Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice Elected To HOF

What about big Mac?

Rice doesn't deserve it.

Tim Raines and Bert Blyleven should be in.

What's dumber...5.2 percent of voters not voting for Henderson or that Rice got elected? Or that Raines got so little support? Or that Dawson continues to get so much support and Blyleven came up short? There's no stopping the BBRAA...

Rice isn't a HOF player in my opinion, was great for just to short a time. Raines got royally screwed. If there was no Rickey, Raines would have a strong case as baseballs greatest leadoff hitter.

How could Ricky Henderson not be unanimous?

I didn't realize this was mlballaroundfacts.com

Big Mac had 21.9% of the votes.

I think the BBRAA needs to start looking to the web and tv for voters, newspapers and magazines are a dying medium and its far past time to get some of the younger views into the club.

I also think they need to change the way the ballot is done, something like two years after retirement and then on it for only five years. If you aren't a HOFer after that I don't think you really belong. As Skip Baylsis often says its the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Very Good

7-time All Star spanning a decade, lead the league in homers 3 times... cracked 200 hits 4 times... that's huge

MVP, Rookie of the Year.... he deserves it

Hey, he also lead the league in GIDP 4 years straight... whatta guy

The way he just fell off quickly at the end is ALL that kept him from getting in on the first or second try.

If Jim Rice got in, then Andre Dawson, Dale Murphy and Harold Baines HAVE to be locks in the HOF.

"7-time All Star spanning a decade, lead the league in homers 3 times... cracked 200 hits 4 times... that's huge"

Haven't we moved beyond the point where we don't trust these kinds of numbers? All star voting is quite subjective. Homers are nice, but they need to be compared to a baseline, which we lack here. 200 hits is a counting stat and by itself not very meaningful. Let's move on before my head explodes...

Rice was a very good player for around 10 years, for half of those he was a .300/20-25/100 type bat that DHed around half the time.

If you can put Rice in then you can make a very strong case for Baines, Dawson, and Murphy as well.

I think the Hall's standards need to be higher, players should be getting in while other players from their era with stonger stats are on the outside looking in.

I will say this Rice had a far stronger case then Mattingly.

It's about time Rice got in. He dominated an entire decade. He has deserved it for years. The thing is, there were so many obvious first ballots prior to him. This time it was just Rickey. I'm so happy for Rice.

Ahhh you youngsters think that stats are everything... you've got to be able to see past numbers sometimes.

There's a clear line in the Rice argument-- people who watched him play vs those who didn't.

For those of us who did, we don't need to look at stats. He was a beast, end of story. and now, a HOFer.

anyone who didn't vote for rickey henderson should have their voting rights taken away and not be allowed to vote again. the same goes for the morons on the other end of the spectrum who give votes to jay bell and jesse orosco. do they actually even think these guys have a chance in hell of getting elected and if not are they voting for them just for the fun of it? what if everyone (or 75% of the voters) decided to do that? I think the hall voting system is in need of an overhaul, 75% is way to high anyway, if 51% of baseball sportswriters - guys who are supposed to know the sport think that a guy is a HOFer, then he should be.

Gotta love Rickey's 66 steals in his age-39 season. Wow!

Congrats Rice! Congrats Rickey!

Gotta love Rickey's 66 steals in his age-39 season. Wow!

Posted by: jrfukudome | January 12, 2009 at 01:27 PM

I know! Rickey Henderson, the most muscular legs in the history of baseball, lol

Some things that I think should be automatic HOF induction.

300 wins....later years 275 maybe 250 depending on other stats.

3000 hits

550 homers

To be considered in the top 10 all time at your position.

Playing Era is important as well, you can't really compare someone like Pee Wee Reese to Edgar Renteria for example, but it also shouldn't be the end all. Just saying that someone was the best offensive player for a 5 year period doesn't instantly mean that they were great.

I just can't consider Rice a top 20 LF all time even, and I do believe there are better 1B/LF/DH types that aren't in the hall and haven't gotten close. Rice is in the gray area. The area that usually consist of the best players that aren't in the hall of fame, but strong cases can be made for their election.

Being a Red Sock sure has it's benefits.

Rice-Erroneous.

If McGwire gets so little so support now, what does that say for the upcoming candidacy of Bonds? Clemens?

Oh great, 10 years of being pretty good gets you in the HOF now. Rice over Blyleven, who had 14 dominant years (albeit on bad teams), is an absolutely horific choice. This has 100% to do with the Boston bias in the media.

Rice had only 10 years over 120 OPS+, so whats stopping Andres Galarraga now???

How does Rickey not get 100%? The man is probably the greatest baseball player alive.

Tim-

I know this isnt your cup of tea, but how do you leave Maguire out of your post!!

and include Jay Bell?

can someone explain to me how/why/who anyone voted for Jay Bell?!?!

I am gonna look up his stats, this is outrageous.

Its amazing how low sox hating MFY Fans and others will go to piss on a good story . Tim only mentions as a good gesture to baseball fans that Henderson and Rice make the HOF even though he expects his readers to post about the rumors yet here comes the Bashing of Bostons Jim Rice! Barely a care for Rickey but criticism of a sox legend. I have no problem with people saying dawson or blyleven or morris deserve to get in but saying Rice isn't deserving shows the ignorance of so many here. Why not pick on Tony Perez whose #'s pale in comparison to Rice? Oh yeah, Perez was known as a Red, not a Red Sox! Get some class people!

Posted by: RED SOX DYNASTY! | January 12, 2009 at 01:39 PM

Sorry Sox Dynasty but I am a Red Sox fan and don't think Rice deserves to be in the HOF.

Rice didn't get better over the last few years, the ballot just got weaker.

The fact that Jim Rice is a Sox legend hardly qualifies him as a Hall of Fame player. A Hall of Fame player is a baseball legend not just a legend of one city.

The Red Sox have their own Hall of Fame filled with their own legends, that doesn't mean they all deserve to be in the HOF.

Russel,

The sheer ignorance of your post is alarming. Every year 25 players win a World Series. Do you believe that they all ought to be inducted? I mean they all had a role right?

Further, as mentioned would you say that Ted Williams, Yaz, etc. do not belong in the hall?

Congrats to Jim on gaining entrance to where he belongs.

ok,

So my feelings on Jay Bell are a little unfair due to me remembering him having an OPS+ under 93 for 6 of his last 9 seasons. FOOLS should not even consider this guy. avg. ops+ during those 9 seasons- 87

including a 131 and 115 in that span... 2 of his 3 best years

To put it simply:

Jim Rice did not change the game of baseball nor did he have an "extrodinary" career.

The proof Rice doesn't belong is the debate itself. With Henderson there is no question and thats the type of player that the HOF should be reserved for.

What is with the Rice hating? He was a Very good player, even if it was for an 8-10 year period. He was one of the most feared hitters of his generation, and a lot of guys that played with him and against him said he deserved to be in the Hall. I agree he is by no means a first ballot guy, and I am happy for him.

How about I lower myself to the level of you trolls here and very legitimately claim that Rickey Hendersons entire career was a product of taking PED'S as he was very muscular and powerful for a speed player who produced insane numbers at an advanced age when speed and power are supposed to decline? At least Rice was clean. But be happy people, one of the troika of Canseco, McGwire, and Henderson fooled the voters to get in. Kinda takes the shine off of Rickey's day doesn't it!

Posted by: RED SOX DYNASTY! | January 12, 2009 at 01:47 PM

You are an embarassment to real Red Sox fans.

As a Reds fan Tony Perez is not a HOF player. However I think that Concepicon is a boarderline one.

I also have no issues with writers giving a respect nod to some players they know aren't going to have enough to even stay on the ballot. Its not like they're are 10 sure HOF players on the ballot so its not taking away from anything.

BP did a neat series of articles 4 years ago on an objective hall of fame. Very interesting articles. It's a little bit dated now, but overall quite fascinating.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4309

I agree he is by no means a first ballot guy, and I am happy for him.

Posted by: MVPedroia | January 12, 2009 at 01:50 PM

MVPedroia,
Thats the point. If he is not a first ballot guy its not like he suddenly improved over time. The only thing that changed was the other names on the ballot he was up against.

The strength of the ballot should not be the determination of who belongs.

It should be where Rice ranks along side of those in the HOF and in my opinion (as a Red Sox fan) he doesn't rank high enough among the all time greats to deserve a place in the HOF.

Its not a matter of putting down Rice's career, he had a great career....however I feel this takes away a little from the accomplishments of the truly elite players to put Rice on the same level as them just because the ballot was weaker then it was 15 years ago.

What percentage of the writers are in New England?

I read Bagwell's name in the book Asterisk...

So no one except Boston fans can have an opinion on Rice's HoF candicacy? only Boston fans? if you don't think he should be in you are then automatically a Boston hater??
Nope, plain and simple was was great early and on a HoF trajectory but injuries, a sharp decline, as well as below average stats for half his career(Road stats)make him IN MY OPINION not Hall of Fame caliber and 14 times in a row the dopey BBWAA agreed, suddenly a campaigned based on his fearsomeness got him elected just barely and all that apparently makes him above reproach on baseball message boards in your opinion!??!?

I am so sick of them keeping Blyleven out. The guy had insane numbers and would have easily had 350 wins if he played on decent teams and is still the benchmark for throwing the curveball. It isn't the "Hall of Who I Played For." I would love to see a modern star pitcher put up a career 1.198 WHIP and 3.31 ERA while pitching till he is 41. How about 242 CGs and 60 SHOs? Nearly 3:1 K/BB despite being a breaking ball specialist?

"Agreed, Jim Rice isn't a HOFer. He was a fluke."

A fluke? Look, if you want to make the flawed argument that being the most dominant hitter of a decade isn't enough for the HOF, go right ahead, but don't say the guy was a "fluke." It is obvious you don't know what the word means if you are using it to describe Jim Rice.

"Clemens and Bonds are in a different class than McGwire even without the steroid debate. They'll be a much more interesting test of the integrity issue than McGwire has been."

All three of those guys deserve to be in. McGwire is perhaps the most prolific power hitter in history, was a top notch fielder and had astronomical OBPs. I know the petty HOF voters love that his low hit total gives them an argument, but I don't think anyone mention how much the guy walked. It is the same thing that has allowed people to piss on Dawson. The Player has a single flaw (Dawson OBP and McGwire AVG and hits) and they keep him out. Ridiculous.

As for Clemens and Bonds, if they are not in, the Hall is worthless. It already holds little worth now that Rose has satisfied all the original conditions for reinstatement and isn't in.

Rickey couldn't even spell PED's. There's a better chance he was doing PEZ by accident.

Speaking of Giambi....is he HOF material if he gets to 500 dingers?

Here's the biggest problem. People comparing one guys stats to another. Somewhere someone will say "Fred McGriff is the only player who's had 10 years of 30+ HR's not in the HOF". He was a great player but NOT a HOF player. Same can be said for Rice. If you start making arguements like "Oh you had to see him play" then that validates all the mediocre HOF that were voted in by the Veteran's Committee. If you use the arguement "He was the most dominant and feared hitter of his time" then how in the WORLD could you keep ALbert Belle out? Forget about his personality issues all together (Cobb, Anson, etc) or the corked bat (Spit ball pitchers, Phil Neikro). The guys stats, in his brief 10 year career, which was cut short because of his bad hip, were INSANE!!!

10 year= avg .295/.369 w/ 38 hrs and 123 rbi. I'd put him in (ala Puckett, Kiner, Koufax) before Rice. And I never read anywhere about him being a PED user.

Must be because Smith was on the Red Sox late in his career....

I'm actually gonna be at this induction. I'm looking forward to seeing ol' rickey's speech. As a twins fan I would've liked to see bert give a speech. He might have thrown out a few F bombs haha

so annoying listening to a player's team's fans backing players, can we hear from someone not affiliated with boston/new york on jim rice, these comments are full of spiteful garbage

YANKSFANSINCE78, are you wearing your Giambino jersey while you're posting cuz it seems like you're having a severe case of Roid Rage. Ouch!
________________________

I just call it how I see it dude. If you use the reports and testimony to punish the guilty then you should also exonerate those who were "accused" but never been linked to steroids, despite all the interviews, affidavits, research, etc used in the Mitchell report.
I was ALWAYS a HUGE fan of Palmeiro (still have a 50 ct block of 1987 Donruss rated rookie card which I now will start using as cup coasters) and was dissapointed to find out the guy was a user. I have ZERO attachments to Sosa, but let's be fair, other than the "Mi no habla' enlish" there's never been anything to PROOVE that he used.

PS- Do guys realize that if Rafael could've managed another 31 hrs he would've joined Mays and Aaron as the ONLY players to have 3,000 hits and 600 hrs? Do you know much of a return I would have on my NrMnt-Mt stack of rookie cards...jeesh. F*ckin' user.

For you youngsters who don’t know…here are a few of Rickey’s Highlights:

10 time MVP
AL MPV 1990
ALCS MVP in 1989
Gold Glove in 1981
3 time Silver Slugger Award (81,85,90)
2 World Series Rings
100 SB in first full MLB season (and he hit .303 that year)
Led League in Runs 5 times
Led League in Stolen Bases 12 times
Led League in Walks 4x
3,055 Career Hits

Single Season Records:
Stolen bases: 130 in 1982 (not a typo)

Career Records:
Stolen Bases: 1,406 (second best is 938)
Runs Scored 2,295
Led off Game with HR: 81

Highest Salary: $2,350,000

And as a Cubs fan, Dawson does not deserve a spot in the HOF. I still can't believe Raines has continued to get shorted. One of the best leadoff hitters in the history of the game and he can't even get more support than McGwire. Unreal.

oops, 10 time All star, not 10 time mvp

Two stat lines:

389 2B, 381 HR ... .295/.369/.564

373 2B, 382 HR ... .298/.352/.502

First is Belle, second is Rice. I guess you can give Rice credit for more games played and longevity, but Belle had better numbers across the board (outside of hits, which he trails by around 650) and played less games. Both peaked and were monsters for about three years. I don't see the difference really, and if Rice deserved to get in according to some of you, you should argue Belle at least needs consideration. I'm pretty sure all of you would not argue that.

How many championships did Jim Rice win for his team?

Posted by: Russell | January 12, 2009 at 01:23 PM

Wow what an ignorant statement that is

And Belle did it debuting in the majors @ 25 and retired @ 34. Rice began @ 22 and retired @ 36.

Belle hit 23 hrs and 103 in his last year!!