Sherman's Latest: Red Sox, Lowe, Manny

A lot of speculation by Sherman. Dice K and Ellsbury is to much for Beltran.

"WARNING SURE TO BE IGNORED BY FAR TOO MANY WHO WILL POST A COMMENT: This is not something I am actually reporting as a fact. IT IS NOT BEING DISCUSSED. I am merely throwing this out there to stimulate some debate and to get everyone to play GM for a while."

Yeah, dicek seems to be off limits - with the cash outlay and the japanese market, tazawa, etc, maybe you could get ellsbury and a bard/masterson type

And before anyone calls me an idiot for saying to trade Ortiz, who would you rather have Ortiz or any of the people listed in the blog.

I'm not sure I understand why Sherman would waste much of his post discussing a deal that he freely admits isn't going to happen and isn't even being discussed. A few years ago, I would have loved to have seen Beltran come to Boston, but he's hardly a #4 hitter at this point. The Sox need someone to replace Manny in the lineup. Ortiz isn't that guy anymore, even before the injuries started piling up for him. I do believe the Sox built their offseason around getting Teixeira and I expect to see them make a big move this offseason that no one is even discussing now.

cmac1973, I agree. I think the Red Sox understand that unless they do something big, they maybe on the outside looking in for the play-offs. The team is good enough in every other division but I could see both the Yankees and Rays being better in 09.

131 games with 43 RBI'S, Varitek last year, that is where the lack of runs production was.
Tito kept batting him 6th or 7th, while runs were on the bases.

I agree. Trade Ortiz if it makes sense long term AND short term only. No one should be untradeable when you have the offensive needs (and pitching arsenal) that the Sox have.

On a seperate topic....I abolutely love the idea of of Lance Berkman in a Sox uniform. He never crossed my mind until I read this BLOG. He can play 1st, DH, OF and he is one heck of a (switch) hitter....better switch hitter than that "Yankee who must not be named". He would add a lot of pop to that middle lineup if the Astros are willing to deal him. He isn't young but he could give you a couple few years until the Sox could fully reload talent.

Posted by: fenwaysouth | January 02, 2009 at 09:30 AM

Again, Ortiz is a 10-5 guy and must approve any deal.

As for trading for Berkman, I hope you're willing to deal Ellsbury and either Buchholz or Bowden and maybe someone else for him. I doubt the Astros are just going to hand him over simply because we as Sox fans want him here.

When was the last time Ortiz played 1st. base on a regular basis? So, you might as well count out the National League, yes?

boston's fan
take hanley off your wish list, it hopeless. The marlins wont traded unless they offered bucholz/masterson ellibury lowrie and bowden.

Gonzalez isn't the kind of guy you dump for payroll relief. That's just silly.

I think Sox fans are over-valuing Ellsbury just a bit. My sense is that the Sox F.O. would not at all be reluctant to deal him.

That is true, Tim... but any way you cut it, Ellsbury and Matsuzaka for Beltran is a gem any 12 year old on some message board would think is a "fair" deal.

Anyone who suggests Dice-K and Ellisbury for Beltran is a bad trade for the Red Sox clearly has no idea what they're talking about. Beltran's only 31 years old, he hits .275 and 30 HRs every year. He's also by far the best defensive CF in baseball.

i love how people talk about rumors when the person says that it unlikely, the mets willnt trade beltran, wright, and reyes
the marlins wont trade hanley(the RS want someone who can play good defensiv too)

I stopped reading after Sherman said trade Dice K. Pitching >>>>>>> Offense anyday.

Beltran is a great player, but I've watched Ellsbury make some plays that Beltran would never would have made. I know he is great outfielder too.
What people do not realize is last season was his 1st. full season. 0 errors cannot get much better than that.

Regardless of the absolute "absurdity" of Sherman's speculation (Jesus, he is really just putting this out there to prompt fun discussion. I'm not sure I understand the distaste for this), the interesting question for me to pursue (I think) is whether or not the Sox do indeed need to make a move to account for the Yanks' obvious improvement and the Rays' assumed continued growth. If the Rays do add a Giambi or Abreu to the mix, then I do wonder whether the Sox are 3rd placers or not. My feeling is that the Sox are strong enough to contend for a post-season spot the way they are, but maybe Theo and Company feel otherwise.

Wait, do Red Sox fans still think Ellsbury is not worth trading? And I doubt any Hanley trade talks would start without Lester/Anderson. Not some Buchholz/Masterson/Lowrie/Ellsbury garbage package.

You cant say it its NEVER going to happen. That is the entire point and he said the Mets execs said they wont trade the 3 stars but that doesnt mean the Red Sox couldnt offer a deal that totally blows the Mets away or the Marlins for that matter. I mean to be fair Beltran will fall short of replaceing Manny's Bat, but you do have Bay as well so all in all you would be okay and remember the Mets traded Kazmir for Zambrano and not the 1 on the Cubs. I know it was a diffrent GM but my point is n e thing can happen not to mention the fact that ANYONE could be had for the right price its just usually that price is way too high. So 2 be fair its say 99.5% chance that it wont happen but dont say never and remember it is the guys job to fill up room with interesting baseball articles even if it is just pure speculation.

Joba,

It would take a lot....Mainly young pitching, and the braves probably would not get into any long, drawnout discussions. McCann is a valuable piece whom the braves want to build around, and as I stated above, the fact that we have traded away two young catching prospects over the past two years shows the braves have every intention to keep McCann. I am not saying that Heap cannot be traded, but it is definately a situation where it would cost a lot more than McCann is actually worth.

are there people on here who actually believe McCann could be traded for?? now dont get me wrong here at all, if the sox threw together a package of lester+papelbon+lars anderson i would probably have to say yes to that.... but to suggest that he could be had for prospects is just absurd

Boston has entirely changed it's focus on drafting the last 20 years, even before the henry group took over. No longer are huge bruiser guys like Jim Rice, Otis Foster, Dave Koza taken in 1-2-3 rounds only because they can hit the ball a mile and with the exception of rice, do little else, but since the mid 80's they have been drafting athletic type positional players and in very rare circumstances even in lower rounds been using picks on crushers that rarely make it and now they need to go outside of the system again to acquire one like they did with both Ortiz and Ramirez.

Great points about McCann bravesbeast. Hes also signed for a while at a good price which is also worth a premium and another reason to think hes not going anywhere

Well you cant just package four or five or however many spare parts and think your going to get Hanley Ramirez or anyone even close to that caliber of player

Posted by: Joba | January 02, 2009 at 10:20 AM

Let me guess: Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson would get it done? :)

To get Hanley at this point in his contract would require a huge package. Here's a question. Who's older? Hanley or Ellsbury?

Hanley is an unbelievably valuable player. He's cost controlled until 2011, he plays a very valuable position (he's improving defensively to the point where he won't have to move) and he does everything great on offense. Put it this way. With age and contract taken into consideration, he's probably the most valuable trading piece in baseball at this moment. More valuable than Pujols. The Sox would have to give up a lot to get him.

Same thing for Mauer even, hes a TOP catcher and MIN has no reason to trade him right now

id be reluctant to give up prospects. how many prospects have the sox missed on? they have good scouting and talent evaluation. id hold onto the prospects.

rather adsurd to think the sox would trade a guy who the MVP in the AL for a guy who game in 9th in the MVP voting in the NL

Joba - i would hardly call bucholz, masterson, ellsbury, bard and anderson "spare parts". they all may not be proven but i think the marlins would bite on 4 of the 5 guys....lester wouldnt have to be in the deal

"rather adsurd to think the sox would trade a guy who the MVP in the AL for a guy who game in 9th in the MVP voting in the NL"

I'm not going to suggest the Sox should trade Pedroia for Hanley, but it's probably not a good idea to base players' trade values on their respective vote totals for league awards. Didn't Shannon Stewart once come in 3rd for the MVP?

In a vaccuum, Hanley is probably a more valuable trade piece than Pedroia. That doesn't mean the Sox should even consider trading him for Hanley because part of the point of the Sox going after a Hanley and the Marlins giving up is based on the teams' financial situations.

Hanley also never hit american league pitching or played oon a big market team

i dont doubt that he will be playing in florida...i dont see him moving. but to call them spare parts is grossly inaccurate

"Isnt Hanley signed with options through 2013 and rather cheaply till 2011?"

And plus isn't Florida supposed to open a new stadium in 2012? Meaning they probably won't have a $20 million payroll once that's open and should be able to fit the increased salary. (I would assume that's part of the reason his contract was backloaded like that)

"Isnt Hanley signed with options through 2013 and rather cheaply till 2011?

I dont understand why Fl would trade him unless BOS blew them away with a package centered around an absolute stud like John Lester"

I think this is a good point, which is why I don't think a trade like this will get done until later. The Marlins don't have much incentive unless they really really love the Sox's prospect package and think that it's better than any they could get when Hanley is closer to free agency, and unless they're already looking at their bottom line for the next few years and want to get even cheaper. But the Sox, who are in a more win-now situation, would also be crazy to include Lester in any deal because he's very valuable to their immediate goals.

my point was pedroia is better than hanram

Posted by: glen_quagmire | January 02, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Not even close, Hanley is A LOT better although Pedroia is probablly a better hitter for AVG....Speed and Power both go to Hanley...he could hit 40 jacks in that shoe box Pedroia plays half his games in

Yeah, Ellsbury had a slump, not many rookies dont hit a wall. Till they get older and make adjustments. Probably would have had 200 hits if he didn't hit a slump.
.280Avg.
155 hits
98 runs
50 SB'S
0 errors in the field.
Not a bad rookie season.

I think Cabrera makes the most sense here. The Tigers are said to be trying to cut payroll. An easy way to do that is trade Cabrera for some young prospects. Cabrera can play first base for the sox and when Anderson's time comes Papi's contract will be done and Cabrera can move to DH. Cabrera will give much needed pop to the sox lineup. And the Tigers barren farm system will be replenished.

It's interesting to note that early in the offseason, the Red Sox were rumored to be willing to part with Michael Bowden in exchange for Jarrod Saltalamacchia. Then, reports suggested that Bowden was off the table. Now, Buchholz is being dangled as trade bait. For what it's worth, it appears like the Sox have more faith in Bowden as a prospect.

Suggestion, instead of seeking a "superstar," what if the Sox simply upgrade at shortstop? Lowrie's a nice player, but he doesn't project to have more than 10-15 home run power. Lowrie + Buchholz for J.J. Hardy? Hardy's got 25-30 home run power and is arbitration eligible through 2010.

An alternative might an "all B swap" of Buchholz + Daniel Bard + Jason Bay for Ryan Braun. Braun can mash. But, he's going to be a Super-2, which means he'll be eligible for arbitration next offseason.

as a mets fan I hate to be honest about this but Hanley is better then Reyes and Reyes is better then Pedroia so that should show you how I came to my conclusion.

as a mets fan I hate to be honest about this but Hanley is better then Reyes and Reyes is better then Pedroia so that should show you how I came to my conclusion.

Posted by: Mr. T The MeTro MaN | January 02, 2009 at 11:06 AM

Yes. They are both better than Pedroia

"I think Cabrera makes the most sense here. The Tigers are said to be trying to cut payroll. An easy way to do that is trade Cabrera for some young prospects. Cabrera can play first base for the sox and when Anderson's time comes Papi's contract will be done and Cabrera can move to DH. Cabrera will give much needed pop to the sox lineup. And the Tigers barren farm system will be replenished."

Got to remember that the Tigers gave up the farm to get Cabrera in the first place, so although it's an interesting prospect to trade him due to their money situation I doubt they'd trade him unless they got back something like what they gave up.

pedroia hits for better avg. he had 213 hits last year, SO alone 50 times compared to hanrams 123. pedroia has a better glov, 6 errors to 22. hanram stole 35 SB to 20 for pedroia. hanram hit 32 hrs to pedroias 17.

so haram has more power and a few more stolen bases. plus he is unproven in the AL on a big market team.

pedroia> hanram

my point was pedroia is better than hanram

Posted by: glen_quagmire | January 02, 2009 at 10:49 AM

If the Sox had the chance to swap Pedroia for Hanley (I am not going to call him Han-Ram, although at least that makes me less queasy than the Man-Ram nickname), they would do it in a second. There's no way the Marlins would make that deal, especially with both signed to cheap, long-term deals. MVP votes mean nothing. Plus, trading Pedroia would mean Francona could start winning at cribbage again! :)

something of a different spin on things. I like Bowden and Ellsbury for Ichiro

or

Rasmus/B Anderson/another positional prospect for Bucholz and Yamaico Navarro and Reddick

if we sign Kotsay and then bring up Rasmus on June 1st this would work out.

The Brewers cant add that much salary to thier payroll so keep dreamin about braun unless you guys made up the diffrence on Bays contract since Braun makes league Min.

Posted by: Mr. T The MeTro MaN | January 02, 2009 at 11:08 AM

The Brewers need pitching though. I agree Braun would be a longshot - Better for the Brewers to keep Braun. He, Gamel and Escobar would make for a nice cheap 3-4-5 punch. Fielder's almost certainly available. But, the Red Sox probably aren't interested in a bad fielding first basemen who really should be a DH.

RS fans,
hanley is going nowhere
these year he making 5mil!!!!!!!!
that a bargain, he is a almost a 5 star player, he has speed, power, contact, strong arm, and improving defense (errors were mental laspes, not because he physically incapable of making that play)

anyone notice that ellisbury sitution is similiar to hanley sitution when he was in Boston
hanley was block by renteria
ellibury is blocked by crisp and they trying to get another CF

you guys had him, and the RS disvalue his talent and prefer renteria over hanley.

his contact is backload so the marlins can afford him, becuase the marlins payroll wil increase to league average when the staduim opens in 2012

even if the RS trade for hanley they re making the same mistake with giving up ellisbury

The Marlins don't need Jacoby, they have a great group of up and coming outfielders.

They will need 1-2 starting pitchers, 1-2 reflief pitchers and a replacement at shortstop.

Buchholz, Bard, Masterson, Lowrie and a mid level pitcher would be a fair trade.

Marlins have a 3 pitchers that most MLB teams would slot in at 3-5. Add in three potential starters from the Sox and they have a stong long term five man rotation getting paid peanuts.

Look at Hanley's contract, heavily backloaded he will be traded in the next 27 months.

"pedroia has had one "great" season under his belt in only 2 years playing- he is not going to repeat that in 09'."

han ram isnt going to have a repeat of last year in 09'. see how it works.

pedroia has had one "great" season under his belt in only 2 years playing- he is not going to repeat that in 09'.

Posted by: hawkeyes12990 | January 02, 2009 at 11:15 AM

I'm not disagreeing with what you say about the package the Marlins would ask for for Hanley, but Pedroia was the Rookie of the Year in 2007 and the MVP in 2008. What makes you think he's going to fall off in 2009?

theo,
the marlins have the biggest trading chip, they not going to settle, like with manny
marlins want manny, but didnt want to give up stanton, and pull off the deal.
no way lester would require a package around hanley. it the another way around

besides, lester is a huge risk, because of the cancer