Where's Rich Hill Headed?

Why would the Cardinals not be in on him? In there current situation they have an obvious need for another SP and they aren't rumored to be in on any of the remaining decent FA SP's. Even if Hill can't break camp in the rotation they could us him as a LHRP instead of Ring and Manning to go alongside newly acquired LHRP Miller. But a LH starter that has potential to be a middle of the rotation type of guy that can probably be had for cheap sounds like a great fit to me.

I wonder how Andy MacPhail feels about Rich Hill, considering that he was with the Cubs organization when Hill was drafted and he came up. Plus, the Orioles could use another reclamation project as a stopgap (or future prospect) to aid that horrible rotation at this point before Matusz, Arrieta, and Tillman possibly arrive.

And how about Texas as a possible landing spot?

the cards certainly do love a reclamation project like hill, but i don't think the cubs would trade him there, and i don't think he'd do well there. for his sake, he needs to get as far away from chicago as he can. i know dave duncan is a miracle worker, but cards fans know hill very well. his last start with the cubs was against the cards in st. louis, and he walked the ballpark in 2 1/3 innings or something silly like that. the homer he gave up to chris young on the first pitch of game 3 in the 2007 NLDS may have permanently scarred him. i was at that game and that kid (who's actually not much of a kid anymore) looked like a deer in the headlights. he hasn't been the same since. going to a place like st. louis, even with a guy like duncan to guide him, could be disastrous, both for them and him.

i think the Jays could be a team that could give him a great chance. they only really have 2 for sures right now in their rotation for 2009 in Halladay/Litsch. its not like the Jays are going to be doing any contending this season.

Peavy...what a joke. Look, he's not coming. Period.

And why don't the Cubs first see what Hill looks like in the Spring before considering moving him. Let him compete for the 5th starter job, it's not like we have anyone that great lined up for that role anyway. If he looks like crap, then trade him or release him.

The Braves should at least give the cubs a call. They need a lefty for the rotation and if Hill got it together in Spring Training he could be a great number 5.

Trade him for Peavy!!

(just kidding)

I could see Hill in a Marlins uniform. They don't really have a great pitching staff there and if Hill could get his head straight and get his confidence back, he could be the number 2 guy on that rotation. He could also be a long relief lefty out of the pen. The Marlins have one lefty in the pen now and that is former Cubs minor league pitcher of the year, Renyel Pinto. Hill could be a good fit there. I could see the Cubs getting 1 or 2 prospects for him.

I really am surprised no more teams are interested in him (maybe they are and we don't hear about it). The guy had great numbers and supporting numbers (especially Ks) to back it up. A team like San Diego, Baltimore would make a TON of sense. It's just impossible to judge his market value, what on earth do you ask for when you have basically given up on the guy and he has no value to your organization?

How about the Nationals. They really need pitching, they pitch in a pitching friendly park in a division full of pitching friendly parks, they have minimal starters and could probably trade one of their OF prospects to the Cubs to be their 4th OF, with Bradley having a good caddy won't be a bad thing at all.

Don't you think if the Mariners wanted him, they would have tried to land him in the Heilman trade?

"You think the O's might take Hill and an infielder (and maybe a minor league pitcher) for Roberts? Looks like the O's are dragging their feet in giving Roberts the 4-year deal he wants."

Considering how much they value Roberts, I really doubt that package gets it done. I would think the Orioles might even ask for Vitters in a Roberts deal now that all the premium prospects are gone and Shark can't be traded.

"Don't you think if the Mariners wanted him, they would have tried to land him in the Heilman trade?"

Good point -- but I doubt the Cubs would have moved Hill instead of Olsen. Perhaps though? I have a hard time judging what Hill's value is in a deal and whether it's actually higher than Olsen.

"How about the Nationals. They really need pitching, they pitch in a pitching friendly park in a division full of pitching friendly parks, they have minimal starters and could probably trade one of their OF prospects to the Cubs to be their 4th OF, with Bradley having a good caddy won't be a bad thing at all."

Cubs already have Fukudome, Bradley, Soriano, Gathright, Reed Johnson so I think the outfield is set. That being said, I think the Nationals is a perfect fit if the Cubs could find a match. They have quite a few above average arms in the system who aren't stellar but are solid, maybe the Cubs would feel safer going with a starter who can be optioned and has a little less upside with a lot less risk?

I can't see the Mariners in on Hill. If they were, wouldn't he have been included in the Heilman deal. My guess would be the Marlins, since they enjoy taking the Cubs young pitching and turning them around.

Bailey has options.

"How about the Tigers? Rich Hill went to the University of Michigan. Small market, pitcher's park, home cooking...and not exactly an impregnable rotation. He could compete with Dontrelle, Nate and Zach Miner for the 5th spot. Realistically he could start at Toledo and wait for the phone to ring if he pitched well."

NO!He can't start in Toledo. HE IS OUT OF OPTIONS.

Baltimore, Kansas City, Oakland, Texas, Seattle all make sense from the American League. It shouldn't take a lot to get Hill and I don't see why a team like the Royals or Orioles wouldn't take on him and see what he could become. It is obvious that he has a lot of potential, he just needs a change of scenery. If giving up an average AA player is all it takes and he turns out to be a solid #4 in any rotation, why not?

A friend told me he heard Hill was going to the Marlins for Hanley Ramirez straight up.

"A friend told me he heard Hill was going to the Marlins for Hanley Ramirez straight up."

No way. Hendry would never do that.

"A friend told me he heard Hill was going to the Marlins for Hanley Ramirez straight up."

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Rich Hill get traded to the Nationals last night."

Trivia Jockey wrote

"Why do the Cubs need to bring in Roberts?"

1) to get Soriano out of the leadoff spot

2) to have a legit, everyday leadoff hitter with speed and a good OBP (sorry guys, Fontenot ain't it)

3) adds some pop to the lineup, too

I agree with number 1. Soriano does need moved down in the lineup but where would you put him? Are you going to move D-lee down to 6th in the lineup? I think not.

As for number 3. Are you serious? Add some pop to the lineup. He had 18 homers in 2005 and just 31 in the last 3 years. Tons of pop there. A ball in the gap he gets a double and maybe a triple but Fontenot can do that also. His obp is .377 over the last 2 years. Theriot is .356 in the same time frame. Fontenot obp is .365 in the last 2 years and he hit 9 hr last year. The same amount that Roberts hit. The thing is that Fontenot did it in less than half of the number at bats. Come on bro. Get your stats straight before posting something.

There were talks about the Indians possibly trading for him last year. And although I would like to see him hit lead-off for us, at the same time I'd hate to give up lets say Barfield, Francisco and a pitching prospect for just a year or two of Roberts and nothing after that. He is not worth it unless you can lock him up for the next four years.

Whoops, just saw you mentioned waivers. My mistake. :)

Still doubt he would pass through waivers with a small contract and big upside though.

cubsfaninfla:

I said "some" pop, not "a ton" of pop. Fontenot has virtually no pop. It's a small side benefit, not the major benefit to getting Roberts. Fontenot may have a similar OBP, but the statistical sampling is smaller. I personally don't see Fontenot as an everyday player. I just don't. I'm a big Roberts fan, having watched him for a number of years via fantasy baseball.

ilulic:

Honestly, I don't know what it would take, because I don't know how serious the O's are about keeping him. If they aren't serious about a long-term contract, then they might be willing to take a smattering of Cubs talent. Who knows.

And yes, I absolutely think the Cubs are capable of making a trade for a guy they might only have for one year. They are clearly mortgaging the future for a win NOW. The fact they have considered trading Vitters several times is evidence of that.

Is it likely? Prob. not. But that doesn't mean I will stop wanting it.

Pumpkin Escobar

My point is that the Marlins staff is full of no names with some upside. Hill has a ton of talent when his mind is right. Hill could step right in there and be another weapon on that staff. Volstad and Nolasco are the only for sure starters on that roster. If Hill where to be added to that team, one of those other guys you mentioned would be in the pen or pitching somewhere else. Don't you want another Cubs prospect to help you out like Nolasco and Pinto are doing now?

I don't see any team besides the Red Sox and Yankees giving up talent for a guy that's only sticking around for one season. It just doesn't make sense. Unless you can make profit through a player, you don't take him on.

Trivia Jockey

I can only sample the last 2 years because Fontenot just got in the bigs 2 years ago. I am saying with him getting the chance to play everyday, he could have Roberts like numbers for millions less in salary. Fontenot might not still 40 or 50 bases but he could swipe 25 easily, hit just as many homeruns and get on base ahead of D-Lee, Ramariez, Bradley (if healthy) and Soto. It all depends on where Lou puts him in the lineup. This kid will be a great player in the years to come.

I would love to have Hill on the roster as the number 5 but it sems like the front office has given up on him and want to get something in return instead of getting nothing if he is picked up on waivers. I would have him in the pen over Neal Cotts.

JC-i see what you're getting at, but i don't see the cards doing it simply for that fact that he's now officially a cubs castoff. his first bad outing in a regular season game and those fans will tear him and management a new one. "we're now picking up the cubs' garbage leftovers?", things like that. the cubs wouldn't want to trade him to their biggest rival and see him flourish, which is certainly possible with a guy like duncan around, and the cards probably would rather not deal with the PR stuff. cards fans are already pretty restless, trading for a cubs castoff doesn't seem the best idea right now.

and for whoever brought up teahen before, i'm not sure we don't need a guy like that. versatile and LH, can back up both corners in the infield and the outfield. could be a good bench guy. swap for a couple guys that could maybe use a fresh start somewhere where they aren't exactly being counted on for big things?

100backeduptrucks

I understand your point but the Cards fans are already destroying Mo and the front office. I stay very civilized as I understand this is a business as well. With that said I doubt the Cards fanbase goes ballistic over a minor move that has low risk high reward potential. I am sure the Cards will pick up someone else either before ST or sometime during...I just see this as being a very cost effective and potentially smart move.

To others points on the Cubs not wanting to send him to the Cards...that might be the case...who knows.

cubsfaninfla:

I see what you're saying. I think we just have differing opinions on Fontenot's potential. I just don't see him having a career as an everyday leadoff hitter, year in and year out. I see him as a guy who can hit .270-.280, 10 HR, 50 RBI, 15 SBs. Valuable, sure, but not a star.

I like Rich Hill - I even had him on my fantasy team last year (needless to say, that didn't work out too well for me). I hope he can rebound and have a good season.

Wouldn't mind seeing him in an Astros uniform. If he doesn't work out in the rotation, they could put him in the bullpen. Make him a mop-up type guy. Wouldn't be too bad of an idea, seeing as how their former mop-up guy (B. Moehler) is now their 5th starter.

JC-you might be right, i might be blowing the cards fans reactions out of proportion, they already are tearing into the front office pretty good. i kind of thought the cubs pulled the plug on him a little early too, but he didn't turn it around in AAA, either. who knows how he would have turned out had they stuck with him a little longer. i've maintained since he was first demoted that he can still help someone. i originally thought that he could help you in a trade, but as his stock continued to drop, that became more and more unrealistic.
i disagree with you on why the cards should go after hill, though, and here's why: they don't need to go cheap. sabathia was a little unrealistic for them, but why weren't they even in on lowe, or burnett, or even garland? hell, wolf and looper are still out there, and the cards are nowhere to be found. just seems that they've been dumpster diving for years, got hot in 2006 (i'm really not trying to be negative or anything) and now management seems to be cutting corners. i've heard the theory that they're saving up to re-up with albert, and i suppose that's plausible, but it just seems that they can do so much better with their resources.

100backeduptrucks

You have to consider the Cards payroll is said to be at $100M(give or take a touch) to start the season...which to me is a payroll that should allow you to put a very competitive team on the field. With that said we have 2 arb eligible players left (Ankiel and Ludwick). Once those are settled we will be at about $92M. That leaves roughly $8M to play with this year. That would have put us out of the Burnett and Lowe range regardless. And I am happy we did not go after Garland that aggressively. But I can't understand why we are not even in on Wolf or Looper. If they can be had for the $5M range per year for either 1 or 2 year then I am not sure what we are waiting on. Outside of that the Pujols contract isn't an issue for the next few years but it is an issue after that. Who knows who else the Cards sign...but ownership semi-recently stated they have wiggle room and the payroll will be at $100M to start the season...if that is true they will sign someone and they should. If not then a trade that adds payroll could be in order...either way I see areas of concern!

JC-hadn't considered the cards' payroll was already hovering in the $100m range, so good point there. but i'm trying to think where is all that money going to? obviously albert's a big chunk, as is carpenter, but mulder's gone, so is izzy and i don't know if you guys are still paying rolen anything. like you said, ludwick and ankiel will get pretty good raises. but who is else is getting paid big time? glaus undoubtedly, off the top of my head i would guess Yadi's in the 3-5 mil range, but the entire pitching staff outside of carpenter seems to be built very much so on the cheap. i guess kennedy's getting some (undeserved) coin, but what's wainwright at? he can't be too expensive yet, is he? i guess i just don't see where all the money's going. and i don't mean to say that they won't compete; they're the cardinals, they always will, but i guess $100m should get you better than that. but hey, the cubs are up to around $140m, and i think they're slightly worse than last year.

Here's a link to the current Cardinals roster matrix over at vivaelbirdos

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/1/20/728595/tuesday-notes

In case you don't want to search here's the 2009 info you're looking for
Wainwright 2.6 mill
Yadi 3.3 mill
Kennedy 4 mill

And I think Ludwick and Ankiels are just estimates at 1.7 and 2.5 mill respectively

Sure, there are other guys who did not cut it. But the failures of Rich Hill and Felix Pie to develope on this current 'win now' Cub team has cost a lot in terms of potential that is lost and money spent to fix the holes. Maybe they do better elsewhere, maybe not.

For those who want to give Hill another shot with the Cubs, it won't happen. Lou has made his mind up. In case you did not notice, when Lou makes his mind up on a player, they are not around long.

i'm bored to tears, so i looked up the cards' contract situation as they relate to albert. it's pretty interesting. the following guys are guaranteed through 2011, which is albert's club option year (i would classify that as guaranteed to be picked up.): carpenter, lohse, yadi and wainwright. everyone else on the current roster is not locked up in any fashion, besides the younger arb. guys (rasmus comes to mind). all of the aforementioned (minus albert of course) have some kind of option for '12, except for lohse who's actually guaranteed thru '12. yadi and carp both have options for '12, and wainwright actually has two options, one for '12 and one for '13. oh, and i forgot to mention, all of these options are club options, not player, mutual, or vesting ones. i got all this info from cot's contracts. so potentially a lot of money is being removed coinciding with albert's contract expiring, meaning they will have lots of money to go toward him. who knows what he'll be worth at that point, but it seems that jocketty (who inked all these guys except lohse) probably had an eye on albert's status down the road. but if they're committed to staying around the $100m mark, them committing perhaps 30% to one player may be unrealistic. still, if there is one player worth doing it for, it's albert.

Wallace will hit, I don't think anyone doubts that. The question is, will he play 3rd, which would be wonderful from the Cards standpoint, or does he have to be a left fielder, in which case his value would decrease some. The Cards really value defense, but its hard to think they won't be making an exception in years to come for this guy.

Everyone can forget about him going to the Cards. It's not going to happen.

Ruck, The Giants have a rotation of Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Zito and Johnson with Lowry possibly back as the 6th. They do not have room to give Hill an audition as far as I can see.

In 2008 Hill lost a full mph of velocity on his fastball, stopped throwing his slider and change up, and focused almost entirely on the fastball and curve.

That didn't seem to work. Maybe he needs to start throwing more sliders and change ups.

This seems obvious to me. Hill is going to get traded to the Orioles. I'm only half joking- it's absurd for me to make such a definitive statement, but when you consider just how often these two teams hook up to trade...whether major or minor deals...it's ridiculous. Am I wrong? Hendry and McPhail seem to have a tin-can phone connection between their respective tree forts; BFF's calling each other throughout the night about this guy or that prospect. Forget about Roberts, this one will be separate; Hill for Brandon Tripp and Wilfrido Perez or some other O's prospect with little buzz, but a live arm. Isn't that how it always works?

Oh, and if that doesn't sound like enough to Cubs fans...well...it never does, does it? Hill is 29! Is there still some promise there? Sure. Otherwise, we wouldn't be talking about him. Whoever made the Ankiel comp, however, hit the nail on the head...and at 29, the time isn't there to patiently await some reversal of fortune. Hill will never get another chance in Chicago. He could turn out to be lightning in a bottle elsewhere. And he won't bring much of a return. It all adds up to a crappy situation for the Cubs, but that's the price of success...and of a coach who makes up his mind and won't change it. More often than not, Lou's gonna be right, so I wouldn't worry too much that you'll see Hill pitching in an All Star uniform any time soon.

Still, don't be shocked if he is competing with Troy Patton for one of the lefty slots in the Orioles' rotation next year.

Mile

Whats up? Hey, I'll take that deal. I wish Rich the best, but he isn't going to get over his "thing" in Chicago. Agreed on Hendry asking for a prospect with little buzz, but a live arm.

this is un-related to hill but i have to say it.

people are questioning hendry's moves.. which is cool and all but lets remember.
Gregg for Ceda, we won that trade if we just look at next year. that trade improved are next years team. so dont try saying the cubs are going to lose and get second in there division or something because of that. derosa had a career year at the age of 34, we now are able to let fontenot get a shot. Milton Bradley will help the cubs team, even if he gets injured, we are in the same hole as last year with fuku.johnson (loss of edmonds). We get rich Harden for a full year now as well.. we did lose wood but i mean can marmol/gregg not get the job done?

remember we won 97 games last year