Red Sox Agree To Terms With Baldelli, Smoltz

As a Braves fan and Yankees fan, I hate this move. I've loved Smoltz for years now, and it's going to be so hard to watch him pitch against the Yankees. I'm gonna be torn between who to pull for.

Now that said, as a Baseball fan, I think this move is a great one for the Red Sox. This may give them the best rotation in all of baseball..in years..if Beckett, Penny, and Smoltz can stay healthy this year, who is going to beat that team? I haven't seen Penny in a while, but I know if he's right, he's an All-Star caliber pitcher. And we all know what Beckett can do. And Smoltz (when healthy) is still one of the top 10 pitchers in the league.

I think it's fair to say the AL East is still the greatest division in baseball..

funny thing is all that money the yankees spent on free agents and they still are not better than red sox.

its never a problem to have extra options available so these are not bad moves....its just a shame that mid to low market teams like Atlanta can't afford to even chance a 5+ million dollar offer to a hometown hero like John Smoltz given the state of the economy. If he does nothing for the Sox its hardly a chink in the armor but the money is a luxury Atlanta has to be more careful with.

Good, now trade Buccholz to Texas.

Love it to death. Great signings both, and I was a big detractor of this offseason.

It's certainly fair to say the AL East is by far the best in baseball. With the Red Sox and Yankees and their payrolls in that division it will almost always be the best in baseball.

what is the red sox projected rotation?

Wow, I get to see a possible Smoltz return to Turner Field this year. As a Red Sox fan no less. This is going to be a great season after all. As for Baldelli. I think he will be covering mostly for Drew when he injures himself and giving Bay and Ellsbury some days off. Unless he completely upstages Ellsbury, in which case, replace away in my opinion.

"I agree with Storm's comments. What does this mean for Clay Bucholz? Is he now the 5th starter behind Matzazaka?"

My guess?

Smoltz isn't due to pitch until late May/early June, that leads me to figure the Sox will enter the season with a rotation of Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, Penny and Wakefield, with Buchholz and Bowden in AAA as insurance and Masterson in the pen, where he belongs.

From there, they'll try out a platoon of Bard and either Brown or Kottaras. If that doesn't work out, once Smoltz is available, Buchholz goes to Texas, either straight up for Salty or with parts for Teagarden.

is teagarden ready to be the full time catcher for the bosox if you guys acquire him though?

Theo seems to have a ton of faith in Teagarden. I've doubted him in the past, but he always seems to prove me wrong. So, I would say he is probably ready to be a full time catcher.

I'm not down on Ellsbury for the record, I'm just thinking of how Baldelli could possibly excel now that he has a treatable condition. Though, I'm sure he'll be in RF for a good part of the season. Knowing Drew and his amazing ability to injure himself.

what is the red sox projected rotation?

Posted by: gosox33 | January 08, 2009 at 11:54 AM

1. Beckett
2. Lester
3. Dice-K
4. Penny
5. Wakefield

Smoltz won't be ready until May or so. Clay will start the season in AAA, or will be traded before the season starts (same could probably be said for Bowden). Masterson will work out of the bullpen.

Sounds pretty money to me.

Not a Red Sox fan but it is hard to find fault with these signings. Great moves.

I wonder if the Sox are contemplating a 6 man rotation once Smoltz joins the team. If not, then Wake might be moved to the 'pen. I feel for him, but Wake will put whatever pride he has aside and do what is best for the team. Love the guy for that.

oh Christ here come the Sox fans, rejoicing, dancing in the street like they just hit the lottery and may the Yankee bashing begin again. Well that didn't take long...

Really now? I'm happy with a deal and it makes me parade? I wonder what the CC, Burnett, and Teixeira signings did for Yankee fans. Oh WAIT I remember, they rubbed it in everyone's faces with their typical arrogance.

Lets remember here people that the yankees didn't really improve they essentially replaced...mussina had more wins than cc last year in the AL not NL....Giambi is a top OBP guy who hits for power just like texiera...burnett replaces pettite but is not as durable as pettite nor as proven in a big market...why are they expected to rule? it seems like a slight/negligible improvement for a team that was in 3rd place last year

Does anyone remember when Baldelli came back half way through 2006 and showed significant power? I think he had 8 or 9 HR in September. It would be really impressive if he could recover fully and show some of that pop for the Sox.

it remains to be seen how the yanks new players will perform on a big stage...cc has shown he stumbles in the playoffs and burnett underachieves in his non-contract years...tex did well last year with LAA but lets not forget he and AROD did not get along in Texas...how will the chemistry be in the clubhouse with Jeter and Tex not buddies with AROD the yanks biggest problem for years has not been a lack of talent it has been a lack of chemistry due too far too many "superstars" butting heads and more desire to succeed individually not as a team...we'll see what happens but i'm not sold on their offseason..on paper it looks terrific but we all know that doesn't usually pan out in new york as far as recent history shows.

The Yankees did upgrade this year from 2008. Does anyone believe that Moose would have outpitched CC in 2009? Pettitte would have outpitched AJ? No they wouldn't have. And with a healthy Wang(huh...huh...wang) they have 3 top of the line starters and with a healthy Joba they have a good 4. However, when Joba gets shut down in the middle of the year to save on innings and the black hole of a #5 they will have problems. The signing of Smoltz means that when he is healthy to pitch the Sox can skip the occasional start by Beckett or Dice-K(who pitches way better with the extra day of rest) or Lester to keep them healthy for the post-season if they are lucky to make it. They have the amazing luxury of having 7 potential above-average starters for 5 spots, never a bad thing.

As for Baldelli I am happy we have a player capable of starting for many teams (health permitting) as our #4. He is a local boy who came here for undoubtedly less money and coming in knowing he won't be a starter but still accepted the deal.

The BoSox, Yankees and Rays are going to fight tooth and nail all year and I am looking forward to it!

Damn! My post was erased. I am re-writing it so here is the coles notes.

Yankees upgraded over last year without a doubt. With CC, AJ and Wang at the top and Joba and Hughes at the bottom if everyone is healthy that is very, very impressive. Nothing will change that. The Red Sox starting 5 is Beckett, Dice-K, Lester, Wakefield and Penny.

The place where the Yankees and Red Sox differ is that if one of the Red Sox pitchers goes down they have more depth. Even if they go down before Smoltz is ready to go they have Buchholz. Also, when they do have Smoltz and they have to put Wake in the 'pen they have someone capable of making a spot start to rest the main starters and keep them fresh for the end of the year. The Yankees don't have that and Joba is probably on a pitch count. The Sox, if they keep everyone, will have a rested team for crunch time.

Either way with the Rays, Yanks and Bosox the AL East will be amazing to watch!

skyharbor215: "Good, now trade Buccholz to Texas."

There are much better catchers out there for the right price. If you're going to give up multiple top prospects, get somebody who projects better than average.

Like Matt Wieters

Gosser you're right. All contracts should be incentive based.

Of course, if you want to look at it this way... Tex makes league minimum. He gets $45K for EVERY PLATE APPEARANCE (assuming 500 AB's/year over all eight years). That's sick!!

Now, let me say this. As a Sox fan and a Braves fan, I'm mixed. You hate to see a guy leave the only MLB team he's ever played for. But it comes time to move on, and apparently Smoltz wasn't in Atlanta's plans for 2009. On the other hand, I think it's an excellent pickup for Boston. It never hurts to have too many pitchers (am I right, 2008 Yankees?) I think he's low risk, high upside. Let's hope that he comes back strong.

Baldelli will get plenty of AB's. Has everyone forgotten that JD Drew still roams right field in Fenway? Baldelli won't have to worry about plate appearances.

Wakefield will probably move to the pen. He won't have a problem with it, because he is without a doubt the classiest player in baseball today. It has never been about him and only him. He's never signed mega-huge contracts. He has never turned down an opportunity to pitch either. He's been a starter, closer, and everything in between during his time in Boston. A true team player.

All in all, great double-signing by the Sox. Let's make 2009 our year!!

JobaNation: "and they are still not done making moves...to be continued"

True. Two of the top five FAs have not been bought by the Yankees ... yet.

"The Sox are doing exactly what has not worked for the Yankees the last few years and that it paying for over aged, injured players. Let's hope for you, that works better than it did for the Yank's.

So since the Tex think the Sox have spent about $15mm on 4 or 5 players that could all be a bust or not. I wouldn't count your chickens too quickly. "

I'd disagree with such knee-jerk analysis. I think the mistake the Yankees have made is paying lots of money to aging veterans and counting on them to be a huge part of their team ala Kevin Brown and Clemens part deux.

The Red Sox have signed two guys who are high risk / high reward. This strategy is not at all what the Yankees tried to do in the early 2000s because these players are luxuries, not necessities.If Penny AND Smoltz both don't throw an inning next year, the Sox still have a rotation of: Beckett, Lester, Dice-K, Wakefield, Buchholz / Masterson / Bowdon / whoever. The team is banking on the fact that Smoltz and Penny both contribute which, suddenly, gives them extraordinary depth at SP.

I believe the reason the Sox ultimately nabbed Smoltz / Penny over Sheets is because Sheets would have cost them a draft pick, something the Red Sox FO seems highly reluctant to give up unless absolutely necessary.

As for the final roster spot, I don't think Hinske will be back, but expect them to find someone of a similar ilk.

I don't think the Yankees are going to swing something like Yankee77 stated. I have a feeling they're driving a hard line with Andy Pettite -- he'd be a solid back-of-the-rotation guy.

Cashman, I think, is a bit stuck right now. Last season, he refused to trade "the kids" because he didn't want to seem them win Cy Young awards elsewhere. In doing so, he missed out on Santana and he was lucky that CC was available. Now that we know neither Hughes nor Kennedy were MLB ready last season, Cashman, I think, is hoping that slotting them in at the back of such a dominant rotation will allow Hughes to redeem himself.

"I suppose you do make valid points Beauster about the "luxuires" vs "Necessities" there is truth in that, as the Yanks made poor picks in an untimely way. I am just surprised to see the Sox vesting in Penny and Smoltz. I mean they have the pieces to bring a hell of a 3rd pitcher behind Beckett and Dice-K. For example Grienke which I just proposed to Yank's. There are some real talented # 3 or #4's out there and a few teams will be checking out early this season and trading away..."

There are a lot of talented guys out there, and I think you've nailed the Yankees biggest concern moving forward -- depth. I don't think, though, that the Royals are going to part with Grienke simply because he's so cheap, which is true of a lot of the high-quality talent that is out there.

If I'm the Yankees, I'd take a careful look at guys like Paul Byrd. League average, but durable, Byrd would be dirt cheap and would simply bolster the depth of the Yankees.

He's not a sexy pick at all, but the Yankees have the front-line talent they need. He doesn't require the Yankees to part with Melky or Nady (though they are interested in moving Nady anyway), which keeps their depth in OF very high.

and the reason the Yankees are being quiet is because they're monitoring the Manny situation. He's going to be your new DH and he scares me way more than Tex.

I'd really like to know what exactly were the "large discrepancies." Braves CEO Terry McGuirk should be embarrassed. The buck pretty much stops with him doesn't it. How did the Braves not nail anything out here, if just for Smoltz to finish his career as a Brave.

I've defended Braves front office, including Wren, decisions so far this offseason, but letting Smoltz is absolutely disgraceful.....unless Smoltz just screwed the Braves for $. If that's the case, good riddance. I guess I should get the whole story....

and the reason the Yankees are being quiet is because they're monitoring the Manny situation. He's going to be your new DH and he scares me way more than Tex.

Posted by: Gosser128 | January 08, 2009 at 02:15 PM

I agree on the Manny fear, but wouldn't it be great if/when Beckett buzzes a 97mph heater near Manny's head in Fenway and the fans erupt? Lol. I love baseball.

As a Braves fan, I will forever miss John Smoltz.

However, his constant complaining about how the front office does not appreciate him enough has always disappointed me. If he's going to sign elsewhere, just do it - and stop complaining. He's too good for that crap.

I have a few things that I need to say. Who is Tommy Hansen? Wow he throws good in the Arizona league. Who is in the Arizona league? Does Manny play there, Does A-Rod, Does David Wright etc.... The point I'm making is where is Jake Peavy? First ball Frankie boy dropped. Then wait just a second Furcal is coming back, awesome right? Wrong. Second ball Frankie boy dropped. Next here comes a report that Andruw is coming back. I loved Andruw but is that really gonna to solve the problems we have? Then last night Frankie boy burned down Turner Field. John Smoltz going to the Red Sox. Who does Frank Wren think he is. Remember fans this guy use to GM for the Orioles. What have they done in the last 100 years? This is one very unhappy braves fan right now. Frankie boy has really dropped the ball this offseason. Even if we get Lowe now, whats the point. Right now we are no better than the Nats, the same team that all of us used to make fun of. Thanks Frankie Wren for making my Atlanta Braves the laughing stock of baseball....

"I'd really like to know what exactly were the "large discrepancies.""

It's right there in the article, clear as day. Less than three million and 5.5 million MINIMUM is a pretty huge discrepancy. The Sox effectively double the Braves' offer.

midtown: "The Red Sox still have one more spot on the bench to be filled. Does it go to someone from AAA or do they pick up someone like Hinske?"

I think this will either be Bailey or Carter, whichever looks better in spring training.

yankeefan4life79: "What the hell are you red sox fans smoking anyways, the yankees may have replaced but not bettered last years club????"

Calm down, we're just screwin' with you. Everyone knows the Yankees have bought this year's championship. We're just having whatever fun is left over among the crumbs.

Those segments courtesy of David O'brien's blog. From someone else's interview, I believe. Also said he talked to Lowe about how good a rotation could be with him and Smoltz, and how that isn't going to happen now. Great. What a terrible move.

I've waited to comment because I'm a bit torn on how I feel exactly but this latest update is a bit disturbing.

"The Braves would have paid Smoltz incrementally based on his health up to a maximum of $5 million if he remained on the major league roster for 60 days, and the guarantee was for no more than $3 million. The offer also included another $5 million in performance bonuses and $2 million in additional incentives. So Smoltz could have earned up to $12 million by staying healthy and pitching extremely well."

So he actually could have made more with the Braves (12 mill) than the Red Sox assuming he is healthy. So either the Braves FO pissed him off, he wants a ring or he isn't healthy. Add to that, we were only guaranteeing 2 mill less than the Sox so the real kicker was Smoltz didn't think he would reach the incentives Wren built in.

I'm still not upset at Smoltz, he is a human being with a family and this could quite possibly be his last season so he has to do what he thinks is best. I wish he stayed but whatever. I'm becoming less and less upset with Wren because once again it's looking like perhaps this wasn't completely his fault but I still think he should have upped the offer to get it done. Smoltz is a great influence on this team, is a fan favorite and whether he could have pitched from June on or not we should have gotten this done. He has taken discounts before to stay with the Braves, now we have ownership which gave Wren the money to make some moves and we let him walk because he didn't take a discount again? He may be a rich man but there does come a point where you wonder how much you really mean to the people you are working for. I'm fairly loyal and will stick around for a while if I feel I'm not getting paid enough...heck I'll stick around a little bit if someone else is making more than me for less work but eventually it gets on your nerves and you have to make a decision that is best for YOU and your family. This seems like yet another instance where Wren easily could have landed the player but stuck his heels in the ground and wouldn't budge causing the player to sign elsewhere. I'm beginning to think he just can't negotiate because there seems to be a trend regardless of whether you feel the people we have missed out on were worth offering more for.

In the end, he is running out of options to make this team even a player in the division next let alone a contender. My biggest concern when we pulled the Vazquez deal was that we gave up Flowers but wont be able to bring anything else in to complement the team we had and Vazquez. If we don't improve the rotation and land an impact bat, while I thought the Vazquez deal had promise for ending up a steal, the deal only hurts us long term because I'd rather have the spects if we are packing it in and rebuilding afterall this year.

MattyRoss, thanks for posting those comments from Chipper. I agree pretty much with everything he said. I know a lot of people keep saying deal Chipper but even if we are rebuilding I'd rather keep him. I felt the same way with Smoltz, you just don't let guys go after 20 years this way. It's bad for them, the team, the image of the FO, the fans and the city. I'm not furious that they let Smoltz go necessarily but just the circumstances around it. This all could have been handled better and avoided; it's truly a sad time to be a Braves fan.

Bean ball wars suck. Total and utterly stupid. people forget what happens, ppl have died from this in the game and idiots like Nolan Ryan that got away with throwing the ball BEHIND a batter's head for 20+ years should have been then (and now) an auto suspension for multiple games.

"Penny needs to hope the rest fixes his shoulder, he rested for 2months this season and it didnt get better."

Think I read on this board (or another perhaps) that Penny was throwing back in the mid 90's (94-95mph) in September, so it would seem his arm is "well rested" and better now.

Carter and Bailey really don't bring anything to Boston with Baldelli onboard, sure Carter can play a semblance of 1B and the corner OF positions, but his defense is supposed to be, well terrible and doubt either will be breaking camp with the team from ST and either can be called up from AAA and arrive quick if Baldelli goes down.

If the Sox want that solid LH bat again, would prefer to see the still unsigned Sean Casey, whom is as good of a lefty from the bench as Sox fans have had for quite some time.

Did not necessarily read through all the posts, so it may have been mentioned:

1) The Braves most certainly could have brought back Smoltz. Considering he took 5M guaranteed from the Sox, one would think he would have taken less to stay in ATL. That is a shame even as a Met's fan.

2) Does this open up Theo to making a big splash in the trade market after the rumors of them going after a young star player. Bucholz has a lot of upside, and would the Red Sox think about trading Elsbury? A package starting with those two, plus two more could be enticing for a lot of teams. I know the chances of these players being moved is slim to known but wouldn't it be worth it to overwhelm them and try for.. Mauer, Hanley or a player along those lines? Just random thinking on my end, anyone's thoughts?

cardfan,

Don't judge unless you know what the incentives were. As an example, one of the incentives Schilling was offered last year was getting a first place CY award vote. The man needs to be realistic on incentives he might hit. Regardless, it was disrespectful for the team to not offer more than $3MM guaranteed to a guy who's devoted his life to the franchise.

johns: "Carter and Bailey really don't bring anything to Boston with Baldelli onboard"

Somebody has to be the backup at 1B. I'm OK with bringing back Casey. Or use Bailey if money is an issue.

I dont think Casey will be back, if I were the Sox have to think of power terms, Casey is a good guy, but if you use him to pinch hit, will not be the guy to turn game around with one swing. I think Sox use younger guys, especially Carter at this point. I really like him and hope they give him a chance.

I can see the Yankees making a trade with the Reds and then shipping one of the players off to the Royals in exchange for David DeJesus and Zack Grienke...

Yankees Get:
Homer Bailey SP
Drew Stubbs OF

Reds Get:
Xavier Nady OF

Then the Yankees turn around and offer the Royals a package invlolvng Zack Grienke and David DeJesus...

Yakees Get:
Zack Grienke SP
David DeJesusOF

Royals Get:
Drew Stubbs OF
Homer Bailey SP
Ian Kennedy SP
Nick Swisher 1B
Melky Cabrera OF

The Yankees get an Ace in the 5th spot and a proven CF who will hit for average and has a lot of pop

The Reds get the OF they need in Xavier Nady for very cheap considering who the Yankees gave up for him (Jose Tabata)

The Royals get a lot of high upside prospects like (Homer Bailey, Ian Kennedy, and Drew Stubbs) plus Nick Swisher as a veteran presence could allow them to move Jose Guillen and Melky Cabrera can be a 4th outfielder with a lot of upside. He could also platoon with Coco Crisp and take over when Crisp is a free agent next year.

I dont know how I feel about this. few things:

#1 The Sox have GREAT pitching and really didnt need to add another arm like Smoltz

#2 The man has never pitched outside of the NL so who knows how hes going to respond to moving to the toughest division on Baseball at age 42.

#3 5.5 million is a little more than you would want to give to an agging vet comming of sholder surgery. Its not enough to be overspending but at the same time its a signifigant amount if he ends up flopping.

Im going to have to think this one over quite a bit.

If that isn't enough then the Yankees could simply add one or two bullpen guys to the trade. Since the Royals lost Ramon Ramirez they will probably look for one more young reliever and even if they get two, depth never hurts. If i am the Yankees i offer Jose Albaladejo and Edwar Ramirez if that trade offer isnt enough.

Now that we know the parameters of the two deals, and how easy it would be a healthy Smoltz to meet the Braves' guarantees, it's pretty obvious.

Either a) Smoltz really doesn't think he's going to pitch much in 2009 and wanted the Sox's money

or b) He thinks the Braves have no chance of winning in 2009, unlike the Sox, who of course do.

c) some of both is possible too.

"Yankees Get:
Homer Bailey SP
Drew Stubbs OF

Reds Get:
Xavier Nady OF

Then the Yankees turn around and offer the Royals a package invlolvng Zack Grienke and David DeJesus...

Yakees Get:
Zack Grienke SP
David DeJesusOF

Royals Get:
Drew Stubbs OF
Homer Bailey SP
Ian Kennedy SP
Nick Swisher 1B
Melky Cabrera OF"

RollingNH09.... I really like the deal that you proposed. I think it makes sense for every club involved in the deal because it fills a need for each of the teams weakest areas. You said that if the deal didnt make sense to the Royals that the Yanks should considering trading a pair of their bullpen arms and i totally agree bc they are very deep in that area. Nice Proposal.

...dummy