IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, until Jones proves that he can lose the weight and keep it off, and proves that he won't try to tinker with his stance in mid-season, it MIGHT- MIGHT be worth the risk. I still think that's a large task for him. I do not want to see that clumsy falling down swing of his in a Braves uniform again.

And why in the bloody hell is Frank Wren looking at Andruw Jones in the first place?? Someone mentioned Atlanta needs to sign O Cabrera and deal Escobar to SD in a Peavy deal. Why can't he be going for that? Abreu's still on the market. Hell, even Adam "I'll strike out three times for every homer I hit" Dunn is out there!! COME ON FRANK GET IT TOGETHER!!! Else we're looking at another year peering up the Marlin's asses.

soupdujour - I wish the team would sign Lowe, but I've resigned myself to the fact that its probably not going to happen. I have a feeling they're going to sign Kawakami, or if God forbid that falls through someone like Perez (meh) Byrd (...) or Garland (BLECH!) to add depth to the rotation and hope that Smoltz returns to form as the ace. It's risky, and probably a bit foolish, but I think it's the reality.

Baleen-

Ding! I 100% agree. This is being smart.

I strongly, STRONGLY prefer getting Vazquez and Kawakami over a Peavy trade.

Uhh, it would actually be less than what Peavy would cost, btw if Kawakami gets 3/24.

Peavy: 5/81MM (if option is guaranteed) or 4/59MM.

Vazquez: 2/23 MM

Kawakami: 3/24MM

23+24 = 47MM

So the Braves have the two pitchers for fewer YEARS (but that's a good thing when you're talking pitching) but much less money.

Although then my pipe dream fantasies of the Braves trading Escobar in a Peavy trade and the Padres flipping Escobar to my team for top pitching prospects end now. But all good things must end. :-)

All I'm saying is that if Frank Wren continues to look past the prime players WHEN HE HAS THE MONEY and back out of a deal for Peavy just because they wanted a young'un, and go for guys like Andruw, the Braves will be the laughing stock of the National League.

Thanks for cursing us again Perotto, every time "we are in the lead", we end up losing out on the guy.

And signing old players to short term contracts (especially Minor League contracts like Andruw would get) isn't a bad idea when the Braves are just holding on till the young guys on the farm are ready. All my fellow Braves fans need to chill out.

I agree, Rafael Belliard would be a great addition. I look forward to seeing him out there with Lemke this year. Belliard will get on base a lot, so we'll need another bat to compensate. What does everyone think about Charlie O'Brien? If we mix him in the line up with Francour and Andruw I'm confident we can break the ground ball double play record this year.

melonis - I was referring to per season $$ (I kinda worded it weird) but your observation about total money committed is a very good one.

Taking your point even further, there is a VERY small chance the Braves could add Lowe (3/$42MM), Kawakami (3/$24MM)AND Vazquez (2/$23MM) for under $10MM more it would've cost to pay Peavy or Burnett. I don't think they'll sign Lowe if they get Kawakami, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Brad426 - I completely agree with you. All of the "premier" guys on the market have their issues, but Burrell at 2/$16MM is an insanely good deal and would've been perfect fit in spite of the sketchy defense. I'm hoping the saturated market means Wren can get Dunn or Abreuw on a similar deal, but with Abreu still clinging to 3/$42MM I think he's probably out.

My best guess is the team trades for Dye, but I'd rather have Dunn at a similar salary and no loss of prospects

Wow, if most of you are Braves fans, then I'm a little embarrassed that I have to be associated with you guys. The idea that we should sign Cabrera for SS and trade for Peavy is just asinine. We take a big step back at SS and spend almost all of the money we have left in the budget, not to mention the other prospects we'd have to move to get him, just so we can have an "ace". Its really more of a lateral move than anything else, but it takes away a huge portion of the financial flexibility the Braves currently have.

As for signing Andruw, I don't see how anyone could question that move. None of our CF options are very good against LHP, and while Andruw was terrible last year, his numbers against LHP were somewhat close to respectable. Let him platoon with Anderson for at least a month or two, and if he clearly has nothing left, than we're out a couple hundred thousand. It seems like the perfect low risk' medium reward type move.

As for getting Kawakami, I'm all for it. While it would still leave us without a true "ace", we'd be very solid throughout the rotation, and if Smoltz can return healthy we may have the deepest rotation in the league. JJ, Vazquez, Smoltz, Kawakami, and Campillo, with Morton, Reyes, and Hanson all as possibilities if someone struggles (and Hanson hopefully ready to seriously contribute by midseason). Considering the start the Braves had to the offseason, I think that would be an amazing salvage job on the part of Wren and company.

Look guys, forget about Burrell. He took a discount from TB because he wanted to play there. I would have loved to have gotten him, but there was no way he was coming to Atlanta unless the Braves offered a significantly better deal.

Look guys, forget about Burrell. He took a discount from TB because he wanted to play there. I would have loved to have gotten him, but there was no way he was coming to Atlanta unless the Braves offered a significantly better deal.
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I just didn't know that a significantly better deal could be somewhere around 2 years for $10M per. I would have been ecstatic with that. I would have been alright with 2 years for $12M per, since I thought the sticking point with him would be that he wanted a 3-year deal.

Brad426,

12 million is a good deal more than Burrell is worth once defense is factored in. The past 3 seasons his value has been at 8.8, 7.8, and 12.6 million dollars respectively. He's already 32 and he has old player skills, so he is probably a greater risk to regress than the average 32 year old. I liked the idea of going after Burrell, but 2 years at 10 million per is the highest I'd go without thinking I was overpaying. Once it got to 12 million, I might do the deal if there was no one else left on the market, but that simply isn't the case. My main point is that while it sucks that the Braves couldn't get Burrell at 2 years and 16 million, that was never going to happen anyway. At best we wouldn't have had to overpay, and there was the possibility we may have had to overpay significantly. Given that, I'm not too upset that we didn't get him.

As for the Peavy and Cabrera talk, you're absolutely right. The only way the Braves should revisit this trade is with an entirely new batch of players, and this time adding Escobar to the list of unavailable players including Hanson and Heyward.
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Here is my issue with not doing the Peavy deal... we have this glut of talented young pitching prospects that we seem unwilling to move. But if we traded for Peavy there would be 1 less rotation spot available (barring injury, of course). If Towers is looking for pitching (as he said he was) then why not pony up Morton AND Reyes (where before it was an either/or deal in case you missed out on the coverage... I think it was only discussed once or twice on this site) and Locke. Escobar is off the table, but Kelly Johnson is tradeable since we have Prado. So would 2 back half of the rotation guys (Morton and Reyes), plus a solid, cheap 2B and a good pitching prospect get it done?

The rotation in 2010 would be Peavy, Hudson, JJ, Vasquez, and Hanson. Then in 2011 when Hudson and Vasquez are gone maybe Tehran or Medlen would be ready. Thoughts?

Nixa... so on Burrell, we agree that 2 years at $10M would have made us happy to have him (until he started booting balls in left, but his big right-handed bat in the middle of our line-up would be sweet)? Well $10M per year is a 25% pay raise from what he took. If someone offered me a 25% pay increase for doing the same job I think I would bolt.

Brad,

i dont think the Padres would take that package just because they dont really have a need for a 2B they need a SS.

nixa - "Wow, if most of you are Braves fans, then I'm a little embarrassed that I have to be associated with you guys."

Huh? Most of what you said was just reiterating what others had said in previous posts.

i dont think the Padres would take that package just because they dont really have a need for a 2B they need a SS.
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Isn't Edgar Gonzalez their 2B? I think Johnson would be an upgrade, although I don't know what Gonzalez makes. But if they didn't want Johnson then sweeten the deal with better prospects... Locke, Medlen, and Morton? I agree with making Hanson untouchable, but giving up 2 good prospects (remember, they are still just prospects) and a back end of the rotation guy for a legit #1 guy seems like a good deal. We have (by my count) 4 pretty good prospects in the minors to go along with Morton, Parr, and Reyes (who are already MLB ready as #5 starters and arguably have potential to be #3 guys). It wouldn't be mortgaging the future to give some of them up for a #1 guy that would be under team control for at least 4 years at less-than-market value.

I like that lineup e3braves. It would definitely get us the wild card. I would make one change. I think Kenny Lofton is past his prime. We should trade McCann for "Neon" Deion Sanders. We could also throw in Hanson to get Deion to wear all his bling and his shades even in night games.

That would free up Matt Diaz to become our pitching ace. That guy has a cannon!

nixa - "Wow, if most of you are Braves fans, then I'm a little embarrassed that I have to be associated with you guys."

Huh? Most of what you said was just reiterating what others had said in previous posts.

Posted by: paulyicecubes | January 07, 2009 at 01:44 PM
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Eh, "most" probably didn't capture what I really meant. It was "most" of the posters I don't really already know. The guys at the start like uwalfos, tolo316, bamabosoxfan, and Buzz Meat. These guys made a ton of the early posts in the thread and they're who it was directed at. I thought the context made that obvious, but if not I apologize.

Nixa... never argue with a guy named Pauly Ice Cubes.

You shouldn't be embarrassed of me nixa37. I am proud to be a braves fan. Do you know how excited I was when I got that Glavine baseball card of him playing hockey in his braves uniform? I wore my old Glavine t-shirt jersey to Shea while he was there and gladly received bark from New Yorkers. I just wish that since we are signing Andruw, we should give Sammy Sosa another shot too. They would look great in our outfield together.

Making a move just for the sake of making a move is never a good idea. This has just been a slow offseason in general, and the Braves are doing the smart thing by being patient and waiting for the deals that will inevitably be left when the dust settles. I guess its "boring" for Braves fans, but its the smart way to do business.

The more I think about the idea of an Anderson/Jones platoon in CF the more I like it. Not sure how the line-up would look against righties (there would be more speed, but not a lot of power).

I like both these moves for the Braves because it gives them flexiblity. Jones wouldn't cost hardly anything and as someone mentioned earlier you could platoon him with Anderson in center so Anderson doesn't have to spend the year in AAA. I believe he should lead off for the Braves when he plays. The Kawakami deal is good because it gives us more veteran depth in the rotation. He may be new to the majors but honestly who would you rather have from a Braves perspective of Kawakami, Garland, or Pettitte? I name these three cuz i've heard the Braves interested in those type B pitchers. I would take Kawakami. This doesn't mean they still can't go after Lowe. It's not like there's a lot of competition there anyway. I expect them to sit out and see were the Lowe drama goes. The Yankees did someting similar with Burnett and all it took for them was one offer and boom. After the Braves sign Jones I still want them to pursue a trade for LF, someone like Swisher or Ludwick would be my picks.

I agree with getting Lowe. I know a lot of people aren't crazy about him, but he is solid. Every pitcher is a risk and obviously the risk increases as they get older, but Lowe has been a workhorse.

With Lowe I like the idea of a 3 year/$39M deal with a vesting option for a 4th year at $17M with a $3M buy out. In other words, $14M per year. It beats the Mets offer and we not only get him, we keep him out of our division as an opponent. I still would want Kamakami and Smoltz. If Campillo has to go back to being the long-relief guy, I am okay with that.

After the Braves sign Jones I still want them to pursue a trade for LF, someone like Swisher or Ludwick would be my picks.
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I do like the idea of an outfield of Swisher, Jones/Anderson, Francoeur. Diaz and Blanco would both not have jobs, but I guess that would be okay. I'm just not sure we would be willing to give up what it would take to get Swisher when the Yankees have no real need to trade him.

"Seriously though, I still think the Braves should have signed Edgar Renteria to play 2nd base this year."

No, signing Edgar Renteria would've been a bad move. Renteria is no better than KJ with the glove. And, he's probably going to decline even more defensively. With the move of KJ to LF, you can't add a high-slugging LF. KJ is just an average bat in LF, although he's really good at 2B. So, you have a very, very marginal improvement to the offense and almost zero improvement defensively. Not worth the 2/18MM.

And, I don't like the idea of 2/18MM for what is quintessentially a reclamation project.

Kawakami's ideal for the Braves in my opinion.

Grab him and sign Dunn or Abreu or trading for Nady would be wonderful to me.

Although Kawakami,or even Lowe for that matter,aren't aces, the way our off-season has gone,maybe we should be "satisfied" with Kawakami or Lowe. Offer lowe 5yr/75 million.I know its a little high but we need pitchin!!!!

Then if for some reason, he doesnt sign, offer kawakami 3yr/27 million. Sign Abreu to a 2yr/16 million...

Let's go FW!!!!!!!!!!!!

"As for signing Andruw, I don't see how anyone could question that move. None of our CF options are very good against LHP, and while Andruw was terrible last year, his numbers against LHP were somewhat close to respectable."

How is a .178/.302/.329 line somewhat close to respectable? You could take any center fielder in the Braves farm system and get that production.

"As for signing Andruw, I don't see how anyone could question that move. None of our CF options are very good against LHP, and while Andruw was terrible last year, his numbers against LHP were somewhat close to respectable."

How is a .178/.302/.329 line somewhat close to respectable? You could take any center fielder in the Braves farm system and get that production.

Posted by: arg | January 07, 2009 at 07:55 PM
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This is why you check the stats before you go running your mouth. Josh Anderson's career ML line against LHP is .254/.299/.286, while Jordan Schafer posted a .196/.306/.299 against AA LHP. Gregor Blanco is better against LHP than Andruw, but he is also significantly worse defensively in CF. Unlike you, I take the time to research my opinion. That's why you see people on here commenting about how they respect my opinion. Maybe you should give it a try in the future.